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[#] Wed Jan 06 2021 16:48:16 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Keep in mind what started this discussion was a complaint about Microsoft moving the cheese all the time on their OS. 

Meanwhile, you guys are talking about migrating between completely different DEs when one DE went too far in some way or didn't go far enough in some other way. 

And saying, "well, at least you have a CHOICE". 

Yeah - but your cheese is moving from Gnome to KDE back to Gnome to something completely different. That is *actually* moving your cheese FURTHER each time. 

That is what is frustrating to me. Can I make Gnome look and operate just like it did around Debian Sarge and Potato? When the developers move the cheese in some stupid direction, instead of packing up my shit and going looking for a whole new DE - can I just go, "Nope. You had it right, and I'm going to stick with what works"? 

THAT is a choice. The rest is all picking your preferred version of getting told how you are going to do things. 

 



[#] Wed Jan 06 2021 17:49:21 EST from darknetuser

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2021-01-06 10:31 from ParanoidDelusions
 

Is it just a switch, or does it take specific configuration? Can I

make Gnome look just like it used to, when it was a desktop? 

 

I don't think so.

You can install whatever desktopn environment you want, and there are desktop environments supposed to be clones of old desktop environments that were discontinued by the original maintainers.

For example, if you liked the way Gnome 2 worked, you can install Mate, which is basically a Gnome 2 clone. Trinity is a KDE 3 clone. And so on.

Or you can just send it all to hell and work with a frankenstein environment you craft yourself, bundling a window manager and a bunch of utilities you like together :P

[#] Wed Jan 06 2021 18:28:29 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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Yeah - but your cheese is moving from Gnome to KDE back to Gnome to

What I really want is the desktop from Mac OS 9, with a Linux kernel and userland underneath. OS X makes me feel like I am drowning in a vat of Starbucks coffee.

[#] Wed Jan 06 2021 19:36:38 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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And don't get me wrong - for the people who want to do that, I think it is awesome that there is that choice. I'm sure some people, and there is a little bit of this in me, just like to set up an OS and make it look and operate as awesome as possible. I don't buy old Macs and Amigas and spend hours setting them up JUST to play the games. I like building them, figuring out where things go, what settings need to be configured to make it "just perfect" for me. 


But I've always argued that there is also just my "work truck" - and I want it to mostly get out of the way and not constantly be challenging me to relearn how to put it in gear. I hate this about Adobe Creative Cloud. Every time I log into Illustrator or Photoshop, everything that I *knew* has changed - and I end up spending an hour on Youtube figuring out how to erase a background again. 

Microsoft is generally that way. I don't do much customization of Windows at all. I don't make it pretty, I don't add custom pointers or backgrounds or any of that. It is a worktruck for me. I want it to be as straightforward as possible. I want it to have pretty much a known set of basic tools out of the box that I'm comfortable with and that work well for me - and it doesn't even have to be *great* at doing those things. Just dependable. 

Windows is these things, in this regard. 

I remember back between 2000 and 2010, there were whole sites dedicated to people showing how frickin' COOL their Linux desktops were. They looked fantastic. Great backgrounds, great themes, great icons, great utilities running, all kinds of information on the screen... works of art - each one of them customized to each individual user's very minute personal preferences. 

Professionally - I want to sit down to machines that are boring, grey-suit, cookie cutter, "once you've seen one you've seen them all," environments. 

That is why I love Lenovo Thinkpads, too. Windows doesn't have a personality, or not much of one. Apple nailed it. I don't want to work with the edgy Coffee Shop guy who is good looking and witty. I want to work with the dumpy balding middle aged guy who cracks dad jokes. 






Wed Jan 06 2021 17:49:21 EST from darknetuser


Or you can just send it all to hell and work with a frankenstein environment you craft yourself, bundling a window manager and a bunch of utilities you like together :P

 



[#] Wed Jan 06 2021 20:35:47 EST from Nurb432

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lxde. does its job and stays out of the way.

