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[#] Mon Aug 23 2021 08:04:29 EDT from Nurb432

Subject: Re: Justice League

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The Netflix version of DD was really, really, good.  Pre-woke.  It was before Disney took over as well, they refused to renew the contracts after they took ownership. 

 

 



[#] Tue Aug 24 2021 02:17:37 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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So... DC Comics has always been an also-ran to Marvel comics - yet their heroes are actually the mainstream culturally dominant "superheroes" in US mythology. Superman, Batman and Wonderwoman combined have so much more mainstream reach than any of the top tier Marvel heroes. Spiderman is the only one that comes close to the same league. At the same time, Superman is such a Gary Stu... Wonderwoman actually isn't a hero - she is an ancient Greek God myth. I mean, from the start Marvel kind of conceptualized Thor as a multidimensional being - not a "God" in the conventional sense - and I think implicitly they were always signaling Ancient Alien Astronaut theory without actually saying it in Thor's canon. But Wonder Woman - yup... the ancient Greek gods are an actual *thing* in the DC universe - even if Wonderwoman is the only one actually having anything to do with the mortal world anymore. Batman... is... well... storied, isn't he? 

But... Joker was a weird one. When it came out, everyone on the Right of "Comicsgate" was loving it, and everyone on the SJW camp hated it, and I came out going, "I've got some strong reservations about the theme and thesis of this movie - what it is saying..." and neither side would listen to me. The Left *hated* it, because a few people in their camp told them it should be hated, and the Right loved it, for the same reason - and I was going, "I think you've both got this one wrong..." 


Sure enough, the narrative has now flipped, with both sides acting as if they were never fooled. 

Regardless, in the long run - I think the message of the Joker is muddied at best. Possibly intentionally so - in which case, if it serves as a platform for SJW narratives - it does so with a lot of self-doubt and cautionary advice. It turned out to be remarkably prescient about the events of 2021 - and I predicted at the time that this was quite likely. I found it *unsettling* that it spoke of so much rage directed at *my* economic class in society. Ultimately, a disenfranchised, hopeless urban class striking out blindly and mistakenly at other targets just because of social and economic inequity is just as psychotic as the Joker - who became their rallying point in the movie. 

It is a movie worth contemplating - and even if it represents a bias toward the other side's perspective - an individual interpretation of the movie can come to a completely different conclusion about what it says about the state of society. As a conservative, who is of a class that, regardless of what you call it, privileged, entitled, fortunate, driven, mass-contributing, rewarded - I recognize that too much consolidation of wealth and opportunity causes unpleasant results for my class that my class frequently can not prevail against. Just ask the aristocrats of the French Revolution. I don't believe in social welfare programs - I think if you give someone the government tit, they get dependent on it, and it erodes ambition and drive and self-affirmation. But at some point, you've got to give them enough balance of opportunity, class mobility, and hope or they start becoming consumed with issues like bathroom gender issues and eventually they're tearing down statues and making cities unlivable hellholes until it spills over into the affluent, comfortable suburbs where the rest of us live. 

So, some mechanism of "voluntary equitable redistribution of wealth," probably is better than the inevitable alternative - forced and violent redistribution of wealth where it happens anyhow but with lots of our own blood spilled in the process. 

That doesn't mean I'm a socialist or I agree with the themes of society creating its own monsters and a collective responsibility and guilt for the hopelessness of the underclass and the violent revolutionary anger that spawns. But I think that if the underclass is feeling that way, it is conservative to listen to the underclass, consider their anger and its roots, and figure out the LEAST violent, least expensive and most satisfactory method to derail and diffuse that anger. The Joker is about a mentally ill man who can't cope with an indifferent society having a psychotic break and becoming the anti-hero of a *society* that can't cope with an indifferent society leading to a collective social mass-psychotic break. 

And 2021, it more or less actually happened. Any movie just a few short steps ahead the reality we are about to step into is a remarkable accomplishment - regardless of if the message is on "my side" or not. The writer was probably shocked at how quickly his fiction resembled reality. 

