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[#] Tue Sep 24 2013 22:44:39 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Ok, so we looked at three more houses tonight.

House #1 -- a "dream home" in almost every respect. Four bedrooms, open floor plan, big yard, quiet neighborhood. We can afford the payments but taxes are quite high.

House #2 -- a fixer-upper. Needs a new roof, holes in the walls need fixing, medium taxes, weird land layout makes much of the yard unusable.

House #3 -- a cute brick house with low (comparatively low) taxes. Price is a bit higher. Only three bedrooms but it has a vast almost-finished basement.
Downside: a busy road is visible and audible from the front yard, even though it's not *on* the busy road.


All possibilities. Our realtor got to emulate the HGTV "House Hunters" scene -- "I've shown you three good houses, now you've got some thinking to do"

[#] Wed Sep 25 2013 01:03:11 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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IG, if I have any advice in this area, I would suggest finding a Realtor that would be o.k. looking at what your need versus their needs to get something sold in the short term.  What I mean by that is:

if you are fine living for a year or so with your "shared situation", you should have a Realtor that would spend time searching listings for you (not just showing you what is out there "right now") and send you possibilities that meet most of your needs.

I burned out quite a few Realtors that could not do that for me, but when I found one, it was well worth it.



[#] Wed Sep 25 2013 06:48:12 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

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All possibilities. Our realtor got to emulate the HGTV "House
Hunters" scene -- "I've shown you three good houses, now you've got
some thinking to do"


If only it was that easy. With House Hunters the people have already picked out the home they want, they are in
contract with it and they view friend's, family, or current neighbor's homes for the other two they don't want.

[#] Wed Sep 25 2013 07:44:18 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Of course. In any reality show, whether it's House Hunters, Iron Chef, pro wrestling, or a session of Congress, the outcome has already been pre-determined.

[#] Thu Sep 26 2013 00:43:07 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Wed Sep 25 2013 07:44:18 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
Of course. In any reality show, whether it's House Hunters, Iron Chef, pro wrestling, or a session of Congress, the outcome has already been pre-determined.

True dat.



[#] Thu Sep 26 2013 12:45:51 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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ARRGH. W T F .

Five minutes with a shop vac would have prevented a whole lot of trouble I'm going through right now.

Evidently there was a vermiculite mine in Minnesota that had a strain of asbestos running through it, so a couple of months ago, the People's Republic of New York issued a regulation stating that all vermiculite insulation is officially considered "Asbestos Bearing Material."

Never mind the fact that there is not one documented case of anyone ever getting sick from exposure to expanded vermiculite insulation. The only cases were from people who lived near the mine, and were exposed to dust from mining of the unexpanded raw material. But that hasn't stopped the asbestos remediation industry from being opportunistic and jumping right on this money grab.

So because I didn't know about this new scam, there is now "removal of asbestos bearing material" (at my expense) written into the contract. Because I know this is all bullshit I have no qualms about doing it myself, but now that it's been discovered by an inspector they're insisting on a removal certified by a licensed contractor.
This could potentially cost thousands of dollars.

These lawyers and lobbyists need to die. Shakespeare was right.

[#] Thu Sep 26 2013 13:22:42 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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This could potentially cost thousands of dollars.

These lawyers and lobbyists need to die. Shakespeare was right.



This is what I would do - keep in mind that I am **well** versed in civil litigation practice and procedures and am an extensive self-studied student of the Law.

1. send a certified letter to the buyer informing him that you are not going to do the inspection due to its "unreasonably burdensome cost" and that the clause in your Agreement to Sell constitutes "Tortious Interference with Prospective Economic Gain."

2. in the same letter inform the seller that any attempt to litigate will be met with

a) a motion to quash/strike/dismiss (in California we call this a Demurrer motion)
b) a counter suit for Tortious Interference with Prospective Economic Gain (in California, counter-suits are called Cross Complaints)

My advantage here is that I would not have to hire an attorney and would happily spend the next 2 to 5 years running the buyer and/or buyer's attorney through the "Law & Motion" paper-chase. Subpoenas, depositions, lots of "subpoena ducas tecum" filings (force them to bring an expert to a hearing to explain the document(s) under subpoena, and on and on.

I guided a friend of mine through a lengthy and seemingly hopeless litigation (he was the plaintiff) and helped him drag it out for almost three years. Eventually the other side (a multi-million dollar Big Box Store corporation) gave up and asked us "what will it take to make this just go away?" My buddy is now retired. [Of course, I never gave my friend 'legal advice' - that's not allowed - I just researched points of law for him and then very discretely told him "what I would do if it were me" - *that* is legal! ]

If you have the time, the inclination, reasonably professional writing skills and that certain personality quirk I like to call "the East Coast in me" that just makes you think of "stirring the shit-storm up" as incredibly fun, then DO IT. FUCK with them. They'll give up - they are looking for a place to live. They will make you an offer. One of the following:

1. We (the buyer) will pay for the work
2. We will split the cost with you
3. We will agree to cancel the deal.

#1 is the ideal solution.
#3 is the second-most ideal solution
#2 is something that **I** would not do just because I am a notorious cheapskate - however if you are "good" with it, it is a fair solution.


