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[#] Mon Jan 11 2021 10:07:50 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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No. The "All-in-One" format is a "retro design" though that hasn't been common. All the modern All-in-One machines put the brains in the LCD and still have a detachable keyboard.

The Pi400 is Retro the same way a modern Camero is retro - the design cues are retro. If you put a modern Amiga distro like AmigaPi on it, where it boots up into a Workbench Amiga and hides all the Linux - you've got a "modern classic Amiga," in a design aesthetic that reinforces the illusion.

At $100... opening it reminded me of the Timex Sinclair that used to sell at the grocery store for $100 that had 4k of RAM that I wanted so badly around 1980. Except, the Pi 400 has far better quality components and cost the absolute same in 2020 dollars as he Sinclair cost in 1980 dollars. Adjusted for the 1980s, the Pi 400 is a $20 computer.

with 4GB of RAM and a quad core processor and 16GB of storage default. But there is a legacy, a heritage, a history back to that machine that is clear... and cool.

 

Mon Jan 11 2021 07:53:03 EST from Nurb432

And i agree old/new is becoming a blur for 'using' but PI type hardware isn't retro..

Sun Jan 10 2021 20:40:34 EST from ParanoidDelusions

I suppose shrink wrap doesn't really mean anything though.

 



 



 



[#] Mon Jan 11 2021 10:09:50 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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I've got one. ;)

 

Mon Jan 11 2021 08:03:56 EST from zooer

Shrink wrap machine's cost less than $100, very cheap.



 



[#] Mon Jan 11 2021 10:23:26 EST from Nurb432

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Inspired by ill agree with you. but its still modern hardware. 

Since you used the car analogy ( i do often ) its like comparing a 4bbl carb to direct injection.. Sure, both are supplying fuel, but its hard to compare the two.

 

Back OT tho, the pinebooks are sort of like that 400 ( + screen ) as they use socketed RK somm modules. much as the PI uses the A-whatever 'compute module' ( A7? ). I forget who tried that first, a laptop with a user upgradable module. It didnt last long tho. might have been PCMCIA based, i really dont remember now.  Its too bad there is no standard connection for all these modules.  Then you could chose your 'box' then decide what CPU/GPU/Ram/etc you need for your particular project.  But i know, that is silly talk, 'universal hardware' cant lock you into a particular vendor.

Sort of like the friendlyarm modules i have. same form factor as NVIDIA jetson, but NOT the pin-out. Would be a great 'instant upgrade' path for a project. 

 

Mon Jan 11 2021 10:07:50 EST from ParanoidDelusions

No. The "All-in-One" format is a "retro design" though that hasn't been common. All the modern All-in-One machines put the brains in the LCD and still have a detachable keyboard.

The Pi400 is Retro the same way a modern Camero is retro - the design cues are retro. If you put a modern Amiga distro like AmigaPi on it, where it boots up into a Workbench Amiga and hides all the Linux - you've got a "modern classic Amiga," in a design aesthetic that reinforces the illusion.

At $100... opening it reminded me of the Timex Sinclair that used to sell at the grocery store for $100 that had 4k of RAM that I wanted so badly around 1980. Except, the Pi 400 has far better quality components and cost the absolute same in 2020 dollars as he Sinclair cost in 1980 dollars. Adjusted for the 1980s, the Pi 400 is a $20 computer.

with 4GB of RAM and a quad core processor and 16GB of storage default. But there is a legacy, a heritage, a history back to that machine that is clear... and cool.

 

Mon Jan 11 2021 07:53:03 EST from Nurb432

And i agree old/new is becoming a blur for 'using' but PI type hardware isn't retro..

Sun Jan 10 2021 20:40:34 EST from ParanoidDelusions

I suppose shrink wrap doesn't really mean anything though.

 



 



 



 

 

 



[#] Mon Jan 11 2021 12:51:40 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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How about this... 

It is taking a fuel injection kit and wrapping it up in the aesthetics of a 4 barrel carb so that your engine LOOKS classic while delivering better performance. Sometimes those "gimmick things" work. Other times, they're fail - like the sound cards that used fake "tubes" that were aimed at audiophiles but were really just a cheap attempt to cash in on "steam punk" aesthetics. 

It is about aesthetics. It is a retro-inspired aesthetic. It is the superficial finish of a theme park that aims to convince you you're in the Andes or the Himalayans or the Amazon Basin, even though you're in a drained swamp in the middle of Florida. 

That is why all the modern pony cars have lines that take aesthetics from the classic muscle of the 60s and 70s. They're typically not remotely like the original cars as far as engineering goes. They're using lighter metals, they've got crumple zones, they've got advanced electronics and ODBC-II and computer controlled timing and you can't really wrench them yourself any more than any other modern car. But they manage to look reminiscent enough of their inspiration to trigger that nostalgia response. 

