Language:
switch to room list switch to menu My folders
Go to page: First ... 23 24 25 26 [27] 28
[#] Thu Nov 11 2021 14:17:49 EST from Nurb432

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Which is too bad. 

Society has lost something over the generations.

Thu Nov 11 2021 01:32:51 PM EST from IGnatius T Foobar
Most people don't care about drive trains and performance and other car stuff.
They just want a box with wheels to drive to the local Starbucks.

 



[#] Thu Nov 11 2021 14:19:17 EST from Nurb432

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

I guess im glad then that it never came to be installed in my little car and we kept manual steering. In 1990 the model change was to have that.. it sounded neat, but perhaps not so much in practice.

Thu Nov 11 2021 01:50:06 PM EST from LoanShark
This electric steering on the recent BMWs feels the same way. Super precise but strangely effortless, and utterly lacking in road feel.

 



[#] Thu Nov 11 2021 18:25:11 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

This electric steering on the recent BMWs feels the same way. Super
precise but strangely effortless, and utterly lacking in road feel.

I find that to be the case in any drive-by-wire vehicle, regardless of how it is powered. It's reminiscent of 1980s cars that had ridiculously eager power steering, before they reduced it to "power assist". You can't feel the road through a video game controller. Maybe they should take a cue *from* the video game industry and start introducing some haptic feedback.

Drive-by-wire also encourages some design fails, such as the vehicle I rented once where the automatic transmission shifter was a KNOB on the dashboard, identical in size and shape to the volume knob on the radio.

At the end of the day, however, I think we're on our way to perfecting the mechanical side of the electric car experience. The motors have a lot of power and torque, and I believe the haptic problems are solvable with a little effort.
I just don't think the energy storage problem will be solved in a mass-scalable fashion for a while yet, which is why I don't want this stuff *forced* onto us.

[#] Thu Nov 11 2021 22:07:52 EST from LoanShark

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Drive-by-wire also encourages some design fails, such as the vehicle I

rented once where the automatic transmission shifter was a KNOB on the

dashboard, identical in size and shape to the volume knob on the radio.


That's horrible.

I've only ridden in a Prius one time, maybe 15+ years ago, but it had some similar bullshit. I think there's a knob next to the infosystem that puts you into a downhill-oriented, regenerative braking mode. That sort of shit should be either integrated in the shifter or on the steering wheel.

[#] Sun Nov 14 2021 22:20:24 EST from ParanoidDelusions

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Agreed. Both my M4 and M235 have much less communicative steering than my Z3, my E36 or my E30 had. 

And it absolutely has an impact on the overall driving experience. The M235i is actually better than the M4 - and by 2020, my model, people were saying they had gotten the steering feel on the M4 much improved - so I have no idea what the earlier models felt like. 

And it *is* very Audi-like. 


Thu Nov 11 2021 13:50:06 EST from LoanShark
2021-11-08 21:14 from ParanoidDelusions
I just think electric is *cheating*. It doesn't feel *natural*. I'm
not a big fan of Audi - they make fast cars that handle like they're
on rails... but you're really just sitting in the driver's seat
*suggesting* what you would like to do... it is doing all the actual
driving. 

This electric steering on the recent BMWs feels the same way. Super precise but strangely effortless, and utterly lacking in road feel.

 



[#] Sun Nov 14 2021 22:21:00 EST from ParanoidDelusions

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Oh for sure. But they're more to me than that - and I won't give mine up easily. 

 

Thu Nov 11 2021 13:32:51 EST from IGnatius T Foobar
Most people don't care about drive trains and performance and other car stuff.
They just want a box with wheels to drive to the local Starbucks.

 



[#] Fri Nov 19 2021 08:53:15 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Of course, and that's fine.  At some point, keeping a gasoline or diesel powered vehicle around will be like collecting vinyl records.  We're not there yet, but it will happen.



[#] Fri Nov 19 2021 14:25:06 EST from LoanShark

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]


I think any actual haptic feedback stuff, on the steering wheel at least, will most likely continue to be reserved only for warnings from the driving-assistance technology rather than any attempt to simulate road feel.

I've only ever driven one car that had that crap. It was a 228i Gran Coupe that I got as a loaner while my 330i was in for maintenance. It was for the lane departure warning; if you start to wander out of your lane, there is a bit of automated steering (you can actually feel the wheel turning for you) accompanied by a bit of haptic vibration from the steering wheel.

Luckily my '17 330i does not have this stuff; BMW is not like Subaru where all the tech is included on the base trim level. (They nickle-and-dime you to death with option packages.)

[#] Mon Nov 22 2021 22:30:08 EST from ParanoidDelusions

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

My M235i has the lane departure warning, but only above 45 mph. I'm not sure if it has collision avoidance braking. 

