Skipping this room and coming back later. I came here because I realized it had been a while - but now I'm feeling guilty because I started writing this thing... I'll share it somewhere else - and I'm trying to commit to spend at least an hour a day writing it. That comes easy to me, if I just do it - but if I'm on here or Facebook or out smoking a cigar and letting the dogs run around while I surf FB on my phone - I'm not writing it. I should have taken a notebook out there and worked on it in the back yard earlier. Tomorrow, I guess. 

Tue Mar 10 2026 08:16:54 AM UTC from ParanoidDelusions

I'll look for the reply I deserve in >Religion. We'll see if I agree or just think you're a superchurch Christian only it it for the rock show and coffee store in the lobby. 

Heh  :)

Well, I don't know if my church could be considered a "superchurch" but we are definitely those "evangelical" types who follow neither the Catholic nor the mainline protestant traditions.  But at 200 members we can hardly be considered a "megachurch" or even a "biggachurch".  We do have coffee but it's self-serve from a Bunn machine.  As for the band ... guilty as charged, I'm the keyboard player :)

Sat Feb 14 2026 06:08:48 AM UTC from ParanoidDelusions

I'm not a "non-believer". 

I often call myself "agnostic". But that isn't even true. Agnostics and atheists always accuse me of being a theist. I pretty much believe in Jesus - in the bible, in biblical theology. I have complete faith in the Christian doctrine. Charlie Kirk - that made me recommit in a way I haven't felt connected to my faith in at least 3 decades.

I love taunting militant atheists by stating the fact that atheism is a religion.  At least the agnostics believe that they can't be sure.  Militant atheists insist that their very strong and convicted belief in the nonexistence of God is equivalent with an absence of religion, but of course it isn't.  They have a belief and they're quite sure of it.  They even persecute non-non-believers, just like the jihadists and the global warming people do.  That's a religion.

But - I think even the Bible admits that most people, even if they hear the word, even if they believe the word - will find reasons to deny it - and I may be there. If the rapture is true, if the bible-thumping Pentecostal fire-and-brimstone evangelists are right - I'm going to be here after the rapture - as an English Protestant - going - "Well, that doesn't seem right."

Eschatology != Salvation.

You've got your pre-millennials, your post-millennials, your amillennials, and whatever else is out there ... for that matter, you've got your calvinists and your armenialists and whever else ... but here's the thing about that: none of those schools of thought deny the fundamentals of the Gospel.  All who accept Christ as their lord and savior shall be saved.  There's no such thing as "Ok, the rapture is here, but you believe in a post-tribulation eschatology so you've gotta wait another thousand years."  You are either in communion with Him or you're not.

But as a Protestant - I'll go, "Well, it is probably my lot in life to continue to suffer - and all those Southern Baptist Snake Handlers having convulsions on the floor while speaking in tongues are still cultists." 

Because that is what we do, over here as English Christians. We suffer quietly, with a very hands-off relationship with God. 

The suffering in the mainline "protestant" denominations takes a different form these days, particularly in Western nations.  I'd be more worried about bona fide apostasy than about getting freaked out by gifts of the Spirit (legitimate manifestations or otherwise).  When you see a pride flag over that Episcopal church, it might as well say "Jesus isn't welcome here."  

By the way, I don't consider myself a protestant, because that implies that the roman catholic church was legitimate in the first place.  I get into arguments with militant catholics all the time about that ... they insist that their church is one and the same with the Great Commission.  It isn't.  The roman catholic "church" is merely the latter-day Roman empire masquerading as Christianity.  (I'm happy to have a discussion breaking that down a bit if anyone is interested ... particularly with Vince Q, who stopped logging in here after he died, which really sucks.)  I tell them that "apostolic succession" is a lie, and because of that, all their other arguments become self-referential, but they get stuck in cognitive dissonance and can't finish the conversation.

Ok, there you go.  Sorry it had to wait two weeks before I had the time to answer your post with the detail and consideration it deserved.

Im sure it does. On paper. Remember, anyone in power, gets to ignore the rules, its part of the deal.

Wed Dec 31 2025 13:59:53 UTC from fandarel Subject: pope

Does the celibacy thing apply to the pope too? If so, forget it, though the hats are kinda nifty. Somebody else can be pope if I can borrow the hats sometimes.

Well that is cool, can i be the noodely one by decree too?  I'm at least a registered minister, so can i simply step up and be 'it' ?

Tue Dec 30 2025 18:29:41 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

I am the real pope.  That pagan in Rome is a fake.

I am the real pope.  That pagan in Rome is a fake.

Sun Dec 28 2025 07:04:18 UTC from ParanoidDelusions

And that is all just here, on Earth - on a Universal scale - the evidence for God is stronger than the evidence AGAINST God - from any rational perspective. 

 

.... There's exactly zero of either -- because a being of the sort of the Christian "God" is simply un-possible.  There cannot be evidence for it, or against it.  

The other side, feel the exact opposite. 

Other than agnostics who just toss up their hands and wont make a choice, " i donno", there really is no middle ground. For the most part, either one does, or does not. ( not meaning to pull out Yoda, but i guess its fitting.. lol )

Sun Dec 28 2025 07:04:18 UTC from ParanoidDelusions

 

 the evidence for God is stronger than the evidence AGAINST God  

I really don't understand atheists. 

But I also don't understand people who believe mainstream academic anthropology and archeology. 

I'm not saying that fundamentalist Christian "The Earth is 4500 years old, and the dinosaurs are just the devil deceiving you," theology is correct. 

I'm saying that there is ample evidence of intelligent design and lost continuity of humanity's orthodox view of the history of mankind. 

Nah, I'm not even saying that. I'm saying that Sitchin and Van Danikin and the guy who is all Younger Dyras/Atlanis theory - some of their arguments are WAY better than mainstream academic archeology. 

None of them seem to have a lock on it. Not the Fringe Ancient Alien Astronaut guys - but certainly not the Academic Archeologists. Their shit is just... weak. "They used giant ramps and wood rollers and 20,000 slaves to build the pyramids," with a precision we couldn't match today with heavy equipment, lasers, and Ai... is CLEARLY bu

And that is all just here, on Earth - on a Universal scale - the evidence for God is stronger than the evidence AGAINST God - from any rational perspective. 

Since its the stolen season, a number of people wished my sister and i a 'merry Christmas' yesterday out in the park.  

We both are amazed how relatively intelligent people can fall for such a scam. ( the stupid, sure, understandable ) A scam that is clearly created to fleece. The entire concept falls due to logic, and of course when you call people out over simple things like "well, which version do you believe, even yours has more than one" "or how do you explain X if your god is so benevolent and all powerful",  "why is yours any better than his, do you have actual evidence"  all you get is nonsensical excuses back or just outright denial of what was just pointed out. 

No, its not meant as an insult, more that i really wish people would wake up and see the actual truth of what is going on, and not one fed to them due to fundamental insecurity of their insignificant place and value in the universe. "there has to be a greater power" ( whichever one they go with ). No, there really doesn't have to be.

And with this recent trend around these parts here, i need to start planting signs beside the 'keep Christ in Christmas' that say 'keep Saturn in Saturnalia'.    1 - if they actually believe their book, whichever version, he wasn't born in winter. 2 - Saturnalia was around before the supposed birth..  its theft.  And i thought theft was immoral. I guess not, if it serves the fleece..   Hypocritical behaviors for the win!

This was both. Full sized caskets put into a "sky box" outside.  I say that, as it was at the very top of the wall. ( 3 sections high, so without a ladder you cant visit 'it' if you want ) 

And being outside, it was dreadful. 105+ index, full sun.   I found a tree to hide under, but i wasn't able to make it the entire thing. So hot i was getting light headed. Felt like garbage the next day, had a headache for a week.  made it to where they took the temp cover off, shove the box in and put the cover back. They were going to put the stones back up too..   

Guys doing it, were not in good shape either.  Should have had some sort of tent over the area.  At the least for all the old people that show up for these things. 

Wed Aug 20 2025 00:47:00 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

 but in a wall of very small boxes instead of full size graves containing unreduced bodies.

Our area farms are being paved over for housing and warehouses and strip malls faster than you can blink.  I know i have ranted about it a few times, but really, its real and not me just exaggerating.  Even out where i grew up, all the farms just went up for sale this spring. Several thousand acres, and the county ( there is no 'town' technically, what little structure we had was 'unincorporated' so the county gets to make the decisions ) rezoned it for housing.  And since they shove houses on under 1/4 acre, or less, around here it will be thousands of houses in a couple of years.  I expect sale this fall, destruction to start next spring.  I was sort of shocked actually, drove over to the park and saw the signs. I actually yelled at the first sign.

In the town i live in now, which isn't too far away, it was considered a 'rural town' ( not country, but not suburbs ). There is zero land left as of this year. its either already been paved, or in process. It happened so fast it was frightening, and disgusting. In at least 2 cases there were some pretty good sized 'mansion' type houses with lots of land just outside of town.  They bailed at the first sign. ( they can afford it ). Land was bought, house was torn down and they put in at least 100 on the lot.   Even some of our historical farm houses.. mowed over. ( actually, they were first burnt to the ground first as 'training exercises' .  insult on injury )

Our last farmers market, is now surrounded by apartments. It will close at end of this season and become a strip mall.

I guess the one exception is one area out west of 'town' wasn't actually housing. I drove past the other day, ( i try to avoid the area as it pisses me off so much ) and it was a solar "farm".  Good luck eating from that "farm" output. Idiots.  Really glad my time here is coming to an end.

Wed Aug 13 2025 09:57:13 UTC from darknetuser

2025-08-12 20:38 from Nurb432
We care, but we dont live near you.  ( i assume :) )

You can always look around your area to try and find some fat guy who lives surrounded by horses. Even if it is not me, I am betting he would be a cool guy.

We care, but we dont live near you.  ( i assume :) )

Tue Aug 12 2025 18:17:30 UTC from darknetuser

Well, I guess I will have no ceremony or anything because nobody cares if I live or die. 15 years after I die some burglar will break into my house and find my skeleton.

At least my funeral wont be like this. I wont be having one. Not even a 'viewing'. A small pitch in lunch at the park where we grew up and that is it. Oh and bring your pets.   ( if its not been paved over yet... as mentioned all the farm around is now up for sale.  grrr )

And no burial either.  Ashes, tossed into the river. 

Oh, and if it wasn't family and friends instead, id not have flipped them the bird or said anything about what was going on.   More like "its warm in here i need to step into hallway" or "where is the restroom" something non-confrontational. 

Regardless of my personal feelings about it, I sat there politely thru the thing, so not sure what you mean by "acting like this"

I am venting later, to a unrelated crowd.  

Sat Aug 09 2025 20:10:01 UTC from SouthernComputerGeek

It was a family member and you are acting like this? Man I despise the catholic "church" with a passion but I wouldn't be acting like this.

 

It was a family member and you are acting like this? Man I despise the catholic "church" with a passion but I wouldn't be acting like this.

Sat Aug 09 2025 18:42:15 UTC from Nurb432

A Catholic funereal.

What the F...  

 

If it wasn't that it was for family and i was asked to carry the casket around , id have walked out.

A Catholic funereal.

What the F...  

If it wasn't that it was for family and i was asked to carry the casket around , id have walked out.

I of course support the witches.  What happened them was uncalled for.

Fri Jul 11 2025 13:15:18 UTC from Nurb432

Wouldn't that be a great retribution act.  All the witches stand up and burn the predators in the public square.

 

Fri Jul 11 2025 13:11:15 UTC from SamuraiCrow

 . That would be what we did to witches. 

Actually, looking at history, It's politics as usual. The vacation from it was nice though.

Wouldn't that be a great retribution act.  All the witches stand up and burn the predators in the public square.

Fri Jul 11 2025 13:11:15 UTC from SamuraiCrow

 . That would be what we did to witches. 

Thu Jul 10 2025 22:09:46 UTC from Nurb432

Church burning?  

 The true Church is not a building. It's the occupants. I hope you weren't meaning that you were burning people at the stake. That would be what we did to witches. :-O (Somehow that didn't sound as funny as I intended.)

Church burning?  

Thu Jul 10 2025 22:05:32 UTC from SouthernComputerGeek

A positive development.

 

A positive development.

Here am I, send me. 🇺🇸 pic.twitter.com/mRvL6VmGqt

— Homeland Security (@DHSgov) July 7, 2025

I was taught evolution theory in my religious private school, as well as a number of reasons why it doesn't contradict creationism. 

First: Evolution is a general term and it's description isn't what's supported by evidence. What is supported by evidence is punctuated equilibrium - There were periods of very little change and periods of rapid change. 

Second: six days of creation is six ERAS, not 6x24 hours. 

Third: the Torah (or bible) isn't a history book; it's a philosophy book, so everything in it that doesn't jibe with evidence could be there to teach a different lesson. 

In short, evolution isn't proof that the torah/bible is untrue, it's evidence that our interpretation may be incorrect.

Tue May 27 2025 16:55:52 UTC from SouthernComputerGeek

You speak as if evolution and science mean the same thing. Like you can't teach science without teaching evolution. As if teaching evolution is not teaching atheism.

 

It's one reason my parents never sent me to a public school. They did not want me being taught to be atheist, or that homosexuality is normal, or any of that BS.

Tue May 27 2025 16:52:22 UTC from Nurb432

Science and religion can co-exist. They are not mutually exclusive.

Sure, there are some places you run into issues, but just because you teach science does not mean you are teaching people not to believe how they want. Unless of course you are an authoritarian and everyone must fall in-line. 

Tue May 27 2025 16:21:15 UTC from SouthernComputerGeek

Ah yes, it's different when schools teach kids to be atheists. Wretch.

 

 

Tue May 27 2025 15:54:06 UTCfrom Nurb432

Related:  im curious, how do you square off in your tiny little mind that we find fossils of humans and other animals that are far older that whatever arbitrary 'age of earth' you believe in? Or do you just close your eyes and pretend that science isn't real?  I think your magic book says around 6k, but we have hominid fossils some 300 thousand. The oldest 'animals' go back i think around 3billion. And age of rocks, even further..  

I'm a young-Earth creationist. During the great flood of the days of Grandpa Noah, ocean currents changed on a daily, if not hourly, basis. Sediments would wash up from the South one hour and down from the North the next. After the flood waters receded, all the layers hardened at once. The reason there were less mobile species in the lower layers and more mobile species at the higher layers was that they were trying to get to higher ground but their abilities to do so varied proportionately. The proof of this occurring is that a fossilized tree stood upright long enough to be covered by multiple layers of sediment. Obviously, the top of the tree wasn't 50 million years younger than the bottom.

As for carbon dating, it's all relative to a baseline measurement. If the time guesstimates are inflated, so will the derived measurements be. The precision of the readings is also relative to the half-life of carbon-14 being measured with high enough precision.

2099522260@Uncensored

2099522123@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099522103Tue, 27 May 2025 20:01:52 -00002099522103@Uncensored

The christian crusades were not pretty either.   "thou shalt not kill" "well, unless it fits our purpose of course"

( i have heard estimates of 8 million people were killed in those.. )

Tue May 27 2025 19:31:48 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

And should i get into how much death and destruction has taken
place at the hands of people 'doing their particular gods work'.

I don't approve of islamic terrorism either.

And should i get into how much death and destruction has taken place at the hands of people 'doing their particular gods work'. It out shadows everything else evil mankind has done over its history..

just more evidence its all a fabrication to force people to conform and contribute and obey. 

It all boils down to if one can believe something without actual reproducible evidence.

If yes = then religious

if no = science

And no, even if you have a proven event in history, re-casting it to fit religious narratives does not make it 'true' by default.  There still no evidence it was due to the deity at the time.  ( which ones change over time ) And yes, i do think its all a fictional narrative. Perhaps with some history tossed in to make it sound believable to those who don't need evidence.

And i think i have stated before why i think it happened.   People believe in greater powers since they are simply not capable of dealing with the fact they are an insignificant speck in the greater universe, and to cope 'we must be part of a greater purpose'. We are not.  Then you have formal religions created by the power hungry to fleece, control, and manipulate those believers. 

Tue May 27 2025 18:48:20 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Maybe because I've heard all those arguments before and they're both boring and debunked. 

Then why was it edited and edited over the generations to fit narratives of the day?  There is a clear difference between new and old, Old was much angrier, new was much more 'palatable to the masses'. 

Just sayin..  why would truth change?

Tue May 27 2025 18:46:23 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

- it's the single most reliable source of truth available.

Still missing the point and refusing to answer my question.  

And once again, you need to look up the definitions of Atheist and Agnostic.  Or does that fall outside your programming and reading ability?

Tue May 27 2025 17:15:34 UTC from SouthernComputerGeek

And since you keep beating this horse, there is debate in Christianity about how old the Earth is. So even if the atheist estimation of its age is correct it doesn't disprove the existence of God.

And IG, how come you never seem to respond to Nurb's remarks on Christianity? I don't know how you can stomach it without at least rebutting his vile claims.

And since you keep beating this horse, there is debate in Christianity about how old the Earth is. So even if the atheist estimation of its age is correct it doesn't disprove the existence of God.

Sorry, but clearly they did.

Still avoiding the question i see. you had a chance to redeem yourself. You failed. You are a failure as a human. Since you cant even defend your imaginary constructs other than toss insults, your magic octopus also thinks you are failure and is disappointed in you too.

Tue May 27 2025 17:10:26 UTC from SouthernComputerGeek

And before you give the old "your parents brainwashed you" excuse, no, I do have a mind of my own, there are a couple of things I disagree with them on.

And before you give the old "your parents brainwashed you" excuse, no, I do have a mind of my own, there are a couple of things I disagree with them on.

Ah so your parents suck too and are also south Russian authoritarians too.  Not real surprised.    Clearly you don't even know what science was.  That is what happens when you don't go to an actual school that teaches, not programs.

And again, you refuse to answer the question.  I'm done with this thread since you cant bother to answer a simple question and instead turn it around backwards into a flag waving event..  ( tho i bet its that you cant.. dont have the brain power or knowledge to even try. typical of your kind. )

Tue May 27 2025 16:55:52 UTC from SouthernComputerGeek

You speak as if evolution and science mean the same thing. Like you can't teach science without teaching evolution. As if teaching evolution is not teaching atheism.

 

It's one reason my parents never sent me to a public school. They did not want me being taught to be atheist, or that homosexuality is normal, or any of that BS.

Tue May 27 2025 16:52:22 UTC from Nurb432

Science and religion can co-exist. They are not mutually exclusive.

Sure, there are some places you run into issues, but just because you teach science does not mean you are teaching people not to believe how they want. Unless of course you are an authoritarian and everyone must fall in-line. 

Tue May 27 2025 16:21:15 UTC from SouthernComputerGeek

Ah yes, it's different when schools teach kids to be atheists. Wretch.

 

 

You speak as if evolution and science mean the same thing. Like you can't teach science without teaching evolution. As if teaching evolution is not teaching atheism.

It's one reason my parents never sent me to a public school. They did not want me being taught to be atheist, or that homosexuality is normal, or any of that BS.

Tue May 27 2025 16:52:22 UTC from Nurb432

Science and religion can co-exist. They are not mutually exclusive.

Sure, there are some places you run into issues, but just because you teach science does not mean you are teaching people not to believe how they want. Unless of course you are an authoritarian and everyone must fall in-line. 

Tue May 27 2025 16:21:15 UTC from SouthernComputerGeek

Ah yes, it's different when schools teach kids to be atheists. Wretch.

 

Science and religion can co-exist. They are not mutually exclusive.

Sure, there are some places you run into issues, but just because you teach science does not mean you are teaching people not to believe how they want. Unless of course you are an authoritarian and everyone must fall in-line. 

Tue May 27 2025 16:21:15 UTC from SouthernComputerGeek

Ah yes, it's different when schools teach kids to be atheists. Wretch.

Because he is not an intolerant a-hole, such as yourself.

He is respectful of others who believe differently, therefore he deserves respect too.  You however, are not, so dont.

And i see you ditched the question.  Typical. 

Tue May 27 2025 16:36:54 UTC from SouthernComputerGeek

Funny how you never talk this way to IG even though he is a Christian. Are you scared of him or something?

Tue May 27 2025 15:54:06 UTC from Nurb432

Related:  im curious, how do you square off in your tiny little mind

 

Funny how you never talk this way to IG even though he is a Christian. Are you scared of him or something?

Tue May 27 2025 15:54:06 UTC from Nurb432

Related:  im curious, how do you square off in your tiny little mind

Ah yes, it's different when schools teach kids to be atheists. Wretch.

Ah, that is right. your magic octopus magically placed humans on the earth, and we are not supposed to look at science. "nooo don't look at actual facts.. must look at this manipulated book of lies! " "oh, and donate more cash"

Now, i agree about global warming as a movement, being a scam. BUT climate change does really happen, it always has, and always will.  The earth sometimes gets warmer.. earth also gets colder..  its called nature.. and we have no part in it and are just along for the ride.

Related:  im curious, how do you square off in your tiny little mind that we find fossils of humans and other animals that are far older that whatever arbitrary 'age of earth' you believe in? Or do you just close your eyes and pretend that science isn't real?  I think your magic book says around 6k, but we have hominid fossils some 300 thousand. The oldest 'animals' go back i think around 3billion. And age of rocks, even further..  

Mon May 26 2025 22:51:57 UTC from SouthernComputerGeek

What you don't understand is that the shoe is already on the other foot! Public schools teach evolution and "global warming" and the like.

 

What you don't understand is that the shoe is already on the other foot! Public schools teach evolution and "global warming" and the like.

Fri May 23 2025 20:56:44 UTC from Nurb432

Ya its always great until the shoe is on the other foot later.   Be careful what one wishes for.. you may get it.

Fri May 23 2025 17:52:41 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Once again, it sounds good when the funding is going to a religion you like, but inevitably it's going to go to one you don't like.

Imagine if that funding went to a religion whose adherents want to exterminate people like you.

 

Ya its always great until the shoe is on the other foot later.   Be careful what one wishes for.. you may get it.

Fri May 23 2025 17:52:41 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Once again, it sounds good when the funding is going to a religion you like, but inevitably it's going to go to one you don't like.

Imagine if that funding went to a religion whose adherents want to exterminate people like you.

Once again, it sounds good when the funding is going to a religion you like, but inevitably it's going to go to one you don't like.

Imagine if that funding went to a religion whose adherents want to exterminate people like you.

It was a tie vote. Hopefully Trump will get to nominate more justices, preferably from the fifth circuit.

Thu May 22 2025 16:11:53 UTC from Nurb432

"Supreme Court blocks creation of religious charter school in Oklahoma"

 

Im ok with that.  Tax payer funded schools should be teaching basic skills to be a productive member of society. Nothing more. Nothing less.

"Supreme Court blocks creation of religious charter school in Oklahoma"

Im ok with that.  Tax payer funded schools should be teaching basic skills to be a productive member of society. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I agree. 

( really, even going beyond religion i don't like the concept of 'privileged groups' at all. Sure, don't discriminate, but no one is 'special' either. )

Sat May 03 2025 16:38:58 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: funding of religious schools

If you give privilege/funding to a religion you like, you're inevitably going to be forced to give the same privilege/funding to the ones you don't like.
And so that means you don't do it. At all. For anyone.

I did not say it was constitutional did i? Its my personal opinion.  I'm not allowed to have my own opinion if it disagrees with yours?  Figures.  And forcing me to pay for this school IS a form of 'state' establishment.   

And i didn't see you respond if you support your tax dollars going to religions you arbitrarily dislike or not.

Thu May 01 2025 01:11:09 UTC from SouthernComputerGeek

 

Thu May 01 2025 00:38:26 UTCfrom ZoeGraystone

All religion should be banned and anyone who violates, turned into fertilizer.

 

I advise you to read the religion clauses in the First Amendment (emphasis added to the one your proposal violates):

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Thu May 01 2025 00:38:26 UTCfrom ZoeGraystone

All religion should be banned and anyone who violates, turned into fertilizer.

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Oh and just to be clear, i said *religion*  not *belief*

Its a ( well used to be ) a free country, so believe what you want, even tho its wrong. But if you organize, then you need eradicated as THAT is the root of evil. 

So if a Muslim oriented charter school opens next door to you, you are fine with using your tax dollars to fund it? How about a satanism school? Wicca? Celtic? How about a Atheist or Agnostic school? No, you wouldn't be. And if you claim you are, you are lying.    Nor should "churches" get tax breaks, its the same thing. MY money is funding YOUR trash.

All religion should be banned and anyone who violates, turned into fertilizer. Period. its the root of all evil. 

And if that is truly what the justice said, hes an idiot, is biased and should be removed from the bench for violation of his oath.

( and i can see why several people around here, no longer are. Its due to morons like you. )

Wed Apr 30 2025 23:44:49 UTC from ZoeGraystone

Not sure if its been ruled on, but even that it is a topic is gravely disturbing.  Supreme court is to rule on mandating tax funding of a religious school.

Do you mean this?: https://thefederalist.com/2025/04/30/supreme-court-signals-support-for-allowing-nations-first-public-religious-charter-school/

Justice Kavanaugh's argument seems solid to me:

When later questioning Gregory Garre, who argued the case on behalf of Drummond’s office, Kavanaugh suggested that the state’s exclusion of St. Isidore from the charter program “seems like rank discrimination against religion.”

“If you go and apply … to be a charter school and you’re an environmental studies school or you’re a science-based school or you’re a Chinese immersion school … you can get in. And then you come in, and you say, ‘Oh, we’re a religious school.’ It’s like, ‘Oh no, can’t do that.’ …” Kavanaugh said. “Our cases have made very clear … you can’t treat religious people and religious institutions and religious speech as second-class in the United States. And when you have a program that’s open to all comers except for religion … that seems like rank discrimination against religion, and that’s the concern that I think you need to deal with here.”

Not sure if its been ruled on, but even that it is a topic is gravely disturbing.  Supreme court is to rule on mandating tax funding of a religious school.

No. Full stop, No.  I do NOT want to pay for child indoctrination of ANY religion, especially 'only approved ones'.      Sure, lie and program your kids if you like, but not on my fraking dime.

Turn it into a museum then?

I may not agree with its underlying principles of why it exists, but i can get behind a preservation of architectural history and art sort of thing.

Fri Apr 25 2025 12:11:16 UTC from darknetuser

It would be a shame if the Vatican was overtaken, because they have lots of artistic items and buildings that pack a cultural impact.

How about just shutting it down? 

Hopefully the cardinals elect Cardinal Robert Sarah; at least then the Catholic church will not be a thorn in the side of conservatism.

Yes. However not for the same reasons you state. But same end result.

Tue Apr 22 2025 01:54:12 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

I assume you're talking about the "pope" and I agree.

 

And, nothing of value was lost.

I assume you're talking about the "pope" and I agree.

The roman catholic "church" is an insulting mockery of Christianity, and this last "pope" was a communist socialist heretic.  And a jerk.  He won't be missed.

I've heard, however, that he also packed the College of Cardinals with people just like him, so it would be ill advised to expect an improvement.  In any case, at the rate Europe is going, Rome will fall in less than 20 years, so they'd better just bulldoze the vatican before it gets repurposed by another religion.  I think they should build a nuclear power plant on the site.  

And, nothing of value was lost.

I could be mistaken, and this is just my interpretation, but i suspect the meaning behind it was more that if a all powerful deity does actually exist as some believe, if it allows the atrocities committed against many of the pets that require the need for a shelter at all, then the deity is not so 'wonderful' after all, and in fact, heartless evil incarnate themselves, and deserves no respect, let alone worship.

And while i fully admit i may have read into it due to my own biases, i happen to agree with him ( or her ).

Wed Apr 09 2025 22:13:45 UTC from Nurb432 Subject: Heartless Scumbag

Go spend the day at your local animal shelter.  Then tell me again how wonderful your imaginary all powerful magic deity is again. I dare you.

Am I allowed to take a few friends and a BBQ?  Do they have any deer there?  

Wed Apr 09 2025 22:13:45 UTC from Nurb432 Subject: Heartless Scumbag

Go spend the day at your local animal shelter.  Then tell me again how wonderful your imaginary all powerful magic deity is again. I dare you.

Now that you mention it, my ex-wife used to raise kittens for a cat rescue. Were you looking in a rear-view mirror when you called the subject "heartless scumbag"?

Wed Apr 09 2025 22:13:45 UTC from Nurb432 Subject: Heartless Scumbag

Go spend the day at your local animal shelter.  Then tell me again how wonderful your imaginary all powerful magic deity is again. I dare you.

Dude, give it a rest.

Go spend the day at your local animal shelter.  Then tell me again how wonderful your imaginary all powerful magic deity is again. I dare you.

