With the addition of MacPorts, I've been able to use macOS and FreeBSD interchangeably and everything works on my FreeBSD servers.  In case you were wondering, yes, it is pawsible to use chroot to build an environment that almost exactly matches your purroduction environment (almost because different kernel).

Sat Aug 19 2023 22:40:23 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Mac OS as a daily driver?

All sarcasm and MCIBTY aside ... here's a question to ponder.

I have recently learned that I will soon be given the opportunity to select a Mac as my work computer if I want it. (The only choices will be Mac and Windows, so please don't suggest any other options.)

My current work machine runs Windows 11 and WSL2. I spend most of my day in WSL2 doing devops type stuff, writing in Terraform and Python and Go and shell and that sort of thing, building automation and integration for data center and cloud operations. As an IT architect I spend the remainder of my time writing technical documentation, drawing diagrams, and being the Winston Wolf of the organization (I solve problems).

So my question to the audience is: will I find Mac OS a more comfortable environment than WSL2? The native side of Windows is of course completely unusable because production is all Linux and the tools just don't fit. Will Mac OS get close enough that I can sit at its native shell prompt and run Real Computer tools? Or will I find it "just different enough" to be problematic?

Complicating the equation is the fact that I spend 99.9% of my time on a VPN with only one IPv4 and one IPv6 address. WSL2 uses an on-host NAT to get to the outside world, and it also doesn't support IPv6 at all. We use IPv6 heavily.

Sarcastic answers are always entertaining, but I am looking for real answers this time.

I thought i answered it.. ( with a serous note, if short ) but seems to be missing. I also missed the python part ( or was that not in the first ) and all i picked up on was 'living in wsl "

I had said stick with windows originally, since if you are stuck in a windows environment at the office, trying to make another platform work for daily life is a pain  ( my case Linux on a macbook, not osx so not 1:1 ) I do it, and the only way around it for me was VM for that bit of work that *requires* windows. Its getting better with more stuff moving to web, but being different, is still a pain to not be like the rest of the office.

But that said if you are doing mostly python stuff and watching cat videos ( ok training stuff :) ), i suppose it wont matter in the bigger picture and id go with whichever hardware is better. But, and i hate saying this.. I might still go with windows here, at least for the time being.  Personally i'm not real fond of what OSX has become operationally, and it seems more limiting.  But i guess in your case, you wont really care about mac software, or the interface, so its about hardware at that point. 

And for what its worth, i have python native on windows, running spyder and 'normal stuff'.. Not sure why you need WSL? Did i miss something there that still ties you to windows?

i'm sure i have asked before: i assume real VMs or dual boot isn't an option ? Host platform wont matter much then, and we are back to which is the better hardware being offered.

( and if this entire comment was useless, sorry, its early AM .. woke up with a migraine )

Wonder if OSX supports jails or bhyve.  ( or are jails still a thing? i do admit im way out of date in the BSD world. )

Docker working yet? ..  just a passing thought since you can swap out everything with that.. 

Sun Aug 20 2023 03:32:17 AM EDT from LadySerenaKitty Subject: Re: Mac OS as a daily driver?

.  In case you were wondering, yes, it is pawsible to use chroot to build an environment that almost exactly matches your purroduction environment (almost because different kernel).

While Jails are still a thing in FreeBSD, macOS does not have them.  It does have Docker, tho.

Sun Aug 20 2023 08:07:35 EDT from Nurb432 Subject: Re: Mac OS as a daily driver?

Wonder if OSX supports jails or bhyve.  ( or are jails still a thing? i do admit im way out of date in the BSD world. )

Docker working yet? ..  just a passing thought since you can swap out everything with that..

Cool. I loved jails. ( tho to be honest, its been so long if i had to create one to save my life.  i better say good bye )

After spending some time getting MacPorts and some other stuffs installed and set up, you'll be able to do just that.

Sun Aug 20 2023 20:48:45 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Mac OS as a daily driver?

And no I don't really care about Mac native software. As far as I'm concerned it'll basically just be a weird variant of FreeBSD. I just want to be able to sit at the machine's *native* prompt and type "terraform apply" or "go build" or "make"
and have it do what I expect.

I tend to agree then, looks like you might as well feed the fruit-beast.  They need more money.

Mon Aug 21 2023 12:37:30 AM EDT from LadySerenaKitty Subject: Re: Mac OS as a daily driver?

After spending some time getting MacPorts and some other stuffs installed and set up, you'll be able to do just that.

Sun Aug 20 2023 20:48:45 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Mac OS as a daily driver?

And no I don't really care about Mac native software. As far as I'm concerned it'll basically just be a weird variant of FreeBSD. I just want to be able to sit at the machine's *native* prompt and type "terraform apply" or "go build" or "make"
and have it do what I expect.

 

The previous model i had from the office you could add larger m.2, but no more ram.

