Language:
switch to room list switch to menu My folders
Go to page: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11
[#] Sun Apr 25 2021 17:20:04 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Begin an atheist is so much easier. You dont have to figure out what
version of something you are, or be told...   its pretty much black
and white. 

Sort of. There are different versions but not quite as many names.

Atheism is a religion which insists that there is no God. Among those people, you've got your super-militant atheists who insist that non-atheists are clinically insane, you've got the people who just don't care and are cool with whatever you believe in, and you've got the agnostic types who figure there may or may not be a God and maybe they'll figure it out later, and all sorts of in-betweens.

And of course, there's the not-so-small matter of atheism only being "easier" temporarily.

[#] Sun Apr 25 2021 17:24:15 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

If you bet on Abraham's God and it turns out the real God is Zrock the

Skull Crusher, you are screwed.

I'm ok with that. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is so evident to me in His existence that it isn't even worth thinking about. And that's what a lot of people miss: when you spend enough time in prayer and actually establish a *relationship* with the living God, He will make His presence pretty obvious to you.

The same cannot be said for Zrock, FSM, Allah, Vishnu, Buddha, etc. etc.

[#] Tue Apr 27 2021 00:02:29 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

You are caught up in *theology* and not the metaphysical philosophy of a creator. 

There are infinite variables, of course, and you *could* end up screwed. But, it could be that ALL faith in *good faith* appeases an all powerful creator. Perhaps just the faith that there is something omnipotent and real is enough to get you up for consideration. Maybe good deeds do count - as long as they were done in faith of an afterlife, of a greater purpose. Maybe even the Atheist can get a break, if certain conditions are met. There is a spread on this side of the table, and the possibility of multiple winning hands. 

But the Atheist *bets* on there being NOTHING hereafter. So, if you WIN - you don't know. Your reward is ceasing to exist completely. No signal, no soul, not even darkness. Just an end to being. 

If you bet on God and lose, you just cease to exist. If you bet AGAINST God and win, you just cease to exist. 

But if you bet on God and win - you get to carry on - and if you bet on God and lose - you ALSO get to carry on - but presumably *miserable* for eternity. 

Of course, most atheists tend to be fairly miserable people. You're never the most popular people at the party - unless it is an atheist party, I suppose. But that sounds like a miserable party, itself. 

So - I suppose it is possible that you won't even notice the difference. 

The logic is sound. Betting against God in Pascal's wager is a fool's bet. 

It is coming up to a table where you place a bet and if you win, you don't get ANYTHING (literally - you get NOTHING)... and if you only find out if you DIDN'T win the bet. 

The people betting AGAINST you might lose too - but they're the only ones that get any payout if they WIN. 

Who would take that bet?!? I can't think of ANY other gamble with an arrangement like that. 






Thu Apr 22 2021 14:13:51 EDT from darknetuser
That said - at the very least I think atheism is a bad Pascal's
wager. If you've bet right, you'll never know. If you've bet wrong,

you'll spend eternity suffering fully aware that you lost the best. 


I call bullshit on the wager.

If you bet on Abraham's God and it turns out the real God is Zrock the Skull Crusher, you are screwed.

It can be theorized that God likes atheists more than religious people, and will end up throwing religious people into the flames because those are dudes stupid enough to believe whatever without proper evidence.

 



[#] Tue Apr 27 2021 00:12:53 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Well, from the Catholic perspective - you're just a branch of the Protestants, for sure. You're certainly not THEIR fault. They have enough guilt to bear already without taking on responsibility for that one. 

But as a Protestant, let me assure you - *we* don't really consider you *Protestants*. Too many guitars, folk songs, tambourines, snake handling, talking-in-tongues and other decidedly NON-Anglican and Non Western European traditions with the born-again Fundamentalist evangelicals. The whole witnessing thing that is real big among those denominations seems very rude, pushy, and aggressive to us. To us, you're almost like the 7DEs, JWs and LDS. We think of you as Southern rednecks  or Hippy cultists living in communal compounds. 

Decidedly - you're the biggest BRANCHES of Christianity popular in America today - and most of your SUPER-MEGAMART churches that are more like rockshows than services are part of the Southern Evangelical Fundamentalist variety. 

You're not very reserved by Protestant standards. Again - most of this has more to do with shared community values than with theology. Fundies feel cultish to Protestants. Part of the Protestant values are in being unassuming, unobtrusive, and "proper". 