So... the Pi 400 is kind of a homage to classic retro computing - and lends itself to modern platforms being used to relive classic retro computing experiences - without the hassles of - you know... meeting some dude with BO and a beard in a parking lot to complete a Craigslist sale for 30 year old computer equipment that might not work, and could possibly introduce vermin into your home. :) 

The market demand for things like this is good for me. 1: More casual interests are more likely to pick something like this up off Amazon - driving demand down for the genuine stuff and making the bearded BO guy with a stockpile of actual equipment more negotiable...

There is a residual effect where something like this proves there is still a viable commercial market - and that means more manufacturers jumping on the wagon trying to figure out ways to monetize the market, more developers and engineers being tasked to come up with and produce those ideas - more supply of NEW things that support OLD equipment. Instead of rebuilding 30 year old DB9 Atari joysticks, I can just buy brand new ones from Amazon now. 10 years ago, that wasn't true. 20 years ago there were a few DIY hackers making limited release carts that allowed you to plug in an SD card - and the interfaces were clunky and difficult. Now there are a number of consumer oriented small businesses making very professional versions of these kind of cartridges with slick, user friendly interfaces. Prices have come down too. 

In some cases that hurts me. My Cuttle Cart II which I paid $200 for got up to $800 once the run was sold out, no more were made, and there was no competition. Now - the Cuttle Cart is probably worthless, because there are newer, better solutions that do the same thing that you can buy online any day you want for $70. Overall, it is a fair trade though - and to a real collector - the CC2 still has an intrinsic value, due to its rarity and history in the Atari homebrew community. 

 


Mon Jan 11 2021 10:23:26 EST from Nurb432

Inspired by ill agree with you. but its still modern hardware. 

Since you used the car analogy ( i do often ) its like comparing a 4bbl carb to direct injection.. Sure, both are supplying fuel, but its hard to compare the two.

 

Back OT tho, the pinebooks are sort of like that 400 ( + screen ) as they use socketed RK somm modules. much as the PI uses the A-whatever 'compute module' ( A7? ). I forget who tried that first, a laptop with a user upgradable module. It didnt last long tho. might have been PCMCIA based, i really dont remember now.  Its too bad there is no standard connection for all these modules.  Then you could chose your 'box' then decide what CPU/GPU/Ram/etc you need for your particular project.  But i know, that is silly talk, 'universal hardware' cant lock you into a particular vendor.

Sort of like the friendlyarm modules i have. same form factor as NVIDIA jetson, but NOT the pin-out. Would be a great 'instant upgrade' path for a project. 

 

Mon Jan 11 2021 10:07:50 EST from ParanoidDelusions

No. The "All-in-One" format is a "retro design" though that hasn't been common. All the modern All-in-One machines put the brains in the LCD and still have a detachable keyboard.

The Pi400 is Retro the same way a modern Camero is retro - the design cues are retro. If you put a modern Amiga distro like AmigaPi on it, where it boots up into a Workbench Amiga and hides all the Linux - you've got a "modern classic Amiga," in a design aesthetic that reinforces the illusion.

At $100... opening it reminded me of the Timex Sinclair that used to sell at the grocery store for $100 that had 4k of RAM that I wanted so badly around 1980. Except, the Pi 400 has far better quality components and cost the absolute same in 2020 dollars as he Sinclair cost in 1980 dollars. Adjusted for the 1980s, the Pi 400 is a $20 computer.

with 4GB of RAM and a quad core processor and 16GB of storage default. But there is a legacy, a heritage, a history back to that machine that is clear... and cool.

 

Mon Jan 11 2021 07:53:03 EST from Nurb432

And i agree old/new is becoming a blur for 'using' but PI type hardware isn't retro..

Sun Jan 10 2021 20:40:34 EST from ParanoidDelusions

I suppose shrink wrap doesn't really mean anything though.

 



 



 



 

 

 



 



[#] Mon Jan 11 2021 13:49:31 EST from Nurb432

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LOL

 

When i was still collecting i had 2 story telling events: ( both a good 20 years ago now )

Guy on one of the usenet groups i was in decided to do a dump, sort of like i did later. " first one to call, gets it all" ( bunch of apple ][ stuff ). I was of course it. Was in another state, 3 hour drive.  Was 2/3 of the way there, thinking, WTF am i doing.. driving to some dudes house on my own out in the idle of Kentucky some where..  Of course i was armed.. but still.   Turned out well. Nice area, and ended up with a car load full stuff, real nice guy. Retired school teacher.