The M4 has lane departure warning, at lower speeds, and proactive braking. I don't think it has lane correction. 

But I was talking about a driving simulator, where the haptic feedback simulates the road noise - and where, on sliding the ass out on my virtual M4, I quickly corrected it, and went along my way - only to realize later, *after* the session, that I had experienced the complete and authentic sensation of the *weight* of the car on the back axis sliding out, and correcting it - in sync with my steering, breaking and throttle adjustments. There *was* no 4000 pound car sliding it's rear out behind me. I was in a seat in my living room that didn't even have hydraulic motion simulators... but I *experienced* the sensation and correcting it felt exactly like it does in real life.  

But that does bring up an interesting point. If they can simulate the experience of a 4000 lb car breaking loose accurately enough that it is convincing on an XBox... 

Why couldn't they do something similar in a real car with modern "drive by wire" steering that tends to cause a dead steering sensation? 

Eventually, you would have to wager that this is exactly what they'll do. Electric steering takes away they road feel, so just like they pipe in synthetic engine sounds - they'll eventually have sensors that translate real world wheel data into synthetic feelings on the steering column. 


Fri Nov 19 2021 14:25:06 EST from LoanShark

I think any actual haptic feedback stuff, on the steering wheel at least, will most likely continue to be reserved only for warnings from the driving-assistance technology rather than any attempt to simulate road feel.

I've only ever driven one car that had that crap. It was a 228i Gran Coupe that I got as a loaner while my 330i was in for maintenance. It was for the lane departure warning; if you start to wander out of your lane, there is a bit of automated steering (you can actually feel the wheel turning for you) accompanied by a bit of haptic vibration from the steering wheel.

Luckily my '17 330i does not have this stuff; BMW is not like Subaru where all the tech is included on the base trim level. (They nickle-and-dime you to death with option packages.)

 



[#] Sun Nov 28 2021 17:09:37 EST from triLcat

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

There's transportation and there's entertainment. When you're talking about public roads, sorry if you're less entertained, we want traffic to flow and people to arrive alive. 

Sun Nov 14 2021 22:21:00 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Oh for sure. But they're more to me than that - and I won't give mine up easily. 

 

Thu Nov 11 2021 13:32:51 EST from IGnatius T Foobar
Most people don't care about drive trains and performance and other car stuff.
They just want a box with wheels to drive to the local Starbucks.

 



 



[#] Sun Nov 28 2021 17:16:37 EST from Nurb432

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

"arriving alive" has nothing to do with drive train selection, or personal choice in your car. It is 100% on how you drive it. You ca be just as deadly ( or safe.. ) in a 800hp Mopar hemi powered roadrunner as a battery powered smart car.. 

Besides, i helped fund those 'public' roads. 

 



[#] Mon Nov 29 2021 14:46:41 EST from LoanShark

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

be just as deadly ( or safe.. ) in a 800hp Mopar hemi powered
roadrunner as a battery powered smart car.. 

Exactly.

I mean, driving a more powerful car has its disadvantages--people tend to assume that you're a prick. And honestly... sometimes you are. A fast car will inevitably tempt people to get on the gas pedal.

There's a certain art to driving these machines in a way that plays with what they're capable of, but doesn't create a safety issue or piss people off.

And honestly, a faster car, driven conscientiously, may be capable of doing more, in reasonable safety, compared to what can be done safely with the base-trim-level powertrain. Overtaking maneuvers become more precise; you spend the last half of the pass completely off-throttle.

[#] Mon Nov 29 2021 15:00:03 EST from Nurb432

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

I wont deny that a certain % of the prick population might have a tendency to gravitate towards more powerful cars and drive like jerks.    But its not the car's fault..

Several of my cars in the past were like that, they would eat 'regular' cars for breakfast and still be hungry.  But i never once did anything on a public street to endanger anyone else. Ever.



[#] Mon Nov 29 2021 15:34:34 EST from LoanShark

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]


TBH, there's a certain kind of person who goes and buys a mid-engined supercar but lacks the skills to drive it both safely and in a way that exploits its capabilities.

[#] Mon Nov 29 2021 15:36:13 EST from LoanShark

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

TBH, there's a certain kind of person who goes and buys a mid-engined

supercar but lacks the skills to drive it both safely and in a way that

exploits its capabilities.

(which for the most part can only be done on track. There's limits to what you can do safely on a canyon run, in a car that is capable of taking the corner far faster than you can see around it.)

[#] Mon Nov 29 2021 16:08:24 EST from Nurb432

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Honestly, you dont need a super car to exceed "limitations". 