Not really.  Regardless of my personal feelings about 'the book', consistency like that only shows that they are all repeating the same things, be it truth, manipulative lies, or totally made up fiction. It does not validate the content in any way ( or invalidate, to be fair ) 

Wed Mar 26 2025 17:15:05 UTC from SamuraiCrow Subject: RE: my magic book is better

 

Internally consistent message spanning thousands of years and 40 or so human authors confirms authenticity of the "magic" of the book.

Tue Mar 25 2025 20:49:44 UTC from darknetuser Subject: RE: my magic book is better

By the way, protestants and catholics believe in the same magic book.

Internally consistent message spanning thousands of years and 40 or so human authors confirms authenticity of the "magic" of the book. Isaiah 53 was written before the first Roman crucifixion took place but hundreds of years later, that's what happened to the messiah.

Ironically, the word "magic" was invented by engineers called "magi" in ancient Babylon who needed to maintain trade secrets in the absence of intellectual property laws. There was a group of magi that recognized Jesus as King of Kings by giving valuable gifts. The modern Christian calendar is based on that recognition and is still used by secular governments to this day.

Mon Mar 24 2025 21:34:48 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Yeah. Apparently he's out of the hospital and getting ready to do a gigantic lame duck streak of apostasy. I hope and pray that he drives many many people out of the roman catholic "church" and towards genuine Bible-believing churches.

you all have your own bible that you believe in.  what makes any one better than any other?

The power hungry never give up their power over the serfs willingly. 

Wed Feb 26 2025 14:19:25 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Why wait? He should abdicate right now.

And.... nothing of value will be lost.  Yet another example.

Best case scenario concerning the pope: He has a speedy recovery and then immediately retires.

Nurb, this is America if only the non-religious voted:

You're welcome.

Just like an abusive boyfriend, most traditional religions are.

Tue Feb 18 2025 23:54:41 UTC from darknetuser Subject: Re: One State Solution

 Bent to my Will or Burn. 

Never forget. my middle name is typo...

Sat Feb 15 2025 00:53:17 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Fallen angles? Like an obtuse that gradually gets smaller until it's an acute?

It could be somewhere in between though, right?

If im wrong, and there is something else, and they are not there. I want NO part of it.  And i will be very angry, and very vindictive.    Think the traditional fallen angles are bad, have not seen me yet.

Fri Jan 17 2025 21:15:57 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Resurrection bodies

 contemplating whether our favorite companion animals will join us on the other side of eternity.

I think you missed the reference to the Noodly One, who i happen to be an active licensed minister for.

Wed Jan 15 2025 19:21:02 UTC from Nurb432

Just as long as i get the version with the fresh beer volcano, and disease-free stripper factory.

I think the resurrection bodies, like the one Jesus was seen modelling after His own resurrection, have their own set of pleasures and pains but disease-free seems to be a likely feature. He did mention that in Heaven, people are neither married nor given in marriage so sex doesn't seem to be on the to-do list for those bodies. I doubt there'll be much dissatisfaction with them since Jesus was able to pass through a barricaded door quite effortlessly with His new body.

Just as long as i get the version with the fresh beer volcano, and disease-free stripper factory.

Sun Oct 06 2024 14:50:06 UTC from Nurb432

Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Another way of putting that is that if you DO judge, judge fairly so that when God judges you at the end, it will be judged as righteous faith. And when you pray "forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us", it will be recognized that you are passing on the justice to the Lord Himself rather than claiming your own justice.

Happy Samhain.

Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

For the first time since i was s kid and the time i burnt my hand on a hot rock ejected from a bonfire, i think im going to take Samhain off from work.  And the day after.. make it a 4 day weekend.   Oh, and the 4th. since we are off the 5th for elections..  

Go me.

The term "religious zealot", when used by atheists, basically means anyone who believes the Bible.

For those slow ones among us.

Atheism: in the broadest sense, is an absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. I.E. A fanatic, RE: Religious Zealot.

Agnostic: is a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable. I.E. A person who believes in free will and choice and requires evidence.

Religious Zealot: is a person who has very strong feelings about something (such as religion or politics) and who demands other people to have those same feelings. I.E. An oppressive fanatic who does not require evidence.

lol

Mon Jul 29 2024 22:57:49 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I frequently tell catholics that they are obligated to burn me at the stake for heresy. For some reason they never do.

</opinion ON>

Belief, is a personal thing, do it or don't, great, more power to you and you should have the right to do so. ( just don't harass or kill others that don't agree with your version ).  Even get together with your buddies to talk about the octopus if you like.    ( and ill be nice today and wont say why i think people believe in the octopus )

But this formal organized religion stuff, its a scam. Much like government, it was invented to take advantage of the situation, to fleece and control the believers, and eradicate outsiders who wont pay up.

</opinion OFF>

Sun Jul 21 2024 21:39:29 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I consider the roman catholic church to be a pagan religion masquerading as Christianity.

Can confirm, and that Vatican II was a mistake.

"I am a buttress of the Church rather a pillar; I support it from without."

Since he said 'came home from church' i was not thinking pagan or similar..   Not that i'm an expert but only christian style of virgin i know of is Mary.

Yeah I remember the Trump death squads well, I barely escaped them

Hmmm not heard that one before either. 

But with the talk of 'The virgin Mary' i could see that being a label, and not looking at the bigger picture.

Sun Jul 21 2024 13:37:30 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

 "consecreated themselves to the blessed virgin" 

Nope, i just go by the name that was new.  Doesn't change my feelings tho. 

Sun Jul 21 2024 13:31:09 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Ummm ... are you aware that he's not new here? Changed screen names recently but not new.

If they were not death squads hiding behind 'morals' ...

Sun Jul 21 2024 08:48:30 EDT from nonservator

I find whining about "traditional religion" as petty and pathetic as all the other whining from the SJW/DEI crowd.

I find whining about "traditional religion" as petty and pathetic as all the other whining from the SJW/DEI crowd.

I think since the 50s a lot of oppressed groups, including those, have made strides. ( even ones who did not choose thier path, like handicapped people ) However, for some it may be short lived as their ( un-appointed ) spokespeople are radicals, which ultimately only hurts the cause.  They end up influencing the unformed masses, thinking that the entire group are butt-head jerks, and then dislike them all when there was really no cause to do so. The backlash comes after that, and all ground made before that is lost, and sometimes, and are forcefully purged.  Now with DEI here, the backlash is going to even be worse. Its one thing with some non-representative outliers yelling and screaming, but now the government got involved, which is wrong, it will impact even those who ignored it.

Some previously oppressed and murdered groups, such as the Wiccans and pagans, ( many of my friends are ) learned this over the eons the hard way with death and suffering at the hands of 'traditional religious' people who feel they are better and must command how other people think and act, ( or they kill you ). So they have kept quiet and to themselves. In effect shown the world they are of no concern to anyone. They have their ways and dont interfere with yours. So over time, they are mostly forgotten, and no one even thinks about them so they are left alone to do their thing. And yes, that is how it should be, "ok, you are an x, ok, whatever, can you fix my car, or write this code, fly this plane, or even just make me a coffee?" Or i guess do targeted porn, if you are into that, its a pseudo-free country after all. All that should matter is what you (can) do, not what you are.

Sat Jul 20 2024 22:42:45 EDT from nonservator

Numbnuts may not be up on the latest, but as far as I can tell troons and Mooseslimes are battling it out for the top of the oppression stack, Then women are clawing back some lost ground (thanks, J. K. Rowling!), gay men next, and lesbians at the bottom because nobody cares about lesbians outside of porn stereotypes.

Numbnuts may not be up on the latest, but as far as I can tell troons and Mooseslimes are battling it out for the top of the oppression stack, Then women are clawing back some lost ground (thanks, J. K. Rowling!), gay men next, and lesbians at the bottom because nobody cares about lesbians outside of porn stereotypes.

And for the record, I live in Mississippi.

You atheists are all the same.

Sat Jul 20 2024 20:44:43 EDT from Nurb432

Ok i know i said i was done, but one last comment, then i'm done with your nonsense. 

 

2099481290@Uncensored

Ok i know i said i was done, but one last comment, then i'm done with your nonsense. 

 

2099481288@Uncensored

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

 

1 Corinthians 6:9

 

By Nurb's standard, anyone who believes the Bible is a fascist.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481286Sun, 21 Jul 2024 00:25:32 -00002099481286@Uncensored

There was a time when most Americans opposed homosexuality. Do you consider them all fascists?

Sat Jul 20 2024 20:23:55 EDT from Nurb432

You earned the label, be proud.

Sat Jul 20 2024 20:12:18 EDT from SouthernComputerGeek

Ah, yes, call me the f-word. You see, this guy IS a libtard.

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481285Sun, 21 Jul 2024 00:23:55 -00002099481285@Uncensored

You earned the label, be proud.

Sat Jul 20 2024 20:12:18 EDT from SouthernComputerGeek

Ah, yes, call me the f-word. You see, this guy IS a libtard.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481284Sun, 21 Jul 2024 00:23:06 -00002099481284@Uncensored

He was not against freedom, unlike yourself. So no, i wont call him that.

And yes, morality can change depending on which magical octopus you believe in. Some are more accepting of differences than others.

 

Sat Jul 20 2024 20:17:15 EDT from SouthernComputerGeek

 

 

Go ahead, Nurb. Call John Adams a fascist and show everyone your true colors.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481283Sun, 21 Jul 2024 00:20:32 -00002099481283@Uncensored

Actually, now that i think about more, i wonder if our new friend here, with how much he hates people that make their own choices and thinks they need to be forced to comply, is really in the middle east, and with Hamas instead. i might have the wrong part of the world and is not in southern Russia after all.  While there are some similarities with the hardcore Communists there, he does seem a bit extreme even for those Russians i do admit.  I have a few Russian friends.

And bringing this back to the topic of this room, Hamas's religion supports all that he is saying outright, and what he implies, so now i wonder if i have totally mis-judged him.

And if i'm wrong, i'm more than willing to admit i made a mistake, unlike our southernfried friend of ours. I will also apologize to the communist focused Russians out there for the poor comparison.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481282Sun, 21 Jul 2024 00:17:15 -00002099481282@Uncensored

 

 

Go ahead, Nurb. Call John Adams a fascist and show everyone your true colors.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481279Sun, 21 Jul 2024 00:13:58 -00002099481279@Uncensored

If you ever met the founders you would be calling them fascists.

Sat Jul 20 2024 19:54:30 EDT from Nurb432

Then leave, as you clearly do not support freedom. You are incompatible with the USA, liberty, and its founding father's intent. ( assuming you are even in the US. i still have my doubts, and you have not demonstrated yet i am wrong )

Sat Jul 20 2024 19:22:04 EDT from SouthernComputerGeek

The aftermath of the Supreme Court's various incorrect pro-gay decisions has made one thing clear: You cannot be pro-homosexuality and want a healthy, free society. Those two things are mutually exclusive.

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481276Sun, 21 Jul 2024 00:12:18 -00002099481276@Uncensored

Sat Jul 20 2024 19:52:32 EDT from Nurb432

2 - You keep proving my point you are a fascist.  

Ah, yes, call me the f-word. You see, this guy IS a libtard.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481271Sat, 20 Jul 2024 23:56:30 -00002099481271@Uncensored

Pro freedom is not pro x, y or z. In fact its the exact opposite.  Allowing a person to be X does not mean you are pro X. You are just pro freedom, which clearly you are not. 

 

Sat Jul 20 2024 19:22:04 EDT from SouthernComputerGeek

You cannot be pro-homosexuality and want a healthy, free society.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481270Sat, 20 Jul 2024 23:54:30 -00002099481270@Uncensored

Then leave, as you clearly do not support freedom. You are incompatible with the USA, liberty, and its founding father's intent. ( assuming you are even in the US. i still have my doubts, and you have not demonstrated yet i am wrong )

Sat Jul 20 2024 19:22:04 EDT from SouthernComputerGeek

The aftermath of the Supreme Court's various incorrect pro-gay decisions has made one thing clear: You cannot be pro-homosexuality and want a healthy, free society. Those two things are mutually exclusive.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481269Sat, 20 Jul 2024 23:52:32 -00002099481269@Uncensored

1 - i dont get mad when people like you say stupid things. But i will call you out on it.

2 - You keep proving my point you are a fascist.   You just cant let people be free to make their own decisions    ( and no i'm not talking about activists, they suck. regardless of their view. Even i agree with them, they can sit down )

3 - I bet you supported the great purge, and if you were alive then, you would be burning people along with them

Sat Jul 20 2024 19:10:02 EDT from SouthernComputerGeek

Social Conservatism causes Nurb to get mad and show us all he's a liberal.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481268Sat, 20 Jul 2024 23:49:20 -00002099481268@Uncensored

Women voting used to be illegal. So that is a invalid argument. As i have said before, just because its a law does not make it morally right.

But then again, you have shown time and time again, either we get our boots on and follow you in lock step like a good little Communist, or we somehow are inferior.  Typical Russian authoritarian attitude.

Sat Jul 20 2024 19:08:24 EDT from SouthernComputerGeek

Faggotry used to be illegal and we were still considered a free country. You are such a stupid liberal.

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481266Sat, 20 Jul 2024 23:22:04 -00002099481266@Uncensored

The aftermath of the Supreme Court's various incorrect pro-gay decisions has made one thing clear: You cannot be pro-homosexuality and want a healthy, free society. Those two things are mutually exclusive.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481263Sat, 20 Jul 2024 23:10:02 -00002099481263@Uncensored

Social Conservatism causes Nurb to get mad and show us all he's a liberal.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481262Sat, 20 Jul 2024 23:08:24 -00002099481262@Uncensored

Faggotry used to be illegal and we were still considered a free country. You are such a stupid liberal.

Sat Jul 20 2024 18:48:27 EDT from Nurb432

Its not.

And sorry that a person's choice offends you. That is what freedom is all about. Choice. 

Sat Jul 20 2024 18:43:23 EDT from SouthernComputerGeek

The current state religion is homosexuality.

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481261Sat, 20 Jul 2024 23:07:20 -00002099481261@Uncensored

The projection is strong in you.

Sat Jul 20 2024 18:48:47 EDT from nonservator

Says the biggest faggot in town. How do you do, fellow conservatives?

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481259Sat, 20 Jul 2024 22:48:47 -00002099481259@Uncensored

Says the biggest faggot in town. How do you do, fellow conservatives?

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481258Sat, 20 Jul 2024 22:48:27 -00002099481258@Uncensored

Its not.

And sorry that a person's choice offends you. That is what freedom is all about. Choice. 

Sat Jul 20 2024 18:43:23 EDT from SouthernComputerGeek

The current state religion is homosexuality.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481257Sat, 20 Jul 2024 22:43:23 -00002099481257@Uncensored

The current state religion is homosexuality.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481256Sat, 20 Jul 2024 22:41:06 -00002099481256@Uncensored

Not sure its THE .. but it is one of..

And it will stop here soon, after we are no longer a country.

Sat Jul 20 2024 18:24:34 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I would argue that the false religion of global warming is the official state religion right now, and it has to stop.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099481253Sat, 20 Jul 2024 22:24:34 -00002099481253@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099478983Thu, 04 Jul 2024 17:20:43 -00002099478983@Uncensored

Now THERE is something we all agree on!

Tue Jul 02 2024 07:08:14 EDT from Nurb432

Yep.

Mon Jul 01 2024 22:48:47 EDT from zelgomer

Get the government out of the education business, problem solved.

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099478566Tue, 02 Jul 2024 11:08:14 -00002099478566@Uncensored

Yep.

Mon Jul 01 2024 22:48:47 EDT from zelgomer

Get the government out of the education business, problem solved.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099478499Tue, 02 Jul 2024 02:48:47 -00002099478499@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099478471Mon, 01 Jul 2024 23:48:17 -00002099478471@Uncensored

Same as in the free speech arena, we will have to agree to disagree. Apparently there is no middle ground.

 

And if i still had a child in school, and they tried that there, they would be sued so fast it would make their head spin.  While technically any legal citizen could sue, with the way the courts are today, they would blow it off as 'you don't have standing' unless your kid was there. 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099478469Mon, 01 Jul 2024 23:44:04 -00002099478469@Uncensored

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" that is the religion clause in the first amendment. The motivation behind this was to prevent a state church. In other words, the primary reason this was written was to protect churches from the government.

 

Now tell me, what is the "establishment of religion" these laws respect?

Mon Jul 01 2024 19:39:14 EDT from Nurb432

huh?

Requiring the display of a single religion's teachings in a public facility, is wrong and unconstitutional. Its quite simple.

Mon Jul 01 2024 19:36:58 EDT from SouthernComputerGeek

Tell me the "establishment of religion" that these laws respect? I'll wait.

Sat Jun 22 2024 09:25:24 EDT from Nurb432

States starting to *legally demand* that the 10 commandments be prominently displayed in public school. No, i have a huge problem with that......its called brainwashing, and it violates individual's rights, and the US Constitution.. 

 

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099478457Mon, 01 Jul 2024 23:39:14 -00002099478457@Uncensored

huh?

Requiring the display of a single religion's teachings in a public facility, is wrong and unconstitutional. Its quite simple.

Mon Jul 01 2024 19:36:58 EDT from SouthernComputerGeek

Tell me the "establishment of religion" that these laws respect? I'll wait.

Sat Jun 22 2024 09:25:24 EDT from Nurb432

States starting to *legally demand* that the 10 commandments be prominently displayed in public school. No, i have a huge problem with that......its called brainwashing, and it violates individual's rights, and the US Constitution.. 

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099478456Mon, 01 Jul 2024 23:36:58 -00002099478456@Uncensored

Tell me the "establishment of religion" that these laws respect? I'll wait.

Sat Jun 22 2024 09:25:24 EDT from Nurb432

States starting to *legally demand* that the 10 commandments be prominently displayed in public school. No, i have a huge problem with that......its called brainwashing, and it violates individual's rights, and the US Constitution.. 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099477858Fri, 28 Jun 2024 19:14:51 -00002099477858@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099477408Wed, 26 Jun 2024 23:27:31 -00002099477408@Uncensored

from a purely historical / fact reference, im ok with it.   "in 1200BC, the religion of bla was created by a guy in a fedora, and they believed in Y and killed any non believers and erected these towers over there, then they died out due to religion B, offering free beer and hookers in the after life"  "now on to the next"

But not "this is the good religion and we should follow its teachings" ( even if i believed in the outcome.. still no. do that at home. )

Wed Jun 26 2024 18:35:23 EDT from darknetuser

In fact I think a good education program would contain at least some notion about the nature of the religions that kept it all together, including really sucky religions that have no place in the modern world but greatly contributed to the current state of things.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099477405Wed, 26 Jun 2024 22:35:23 -00002099477405@Uncensored 2024-06-26 18:07 from IGnatius T Foobar >Unfortunately, you're right about that. The bigger problem is that >freedom and liberty in America sort of depend upon the fact that it was >built as a Christian nation. (All the usual comments from the peanut >gallery about how the founding fathers "weren't really Christians" ... >fuck off, they totally were.) Unfortunately the rise of post-Christian >America is directly resulting in the rise of post-America America. So >if you allow Jesus in the schools you're going to get Satan and his >brothers Muhammad and Global Warming as well. > > My opinion is that religious schools have the right to exist but should not be backed with tax money. The US is an extremely young country, so the next idea might be alien, but... in some countries they have so many historical structures, relics, and infrastructure that you cannot walk two yards without running into yet another 5th Century fortress. A lot of these things are still standing becase one religious group or another has kept them for fucking centuries. Trying to disociate religion from a nation's culture is foolish when your art and architecture has been preserved by People of the Book for fucking milennia. In fact I think a good education program would contain at least some notion about the nature of the religions that kept it all together, including really sucky religions that have no place in the modern world but greatly contributed to the current state of things. What I dislike quite a lot is political powers using school centers as adoctrination workshops, and that includes religious adoctrination... but the religion that affected the area you live in deserves to be studied and often admired for what it had to offer. And yes, that sometimes means Islam. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099477398Wed, 26 Jun 2024 22:07:57 -00002099477398@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099476867Sat, 22 Jun 2024 13:25:24 -00002099476867@Uncensored

<mini-rant ON>

 

States starting to *legally demand* that the 10 commandments be prominently displayed in public school. No, i have a huge problem with that.   Government should not be pushing *any* particular religion on people, of any age. Doing it in public schools to children, its called brainwashing, and it violates individual's rights, and the US Constitution..  Other than from a historical standpoint, religion should stay at home, or your respective 'location of worship", be it a church or a tree.   Personally, i have issues with private schools doing it too, but, that is a parents choice to send them, so no worse than brainwashing them at home. BUT. they should get *zero* tax dollars, tax breaks as *I* should not be forced to fund your particular belief system. ( any more than you have to pay for mine, well if i had any )

If i had a kid in school, and in that state, they would be seeing a lawsuit from me.  Right to SCOTUS we would go.   

 

 

( this is how the FSM was born.. A public school forcing one particular belief down children's throats and one parent stood up and said "no".  in effect. )

 

</mini-rant OFF>

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099473882Fri, 31 May 2024 00:46:46 -00002099473882@Uncensored Sorry, no. If you believe the scriptures are teachings and commands >from God you cannot ignore them unless a new revelation happens >instructing you to do so. Cherry picking makes you a fake and a sucker. Correct. And that's why the very end of the Bible warns against removing from or adding to it. Fake versions of Christianity such as mormon and catholic churches have taken gross liberties with Scripture. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099472762Thu, 23 May 2024 11:53:21 -00002099472762@Uncensored

Isn't that true for many? A religion of convenience.   "ill follow what i like, and curse you for not doing it, but if i'm not fond of a part, ill just ignore that and make up an excuse"

Thu May 23 2024 06:35:30 EDT from darknetuser

I have realized many Catholics are coffee-pub Christians rather than actual Christians. 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099472753Thu, 23 May 2024 10:35:30 -00002099472753@Uncensored I am hereby declaring the papacy of Jorge Mario Bergoglio null and >void. That guy has done quite a lot to discredit the church, but then, I have realized many Catholics are coffee-pub Christians rather than actual Christians. This means they follow the rules they like only and either ignore or purposedly reject the rest. "Sure, the scriptures say homosexuality is to be rejected, but maybe it is time for the Church to evolve and advance forward." Sorry, no. If you believe the scriptures are teachings and commands from God you cannot ignore them unless a new revelation happens instructing you to do so. Cherry picking makes you a fake and a sucker. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099472556Wed, 22 May 2024 20:41:23 -00002099472556@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099471315Tue, 14 May 2024 14:04:34 -00002099471315@Uncensored

My dogs approve of that message.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099471312Tue, 14 May 2024 13:36:03 -00002099471312@UncensoredIt's just a thought experiment.  Some people believe that all >religions are equally fake.  I believe that all religions other than I believe all people are equally fake. I hold no opinion on religion one way or the other. The only thing real in this world is peanut butter. Mmmm.... peanut butter. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099471309Tue, 14 May 2024 12:50:06 -00002099471309@Uncensored

/me sticks his hands up.  lol.

While as we all here know, i dont believe ( and never will ), i do accept that many people need to believe in something better/larger than themselves due to a variety of reasons. its their brain, so their prerogative. Just dont come after me and try to force me to believe the same... ( not saying anyone here does .. just a topical statement )  But, organized religion, i will always feel that they are created to fleece and control the believers.  

 

Speaking of, around here. witnesses ( i think ) randomly setup little stands around town with books and normally 2 operators, and try to stop you as you walk past. Really uncool.  Sure, fly your flag, its a mostly free country, but dont approach me as i'm going past you.  Or come to my door, it says 'no soliciting' for a reason, and yes, regardless of what they think or say they ARE selling something.    And speaking of I need to print some FSM flyers in color, and hand them out next time i see them around. LoL. 

Mon May 13 2024 23:44:45 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

 Some people believe that all religions are equally fake. 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099471281Tue, 14 May 2024 03:44:45 -00002099471281@Uncensored

Same story told from the other side.  So perhaps Xenu is the real and living God, and L. Ron Hubbard is the bad guy, trying to convince his followers that God is the bad guy and just gave him a different name.

It's just a thought experiment.  Some people believe that all religions are equally fake.  I believe that all religions other than Christianity are equally fake.  But some fake religions are more oppressive than others.

Repent; the end is near.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099466479Mon, 29 Apr 2024 00:41:47 -00002099466479@Uncensored 2024-04-25 02:26 from IGnatius T Foobar >It would be kind of funny to imagine that Xenu is actually the real God >(for whatever value of "real God" you care to use) and that the whole >Scientology thing is just a script-flipped disinformation campaign from >the evil side. > Or Xenu is your God and Scientology was just another method for him to reach a different demographic. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099466135Thu, 25 Apr 2024 22:57:32 -00002099466135@Uncensored

More like "See you in Hell"

Thu Apr 25 2024 07:13:12 EDT from Nurb432

satan...  As hes lax "have a great time, see you in the after life",

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099466064Thu, 25 Apr 2024 11:13:12 -00002099466064@Uncensored

Sort of like the people that think 'satan' is the real god..  As hes lax "have a great time, see you in the after life", while 'god' is more like an abusive boyfriend. "do as i say, when i say, how i say, or i punish you, forever". And its all marketing from that point.

Wed Apr 24 2024 22:26:46 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

It would be kind of funny to imagine that Xenu is actually the real God (for whatever value of "real God" you care to use) and that the whole Scientology thing is just a script-flipped disinformation campaign from the evil side.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099466017Thu, 25 Apr 2024 02:26:46 -00002099466017@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099465131Fri, 19 Apr 2024 14:38:51 -00002099465131@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099464570Tue, 16 Apr 2024 21:48:25 -00002099464570@Uncensored

Well, i guess Noah sort of had one...  ( according to the story )

Tue Apr 16 2024 13:20:43 EDT from LoanShark

... what does God need with a starship?

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099464552Tue, 16 Apr 2024 20:54:54 -00002099464552@Uncensored ... what does God need with a starship? God and his buddy Xenu are going to use the starship to scuttle all of the troublemakers. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099464473Tue, 16 Apr 2024 17:20:43 -00002099464473@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099389812Sat, 06 Apr 2024 20:12:49 -00002099389812@Uncensored

"the eclipse is a sign from god"

Um, wouldn't a 'sign from god' be a bit less scientifically predicable? 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099370615Fri, 08 Dec 2023 14:50:52 -00002099370615@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099370586Thu, 07 Dec 2023 23:50:09 -00002099370586@Uncensored I've triple checked my Bible , and in all four gospels it is clear: >Christ was crucified by the Roman Empire. You know the Roman Empire, >the group that still exists today, but now it calls itself the Roman >Catholic Church and is masquerading as Christianity. I don't really have a dog in this race, but as I understood it, Pilate was just trying to placate a mob. He offered them Jesus or Barabus, a murderer, and the mob chose to let Barabus go free and crucify Jesus. That's where the "Christ Killers" stuff comes from. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099370551Thu, 07 Dec 2023 17:38:24 -00002099370551@Uncensored

Thankfully not in my 'circle'. ( or they would most likely be kicked out of it.. ).  We all know my feelings about the subject, but i still support their right to believe that way, since its not 'against' people who dont. ( unlike some religions )

However, i had one of my favorite cousins ( who is liberal, that side of the family tended to be ) question some of the reports about the abuse of women by Hamas.  "if it was real, why didnt didnt the guy step in and stop it"...  Not that she is supporting Hamas, but seems to be falling for the anti Israel propaganda..

 

Thu Dec 07 2023 11:41:26 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

There sure is a lot of antisemitism being blasted all over the place right now. Some of it even comes from people who ought to know better. It's getting intolerable.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099370541Thu, 07 Dec 2023 16:41:26 -00002099370541@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099367406Mon, 23 Oct 2023 23:51:52 -00002099367406@Uncensored Science That's the truth. If God and Science disagree, Science made a mistake. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099367343Sun, 22 Oct 2023 20:43:35 -00002099367343@Uncensored

Yes.

I think you would like most scientists, the one that just go in every day and do their job, and dont go all political on things. 

Sun Oct 22 2023 12:43:38 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Regardless of that, can we just all agree that Neil d. Tyson is a monumental asshole?

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099367336Sun, 22 Oct 2023 16:43:38 -00002099367336@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099367193Thu, 19 Oct 2023 16:54:03 -00002099367193@Uncensored

lol

Thu Oct 19 2023 12:16:23 EDT from nonservator

Obviously you're one of those Nazis who doesn't heckin' love science.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099367189Thu, 19 Oct 2023 16:16:23 -00002099367189@Uncensored

Obviously you're one of those Nazis who doesn't heckin' love science.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099367177Thu, 19 Oct 2023 13:26:41 -00002099367177@Uncensored

I try not to be that way personally. I only want hard logical experiments that can be independently replicated. 