Another was on a YT "freecycle" list, some people had got some skids from a local school auction and was giving it all away. Local this time, just across the state. Turned out to be WAY in the boonies. drove up, chickens in yard, goat in the driveway i had to wait on, the works. ( not judging, i like farmer types. just setting the stage ).  I get there and out of the blue these 3 late teenage country girls show up with a look on their face " look, its a man "..  Really nice and friendly people.  Felt bad for them when they announced, 'we had these in the barn"... yep all totally ruined as it was an *active* barn and open to elements too.  "we have a couple of those tv screen things in this building over here" .  Girl opened the window, hopped in and waked across the acres of 'stuff' in the building, and handed me a couple of RBG monitors.  I still filled up the van with stuff making it look like more than it was, "well, i'm full, but i really appreciate this" and it totally made their day. Grinning from ear to ear.  Sort of expected them to have me in for dinner.

On the way home, swung by the dump and car wash.

Sad day really, several ][C+, some GS, even some laser clones.   All trashed. And hundreds more in the barn im sure. several skids worth. The 2 monitors they pulled out of the side building were ok. 

 

 

 

Mon Jan 11 2021 12:51:40 EST from ParanoidDelusions

So... the Pi 400 is kind of a homage to classic retro computing - and lends itself to modern platforms being used to relive classic retro computing experiences - without the hassles of - you know... meeting some dude with BO and a beard in a parking lot to complete a Craigslist sale for 30 year old computer equipment that might not work, and could possibly introduce vermin into your home. :)  

 

 



 



 



[#] Mon Jan 11 2021 19:01:33 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Dead stuff will still sell today - or at least, you'll find someone who fixes it. These guys repair multi-layer circuitboards with surface mounted components that were originally placed with a pic-n-pull placer, these days. There are YouTube tutorials on how to learn how to do it, and I swear, these guys - the way you talk, you can tell some of them don't actually know what they're doing, they're just following along with tutorials. Some of the guys who fix this stuff are experts, though.

 

Mon Jan 11 2021 13:49:31 EST from Nurb432


Sad day really, several ][C+, some GS, even some laser clones.   All trashed. And hundreds more in the barn im sure. several skids worth. The 2 monitors they pulled out of the side building were ok. 

 

 



[#] Tue Jan 12 2021 07:48:30 EST from Nurb432

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As a whole, we are talking about rusted off traces, cracked plastic ( water soaked freeze/thaw cycles ) and a lot were caked solid with acidic barn poo. They spent at least one winter out there, most likely several. And no clue if any of it was working before it was auctioned off anyway... The auction must have been a decade or 2 after they were retired.,

While i agree in concept that 'anything can be done in theory', even if they could be brought back to life, the value/cost ratio would have made it ludicrous.  its not like it was skids of Altair 8080's or something.  

 

Mon Jan 11 2021 19:01:33 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Dead stuff will still sell today - or at least, you'll find someone who fixes it. These guys repair multi-layer circuitboards with surface mounted components that were originally placed with a pic-n-pull placer, these days. There are YouTube tutorials on how to learn how to do it, and I swear, these guys - the way you talk, you can tell some of them don't actually know what they're doing, they're just following along with tutorials. Some of the guys who fix this stuff are experts, though.

 

Mon Jan 11 2021 13:49:31 EST from Nurb432


Sad day really, several ][C+, some GS, even some laser clones.   All trashed. And hundreds more in the barn im sure. several skids worth. The 2 monitors they pulled out of the side building were ok. 

 

 



 



[#] Tue Jan 12 2021 10:38:03 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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High end later Amiga systems have been going recently for as much as $3000.

A complete Commodore 64 system with a couple drives and display can bring in $400.

My Amiga systems will sell all day at $700.

Prices are insane. It is part of these kids getting into the hobby - but also, supply is very spare, now.

And I think a lot of the folks who restore the systems do it as a hobby - not really for a profit motive. Maybe a passion too... you should look at some of the "restored this C128 found in the skip," type videos. So... the challenge - I guess.

 

Tue Jan 12 2021 07:48:30 EST from Nurb432

 

While i agree in concept that 'anything can be done in theory', even if they could be brought back to life, the value/cost ratio would have made it ludicrous.  its not like it was skids of Altair 8080's or something.  

 

Mon Jan 11 2021 19:01:33 EST from ParanoidDelusions


 



 



[#] Tue Jan 12 2021 13:50:23 EST from Nurb432

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Right, but this stuff was no where near that. Sad to see them destroyed, but a dime a dozen. 

Tue Jan 12 2021 10:38:03 EST from ParanoidDelusions

High end later Amiga systems have been going recently for as much as $3000.

