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[#] Thu Oct 22 2020 14:01:51 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: Text client on macOS systems displays high ASCII that are not visable to non-macoS users

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I remember the conversation but I don't think I was able to reproduce the problem. Have you found a way to force the problem to appear on a Linux system?
Or, can you provide a dump of what's hitting your terminal in canonical hex+ASCII format?

[#] Mon Nov 09 2020 23:18:24 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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I think at some point in the future I'm going to rewrite the text client, maybe even switch it over to use the REST API that is being built as part of webcit-ng. If I did it in Python I could probably hack one together in a weekend. Could be fun. Maybe even build it in a way where your <G>oto loop takes you through multiple servers instead of one. That would be cool.

[#] Fri Mar 26 2021 17:44:15 EDT from ASCII Express

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I just wanted to say that I use a screen reader for the blind, and love the text client.

[#] Sat Mar 27 2021 11:07:24 EDT from darknetuser

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2020-11-09 23:18 from IGnatius T Foobar
I think at some point in the future I'm going to rewrite the text
client, maybe even switch it over to use the REST API that is being

built as part of webcit-ng. If I did it in Python I could probably

hack one together in a weekend. Could be fun. Maybe even build it in

a way where your <G>oto loop takes you through multiple servers instead

of one. That would be cool.



I don't like how that sounds. I understand it would force you to install a webcit instance in order to be able to use the text client.

I prefer it the other way around myself: for the text client to be core functionality, and the web stuff an addon.

[#] Sun Mar 28 2021 09:08:27 EDT from nonservator

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Sat Mar 27 2021 11:07:24 AM EDT from darknetuser
2020-11-09 23:18 from IGnatius T Foobar
I think at some point in the future I'm going to rewrite the text
client, maybe even switch it over to use the REST API that is being

built as part of webcit-ng. If I did it in Python I could probably

hack one together in a weekend. Could be fun. Maybe even build it in

a way where your <G>oto loop takes you through multiple servers instead

of one. That would be cool.



I don't like how that sounds. I understand it would force you to install a webcit instance in order to be able to use the text client.

I prefer it the other way around myself: for the text client to be core functionality, and the web stuff an addon.

 

Strongly seconded. As few dependencies as possible for text.



[#] Wed Mar 31 2021 18:22:25 EDT from smashbot64

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Could you add petscii (commodore) to the text served by citadel over telnet? I know the petscii character encoding is well defined and documented. I just don't know how to make citadel do it.

 



[#] Sat Apr 03 2021 11:02:29 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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The idea of connecting a future text client through a REST API instead of through Citadel Server's native protocol is just an idea; I have no current plans to do it that way. Actually there are no current plans to do much of anything with the text client at the moment because there's so much else that needs to get done first.

It will always be my favorite, though. Did you know that Citadel will celebrate its 40th birthday this December? Pretty good for a piece of software whose original author abandoned it after a couple of months.

[#] Sat Apr 03 2021 11:09:11 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Could you add petscii (commodore) to the text served by citadel over
telnet? I know the petscii character encoding is well defined and
documented. I just don't know how to make citadel do it.

Hmm. That's an unusual ask. I used a Commodore 64 as my primary computer in the mid 1980s, so I know quite a bit about how PETSCII is laid out. What I don't know is how one would map it on a modern display. There seem to be Unicode equivalents to most of the special characters.

What is the use case you are trying to solve for?

[#] Thu Apr 22 2021 20:47:12 EDT from ASCII Express

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Save the text client! Fix the broken help system! Please?

[#] Sat Apr 24 2021 23:56:42 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Good news! ".Help SUMMARY" was there the whole time, it just got unindexed.
This has been fixed and will appear in the next release.

[#] Mon Apr 26 2021 23:51:26 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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It is awesome seeing tiny little things that have been broken for a while getting resolved. The activity in Citadel right now is just in time. 

 



[#] Tue Apr 27 2021 18:36:16 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Heh. I committed a bunch of changes to the text client today. None of them will have any effect on the visible application, quite yet ... it's just a program that has been neglected and deserves a little love. Aside from much of the code being written more than 30 years ago when I was a bit sloppy, it also still has support for a lot of things that will never be needed again (xmodem? cygwin? non-ansi terminals? servers more than 20 years old?)

There are a lot of assumptions one can make in 2021 that could not be made in 1987. And we're going to start making them. It will cut loose buckets of cruft.

[#] Wed Apr 28 2021 01:07:48 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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I can't wait. I'm stoked to have gone from a Pi3 to a 4 core i5 with 1TB of SSD running a VM... and I'm excited to have Citadel moving forward in a way that I can safely and easily implement on that platform once it is ready. 

Improvements in the web client, in the text client, in the setup and configuration... cleaning up the code, making it easier to install and reconfigure. All of these things make me super happy. Even if I never break 3 to 5 regular "callers"... 

My Nephew operates a bunch of nefarious sites in Europe - You know the kind - they *look* like legitimate sites in style and content - if you're not being careful, you could BELIEVE you were on skynews.com but a careful inspection reveals you're on skyenews.com... 