Else, its just theory.

Thu Oct 19 2023 09:10:00 EDT from nonservator

Science is God until it conflicts with your personal prejudices, preconceived notions and financial incentives.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099367174Thu, 19 Oct 2023 13:10:00 -00002099367174@Uncensored

Science is God until it conflicts with your personal prejudices, preconceived notions and financial incentives.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099367165Thu, 19 Oct 2023 11:07:16 -00002099367165@Uncensored

And, cant provide evidence via scientific method. 

Wed Oct 18 2023 21:22:59 EDT from nonservator

Broadest definition I'd accept: Whatever people define as sacred and profane.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099367151Thu, 19 Oct 2023 01:22:59 -00002099367151@Uncensored

Broadest definition I'd accept: Whatever people define as sacred and profane.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099367147Thu, 19 Oct 2023 00:08:56 -00002099367147@Uncensored However it does raise an interesting question: what *do* you consider >a "religion"? Honest answer. I believe religion is OG politics. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099366995Tue, 17 Oct 2023 11:03:09 -00002099366995@Uncensored

Don't forget Twitter, and MSM... ( and the DNC )

Mon Oct 16 2023 23:31:18 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I blame Facebook, of course.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099366985Tue, 17 Oct 2023 03:31:18 -00002099366985@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099364421Thu, 21 Sep 2023 20:38:15 -00002099364421@Uncensored

I 2nd that. 

Wed Sep 20 2023 22:52:00 EDT from zelgomer

Since I posted it in two other rooms, I might as well post it here, too. It is a religion, after all. Systemd sucks.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099364247Thu, 21 Sep 2023 02:52:00 -00002099364247@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099363719Mon, 18 Sep 2023 11:39:33 -00002099363719@Uncensored

lol

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099363658Mon, 18 Sep 2023 00:34:26 -00002099363658@UncensoredBelieve whatever you want.  This is a place to talk about >religiosity, not proselytize to others about your imaginary magic sky >friend. Imaginary magic sky friend? You mean the global warming demon? Yeah, I hate him too. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099363657Mon, 18 Sep 2023 00:33:46 -00002099363657@Uncensoredyou guys have been around the sun way to many times to be still >blaming god for what the devil does. carnal smarts do not equal >wisdom. free will means you really must have a choice to make. the Thank you test2 for speaking the truth. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. God gave us free will. Sometimes your free will crashes into someone else's free will, and the results are unpleasant. Spiritual warfare is real. Demons will absolutely kick your ass if you try to mess with them yourself. The good news is that they MUST leave when dismissed in Jesus's name. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099362360Thu, 14 Sep 2023 04:26:52 -00002099362360@Uncensored

get it right, it's sky daddy. you're much younger that the rest here.

 

https://youtu.be/W2msh0jut2Y?si=LgffV9E9Z9zCKI3N

 

you gots some demons that need kicking out. heylel's got your tail.  sorry you've been so tormented.

 

Wed Sep 13 2023 02:14:01 AM EDT from LadySerenaKitty

To quote Sir Sic - "God doesn't real."

God is fake.  Lucifur is fake.  Jesus never lived.  All organized religion does is spread lies and falsehoods, creating false hope.  Praying doesn't do shit.  If you want shit done, do it yourself (or hire someone to do it).

You are the architect of your destiny.  Every choice you have made in your entire life has lead you to this point.  I don't believe in anything anymoar.  I trust facts that can be tested and confirmed.  No faith here.  Given how my life has gone and the struggles I has faced, I am happy with where I am right meow.

Believe whatever you want.  This is a place to talk about religiosity, not proselytize to others about your imaginary magic sky friend.

Wed Sep 13 2023 01:56:05 EDT from test2

you guys have been around the sun way to many times to be still blaming god for what the devil does. carnal smarts do not equal wisdom. free will means you really must have a choice to make. the demonic is real and they's still kicking your butts. - you believing their lies. reality= you live on a demon infested rock and they have the upper hand- until - *you* make a decision.  choose wisely every day. god already made his move, he's waiting for you to make your move. till then - happy ass kicking. they don't teach you this in church, because it's a business. it's exactly why jesus hated religion and beat the cheats with whips- because the cheats liked their cheats. at least you and jesus are like minded in this respect.

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099362312Thu, 14 Sep 2023 00:00:41 -00002099362312@Uncensored

But then again, anyone remember the book "The Necronomicon' that came out in 1980?  

It was taken as gospel in that world for a long time. Across the planet.  Even had 3rd party verification.  Until one day the 'owner' ( Simon, pen name, i forget his real name ) stepped up, "ya, its all fake, i made it up, its just a story"... "lol".  But some people still believe it and find references to verify their belief.  Sounds familiar ... 

looked online for the date, as i forget now.. been to long ( March 1 1980 ) and I guess its still being sold.. geez   Not sure if its still in print tho.    

 

( side note, i was a kid and like many my age during that time, i was into that stuff then, and even to me just 'read' like fiction. Cool fiction for that genre, but still, fiction. Just recently i finally tossed my paperback copy. Found it in the bottom of a box of other books..I never did get the super expensive cool carved leather edition. )

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099362310Wed, 13 Sep 2023 23:50:36 -00002099362310@Uncensored

i do to lean towards that as well. Enough cross-history stories to say he existed as a human. While the stories are greatly embellished of course to fit the narrative, i doubt they all would lie about the person's existence, especially back then as it would be really hard to coordinate.  

Now, the supposed links to the magic octopus, that is more easily dismissed.

Wed Sep 13 2023 19:14:26 EDT from darknetuser

I dare say lots of scholars agree that Jesus existed as an actual historical individual. Whether he was divine or not is the question of faith.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099362299Wed, 13 Sep 2023 23:14:26 -00002099362299@UncensoredGod is fake.  Lucifur is fake.  Jesus never lived.  All organized I dare say lots of scholars agree that Jesus existed as an actual historical individual. Whether he was divine or not is the question of faith. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099362104Wed, 13 Sep 2023 11:19:20 -00002099362104@Uncensored

Sorry, didnt mean to start anything here.  Was just somewhat dark-amused at the sign as it flew past. Personally i say none of it is real, just that they were believers, yet they look up to such a cruel entity..

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099362031Wed, 13 Sep 2023 06:14:01 -00002099362031@Uncensored

To quote Sir Sic - "God doesn't real."

God is fake.  Lucifur is fake.  Jesus never lived.  All organized religion does is spread lies and falsehoods, creating false hope.  Praying doesn't do shit.  If you want shit done, do it yourself (or hire someone to do it).

You are the architect of your destiny.  Every choice you have made in your entire life has lead you to this point.  I don't believe in anything anymoar.  I trust facts that can be tested and confirmed.  No faith here.  Given how my life has gone and the struggles I has faced, I am happy with where I am right meow.

Believe whatever you want.  This is a place to talk about religiosity, not proselytize to others about your imaginary magic sky friend.

Wed Sep 13 2023 01:56:05 EDT from test2

you guys have been around the sun way to many times to be still blaming god for what the devil does. carnal smarts do not equal wisdom. free will means you really must have a choice to make. the demonic is real and they's still kicking your butts. - you believing their lies. reality= you live on a demon infested rock and they have the upper hand- until - *you* make a decision.  choose wisely every day. god already made his move, he's waiting for you to make your move. till then - happy ass kicking. they don't teach you this in church, because it's a business. it's exactly why jesus hated religion and beat the cheats with whips- because the cheats liked their cheats. at least you and jesus are like minded in this respect.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099362030Wed, 13 Sep 2023 05:56:05 -00002099362030@Uncensored

you guys have been around the sun way to many times to be still blaming god for what the devil does. carnal smarts do not equal wisdom. free will means you really must have a choice to make. the demonic is real and they's still kicking your butts. - you believing their lies. reality= you live on a demon infested rock and they have the upper hand- until - *you* make a decision.  choose wisely every day. god already made his move, he's waiting for you to make your move. till then - happy ass kicking. they don't teach you this in church, because it's a business. it's exactly why jesus hated religion and beat the cheats with whips- because the cheats liked their cheats. at least you and jesus are like minded in this respect.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099361393Mon, 11 Sep 2023 23:45:42 -00002099361393@Uncensored

lol

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099361370Mon, 11 Sep 2023 22:29:26 -00002099361370@Uncensored

Darn that pesky problem of evil. If only we still had Google to tell us what wasn't evil.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099361348Mon, 11 Sep 2023 21:34:23 -00002099361348@UncensoredReally? You mean you trust the god that let upwards of 10 million die >in the holocaust? ( perhaps 1/2 of that devote followers ) . Or got a >burr and flooded the entire planet, perhaps killing billions of >humans and trillions of animals? Or countless other mass events.. > >The one that allowed my young cat to get an incurable infection and >die at 4?  And a few personal stories i wont repeat here. > Sorry about your cat. If I were a religious person I would tell you that God did take your cat at 4, but also gave you 4 years with him. I have had dogs die before their first birthday. I have had foals die at 1. It sucks when they go early, but still such short time was a gift. (I am not argung about God causing catastrophes, because most people is evil, so causing catastrophes in spades and killing people counts as a good thing more often than not). ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099361191Mon, 11 Sep 2023 11:13:52 -00002099361191@Uncensored

Asked, and answered.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099361155Mon, 11 Sep 2023 02:05:56 -00002099361155@Uncensored

What Nurb said are just the claw of the iceberg into why I don't do religiosity.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099361146Sun, 10 Sep 2023 23:26:20 -00002099361146@Uncensored

So on my walk with one of the dogs tonight, our local fire truck went by.  On the back it has a sign ' in god we trust'.

Really? You mean you trust the god that let upwards of 10 million die in the holocaust? ( perhaps 1/2 of that devote followers ) . Or got a burr and flooded the entire planet, perhaps killing billions of humans and trillions of animals? Or countless other mass events..

The one that allowed my young cat to get an incurable infection and die at 4?  And a few personal stories i wont repeat here.

That god?

ya. No thanks.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099350984Sat, 22 Jul 2023 13:55:03 -00002099350984@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099350275Sat, 15 Jul 2023 00:25:20 -00002099350275@Uncensored

I completely get why so many kids now are LARPing faith until they make it.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099350264Fri, 14 Jul 2023 23:02:35 -00002099350264@Uncensored

Oh and forgot in the winter i wear a small gold broach thingie. i wear it on my fleece hoodie where the lining is almost the same color, so that only people in the know would even notice. 

I have had 3 people notice and give me the normal greeting over the years.  ( either yarrr or ra-man )

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099350263Fri, 14 Jul 2023 22:59:06 -00002099350263@Uncensored

Right. I am ordained by them, but not my house. Have been for many years. I actually carry the card with me daily.  Why i have no freaking clue, but i do :)

I got one of the new coins that came out with the new format certs and cards ( got one of them too for the hell of it )

 

Fri Jul 14 2023 05:52:49 PM EDT from LadySerenaKitty

To have your house counted as a church, you need a third party religious organization to have that address as an official church location.

With Pastafarianism, you can have your address ordained for $59.  You even get a Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster ID card as part of the Ordination Package.

 

Wow, the bar to become tax-exempt for religious purposes as really come down, almost to ant level.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099350258Fri, 14 Jul 2023 21:52:49 -00002099350258@Uncensored

To have your house counted as a church, you need a third party religious organization to have that address as an official church location.

With Pastafarianism, you can have your address ordained for $59.  You even get a Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster ID card as part of the Ordination Package.

 

Wow, the bar to become tax-exempt for religious purposes as really come down, almost to ant level.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099350248Fri, 14 Jul 2023 20:18:33 -00002099350248@Uncensored

Ultimately that is me. 

Tho, i do feel "church" should be paying tax like the rest of us. I know why they dont, but those days are gone.   I was going to register my house as FSM church. Use the system.

Thu Jul 13 2023 05:12:27 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Atheism IS a religion

Absence of religion would be "I don't really care"

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099350130Thu, 13 Jul 2023 21:12:27 -00002099350130@UncensoredPutting aside for a moment i'm a legally ordained minister in the >church of the flying spaghetti monster, i would qualify as 'absence >of religion'. But then again, i dont qualify as militant.  Absence of religion would be "I don't really care" A position of "There is absolutely no possibility God exists and I will torment anyone who disagrees with me" is very much a religion. That's sort of the point. Militant atheists are some of the most religious people out there. Worse, the people who follow the religion of Militant Atheism believe (incorrectly) that they lay the sole claim to Science. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099350118Thu, 13 Jul 2023 18:56:44 -00002099350118@Uncensored

I too grew up in the 80s, and it not only took me a long time to find exceptions to that rule, I continued to run into them even more in the 90s, and to a lesser extent up until medical legalization started to take hold in more than one state.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099350069Thu, 13 Jul 2023 11:58:04 -00002099350069@Uncensored

When i grew up in the 80s, we didnt do that. Not that i participated in the weed being passed around ( really, i had bronchitis since i was born and i like to be able to breathe so never even had an interest in it. When you are 5 and cant breathe short of leaning over the kitchen counter and drinking yellow goo, its some scary stuff you never forget ) but everyone just sat around and blabbed about 'stuff'.  Even if it was acid night or a drinking night. Was never about 'the stuff' it was about 'stuff'

Perhaps we were different? 

Thu Jul 13 2023 05:54:19 AM EDT from nonservator Subject: Re: Atheism IS a religion

One of the best things about legalization of marijuana is that fewer people now treat it like a religion. When they get together, they get high, and then they do and talk about other things, instead of spending all their time talking about getting high and how great it is and what the best way is to get high.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099350057Thu, 13 Jul 2023 09:54:19 -00002099350057@Uncensored

One of the best things about legalization of marijuana is that fewer people now treat it like a religion. When they get together, they get high, and then they do and talk about other things, instead of spending all their time talking about getting high and how great it is and what the best way is to get high.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099350001Wed, 12 Jul 2023 22:43:13 -00002099350001@Uncensored

Putting aside for a moment i'm a legally ordained minister in the church of the flying spaghetti monster, i would qualify as 'absence of religion'. But then again, i dont qualify as militant. 

Wed Jul 12 2023 05:07:48 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Atheism IS a religion

Here's an excellent article describing why atheism is a religion.
[ https://creation.com/atheism-a-religion ]

I make these points all the time. Atheism, at least militant atheism, is absolutely not the same thing as absence of religion.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099349986Wed, 12 Jul 2023 21:07:48 -00002099349986@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099334231Wed, 12 Apr 2023 13:51:05 -00002099334231@UncensoredHe kissed a young boy on the mouth, stuck out his tongue and told the >kid to suck it. I wonder if he's vying for a development deal with Disney. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099334124Tue, 11 Apr 2023 18:21:59 -00002099334124@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099334118Tue, 11 Apr 2023 17:32:11 -00002099334118@Uncensored

I hate to repeat it.. its disgusting.

He kissed a young boy on the mouth, stuck out his tongue and told the kid to suck it.

Tue Apr 11 2023 12:34:44 PM EDT from darknetuser

2023-04-11 12:17 from Nurb432
So the Dalai Lama Apologizes and that makes it all better.  ya. 

What did he apologize for?

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099334114Tue, 11 Apr 2023 16:34:44 -00002099334114@Uncensored 2023-04-11 12:17 from Nurb432 >So the Dalai Lama Apologizes and that makes it all better.  ya.  What did he apologize for? ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099334108Tue, 11 Apr 2023 16:17:19 -00002099334108@Uncensored

So the Dalai Lama Apologizes and that makes it all better.  ya. 

 

And people wonder why i dislike organized religions and think they are a scam..  Not that im a fan of 'faith' in general as you all know, but that is a personal choice and i do believe in freedom. However I do think organized religions are evil, created to prey on the believers. )

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099329034Tue, 07 Mar 2023 18:57:09 -00002099329034@Uncensored

People are dumb.

You must conform to their world view or  you are a *insert random derogatory term they dont understand here* and must be suppressed.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099329032Tue, 07 Mar 2023 18:40:46 -00002099329032@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099328290Wed, 01 Mar 2023 22:15:33 -00002099328290@Uncensored

Cool, according to the church website there are 175 fellow pastafarians in my area

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099320451Tue, 20 Dec 2022 16:15:36 -00002099320451@Uncensored

Or, piss them all off

 

2099320433@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099319590Mon, 12 Dec 2022 12:10:07 -00002099319590@Uncensored

:)

Mon Dec 12 2022 02:09:10 AM EST from LadySerenaKitty

 

Corrections: Catsmas, Meowlloween

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099319570Mon, 12 Dec 2022 07:09:10 -00002099319570@Uncensored

 

Sun Dec 11 2022 16:08:02 EST from Nurb432

Saw a couple of signs today while out and about  "put Christ back into Christmas".  How easily people have forgotten that Christians stole the holiday form the Pagans in the first place, to push their religion..    If we want to be honest lets put the "solstice back"

And dont get me started on Halloween... 

Corrections: Catsmas, Meowlloween

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099319555Sun, 11 Dec 2022 21:08:02 -00002099319555@Uncensored

Saw a couple of signs today while out and about  "put Christ back into Christmas".  How easily people have forgotten that Christians stole the holiday form the Pagans in the first place, to push their religion..    If we want to be honest lets put the "solstice back"

And dont get me started on Halloween... 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099310691Thu, 15 Sep 2022 21:35:56 -00002099310691@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099309087Sat, 27 Aug 2022 17:09:46 -00002099309087@Uncensored

I think we are heading for a time where certain religions are not going to allow you to not believe something. Christianity got that out of its system some time ago via Catholicism, but there is a younger religion that is fond of killing infidels. 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099306409Sat, 23 Jul 2022 17:17:36 -00002099306409@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099306166Tue, 19 Jul 2022 20:43:51 -00002099306166@Uncensored

I have a couple of friends who are diametrically apposed in our opinions on several things. We just know not to poke each other there, and enjoy the common parts.

When people i know ask me about my FSM pin in the winter ( i wear it on my fleece hoodie i wear 3/4 of the winter, until it gets down below 20 ), "its an alternative religion, you would not be interested" and we move on to other topics.

 

Tho i have had a few people yell 'raman' at me, and cover one eye, so i'm not alone :)

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099306156Tue, 19 Jul 2022 17:33:38 -00002099306156@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099293833Mon, 28 Feb 2022 12:11:33 -00002099293833@Uncensored

We just give out free beer hookers.. Oh wait, that is after you die. Never mind, here, have a plate of pasta.  He boiled for your sins.

Mon Feb 28 2022 01:32:25 AM EST from test2

heal the sick.  

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099293811Mon, 28 Feb 2022 06:32:25 -00002099293811@Uncensored

heal the sick.  I recall that in the bible somewhere.  Your church might need to do some research on that "healing" stuff.  seems like the coof pretty much revealed all the unbelievers. maybe a disciple training program where people are taught the basics, then shown how to do it where they can participate and witness miracles.  That pretty much makes real believers who don't get all stupid.   you might be hanging with the baby crowd in a church that fosters knowledge over obedience. obedience grows faith.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099293769Sun, 27 Feb 2022 19:33:29 -00002099293769@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099292157Mon, 14 Feb 2022 18:25:04 -00002099292157@Uncensored All I can think of is, "Where the heck are t hese guys investing that >they're getting a 100% ROI?" > One of my part-time business actually has a 150% ROI. I am not sharing which is it because then you will show up and compete with me :) The only reason why I am not rich is because there is not enough market to gain a big volume of customers. So you get a nice ROI but not a lot of money in absolute terms. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099292061Mon, 14 Feb 2022 00:37:29 -00002099292061@Uncensored

Drug dealers do. 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099292029Sun, 13 Feb 2022 21:01:42 -00002099292029@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099283797Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:07:57 -00002099283797@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099282692Wed, 17 Nov 2021 23:19:39 -00002099282692@Uncensored

He wont but i would :P 

Just kidding tho on asking, i dont need any bourbon :)

Mon Nov 15 2021 11:20:59 AM EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Somehow I doubt that you'd be willing to give me your physical address even if I wanted to send you a bottle.

When it comes to bourbon ... my favorite is Booker's. It's unfiltered and makes your socks roll up and down when you drink it, but damn is it good.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099282567Tue, 16 Nov 2021 15:33:57 -00002099282567@Uncensored 2021-11-15 11:20 from IGnatius T Foobar >Somehow I doubt that you'd be willing to give me your physical address >even if I wanted to send you a bottle. > > When it comes to bourbon ... my favorite is Booker's. It's unfiltered >and makes your socks roll up and down when you drink it, but damn is it >good. > > I am afraid my location is not up for disclosure. Besides, it may be beyond your ability to ship to if for an affordable price. The bourbon I most often have is whitelabel from local markets. Many of the white labels are actually very good for the price. Besides, most of them sport my favourite pet on the label. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099282452Mon, 15 Nov 2021 16:20:59 -00002099282452@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099282444Mon, 15 Nov 2021 15:57:27 -00002099282444@Uncensored 2021-11-11 13:35 from IGnatius T Foobar > > I am sure IG has a stash of Canadian Whiskey in his basement and > >spends his time making offers people can't refuse. > > I am offering you a glass of whiskey. > > Do you have any plan to deliver it? Actually, I am a sucker for cheap Kentucky Bourbon. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099282150Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:35:51 -00002099282150@Uncensored I am sure IG has a stash of Canadian Whiskey in his basement and >spends his time making offers people can't refuse. I am offering you a glass of whiskey. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099281377Tue, 02 Nov 2021 22:45:02 -00002099281377@Uncensored

Evidently to Italians, she is irresistible. 

Mon Nov 01 2021 09:41:37 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I'd probably just assume you would blatantly hit on my wife right in
front of me. :) 

Is she hot?

hehe

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099281317Tue, 02 Nov 2021 10:26:34 -00002099281317@Uncensored 2021-10-30 11:46 from IGnatius T Foobar >The truth is, stereotypes come into existence for a reason. If a large >number of X is seen being Y, it will create a stereotype. And that's >ok. It doesn't mean we're going to assume "all X are Y" and it >certainly doesn't mean "we hate X because Y". As an Italian-American I >have had people assume that I am associated with the mafia. I think >it's kind of funny, actually. > > You know what they say. If somebody says he is Mafia, he isn't. I am sure IG has a stash of Canadian Whiskey in his basement and spends his time making offers people can't refuse. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099281264Mon, 01 Nov 2021 16:11:21 -00002099281264@Uncensored

Right, who do you think we ( mafia ) are, heathens? No, we are civilized and have a code. 

Mon Nov 01 2021 12:02:15 PM EDT from LoanShark

Gotta give fair warning.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099281262Mon, 01 Nov 2021 16:02:15 -00002099281262@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099281261Mon, 01 Nov 2021 16:01:11 -00002099281261@Uncensoredhave had people assume that I am associated with the mafia. I think >it's kind of funny, actually. You're associated with ME. And you'd better repay that loan or it's cement running shoes ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099281249Mon, 01 Nov 2021 14:07:19 -00002099281249@Uncensored

lol

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099281243Mon, 01 Nov 2021 13:41:37 -00002099281243@UncensoredI'd probably just assume you would blatantly hit on my wife right in >front of me. :)  Is she hot? hehe ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099281127Sat, 30 Oct 2021 21:29:27 -00002099281127@Uncensored

I'd probably just assume you would blatantly hit on my wife right in front of me. :) 

Sat Oct 30 2021 11:46:49 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

The truth is, stereotypes come into existence for a reason. If a large number of X is seen being Y, it will create a stereotype. And that's ok. It doesn't mean we're going to assume "all X are Y" and it certainly doesn't mean "we hate X because Y". As an Italian-American I have had people assume that I am associated with the mafia. I think it's kind of funny, actually.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099281100Sat, 30 Oct 2021 16:07:24 -00002099281100@Uncensored

You aren't?

 

:) 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099281094Sat, 30 Oct 2021 15:46:49 -00002099281094@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099278545Tue, 28 Sep 2021 20:07:39 -00002099278545@Uncensored

Not all *everyone* is the way we think *everyone* like that is. 

The question becomes, are a significant portion of *some* of them that way? Enough that it is a problem? 


When a subset of 15% of the population is responsible for more than 50% of the violent crime including murder, rape, theft, and other criminal activities - does it become fair to assume that people from that 15% group, especially ones who look *like* the subset of that 15% minority - are potentially criminal? That isn't *racism*. That is a prudent conclusion. 

I mean - just because SOME white men *can* dance, doesn't mean that white folks aren't generally shittier dancers that you encounter in other ethnic groups. 

Likewise - there are a lot of atheists screwing up the perception for the rest of them currently. It didn't used to be that way. But the voice of the militant and extreme branch of atheism currently drowns out the more traditional atheist voice. 

Sun Sep 26 2021 17:00:32 EDT from Nurb432

Not all are that way.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099278458Mon, 27 Sep 2021 11:43:59 -00002099278458@Uncensored

NAXALT is always true and always irrelevant.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099278431Sun, 26 Sep 2021 21:00:32 -00002099278431@Uncensored

Not all are that way.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099278429Sun, 26 Sep 2021 20:19:41 -00002099278429@Uncensored

This is because ATHEISM IS A RELIGION.   It is a religion whose militants are more abusive than any other religion except perhaps Islam.  And that may only be a temporary situation, because there are atheist fundies who *would* go around killing heretics if they could.

Militant atheists HATE being told that atheism is NOT the same thing as absence of religion.  Make sure you remind them of that as often as possible.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099277973Tue, 21 Sep 2021 02:14:01 -00002099277973@Uncensored

Oh yeah, Atheists are the *worst* about witnessing their (un)faith these days, and in the same, in your face, aggressive, YOU MUST AFFIRM MY BELIEFS sort of desperate way as evangelists. Without irony. 

Mon Sep 20 2021 12:20:15 EDT from nonservator

Just like I used to assume all theists were crazy fundies, I now assume all atheists are le modern enlightened perfectly rational types who I would rather be vivisected than spend one minute hearing them speak at me.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099277897Mon, 20 Sep 2021 17:13:44 -00002099277897@Uncensored

And must be the season or something, just got a handwritten letter from some person one town over ( that i dont know, assuming they just read the stuff at the city to see who lives where. its public record ), 'come to jesus' or some such nonsense.  I didnt read it.  At least hes not going door to door like the kids were, and did take the time to write the letter. ill give him that much credit.. as i put the letter in the trash can.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099277896Mon, 20 Sep 2021 17:11:20 -00002099277896@Uncensored

Now, while i disagree with their conclusion about life and the universe and everything, i dont think all believers are nutjobs.

BUT the ones that come to my house to try to convert me, yes, those are.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099277890Mon, 20 Sep 2021 16:20:15 -00002099277890@Uncensored

Just like I used to assume all theists were crazy fundies, I now assume all atheists are le modern enlightened perfectly rational types who I would rather be vivisected than spend one minute hearing them speak at me.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099277878Mon, 20 Sep 2021 13:08:05 -00002099277878@Uncensored

I'm thinking of wearing my FSM T-shirt and a AR-15 pistol around my shoulder, and putting loud porn on the tv in the background. ( if i had a pistol that is, you know, the boating accident )

This is a stand your ground state.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099277871Mon, 20 Sep 2021 12:31:16 -00002099277871@Uncensored

Next time they show up, I'll be honest and tell them Vatican II was a mistake.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099277864Mon, 20 Sep 2021 10:47:23 -00002099277864@Uncensored

Unsure the group, but a friend of mine let them in her house once. Led them to the dining room, which she had made up as a sacrificial altar, complete with fake baby in the middle.  They never returned. Even avoided walking in front of her house.

I dont care who they are or what they believe, they all need to follow the law and read the signs.  And stay the hell off my property.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099277843Mon, 20 Sep 2021 05:00:25 -00002099277843@Uncensored

Mormons do missionaries. Christians and JWs witness. I'm not sure I've ever had a 7th day adventist show up at my door. Mormons come in pairs on bikes. JWs generally come in 4s, and often it is two men and two women, and at least one of them is black. 

The JWs are the worst. I've answered the door wearing a Venom shirt and told them I couldn't talk right now, we were in the middle of black mass - and they asked when a good time to come back would be and gave me a copy of their magazine, anyhow. 

Sun Sep 19 2021 10:03:13 EDT from Nurb432

Supposedly they were mormons i guess instead of witnesses.  We have both down here, they are all the same to me. Wackjobs that use kids to do their dirty work.  I was complaining/warning in our local FB group here ( its useful for stuff like that ) and someone said witnesses were told not go out due to covid but mormons do, and my description was more like them.

Either way, they were knowingly breaking the law and being rude by not following my sign. 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099277780Sun, 19 Sep 2021 14:03:13 -00002099277780@Uncensored

Supposedly they were mormons i guess instead of witnesses.  We have both down here, they are all the same to me. Wackjobs that use kids to do their dirty work.  I was complaining/warning in our local FB group here ( its useful for stuff like that ) and someone said witnesses were told not go out due to covid but mormons do, and my description was more like them.

