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[#] Sun Mar 14 2021 13:15:34 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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I don't care what MIGHT have happened in some alternate timeline
where the Nazis won and CP/M and *nix became the mainstream user
operating systems for business. It didn't happen. So, Microsoft made
the contribution to society. 

We aren't living in the Garden of Eden, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be a fan of Satan.

QED

[#] Sun Mar 14 2021 13:18:07 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Has been in my experience.  Admittedly i stopped managing it a
decade + ago, but i cant imagine its much better than it was.   I
know we always have issues at the office. ( more so now we are in
cloud, and had to hire more people to manage it..  which seemed
counter intuitive  )


Exchange 5.5 was a piece of garbage that corrupted its database if you even breathed on it. Or even if you didn't.

Exchange 2000 and on became so byzantine that it required an army of MCSE's to manage it. They probably kept it that way to drive their certification racket.

Now they've basically just decided that it's such an albatross that no one but them can run it. And you get to pay them forever for the privilege of being abused by them.

I could write a better email and collaboration system in my spare time.

Oh wait ... I DID.

[#] Sun Mar 14 2021 15:43:57 EDT from Nurb432

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:)

Sun Mar 14 2021 13:18:07 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar
Oh wait ... I DID.

 



[#] Mon Mar 15 2021 16:34:37 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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...and just like that, Microsoft 365 has a spectactular outage. Hosted
Exchange doesn't work, Teams doesn't work, login doesn't work ... anyone
who depends on this stuff is in bad shape today.

Say no to SaaS ! :)

[#] Mon Mar 15 2021 19:25:02 EDT from Nurb432

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Friend of mine sent me a text a little earlier: "azure down"

Email worked for me, so perhaps not 100% outage. 

Mon Mar 15 2021 16:34:37 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

...and just like that, Microsoft 365 has a spectactular outage. Hosted
Exchange doesn't work, Teams doesn't work, login doesn't work ... anyone
who depends on this stuff is in bad shape today.

Say no to SaaS ! :)

 



[#] Mon Mar 15 2021 19:26:10 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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I agree with this. 

I got very competent in Exchange 5.5 and later, 2000. 

They're difficult to administer initially. Once you get good at it... I had no fear of Exchange by the time I was done with it. 

 

Mon Mar 15 2021 16:34:37 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

...and just like that, Microsoft 365 has a spectactular outage. Hosted
Exchange doesn't work, Teams doesn't work, login doesn't work ... anyone
who depends on this stuff is in bad shape today.

Say no to SaaS ! :)

 



[#] Mon Mar 15 2021 19:35:47 EDT from Nurb432

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For me it wasn't fear, it was dread. I was quite happy when i could jettison that extra responsibility.

That was when we were smaller, and pre-cloud. Now we have some 30000 employees, with a 20% monthly turnover.   

Mon Mar 15 2021 19:26:10 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

I agree with this. 

I got very competent in Exchange 5.5 and later, 2000. 

They're difficult to administer initially. Once you get good at it... I had no fear of Exchange by the time I was done with it. 

 

 



[#] Mon Mar 15 2021 23:13:10 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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One thing Exchange did was scale very well. Not Exchange 5.5, but 2000.

[#] Tue Mar 16 2021 14:25:45 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Yes, it was good at crashing whether you had 30 or 30,000 users on it.

[#] Wed Mar 17 2021 14:02:11 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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Sounds like OE. I think my Exchange environment never had a crash the entire 6 years I managed it - and my idiot executive staff used their mailboxes and personal file servers storing gigabytes of files. They thought it was Gmail.  

 But - I threw a relatively lot of resources at it for having a max of about 280 users. 

I also taught myself how to restore a backup and bring it online on a test domain. If I had a complaint about Exchange - it was that it took black magic to get this to work - and it should have been far easier than it was to do. That jet database and the way it was linked and integrated into the AD domain controllers made it a real chore to restore an offline copy for testing or recovery. Most people at the time thought it was impossible. It was just very, very difficult. 

 




Tue Mar 16 2021 14:25:45 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar
Yes, it was good at crashing whether you had 30 or 30,000 users on it.