We have opinions on Catholics... too. Mostly revolving on the idea that most of them are Italian or Irish - and that says everything that really needs to be known on that matter. :) 

How most people see us: 

The ultimate WASP joke collection and guide to their behavior


What it is REALLY more like: 

WASP RAP FTW! « dallaspenn.com

 

Sun Apr 25 2021 17:06:18 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar
If you don't think of yourself as a Protestant, you probably aren't -
especially if you think of it merely as a religious denomination or

Good. I consider myself a bog standard fundamentalist evangelical Christian.
Catholics believe that they are the only ones who can identify that way and everyone else is a "protestant". People who make that argument are often rude and bullheaded because they insist that the early Church and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same. They aren't, of course -- the RCC came into existence about 200 years *after* the death and resurrection of Christ, and Peter was *not* a pope.

 



[#] Tue Apr 27 2021 00:15:23 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Also, your services are too loosely structured and chaotic and loud and interactive for our tastes. 

Worship shouldn't generally be entertaining. It should be a little bit like a chore, duty or lecture. If it is difficult to fall asleep during services, they're being held too loudly and probably disturbing God. 

 



[#] Tue Apr 27 2021 06:18:23 EDT from zooer

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

 

Tue Apr 27 2021 12:02:29 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions


Of course, most atheists tend to be fairly miserable people.

 

I don't think this generalization is true.  Most generalizations are not true.

 



[#] Tue Apr 27 2021 09:20:58 EDT from Nurb432

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

All the ones i know, are not.

I know a lot miserable religious people however. Desperately trying to find something larger than themselves to cling onto, something to believe. "not here long, better be good or ill get punished"

Most atheists dont need that in their life. "not here long, might as well be a good person" is more the motto

 

of course there are always exceptions..

 
Tue Apr 27 2021 12:02:29 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions


Of course, most atheists tend to be fairly miserable people.

  



 



[#] Tue Apr 27 2021 10:43:55 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Also, your services are too loosely structured and chaotic and loud
and interactive for our tastes. 

Sorry, I couldn't hear you over my Marshall stack.

[#] Tue Apr 27 2021 13:11:38 EDT from Nurb432

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

I always used fender amps. 

Considering ditching my gear tho.  all it does is collect dust.  Not touched any of it in perhaps 30 years other than move it around when its in the way. 



[#] Tue Apr 27 2021 15:02:25 EDT from zooer

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

 

Tue Apr 27 2021 12:02:29 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

---SNIP----
But the Atheist *bets* on there being NOTHING hereafter. So, if you WIN - you don't know. Your reward is ceasing to exist completely. No signal, no soul, not even darkness. Just an end to being. 

But if you bet on God and win - you get to carry on - and if you bet on God and lose - you ALSO get to carry on - but presumably *miserable* for eternity. 
---SNIP---

 

Why is that the only choice? A religion has to have a hell?  Many religions don't have a hell, what if they are the correct religion?  What about being reincarnated?  

To say that Atheists will burn in hell for all eternity could be wrong.  What if they are just reincarnated into an alter boy?

Stop the assumption that Catholicism is the one true religion.

 



[#] Tue Apr 27 2021 18:56:03 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

I always used fender amps. 

Actually, at home all I have is a 15 watt Fender Sidekick. When I play electric guitar at church I just go right into the sound system. My effects pedal has all of the amp modeling built in. But our new worship leader prefers to have me on keyboards instead [ https://www.instagram.com/p/CNYwyrHhmBh/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet ].

[#] Tue Apr 27 2021 18:59:57 EDT from zooer

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

If you don't have an instagram or a facebook account you can not see that.

 



[#] Tue Apr 27 2021 19:03:32 EDT from Nurb432

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Went to my daughter in-law's wedding at my wives church.   ( perhaps 6 years ago )

They had the obligatory keyboard in the back, but on stage they had a glass box, with a drum kit in it...  and cooling fans for who ever sits in it..    Rather odd. 

 

Tue Apr 27 2021 06:56:03 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar
I always used fender amps. 

Actually, at home all I have is a 15 watt Fender Sidekick. When I play electric guitar at church I just go right into the sound system. My effects pedal has all of the amp modeling built in. But our new worship leader prefers to have me on keyboards instead [ https://www.instagram.com/p/CNYwyrHhmBh/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet ].