Anyhow, he was asking me why I don't send tickler mails out to users "we haven't seen you in a while and miss you." 

And my response was - that is what the nightclub does - they send you flyers and mailers and texts and emails, "Come see DJ Funk Spasm with 4 stages and cage dancers this weekend! $5 well drinks, $1 shots, and $.25 green beers!" 

I said, "I'm the local pub full of a small group of career alcoholics who all know that they can speak freely without offending someone, and they don't want OUTSIDERS who will be offended and don't understand the culture showing up." 

With the success moving to the VM - I am strongly considering splitting to a more commercial "Wallofhate.com" and a more pub-like "The Sanitarium BBS." 

One will have an agenda and be designed to create traffic and profit - and the other will be for real people. The fact that they're both owned and operated by the same entity will be somewhat hidden - or at least, not advertised.  

But... I've got to get what I have settled first before I consider that. 

Tue Apr 27 2021 18:36:16 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar
Heh. I committed a bunch of changes to the text client today. None of them will have any effect on the visible application, quite yet ... it's just a program that has been neglected and deserves a little love. Aside from much of the code being written more than 30 years ago when I was a bit sloppy, it also still has support for a lot of things that will never be needed again (xmodem? cygwin? non-ansi terminals? servers more than 20 years old?)

There are a lot of assumptions one can make in 2021 that could not be made in 1987. And we're going to start making them. It will cut loose buckets of cruft.

 



[#] Wed Apr 28 2021 14:44:55 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Public access Citadel sites will always be a bit off the beaten path. That's kind of the point. It's just one of many things Citadel can do, and the text client works pretty well in this use case.

In the future, federation/syndication features will allow multiple sites to operate and share content, but hopefully it will be a lot cleaner and smoother than what we did in the past. It's a very long road, shedding assumptions that were made in the dialup era.

[#] Wed Apr 28 2021 21:40:45 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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I think some kind of node based cross-pollination is a great idea - and will probably create better engagement and increase traffic. Especially as it scales. 




Wed Apr 28 2021 14:44:55 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar
Public access Citadel sites will always be a bit off the beaten path. That's kind of the point. It's just one of many things Citadel can do, and the text client works pretty well in this use case.

In the future, federation/syndication features will allow multiple sites to operate and share content, but hopefully it will be a lot cleaner and smoother than what we did in the past. It's a very long road, shedding assumptions that were made in the dialup era.

 



[#] Thu Apr 29 2021 10:05:04 EDT from darknetuser

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2021-04-27 18:36 from IGnatius T Foobar
Heh. I committed a bunch of changes to the text client today. None of

them will have any effect on the visible application, quite yet ...

it's just a program that has been neglected and deserves a little love.

Aside from much of the code being written more than 30 years ago when I

was a bit sloppy, it also still has support for a lot of things that

will never be needed again (xmodem? cygwin? non-ansi terminals?
servers more than 20 years old?)

There is xmodem support in the ext client? **WOW**.

Actually I think y/x/z-modem support is a nice way of transfering files without needing anything else than a supported terminal for it. Even Konsole supports it.

[#] Thu Apr 29 2021 10:54:35 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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It's still there ... it may even work, who knows :)

To understand why the text client is so peculiar, you have to understand that it is the direct descendant of the original "dialup BBS" code from the 1980s. It's literally a standalone BBS program that had its local datastore ripped out and replaced with a connection to a server.

That's why it retains a bunch of features that don't make sense anymore.
It's from a completely different era.

As we move forward, it will retain the classic look and feel of a citadel, but the code gets modernized. for example, a couple of years ago I ripped out all of the GNU Autotools crap and replaced it with much simpler scripting.


[#] Thu Apr 29 2021 14:51:18 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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Honestly, I was originally considering JUST publishing the text client - I didn't have a lot of interest in the web-client or attracting NEW users - I had considered just catering to OG Citadel users who would PREFER the Text client. 

But the Sacramento Citadel community doesn't really seem to like one another much, any more - and doesn't seem to have the nostalgia for the old days that I have. They've got a group on Facebook and they barely talk to one another. Even the ones that agree with one another. 

It is a little sad. I've had a couple of the curious from the old Sacramento Citadel scene show up a few times - but eventually they lose interest and stop checking in. Others... even ones who've been accused of being part of "my circle of Right Wing followers who hang on my every word," on Facebook - won't even log in. Facebook turns people into Zombies. The WalMart/Target of Online community. 

 

 

Thu Apr 29 2021 10:54:35 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar
It's still there ... it may even work, who knows :)

To understand why the text client is so peculiar, you have to understand that it is the direct descendant of the original "dialup BBS" code from the 1980s. It's literally a standalone BBS program that had its local datastore ripped out and replaced with a connection to a server.



[#] Wed May 05 2021 00:36:47 EDT from ASCII Express

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Wonderful! Thanks for fixing the .Help summary bug.

[#] Wed May 05 2021 00:40:38 EDT from ASCII Express

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I agree, this development happens at the right time, and it excites me as well.
I posted this in the main Citadel support room but I'll put it here as well. How about some kind of support for BBS doors?

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