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[#] Wed Oct 05 2022 04:07:11 EDT from LadySerenaKitty

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Tue Oct 04 2022 19:35:37 EDT from Nurb432

If that is the case for everyone ( i thought you had to buy them separately, and they charged an arm and a leg, but ill be happy to be wrong ) then ya, that should be plenty.

I know the last macbook i got via work didnt come with a single adapter. Nothing beyond a power brick.. All it has is 4 usbc and a audio jack.. it does not even have HDMI out for a monitor ( or projector.. ), or Ethernet.  Sure, a decent 3rd party hub that supports a power feed is only about 60 bucks, but its the principle of the thing, we spend several K$ on the stupid thing, and they cant even include a cheap hub.. 

Tue Oct 04 2022 05:57:53 PM EDT from LadySerenaKitty

 

My iPhone 11 shipped with a USB-C cable.  Isn't that enough?  

 



Ya, all new iPhones ship with a Lightning->USBC cable.  Apple is also preferentially pushing the USB-C power bricks over the old USB-A power bricks.  I honestly can't see all iPhone accessories being available if the phone itself has a USB-C port instead of a Lightning port.  HDMI out is done by sending a video stream from the GPU to an HDMI framebuffer chip inside the dongle, which is done via the 1x PCIe connection in the Lightning port.  Things like the SD-card adapter or the "USB mass storage adapter" also use the PCIe lane paired with their own SD host controller or USB host controller.

 

The EU may want standardization, which is a good thing, but their method is all wrong.  I think if the iPhone has to have a built-in USB-C port instead of the Lightning port, the vast majority of dongle types is going to vanish.  Say bye-bye to the HDMI output.  Apple's solution is to ship the Lightning port but also ship a USB-C cable.  This lets us keep all our high-bandwidth accessories and use the USB-C standard going forward.



[#] Wed Oct 05 2022 09:24:02 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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USB 3.1 can carry 10 Gbps. I don't know whether the dock to my work computer (a Dell) is Thunderbolt or USB 3.1 (both use the USB-C connector) but it's got the monitor and everything else attached to it.

I did notice that the iMac M2 comes with an ethernet port in the power brick.
So there's obviously a data connection of some sort on that, but it attaches to the computer using a magnetic connector that is neither USB nor Lightning.

[#] Wed Oct 05 2022 10:36:45 EDT from Nurb432

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the 60 dollar hub i bought has Ethernet, 2 HDMI, 1 VGA, 2 SD slots ( standard and micro ), 4 USB3 ports, USBC cable to your device, and of course USBC power input to charge the thing its plugged into and power the hub, The thing is really not that big, and is mostly just space for the ports so it can be done pretty easy if they want.. just package all those guts into the power pack.



[#] Wed Oct 05 2022 13:47:39 EDT from LadySerenaKitty

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Wed Oct 05 2022 10:36:45 EDT from Nurb432

the 60 dollar hub i bought has Ethernet, 2 HDMI, 1 VGA, 2 SD slots ( standard and micro ), 4 USB3 ports, USBC cable to your device, and of course USBC power input to charge the thing its plugged into and power the hub, The thing is really not that big, and is mostly just space for the ports so it can be done pretty easy if they want.. just package all those guts into the power pack.



If the chip handling the video portion is just a basic framebuffer, then it's Thunderbolt.  Thunderbolt is required for video to be handled with a basic framebuffer instead of a full-on GPU, since that's a PCIe x16 port, which is the only way to route video using PCIe-backplane mode (kernel modesetting) to an external port.  Thunderbolt also has a USB service and PCIe also has a USB service, so if any devices on those USB ports appear to be attached to the computer's internal USB host controller, that's why.  If it's able to provide USB connectivity while the video ports are in use, then it's Thunderbolt since PCIe only allows one of its connection services (video or USB) to be active at a time (in addition to PCIe service).  Thunderbolt allows all services to run simultaneously, which is presumably why Apple decided to use it.