 



[#] Wed Apr 28 2021 00:36:02 EDT from test2

Subject: forum religion

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

over the years I've found that forum religion is an absolutely useless endeavor. much text expended and nothing ever comes of it.  no minds changed. maybe a little info passed to friendly observers but otherwise, don't bother.  now, in person, that's another story completely.  that is where you can demonstrate the meaning of "vain" by its opposite. (vain means without power). 

Sometimes christian testimonies in forums can be fun but they pretty quickly (a week or two) diminish.  most "religions" aren't testimony friendly.  you read a few amazing testimonies and after the 4th one everyone gets numb.  it's more fun to just go out and do what we're supposed to do in real time with other people you meet "on the way".  

christian church in the west is mostly a business.  it's hard to distinguish between them by the behavior during the gathering.  sit in a catholic mass turn the sound off and watch.  sit in a baptist gathering turn the sound off and watch.  after you've been to 15 or 20 different denominations watching the proceedings- you wind up with about 3 groupings of gatherings.

1- traditional; liturgy, stand up, sit down (kneel), talk, music, exit, pancake house

2- contemporary; lights, fog lamps, intro, music, music, talk, music, music, exit, pancake house 

3- talk, music, music, wamba zamba hoopa doopa rollaround bark bark bark giggle giggle, music, music, talk, exit, pancake house.

none of them are actually in scripture.  well, wamba zamba might be but thats at peoples homes (no bark bark bark allowed)

I like to drop in unexpectedly on congregations. occasionally i get spotted, much fun always ensues (im in person and not vain)



[#] Wed Apr 28 2021 01:40:37 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Listen... 

There aren't jokes about Vegans, Crossfitters and CHRISTIANS coming into the bar and everyone there knowing about it 5 minutes later... 

Or really any other religions. 

I mean... the Evangelical Christian Fundamentalists - there are the "Do you have a few moments to talk about Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior" gags... 

But - maybe that is part of it... 

I get the feeling MOST atheists have a concept of Christianity that is mostly focused on the Far Right Moral Majority Evangelical Christian Fundamentalist/Baptist movements, which, as I acknowledged above, are what a good 98% of the super-churches in America are. They're also lumping JWs and 7thDE and Mormons who show up at their doors in with this. 

They're the ones with picket signs making girls cross through protest lines to get abortions, too. 

But trust me... Atheists - especially ONLINE - are the other extreme from this. The whole Dawkins "New Atheist" thing was founded on this concept. As a group, as a community, it was conceptualized with the idea of aggressively EVANGELIZING Atheism. 
I'll cite sources confirming my claims: 

https://www.wired.com/2006/11/atheism/

And it is *absolutely* just as annoying, unwelcome, and invasive when *atheists* do it as when Evangelicals do it. It is the *same* thing. 

Trust me... you *think* we're all like this - but most of us, most traditional Christians - do not care if you kill your unborn baby. Well, we might care - but we figure it is YOUR issue to square away with God - not ours. We don't care if you are sleeping with another man, or another woman as the case may be. Again - your issue, not ours. We don't want to share, unasked, our theology with you because we think it is a sin to NOT try and convert you. We don't want to witness to you, or give testimonials. 

We're too busy cleaning our own house, removing the plank from our own eye, to worry about the dirt on your floor or in your eye. We think you should fix it - but we realize that telling you this isn't going to HELP that happen - and is more likely to hurt. 

ESPECIALLY among *actual* Protestants. 

I was thinking about that in relationship to this conversation last night. Evangelicals are big on the concept of a public acceptance and confirmation of "Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior." 

Protestants don't really have this terminology at all. Ours is simple. "Jesus Lord and Savior." 

Accept it, don't accept it - that doesn't matter. He *is*. It isn't *personal*. It just *is*. Your personal acceptance or rejection doesn't change that. It is a fundamental theological difference - but it is also a conceptual difference. We don't focus on being born again. And Evangelicals, theologically - think this is a RISK for us as Christians - because without the public acknowledgement and rebirth - we're not saved to them. 
But it isn't a question when you're raised Protestant. You don't *have* to accept. You know. Jesus *is* Lord and Savior. 