Wed Jan 06 2021 19:36:38 EST from ParanoidDelusions

And don't get me wrong - for the people who want to do that, I think it is awesome that there is that choice. I'm sure some people, and there is a little bit of this in me, just like to set up an OS and make it look and operate as awesome as possible. I don't buy old Macs and Amigas and spend hours setting them up JUST to play the games. I like building them, figuring out where things go, what settings need to be configured to make it "just perfect" for me. 


But I've always argued that there is also just my "work truck" - and I want it to mostly get out of the way and not constantly be challenging me to relearn how to put it in gear. I hate this about Adobe Creative Cloud. Every time I log into Illustrator or Photoshop, everything that I *knew* has changed - and I end up spending an hour on Youtube figuring out how to erase a background again. 

Microsoft is generally that way. I don't do much customization of Windows at all. I don't make it pretty, I don't add custom pointers or backgrounds or any of that. It is a worktruck for me. I want it to be as straightforward as possible. I want it to have pretty much a known set of basic tools out of the box that I'm comfortable with and that work well for me - and it doesn't even have to be *great* at doing those things. Just dependable. 

Windows is these things, in this regard. 

I remember back between 2000 and 2010, there were whole sites dedicated to people showing how frickin' COOL their Linux desktops were. They looked fantastic. Great backgrounds, great themes, great icons, great utilities running, all kinds of information on the screen... works of art - each one of them customized to each individual user's very minute personal preferences. 

Professionally - I want to sit down to machines that are boring, grey-suit, cookie cutter, "once you've seen one you've seen them all," environments. 

That is why I love Lenovo Thinkpads, too. Windows doesn't have a personality, or not much of one. Apple nailed it. I don't want to work with the edgy Coffee Shop guy who is good looking and witty. I want to work with the dumpy balding middle aged guy who cracks dad jokes. 






Wed Jan 06 2021 17:49:21 EST from darknetuser


Or you can just send it all to hell and work with a frankenstein environment you craft yourself, bundling a window manager and a bunch of utilities you like together :P

 



 



[#] Fri Jan 15 2021 14:03:52 EST from Nurb432

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LOL Having some issues at work ( long story, browser issues ) and the dude asked me what version of Edge am i running at  home.

That there is some comedy.  He knew better than ask me that.



[#] Fri Jan 15 2021 14:30:02 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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What browsers were you guys talking about as Chrome/IE/Firefox alternatives that have more respect for your privacy and less lip service about it? 

 

Fri Jan 15 2021 14:03:52 EST from Nurb432

LOL Having some issues at work ( long story, browser issues ) and the dude asked me what version of Edge am i running at  home.

That there is some comedy.  He knew better than ask me that.



 



[#] Fri Jan 15 2021 15:44:31 EST from Nurb432

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I think for the most part we are stuck with chromium or a derivative of that if you want something modern but not totally infected. Im sure its still got some google cruft, but far less and the code is out there for people to look at so harder to hide. FF has just got on my f-u list. I do wish tor browser was not based on it, as its damned convenient. 

I'm looking at webkit a bit, but no decisions made yet.

Fri Jan 15 2021 14:30:02 EST from ParanoidDelusions

What browsers were you guys talking about as Chrome/IE/Firefox alternatives that have more respect for your privacy and less lip service about it? 

 

Fri Jan 15 2021 14:03:52 EST from Nurb432

LOL Having some issues at work ( long story, browser issues ) and the dude asked me what version of Edge am i running at  home.

That there is some comedy.  He knew better than ask me that.



 



 



[#] Fri Jan 15 2021 18:43:07 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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This is what I'm feeling. I had dumped Chrome and Edge for Firefox... and then their ladyperson came out talking about how they're going to drive initiatives to shut down those terrible voices that disagree with the political Left. 

Chromium does have the advantage of working with all the Google plugins that I really like, including Duckduckgo privacy. 

I've got Seamonkey, mostly to design and edit simple webpages as landing pages for The Sanitarium. I haven't actually used its web browser for much more than testing. 