[#] Wed Oct 05 2022 14:44:31 EDT from Nurb432

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All i know is said "C" adapter when i bought it. It didnt mention thunderbolt in the description. Works with this stupid MacBook ( the model with the silly LCD function keys ) and my PixelBook too.  ( only one video port tho.. )

I hate this macbook btw, the previous 2 i had installed Linux just fine ( minus WiFi on the last one.. which is fine i know WiFi is weird ). This one however, has been a complete nightmare due to drivers and boot configuration weirdness.   who in the hell requires a special proprietary driver for a freaking keyboard..  Cant even safely update without having to recompile the kernel again and hope it boots next time..

 



[#] Thu Oct 06 2022 09:51:48 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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This stuff is hard to keep track of (deliberately?). So if I understand correctly, Thunderbolt is an alt-mode for USB that turns the USB lanes into PCIe lanes and extends the bus out over the cable? I see videos of people putting SuperMegaDoomDestroyer-9000 video cards into these external boxes plugged into laptops, and still using the laptop screen. That's obviously a bus extension.

There's some other non-TB standard for video over USB though, like whatever the Switch uses.

[#] Wed Oct 12 2022 06:07:58 EDT from darknetuser

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Yes, I do think that this is massive government overreach and free

countries have no business getting that deeply involved in what
privately held electronics companies sell to their customers. On the

other hand, HAHA APPLE NEENER NEENER HAHA HAHA. I wonder if they'll be

so arrogant that they only sell USB-C in the EU and continue foisting

Lightning on their customers in the rest of the world.


Exactly what I was thinking when I first heard of that.

A problem I have with the idea is that it might be a lame attempt at forcing obsolescence of old devices. If you have an old smartphone and you lose a charger, it might be hard to source a new charger if the old ones are banned. I foresee Europeans buying chargers in the black market or sourcing them from China :)

[#] Thu Nov 24 2022 13:06:56 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Please help this penguin-blooded hacker deal with a Macintrash...

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Latest news from ${WORK} ...

Apparently we're not allowed to run virtual machines or WSL on our company-issued Windows(tm) machines, presumably because whatever is going on inside the VM is not visible to their spyware. This is a problem, because we have an increasing number of people who are doing infrastructure-as-code development and we absolutely cannot do that on Windows. We have virtual machines or WSL so we can run things like Terraform locally.

Talks are in progress to find a way to legitimize our setups, since they know it's legit work and we can't run it on Windows.

Now I'm hearing that they're drawing up plans to move the devops people ... to Macs.

Geezeless frackintosh, batman. So now we'll need special versions of our tools compiled for Mac. That's a world better than trying to get any of it running natively on Windows, I guess, but a far sight away from just using Linux. I guess they feel it's easier to lock down a Mac than to try to figure out Linux.

So for those of you who spend time in the fruity world, I have two questions:

1. Will I still be able to use my PC keyboard when docked? Is there even such a thing as a Mac dock? I have a switch on this thing to move between my personal machine (running Linux) and my work machine (running Windows on the bare metal). I see some stuff out on the Internet saying that you can remap win/alt to cmd/option. If I do that, and it's a laptop, will it mess up the laptop's own keyboard when it's not docked?

2. How does a Mac handle multiple boot partitions? Can I shrink the partition it ships with and install a second copy of Mac OS for personal use, and give the partitions different encryption keys so they can't access each other?
And what about Linux? Can I shrink the Mac OS partition and then run Linux from another partition? Or can I keep a bootable OS on an external drive?

[#] Thu Nov 24 2022 14:17:33 EST from Nurb432

Subject: Re: Please help this penguin-blooded hacker deal with a Macintrash...