Either way, they were knowingly breaking the law and being rude by not following my sign. 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099277773Sun, 19 Sep 2021 13:48:07 -00002099277773@Uncensored

Of which bent? Heavenly Father or Personal Lord and Savior & Good News... or the Earth is Going to End? 

 

Sat Sep 18 2021 15:11:07 EDT from Nurb432

Grrr. So the 'witness kids' are out and about bugging people today. They dont feel they need to follow the local ordinances.  Only reason i dont call the cops on them, have them fined and kicked out of the neighborhood, is i dont want to bother the police over it. 

But it pisses me off greatly. Follow the law, read the signs. Freaking entitled scumbags. Should punch them in the face for trespassing.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099277719Sat, 18 Sep 2021 19:11:07 -00002099277719@Uncensored

Grrr. So the 'witness kids' are out and about bugging people today. They dont feel they need to follow the local ordinances.  Only reason i dont call the cops on them, have them fined and kicked out of the neighborhood, is i dont want to bother the police over it. 

But it pisses me off greatly. Follow the law, read the signs. Freaking entitled scumbags. Should punch them in the face for trespassing.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099276393Sat, 04 Sep 2021 00:06:58 -00002099276393@Uncensored

 

Stephen King isn't good for a lot... but in one of his books he has a character describe, "People always say, everything was 40 days and 40 nights in the bible. That is how you can tell it is all myth... but what they're missing is, 40 days and 40 nights isn't supposed to be taken literally, it means, "a helluva long time." You go out into the desert for "40 days and 40 nights," and you come back with a vision." 

 

It is one of his more actually awake observations.  

Fri Sep 03 2021 17:52:58 EDT from Nurb432

It might have been from their view of the world.  

Fri Sep 03 2021 05:35:12 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

On the other hand.... 

"The bible is all fairy tales and superstition. There weren't rains for 40 days and 40 nights that flooded the whole earth so that every mountaintop was below the water..." 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099276380Fri, 03 Sep 2021 21:52:58 -00002099276380@Uncensored

It might have been from their view of the world.  

Fri Sep 03 2021 05:35:12 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

On the other hand.... 

"The bible is all fairy tales and superstition. There weren't rains for 40 days and 40 nights that flooded the whole earth so that every mountaintop was below the water..." 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099276376Fri, 03 Sep 2021 21:35:12 -00002099276376@Uncensored

On the other hand.... 

"The bible is all fairy tales and superstition. There weren't rains for 40 days and 40 nights that flooded the whole earth so that every mountaintop was below the water..." 

Sure - but nearly every ancient scriptural history has a great flood story of some sort - even separated societies on opposite sides of the world - so it is pretty clear that there was, at some point in our collective experience, a pretty global or significant flood disaster that left an indelible mark on the human consciousness. 

"Sure... ok... but Moses was just a mythical being, and did not spread the red sea..." 

But, we've found a location where the Red Sea is so shallow across its breadth that we've modeled that high winds could actually PART the sea - and we've found the remains of a lot of chariots and iron age weapons on the shores in that area - which seems to match the story of...

"Ok... but David and Goliath?" 

"We found a cup, an

Fri Sep 03 2021 17:13:59 EDT from Nurb432

"science shows there was a flood in biblical times"  "that proves god exists since the bible said both, and there was a flood" 

Um. no. That isn't quite how it works. 

So that means if you go further back, and they documented a large rock that hit the ground " zeus tossed it ", That means zeus exists?  Or "big rain today ug, sun god didnt come today and is mad at us, clouds, rain ug" "draw on wall ug"

Someone doesn't understand the process of scientific proof.. 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099276374Fri, 03 Sep 2021 21:21:25 -00002099276374@Uncensored

I'm pretty much counting on God being amused by the creative ways I worked around His rules and respecting that sense of autonomy and independence and intellect in His creations. 

If not... well... that isn't going to work out so well. 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099276371Fri, 03 Sep 2021 21:13:59 -00002099276371@Uncensored

"science shows there was a flood in biblical times"  "that proves god exists since the bible said both, and there was a flood" 

Um. no. That isn't quite how it works. 

So that means if you go further back, and they documented a large rock that hit the ground " zeus tossed it ", That means zeus exists?  Or "big rain today ug, sun god didnt come today and is mad at us, clouds, rain ug" "draw on wall ug"

Someone doesn't understand the process of scientific proof.. 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099275118Sat, 21 Aug 2021 22:26:07 -00002099275118@Uncensored

"NOOOOO! YOU CANT BASE YOUR MORALITY ON A FAIRY TALE"

  - Star Trek and Harry Potter fans

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099275049Fri, 20 Aug 2021 19:01:19 -00002099275049@Uncensored

All kidding aside, if one is supposed to believe in some such absolute rule set of life, handed down by their chosen deity, but then 'work around the intent' then why even bother ? Sounds like one's belief system isn't really of any relevance, and seems rather hypocritical, and just for convenience. I'm sure your chosen deity can see thru the veil, and be disappointed in you.

 

" I believe and will follow the teachings of the all mighty octopus! unless i dont feel like it that is.  "

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099275048Fri, 20 Aug 2021 18:53:28 -00002099275048@Uncensored

lol

that is not even "getting around", that is just outright cheating. :) 

Fri Aug 20 2021 01:04:38 PM EDT from LoanShark

timed switches

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099275035Fri, 20 Aug 2021 17:04:38 -00002099275035@Uncensored 2021-08-11 19:53 from ParanoidDelusions >How is turning on a light switch not work but turning on a stove >switch is?  triL or shazam can probably answer this one better, but my understanding is that both are forbidden, but there are workarounds for both, such as running the oven on 350 until sundown, or timed switches, or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KosherSwitch and apparently it depends on which rabbi you're following. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099274948Thu, 19 Aug 2021 12:52:25 -00002099274948@Uncensored

UU kind of bugs me.  They organize because they are feeling a call to worship, but most of them refuse to believe in the One who is calling them.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099274934Thu, 19 Aug 2021 08:38:19 -00002099274934@Uncensored 2021-08-11 20:31 from Nurb432 >I guess they cant turn the lights off for the duration.  > >  >> Wed Aug 11 2021 07:53:26 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions >> >> >> >>How is turning on a light switch not work but turning on a stove >>switch is?  >> I have heard certain muslims think they can't even switch a light on during "that time of the year". ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099274893Wed, 18 Aug 2021 17:54:45 -00002099274893@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099274835Tue, 17 Aug 2021 22:08:20 -00002099274835@Uncensored

When i was a child i was sent to a Unitarian church a few times.  Its one place i learned to despise the entire concept of organized religion. Sure, belief is a personal choice, even if i think its silly, its still a person's choice so more power to them.  Organized religion however, is no different than organized crime.

 

( and ya that will annoy many, sorry, but its how i feel )

Tue Aug 17 2021 09:38:16 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Let's just all agree to make fun of the Unitarians. Those people are morons.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099274801Tue, 17 Aug 2021 13:38:16 -00002099274801@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099274358Thu, 12 Aug 2021 00:31:28 -00002099274358@Uncensored

I guess they cant turn the lights off for the duration. 

 

Wed Aug 11 2021 07:53:26 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

How is turning on a light switch not work but turning on a stove switch is? 

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099274355Wed, 11 Aug 2021 23:53:26 -00002099274355@Uncensored

How is turning on a light switch not work but turning on a stove switch is? 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099274245Tue, 10 Aug 2021 22:06:48 -00002099274245@Uncensored

To me its more like :

"our great deity made up these rules here, and its our obligation to find ways around it" "We cant technically cheat as then we cant go to the *insert appropriate after-life resort here*, but not really follow the spirit either"

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099274151Tue, 10 Aug 2021 03:50:56 -00002099274151@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099274040Sun, 08 Aug 2021 20:05:33 -00002099274040@Uncensored

Was looking at the manual on my new stove before i threw it away.. ran across this...what in the hell?  LoL

"cant start a fire, but you can keep the oven running if you turn it on before"

____

What is Sabbath Mode on an oven? When in Sabbath Mode, your oven will disable its automatic shut-off function to stay on longer than 12 hours. This means that the oven will stay in a Bake mode until shut off, which will allow you to use the oven for cooking or warming food.

____

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099266311Wed, 26 May 2021 01:35:00 -00002099266311@Uncensored

Yeah... which is why I was making that, "WTF?!?" face when I read it. 

"You just never know where people are going to do a complete 180 degree turn..." 

I mean, I have those issues, myself... where my Conservative friends go, "Um... so, how is that Covid-vaccination working out for you?" 

 

Tue May 25 2021 14:38:18 EDT from Nurb432

Ya but coming from me, should have been obvious it was sarcasm.  I almost never would support a ban on something that consenting adults do on their own time. No matter how much i may or may not agree with it for myself.

 

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099266272Tue, 25 May 2021 18:38:18 -00002099266272@Uncensored

Ya but coming from me, should have been obvious it was sarcasm.  I almost never would support a ban on something that consenting adults do on their own time. No matter how much i may or may not agree with it for myself.

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099266263Tue, 25 May 2021 17:09:04 -00002099266263@Uncensored

I took it literally too. 

That is the problem with sarcasm today - so many people would actually do the thing - when someone says it ironically, it is easy to take them at face value. 

 

Tue May 25 2021 12:25:52 EDT from Nurb432

I was mostly being sarcastic. 

Banning religion is the very definition of oppression.  

Tue May 25 2021 11:19:04 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Banning religion won't work. There are several reasons for this.

The obvious one is that God is real (unless declared integer) and people will continue to feel a call to worship. Heck, even the Unitarians feel a call to worship even though they refuse to believe in the One who is calling them.

The other reason is practical: there are dogmatic movements that require a holiness spiral, even though they are not "real" religions they organize and behave as religion. We don't have to name them here, but they are the usual culprits -- political movements masquerading as science but behaving as religion.

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099266258Tue, 25 May 2021 16:25:52 -00002099266258@Uncensored

I was mostly being sarcastic. 

Banning religion is the very definition of oppression.  

Tue May 25 2021 11:19:04 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Banning religion won't work. There are several reasons for this.

The obvious one is that God is real (unless declared integer) and people will continue to feel a call to worship. Heck, even the Unitarians feel a call to worship even though they refuse to believe in the One who is calling them.

The other reason is practical: there are dogmatic movements that require a holiness spiral, even though they are not "real" religions they organize and behave as religion. We don't have to name them here, but they are the usual culprits -- political movements masquerading as science but behaving as religion.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099266254Tue, 25 May 2021 15:19:04 -00002099266254@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099266241Tue, 25 May 2021 12:22:33 -00002099266241@Uncensored

Could just ban all religion. problem solved.

You can still believe what you want, but no one gets to organize.  So no favorites or favors..   ( or people getting fleeced by their chosen religion as it demands their obedience, and cash )

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099266210Tue, 25 May 2021 02:03:27 -00002099266210@Uncensored

Well, and there again - I think the "separation of Church and State," part of the establishment clause says, "If you're not part of the local supermajority - they can't prevent you from leaving and finding a community that has laws you wish to live by." 

That is what the Establishment Clause was about... you couldn't LEAVE London and get away from the Anglican church by starting a Protestant or Pilgrim community in say, Devonshire or Liverpool or Cardiff. The State established Anglican church was the supreme church of England. You had to renounce your English citizenship and move to some other country - or go be a Colonist, where the King of England didn't really care (and still, officially, you had to be an Anglican... you just had freedom to practice what you actually believed without State persecution for that.) 


So, the Colonists founded the nation on the idea of things like the New England "City on a Hill," a *distinctly* Christian concept of Government. The Puritans, th

 

Mon May 24 2021 17:25:38 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

The general jurisprudence of this means that if an Amish county in
Lancaster wants to be a DRY county - we tend to allow this kind of
local legislation, excepting that a resident of that county is

Fine point: this is accomplished when there are enough people of a particular religious persuasion in a community that they dominate the local government.
So if they for example prohibit the sale of liquor in the county, that is permissible, but if they delegate the jurisdiction of liquor to the Mennonite church, that is unconstitutional.

It can be abused, however. Not far from here, there is a town that is dominated by an Orthodox Jewish community. Members of that community hold a supermajority of seats on the school board, where they vote to defund pretty much everything because their own children don't go to the public schools. This keeps their school taxes to a minimum, but the schools are falling apart. There is something that "feels" wrong about this, but they technically have not violated any laws.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099266184Mon, 24 May 2021 21:25:38 -00002099266184@UncensoredThe general jurisprudence of this means that if an Amish county in >Lancaster wants to be a DRY county - we tend to allow this kind of >local legislation, excepting that a resident of that county is Fine point: this is accomplished when there are enough people of a particular religious persuasion in a community that they dominate the local government. So if they for example prohibit the sale of liquor in the county, that is permissible, but if they delegate the jurisdiction of liquor to the Mennonite church, that is unconstitutional. It can be abused, however. Not far from here, there is a town that is dominated by an Orthodox Jewish community. Members of that community hold a supermajority of seats on the school board, where they vote to defund pretty much everything because their own children don't go to the public schools. This keeps their school taxes to a minimum, but the schools are falling apart. There is something that "feels" wrong about this, but they technically have not violated any laws. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099266113Mon, 24 May 2021 01:41:47 -00002099266113@Uncensored

Arabella, Ig nailed it here. 

The Establishment Clause means that the US Government will establish no official State Religion that citizens must be members of. That means you can be a Catholic, you can be a Muslim, you can be a Protestant... 

Furthermore - they felt that local communities had the right to establish *their* community based on the values of their religious values. The Quakers, the Mennonites, the New England Protestants. 

It just so happened that the majority of people fleeing persecution in the old world when this was a REAL big thing came from Western European Christian traditions - so the dominant expression of religious freedom in the New World was Christian. 

The rest of the world, and far too many US Citizens, have gotten this into their head as "separation of Church and State..." which is a phrase that isn't in any of the actual foundational documents of the Republic. 

Most of this comes from having dealt with the Roman Cath

Sun May 23 2021 14:54:09 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Remember that we are talking about United States law here -- your situation will be different.

Directly from the US Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

This means, among other things, that there shall be no state religion.  The first part means that the government cannot establish a theocracy; it cannot persecute its citizens based on their adherence, or lack of adherence, to one specific religion.  The second part guarantees that the citizens are free to practice a religion of their choice.  Both of these things were important to the colonists, many who migrated for the express purpose of freeing religious persecution.

The FFRF deliberately corrupts this clause by claiming that "freedom of religion is freedom from religion."  This is of course absurd.  They rally, rather militantly, against any display of Christianity that is viewable in public.  (Interestingly, they spend little to no time persecuting Islamists, who actually are trying to force their religion on everyone.)

It could be argued that Madalyn Murray O'Hair actually did us a favor by lobbying to remove prayer in schools.  She was despised in the 1960's, but today, that precedent is keeping Satanism and Islam out of the public schools as well.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099266090Sun, 23 May 2021 18:54:09 -00002099266090@Uncensored

Remember that we are talking about United States law here -- your situation will be different.

Directly from the US Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

This means, among other things, that there shall be no state religion.  The first part means that the government cannot establish a theocracy; it cannot persecute its citizens based on their adherence, or lack of adherence, to one specific religion.  The second part guarantees that the citizens are free to practice a religion of their choice.  Both of these things were important to the colonists, many who migrated for the express purpose of freeing religious persecution.

The FFRF deliberately corrupts this clause by claiming that "freedom of religion is freedom from religion."  This is of course absurd.  They rally, rather militantly, against any display of Christianity that is viewable in public.  (Interestingly, they spend little to no time persecuting Islamists, who actually are trying to force their religion on everyone.)

It could be argued that Madalyn Murray O'Hair actually did us a favor by lobbying to remove prayer in schools.  She was despised in the 1960's, but today, that precedent is keeping Satanism and Islam out of the public schools as well.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099265970Sat, 22 May 2021 05:22:06 -00002099265970@Uncensored

 

Wed May 19 2021 07:47:28 PM EDTfrom ParanoidDelusions

Yeah... the idea that the establishment clause means "zero-tolerance on generic religious expression in functions of the State" is silly. It isn't even close to the plainly evident truth. 

Why is it silly?

Or do you mean Christian, rather than generic, because I'd be willing to bet if the Muslims asked for some form of expression in the functions of state, your happiness would be sub-optimal.

In the Function of state, as in sports, there is no place for religion.

It is, at best, devisive.

By all means practice your chosen God's Laws, but do it privately, and don't involve me.

If the state passes a law that decrees *thing* because God said, then it has not served thhe people, except by serendipity. It has also subjected me to the Law of a god I do not accept.

 

Aside:

Until recently an insurance company could erfuse to pay a claim, if it was decided the damge/loss was caused by an "Act of God."

If I had been refused a claim on those grounds, my response would have been: "Get me His written apollogy, or give me what I'm owed"

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099265653Wed, 19 May 2021 23:47:28 -00002099265653@Uncensored

Assuming they played a losing hand on Pascal's Wager. ;) 

Yeah... the idea that the establishment clause means "zero-tolerance on generic religious expression in functions of the State" is silly. It isn't even close to the plainly evident truth. 

 

 

Wed May 19 2021 14:51:15 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

FFRF = "Freedom From Religion Foundation". They're a bunch of ultra-militant atheists out of Wisconsin who lobby for the removal of other religions anywhere and everywhere. They operate under the false assumption that "freedom OF religion means freedom FROM religion." These people are 100% guaranteed to burn in hell, at which point they might reconsider their position.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099265617Wed, 19 May 2021 18:51:15 -00002099265617@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099265534Wed, 19 May 2021 08:30:23 -00002099265534@Uncensored 2021-05-17 10:28 from IGnatius T Foobar > >Yeah, and you're practicing that the same way AntiFa is practicing > >anti-fascism. Just because you stick a feather in your butt, does not > > >mean you're a chicken. > > Heh. That's pretty much it. Militant atheists tend to be some of the >most dogmatic people you'll ever meet. The FFRF people, for example, >dedicate enormous amounts of time and energy to proselytization. They >are exactly what they claim to hate the most. > > I am not familiar with FFRF, but I have some passing experience with organized Skepticism, and I can tell you *those* are dogmatic as heck. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099265408Tue, 18 May 2021 02:26:11 -00002099265408@Uncensored

That was at Darknetuser... 

But I see how the formatting could lead you to believe it was directed at you. 

Mon May 17 2021 15:56:46 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I'm not angry at all.  You're free to make poor choices as long as they don't impact me.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099265377Mon, 17 May 2021 21:23:44 -00002099265377@Uncensored

Ditto. 

That is how everyone should live their lives.  "Go be  you, and ill go be me"

Mon May 17 2021 03:56:46 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I'm not angry at all.  You're free to make poor choices as long as they don't impact me.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099265358Mon, 17 May 2021 19:56:46 -00002099265358@Uncensored

I'm not angry at all.  You're free to make poor choices as long as they don't impact me.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099265315Mon, 17 May 2021 15:21:25 -00002099265315@Uncensored

I feel like every post you've made recently has shown that you're 180 degrees from the correct answer. 

 

Mon May 17 2021 07:51:48 EDT from darknetuser

2021-05-15 22:34 from ParanoidDelusions
This may be the problem. I'm looking at Pascal's Wager as a purely
logical, non-personal wager proposition devoid of personal biases or
desired outcomes. 

False.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099265314Mon, 17 May 2021 15:20:34 -00002099265314@Uncensored

Ah... you're not angry at me about Linux... 

You're angry at me about God. 

Still a better choice than Atheism, though. ;) 

 

Mon May 17 2021 07:49:37 EDT from darknetuser

2021-05-15 16:45 from IGnatius T Foobar

Which is the strongest bet you can make on that side of the table -

If I were going to do Pascal's Wager I would have remained enslaved to

the Roman Catholic Church, with all of its weird sacraments and
proprietary extensions to Christianity.

If you were playing Pascal Wager then protestantism would be a suboptimal choice, actually.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099265305Mon, 17 May 2021 14:28:40 -00002099265305@UncensoredYeah, and you're practicing that the same way AntiFa is practicing >anti-fascism. Just because you stick a feather in your butt, does not >mean you're a chicken.  Heh. That's pretty much it. Militant atheists tend to be some of the most dogmatic people you'll ever meet. The FFRF people, for example, dedicate enormous amounts of time and energy to proselytization. They are exactly what they claim to hate the most. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099265292Mon, 17 May 2021 11:51:48 -00002099265292@Uncensored 2021-05-15 22:34 from ParanoidDelusions >This may be the problem. I'm looking at Pascal's Wager as a purely >logical, non-personal wager proposition devoid of personal biases or >desired outcomes.  > False. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099265291Mon, 17 May 2021 11:49:37 -00002099265291@Uncensored 2021-05-15 16:45 from IGnatius T Foobar > >Which is the strongest bet you can make on that side of the table - > > If I were going to do Pascal's Wager I would have remained enslaved to >the Roman Catholic Church, with all of its weird sacraments and >proprietary extensions to Christianity. > > If you were playing Pascal Wager then protestantism would be a suboptimal choice, actually. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099265265Mon, 17 May 2021 05:13:52 -00002099265265@Uncensored

What I get is "a-theism means absence of faith, devoid of theistic belief." 

Yeah, and you're practicing that the same way AntiFa is practicing anti-fascism. Just because you stick a feather in your butt, does not mean you're a chicken. 

 

Sun May 16 2021 14:33:18 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

The fact that the ATHEISTS are just as trigger by this as the *theists* -basically illustrates that atheism *is* a faith based belief felt with the devotion of the religiously convicted. 

They find the denial of their NON-GOD as sacreligious as the theists find the rejection of their God. 

Agreed, and they get REALLY upset when you point that out to them.  They insist that atheism and absence of religion are the same thing.  They aren't.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099265193Sun, 16 May 2021 18:33:18 -00002099265193@Uncensored

The fact that the ATHEISTS are just as trigger by this as the *theists* -basically illustrates that atheism *is* a faith based belief felt with the devotion of the religiously convicted. 

They find the denial of their NON-GOD as sacreligious as the theists find the rejection of their God. 

Agreed, and they get REALLY upset when you point that out to them.  They insist that atheism and absence of religion are the same thing.  They aren't.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099265106Sun, 16 May 2021 02:34:02 -00002099265106@Uncensored

This may be the problem. I'm looking at Pascal's Wager as a purely logical, non-personal wager proposition devoid of personal biases or desired outcomes. 

I'm working the *numbers* like a Jockey reading the racing forum before the race. Purely statics. 

Atheism is probably the biggest *favorite* with the LOWEST payoff. You'll win less of a payoff on a win than you paid for your ticket. 

Jockey's have a phrase for this, "you can't win for losing". 

The fact that the ATHEISTS are just as trigger by this as the *theists* -basically illustrates that atheism *is* a faith based belief felt with the devotion of the religiously convicted. 

They find the denial of their NON-GOD as sacreligious as the theists find the rejection of their God. 

Because - they're ultimately the same.

 

*pissing on everyone's leg*

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099265105Sun, 16 May 2021 02:27:53 -00002099265105@Uncensored

Still a better bet than Atheism. 

 

Sat May 15 2021 16:45:18 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Which is the strongest bet you can make on that side of the table -

If I were going to do Pascal's Wager I would have remained enslaved to the Roman Catholic Church, with all of its weird sacraments and proprietary extensions to Christianity.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099265104Sun, 16 May 2021 02:27:16 -00002099265104@Uncensored

I've already said, if you bet on the flying sphagetti monster with faith, and that pans out, you're still a bigger winner than an Atheist. 

The entire argument is - from the perspective *solely* of Pascal's Wager - a bet on God is a *better paying* bet than even *winning* on the Atheist side of the table - unless atheism allows you to do depraved things without guilt. 

This is just simple secular logic. 

The Atheist wager on Pascal's Wager *only* pays off if you're a fucking horrible person and you JUST wink out when you die. It is basically Bill Gates' wager. "Fuck everyone, you only get 80 years on average. Make them count." 

 

 

Fri May 07 2021 12:41:39 EDT from Nurb432

 

Fri May 07 2021 12:24:05 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Perhaps. I don't think of it that way. Instead, I choose to acknowledge the One who *made* the table, the casino the table is in, and the universe the casino is in.

2099265073@UncensoredWhich is the strongest bet you can make on that side of the table - If I were going to do Pascal's Wager I would have remained enslaved to the Roman Catholic Church, with all of its weird sacraments and proprietary extensions to Christianity. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099264369Tue, 11 May 2021 04:14:25 -00002099264369@Uncensored

Which is the strongest bet you can make on that side of the table - and you probably shouldn't lay your money down on Pascal's Wager without thinking that your bet is a sure thing. 

 

Fri May 07 2021 12:24:05 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Perhaps. I don't think of it that way. Instead, I choose to acknowledge the One who *made* the table, the casino the table is in, and the universe the casino is in.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099264005Fri, 07 May 2021 21:44:53 -00002099264005@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263964Fri, 07 May 2021 16:41:39 -00002099263964@Uncensored

 

Fri May 07 2021 12:24:05 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Perhaps. I don't think of it that way. Instead, I choose to acknowledge the One who *made* the table, the casino the table is in, and the universe the casino is in.

2099263958@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263697Wed, 05 May 2021 18:01:19 -00002099263697@Uncensored

You've still played his wager - and you're playing the smarter side of the table, even if you don't know it or why. 

 

Wed May 05 2021 10:56:01 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Also, I went straight from BASIC to C at the age of 15, so Pascal never really interested me.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263690Wed, 05 May 2021 17:34:03 -00002099263690@Uncensored

LoL

 

Wed May 05 2021 10:56:01 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Also, I went straight from BASIC to C at the age of 15, so Pascal never really interested me.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263667Wed, 05 May 2021 14:56:01 -00002099263667@Uncensoredbecause the point I'm trying to make is that *purely* from the >perspective of Pascal's Wager - atheism is a bad bet.  Dunno. I've been a believer my whole life so I never really thought about it. Also, I went straight from BASIC to C at the age of 15, so Pascal never really interested me. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263365Mon, 03 May 2021 22:51:26 -00002099263365@Uncensored

lol

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263364Mon, 03 May 2021 22:40:07 -00002099263364@Uncensored

Do you have a moment to hear the good news about accepting FPGA as your personal silver bullet in retro-gaming? 

Mon May 03 2021 16:24:03 EDT from Nurb432

Topics stray

but organized religion is bottom feeder territory

Mon May 03 2021 03:30:41 PM EDT from zooer

Can we have just one religious room?

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263353Mon, 03 May 2021 20:24:03 -00002099263353@Uncensored

Topics stray

but organized religion is bottom feeder territory

Mon May 03 2021 03:30:41 PM EDT from zooer

Can we have just one religious room?

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263348Mon, 03 May 2021 19:30:41 -00002099263348@Uncensored

Can we have just one religious room?

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263337Mon, 03 May 2021 18:37:32 -00002099263337@Uncensored

I would take Darknetuser's theological interpretation of the Christian bible with generous doses of salt, Nurb. ;) 

What he is describing below sounds more like the Marvel Comic's adaptation of The Amazing Jesus Christ. 

Mon May 03 2021 11:57:44 EDT from Nurb432

Well, lets say for a second this was all true.  Not sure id want to be part of that band. Sounds like an uncaring prick, and you may not get what you think from him anyway..

Mon May 03 2021 11:35:36 AM EDT from darknetuser

* Born before the 'true book' was written.  Countless generations
existed before the 'rules' were documented. Are they also screwed or
did they get an automatic pass?

I think it is established in the New Testament that God was the Lord and Protector of His People until he sent Christ and embraced the rest of mankind. So non-believers died before Christ are probably screwed because they didn't have protection from God - ie He pretty much declared they were not their problem until He decided to take everybody under His umbrella.

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263326Mon, 03 May 2021 17:22:33 -00002099263326@Uncensored

And they don't really have a satisfactory answer for the natural order of inequity and inequality in the universe, except for, "When you die, it doesn't matter anyhow." 

At least the Christians have an abiding faith that the immoral bastard Billionaire will most likely burn for eternity in hell for his sins, while they are greatly rewarded in the afterlife. 

Again, if you're wagering on the way it works - at least the Theists are optimists about there being purpose and reason and ultimate accountability. The Atheists lead to the inevitable conclusion, "if you can get away with it and it pleases you, you're an idiot if you don't do it." 

 

Mon May 03 2021 13:17:32 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Atheists tend to also frequently be bitter Libertarians that are disillusioned that wealthy and powerful billionaires can do what they please, but they can barely keep their late model, beat up Honda running. 

They really don't *like* the natural order of the universe. 