If you bought the custom adapter, took it apart...

I did.. then found the screw holding the m.2 down was pre-stripped to prevent you from doing it easily.   ya, i could have with a tiny bit of epoxy but pissed me off enough i gave up.

Mon Aug 21 2023 10:56:51 AM EDT from fandarel

My main gripe with Mac hardware is that I can't just pop it open and install a bigger SSD or more RAM. My beefy machine only has 512GB SSD and 8GB RAM, which is... meh. My wife's has a 2TB SSD and 32GB RAM, but as yet I haven't managed to talk her away from it.

Oh and custom screwdriver too..  it was new enough to have had the 'apple elliptical' nonsense ..     Not sure where those wandered off to.. 

Mon Aug 21 2023 11:21:35 AM EDT from Nurb432

 

If you bought the custom adapter, took it apart...

 

I believe that the major difference is that ports is legacy and brew is  more current. So id stick with brew. At least when i cared, i did that.

But if im wrong someone will correct me :) 

Mon Aug 21 2023 01:54:43 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I did hear that Crapple has gotten really st00pid with the laptop hardware and now solders memory and storage chips to the motherboard instead of slotting them. But this would be my work machine so I don't care. My personal machine is a mid tower with a real motherboard, and it runs Linux.

Homebrew vs. MacPorts. Someone's going to have to explain the difference to me so I can make an informed decision. Sounds like two solutions to the same problem. I'm going to venture a guess that the word "ports" in MacPorts implies a connection to the FreeBSD ports catalog? I wouldn't mind using it as an opportunity to absorb some BSD-fu as a side effect.

Could always try it and see. 🤷‍♀️

Mon Sep 18 2023 22:58:36 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Ok, next question, for anyone who knows their way around a Mac. I still haven't gotten mine but I'm preparing.

I've read that APFS allows you to have multiple "volumes" on the same partition.
This sounds kind of cool, actually. They've provided the ability, it seems, to multi-boot without having to partition the drive. (Yes I know, btrfs and zfs can do that too, but those aren't readily available on a Mac.) There are a few web sites that suggest you can use this feature to have multiple copies of Mac OS on the same disk, for example, if you're trying out a beta and you don't want it to be your main system yet.

I'm thinking I will want to use this feature to have "work" and "personal" bootable volumes on the same machine. When I travel with my Windoze laptop I carry a bootable USB with Linux on it, and boot that when I want to use it as a personal machine. The Linux image doesn't have the Bitlocker key, so it can't mess with the Windoze installation; and when Windoze is booted, the USB drive isn't attached.

So on a Mac ... does anyone know if disk encryption on APFS is performed "per disk" or is it "per volume"? I want it to be "per volume" so the two bootable images don't have each other's keys, and therefore can't see each other's data. I want to make sure that when I'm booted into the work volume, the personal volume is binary sludge, and vice versa. Can APFS do that?

So ... on the 14th I got approved for an iPhone Loan.  On the 15th, at 0700 Texas Time, I woke up early specifically to pre-order my phone.  It took a while because the online Apple Store was having capacity issues.  At 0735 I got my pre-order in.

iPhone 15 Pro Max 1TB.

Sort of sad when people use terms like 'loan' in relation to a phone...  how have we come to this point?

i still buy Chinese stuff direct, cut the middle man that slaps a pretty label and $ added on.  I spend ~150, which end up being mid-hi range. I go with xiaomi normally as they are the big consumer electronic manufacturer over there, decent quality and they do *everything*...even electric toothbrushes..   AND no carrier crap AND no NSA tap...  ( ya, CCP tap is included for no extra charge, but they dont care about me, i am not even a blip on their radar.. )

Even xiaomi has $2k+ flagship phones that will do night vision, go get your coffee and wipe your butt for you.. but if a 150 dollar phone does all i need, and lasts me until the next required platform update ( 4g to 5g mandate ), why?

Of course if i was really paranoid, id get a pinephone and run Linux.. 

Mon Sep 18 2023 23:32:41 EDT from LadySerenaKitty

So ... on the 14th I got approved for an iPhone Loan.  On the 15th, at 0700 Texas Time, I woke up early specifically to pre-order my phone.  It took a while because the online Apple Store was having capacity issues.  At 0735 I got my pre-order in.

iPhone 15 Pro Max 1TB.

if i had not blown away my native OS on my macbook i could try it.

you could fire up a quick VM with Macos and see what it does, before you order the hardware. 

Tue Sep 19 2023 09:24:04 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Could always try it and see. 🤷‍♀️

BRILLIANT! :)

I was hoping to determine ahead of time whether I needed to order an appropriate external disk for when I need to run the machine in "me mode". The disk I was using for that on my current machine, I reformatted it and gave it to my daughter for her digital photography class, figuring I could get something FASTER for myself.

Then I read about APFS volumes ... if the machine can do that on its own, then I don't need an external.