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Just from my recent experience  YMMV

USBC - works fine with most any hub + mouse, keyboards, video ( as new macbooks dont even come with video out or wired network....).    Sure, you can get an apple branded thunderbolt hub at 10x the cost.  but i run regular USBC ones on mine, and do just fine.  One i have now provides power, 2 HDMI ports, 1 VGA, couple of USB3 and a TF slot and Ethernet ( which is now black listed from our network after a year of using it.  really? idiots )

Linux: If its a newer one, good luck getting it to work 100%.  So many propitiatory drivers and modified efi.  It can be done, but its a real PITA.  Mine, if i sneeze i will lose the keyboard/track pad and will have to spend an entire weekend getting it working.  Never have got WiFi/BT to work.  I think i could now, IF i had saved some special files from osx before i blew it away.  then figure out which binary blob , then compile in some more drivers, hope they are the right ones, bla bla bla.  ( i just use USB WiFi.. its easier )

It can boot between different partitions, unsure if you have to force it at each boot or can change the default, as i have never looked. ( hold down option key gives you a boot menu, so not hard ).  Assuming your folks dont password protect that of course.

This all assumes intel. not M* processors.  Last i heard, that is still a bigger struggle.

 

Now my previous model, everything worked with a simple Debian install other than WiFi/BT.  I was just going to upgrade the ssd, but after i found the screw pre-stripped to keep you from doing it, i just said f-it ill ask for a new one, should be no big deal to get it to run and copy my vm over.   ya.. right. 

 

The one before that ( an old core duo ) everything worked out of the box, even WiFi.  Each generation is more and more locked down and more of a pain.



[#] Thu Nov 24 2022 19:46:58 EST from Greg Nesbitt

Subject: Re: Please help this penguin-blooded hacker deal with a Macintrash...

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Running anything besides macOS on a Mac is painful. As Nurb said it works decently well on older hardware, especially if you don't try to use the built-in Broadcom wifi. Newer machines, especially the M* set, have a lot of unsupported hardware.
I have gotten along decently well with the Mac here at home since discovering homebrew. There's also macports, which allegedly has a lot more packages available, but my experience has been that half of them are crapola and unusable.
Everything I've needed has been in homebrew or easily buildable from source, with the caveat that on macOS cc == LLVM, not gcc.
If they won't let you have homebrew on the corproate Mac, I'd say you're screwed.
At $dayjob we are shortly to lose local admin rights and thus the ability to install software. IT will provide some sort of a 'software depot' with approved applications which we can install. No more WSL.
No Hyper-V. Unlikely they will approve cygwin or vim or any of the things that make Windows bearable. My solution is to ask for a Linux box for the lab environment (which IT doesn't control) and move all real work there. The work-issued laptop then basically becomes an email+Chrome+MS Office machine used as a terminal to hit the Linux box. Surprisingly IT was fine with that solution in my case. Maybe you can ask for something like that?

[#] Thu Nov 24 2022 20:12:26 EST from Nurb432

Subject: Re: Please help this penguin-blooded hacker deal with a Macintrash...

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We did that some time ago to most of the end users. Now its about to hit us IT folks too.

However we have an "out". "Beyond Trust". Its a service that they install where if you do something that requires any level of admin rights, you can 'request' it on the fly. If the executable is in the whitelist you get rights ( and it logs it ), if not, you get reported. Not reported in a bad way, just the request was logged as denied and you have to wait to be approved, or denied again, which is most likely. And if denied you have to go thru a whole bunch of red tape to try to get it approved. 

I just went thru this trying to get something installed on VDI that does not really support creating a SCCM package for.  With VDI they have already mandated no admin rights. For anyone.

End goal is also to go to a 100% whitelist sort of affair.   Been on the agenda for over a decade,. but was not a workable solution. But its almost here.

Our security team is now larger than any other team we have. And growing by the month. 

Thu Nov 24 2022 07:46:58 PM EST from Greg Nesbitt Subject: Re: Please help this penguin-blooded hacker deal with a Macintrash...

At $dayjob we are shortly to lose local admin rights and thus the ability to install software.

 



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