Mon May 03 2021 12:08:43 EDT from darknetuser

2021-05-03 11:46 from ParanoidDelusions
You could argue that in any social order, those who are ABOVE the
majority of the rules have the most fun. 

There is that too. The proposition of being an immoral bastard also holds value, but only if you can make it work.

In my personal life I follow a simple rules. I am an immoral bastard towards those who mistreat me and I am kind to those who haven't mistreated me yet. It seems to maximize results for me :)

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263323Mon, 03 May 2021 17:17:32 -00002099263323@Uncensored

Atheists tend to also frequently be bitter Libertarians that are disillusioned that wealthy and powerful billionaires can do what they please, but they can barely keep their late model, beat up Honda running. 

They really don't *like* the natural order of the universe. 

Mon May 03 2021 12:08:43 EDT from darknetuser

2021-05-03 11:46 from ParanoidDelusions
You could argue that in any social order, those who are ABOVE the
majority of the rules have the most fun. 

There is that too. The proposition of being an immoral bastard also holds value, but only if you can make it work.

In my personal life I follow a simple rules. I am an immoral bastard towards those who mistreat me and I am kind to those who haven't mistreated me yet. It seems to maximize results for me :)

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263322Mon, 03 May 2021 17:15:55 -00002099263322@Uncensored

I have reformulated Pascal's wager outside the context of Abrahamic Christianity. You refuse to entertain that, and insist on bringing it back to Abrahamic Christianity. 

I believe if you were truly *indifferent* - you would see the inarguable strength of my argument. 

The wager implicitly holds merit only if certain assumptions are made. That is - the assumption is that there IS or is NOT a creator - that there is or is not intelligent design. That is the baseline set of assumptions. We can throw out every more granular assumption above that in coming to the conclusion that the atheists wager is a bad bet. You want to broaden the assumptions until you can go, "What if Zork wants to just crush your skull." 

 

Mon May 03 2021 12:05:37 EDT from darknetuser

2021-05-03 11:42 from ParanoidDelusions
Still a singular obsessive fixation on the Abrahamic, Christian
God. 

The Pascal Wager was formulated in relation to the Christian God.

I don't consider myself an atheist, much less a militant one, and I certainly am not angry at Christianity. I am just indifferent.

Still you frame your arguments in such a way they hold merit only when a certain set of assumptions are made, which happen to be characteristic of modern Abrahamic religions. Hence all the discussion about them. If you want to stop talking about Abraham then re-frame the wager.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263316Mon, 03 May 2021 16:08:43 -00002099263316@Uncensored 2021-05-03 11:46 from ParanoidDelusions >You could argue that in any social order, those who are ABOVE the >majority of the rules have the most fun.  > > There is that too. The proposition of being an immoral bastard also holds value, but only if you can make it work. In my personal life I follow a simple rules. I am an immoral bastard towards those who mistreat me and I am kind to those who haven't mistreated me yet. It seems to maximize results for me :) ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263315Mon, 03 May 2021 16:05:37 -00002099263315@Uncensored 2021-05-03 11:42 from ParanoidDelusions >Still a singular obsessive fixation on the Abrahamic, Christian >God.  The Pascal Wager was formulated in relation to the Christian God. I don't consider myself an atheist, much less a militant one, and I certainly am not angry at Christianity. I am just indifferent. Still you frame your arguments in such a way they hold merit only when a certain set of assumptions are made, which happen to be characteristic of modern Abrahamic religions. Hence all the discussion about them. If you want to stop talking about Abraham then re-frame the wager. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263312Mon, 03 May 2021 15:57:44 -00002099263312@Uncensored

Well, lets say for a second this was all true.  Not sure id want to be part of that band. Sounds like an uncaring prick, and you may not get what you think from him anyway..

Mon May 03 2021 11:35:36 AM EDT from darknetuser

* Born before the 'true book' was written.  Countless generations
existed before the 'rules' were documented. Are they also screwed or
did they get an automatic pass?

I think it is established in the New Testament that God was the Lord and Protector of His People until he sent Christ and embraced the rest of mankind. So non-believers died before Christ are probably screwed because they didn't have protection from God - ie He pretty much declared they were not their problem until He decided to take everybody under His umbrella.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263307Mon, 03 May 2021 15:46:27 -00002099263307@Uncensored

You could argue that in any social order, those who are ABOVE the majority of the rules have the most fun. 


As an atheist, the objective would naturally be to be in the segment generally ABOVE the rules. 

In the pride, only the patriarch of the male lions gets to have sex and offspring. The rules *suck* if you're not the pride's leader and you're a male. 

THIS is natural order. There are lots of analogies to this in our own society. 

The only way that a subordinate lion gets to have sex and offspring, is by physically defeating the current pack leader. The pack leader will inevitably, eventually be defeated and deposed - but until then - it is BEST being King. 

Mon May 03 2021 11:22:11 EDT from darknetuser

Earth Theory. In a universe without higher purpose, meaning and
creation - there is no reason to be moral. There is no reason to be
amoral either. There are *no* reasons to be anything but whatever is

most rewarding to each individual organism. That is the *inescapable*

of *actual* atheism. If you believe in natural law as an atheist,
you've simply replaced one artificial construct of humanity that
people believe in on faith with another one. 

You could argue that societies which have rules have a better chance of having each member have more fun, therefore even in the most nihilistic of realities there is value to the proposition of following social codes.

Even wild animals have rules.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263305Mon, 03 May 2021 15:42:54 -00002099263305@Uncensored

Still a singular obsessive fixation on the Abrahamic, Christian God. 

You're not so much an atheist - as you're angry at Christianity. So much so that no amount of blatant steering of the conversation AWAY from Abrahamic Christianity can prevent you from trying to steer the discussion back to that particular belief system. 

This has nothing to do with the Christian God at this point - but it is the only hill you are comfortable defending your claim of "Atheism" on. I get it - you're angry at Christ, the Christian God, and Christians. 

That isn't really my thesis - and I'm not concerned with them. It is Atheists I think are ridiculous - with or without Christian or Hebrew spiritual traditions existing. 

 

Mon May 03 2021 11:17:45 EDT from darknetuser

2021-05-02 14:03 from ParanoidDelusions
In which case, you've still LOST the wager. There is an afterlife -

there is intelligent design, there is a purpose, it wasn't all random

- and atheists were wrong. 

EVEN if we're all fucked. 

This ties with an idea that popped up yesterday while I was doing barn work.


Worshipping a deity that forbids worshipping other deities is actually a suboptimal wager to make. If you worship the Christian God, you are forbidden from worshipping other gods as per the scriptures. However, if I worship Odin, I am also allowed to worship Mash and Hades and the River Ondines and Zork (and in fact many ancient cultures worshipped a wild mix of deities). Worshipping the Christian God locks you into worshipping ONE so your chances of worshipping the right one are less than the chances of a pagan worshipping thirty.

Even then, if you must worship a monotheistic God, then you are better served by worshipping Allah. This is because Allah explicitly promises hell to unbelievers, yet not all CHristian interpretations of God consider hell real, or "as bad a place," or consider God may be merciful towards unbelievers. If Allah is the right interpretation and you worship Christ, Allah wil

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263304Mon, 03 May 2021 15:35:36 -00002099263304@Uncensored * Born before the 'true book' was written.  Countless generations >existed before the 'rules' were documented. Are they also screwed or >did they get an automatic pass? > I think it is established in the New Testament that God was the Lord and Protector of His People until he sent Christ and embraced the rest of mankind. So non-believers died before Christ are probably screwed because they didn't have protection from God - ie He pretty much declared they were not their problem until He decided to take everybody under His umbrella. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263300Mon, 03 May 2021 15:22:11 -00002099263300@UncensoredEarth Theory. In a universe without higher purpose, meaning and >creation - there is no reason to be moral. There is no reason to be >amoral either. There are *no* reasons to be anything but whatever is >most rewarding to each individual organism. That is the *inescapable* >of *actual* atheism. If you believe in natural law as an atheist, >you've simply replaced one artificial construct of humanity that >people believe in on faith with another one.  > You could argue that societies which have rules have a better chance of having each member have more fun, therefore even in the most nihilistic of realities there is value to the proposition of following social codes. Even wild animals have rules. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263299Mon, 03 May 2021 15:17:45 -00002099263299@Uncensored 2021-05-02 14:03 from ParanoidDelusions >In which case, you've still LOST the wager. There is an afterlife - >there is intelligent design, there is a purpose, it wasn't all random >- and atheists were wrong.  > >EVEN if we're all fucked.  This ties with an idea that popped up yesterday while I was doing barn work. Worshipping a deity that forbids worshipping other deities is actually a suboptimal wager to make. If you worship the Christian God, you are forbidden from worshipping other gods as per the scriptures. However, if I worship Odin, I am also allowed to worship Mash and Hades and the River Ondines and Zork (and in fact many ancient cultures worshipped a wild mix of deities). Worshipping the Christian God locks you into worshipping ONE so your chances of worshipping the right one are less than the chances of a pagan worshipping thirty. Even then, if you must worship a monotheistic God, then you are better served by worshipping Allah. This is because Allah explicitly promises hell to unbelievers, yet not all CHristian interpretations of God consider hell real, or "as bad a place," or consider God may be merciful towards unbelievers. If Allah is the right interpretation and you worship Christ, Allah will burn you r ass, while if you whorship Allah and the true interpretation is a merciful variant of the CHristian God, you are much less screwed, so the correct curse of action for you is to gear up with explosives, walk into a crowded market, and scream "Allahu Akbar" while blowing yourself up to pieces. Food for thought. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263291Mon, 03 May 2021 15:07:58 -00002099263291@Uncensored 2021-05-02 14:03 from ParanoidDelusions >In which case, you've still LOST the wager. There is an afterlife - >there is intelligent design, there is a purpose, it wasn't all random >- and atheists were wrong.  > >EVEN if we're all fucked.  > >You still lost the wager. Your bet was the worst bet you could >make.  > >  >> Sun May 02 2021 06:20:00 EDT from darknetuser >> >> >>>THAT would also tend to prove atheism, too. If we went entirely >>>extinct without an "end of the world armageddon/revelations" kind >>of I was talking about the fact that, if the Universe proved itself not to be human-centric, it would not necessarily mean there is no God. Still if you spent your resources in life worshipping Allah and I spent my resources in life having parties, we would be all sent to hell by virtue of not being Zork's octopuses, but I would have achieved a "less worse" result. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263285Mon, 03 May 2021 14:59:11 -00002099263285@Uncensored

"What if it is one of the things we're most obsessed with and one of the most rewarding and sought experiences in our existence because it is one of the most important aspects in *all* of our transitions of awareness as energy, as signals, as harmonic patterns that define us? "

Or maybe part of all the energy, the harmonic balance - of the entire *universe*. You can't destroy energy, right - it just transfers. We were once stars, and until the heat-death of the universe, we'll just continue to become other things for all eternity. In *this* universe. What if, in a multi-dimension universe as described by Sagan and Hawking and others - there are wormholes and bridges and links and they're all connected and all the energy in this universe is intrinsically linked in all those other parallel, infinite other universes and dimensions? 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263284Mon, 03 May 2021 14:54:34 -00002099263284@Uncensored

There is a comedian who describes his early sexual experiences and exploits and then he has a kid with his wife... and he says, 

"I thought the stuff was just like confetti lying around after a party. I didn't know you could MAKE something with it!" 

But - what if it is even more than that? What if the exchange of body fluids, of DNA, the creation of a new life in the womb, what if all of that has multi-dimensional implications we can't even conceive of? 

What if it isn't just puritanical obsession with "not touching your dirty bits". 

What if it is one of the things we're most obsessed with and one of the most rewarding and sought experiences in our existence because it is one of the most important aspects in *all* of our transitions of awareness as energy, as signals, as harmonic patterns that define us? 

Is that actually such an outrageous idea to consider? It is an idea that can totally be conceptualized *devoid* of specific theological tradi

Yet - I bet almost everyone reading this idea here is distinctly discomforted by the very concept. Probably even moreso then simply being told, "Don't touch your dirty bits or spill your seed because it displeases the Creator and is a sin." 

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263283Mon, 03 May 2021 14:48:53 -00002099263283@Uncensored

And the things I've said are neither easily understood, digested, or accepted - and easily dismissed as "the ramblings of someone who has dropped too much acid," by people who don't want to confront the possibility of having the comfortable veil of "cosmic ignorance" pulled back on them - so fair warning - I don't care if you accept what I've said here or not, if you think about it or just cast it away. That is *your* burden, your head-trip - not mine. I've presented it to you, you can think about it and decide for yourself, and think about me what you want after reading it. But if you answer almost immediately that I've convinced you OR that you think I'm a fruitcake - I'll dismiss you instantly as not having thought about it long or hard enough to have responded with a meaningful introspection of what I've said. 

I'm ok with almost EVERYONE being a blue-pill on this. It is another factor that just *is* - regardless of what I or anyone else *wishes* it would be. 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263281Mon, 03 May 2021 14:44:31 -00002099263281@Uncensored

I think *my* answer to your question is in the response above, too, Nurb. I'm talking a much more mind-expanded, multi-discipline idea of existential reality in relation to science and theology that tends to answer these questions. It is why I find it frustrating that the atheists here want to keep bringing it back to *specific* parts of a very narrow slice of an Abrahamic scriptural tradition and why I make the claim, that the Atheists keep providing support for - that you're not so much Atheists as *anti-Christianity*. You all sure seem hyper-focused on Christianity, not the existential question of intelligent creation and omnipotent multi or extradimensional beings.  


What if we're not being told "His rules," but an interpretation we can understand of "THE code" of a larger, multidimensional universe. One that frequently seems very consistent across widely different cultural and spiritual traditions and societies. 


I've been very promiscuous in my life - and I've al

Mon May 03 2021 10:29:55 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Let me address that part, arabella. 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263278Mon, 03 May 2021 14:29:55 -00002099263278@Uncensored

Let me address that part, arabella. 

Today we believe *science* - but most of us don't fully comprehend how little science knows. We are all in agreement that paranoid-schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder is a brain disorder. It also seems clear that it was an affliction that in the past was perceived as "demonic possession." 

But the truth is, despite what we *think* about the disorder, how we've learned to treat it, and the comfort we take from the promise that medical science is the one true path to salvation from this terrible thing that has always plagued mankind... 

We still know very little about its cause, aren't very close in particular to a *cure* or prevention, and get our information from very knowledgeable people who spend their lives learning the arcane skills associated with understanding it - people who assure us that we're not capable of understanding the complexities of making it so difficult to actually understand and that we must trust in

Mon May 03 2021 02:22:47 EDT from arabella

For my part it is not complex.

There is no God, or god's.

Everything I read about religion tells me that a supposed omnipresent, omnipotent being demands our obedience, or worship, or both, and non-compliance damns us for eternity. To me that is very petty for so powerful an entity.

 

The religious seem to do as they do not to please  their deity, but to avoid a hell, that cannot (in my view) exist, and they do this because they follow a set of scriptures which at best, frequently contradict themselves.

 

We no longer sacrifice virgins to volcanoes, to appease Kraak, when his anger spews forth lava. We know there is a geological process at work. One day the religious will realise that they are sacrificing themselves to a modern Kraak, for no better reason than they don't want personal a "volcano" to erupt.

 

Simple. No?

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263264Mon, 03 May 2021 11:52:58 -00002099263264@Uncensored

And i have a curiosity question for the formal religious types.  I have asked this to others and few ever took me seriously and blew it off, including a priest, which got offended id even ask such a thing.   The couple that did, had no answers. One even questioned their position entirely. They are serious questions, not making fun of things.

 

Paraphrasing slightly of course: " You must commit your soul to your god, or you dont get the magic carrot when you die".   Given that requirement, are there exceptions, or is it black and white and your god is just a militant dick-head with no wiggle room for his creations that dont conform?.

 

Examples:

• Animals ( mainly pets, but wild animals too ).  According to what i have been told, they dont have souls since they 'cant choose', so are outta luck. And so are their owners.  Personally if i'm wrong and there is a after-life, but my pets are not there too, then its hell as far as i'm concerned and want no part in it.
• Stillborn, or super young humans.  They never had a chance to 'learn the way', so never committed. Are they just screwed?  Is the child i lost there waiting? ( and as a side question, do children grow while there, or are they still children when you get there? I see a consistency issue here )
• Hidden from 'the true god'.. what if you are only taught one way, and never had the chance to learn anything else. Are you going to be punished for worshiping Allah and killing people, when you never were told it was 'wrong', according to the 'true' book instead?
• Born before the 'true book' was written.  Countless generations existed before the 'rules' were documented. Are they also screwed or did they get an automatic pass?

 

If all those are granted exceptions, then where does it stop?

And why would such a 'powerful, all knowing being' be so demanding and cruel in the first place? Why not "do  your best and i accept  you no matter what and you get the magic carrot in the end anyway" instead of "do as i say, as i say it, when i say it, or ill punish you forever with the magic stick" ( sounds more like an abusive boyfriend than some all knowing and caring deity that created everything and everyone ).

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263253Mon, 03 May 2021 11:13:46 -00002099263253@Uncensored

I do see a difference between belief and religion.

One is a personal thing ( that i have described before ) and the other is a form of organized crime, ultimately created to prey off those who believe.

While i may disagree with the first, its ones right to believe however you feel.    Most of the cartels, i do have a fundamental problem with.

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263235Mon, 03 May 2021 06:22:47 -00002099263235@Uncensored

For my part it is not complex.

There is no God, or god's.

Everything I read about religion tells me that a supposed omnipresent, omnipotent being demands our obedience, or worship, or both, and non-compliance damns us for eternity. To me that is very petty for so powerful an entity.

 

The religious seem to do as they do not to please  their deity, but to avoid a hell, that cannot (in my view) exist, and they do this because they follow a set of scriptures which at best, frequently contradict themselves.

 

We no longer sacrifice virgins to volcanoes, to appease Kraak, when his anger spews forth lava. We know there is a geological process at work. One day the religious will realise that they are sacrificing themselves to a modern Kraak, for no better reason than they don't want personal a "volcano" to erupt.

 

Simple. No?

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263217Mon, 03 May 2021 01:27:08 -00002099263217@Uncensored

Well, that is kind of the Catch-22 of this. 

If being selfless is what rewards you in the short time you are given - if you would be miserable being a self-absorbed prick - then that is the life you need to live from an atheist perspective to enjoy *your* life, individually to the fullest. 

But - in a grand cosmic theme sense - Bill Gates may be enjoying life more - leading a more fully realized life, and certainly is achieving more *personally* with his same lifespan, by being the opposite - and there will be NO day of reckoning for him at the end. It is literally a game of "he who dies with the most toys, and farms, and subjects... wins..." 

There is no judgement at the end - there is just "what did I get out of MY life." 

And Bill Gates quantifiably has gotten more out of life than any of us here on this BBS, by the standard of the Atheist who believes in no judgement, no day of reckoning, that only what happens to you between the day you were born and th

Sun May 02 2021 17:26:41 EDT from Nurb432

have to disagree on that one.  At least as a concept, perhaps not at an individual level for everyone.

Personally I know i do the 'right thing', as i just treat people as i would like to be treated ( not so much an abstract moral code, just "how would i want to be treated".  I dont expect anything in return, i just do what i feel is right. I have fully accepted my insignificance in the larger picture of the universe, i dont need anything else to justify it.  

Sun May 02 2021 05:06:16 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

You can't argue for a meaningless universe created with random chance with *no* purpose and then argue "natural" or "moral" law. 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263191Sun, 02 May 2021 23:19:07 -00002099263191@Uncensored

Well, I'm simplifying it for the slower kids at the table, Ig - because the point I'm trying to make is that *purely* from the perspective of Pascal's Wager - atheism is a bad bet. 

But you know... they've responded by making their model more and more complex in order to try and illustrate why that isn't the case. Just like geocentric orbit proponents in the time of Galileo. 

I know what those who continued to support geocentric orbit after it was clearly proven to be silly had on the table. 

I wonder why these guys are so committed to arguing everything but the foundation point. As a wager, atheism is a stupid bet in the terms of Pascal's Wager. 

 

But... it is like arguing with a fundie about *proof* of God (as opposed to faith in God). Their arguments are circular and based on metaphysical faith they mistake for truth, and at some point, it is a waste of effort to try and reason with such as that. 

 

I've reached that point. 

 

Sun May 02 2021 13:38:16 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

 

Religion is silly.  There is *no* difference between a parent telling their children to be good or Santa won't bring them anything, and a parent telling a child be good or you will spend your afterlife in hell.

You're right.  Predication on "being good" is irrelevant.  Nothing short of a real relationship with the true and living God will assure a favorable outcome in the afterlife.  "Being good" won't.  Nor will any church, not even mine, at least not on its own.

PD paints a picture of all possible religions, including atheism, and also lack of religion (which isn't the same thing as atheism) as spots on a roulette wheel.  I choose not to play, but instead serve the One who *made* the roulette wheel, the casino, and the surrounding universe.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263172Sun, 02 May 2021 21:26:41 -00002099263172@Uncensored

have to disagree on that one.  At least as a concept, perhaps not at an individual level for everyone.

Personally I know i do the 'right thing', as i just treat people as i would like to be treated ( not so much an abstract moral code, just "how would i want to be treated".  I dont expect anything in return, i just do what i feel is right. I have fully accepted my insignificance in the larger picture of the universe, i dont need anything else to justify it.  

Sun May 02 2021 05:06:16 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

You can't argue for a meaningless universe created with random chance with *no* purpose and then argue "natural" or "moral" law. 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263168Sun, 02 May 2021 21:06:16 -00002099263168@Uncensored

You can't argue for a meaningless universe created with random chance with *no* purpose and then argue "natural" or "moral" law. 

That is just bullshit. If it is a meaningful unvierse created by random chance and there is no purpose - then we exist solely for our own amusement, for whatever is the most personally rewarding life we can live - and the concept of "morality" is just as artificial of a construct as God. The lion doesn't distinguish between the old gazzelle, the young gazelle, the sick gazelle or the strong gazzelle - it eats the one it catches and is unconcerned with the morality of the life it took. It lives in the moment, and it dies when something else indifferently kills it - and *that* is the *entire* purpose of all life, even human sentience that can comprehend abstract concepts of good, evil, morality and amorality. The lion is the ACTUAL atheist. You've just replaced God with your concept of "natural law and morality". 

The logic holes in atheism are as legion a

 

 

Sun May 02 2021 07:25:09 EDT from Nurb432

Most ( but not all ) Atheists just do the right thing out of nature, because its right.  We dont need to be threatened with endless bad stuff to be good. 

Not saying you do ( or dont ), just the way its worded, that would be one interpretation .

Sat May 01 2021 11:55:53 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

.  
If the Atheists end up being right - I wish I had dedicated myself to being a shittier, more selfish, more hedonistic person. 

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263143Sun, 02 May 2021 19:10:47 -00002099263143@UncensoredThis is why I'm kind of bullish on the vaccine OR the virus seriously >thinning the herd.  I'm in favor of anything that destroys Bill Gates. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263137Sun, 02 May 2021 18:04:09 -00002099263137@Uncensored

To the NPC in Skyrim, the coder is GOD - the unknowing hand that controls his life. 

Sun May 02 2021 07:31:49 EDT from Nurb432

Or if we are not even real and just a simulation of some sort.

Sun May 02 2021 06:20:00 AM EDT from darknetuser

Atheists would be right if the only option is a God, gods or animus that is focused on mankind specifically.

Imagine if Zork the skullcrusher build the Universe in order to deploy his favourite pets, the three winged gigantic octopuses, which are to be deployed in a million years, and that everything that happens before that is just Zork preparing the Earth for the arrival of the octopuses. Maybe Zork is planning our extinction because we are a byproduct that stands in the way of his pets.

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263136Sun, 02 May 2021 18:03:38 -00002099263136@Uncensored

In which case, you've still LOST the wager. There is an afterlife - there is intelligent design, there is a purpose, it wasn't all random - and atheists were wrong. 

EVEN if we're all fucked. 

You still lost the wager. Your bet was the worst bet you could make. 

 

Sun May 02 2021 06:20:00 EDT from darknetuser

THAT would also tend to prove atheism, too. If we went entirely
extinct without an "end of the world armageddon/revelations" kind of

2nd coming/Tribulation. If we just wink out - then that is probably
it. Nothing after - we were just a random result of the universe and

there was no special reason for us.  

If the Atheists end up being right - I wish I had dedicated myself to

being a shittier, more selfish, more hedonistic person. 

Atheists would be right if the only option is a God, gods or animus that is focused on mankind specifically.

Imagine if Zork the skullcrusher build the Universe in order to deploy his favourite pets, the three winged gigantic octopuses, which are to be deployed in a million years, and that everything that happens before that is just Zork preparing the Earth for the arrival of the octopuses. Maybe Zork is planning our extinction because we are a byproduct that stands in the way of his pets.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263129Sun, 02 May 2021 17:38:16 -00002099263129@Uncensored

 

Religion is silly.  There is *no* difference between a parent telling their children to be good or Santa won't bring them anything, and a parent telling a child be good or you will spend your afterlife in hell.

You're right.  Predication on "being good" is irrelevant.  Nothing short of a real relationship with the true and living God will assure a favorable outcome in the afterlife.  "Being good" won't.  Nor will any church, not even mine, at least not on its own.

PD paints a picture of all possible religions, including atheism, and also lack of religion (which isn't the same thing as atheism) as spots on a roulette wheel.  I choose not to play, but instead serve the One who *made* the roulette wheel, the casino, and the surrounding universe.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.  [John 3:16]

Yes, it really is that simple.  But if you have to have it spelled out, few have done it better than Jack Chick:

 

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]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263106Sun, 02 May 2021 12:24:19 -00002099263106@UncensoredWHA?!? Why? None of the atheists have answered me or been able to >dispute this. That is the game atheists play with Pascal's wager. >WHY?!?   > Another consideration: According to a big bunch of Abrahamists, claiming to worship God and living accordnig to the dogma is NOT sufficient. Somebody who is convinced that the Pascal Wager is reasonable may take it without conviction, go to mass, play the rites and donate to charity. Then off to Gehena he goes anyway because, acording to dogma, he didn't have God in his heart. FOr that to work, you have to believe, and belief is beyond reason (as described above). An aside consideration: a lot of people define themselves as CHristians and believe themselves to be great Christians. They manage and plan their lives following Christian principles for the most part. However, I have noticed that a lot of these people only accepts the parts of the dogma that don't conflict with their interests. They masturbate, have tattoos, have sex pre-marriage, and do all kind of things that are socially acceptable but frowned upon by the hand who wrote the Scriptures. Worst yet, I can tell these ones don't repent because they are sure God will understand anyway. If God is anything as the Bible hints, off to Gehena they are gonna go. I think these people are playng the worst of hands. They are paying the price of devoting their time and resources to the dogma in such a way that if the dogma is right, they are hosed anyway. And this includes people who laughes at other people who won't take Pascal's stance. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263102Sun, 02 May 2021 11:33:20 -00002099263102@Uncensored

Wait, its not made of coke?

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263101Sun, 02 May 2021 11:31:49 -00002099263101@Uncensored

Or if we are not even real and just a simulation of some sort.

Sun May 02 2021 06:20:00 AM EDT from darknetuser

Atheists would be right if the only option is a God, gods or animus that is focused on mankind specifically.

Imagine if Zork the skullcrusher build the Universe in order to deploy his favourite pets, the three winged gigantic octopuses, which are to be deployed in a million years, and that everything that happens before that is just Zork preparing the Earth for the arrival of the octopuses. Maybe Zork is planning our extinction because we are a byproduct that stands in the way of his pets.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263099Sun, 02 May 2021 11:25:09 -00002099263099@Uncensored

Most ( but not all ) Atheists just do the right thing out of nature, because its right.  We dont need to be threatened with endless bad stuff to be good. 

Not saying you do ( or dont ), just the way its worded, that would be one interpretation .