We'll kind of go along with Evangelicals to get them to shut up and stop trying to convert US - but we're just appeasing them. We don't *have* to PERSONALLY accept him. Our doctrines say He *is* - and it is absolute. Personal acceptance is basically, to us... well - VIRTUE SIGNALING to your congregation. It actually is the furthest thing from a PERSONAL commitment to Jesus. A personal commitment to us, as I've described our culture above, is a private, unshared, internal thing. What Evangelicals call a *personal* commitment to Jesus Christ is actually a *public* spectacle of their faith - followed up by reinforcing that commitment with AGGRESSIVE evangelizing and witnessing even when unsolicited... ESPECIALLY when unsolicited. It is the furthest thing from Protestant values possible. 

And... I'm not saying it is wrong or right or better or worse. I'm saying it is part of the culture. 

But on a social, societal level - Atheists really are at war with Southern Baptist/Evangelical Fundamentalists - and they've made it a polarized black and white fight where *WE* get attacked even though we DGAF if you go to hell. At least, not much. Not enough to go out of our way to spread the Good Word to you if we know you're just going to have a hostile reaction to it. That is wasted effort. 

And so you've adopted THEIR techniques with your own belief (or anti-belief, or non-belief, or whatever you want to call your faith based system that God doesn't exist.) 

From a scientific view, the scientific method states you can't prove a negative. So your belief that God doesn't exist is just as faith based and metaphysical as their faith that He does. There is a paradox and circular logic in your belief/value system. Atheists like to invoke that "absence of evidence is evidence of absence." But it isn't a scientific proof. It is just that you have no support for the hypothesis that He *does* exist. 

Ultimately, the rise of Dawkins Atheism/New Atheism has made atheists just as unwelcome of a site as Bible Thumping Moral Majority Christians or any other aggressively evangelizing sect, group or denomination that feels COMPELLED to share the ABSOLUTE CORRECTNESS of their way. 

Protestants don't really do that. If asked, we'll tell you what we BELIEVE, explain our faith, explain that our faith means that we must also believe that our way is right - but we like to also say things like, "but all things are possible to the Lord, and I certainly am not one to judge the mind of God." 

Meaning, "This is just my opinion, I could be wrong." 

We're probably just being polite and trying to avoid conflict with that - which is also a cultural value of ours. We probably think we're ABSOLUTELY right and we're almost positive you're going to go to Hell - because it is part of our doctrine. But nothing good ever comes of admitting that to someone intent to burn for eternity... 


Trust me. You're miserable people to be around. So are the bible thumpers. The rest of us aren't. Because MOST of us at the bar ARE those other things. Protestants and Lutherans and Catholics and a dozen other beliefs - but it is the 2 atheists, the 4 Evangelicals, the Vegan Couple, and the Crossfitter that everyone HEARS from - every time. So - you don't HEAR from us - and therefore, we're NOT miserable to be around. You're all so busy trying to convince one another God does or doesn't exist, or that you should give up meat, or that crossfitting changed your life - that you don't even NOTICE us. We're never the ones annoying *you*... 

You're ALWAYS the ones annoying us. 

Search your soul, and you'll know that there is truth to what I'm saying. 





[#] Wed Apr 28 2021 01:52:41 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

I've said a number of times I was raised a Protestant. Stop the assumption that only Catholics think that if you reject Jesus and the Abrahamic God that you'll suffer torment for eternity. 

Personally, I'm a very non-traditional Protestant - and include a lot of Taoism in my personal spirituality, and very little organized theocracy or religious doctrine in it. 

Your response is, perhaps unintentionally - a red herring. I'm talking about traditional Abrahamic Christian perspectives here because that has been where the conversation has centered around - and it becomes unwieldy to discuss every possibility proposed by every spiritual tradition here in this conversation. It ties up and side-tracks the conversation. If we WANT to evolve it in that direction - I suppose that is fine... but I've already discussed those possibilities in broad and vague language in my expansion of why engaging in Pascal's Wager with a bet AGAINST "God" is a bad idea. 


Here is what I said today at 2:29 EDT: 


You are caught up in *theology* and not the metaphysical philosophy of a creator. 

There are infinite variables, of course, and you *could* end up screwed. But, it could be that ALL faith in *good faith* appeases an all powerful creator. Perhaps just the faith that there is something omnipotent and real is enough to get you up for consideration. Maybe good deeds do count - as long as they were done in faith of an afterlife, of a greater purpose. Maybe even the Atheist can get a break, if certain conditions are met. There is a spread on this side of the table, and the possibility of multiple winning hands. 