Even what i drive on a daily basis, it would be easy to go past what is safe in a blink ( roll over risk )..   Or my little car, which is not a super car by any stretch, can easily exceed limitations of sight around curves. ( but not exceed limitation of the car itself )



[#] Mon Nov 29 2021 17:18:13 EST from LoanShark

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]


Yeah, even a 2002 Civic LX is powerful enough to get you in trouble.

[#] Mon Dec 06 2021 22:24:59 EST from ParanoidDelusions

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

They have a lane for you - it is called the *right* lane - possibly "public transportation." 

Germany has little problem with this, and per mile driven is not much different than nations and states with far stricter traffic limits. But - most Germans take driving far more seriously than the rest of the world. 

Places like India and big parts of Asia have terrible cars and intersections without traffic controls, and everyone manages to get through 4 way intersections of THOUSANDS of cars per hour without fender benders. 

Studies have actually indicated that many traffic controls contribute to accidents - in part because people expect and feel ENTITLED to blow through the intersection at the posted speed - for example, rather than feeling that they have to use common sense and caution because there are no rules saying that "they have the right of way". The science is pretty much on my side here. Most traffic enforcement isn't about increased safety. It is about increased municipal revenue.  

But even with the rules, those of you who "want traffic to flow and people to arrive," are frequently the biggest problem drivers on the road. Most good drivers, when we hear someone say something like this, we think to ourselves "that is the dangerous driver on the road." Average drivers on the road, distracted with their phone conversation, or texting, or spilling their coffee, or eating a cheeseburger, or trying to calm the crying kid in the carseat - are the ones that cause fatal accidents *most* often. 

You're the ones who turn left in front of motorcycles with the right-of-way. You're the ones that veer into oncoming traffic while adjusting the radio. I prefer you where you belong, in the slow lane, moving with the flow of traffic over there, half-focused on what you should be doing and half focused on what you *shouldn't be paying attention to at the moment*, and quickly disappearing behind me in my rear view mirror. 

Stay in your lane, and we won't have any problem. 

 





Sun Nov 28 2021 17:09:37 EST from triLcat

There's transportation and there's entertainment. When you're talking about public roads, sorry if you're less entertained, we want traffic to flow and people to arrive alive. 

Sun Nov 14 2021 22:21:00 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Oh for sure. But they're more to me than that - and I won't give mine up easily. 

 

Thu Nov 11 2021 13:32:51 EST from IGnatius T Foobar
Most people don't care about drive trains and performance and other car stuff.
They just want a box with wheels to drive to the local Starbucks.

 



 



 



[#] Mon Dec 06 2021 23:23:00 EST from ParanoidDelusions

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

And everyone else here is right, too. In particular, that what may seem like an unreasonable maneuver to you in your grocery-getter is not even a remotely high risk maneuver in my M4. Likewise, my friend with a McLaren 720 can do things in his car I would never attempt in my M4. You'll never BELIEVE this - but it is true. 

I honestly think that expensive performance cars get the reputation for being driven by pricks - but really - it is becoming defensive against people in LESSER cars driving like pricks that causes a lot of this perception. It is a particular problem in the M4 - with people in all kinds of vehicles - like... Nissan Altimas... Ford Escorts, not SVTs... seeing me cruising at "flow of traffic" and driving intentionally aggressive - that generally responds in my executing a maneuver that puts them FAR far behind me. 

If you're in the passing lane, pacing the traffic next to you, occasionally speeding up, then slowing back down, and leaving barely enough gap for me to get by... *eventually* I'm going to use that gap. Once I get past you, if you suddenly speed up and start trying to pace me, I'm going to *dust* you - and this happens to me frequently. My wife used to be like TriCat and think it was just me - but now she has seen it enough that it irritates her too. Slow down, speed up, and GTF over. If you've been in the passing lane for 3 miles with the same car to your right the whole time, you're fucking up the flow of traffic. You're not a cop. It isn't your JOB to keep people from speeding by creating a wall in the road. I don't know why people do this. They're just fucking morons. It should be legal to have a front mounted cannon and to simply blow people who do this to pieces. 


Some states have actually started enforcing these rules - ticketing people who stay in the passing lane and impede the flow of traffic. Early studies indicate it causes traffic accidents to go down. I don't think this is at all surprising. 


As I said, I was driving 60 to Globe through a box canyon recently. When a 2 lane passing zone came open, I took the outside lane - and this is ANOTHER thing people do... they drive one lane highways at a crawl because oncoming traffic makes them nervous, and then they come to a passing lane, they get over, but they ACCELERATE because suddenly there isn't opposing traffic coming at them on the opposite side at the same speed they're doing. This causes the people TRYING to pass them to have to punch it to get past them. If they don't - they end up stuck behind them when the passing lane closes, at which point, those same drivers who were doing 80 on the inside lane in the passing lane slow back down to 60 once they're back on a 2 lane, undivided highway with oncoming traffic... If you've been doing 60 MPH or less because it is a two lane highway, when it opens into a 2+1 passing zone don't speed up in the slow lane to 80, only to slow down once again when it goes back to just two lanes. SO many drivers do this... MOST drivers do this. In my world, Highway Patrol and State Troopers would be authorized to pull your spouse and children out of the car and put a round in the back of their heads in front of you if you were caught doing this, as a warning to other drivers who might be tempted to do the same. 