Sat May 01 2021 11:55:53 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

.  
If the Atheists end up being right - I wish I had dedicated myself to being a shittier, more selfish, more hedonistic person. 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263097Sun, 02 May 2021 11:15:32 -00002099263097@UncensoredWHA?!? Why? None of the atheists have answered me or been able to >dispute this. That is the game atheists play with Pascal's wager. >WHY?!?   > I can't answer for militant atheists. As somebody has mentioned, nowadays militant atheism is more of a religion than anything. However, if you _believe_ the moon is made of cheese, you don't stop believing it because somebody tells you there is a gain to be made for believing it is made of cocaine instead. Belief is belief and it lies beyond reason until there is sufficient evidence. The most you can achieve is to force peolpe to pretend they believe the moon is made of cocaine, but you can't sway their hearts so easily. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263096Sun, 02 May 2021 11:11:39 -00002099263096@Uncensored >It is a lot like the person who looks at the Super Lotto odds and >goes, "I'm not playing at all. It is just false hope. Your odds of >winning the jackpot are astronomical. You're NOT going to win."  > >Compared to the person who puts $2 down and says, "I know... but it >is worth it for me to have the dream, the hope... and eventually >someone DOES win - but it is NEVER someone who didn't play who >wins."  > >Atheists are in the first class.  > >Theists are in the second group.  > If the guy playing the lotto never wins, he gets a net loss for all the money hye invested playing, which means the people who didn't play at all ends up in a better possiotion than the guy who played and lost. I am not going to win the lottery if I don't play it, but maybe I can take my money and place it in a game with better chances, which I could never do if I spend all the money in lottery. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263095Sun, 02 May 2021 11:06:50 -00002099263095@Uncensored 2021-05-01 07:26 from Nurb432 >I see the point, but to me Agnostics are people that dont have the >balls to make a decision.  > No, we just don't have a compelling reason to follow a view or another, specially because we don't find significative evidence to believe any current dogma of the ones followed by any human is not going to lead you to sunflower hell in the end. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263094Sun, 02 May 2021 10:57:29 -00002099263094@Uncensored Belief in Santa, God, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster has MORE >chance of a meaningful payoff under the rules of Pascal's Wager than >*atheism*. It is a simple statement that really exists separate of >the Christian church - no matter HOW badly you want to draw the >conversation in that direction - where it is more comfortable for you >to mount a defense of Atheism.  > Only if you believe that the Truth comes with a God or Animus that DEMANDS your worship in order to grant you a reward in the afterlife. Now, say I am atheist who spends his life planting and taking care of sunflowers, then I die, and it turns the real God is Yellowy The Goddess of Sunflowers, whose requisite to enjoying an awesome afterlife is liking sunflowers. From the agnostic point of view, following Christian dogma is not a favourabily stacked bet because you can be a good CHristian, then step on a sunflower and forget to apologize to it, so there is a significative chance that you are a good Chrsitian yet spend eternity being tortured by giant sunflowers in sunflower hell, while the agnostic moron who took the losing bet with no payoff got to both enyoy life and enjoy afterlife. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263093Sun, 02 May 2021 10:46:39 -00002099263093@UncensoredIt is like you guys aren't actually reading my posts.  > I beg to differ. It is like you are not reading our posts. I have included at least three alternate frames that I remember, including: * You bet for the Christian God, then it turns out that the real god (ie Zork the Skullcrusher) hates you because he hates Christian dogma and you burn in hell, while bastards who spent their lives raping and pillaging are sent to the Zork Valhala. * You bet for the Christian God, then it turns the Truth is non-theistic instead of Theistic, therefore wasting your life by following theistic dogmas(ie. you dedicated your life to the Roman Church, instead of reaching true illumination and becoming one with the Universe). ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263089Sun, 02 May 2021 10:20:00 -00002099263089@UncensoredTHAT would also tend to prove atheism, too. If we went entirely >extinct without an "end of the world armageddon/revelations" kind of >2nd coming/Tribulation. If we just wink out - then that is probably >it. Nothing after - we were just a random result of the universe and >there was no special reason for us.   > >If the Atheists end up being right - I wish I had dedicated myself to >being a shittier, more selfish, more hedonistic person.  Atheists would be right if the only option is a God, gods or animus that is focused on mankind specifically. Imagine if Zork the skullcrusher build the Universe in order to deploy his favourite pets, the three winged gigantic octopuses, which are to be deployed in a million years, and that everything that happens before that is just Zork preparing the Earth for the arrival of the octopuses. Maybe Zork is planning our extinction because we are a byproduct that stands in the way of his pets. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099263046Sat, 01 May 2021 21:37:16 -00002099263046@Uncensored

My reference to Pascal's Wager was simply to point out the complexity of your outcome spread.

I don't understand your need for a win/lose scenario.

I believe I have one life to live, and should live it well, in the here and now, not in hope of a reward in some kind of afterlife, I live as ethical a life as I can, simply because it is what I feel is the proper course.

My gender identity is irrelevant, I mentioned it only because of your earlier assertion regarding LGBT atheists (no doubt you are aware of how I feel about the inclusion of the  "T", but if not please feel free to ask me.)

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262988Sat, 01 May 2021 16:04:46 -00002099262988@Uncensored

Here is the weird dichotomy though, of that... 

If you are RIGHT, you won't KNOW and it won't matter. 

If you are wrong, you'll find out that the life you LIVED was *actually* the lie. 

See... that is what I don't get about the bet - just... let's get away from the spirituality and the metaphysical quality of it. 

From a purely secular GAMBLER'S view... apart from questions of God... 


The bet against God is a *shitty* bet - even if you're doing it because you can't bear living what is to you a *lie*. 

Your response basically comes down to, "I'm doing it for my PRINCIPLES..." 

And I guess my response actually is, "you would be better off with less principle, from the perspective of the gambler's wagers." 


That is kind of my thesis here - and maybe presented that way, it'll make it more palatable and understandable to the Atheists here. 


This is why I find atheist evangelists *annoyi

 

Sat May 01 2021 11:32:09 EDT from Nurb432

But, for us, living a life of a lie ( from our standpoint ), would be a lose. 

 

Id rather live my life as i think is right, even if it turns out to be wrong in the end.

Sat May 01 2021 10:59:52 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

As an atheist, you're all in on a single number, there is no other group, and the payoff is NOTHING if you win, and knowing you lost if you lose. 

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262986Sat, 01 May 2021 15:55:53 -00002099262986@Uncensored

I think those kind of projections are hogwash. 

The carrying capacity of the Earth for human lives is fluid and strongly influenced by our ability to leverage technology, produce resources and manage waste. 

The first guy predicting an ecological collapse based on human population growth was in the late 1700s. I always forget his name. By the technology of his time, the growth was unsustainable. He was a conservative. He was *right*. 

What he forgot to account for was technology increasing food yields. 

There is some finite point where we can't balance quality of life with actual *physical* space on the planet for more humans - where the psychology of needing physical *space* has been exceeded. We can't have population so dense that we're all shoulder to shoulder on every bit of surface of the whole planet, as an exaggerated example... 

But even then - the answer is technology - and finding MORE space elsewhere. Terraforming the moon into a blue

 

Sat May 01 2021 10:37:30 EDT from zooer

The Georgia Guidestones state that the ideal human population for the world is under 500 million people. 

If you don't know about the Georgia Guidestones:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

 

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262981Sat, 01 May 2021 15:32:09 -00002099262981@Uncensored

But, for us, living a life of a lie ( from our standpoint ), would be a lose. 

 

Id rather live my life as i think is right, even if it turns out to be wrong in the end.

Sat May 01 2021 10:59:52 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

As an atheist, you're all in on a single number, there is no other group, and the payoff is NOTHING if you win, and knowing you lost if you lose. 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262978Sat, 01 May 2021 15:24:30 -00002099262978@Uncensored

I can see that. 

I don't think it is an absolute yet. If there were strong evidence making it an absolute one way or another - I'd pick a side. Neither side has presented convincing evidence in my opinion. It is a matter of "not enough of data to come to a reliable conclusion." 

Prove that the universe is teeming with life as it should be, you'll move me a notch more toward atheist. Continue to fail to come up with ANY evidence of this, as we are able to look further and further into the cosmos, and you'll move me toward theist. 

If aliens show up with evidence that they genetically engineered us in prehistory, and they are vastly superior and claim, "Listen, the atheists are right, there is no God..." 

That would probably convince me. Of course, theists would just go, "Those aren't aliens. Those are DEMONS!" No matter HOW credible the evidence of the alien/demons was.

Because that is how metaphysical faith *works*. I'm OK with THAT, too. 
<

 

 

Sat May 01 2021 07:26:32 EDT from Nurb432

I see the point, but to me Agnostics are people that dont have the balls to make a decision. 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262976Sat, 01 May 2021 15:17:53 -00002099262976@Uncensored

 

Fri Apr 30 2021 11:12:53 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Care to circle the floor for another waltz of this dance, or are you ready to change the tempo? 

 

You are silly.
No, I don't want to dance with you, because two men dancing together would be GAY and I don't want either of us burning in hell. 

 

If you want to choose to believe that YOUR religion must be the correct one, then do so.  How can your religion be wrong, you have been indoctrinated in it your whole life.

I am not going to change your mind.  If there is a hell, it must be overfilled with souls.  You probably will be in it as well, sitting between two gay men.  

I am sure you masturbated and had pre-marital relations.  (ooooooo, evil!)

Religion is silly.  There is *no* difference between a parent telling their children to be good or Santa won't bring them anything, and a parent telling a child be good or you will spend your afterlife in hell.

 

You don't need religion to be a moral person.

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262973Sat, 01 May 2021 14:59:52 -00002099262973@Uncensored

And... let me be clear... I am not ALL IN on "The Abrahamic God of Denomination X" on the other side of the table. I think Ig is. He has his chips all on a particular group, on a particular *number* in that group, with no spread. He has narrow odds that have a HUGE payoff. 


I've got a bigger spread on a group that is, "mmmmm... COOOOULD BE..." I've played a broader set of odds that has potentially way less, and even bad payoff. 


As an atheist, you're all in on a single number, there is no other group, and the payoff is NOTHING if you win, and knowing you lost if you lose. 


WHA?!? Why? None of the atheists have answered me or been able to dispute this. That is the game atheists play with Pascal's wager. WHY?!?  

 

I think I nailed it... for the same reason that non-lottery players won't play the lottery. "It is a waste of my $2 for false hope." 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262972Sat, 01 May 2021 14:56:36 -00002099262972@Uncensored

The thing about Pascal's wager is that you cannot NOT play that table. 

I think I've figured out how to frame your perspective on it, Arabella... 


It is a lot like the person who looks at the Super Lotto odds and goes, "I'm not playing at all. It is just false hope. Your odds of winning the jackpot are astronomical. You're NOT going to win." 

Compared to the person who puts $2 down and says, "I know... but it is worth it for me to have the dream, the hope... and eventually someone DOES win - but it is NEVER someone who didn't play who wins." 

Atheists are in the first class. 

Theists are in the second group. 

The odds are long, there are lots of different options, the rules are complex... but the child molesting Catholic priest may be betting on the long shot that he picked the right number *and* can actually achieve penance, absolution, forgiveness and salvation. 

The atheist who lives a moral, just and good life is

 

 

Sat May 01 2021 01:42:55 EDT from arabella

I don't care what any of y'all believe.

I absolutely will defend your right to believe it. 

I am atheist.

I am what most people would call Transgender. (My definition of myself is at variance with that)

This thing with Pascal, and gambling...

It seems to me there are for too many outcomes for the religious, to convince me that I'm wrong.

I am unable to understand the need of the religious to believe they will exist after death, in whatever form that takes.

That I think the need for further existence is a vanity should be irrelevant to you, in exactly the same way that your belief I'm damned is irrelevant to me.

I'm not an evangelical atheist, I keep my unbelief (mostly) to myself.

"Mostly" because I'm not ashamed  of it, and will talk about in a relevant setting, but I don't tend to start those conversations.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262967Sat, 01 May 2021 14:37:30 -00002099262967@Uncensored

The Georgia Guidestones state that the ideal human population for the world is under 500 million people. 

If you don't know about the Georgia Guidestones:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262965Sat, 01 May 2021 14:30:17 -00002099262965@Uncensored

If the atheists are right, I suppose I don't care *which* side of the snap I'm on. Either way it solves the problem of having to live in a world full of idiots. 

But, ironically, in an 80/20 universe, the snap would absolutely remove more stupid people than smart people, just by random chance - for a while afterwards anyhow, you would have a better ratio. 

 

 

Sat May 01 2021 07:50:37 EDT from Nurb432

Thanos was right.

I just dont want to be in the 1/2 that vanishes :) 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262953Sat, 01 May 2021 14:02:56 -00002099262953@UncensoredSettled and irrefutable science is NOT the scientific method.  Anyone who says "the science is settled" is NOT a scientist. Real scientists love to put the process back into gear when new data is discovered. As for hacks like Tyson and Nye ... those people are entertainers, not scientists. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262952Sat, 01 May 2021 14:00:16 -00002099262952@UncensoredDo you consider science a religion? To be sure ... science is not a religion, but Science(tm) is a religion. science = begin with observations and questions, compose a hypothesis, perform experiments, observe the results and draw a conclusion ... repeat if necessary. Science(tm) = begin with a conclusion, select data that backs that conclusion, tar dissenters as heretics It's pretty obvious that Science(tm) resembles religion more than it resembles science. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262943Sat, 01 May 2021 11:50:37 -00002099262943@Uncensored

Thanos was right.

I just dont want to be in the 1/2 that vanishes :) 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262939Sat, 01 May 2021 11:26:32 -00002099262939@Uncensored

I see the point, but to me Agnostics are people that dont have the balls to make a decision. 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262911Sat, 01 May 2021 05:42:55 -00002099262911@Uncensored

I don't care what any of y'all believe.

I absolutely will defend your right to believe it. 

I am atheist.

I am what most people would call Transgender. (My definition of myself is at variance with that)

This thing with Pascal, and gambling...

It seems to me there are for too many outcomes for the religious, to convince me that I'm wrong.

I am unable to understand the need of the religious to believe they will exist after death, in whatever form that takes.

That I think the need for further existence is a vanity should be irrelevant to you, in exactly the same way that your belief I'm damned is irrelevant to me.

I'm not an evangelical atheist, I keep my unbelief (mostly) to myself.

"Mostly" because I'm not ashamed  of it, and will talk about in a relevant setting, but I don't tend to start those conversations.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262902Sat, 01 May 2021 04:39:40 -00002099262902@Uncensored

And again... I think that science is wrong. They've actually set up the test for intelligent design. 

I've said it already in this conversation. 

Heliocentric orbit was used by Atheists almost immediately as a proof that the Bible is wrong - the Earth is not the center of the universe - it isn't even in a solar system that is special or unique - and that the more evidence that we are not special, the more the belief in God is *falsified*. 

And they're right. 

But then - if we start to find out that there is some sort of condition that means in the vastness of the entire universe, we are almost certainly the ONLY intelligent, sentient life to ever arise over billions of years - if we don't find any other current life, or evidence of other advanced, sentient life that didn't make it - some failed ruins of an ancient society - even something just like primitive cavemen who had the beginnings of social constructs like organized, ceremonial burial... 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262900Sat, 01 May 2021 04:32:28 -00002099262900@Uncensored

I'd call that an agnostic. They're skeptics because they don't believe there is compelling evidence - the ones of this ilk are usually pretty reasonable. They don't generally try to evangelize. 

But - yes, science HAS become a religion. 

The learned and practiced hold sacred knowledge that they believe the unwashed masses cannot understand. They tell us that we must accept their interpretation of things and that if we do not, we are unclean, deplorable, superstitious, a threat to society. The masses hang on the edicts of those who are learned - The Reverend Fauci and his fellow initiates. World leaders tell us that their opinions are *settled* and *irrefutable*. There is corruption and collusion between the Church of Science and the State to manipulate and control society - for its own good and well being of course. 

Celebrity Scientists like failed aerospace engineer Bill Nye and Neil Tyson Degrasse are presented as expert authorities in gender studies, in climate scie

Fri Apr 30 2021 21:44:25 EDT from Nurb432

And that was not a trick question.   I dont consider it a religion, due to 'scientific method'.  Even if you 'prove' a wrong theory, the process was followed.   Religion, does not have that.

Many ( not all, i fully realize ) Atheists are the same way,  in that you cant use scientific method for 'belief in a deity'.   So for them its not a religion based on non-belief, just a fact based on current scientific understanding and practice.  But, they would have to be wiling to accept new theories if they are 'proven'.  

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262897Sat, 01 May 2021 04:19:23 -00002099262897@Uncensored

This is why I'm kind of bullish on the vaccine OR the virus seriously thinning the herd. 


The 80/20 thing means that the 80% that has zero net contribution to humanity is what... about 5.5 billion people. That is too much dead weight for the other  2.5 billion people on the planet to carry. 

 

Fri Apr 30 2021 17:42:06 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

And as long as people keep buying it, they'll keep doing it.
Think of all the things people are paying monthly for now that they could own forever not too long ago.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262890Sat, 01 May 2021 01:44:25 -00002099262890@Uncensored

And that was not a trick question.   I dont consider it a religion, due to 'scientific method'.  Even if you 'prove' a wrong theory, the process was followed.   Religion, does not have that.

Many ( not all, i fully realize ) Atheists are the same way,  in that you cant use scientific method for 'belief in a deity'.   So for them its not a religion based on non-belief, just a fact based on current scientific understanding and practice.  But, they would have to be wiling to accept new theories if they are 'proven'.  

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262867Fri, 30 Apr 2021 21:04:05 -00002099262867@Uncensored

Do you consider science a religion?

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262863Fri, 30 Apr 2021 20:45:53 -00002099262863@Uncensored

I've had atheists go on to argue that I'm an idiot because "atheist" literally means "without religion". 

Exactly the same way Antifa means "Anti-fascist". 

 

Fri Apr 30 2021 11:54:54 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Atheists don't "break free". They replace one dogmatic set of
unsupported beliefs with the polar opposite set of dogmatic and

This is correct. Atheism is a religion, not the absence of religion.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262832Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:54:54 -00002099262832@UncensoredAtheists don't "break free". They replace one dogmatic set of >unsupported beliefs with the polar opposite set of dogmatic and This is correct. Atheism is a religion, not the absence of religion. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262831Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:53:31 -00002099262831@UncensoredJesus Christ...  Yes. Everything else: No. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262825Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:14:46 -00002099262825@Uncensored

Fair enough. I'm probably with them on that. 

Personally, I don't think the singular focus among modern Christians on LGBT lifestyles and abortion have any actual biblical foundation for being their consuming issues. 

Corinthians makes it pretty clear that they should be worrying about their OWN behaviors - not the behaviors of anyone outside of their church. But - that one is way more difficult to apply personally in their lives than pointing their fingers at other people and screaming, "DIRTY SINNERS!" 

 

Fri Apr 30 2021 09:49:28 EDT from Nurb432

Most of my LGBT friends do believe in a God, just dont subscribe to most organized 'religions'. 

For me to, they are radically different things. 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262823Fri, 30 Apr 2021 15:12:53 -00002099262823@Uncensored

No. According to your strawman interpretation of what I said gays are atheists so they don't have to worry about hell, and priests believe in hell so they shouldn't molest children. 

What I said and how you parsed it through your own biases have no relation to one another. 


The Church of Satanism is now actually an ATHEIST organization - and one of their primary missions is LGBT advocacy. Look it up. It isn't that they worship Satan - (They don't, they don't believe in him...) it isn't that they don't believe in God, either. It is that they want to OFFEND Christians and oppose Christianity - as a whole, instead of the particular denominations and congregations that have planted their flag on the hill of homosexuality. 

THAT is what I said, it is what I've been saying - and your biases make you incapable of reading what I'm saying with comprehension on this topic, so when I say that, you hear me say, 


"All gays are atheists so they can justify bug

Care to circle the floor for another waltz of this dance, or are you ready to change the tempo? 

Fri Apr 30 2021 06:42:55 EDT from zooer

 

Thu Apr 29 2021 10:13:47 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

How do you explain atheists molesting children or having affairs? 

That is a non-sequitur. Humans doing shitty things that humans do has no relevance to this conversation. 

It is not non-sequitur, follow your statements.

  

Thu Apr 29 2021 04:22:33 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

I do always wonder what it is that the Atheist does that they're so invested in a world where this is IT and there is nothing after. I think this is why Atheism has such a strong base among LGBTs. It is actually a sort of reverse acknowledgment of the anti-gay doctrines of the Christian church. If you deny God exists, then you don't have to feel shame or guilt or concern about your sexual orientation. That is the investment... "I want to live this life the way I want to, and this religion says that will cause me to go to hell, so I deny that religion's God." 

 Now, according to what you wrote, gays are atheists so they don't have to worry about hell.  if priest believe in hell how come they molest children and have affairs? 

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262809Fri, 30 Apr 2021 13:49:28 -00002099262809@Uncensored

Most of my LGBT friends do believe in a God, just dont subscribe to most organized 'religions'. 

For me to, they are radically different things. 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262790Fri, 30 Apr 2021 10:42:55 -00002099262790@Uncensored

 

Thu Apr 29 2021 10:13:47 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

How do you explain atheists molesting children or having affairs? 

That is a non-sequitur. Humans doing shitty things that humans do has no relevance to this conversation. 

It is not non-sequitur, follow your statements.

  

Thu Apr 29 2021 04:22:33 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

I do always wonder what it is that the Atheist does that they're so invested in a world where this is IT and there is nothing after. I think this is why Atheism has such a strong base among LGBTs. It is actually a sort of reverse acknowledgment of the anti-gay doctrines of the Christian church. If you deny God exists, then you don't have to feel shame or guilt or concern about your sexual orientation. That is the investment... "I want to live this life the way I want to, and this religion says that will cause me to go to hell, so I deny that religion's God." 

 Now, according to what you wrote, gays are atheists so they don't have to worry about hell.  if priest believe in hell how come they molest children and have affairs? 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262735Fri, 30 Apr 2021 02:13:47 -00002099262735@Uncensored

How do you explain atheists molesting children or having affairs? 

That is a non-sequitur. Humans doing shitty things that humans do has no relevance to this conversation. 

Atheists don't "break free". They replace one dogmatic set of unsupported beliefs with the polar opposite set of dogmatic and unsupported beliefs - and then take every chance to evangelize to everyone around them that they have "broken free," and that anyone else who hasn't broken free still suffers the "yoke of superstitious belief." 

 Belief in Santa, God, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster has MORE chance of a meaningful payoff under the rules of Pascal's Wager than *atheism*. It is a simple statement that really exists separate of the Christian church - no matter HOW badly you want to draw the conversation in that direction - where it is more comfortable for you to mount a defense of Atheism. 

 

Thu Apr 29 2021 21:01:26 EDT from zooer

ParanoidDelusions, How do you explain priests/ministers molesting children or having affairs?

 

The only reason why people believe in what they believe is because their parents told them to believe the nonsense.  Atheists decided to break free.  Sure some people join other religions but the most part people that believe in a heaven and hell do so because mom, dad and the church put fear in them to control them.

Santa Claus is watching.... God is watching.

Be good or rot in hell.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262731Fri, 30 Apr 2021 01:01:26 -00002099262731@Uncensored

ParanoidDelusions, How do you explain priests/ministers molesting children or having affairs?

 

The only reason why people believe in what they believe is because their parents told them to believe the nonsense.  Atheists decided to break free.  Sure some people join other religions but the most part people that believe in a heaven and hell do so because mom, dad and the church put fear in them to control them.

Santa Claus is watching.... God is watching.

Be good or rot in hell.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262696Thu, 29 Apr 2021 20:22:33 -00002099262696@Uncensored

I do always wonder what it is that the Atheist does that they're so invested in a world where this is IT and there is nothing after. I think this is why Atheism has such a strong base among LGBTs. It is actually a sort of reverse acknowledgment of the anti-gay doctrines of the Christian church. If you deny God exists, then you don't have to feel shame or guilt or concern about your sexual orientation. That is the investment... "I want to live this life the way I want to, and this religion says that will cause me to go to hell, so I deny that religion's God." 

I kind of understand that response. Really, it isn't JUST LGBT members. A lot of Atheists are hedonists and swingers, too. There are lifestyle-orientations that make it desirable to have a particular God *not* exist. But it is mostly the lifestyle orientation that is framing the Atheism... Atheism is the enabler. The orientation is likely what made the individual seek out the ideology. People seek out an existential framing of reality in

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262692Thu, 29 Apr 2021 19:50:42 -00002099262692@Uncensored

Here are the payouts: 

Atheist: Bet Against God: 

Win: You get nothing, and you never know. You know nothing. You are nothing. 

Lose: You live eternity knowing you lost, at the very LEAST - and at the worst, you live eternity knowing you lost, and suffering tremendous unending torment for losing. 

Theist: Bet For God: 

Lose: You get nothing, and you never know. You know nothing. You are nothing. 

Win: 

A: Betting on God was all it took. You live eternity in happiness and peace and bliss. Atheists have to empty your chamber-pot. You fill it every 5 minutes - for all of eternity - it is no inconvenience for you. It is terrible for the atheists. 

B: You bet on the wrong God. You live eternity in the same suffering and torment as atheists - but at least you're aware that you weren't an idiot who made the WORST bet... you made the worst WINNING bet. You placed show, not dead last. 

C: It is some other sp

 

Thu Apr 29 2021 15:29:28 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

And the ALTERNATE wager is "Betting on Intelligent Design and a chain of awareness that includes consciousness after physical death." 

As I've said, there are lots of *numbers* you can place your bet on, on this side of the table, as opposed to the singular bet on the OTHER end of the table - Atheists have ONE unified bet. It is ALL a single space on your end of the table, a black "00" that you place your bet on, and win, you'll never know you won - but *by definition* if you LOSE - you do find THAT out. 

Pascal's wager is a bet for or against God. You lose and Theism wins. It isn't about Christianity vs. Atheism - it is about Intelligent Creation and an Afterlife vs. Atheism and a random, meaningless universe. 

It is like you guys aren't actually reading my posts. 

But, Atheists generally seem more fixated on being angrily ANTI-Christian than in not believing in CREATION - so I'm honestly not surprised that you

 

Thu Apr 29 2021 10:20:16 EDT from darknetuser

Your response is, perhaps unintentionally - a red herring. I'm
talking about traditional Abrahamic Christian perspectives here
because that has been where the conversation has centered around -

and it becomes unwieldy to discuss every possibility proposed by
every spiritual tradition here in this conversation. It ties up and

side-tracks the conversation. If we WANT to evolve it in that
direction - I suppose that is fine... but I've already discussed
those possibilities in broad and vague language in my expansion of

why engaging in Pascal's Wager with a bet AGAINST "God" is a bad
idea. 

I think you are cheating here.

You frame the wager from a Christian point of view in order to portray it as the only reasonable course of action which it is only within an Abrahamic frame. Then somebody suggests that the wage stops being attractive when such assumptions are not taken and you say such things are out of the conversation's scope.

It could be argued that by betting on Abraham's God you are just condemmning yourself to more suffering by postponing trascendence if it turns there is any truth to Buddhism, for example.

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262689Thu, 29 Apr 2021 19:29:28 -00002099262689@Uncensored

Jesus Christ... 

First off, I've framed it, intentionally vaguely from a THEISTIC perspective as open to NON-Christian interpretation. 

As well as pointing out, a number of times, that the best description of me would be a "Secular Protestant". 

I think I've also explicitly said that the way I am framing it tends to upset Christians as much as atheists, because it doesn't reflect their specific doctrines, dogmas and beliefs. 

I'm approaching it from a *secular* philosophical view. 


Let me be absolutely *specific* 

The wager is... 

Deny intelligent creation and a chain of awareness that includes the consciousness existing after physical death - is the Atheist bet. Period. If you're an Atheist, this is the wager you've bet at Pascal's table. 

IF you are right - the payout is that you don't get ANYTHING. Literally. Your payout is not existing to know you won. This isn't framed from a CHRISTIAN perspective, o

 

Thu Apr 29 2021 10:20:16 EDT from darknetuser

Your response is, perhaps unintentionally - a red herring. I'm
talking about traditional Abrahamic Christian perspectives here
because that has been where the conversation has centered around -

and it becomes unwieldy to discuss every possibility proposed by
every spiritual tradition here in this conversation. It ties up and

side-tracks the conversation. If we WANT to evolve it in that
direction - I suppose that is fine... but I've already discussed
those possibilities in broad and vague language in my expansion of

why engaging in Pascal's Wager with a bet AGAINST "God" is a bad
idea. 

I think you are cheating here.

You frame the wager from a Christian point of view in order to portray it as the only reasonable course of action which it is only within an Abrahamic frame. Then somebody suggests that the wage stops being attractive when such assumptions are not taken and you say such things are out of the conversation's scope.