Another one that I disliked and that disturbed me and that I got mixed messaging from is Midsommer. It is a horror movie, and the Left actually *loves* it for its hidden messaging about collectivist societies. 

I'm not sure they're right about that, though. The collectivists *are* the monsters in the movie - and it was weeks after viewing it that I realized that collectivism and analogies of its evils was the thesis. I actually discovered that Leftists *like* the movie just trying to find out if my interpretation was correct. "Is this movie about socialism/communism," and I got a lot of Far Left sites interpreting the movie as PRO collectivism. But it seems like another example of a movie where the message you take away will differ depending on your *personal* philosophy on the ideology. I'm not sure it is pro or anti either. It may be, or it may be fairly impartial and moderate. 



 




[#] Tue Aug 24 2021 02:31:29 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: Justice League

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I think we miss that comics have frequently had "woke" messaging throughout their existence. 

DD is *blind*. Thor is a gimp in his human form. Banner is a nerd with anger issues because he was brought up in an abusive home. Stark is a rich kid who became a military complex arms supplier and a substance abuser. The X-Men are *all* misfits. Peter Parker is a nerd haunted by how his inaction led to his uncle's death. Comics have always had strong, independent female leads - and they have always had burdens too. They introduced gay characters in the 80s. Arguably earlier - as homoerotic themes have always been a part of the comic industry. Flamboyant muscled men running around in tights grappling with one another. C'mon. Every Jack Kirby character ever is a blond Germanic male archtype with a dutch painterboy haircut. Think Kirby had a type? Thor, Khamandi, Thundarr the Barbarian, and their offspring, He-Man - are ALL THE SAME frickin' character, wearing different spandex or loincloths. 


And every super hero has some huge weakness - some kryptonite. Some flaw or imperfection or vulnerability. 

They've always had PoC characters. 

The problem with woke culture is that instead of doing these things organically - creating good stories where "woke" characters overcome their liabilities to be heroes - they've turned the themes into signaling woke virtues and using the characters as a vessel for that narrative. Adding critical race theory into the mix introduced the idea of equity over equality - of class warfare where the white male heroes all have to fail, all have to lose their power - to empower anyone non-white, non-male or non-heterosexual. Some of the most interesting plotlines of Marvel comics in particular have dealt with the human frailty and weakness of their characters. Tony Stark's fall into a skid-row drunk was an interesting story back in the 80s, where a black man took over wearing the iron suit. But the stories were about human frailty and recover and redemption. Now, Thor just gets fat and despondent and that is it... because, "White men will let you down." it is done from a place of petty anger and with a message of deserved failure and exposure of the flaws of the White Western European Patriarchy. It says that there can't be a co-existing equality - that our heroes must be replaced. 

And therein lies the problem with modern woke narratives. It isn't about promoting equality and respect. Woke narratives are revenge fantasies. 




Mon Aug 23 2021 08:04:29 EDT from Nurb432 Subject: Re: Justice League

The Netflix version of DD was really, really, good.  Pre-woke.  It was before Disney took over as well, they refused to renew the contracts after they took ownership. 

 

 



 



[#] Tue Aug 24 2021 17:26:07 EDT from Nurb432

Subject: Re: Justice League

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I was meaning pre-woke as i guess Netflix has gone all out recently.   

Sure there has always been some of it in comics, forever. Just not the radical bent we see today.



[#] Wed Aug 25 2021 18:59:03 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: Justice League

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Agreed. 

Tue Aug 24 2021 17:26:07 EDT from Nurb432 Subject: Re: Justice League

I was meaning pre-woke as i guess Netflix has gone all out recently.   

Sure there has always been some of it in comics, forever. Just not the radical bent we see today.



 



[#] Sat Oct 02 2021 19:19:29 EDT from Nurb432

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Sort of a movie. its a short.. but still.   

Having been into 3D modeling for at good 30 years, its amazing how far we have come in so little of a time. I still remember when a teapot on a checkered floor after a couple of days of rendering was mind blowing.  And this was all done with commodity software ( i think its free even ) and rendering in *real time*.. Not even 'studio level' stuff, or taking weeks to render on a huge farm.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXZ45yLpg14



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