Anyhow, some guy in a Ford F150 with a lift kit on the inside lane was MATCHING me as I tried to pass him on blind curves in a passing zone. One mistake and I was in oncoming traffic, or into him, and there was a stone wall on the other side of him. My *car* had plenty of grip and acceleration left - but I didn't trust MY abilities, and it was blind curves. As soon as it opened up on a long clear straight, I punched it and left the guy. But we were doing 80+, both of us, around those corners so punching it to assertively leave him behind meant triple digits. But... I didn't want to be BEHIND that asshole again. I'm sure to someone in a Honda or Malibu my speed seemed unreasonable and dangerous and irresponsible. It would have been, if I were in their car. 

I may have been the biggest prick on the road that day - but it was only in RESPONSE to other drivers being pricks first. If not for their aggressive driving, mine would have been far more casual and restricted. The drive back down was far calmer. Less traffic, and no one pulling crap like that. People were letting me pass.  Just because I am going faster than you, doesn't mean I'm trying to race you. The corollary is true too. I frequently will be in the fast lane passing a block of traffic and have a Hyundai Sonata or late model Kia or Nissan or Toyota Corolla come up on me doing nearly triple digits. I maintain my passing speed, and then get over and let them pass. They want to go faster than I do, and I am not the police - it is not my job to slow them down if they want to do 110 in a base 4cyl Nissan Altima on a public highway. I don't know what their urgency is. Maybe their wife is giving birth in the back seat. I GTF out of their way. In my car that has a top speed of 175mph. Too many people feel challenged to "defend their space" on the highway. 

Another example - I was actually IN my Hyundai. A gutless hybrid. My daughter had left a box of chocolates down, and our 15 pound wire-haired rat terrier mix had gotten into them. I had rushed to the local Banfield, and they wouldn't induce vomiting, suggesting an emergency vet on the opposite side of town. Rushing over there, two cars, a Tesla and a Yukon Denali - decided that I was *racing*... I couldn't beat them... I wasn't RACING them... but I was exceeding the speed limits. Not as fast as they were though - the bonus was, that they were clearing a path through traffic for me - so I followed them. They were looking over, laughing, smiling, "Look at that idiot who thinks his Hyundai is fast..." 


"No, dumbshit, I know it isn't fast... I'm rushing to save this dog's life. Thanks for helping." 

We got up to a left turn onto the highway, they were at the light next to me, laughing and smiling and being jackasses - there was no oncoming traffic, I was wasting time at the red light, so I ran it. 

The dog got his stomach pumped, was kept under observation overnight, and lived. 

Not everyone breaking the law and driving fast is trying to *race* you or be a prick. But when the person driving fast is in a $70,000 plus car - I think MOST people on the highway instantly *assume* this is the case. 


They're probably right - but they probably *made* them that way. It is also why we park way out all by ourselves in the least desirable spaces - because some of you will *intentionally* door ding us - because a LOT of you are jealous, petty, bitter people. 

Also, just because you don't have the reflexes, focus, or nerves to do something in an automobile safely - doesn't mean that someone else can't do it without effort. I could never drive like an F1 or NASCAR driver - and you probably can't drive like me. But I wouldn't assume that a NASCAR driver doing things I would never try is going beyond HIS limits. He is going beyond MINE. Stop projecting your abilities on other drivers. That truck driver - he was probably a local, he probably knew those highways like the back of his hand, drives them daily and he was testing me and was probably *very* comfortable. Despite being in a much more capable VEHICLE, I knew I was at *my* limits. He was just having a good ol' time in his pickemup truck showing the city boy how worthless his German sports car was. If I drove that highway every day in my car, I'm sure I would have made short work of him, instead of a white knuckle 5 minute passing zone. In that case - he was the more experienced driver than me. Which is why I waited for a long clean straight - where EXPERIENCE wasn't as important as horsepower - to put him behind me. 

 















[#] Tue Dec 07 2021 15:08:11 EST from LoanShark

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

You're the ones who turn left in front of motorcycles with the
right-of-way. You're the ones that veer into oncoming traffic while

No joke, my uncle fractured his pelvis & was in very bad shape after a driver left-hooked him when he was on his bike.

Go to page: First ... 23 24 25 26 [27] 28