It could be argued that by betting on Abraham's God you are just condemmning yourself to more suffering by postponing trascendence if it turns there is any truth to Buddhism, for example.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262628Thu, 29 Apr 2021 15:01:13 -00002099262628@UncensoredThey're the ones with picket signs making girls cross through protest >lines to get abortions, too.  That is cruel to both the mother and the baby. It's better to just bomb the clinic and go home. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262625Thu, 29 Apr 2021 14:59:35 -00002099262625@UncensoredThey had the obligatory keyboard in the back, but on stage they had a >glass box, with a drum kit in it...  and cooling fans for who ever That's because the drums are too loud relative to the rest of the band. Without the screen we have to turn everyone else way up, and then the whole room is uncomfortably loud. It may be great music, but it is after all a worship service, not a stadium concert. mmmmmmmm... pancakes ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262619Thu, 29 Apr 2021 14:20:16 -00002099262619@UncensoredYour response is, perhaps unintentionally - a red herring. I'm >talking about traditional Abrahamic Christian perspectives here >because that has been where the conversation has centered around - >and it becomes unwieldy to discuss every possibility proposed by >every spiritual tradition here in this conversation. It ties up and >side-tracks the conversation. If we WANT to evolve it in that >direction - I suppose that is fine... but I've already discussed >those possibilities in broad and vague language in my expansion of >why engaging in Pascal's Wager with a bet AGAINST "God" is a bad >idea.  > I think you are cheating here. You frame the wager from a Christian point of view in order to portray it as the only reasonable course of action which it is only within an Abrahamic frame. Then somebody suggests that the wage stops being attractive when such assumptions are not taken and you say such things are out of the conversation's scope. It could be argued that by betting on Abraham's God you are just condemmning yourself to more suffering by postponing trascendence if it turns there is any truth to Buddhism, for example. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262436Wed, 28 Apr 2021 14:20:49 -00002099262436@Uncensored

I think there is simply terrible hubris on both sides of the aisle, and a desire to argue  each individual side from the point of complete rejection of the other side. 

Atheists and Theists both spend most of their time locked in a battle of trying to AVOID any decent arguments the other side makes. Theists tend to make it difficult by arguing in transparent circular arguments by offering circular logic as evidence. Atheists tend to use subtle circular logic convinced that it is scientific method - when really, it is little more than faith. 

I think there is a *lot* of evidence of Intelligent Design, immediate and more cosmic. It isn't *strong* evidence, but it isn't weak evidence either. 


One example. The whole reason that the early Church rejected heliocentric orbit was because it created a conflict that Earth was at the center of the universe, alone, unique and *special* among the heavens in God's creation. If you moved us out to a planet among many orbiting a

Wed Apr 28 2021 06:40:12 EDT from Nurb432 Subject: Re: forum religion

Or beat them in to submission?

( just kidding )

Wed Apr 28 2021 12:36:02 AM EDT from test2 Subject: forum religion

over the years I've found that forum religion is an absolutely useless endeavor. much text expended and nothing ever comes of it.  no minds changed. maybe a little info passed to friendly observers but otherwise, don't bother.  now, in person, that's another story completely.  that is where you can demonstrate the meaning of "vain" by its opposite. (vain means without power). 

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262403Wed, 28 Apr 2021 10:40:12 -00002099262403@Uncensored

Or beat them in to submission?

( just kidding )

Wed Apr 28 2021 12:36:02 AM EDT from test2 Subject: forum religion

over the years I've found that forum religion is an absolutely useless endeavor. much text expended and nothing ever comes of it.  no minds changed. maybe a little info passed to friendly observers but otherwise, don't bother.  now, in person, that's another story completely.  that is where you can demonstrate the meaning of "vain" by its opposite. (vain means without power). 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262359Wed, 28 Apr 2021 05:52:41 -00002099262359@Uncensored

I've said a number of times I was raised a Protestant. Stop the assumption that only Catholics think that if you reject Jesus and the Abrahamic God that you'll suffer torment for eternity. 

Personally, I'm a very non-traditional Protestant - and include a lot of Taoism in my personal spirituality, and very little organized theocracy or religious doctrine in it. 

Your response is, perhaps unintentionally - a red herring. I'm talking about traditional Abrahamic Christian perspectives here because that has been where the conversation has centered around - and it becomes unwieldy to discuss every possibility proposed by every spiritual tradition here in this conversation. It ties up and side-tracks the conversation. If we WANT to evolve it in that direction - I suppose that is fine... but I've already discussed those possibilities in broad and vague language in my expansion of why engaging in Pascal's Wager with a bet AGAINST "God" is a bad idea. 


Here is what I said

You are caught up in *theology* and not the metaphysical philosophy of a creator. 

There are infinite variables, of course, and you *could* end up screwed. But, it could be that ALL faith in *good faith* appeases an all powerful creator. Perhaps just the faith that there is something omnipotent and real is enough to get you up for consideration. Maybe good deeds do count - as long as they were done in faith of an afterlife, of a greater purpose. Maybe even the Atheist can get a break, if certain conditions are met. There is a spread on this side of the table, and the possibility of multiple winning hands. 

But the Atheist *bets* on there being NOTHING hereafter. So, if you WIN - you don't know. Your reward is ceasing to exist completely. No signal, no soul, not even darkness. Just an end to being. 

If you bet on God and lose, you just cease to exist. If you bet AGAINST God and win, you just cease to exist. 

B

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Without going into specifics - that paragraph acknowledges that there are various permutations of theological and metaphysical belief in INTELLIGENT CREATION of the Universe and even states that it is possible that you could place a wager on God Exists and still get it WRONG.... I've already acknowledged that a bet on God could still be a bet on the WRONG God. 

A bet on atheism remains a bet where the payout is simply not knowing you won or lost. 

Reincarnation is a tricky one. The basic premise is that you keep getting a do-over until you get it right and achieve Nirvana. Effectively, because you're a complete reset, it is very similar to the Atheist concept of winking out - but there is a bit to that doctrine about you *actually* having the opportunity to learn from your previous life, and of there being both forward and negative possibil

Tue Apr 27 2021 15:02:25 EDT from zooer

 

Tue Apr 27 2021 12:02:29 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

---SNIP----
But the Atheist *bets* on there being NOTHING hereafter. So, if you WIN - you don't know. Your reward is ceasing to exist completely. No signal, no soul, not even darkness. Just an end to being. 

But if you bet on God and win - you get to carry on - and if you bet on God and lose - you ALSO get to carry on - but presumably *miserable* for eternity. 
---SNIP---

 

Why is that the only choice? A religion has to have a hell?  Many religions don't have a hell, what if they are the correct religion?  What about being reincarnated?  

To say that Atheists will burn in hell for all eternity could be wrong.  What if they are just reincarnated into an alter boy?

Stop the assumption that Catholicism is the one true religion.

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262357Wed, 28 Apr 2021 05:40:37 -00002099262357@Uncensored

Listen... 

There aren't jokes about Vegans, Crossfitters and CHRISTIANS coming into the bar and everyone there knowing about it 5 minutes later... 

Or really any other religions. 

I mean... the Evangelical Christian Fundamentalists - there are the "Do you have a few moments to talk about Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior" gags... 

But - maybe that is part of it... 

I get the feeling MOST atheists have a concept of Christianity that is mostly focused on the Far Right Moral Majority Evangelical Christian Fundamentalist/Baptist movements, which, as I acknowledged above, are what a good 98% of the super-churches in America are. They're also lumping JWs and 7thDE and Mormons who show up at their doors in with this. 

They're the ones with picket signs making girls cross through protest lines to get abortions, too. 

But trust me... Atheists - especially ONLINE - are the other extreme from this. The whole Dawkins "New

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262335Wed, 28 Apr 2021 04:36:02 -00002099262335@Uncensored

over the years I've found that forum religion is an absolutely useless endeavor. much text expended and nothing ever comes of it.  no minds changed. maybe a little info passed to friendly observers but otherwise, don't bother.  now, in person, that's another story completely.  that is where you can demonstrate the meaning of "vain" by its opposite. (vain means without power). 

Sometimes christian testimonies in forums can be fun but they pretty quickly (a week or two) diminish.  most "religions" aren't testimony friendly.  you read a few amazing testimonies and after the 4th one everyone gets numb.  it's more fun to just go out and do what we're supposed to do in real time with other people you meet "on the way".  

christian church in the west is mostly a business.  it's hard to distinguish between them by the behavior during the gathering.  sit in a catholic mass turn the sound off and watch.  sit in a baptist gathering turn the sound off and watch.  after you've been to 15 or 20 different denominations watching the proceedings- you wind up with about 3 groupings of gatherings.

1- traditional; liturgy, stand up, sit down (kneel), talk, music, exit, pancake house

2- contemporary; lights, fog lamps, intro, music, music, talk, music, music, exit, pancake house 

3- talk, music, music, wamba zamba hoopa doopa rollaround bark bark bark giggle giggle, music, music, talk, exit, pancake house.

none of them are actually in scripture.  well, wamba zamba might be but thats at peoples homes (no bark bark bark allowed)

I like to drop in unexpectedly on congregations. occasionally i get spotted, much fun always ensues (im in person and not vain)

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262279Tue, 27 Apr 2021 23:03:32 -00002099262279@Uncensored

Went to my daughter in-law's wedding at my wives church.   ( perhaps 6 years ago )

They had the obligatory keyboard in the back, but on stage they had a glass box, with a drum kit in it...  and cooling fans for who ever sits in it..    Rather odd. 

 

Tue Apr 27 2021 06:56:03 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I always used fender amps. 

Actually, at home all I have is a 15 watt Fender Sidekick. When I play electric guitar at church I just go right into the sound system. My effects pedal has all of the amp modeling built in. But our new worship leader prefers to have me on keyboards instead [ https://www.instagram.com/p/CNYwyrHhmBh/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet ].

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262275Tue, 27 Apr 2021 22:59:57 -00002099262275@Uncensored

If you don't have an instagram or a facebook account you can not see that.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262273Tue, 27 Apr 2021 22:56:03 -00002099262273@UncensoredI always used fender amps.  Actually, at home all I have is a 15 watt Fender Sidekick. When I play electric guitar at church I just go right into the sound system. My effects pedal has all of the amp modeling built in. But our new worship leader prefers to have me on keyboards instead [ https://www.instagram.com/p/CNYwyrHhmBh/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet ]. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262190Tue, 27 Apr 2021 19:02:25 -00002099262190@Uncensored

 

Tue Apr 27 2021 12:02:29 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

---SNIP----
But the Atheist *bets* on there being NOTHING hereafter. So, if you WIN - you don't know. Your reward is ceasing to exist completely. No signal, no soul, not even darkness. Just an end to being. 

But if you bet on God and win - you get to carry on - and if you bet on God and lose - you ALSO get to carry on - but presumably *miserable* for eternity. 
---SNIP---

 

Why is that the only choice? A religion has to have a hell?  Many religions don't have a hell, what if they are the correct religion?  What about being reincarnated?  

To say that Atheists will burn in hell for all eternity could be wrong.  What if they are just reincarnated into an alter boy?

Stop the assumption that Catholicism is the one true religion.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262167Tue, 27 Apr 2021 17:11:38 -00002099262167@Uncensored

I always used fender amps. 

Considering ditching my gear tho.  all it does is collect dust.  Not touched any of it in perhaps 30 years other than move it around when its in the way. 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262150Tue, 27 Apr 2021 14:43:55 -00002099262150@UncensoredAlso, your services are too loosely structured and chaotic and loud >and interactive for our tastes.  Sorry, I couldn't hear you over my Marshall stack. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262138Tue, 27 Apr 2021 13:20:58 -00002099262138@Uncensored

All the ones i know, are not.

I know a lot miserable religious people however. Desperately trying to find something larger than themselves to cling onto, something to believe. "not here long, better be good or ill get punished"

Most atheists dont need that in their life. "not here long, might as well be a good person" is more the motto

 

of course there are always exceptions..

 

Tue Apr 27 2021 12:02:29 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Of course, most atheists tend to be fairly miserable people.

  

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262116Tue, 27 Apr 2021 10:18:23 -00002099262116@Uncensored

 

Tue Apr 27 2021 12:02:29 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Of course, most atheists tend to be fairly miserable people.

 

I don't think this generalization is true.  Most generalizations are not true.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262079Tue, 27 Apr 2021 04:15:23 -00002099262079@Uncensored

Also, your services are too loosely structured and chaotic and loud and interactive for our tastes. 

Worship shouldn't generally be entertaining. It should be a little bit like a chore, duty or lecture. If it is difficult to fall asleep during services, they're being held too loudly and probably disturbing God. 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262077Tue, 27 Apr 2021 04:12:53 -00002099262077@Uncensored

Well, from the Catholic perspective - you're just a branch of the Protestants, for sure. You're certainly not THEIR fault. They have enough guilt to bear already without taking on responsibility for that one. 

But as a Protestant, let me assure you - *we* don't really consider you *Protestants*. Too many guitars, folk songs, tambourines, snake handling, talking-in-tongues and other decidedly NON-Anglican and Non Western European traditions with the born-again Fundamentalist evangelicals. The whole witnessing thing that is real big among those denominations seems very rude, pushy, and aggressive to us. To us, you're almost like the 7DEs, JWs and LDS. We think of you as Southern rednecks  or Hippy cultists living in communal compounds. 

Decidedly - you're the biggest BRANCHES of Christianity popular in America today - and most of your SUPER-MEGAMART churches that are more like rockshows than services are part of the Southern Evangelical Fundamentalist variety. 

You're no

Sun Apr 25 2021 17:06:18 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

If you don't think of yourself as a Protestant, you probably aren't -
especially if you think of it merely as a religious denomination or

Good. I consider myself a bog standard fundamentalist evangelical Christian.
Catholics believe that they are the only ones who can identify that way and everyone else is a "protestant". People who make that argument are often rude and bullheaded because they insist that the early Church and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same. They aren't, of course -- the RCC came into existence about 200 years *after* the death and resurrection of Christ, and Peter was *not* a pope.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099262076Tue, 27 Apr 2021 04:02:29 -00002099262076@Uncensored

You are caught up in *theology* and not the metaphysical philosophy of a creator. 

There are infinite variables, of course, and you *could* end up screwed. But, it could be that ALL faith in *good faith* appeases an all powerful creator. Perhaps just the faith that there is something omnipotent and real is enough to get you up for consideration. Maybe good deeds do count - as long as they were done in faith of an afterlife, of a greater purpose. Maybe even the Atheist can get a break, if certain conditions are met. There is a spread on this side of the table, and the possibility of multiple winning hands. 

But the Atheist *bets* on there being NOTHING hereafter. So, if you WIN - you don't know. Your reward is ceasing to exist completely. No signal, no soul, not even darkness. Just an end to being. 

If you bet on God and lose, you just cease to exist. If you bet AGAINST God and win, you just cease to exist. 

But if you bet on God and win - you get to carry on

Thu Apr 22 2021 14:13:51 EDT from darknetuser

That said - at the very least I think atheism is a bad Pascal's
wager. If you've bet right, you'll never know. If you've bet wrong,

you'll spend eternity suffering fully aware that you lost the best. 

I call bullshit on the wager.

If you bet on Abraham's God and it turns out the real God is Zrock the Skull Crusher, you are screwed.

It can be theorized that God likes atheists more than religious people, and will end up throwing religious people into the flames because those are dudes stupid enough to believe whatever without proper evidence.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099261884Sun, 25 Apr 2021 21:24:15 -00002099261884@Uncensored If you bet on Abraham's God and it turns out the real God is Zrock the >Skull Crusher, you are screwed. I'm ok with that. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is so evident to me in His existence that it isn't even worth thinking about. And that's what a lot of people miss: when you spend enough time in prayer and actually establish a *relationship* with the living God, He will make His presence pretty obvious to you. The same cannot be said for Zrock, FSM, Allah, Vishnu, Buddha, etc. etc. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099261883Sun, 25 Apr 2021 21:20:04 -00002099261883@UncensoredBegin an atheist is so much easier. You dont have to figure out what >version of something you are, or be told...   its pretty much black >and white.  Sort of. There are different versions but not quite as many names. Atheism is a religion which insists that there is no God. Among those people, you've got your super-militant atheists who insist that non-atheists are clinically insane, you've got the people who just don't care and are cool with whatever you believe in, and you've got the agnostic types who figure there may or may not be a God and maybe they'll figure it out later, and all sorts of in-betweens. And of course, there's the not-so-small matter of atheism only being "easier" temporarily. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099261880Sun, 25 Apr 2021 21:06:18 -00002099261880@UncensoredIf you don't think of yourself as a Protestant, you probably aren't - >especially if you think of it merely as a religious denomination or Good. I consider myself a bog standard fundamentalist evangelical Christian. Catholics believe that they are the only ones who can identify that way and everyone else is a "protestant". People who make that argument are often rude and bullheaded because they insist that the early Church and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same. They aren't, of course -- the RCC came into existence about 200 years *after* the death and resurrection of Christ, and Peter was *not* a pope. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099261361Thu, 22 Apr 2021 18:13:51 -00002099261361@UncensoredThat said - at the very least I think atheism is a bad Pascal's >wager. If you've bet right, you'll never know. If you've bet wrong, >you'll spend eternity suffering fully aware that you lost the best.  > I call bullshit on the wager. If you bet on Abraham's God and it turns out the real God is Zrock the Skull Crusher, you are screwed. It can be theorized that God likes atheists more than religious people, and will end up throwing religious people into the flames because those are dudes stupid enough to believe whatever without proper evidence. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099261274Thu, 22 Apr 2021 02:02:12 -00002099261274@Uncensored

But again... WASP isn't so much a religious identity as an ethnic identity and culture. Church, for MOST people, is just a place to reinforce shared cultural values - kind of like team sports. 

Come in, the ushers give you the bulletin, walk you down the pews to your seat, you file in, sit down. The officiator comes in, whatever he is called. You stand, you sing an opening hymn. It is in a PARTICULAR style depending on your church. Guitars and Tambourines, Pipe Organs and wailing old ladies singing in high falsettos, some variation. You all sit down. The Pastor reads a prayer, you do you part. He tells an anecdote and some news about the church ladies visiting Israel. Another hymn... More standing, more sitting. A sermon, with some bible read along. You eat some bread, or crackers, or biscuits, drink some grape juice or wine. They talk about the boiler needing replacement, or the roof. They pass around the plate. You throw some money in. Another Hymn. The ushers come and usher you out. There i

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099261273Thu, 22 Apr 2021 01:40:24 -00002099261273@Uncensored

Most secual whatevers are basically agnostic. We find God whenever we're in trouble, and otherwise, we ignore Him and hope He isn't paying attention to what *we* are doing, either. 

That said - at the very least I think atheism is a bad Pascal's wager. If you've bet right, you'll never know. If you've bet wrong, you'll spend eternity suffering fully aware that you lost the best. 

Better to be a bad Christian and hope for forgiveness than a Good atheist and end up alongside the bad Christian in Hell listening to him tell you, "we told you so..." for all eternity. 

And that has to be an atheist's hell. Being stuck with all the Christians who weren't good enough to make to to paradise hearing, "An atheist, a cross fitter and a vegan all walked into a bar," jokes for eternity. 

 

Wed Apr 21 2021 16:04:35 EDT from Nurb432

Begin an atheist is so much easier. You dont have to figure out what version of something you are, or be told...   its pretty much black and white. 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099261238Wed, 21 Apr 2021 20:04:35 -00002099261238@Uncensored

Begin an atheist is so much easier. You dont have to figure out what version of something you are, or be told...   its pretty much black and white. 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099261232Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:49:01 -00002099261232@Uncensored

Although it might be fair to describe me as a SECULAR (White Anglo Saxon) Protestant - which ties in with the thing about secular Jews. 

They tend to get along quite well and make good neighbors. They're both "Worry about your own affairs, and keep those affairs private," cultures. 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099261230Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:45:36 -00002099261230@Uncensored

It isn't so much a description of the religious heritage, as the culture. More than a Protestant, I'm an *English* Protestant. 

It means something specific. It is basically an ethnicity. It is part of the reason why I am frequently mistaken for a local when I visit London. 

If you don't think of yourself as a Protestant, you probably aren't - especially if you think of it merely as a religious denomination or affiliation. 

It is also a thing where yes, most of the stereotypes exist for a reason. 

Tue Apr 20 2021 18:31:35 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I've been a Protestant my whole life. 

I reject the term "Protestant". It implies that the roman catholic "church" was one-and-the-same as the early Church founded in the Great Commission.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099261094Tue, 20 Apr 2021 22:31:35 -00002099261094@UncensoredI've been a Protestant my whole life.  I reject the term "Protestant". It implies that the roman catholic "church" was one-and-the-same as the early Church founded in the Great Commission. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099259409Wed, 07 Apr 2021 18:54:10 -00002099259409@Uncensored

Her's was not on her face, it was on the base of her spine there at her skull so she could cover it with hair.    She at least had enough sense to have them where she could cover them up if need be. "unemployable" wasn't an option.

Arms and legs, you could see with normal "street" clothing. but others you could not see without permission.

Wed Apr 07 2021 01:03:04 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Face tattoos used to be a sure sign of someone who didn't plan on taking too many trips around the sun. 

These days, the guy might be the CEO of a startup in San Jose. 

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099259406Wed, 07 Apr 2021 18:46:08 -00002099259406@Uncensored 2021-04-07 01:03 from ParanoidDelusions >Face tattoos used to be a sure sign of someone who didn't plan on >taking too many trips around the sun.  There's this climber girl who used to hang around the Gunks who had teh awesomest tribal face tattoo. Very much like Chakotay on Star Trek: Voyager, if you need a point of reference. It's not what it used to be... ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099259319Wed, 07 Apr 2021 05:03:04 -00002099259319@Uncensored

Face tattoos used to be a sure sign of someone who didn't plan on taking too many trips around the sun. 

These days, the guy might be the CEO of a startup in San Jose. 

 

Sun Apr 04 2021 18:11:20 EDT from Nurb432

Friend of mine ( who is no longer with us ) was pretty much head to toe.  Not 'blanketed' but had them all over. 

 

Wed Mar 31 2021 14:20:24 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

She could have Mother Theresa's virtue and Claudia Schiffer's body - I'd still find a tattoo on her unattractive and unappealing. 

 

Wed Mar 31 2021 10:43:49 EDT from LoanShark

[ one of the most Christian women I know is tattooed. One of my ex-flirtations. ]

 

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099259074Sun, 04 Apr 2021 22:11:20 -00002099259074@Uncensored

Friend of mine ( who is no longer with us ) was pretty much head to toe.  Not 'blanketed' but had them all over. 

 

Wed Mar 31 2021 14:20:24 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

She could have Mother Theresa's virtue and Claudia Schiffer's body - I'd still find a tattoo on her unattractive and unappealing. 

 

Wed Mar 31 2021 10:43:49 EDT from LoanShark

[ one of the most Christian women I know is tattooed. One of my ex-flirtations. ]

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099258596Wed, 31 Mar 2021 18:20:24 -00002099258596@Uncensored

She could have Mother Theresa's virtue and Claudia Schiffer's body - I'd still find a tattoo on her unattractive and unappealing. 

 

Wed Mar 31 2021 10:43:49 EDT from LoanShark

[ one of the most Christian women I know is tattooed. One of my ex-flirtations. ]

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099258571Wed, 31 Mar 2021 14:43:49 -00002099258571@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099258413Tue, 30 Mar 2021 00:12:53 -00002099258413@Uncensored

FWIW - my wife, a ranking executive - recently got a tattoo, on her lower, inner bicep. It is of a stylized hummingbird. 

I don't like it. I don't tell her I don't like it, she knows my opinions on ink, especially on girls. I managed to get through the entire punk and metal scene with only a small home-made cross on my upper shoulder that is so small it can be mistake for a mole. 

I've threatened to have it covered with a tattoo of me, getting a tattoo of me getting a tattoo. 

It startles me every time I see it. It is this alien black mark on her arm. My daughter drew the design, it is an homage to her grandmother - but, I certainly would have preferred some other method of self expression. 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099258363Mon, 29 Mar 2021 15:05:13 -00002099258363@Uncensored

The quote, I don't know where I first heard it, the rest is an observation about the fall of society.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099258351Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:37:41 -00002099258351@Uncensored 2021-03-27 15:24 from zooer >It is the in thing.  You are a freak if you don't have a tattoo.  I >consider it part of the fall of society.   > >When a society is on its way up, it emulates and wants to behave like >the upper class. >When a society is on its way down, it emulates the lower class. > >There are CEOs that don't wear business suits or look classy, they >wear hoodies, jeans and sneakers, what the blue color workers work >in.  At one time only prisoners had tattoos all over their bodies. > >Society is on the way down, it is emulating the lower class. > It is an interesting idea. How have you reached that conclusion? ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099258191Sat, 27 Mar 2021 19:24:18 -00002099258191@Uncensored

It is the in thing.  You are a freak if you don't have a tattoo.  I consider it part of the fall of society.  

When a society is on its way up, it emulates and wants to behave like the upper class.
When a society is on its way down, it emulates the lower class.

There are CEOs that don't wear business suits or look classy, they wear hoodies, jeans and sneakers, what the blue color workers work in.  At one time only prisoners had tattoos all over their bodies.

Society is on the way down, it is emulating the lower class.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099258161Sat, 27 Mar 2021 15:08:52 -00002099258161@Uncensored 2021-03-27 10:12 from nonservator >I'd like to go back to the wholesome days of the eighties when >strippers were classy enough to not have tattoos and piercings. > THIS Ten thousand times, THIS. Every girl nowadays is ruining her body with these things, it is depresing. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099258157Sat, 27 Mar 2021 14:12:17 -00002099258157@Uncensored

I'd like to go back to the wholesome days of the eighties when strippers were classy enough to not have tattoos and piercings.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099258124Fri, 26 Mar 2021 22:51:12 -00002099258124@Uncensored

No.Some only do it to keep food on the table, and do not take their work home.

Fri Mar 26 2021 13:47:00 EDT from zooer

>> the strippers all carry STDs 

Don't they all?

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099258088Fri, 26 Mar 2021 17:47:00 -00002099258088@Uncensored

>> the strippers all carry STDs 

Don't they all?

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099258076Fri, 26 Mar 2021 11:54:20 -00002099258076@Uncensored

There are also non alcoholic beverages that come out of the beer volcano. To accommodate children and people that dont drink beer.  Oh, and rest assured they wont be hot, like most volcanoes, its got air conditioning. 

 

:)

Thu Mar 25 2021 20:58:20 EDT from zooer

I don't like pasta, I don't drink, can I stay for the strippers?  Then again in the afterlife there probably are no consequences, so maybe I will enjoy a beer or two.

Is it for everybody or just for members of the FSM?

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099258074Fri, 26 Mar 2021 11:42:32 -00002099258074@Uncensored

Not real sure, it seems contradictory here.  You get your own version, but are doused with seasoned leftovers. I guess that isn't so bad, you get forever food.

Tho even the truly evil still gets beer and strippers.. Just not the good stuff. 

the Pastafarian Hell is similar to The Great Pasta Bowl, except the beverages are stale, the strippers all carry STDs and there are ugly aliens everywhere. It's located in the worst part of the Pasta Bowl that no-one likes. It is only truly evil people who get sent there (not non-believers in the FSM, as they will go to their own 'heaven' or version of it). All non FSM believers wil ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=2099258044Fri, 26 Mar 2021 00:58:20 -00002099258044@Uncensored

I don't like pasta, I don't drink, can I stay for the strippers?  Then again in the afterlife there probably are no consequences, so maybe I will enjoy a beer or two.

Is it for everybody or just for members of the FSM?

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4671947Fri, 19 Mar 2021 23:17:33 -00004671947@Uncensored

Wait, no drinking or sex? But i always heard the great pasta bowl in the afterlife had a beer volcano and stripper factory.... 

Now im confused. 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4671881Fri, 19 Mar 2021 13:47:38 -00004671881@Uncensored 2021-03-15 18:29 from zooer >Woa,woa, slow down.... you might have to give up drinking >and promiscuous sex. > I don't do much drinking and I could as well give up on sex entirely. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4671852Fri, 19 Mar 2021 00:54:44 -00004671852@Uncensored

It's not up to me, I would let you in, but I probably am not going to make it.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4671837Thu, 18 Mar 2021 20:03:38 -00004671837@Uncensored 2021-03-15 18:29 from zooer >Woa,woa, slow down.... you might have to give up drinking >and promiscuous sex. > oh snap. does this mean I am not going to be let into the kingdom? ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4671597Tue, 16 Mar 2021 15:25:27 -00004671597@Uncensored

This one... is so brutally honest. :) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBjsFAyiwA

Exactly. :) 

 

Mon Mar 15 2021 21:10:46 EDT from zooer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXzubuENjHk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBjsFAyiwA

 

 

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4671530Tue, 16 Mar 2021 01:10:46 -00004671530@Uncensored

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXzubuENjHk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDBjsFAyiwA

 

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4671518Mon, 15 Mar 2021 23:34:41 -00004671518@Uncensored

I've been a Protestant my whole life. 

You just have to HIDE these things, and not very well. 

Trust me. 

Or maybe it is just the Protestants. 