But the Atheist *bets* on there being NOTHING hereafter. So, if you WIN - you don't know. Your reward is ceasing to exist completely. No signal, no soul, not even darkness. Just an end to being. 

If you bet on God and lose, you just cease to exist. If you bet AGAINST God and win, you just cease to exist. 

But if you bet on God and win - you get to carry on - and if you bet on God and lose - you ALSO get to carry on - but presumably *miserable* for eternity. 

Of course, most atheists tend to be fairly miserable people. You're never the most popular people at the party - unless it is an atheist party, I suppose. But that sounds like a miserable party, itself. 

So - I suppose it is possible that you won't even notice the difference. 

The logic is sound. Betting against God in Pascal's wager is a fool's bet. 

It is coming up to a table where you place a bet and if you win, you don't get ANYTHING (literally - you get NOTHING)... and if you only find out if you DIDN'T win the bet. 

The people betting AGAINST you might lose too - but they're the only ones that get any payout if they WIN. 

Who would take that bet?!? I can't think of ANY other gamble with an arrangement like that. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Without going into specifics - that paragraph acknowledges that there are various permutations of theological and metaphysical belief in INTELLIGENT CREATION of the Universe and even states that it is possible that you could place a wager on God Exists and still get it WRONG.... I've already acknowledged that a bet on God could still be a bet on the WRONG God. 

A bet on atheism remains a bet where the payout is simply not knowing you won or lost. 

Reincarnation is a tricky one. The basic premise is that you keep getting a do-over until you get it right and achieve Nirvana. Effectively, because you're a complete reset, it is very similar to the Atheist concept of winking out - but there is a bit to that doctrine about you *actually* having the opportunity to learn from your previous life, and of there being both forward and negative possibility in each life lived - moving you up or down toward or away from Nirvana, not necessarily in a consistent or linear fashion. 

I think coming back as a choir boy would be too good for an atheist. I imagine you would come back as a televangelist - you know... something less welcome than a dung beetle.  ;) 

 

Tue Apr 27 2021 15:02:25 EDT from zooer

 

Tue Apr 27 2021 12:02:29 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

---SNIP----
But the Atheist *bets* on there being NOTHING hereafter. So, if you WIN - you don't know. Your reward is ceasing to exist completely. No signal, no soul, not even darkness. Just an end to being. 

But if you bet on God and win - you get to carry on - and if you bet on God and lose - you ALSO get to carry on - but presumably *miserable* for eternity. 
---SNIP---

 

Why is that the only choice? A religion has to have a hell?  Many religions don't have a hell, what if they are the correct religion?  What about being reincarnated?  

To say that Atheists will burn in hell for all eternity could be wrong.  What if they are just reincarnated into an alter boy?

Stop the assumption that Catholicism is the one true religion.

 



 



[#] Wed Apr 28 2021 06:40:12 EDT from Nurb432

Subject: Re: forum religion

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Or beat them in to submission?

( just kidding )

Wed Apr 28 2021 12:36:02 AM EDT from test2 Subject: forum religion

over the years I've found that forum religion is an absolutely useless endeavor. much text expended and nothing ever comes of it.  no minds changed. maybe a little info passed to friendly observers but otherwise, don't bother.  now, in person, that's another story completely.  that is where you can demonstrate the meaning of "vain" by its opposite. (vain means without power). 

 



[#] Wed Apr 28 2021 10:20:49 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: forum religion

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

I think there is simply terrible hubris on both sides of the aisle, and a desire to argue  each individual side from the point of complete rejection of the other side. 

Atheists and Theists both spend most of their time locked in a battle of trying to AVOID any decent arguments the other side makes. Theists tend to make it difficult by arguing in transparent circular arguments by offering circular logic as evidence. Atheists tend to use subtle circular logic convinced that it is scientific method - when really, it is little more than faith. 

I think there is a *lot* of evidence of Intelligent Design, immediate and more cosmic. It isn't *strong* evidence, but it isn't weak evidence either. 


One example. The whole reason that the early Church rejected heliocentric orbit was because it created a conflict that Earth was at the center of the universe, alone, unique and *special* among the heavens in God's creation. If you moved us out to a planet among many orbiting a sun that wasn't located anywhere in particular in the entire universe - it took away our special status. 

Science says that a lack of uniqueness is evidence of random creation - that is - evidence AGAINST God. 

So... they increasingly made the models more complex to account for retrograde orbit of the Planets (literally, "The Wanderers".) 