 

Fri Jan 15 2021 15:44:31 EST from Nurb432

I think for the most part we are stuck with chromium or a derivative of that if you want something modern but not totally infected. Im sure its still got some google cruft, but far less and the code is out there for people to look at so harder to hide. FF has just got on my f-u list. I do wish tor browser was not based on it, as its damned convenient. 

I'm looking at webkit a bit, but no decisions made yet.

Fri Jan 15 2021 14:30:02 EST from ParanoidDelusions

What browsers were you guys talking about as Chrome/IE/Firefox alternatives that have more respect for your privacy and less lip service about it? 

 

Fri Jan 15 2021 14:03:52 EST from Nurb432

LOL Having some issues at work ( long story, browser issues ) and the dude asked me what version of Edge am i running at  home.

That there is some comedy.  He knew better than ask me that.



 



 



 



[#] Sat Jan 16 2021 00:34:14 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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I'm running the latest Edge at work, with two important extensions: DuckDuckGo Privacy Essentials, and New Tab Redirect. This allows me to run a Chrome that has been de-Googled by Microsoft, and then I de-Microsoft it. The last thing I want is to have a screenful of Microsoft MSN propaganda shoved in my face every time I open a new tab.

On my personal rig I am running the build of Chromium that is included with Ubuntu, with the same two extensions installed. I was using Dissenter for a while, and I may go back to it, just because it's paranoid and anti-Google by its very nature.

[#] Sat Jan 16 2021 00:58:26 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Paranoid and Anti-Google is a big part of what I am after. Dissenter. I'll look into it. 

 

Sat Jan 16 2021 00:34:14 EST from IGnatius T FoobarParano
I'm running the latest Edge at work, with two important extensions: DuckDuckGo Privacy Essentials, and New Tab Redirect. This allows me to run a Chrome that has been de-Googled by Microsoft, and then I de-Microsoft it. The last thing I want is to have a screenful of Microsoft MSN propaganda shoved in my face every time I open a new tab.

On my personal rig I am running the build of Chromium that is included with Ubuntu, with the same two extensions installed. I was using Dissenter for a while, and I may go back to it, just because it's paranoid and anti-Google by its very nature.

 



[#] Sat Jan 16 2021 07:53:42 EST from darknetuser

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2021-01-15 14:30 from ParanoidDelusions
What browsers were you guys talking about as Chrome/IE/Firefox
alternatives that have more respect for your privacy and less lip

service about it? 

Firefox with ghack's custom user.js is the closest you are going to be to an unleaking browser that gets most websites working, specially if you use OpenBSD's port. OpenBSD has a bunch of telemetric crap patched out.

Seamonkey is Firefox without the corporativism.

If you move out of those two you enter the territory of browsers that mayn not work with complex websites. Surf 2 is an ok one. It uses Webkit as a rendering engine but the whole browser is extremely basic. It supports your regular networking needs (TLS, proxies) but has no tab control. The website has patches and examples for implementing your own stuff into the browser. Yes, it is THAT basic.

Oh, there is also Icecat, which is GNU's take on a de-crapped firefox, if you want to give it a try.

[#] Sat Jan 16 2021 08:38:23 EST from Nurb432

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A quick glance does not reveal what engine dissenter is based on.

 



[#] Sat Jan 16 2021 08:42:48 EST from Nurb432

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I think its more about being pissed at FF not afraid of their engine, so using derivatives sort of defeats the purpose.   That is why im looking at web kit, its an open engine, and does support HTML5 and JavaScript, so its 'current enough'.   i could wrap some python around it ( via QT ) and not worry at all about extensions companies are adding to it to track/etc.  of course where you go matters, and the JS libraries that load dynamically once you get there are always a risk..

Or, its "Links for the win!"  :)  

 

Sat Jan 16 2021 07:53:42 EST from darknetuser
2021-01-15 14:30 from ParanoidDelusions
What browsers were you guys talking about as Chrome/IE/Firefox
alternatives that have more respect for your privacy and less lip

service about it? 

Firefox with ghack's custom user.js is the closest you are going to be to an unleaking browser that gets most websites working, specially if you use OpenBSD's port. OpenBSD has a bunch of telemetric crap patched out.

