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[#] Thu Oct 17 2013 14:43:36 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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I never read through the pet store example, and am proud of it.

[#] Thu Oct 17 2013 15:19:03 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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well, it was one of their marketing $foo.



[#] Fri Oct 18 2013 01:34:58 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Thu Oct 17 2013 02:43:36 PM EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

I never read through the pet store example, and am proud of it.

I think I will bone up on jscript now and then barf.  I did not make it through the canned example, but feel I am a failure for having looked.



[#] Fri Oct 18 2013 05:32:10 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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hell yea, lets port the petshop example to node.js.



[#] Fri Oct 18 2013 08:36:25 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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I've been doing more web-related programming lately.

Unfortunately, yet again, in a Windows environment, so I'm having to deal with IIS, which means dealing with either Visual Basic or C# (or, as in this case, both... one guy wrote stuff in C#, while someone else wrote in VB).

My style of doing web development lends itself to only creating dynamic pages for dynamic data, which means just generating XML from queries to a database and letting a real web page with JavaScript handle with with a jQuery ajax call.

I recreated my former co-worker's web page within a day, but with additional features. He had originally taken a couple of weeks, trying to do it all in C#.

Either I'm a better programmer (which might be true... he's fairly junior), or C# really, really sucks (which might also be true, since Microsoft created it).

[#] Fri Oct 18 2013 09:49:16 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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C# is OK... maybe he was spending too much time on "design" and "framework" and not enough on actual code ;)

knowing when you need the layers can be tricky...

[#] Fri Oct 18 2013 10:03:48 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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well, webforms was invented with the intention to have an easy way to let people that do forms-applications write web applications.

I think it was in the pre-ajax time?

Sure with JQuery everything is different.

Plus, knowing which fucking attribute to turn to get some string into the output html which you exactly know 'caus you're an html/css/... expert.... is...

tricky.

 



[#] Fri Oct 18 2013 10:21:01 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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right. web programming is its own sub-specialty, these days, and an increasingly complex one. "knowing C#" or "knowing groovy" or "knowing Python" is not enough anymore.

[#] Sat Oct 19 2013 09:47:10 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Hey hey, none of this software development CitaDrift now, we were talking about how badly PowerShell sucks as both a command interpreter and as a scripting language.

The point here is that with so many existing solutions available (some of them their own!!) there was no need to create yet another new monstrosity.
But that's exactly what they did.

And it's so bloated that it can take ten seconds or more to even load when you click on the button. It's probably initializing zillions of additional bloated subsystems and object frameworks every time you fire it up.

[#] Sat Oct 19 2013 16:27:47 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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Sat Oct 19 2013 09:47:10 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
Hey hey, none of this software development CitaDrift now, we were talking about how badly PowerShell sucks as both a command interpreter and as a scripting language.

The point here is that with so many existing solutions available (some of them their own!!) there was no need to create yet another new monstrosity.
But that's exactly what they did.

And it's so bloated that it can take ten seconds or more to even load when you click on the button. It's probably initializing zillions of additional bloated subsystems and object frameworks every time you fire it up.

hm, when did you last find a 'hello world' in java launch quick? why should starting an interpreter be fast? you're intended to run them for ages anyways.



[#] Sat Oct 19 2013 18:01:23 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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I love how easy it is to call another powershell script in your own powershell script (oh, wait... I must be thinking of some other shell, as it is not easy in powershell from what I have found so far).



[#] Sat Oct 19 2013 20:02:40 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Honestly, I don't use PowerShell. I still use the old batch file thing that Windows has had since day one. It sucks balls, and creates a really arcane looking script, but I have some familiarity with it.

Plus, I know it's on every Windows machine. It is to Windows what bash is to unix-like systems. Except, like most things Microsoft, it is nowhere near as good.

[#] Sun Oct 20 2013 23:47:03 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Sat Oct 19 2013 08:02:40 PM EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

Honestly, I don't use PowerShell. I still use the old batch file thing that Windows has had since day one. It sucks balls, and creates a really arcane looking script, but I have some familiarity with it.

Plus, I know it's on every Windows machine. It is to Windows what bash is to unix-like systems. Except, like most things Microsoft, it is nowhere near as good.

I agree.  No argument here.  Just saying that they are trying to force it on you to administer the newer versions of Exchange or any of the online offerings they do as of late is a too little, too late (and badly done) sort of play catch up - disaster.



[#] Sun Oct 20 2013 23:48:28 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Interesting.  Watching someone use Webcit on a Surface RT.  Of course this applies to any website with any sort of interactivity and the Surface RT.  I think I can suggest IMAP or some other sort of way to go about email.  I personally like not having to wipe my finger across the screen to accomplish some computer interaction (like I was flinging a booger), but that is just me.

Not that anyone here knows (someone) inflicted with a Surface RT... but if they do, could they suggest a good mail program for that P.O.S. for me?



[#] Mon Oct 21 2013 03:16:48 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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Sun Oct 20 2013 23:47:03 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored
Sat Oct 19 2013 08:02:40 PM EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

Honestly, I don't use PowerShell. I still use the old batch file thing that Windows has had since day one. It sucks balls, and creates a really arcane looking script, but I have some familiarity with it.

Plus, I know it's on every Windows machine. It is to Windows what bash is to unix-like systems. Except, like most things Microsoft, it is nowhere near as good.

I agree.  No argument here.  Just saying that they are trying to force it on you to administer the newer versions of Exchange or any of the online offerings they do as of late is a too little, too late (and badly done) sort of play catch up - disaster.

hm, the more they force it down the throat of admins, the more they are likely to search for alternatives.

Once you leave the compfort zone of user administration, you are welcomed to the commandline as well (at least it was like that in sbs 2k3)



[#] Mon Oct 21 2013 18:26:26 EDT from Ladyhawke @ Uncensored

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Sun Oct 20 2013 11:48:28 PM EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

I personally like not having to wipe my finger across the screen to accomplish some computer interaction (like I was flinging a booger), but that is just me.

How many boogers could a finger fling if a finger could fling boogers?



[#] Mon Oct 21 2013 22:51:57 EDT from Sig @ Uncensored

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Once you're already used to the idea of doing useful things from a command line, it makes a hell of a lot of sense to start using tools that were built on that paradigm from the ground up.

[#] Mon Oct 21 2013 23:50:30 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Mon Oct 21 2013 10:51:57 PM EDT from Sig @ Uncensored
Once you're already used to the idea of doing useful things from a command line, it makes a hell of a lot of sense to start using tools that were built on that paradigm from the ground up.

Exactly.  They could have had something there, but instead, they pulled the NIH - not invented here move.



[#] Sat Oct 26 2013 19:09:05 EDT from Sig @ Uncensored

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Hilariously, the version of Internet Explorer that comes with Windows XP SP2 is too old to interface with Windows Update. If you don't turn on the automatic updates, you're just out of luck. Unless you can make it manually download SP3 or already have it lying around, of course.

The problem with auto-updates is that it doesn't do things intelligently, like push SP3 and THEN see what critical updates are necessary.

[#] Sat Oct 26 2013 19:27:13 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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I tried to get something done with PowerShell today.  I can't believe some of the stupid things it does.

For example, a command like

foo

which might produce no output, will behave differently if you do

foo | bar

The data sent to "bar" is completely different from the complete-lack-of-output of "foo" run by itself.

PowerShell breaks fundamental rules of shells.  Typical Microsoft thinking.



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