 



[#] Wed Mar 17 2021 14:57:58 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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This sounds like "fake good software" reported on CNN.

[#] Thu Mar 18 2021 11:50:56 EDT from Nurb432

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The cloud.

 



[#] Mon Mar 29 2021 18:39:00 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Netcraft confirms it: Windows is dying.

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Remember the old days, when we used to look at the Netcraft web server survey every month, to see how well Open Source software was faring on the public Internet when compared to its closed source competitors?

https://news.netcraft.com/archives/2021/03/29/march-2021-web-server-survey.html

I've never even heard of OpenResty or LiteSpeed, but they're making gains, and OpenResty is about equal to Windows/IIS with less than half a percent difference between them.

nginx has emerged as the global favorite, surpassing Apache a few years ago.  All told, Microsoft is now a mere also-ran on the visible Web.  It's becoming clearer than ever that Windows Server is rapidly becoming a dinosaur.  No one wants it anymore.  No one is building out new application infrastructures on Windows Server.  I'm seeing the same thing out in the field - the only reason to deploy it is to run Microsoft's own server software -- which is transitioning to SaaS anyway.

We continue to move towards a world where Windows is only relevant on the desktop, and even there, it's not nearly as much of a "requirement" as it once was.

Oh, and remember when we had a discussion right here on this BBS about how ridiculous it was that Windows NT Server required a GUI on a server OS?  Of course you don't; it was 1993 and none of the people who were here then are here now (except me).  So ... we were having a discussion about the new Windows NT Server and how ridiculous it was that you had to consume a good chunk of your system resources running a GUI on the console because that was the only way to configure it.   So apparently they're now unveiling something called "Windows Admin Center" which is a state-of-the-1990s breakthrough that allows Windows Server to be configured using a web browser!!!!!!1   It seems they've finally figured out that no one really wants to run Server Core by installing RSAT on some other Windows machine.

"Those who do not understand Unix are doomed to reinvent it ... poorly."  -- Harry Spencer, 1987



[#] Mon Mar 29 2021 19:49:41 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: Netcraft confirms it: Windows is dying.

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Yeah. There has been a huge market shift in datacenter design driven by virtualization, blade servers, and hosted solutions. That has been going on for a while now. Microsoft actually lost momentum after W2k with IIS. It became far more complex and difficult to manage, and had reliability issues. W2k7, W2k12 - their attempts to integrate with Active Directory and GPO, their web programming initiatives like SOAP... They were all tremendous failures. 

This doesn't give the whole picture - though. The web is kind of an outlier for MOST corporations, actually. It is great for consumer presence and for support, marketing... and web based apps are certainly popular. 

But a significant number of cloud based servers are hosting Windows Server and some windows specific corporate software on it. They're Vmware and Citrix systems running published apps that are Windows based. 

Microsoft and Intel experienced significant critical inflection points over the last decade or so - and their leadership did not do a great job of adjusting but instead scrambled and spun their wheels. The revolution of small personal devices running on lightweight OS platforms was perceived as a paradigm shift by both companies - and yet I think we've come out on the other side and those solutions - Android, iOS and ChromeOS in particular, have lost a lot of their initial luster. They're fun for content consumption - and content consumption has exploded as *dumber people* have found it easier to get on the Internet. That probably has driven a lot of these numbers too. The market has grown exponentially since ~2010 - but the average user profile has become more of a net consumer than a net contributor. Most people hitting a Litespeed or Apache server are doing it from their phone while sitting on the can taking a dump. That is your average web visit, in 2021. And there are WAAAAAY more of them than there ever were of us. But, with all that said, those appliance type devices that have opened up the market to your grandmother and your mechanic - suck for creating content. Even the iPad - as much as Apple would like to dump OS X and just make everything iOS on ARM. 

I saw some financial reports recently and Microsoft shares are doing *just fine* - because although traditional segments of Microsoft that have always been strong performers have fallen off a cliff, their overall strategy has been *incredibly* profitable. 