 


[#] Tue Jan 12 2021 15:26:43 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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I understand too - but seriously - people have gotten to the point where they'll buy busted out systems with cracked cases and missing keycaps, *just* for the plungers or parts that might be salvageable. 
I suppose it has become kind of like an automotive junkyard - where a thing that has been out and rusting in the elements for 40 years might still have value, just because it is a place to START on building a replacement part to even have a bad ORIGINAL part... 

The only system that hasn't had much interest and still goes bargain priced seems to be the TI 99 4/A... They're easy to come by. 

 

Tue Jan 12 2021 13:50:23 EST from Nurb432

Right, but this stuff was no where near that. Sad to see them destroyed, but a dime a dozen. 

 


[#] Tue Jan 12 2021 16:19:46 EST from Nurb432

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this was also 20 years ago, an apple ][ was not worth stripping and hoping the parts were ok. 

Today, might be a different case. Tomorrow, might not matter too. 

Tue Jan 12 2021 15:26:43 EST from ParanoidDelusions

I understand too - but seriously - people have gotten to the point where they'll buy busted out systems with cracked cases and missing keycaps, *just* for the plungers or parts that might be salvageable. 
I suppose it has become kind of like an automotive junkyard - where a thing that has been out and rusting in the elements for 40 years might still have value, just because it is a place to START on building a replacement part to even have a bad ORIGINAL part... 

The only system that hasn't had much interest and still goes bargain priced seems to be the TI 99 4/A... They're easy to come by. 

 

Tue Jan 12 2021 13:50:23 EST from Nurb432

Right, but this stuff was no where near that. Sad to see them destroyed, but a dime a dozen. 

 


 



[#] Tue Jan 12 2021 17:21:03 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Absolutely true. I am guilty of also tossing items that I now regret. It has made me afraid to toss anything. :) 

Worse thing I ever dumped was a nearly complete collection of 1st edition, red-stripe hotwheels in pretty good condition. Some of those go for tens of thousands of dollars now, and even in beat up condition, have a couple of zeros after their asking price. 

Some boyfriend of my sister who was a kid in the 60s gave them to me, and I in turn sold them to someone at a garage sale for $50 in 1987. 

FPGA is currently making a lot of retro hardware collectors dump their original hardware. FPGA is really, really good. 

 

Tue Jan 12 2021 16:19:46 EST from Nurb432

this was also 20 years ago, an apple ][ was not worth stripping and hoping the parts were ok. 

Today, might be a different case. Tomorrow, might not matter too. 

Tue Jan 12 2021 15:26:43 EST from ParanoidDelusions

 



[#] Tue Jan 12 2021 19:13:49 EST from Nurb432

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Coming from an EE background, i love FPGA. I tried in a way to emulate them ( before they existed ) using EPROMS and truth tables. I was doing a lot of bread boarding, and thinking, why am i doing this the hard way? its all predicable logic, i can do that with a look up table.. hey, an EProm does that..*ding* the light came on. Sure may take more than one to get the 'width' but i build the board once. .change it as i need on the fly. Perhaps not as fast, but fast enough.

 

An FPGA i can get for under 10 bucks now that is basically throw away, id have killed for back in the 80s..



[#] Tue Jan 12 2021 20:01:25 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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I'm not really an EE background - but as soon as my friend described, "It is called a Field Programmable Gate Array, it recreates the circuit logic at the hardware level," I knew it was probably going to be good. I understand that is basically what emulation is trying to do in a virtual machine abstraction layer - but you know how I feel about bare metal. ;) 

The more I've learned about it - the more it makes sense - for example, it is creating all the discreet subsystems and running them in parallel, where emulation uses brute force to run them sequentially so fast you shouldn't notice. Either can achieve cycle accuracy, theoretically - but there will always be inherent bottlenecks with emulation.

Tue Jan 12 2021 19:13:49 EST from Nurb432

Coming from an EE background, i love FPGA. I tried in a way to emulate them ( before they existed ) using EPROMS and truth tables. I was doing a lot of bread boarding, and thinking...



[#] Thu Jan 14 2021 09:58:57 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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Heh.  Reminds me of a gift I received some number of years ago, an immersion blender that was purchased at Target.  When I opened it up, what came out was someone's old broken appliance that had been put into the box and resealed.  The person who gave me the gift was horrified, and then had to go to the store and explain that this really happened.  (Fortunately the store accepted the story.)



[#] Thu Jan 14 2021 10:39:21 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Con artists are always running cons. 

Thu Jan 14 2021 09:58:57 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Heh.  Reminds me of a gift I received some number of years ago, an immersion blender that was purchased at Target.  When I opened it up, what came out was someone's old broken appliance that had been put into the box and resealed.  The person who gave me the gift was horrified, and then had to go to the store and explain that this really happened.  (Fortunately the store accepted the story.)



 



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