Then Copernicus and Galileo and other heliocentrists came along and blew geocentricism out of the water with a simple, elegant model that just said, "If we put Earth out here, and the Sun in the center, everything works just as observed."

Put that dude on house arrest!

NOW, today... at this very moment, we have models that say the universe should be TEEMING with life - that we should be stumbling over other societies and their signals - but when we look out into the void of the universe, it is silent. 


As if in all of creation - we're the ONLY rock out of rocks as numerous as sands on a beach where THIS has happened. This nearly infinite universe and this is the only place in it where we're certain that people argue over an Internet about God vs. Life from Random Chaos. 

In effect - we look unique, intentional... *special*. 

And to account for that - the theories have become *increasingly* complex on just why that is. We developed the idea of a Goldilocks zone, just the right distance and just the right size and just the right composition from just the right kind of sun - even though we still hold out the idea that "life may exist, far different than we know it, in VERY hostile environments." Because as a society, we're very neurotic about this. Probably for good reason - it is the one factor that at the moment has the potential for the most earth shattering, society shaking implications about our role and reason in the universe of *any* other question. 

If we could either CONFIRM other intelligent life in the universe *or* come to a strongly affirmed conclusion that it really does seem to be JUST us - it changes *everything*. Not using faith or intuition or metaphysical philosophy - but using the scientific method. 

IF absence of evidence of GOD is evidence of ABSENCE of GOD... 


Then the absence of evidence of any other life in the universe anywhere is just as strong evidence OF God. 

Now - it isn't confirmation of a Hebrew God named Jehovah/Yahweh who had a son named Jesus who died on a Cross and is the one TRUE God and that you'll go to an eternity of torment in Hell if you deny him. 

But it certainly is the first step in confirming that hypothesis if it is the one you think floats. 

What I find hilarious is this is a supported, scientific argument that is reasoned and proposes a realistic hypothesis on how we can begin to test for intelligent design in the Universe - and most atheists will flatly *deny* it while claiming they're the ones using the scientific method and that I'm the one using theological superstition to justify my sky wizard's existence. Theists don't necessarily like my explanation either - because it is more about intelligent design than a particular theist doctrine or dogma. 

Our apparent uniqueness in the universe is a troubling hole in the hypothesis of the Atheist perspective. It points to us being *special* and *intentional* - not just something that rose into such a philosophical order out of the chaos of the random soup of the universe. 

 



 

Wed Apr 28 2021 06:40:12 EDT from Nurb432 Subject: Re: forum religion

Or beat them in to submission?

( just kidding )

Wed Apr 28 2021 12:36:02 AM EDT from test2 Subject: forum religion

over the years I've found that forum religion is an absolutely useless endeavor. much text expended and nothing ever comes of it.  no minds changed. maybe a little info passed to friendly observers but otherwise, don't bother.  now, in person, that's another story completely.  that is where you can demonstrate the meaning of "vain" by its opposite. (vain means without power). 

 



 



[#] Thu Apr 29 2021 10:20:16 EDT from darknetuser

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Your response is, perhaps unintentionally - a red herring. I'm
talking about traditional Abrahamic Christian perspectives here
because that has been where the conversation has centered around -

and it becomes unwieldy to discuss every possibility proposed by
every spiritual tradition here in this conversation. It ties up and

side-tracks the conversation. If we WANT to evolve it in that
direction - I suppose that is fine... but I've already discussed
those possibilities in broad and vague language in my expansion of

why engaging in Pascal's Wager with a bet AGAINST "God" is a bad
idea. 


I think you are cheating here.

You frame the wager from a Christian point of view in order to portray it as the only reasonable course of action which it is only within an Abrahamic frame. Then somebody suggests that the wage stops being attractive when such assumptions are not taken and you say such things are out of the conversation's scope.

It could be argued that by betting on Abraham's God you are just condemmning yourself to more suffering by postponing trascendence if it turns there is any truth to Buddhism, for example.

[#] Thu Apr 29 2021 10:59:35 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

They had the obligatory keyboard in the back, but on stage they had a
glass box, with a drum kit in it...  and cooling fans for who ever

That's because the drums are too loud relative to the rest of the band. Without the screen we have to turn everyone else way up, and then the whole room is uncomfortably loud. It may be great music, but it is after all a worship service, not a stadium concert.

mmmmmmmm... pancakes

Go to page: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11