Microsoft has always had a strategy of sinking LOTS of their profit into unprofitable segments of their business until they figure out how to get it right. They have very few "Zunes," and lots of "Xboxes" - and a lot of money to wait it out until something breaks and they have an opportunity to step in. 

At any rate - IIS hasn't seemed to be their priority since around W2K. When Active Directory and GPO along with MS-SQL and Exchange became their priority, they really stopped caring as much about IIS. I think IIS 5.0 was the beginning of them moving away from a focus on web servers. Right now - to be honest - they seem to be strongly focused on consumer oriented retail channel competition. Prior to Covid - every time I went to the mall the Microsoft Store was as jumping as the Apple store, sometimes more active. I don't think they really care where in technology their profits are coming from, as long as they're still a dominant fortune 500 in Technology. 



 

Mon Mar 29 2021 18:39:00 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Netcraft confirms it: Windows is dying.

Remember the old days, when we used to look at the Netcraft web server survey every month, to see how well Open Source software was faring on the public Internet when compared to its closed source competitors?

https://news.netcraft.com/archives/2021/03/29/march-2021-web-server-survey.html

I've never even heard of OpenResty or LiteSpeed, but they're making gains, and OpenResty is about equal to Windows/IIS with less than half a percent difference between them.

nginx has emerged as the global favorite, surpassing Apache a few years ago.  All told, Microsoft is now a mere also-ran on the visible Web.  It's becoming clearer than ever that Windows Server is rapidly becoming a dinosaur.  No one wants it anymore.  No one is building out new application infrastructures on Windows Server.  I'm seeing the same thing out in the field - the only reason to deploy it is to run Microsoft's own server software -- which is transitioning to SaaS anyway.

We continue to move towards a world where Windows is only relevant on the desktop, and even there, it's not nearly as much of a "requirement" as it once was.

Oh, and remember when we had a discussion right here on this BBS about how ridiculous it was that Windows NT Server required a GUI on a server OS?  Of course you don't; it was 1993 and none of the people who were here then are here now (except me).  So ... we were having a discussion about the new Windows NT Server and how ridiculous it was that you had to consume a good chunk of your system resources running a GUI on the console because that was the only way to configure it.   So apparently they're now unveiling something called "Windows Admin Center" which is a state-of-the-1990s breakthrough that allows Windows Server to be configured using a web browser!!!!!!1   It seems they've finally figured out that no one really wants to run Server Core by installing RSAT on some other Windows machine.

"Those who do not understand Unix are doomed to reinvent it ... poorly."  -- Harry Spencer, 1987



 



[#] Tue Mar 30 2021 00:29:52 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: Netcraft confirms it: Windows is dying.

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I saw some financial reports recently and Microsoft shares are doing
*just fine* - because although traditional segments of Microsoft that
have always been strong performers have fallen off a cliff, their
overall strategy has been *incredibly* profitable. 

Yeah. Hosting millions of Linux servers on Azure is where they make most of their money now :)

The packaged-software business is eroding and it's eventually going to become a drain on their finances. That'll be interesting to watch.

[#] Tue Mar 30 2021 02:42:00 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: Netcraft confirms it: Windows is dying.

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We'll see. I think your enthusiasm for Microsoft's demise clouds your vision of the likelihood of that actually happening. The market is more competitive now. That makes Microsoft, and Intel, hungrier. This is good for consumers. Linux finally has traction - but is now the root of *most* of the Evil Empires in technology - and ones that pose far more of a threat to liberty than Microsoft does, or ever has. 

Hopefully Windows remains a competitor, and OS X, too - so that no single ideology or platform dominates the technology landscape. A world solely filled with Linux alternatives would be a sad world, indeed. 




Tue Mar 30 2021 00:29:52 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Netcraft confirms it: Windows is dying.
I saw some financial reports recently and Microsoft shares are doing
*just fine* - because although traditional segments of Microsoft that
have always been strong performers have fallen off a cliff, their
overall strategy has been *incredibly* profitable. 

Yeah. Hosting millions of Linux servers on Azure is where they make most of their money now :)

The packaged-software business is eroding and it's eventually going to become a drain on their finances. That'll be interesting to watch.