 

Mon Mar 15 2021 18:29:14 EDT from zooer

Woa,woa, slow down.... you might have to give up drinking and promiscuous sex.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4671507Mon, 15 Mar 2021 22:29:14 -00004671507@Uncensored

Woa,woa, slow down.... you might have to give up drinking and promiscuous sex.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4671498Mon, 15 Mar 2021 21:05:29 -00004671498@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4671472Mon, 15 Mar 2021 18:51:22 -00004671472@UncensoredThe leader, or spokesperson for the Jehovah Witnesses has stated that >politics has torn families apart and that the family is important, >therefore politics is evil. > >  > That guy gets 15 darknetuserpoints ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4671461Mon, 15 Mar 2021 16:54:29 -00004671461@Uncensored

While true, politics DO directly effect their lives, and total inaction is not beneficial. Ignoring it wont make it go away. 

 

 Support != worship.. Or at least it does not have to.

Mon Mar 15 2021 10:21:59 EDT from zooer

This topic could be placed in Today I Learned, Politics and Propaganda or Religion. 

TIL, that Jehovah Witnesses do not vote.  Jovos don't vote, as they believe the Lord is the only thing you should worship. I am fine with that idea, people who worship any politician have lost their way.  

The leader, or spokesperson for the Jehovah Witnesses has stated that politics has torn families apart and that the family is important, therefore politics is evil.

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4671447Mon, 15 Mar 2021 14:21:59 -00004671447@Uncensored

This topic could be placed in Today I Learned, Politics and Propaganda or Religion. 

TIL, that Jehovah Witnesses do not vote.  Jovos don't vote, as they believe the Lord is the only thing you should worship. I am fine with that idea, people who worship any politician have lost their way.  

The leader, or spokesperson for the Jehovah Witnesses has stated that politics has torn families apart and that the family is important, therefore politics is evil.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4671387Sun, 14 Mar 2021 21:10:45 -00004671387@Uncensored

Donno if any of you are fellow ordained pastafarians but seems they have a newly updated certificate.  

 

 

4646809@Uncensored

Matthew 10:35.  Luke 12:53.  This is my life now.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4640106Tue, 29 Dec 2020 19:15:27 -00004640106@Uncensored

And I think it is possible to do this, without a particular religion. 

The people I've encountered in my life the *best* at this, are the ones with an unshakable faith in God. Although, having grown up in a very Asian part of Northern California, it seems like a lot of the East Asian disciplines, philosophies and religions also impart this kind of inner peace on a person's soul - seemingly no matter what obstacle life throws at them. 

A lot of times, the people who achieve this kind of zen through more secular methods of Western philosophy seem to have the least fragile balance on it. Too much adversity, and they quickly run into trouble maintaining their peace with the world. 

But - Westerners in general seem fragile in this regard, even those who claim to find peace through faith. We believe what we believe when everything is going fairly smooth - when we run into adversity, we tend to become pessimists about all of our beliefs and values, rapidly. 

It is

 

Tue Dec 29 2020 02:53:09 EST from arabella

I am mostly at peace with the world, some of the people in it, not so much.

I don't "achieve" that peace, I'm just chill with it. 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4639871Tue, 29 Dec 2020 07:53:09 -00004639871@Uncensored

I am mostly at peace with the world, some of the people in it, not so much.

I don't "achieve" that peace, I'm just chill with it. The world is its own thing, and I'm fine with that.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4639758Tue, 29 Dec 2020 05:23:09 -00004639758@Uncensored

So, we keep touching on the whole Ancient Alien Astronaut thing. 

I'm not completely sold on that. Most of the leading ideas have huge holes in them. Sitchin and Daniken both jump to a lot of conclusions and play loose with interpretation where it suits them. 

Then you have archeologists doing things like saying, "This isn't a myth, it is an oral history," about the Bible, then digging somewhere based on what was written in the book, and discovering exactly the city they were told would be there in exactly the place they were told it was. 

Mainstream science tends to shit on these ideas - because it disturbs their conventional wisdom and challenges their authority as the world's preeminent religion in society today (which it is, as currently practiced. Ig is not wrong about that at all.) 

I mentioned my writing on the subject is titled, "The Faithless Disciple." I'm agnostic too. Not atheist, not a skeptic, not a debunker. I want evidence. Personally, I thin

The Bible is a human psychology book. "If you trust in God, and very few people are capable of this, but if you obediently trust in His will, His plan, and your place in it, you will be at peace with whatever challenges come into your life in this physical plane of being." 

This is true. The most at peace, well adjusted, nonplussed people I have ever met with the most faithful Christians I've ever encountered. No matter what disappointment or adversity they encountered in their life, their faith was unbreakable. They might have moments of doubt and human frailty - but on the whole, they always came back to rolling with the punches based on their faith in God. The entire *bible* is this way. "Before you pull the mote out of your neighbor's eye, pull the plank out of your own." Just full of advice that, if you listen, and apply it - will bring you mental peace and stability in a world so full of terrible things and terror that it is hard to keep your head on straight. 

The movie and

It is a very unorthodox view on religion and Christianity. I've done a *lot* of multi-discipline academic research on the topic, though. I'm not just a nutcase going to UFO seminars at hotel convention centers. 

Mon Dec 28 2020 18:11:20 EST from arabella

I am agnostic. I rely on the proven. 

The origin of the Universe is a thing I file under "Workable Theories, Yet to be Proved"

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4639647Mon, 28 Dec 2020 23:11:20 -00004639647@Uncensored

I am agnostic. I rely on the proven. 

The origin of the Universe is a thing I file under "Workable Theories, Yet to be Proved"

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4639634Mon, 28 Dec 2020 22:29:51 -00004639634@UncensoredI mean seriously, in a world of science, how does a deity fit the >observed reality? Well, I can't give you a non-believer's perspective, because I'm not one :) As a big fan of both God and Science, however, I can sum it up in one phrase: "Old Earth Creationism" (the writeup at https://www.oldearth.org/old.htm is a good starting point). There's also the small matter of corruption of the word "science". An unfortunate habit of too many people in the modern era is to conflate the observable, repeatable, scientific method with scientific theories, and consider both of them to be equally valid as truth. You all know the usual suspects; no need to bring them up one by one here. I'd love to hear the thoughts of an agnostic (not an atheist) on this subject. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4639633Mon, 28 Dec 2020 22:22:00 -00004639633@Uncensoreduse for praying through the Saints and the Virgin Mary (and the >reason the secular world says they adopted that mythos, and which old Well, there's that ... you're probably aware that we consider the one who the RCC calls "the virgin mary" is neither virgin nor Mary (if not, your RTFM is at https://chick.com/products/tract?stk=0040 ... practicing Catholics, prepare to be offended). The "real" Mary had several more kids after Jesus, eventually died, and does NOT want to be prayed to. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4638867Mon, 28 Dec 2020 06:03:43 -00004638867@Uncensored

I was kinda hoping that by now someone not a Christian, perhaps a Muslim, a Jew, or a Sikh might have had $0.02 worth.

Anyway,  I notice Mr Delusions referred to the Saints, and which of the Old Gods they replaced. Which reminded me of something I said at the beginning: There are so,few followers of the Old Gods that they may have vanished in puff of apathy. 

Now, if as "Civilised People" we say: "Yes, but the old gods were simply a way of explaining thunder & lightning,  or volcanoes,  or where the Sun goes at night" can I not also say, "Yes but Christianity is just a way of defining a moral code don't kill each other, be nice, don't lie"

I mean seriously, in a world of science, how does a deity fit the observed reality?

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4638726Mon, 28 Dec 2020 00:37:11 -00004638726@Uncensored

By the way... my protestant Church... is now a Universal Church of Christ church. 

https://pioneerucc.org/
That is the Pro LGBT church. When we wanted to get married there, they told us the officiating pastor might be a man or a woman, and might be straight or gay. 

We were ok with the sexual preference - but my wife always envisioned having her wedding performed by a male pastor. They would not budge - oh, and we wouldn't know who would perform the marriage until a week before the ceremony. 

We had our wedding at a Lutheran church out in Elk Grove. One of those modern, A-Frame churches with big exposed beams and lots of light and comfortable pews. Very homey church. Looked kind of like the Brady Bunch home. 

Not what I imagined - but through the years, I've come to the conclusion that God and I are what matters, not what the building of worship tells me God wants or thinks or how he likes his home decorated or his music played. 

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4638724Mon, 28 Dec 2020 00:32:25 -00004638724@Uncensored

Ooooh... as a Protestant, I'd beg to differ with you... especially if you're a snake-handling, tambourine thumping, thrashing-on-the-ground commune-living hippy Evangelical. Guitars and light-shows and folk music don't really belong. You show praise to God with a massive pipe organ and a woman who is the secretary at the local elementary school belting out Hymn 201. 

Mainline protestants may treat you like part of the flock in general, polite conversation - but behind your back - they all privately acknowledge that you're just barely civilized pagans, and while they hope that you are truly saved, they're sure you're going to be street sweepers and janitorial service in the afterlife. ;) 

I'm not saying I believe they're right. But, I guarantee you, after church at the local coffee shop having brunch of lunch, if Evangelical's come up, so does the phrase, "long haired hippy pot smoking cultists." At least in the 70s and early 80s. Most Protestant congregations have since pretty much

Sat Dec 26 2020 22:45:37 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Protestant/Catholic divide. Same God, same basic ideas, but both
sides were convinced the other side had it wrong and were damned - as
far as I could tell, mostly because of a few different words in The
Lord's Prayer about debtors vs. trespassers.

Umm... there's way more to it than that.

I'd also put forth that it's mainly the catholics that consider protestants to be non-Christians. Some of us (I would consider myself more of an evangelical than a mainline protestant) consider the Roman Catholic Church to be less than 100% authentic, but you can find authentic Christians within it.

It's way more than just a few words in a prayer, though. Some of the bigger ones are what we might call the Roman Catholic church's "proprietary extensions" to Christianity:
* Transsubstantiation (Catholics believe that the communion elements physically become the body and blood of Christ, rather than a mere celebration of the Lord's Supper)
* Celibacy (cough) for priests (not found in the Bible)
* Specific rules to observe during Lent
* etc.

Some of the practices to which Martin Luther objected are no longer common (such as the selling of indulgences for example) but the RCC still considers it the only legi

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4638290Sun, 27 Dec 2020 03:45:37 -00004638290@UncensoredProtestant/Catholic divide. Same God, same basic ideas, but both >sides were convinced the other side had it wrong and were damned - as >far as I could tell, mostly because of a few different words in The >Lord's Prayer about debtors vs. trespassers. Umm... there's way more to it than that. I'd also put forth that it's mainly the catholics that consider protestants to be non-Christians. Some of us (I would consider myself more of an evangelical than a mainline protestant) consider the Roman Catholic Church to be less than 100% authentic, but you can find authentic Christians within it. It's way more than just a few words in a prayer, though. Some of the bigger ones are what we might call the Roman Catholic church's "proprietary extensions" to Christianity: * Transsubstantiation (Catholics believe that the communion elements physically become the body and blood of Christ, rather than a mere celebration of the Lord's Supper) * Celibacy (cough) for priests (not found in the Bible) * Specific rules to observe during Lent * etc. Some of the practices to which Martin Luther objected are no longer common (such as the selling of indulgences for example) but the RCC still considers it the only legitimate church, while most mainline protestants consider the RCC to be one of many legitimate denominations. My mom is one of those hyper-catholics who believes that only the RCC is legitimate and that there's no difference between protestants, evangelicals, muslims, hindus, atheists, pastafarians, etc. You're either part of Mother Church or you're not. I think Jesus would beg to disagree. Frankly it's a miracle that I merely defected to "regular" Christianity instead of just running away as fast as I could. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4637663Fri, 25 Dec 2020 18:21:50 -00004637663@Uncensored

This morning while making breakfast I cracked an egg, inside there were two yolks, a sign of Yeshua existence.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4637283Thu, 24 Dec 2020 23:59:19 -00004637283@Uncensored

I've been meaning to get back to this, but lots of balls in the air right now. 

Tonight my wife is cooking some Christmas things - and "O' Come All Ye Faithful," came on. 

Evidently, only Protestants sing the verse, "The One True King of England" as a replacement for "The king of angles," or somesuch. 

As recently as, like, the early 80's. 

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4634504Mon, 21 Dec 2020 20:16:59 -00004634504@Uncensored

If you want a serious, friendly discussion about religion - I can probably seed some discussion here on that topic. It'll be long. 

I am the bastard son of an affair between my father, an English Protestant, with his high-school Irish Catholic best-friend's wife. 

I have 5 siblings, the closest of which is 12 years older than me, 4 of which were girls, and 3 of which are deceased already, who were all raised Irish-Catholic and went to parochial schools. 

My mother was excommunicated twice over me. Once when she left her husband for my father. They convinced her that they would absolve her, but more importantly, if I were baptized as a Catholic and raised as the son of her first husband, I would be spared the unjust eternal damnation of the innocent. She did those things, and then first husband reverted to the ways that caused my disruptive arrival, and added threats that he was going to kill me in my crib - so mom left him again, and we BOTH got excommunicated that time

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4633923Mon, 21 Dec 2020 08:15:13 -00004633923@Uncensored

 

Sun Nov 29 2020 01:38:31 PM EST from zooer

Topic drift doesn't bother me too much but arabella wanted this room to be successful.  

Thanks zooer, I would like the room to succeed, and I appreciate your support. 

Topic drift is ok, as long as it drifts back (it often does) 

Like all that we create, we can only give it form, and purpose. After that it will stand or fall, and there is little we can do to influence the outcome.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4633907Mon, 21 Dec 2020 07:58:54 -00004633907@Uncensored

 

Thu Oct 08 2020 05:32:08 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Most of the time I meet somebody who describes himself as a Humanist, he is a totalitarian using a benevolent disguise.

Some of those folks are just militant atheists in disguise.  My favorite example is the "free thought" movement.  Those people claim to be free thinkers, but in that group you're only allowed to think freely if it leads you to strict atheism.

Full disclosure: I am fully confident that my religion is the only true one and everyone else is wrong.  I just don't feel inclined to be an asshole about it to everyone I meet.  Doing so wouldn't serve any useful purpose.

I describe me as a Humanist. The ethic suits my way of thinking.

I do not have a God or Gods. The closest I get to having a Religion,  is agreeing with Buddha about some things.

I do not "Evangelise" Humanism, nor will I tell a believer he is wrong.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4628584Mon, 14 Dec 2020 01:31:19 -00004628584@Uncensored

Taoism in particular has convinced me that the bulk of spiritual texts are misinterpretations, post-apocalypse, of a previous culture's advance knowledge. 

Taoism is a description of the universe - when you describe quantum theory and string theory to a Taoist, that the perceivable universe is mostly dark-matter or negative energy... 

They'll respond, "The bowl is formless without the void? Yes. We knew." The Yin Yang isn't a spiritual symbol - it is a scientific notation - the positive and negative in balance, a little bit of the positive in the negative, and a little bit of the negative in the positive. 

Our society is a cargo cult... 

Which is not a denial of divinity - or any particular spiritual belief. 

4628549@Uncensoredsurvive, the least objectionable current option would be Eastern >Orthodox. There are some things I like about the Orthodox practice. It could be argued that it was the "original" reformation. Others may argue that it was motivated by Constantine's own agenda.OM ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4618201Tue, 01 Dec 2020 12:59:11 -00004618201@Uncensored

 

Mon Nov 30 2020 16:28:49 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

I seem to recall a discussion on religion with someone named Curly -
and I seem to recall it was a dumpster fire. 

When you first arrived here I asked you if you knew who he was and you said no. Albert P. Mitchell ("Curly Surmudgeon") hailed from the Sacramento BBS scene and was infamous for monopolizing any discussion of religion with his *extremely* militant atheism. He eventually left the scene and is now serving 20 years in prison for pedophilia.

So yes, with the main reason for not having a Religion room now gone, we can have one again.

Ah! Yes. I think I probably asked about him in the Sacramento Citadelphia group. It is all coming back. I think a couple of people did know him. 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4617681Mon, 30 Nov 2020 21:28:49 -00004617681@UncensoredI seem to recall a discussion on religion with someone named Curly - >and I seem to recall it was a dumpster fire.  When you first arrived here I asked you if you knew who he was and you said no. Albert P. Mitchell ("Curly Surmudgeon") hailed from the Sacramento BBS scene and was infamous for monopolizing any discussion of religion with his *extremely* militant atheism. He eventually left the scene and is now serving 20 years in prison for pedophilia. So yes, with the main reason for not having a Religion room now gone, we can have one again. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4617598Mon, 30 Nov 2020 18:24:39 -00004617598@Uncensored

 

Sun Nov 29 2020 21:01:22 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Topic drift doesn't bother me too much but arabella wanted this room
to be successful.  

After one has attempted to discuss religion in a forum where Curly was present, and seen the entire thing go sideways faster than you can possibly push the delete button ... *any* discussion that doesn't turn into a flamewar is a ROARING success.

I seem to recall a discussion on religion with someone named Curly - and I seem to recall it was a dumpster fire. 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4616834Mon, 30 Nov 2020 02:50:42 -00004616834@Uncensored

If I have to pretend to be anything in order to fit in, get by and survive, the least objectionable current option would be Eastern Orthodox.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4616823Mon, 30 Nov 2020 02:01:22 -00004616823@UncensoredTopic drift doesn't bother me too much but arabella wanted this room >to be successful.   After one has attempted to discuss religion in a forum where Curly was present, and seen the entire thing go sideways faster than you can possibly push the delete button ... *any* discussion that doesn't turn into a flamewar is a ROARING success. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4616795Mon, 30 Nov 2020 01:00:32 -00004616795@Uncensored

 

Sun Nov 29 2020 13:38:31 EST from zooer

Topic drift doesn't bother me too much but arabella wanted this room to be successful.  

My original Citadel should have been called, "Off Topic". 

I'm not sure what defines "success" on a modern Citadel. 10 posts a month in a room?

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4616607Sun, 29 Nov 2020 18:38:31 -00004616607@Uncensored

Topic drift doesn't bother me too much but arabella wanted this room to be successful.  

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4616427Sun, 29 Nov 2020 15:14:34 -00004616427@Uncensored

 

Sun Nov 29 2020 09:47:17 EST from zooer

 (/topic drift)

Back in the old days, we had Aides who would pull off topic messages and either put them in the trash if they were useless, or put them in the proper topic room, where the conversation would pick back up, on topic. 

I'm not sure why we don't do that here on Webcit - but it seems easier to just let the room go off topic. 

So anyhow... 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4616415Sun, 29 Nov 2020 14:47:17 -00004616415@Uncensored

 

Sun Nov 29 2020 08:27:18 AM EST from ParanoidDelusions

Actually, my calendar reminded me, despite me not knowing or caring, that the day AFTER Thanksgiving is "National Native Indigenous American Appreciation Day."  

I had the same notification.  Many Native Americans are calling it National Day of Grieving or Native American Grieving day.
I noticed that the first day of February is listed as "The First Day of National Black History Month", and the first day of March is listed as "First Day of Woman's History Month"  That is annoying because in the month view the only thing you see is "First Day".  It is a waste of calendar space.  I get "President's D" and "Valentine", that is simple and gets the point across, but "first day" is meaningless."

(/topic drift)

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4616383Sun, 29 Nov 2020 13:27:18 -00004616383@Uncensored

Actually, my calendar reminded me, despite me not knowing or caring, that the day AFTER Thanksgiving is "National Native Indigenous American Appreciation Day." 

I always heard that a big part of Thanksgiving *was* Native Indigenous American Appreciation. 
I guess the SJWs thought they needed an entire day all to themselves, though - that the rest of the US could ignore. Kind of like showing the racists by removing all black spokespersons from brand labels in the grocery store. 

 

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4616354Sun, 29 Nov 2020 12:06:43 -00004616354@Uncensored

Happy Than- I mean Happy Non-Sportsball Secular Religion of Murca Day

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4616352Sun, 29 Nov 2020 12:02:21 -00004616352@Uncensored

Most people are aware that the winter solstice and the day chosen to mark the birth of Yeshua were celebrated at the end of December.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4616127Sat, 28 Nov 2020 22:51:32 -00004616127@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4604647Mon, 16 Nov 2020 10:56:52 -00004604647@Uncensored

 

Thu Oct 08 2020 17:32:08 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Most of the time I meet somebody who describes himself as a Humanist, he is a totalitarian using a benevolent disguise.

Some of those folks are just militant atheists in disguise.  My favorite example is the "free thought" movement.  Those people claim to be free thinkers, but in that group you're only allowed to think freely if it leads you to strict atheism.

Full disclosure: I am fully confident that my religion is the only true one and everyone else is wrong.  I just don't feel inclined to be an asshole about it to everyone I meet.  Doing so wouldn't serve any useful purpose.

We think so much alike on issues like these, it is scary that we both ended up hermits hiding in smoky back rooms of the Internet in bad neighborhoods, in back alleys, off the information superhighway...

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4604469Mon, 16 Nov 2020 06:39:16 -00004604469@Uncensored

I find "Despair is a sin" to be a useful heuristic without necessarily needing to believe in the literal truth of the statement.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4589528Sun, 11 Oct 2020 01:15:33 -00004589528@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4589463Sat, 10 Oct 2020 17:48:32 -00004589463@Uncensored 2020-10-07 19:20 from LoanShark > > -1th law? I'm familiar with the Zeroth Law (read all the damn books as >a teenager), but that's new to me > > I think -1 law belongs to some Asimovian fanfiction which is regarded as semi-official regardless of the fact it was not very good. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4589209Fri, 09 Oct 2020 22:26:09 -00004589209@Uncensoredbelief that we optimize for the human race (which is kinda the opposite >of what PETA types believe...) Assuming that PETA types will tend to be atheists as well, that would seem to make sense. Christians and Jews know that God said "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creps on the earth" [Genesis 1:26]. And the most devout among us know that if God hadn't intended for animals to be eaten, He wouldn't have made them out of meat. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4589031Fri, 09 Oct 2020 09:31:14 -00004589031@Uncensored

Welcome to the club.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4588941Fri, 09 Oct 2020 00:29:30 -00004588941@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4588939Fri, 09 Oct 2020 00:02:30 -00004588939@Uncensored

I read about a local skeptic club, I realized it was a front for the religion of Atheism. 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4588928Thu, 08 Oct 2020 21:37:28 -00004588928@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4588925Thu, 08 Oct 2020 21:32:08 -00004588925@Uncensored

Most of the time I meet somebody who describes himself as a Humanist, he is a totalitarian using a benevolent disguise.

Some of those folks are just militant atheists in disguise.  My favorite example is the "free thought" movement.  Those people claim to be free thinkers, but in that group you're only allowed to think freely if it leads you to strict atheism.

Full disclosure: I am fully confident that my religion is the only true one and everyone else is wrong.  I just don't feel inclined to be an asshole about it to everyone I meet.  Doing so wouldn't serve any useful purpose.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4588741Wed, 07 Oct 2020 23:20:15 -00004588741@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4588731Wed, 07 Oct 2020 22:13:03 -00004588731@Uncensored 2020-10-04 02:25 from arabella >"Sensible people can witness non-forcibly, can "be the light" without >being obnoxious about it simply by demonstrating how much their faith >is working for them and sharing it only when asked" > >This is pretty much how Humanists are, it's a thing I discovered by >accident, and quite like. > I don't know about that. Most of the time I meet somebody who describes himself as a Humanist, he is a totalitarian using a benevolent disguise. Among these, a significant chunk is like Asimov's Robots following a particularly strong Law Zero and Law -1 of robotics. They will sacrifice the rights of individuals and groups in order to achieve their goals for the Collective and will tell you so straight. It reminds me of Skeptics for some reason. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4587952Sun, 04 Oct 2020 06:25:47 -00004587952@Uncensored

"Sensible people can witness non-forcibly, can "be the light" without being obnoxious about it simply by demonstrating how much their faith is working for them and sharing it only when asked"

This is pretty much how Humanists are, it's a thing I discovered by accident, and quite like.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4587652Fri, 02 Oct 2020 17:43:13 -00004587652@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4587604Fri, 02 Oct 2020 14:12:31 -00004587604@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4587446Thu, 01 Oct 2020 23:16:12 -00004587446@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4587367Thu, 01 Oct 2020 17:25:52 -00004587367@Uncensored

Atheism is a religion. 

Atheists meet regularly in groups to discuss Atheism.
Atheists try to impose their views on everyone else sometimes through laws.
Atheists tell you that you are foolish for believing what you believe and you need to believe what they believe to save yourself.
There are books on atheists and atheists encourage people to read those books.

All this for something they don't believe in.  If it wasn't a religion they would just go about life.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4587350Thu, 01 Oct 2020 16:11:52 -00004587350@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4587231Thu, 01 Oct 2020 01:59:16 -00004587231@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4587208Thu, 01 Oct 2020 00:40:35 -00004587208@Uncensored

Trey Parker one of the creators of South Park said,

> "All the religions are superfunny to me," Parker adds. "The story of Jesus makes no sense to me. God sent his only son. Why could God only have one son and why would he have to die? It's just bad writing, really. And it's really terrible in  about the second act."
> But Parker says atheism is more ludicrous to him than anything else.
> "Out of all the ridiculous religion stories -- which are greatly, wonderfully ridiculous -- the silliest one I've ever heard is, 'Yeah, there's this big, giant universe and it's expanding and it's all going to collapse on itself and we're all just here, just 'cuz. Just 'cuz. That to me, is the most ridiculous explanation ever," he says.

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4586611Sun, 27 Sep 2020 21:18:55 -00004586611@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4586557Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:03:58 -00004586557@Uncensored

 

Mon Sep 14 2020 05:04:29 PM EDT from zooer

I believe that there is something larger than us, but not a god.  We are just too small to see it.

 

OR... Our universe might be in a petri dish.

 

I thought Bell Jar, because otherwise we'd escape into the wild, (perhaps we did)

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4586556Sun, 27 Sep 2020 09:01:30 -00004586556@Uncensored

 

Tue Sep 08 2020 06:59:00 PM EDT from Ragnar Danneskjold

2020-09-07 14:40 from arabella
I remain convinced that God was made in man's image

I don't believe that....

People are inherently selfish creatures. We'd have made a God that encouraged our selfishness.

I don't believe that...

 

People do want the best for themselves, and a hefty number try to attain that selfishly, but there are also a great many people who would like to live in a world which is better for everyone, and many of those people do not follow a God, or gods.

 

I prefer to think that people are inherently good, but easily led, and that anyone can be good without having to reference Religion

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4584409Mon, 14 Sep 2020 21:04:29 -00004584409@Uncensored

I believe that there is something larger than us, but not a god.  We are just too small to see it.

 

OR... Our universe might be in a petri dish.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4583234Tue, 08 Sep 2020 22:59:00 -00004583234@Uncensored 2020-09-07 14:40 from arabella >I remain convinced that God was made in man's image > I don't believe that.... People are inherently selfish creatures. We'd have made a God that encouraged our selfishness. ]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4582997Mon, 07 Sep 2020 18:40:56 -00004582997@Uncensored

I remain convinced that God was made in man's image

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4580626Tue, 25 Aug 2020 18:51:51 -00004580626@Uncensoredhttp://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4579880Fri, 21 Aug 2020 20:17:09 -00004579880@Uncensored

I believe there are signs of intelligent design everywhere that we consciously ignore and chalk up to coincidence or other factors. 

I don't know why that statement in and of itself, tied into no specific theology - is so triggering to so many people. If you have that much FAITH and devotion to your LACK of faith - it starts to look incredibly similar to theist faith, from my perspective - in practice. 

Beyond that though - I think the questions at the top - people want simple binary "true/false" answers to those questions. 

But we've got 2000 years of recorded history, tens of thousands or more of LOST history before that, and mankind INTERPRETING scriptures and documents through a veil of ignorance and bias that entire time. 

So... it is no wonder it is a confusing mess. 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4579198Wed, 19 Aug 2020 00:26:18 -00004579198@Uncensored

If there is a god I don't think he gives a damn about this corner of the universe.

 

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4578774Sun, 16 Aug 2020 21:06:53 -00004578774@Uncensored

Oh, life is bigger
It's bigger
Than you and you are not me
The lengths that I will go to
The distance in your eyes
Oh no, I've said too much
I set it up

]]>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Religion?start_reading_at=4578758Sun, 16 Aug 2020 19:30:30 -00004578758@Uncensored

Religion:

 

If even one is wrong, does that make them all wrong?

 

I don't pretend to have an answer to this question , which made me wonder, does anyone?

 

All the "Old Gods" have so few believers, the number is pretty much 0, does this mean they vanished in a puff of apathy?

 

The "One God" has many followers, locked in a seemingly endless battle of dogma, trying to prove they follow him best, what the heck is that about?

 

I have more questions, but I think this is enough for one day.

 

I am eager for your views, let the games commence...

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