Seamonkey is Firefox without the corporativism.

If you move out of those two you enter the territory of browsers that mayn not work with complex websites. Surf 2 is an ok one. It uses Webkit as a rendering engine but the whole browser is extremely basic. It supports your regular networking needs (TLS, proxies) but has no tab control. The website has patches and examples for implementing your own stuff into the browser. Yes, it is THAT basic.

Oh, there is also Icecat, which is GNU's take on a de-crapped firefox, if you want to give it a try.

 



[#] Sat Jan 16 2021 09:01:39 EST from zooer

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[#] Sat Jan 16 2021 09:05:59 EST from Nurb432

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That was my first thought too when i read that. He will leverage it to get his way. "Look at all the hungry people, we need to do xyz or everyone starves ( but me )" While all along its only due to him not using the fields he bought, and not whatever excuse he uses to control. 

He is an evil SOB

Sat Jan 16 2021 09:01:39 EST from zooer

 



[#] Sun Jan 17 2021 17:51:44 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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A quick glance does not reveal what engine dissenter is based on.

Dissenter is based on Brave, which is based on Chromium.

Brave was founded by Brendan Eich after Mozilla fired him because he donated money to some cause the cancel mob didn't like. It is designed to be a privacy-first browser, with a focus on user control of who the browser actually talks to.

Dissenter takes it one step further by adding built-in integration with the Dissenter sideband web commenting site. As with its namesake, it is made by the people who run Gab. And quite frankly, I trust the people who run Gab far more than I trust the people who run Google or Mozilla.

Is it perfect? I don't know, go ahead and audit it.

[#] Sun Jan 17 2021 18:59:40 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Is it available as a distro package, or does it need to be downloaded separately? I guess I can DuckDuckGo those results, now that I have the name. I agree - my faith in Google or Mozilla is not as far as I can toss my own fat ass. 

 

Sun Jan 17 2021 17:51:44 EST from IGnatius T Foobar
A quick glance does not reveal what engine dissenter is based on.

Dissenter is based on Brave, which is based on Chromium.

Brave was founded by Brendan Eich after Mozilla fired him because he donated money to some cause the cancel mob didn't like. It is designed to be a privacy-first browser, with a focus on user control of who the browser actually talks to.

Dissenter takes it one step further by adding built-in integration with the Dissenter sideband web commenting site. As with its namesake, it is made by the people who run Gab. And quite frankly, I trust the people who run Gab far more than I trust the people who run Google or Mozilla.

Is it perfect? I don't know, go ahead and audit it.

 



[#] Sun Jan 17 2021 19:42:12 EST from Nurb432

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Personally im thinking of trying to stay away from chromium too.   In the past, i never cared and used both without worry ( chromium on ARM, no chrome, that i know of ), but i wonder how much influence Google has over the code. It is theirs afterall. Sure it can be audited, but would take more than one person. and ongoing. 

 

Or, i'm just being overly paranoid.



[#] Sun Jan 17 2021 21:23:38 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Here is the problem to me... 

To fully enable Chormium, the features that make it worth installing - you have to use a Google account. Same with Firefox - you have to register. 

This is where that personal pod thing comes in. How about if *I* store my centralized things - my history, my apps, my passwords - on my own machine, that only I have access to... rather than having it centralized on a Google or Mozilla cloud. 

That is what I don't trust about any of these big tech companies. With Chromium - with Firefox - they still get you to buy in to using their centralized services to fully utilize the browser. Chromium is *zero* different than Chrome itself, in that regard. You're still feeding the big tech machine. 

 

 

Sun Jan 17 2021 19:42:12 EST from Nurb432

Personally im thinking of trying to stay away from chromium too.   In the past, i never cared and used both without worry ( chromium on ARM, no chrome, that i know of ), but i wonder how much influence Google has over the code. It is theirs afterall. Sure it can be audited, but would take more than one person. and ongoing. 

 

Or, i'm just being overly paranoid.



 



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