 



[#] Tue Mar 30 2021 08:55:18 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: Netcraft confirms it: Windows is dying.

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Microsoft isn't in "demise" so much as they now make more money from their cloud business than they do from packaged software. That's a good thing.

My love for technolibertarianism comes second to the fact that I fucking hate Windows. I loved through the 1990'
s as better technology got steamrolled by the likes of Gates and Ballmer because of Microsoft's abusive business practices. I lived through the 1980's dealing with MS-DOS because Mary Gates got them the inside track with IBM.

Bill Gates has been denying his infamous "640K ought to be enough for anybody" remark for decades, but he's never done anything to dispel the fake news that Digital Research lost the opportunity to build the PC operating system because Gary Kildall decided he'd rather fly around in his plane that day instead of talking to IBM.

Windows is crap. Microsoft is evil. Bill Gates is the worst person in all of recorded history. These are immutable, undeniable facts, I am declaring them "const" and they are not disputable.

[#] Tue Mar 30 2021 11:52:52 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: Netcraft confirms it: Windows is dying.

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Nah, I understand that your hate for Microsoft is irrational, and I know I'll never change your mind. They operated more effectively than their competition - and people like you, developers - generally exist in a world of zeros and ones, where there are binary truths of right and wrong - and that makes a lot of folks like you share the opinion you have. You see a thing is "better" and that something that is worse achieves success at the expense of the "better" thing through factors that seem - to you, to be irrelevant. 

But they're not. In the real business world - being willing to bend or even break the rules - if the punishment for being caught is less than the reward for breaking the rules - is actually a necessity to success. The businesses who see and leverage that reality tend to succeed, while the ones that do not fall behind and fail. 

In other words - the maxim, "No good deed goes unpunished," is true, and crime often DOES pay - if you do it right. Almost all of the most successful, wealthiest, biggest companies have broken laws getting there. It is an area that introduces random chaos, shades of gray, and ambiguity into the world. 

You can dislike Microsoft for being so successful at recognizing and leveraging that - and maybe they've lost this edge... all stalwarts eventually come to that point. Nobody ever thought Sears was going to go away, either. 

But, you can't change the reality. The world does not operate as neatly and ordered as your mind would prefer it. ;) 

 

Tue Mar 30 2021 08:55:18 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Netcraft confirms it: Windows is dying.
Microsoft isn't in "demise" so much as they now make more money from their cloud business than they do from packaged software. That's a good thing.

My love for technolibertarianism comes second to the fact that I fucking hate Windows. I loved through the 1990'
s as better technology got steamrolled by the likes of Gates and Ballmer because of Microsoft's abusive business practices. I lived through the 1980's dealing with MS-DOS because Mary Gates got them the inside track with IBM.

Bill Gates has been denying his infamous "640K ought to be enough for anybody" remark for decades, but he's never done anything to dispel the fake news that Digital Research lost the opportunity to build the PC operating system because Gary Kildall decided he'd rather fly around in his plane that day instead of talking to IBM.

Windows is crap. Microsoft is evil. Bill Gates is the worst person in all of recorded history. These are immutable, undeniable facts, I am declaring them "const" and they are not disputable.

 



[#] Tue Mar 30 2021 15:01:54 EDT from Nurb432

Subject: Re: Netcraft confirms it: Windows is dying.

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lol

Mon Mar 29 2021 18:39:00 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Netcraft confirms it: Windows is dying.

   So apparently they're now unveiling something called "Windows Admin Center" which is a state-of-the-1990s breakthrough that allows Windows Server to be configured using a web browser!!!!!!1   



 



[#] Tue Mar 30 2021 15:09:42 EDT from Nurb432

Subject: Re: Netcraft confirms it: Windows is dying.

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Isn't that most large companies, really?

Mon Mar 29 2021 19:49:41 EDT from ParanoidDelusions Subject: Re: Netcraft confirms it: Windows is dying.

I don't think they really care where in technology their profits are coming from, as long as they're still a dominant fortune 500 in Technology. 



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