[#] Thu Sep 26 2013 18:54:01 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

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I was on Lowes today, they have really expanded their LED bulb selection. Took forever for me to find the
incandescent bulb I needed for the stove fan/light.

[#] Thu Sep 26 2013 22:16:12 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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As proud as I am of the fact that I never lose a pissing contest, no contract has yet been signed. Either party can walk away from the deal right now without penalty.

Let's see how expensive a problem this really is. If it's a $1,000 problem I don't care; I want this house off my hands. If it's a $10,000 problem I'll gladly walk away. In any case, the new rider also pushes the closing back by a month, giving us some breathing room to find a new place.

[#] Thu Sep 26 2013 22:38:01 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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Sep 26 2013 7:16pm from IGnatius T Foobar @uncnsrd (Uncensored)
As proud as I am of the fact that I never lose a pissing contest, no
contract has yet been signed. Either party can walk away from the deal

right now without penalty.


Ahhhh.... I was under the obviously mistaken impression that you were already under contract on the sale of your house. Me relieved. This makes it so much cleaner.

[#] Thu Sep 26 2013 22:46:16 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

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If it costs $10,000 how much would it cost to put on that add-on you always wanted to put on?

[#] Thu Sep 26 2013 23:49:32 EDT from ax25 @ Uncensored

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Thu Sep 26 2013 10:38:01 PM EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS
Sep 26 2013 7:16pm from IGnatius T Foobar @uncnsrd (Uncensored)
As proud as I am of the fact that I never lose a pissing contest, no
contract has yet been signed. Either party can walk away from the deal

right now without penalty.


Ahhhh.... I was under the obviously mistaken impression that you were already under contract on the sale of your house. Me relieved. This makes it so much cleaner.

Glad you found out before signing as well.  Sorry if the dirty vermiculite came from Minnesota (I have to be Minnesota nice if possible).  Thanks for the research on the topic, as it seems most published articles from papers have gone AWOL on the subject.



[#] Fri Sep 27 2013 12:40:00 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Actually, "already under contract" would have been preferable, because it would mean that the buyers had already had their inspection done and agreed to purchase the house "as is, where is"

There are some minor little things that the inspection uncovered that I am repairing because I would have repaired them anyway had they come to my attention -- a non-functioning GFI, a tiny leak in a water pipe. For the vermiculite issue I'm having a contractor come out to look at it, but in the meantime I'm offering the buyers a $1,000 credit as an incentive to take the issue off the table.

[#] Fri Sep 27 2013 14:31:17 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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Sep 27 2013 9:40am from IGnatius T Foobar @uncnsrd (Uncensored)
Actually, "already under contract" would have been preferable, because

it would mean that the buyers had already had their inspection done and

agreed to purchase the house "as is, where is"


"As is, where is" does *not* get you out of a remediation that is required by law. And you sure gave me the impression that this vermiculite issue is something in the law or building code (the same thing) that would be needed in order for the new owner to get a CO.


And it just might be something the buyer is not allowed to waive.

[#] Sat Sep 28 2013 21:43:43 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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"As is, where is" does *not* get you out of a remediation that is
required by law. And you sure gave me the impression that this
vermiculite issue is something in the law or building code (the same
thing) that would be needed in order for the new owner to get a CO.


Right. *Don't* "fuck with" the buyers. Deal with, but don't fuck with.

[#] Sun Sep 29 2013 00:14:09 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Ah, but that's the fine point: remediation of this issue *is* *not* required by law. The law now says that vermiculite is considered equivalent to asbestos, but there's no law that says you can't sell a house with asbestos in it.

The buyers were ready to move in until their lyingscumbaglawyer (if I may borrow a term from a famous child molester) decided to make an issue of it.

To make matters worse, I am now "tainted" with the knowledge that this fairy tale of a problem actually exists.

[#] Tue Oct 01 2013 08:39:34 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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I am very frustrated.

We put in an offer on a wonderful house - 5 bedrooms, vaulted ceilings, interior stone wall in the living/dining room with a wood burning stove, beautiful property ... and they came back with a totally reasonable counter offer that we're ready to pounce on.

Minutes later, I received an email saying that the buyers of our current house are walking away from the deal. No explanation why.

[#] Tue Oct 01 2013 09:27:01 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Global warming.

[#] Tue Oct 01 2013 10:17:06 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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I am just so frustrated right now. We were all set to make this thing happen; the sellers of the house we want are eager to get out and we could have done both closings on the same day. Now we're stuck.

[#] Tue Oct 01 2013 10:47:44 EDT from vince-q @ Cascade Lodge BBS

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Oct 1 2013 7:17am from IGnatius T Foobar @uncnsrd (Uncensored)
I am just so frustrated right now. We were all set to make this thing

happen; the sellers of the house we want are eager to get out and we
could have done both closings on the same day. Now we're stuck.



A blessing in disguise.

Find yourself a Property Management firm (or do this yourself) and put tenants in the Mouse House.
You will then have investment income to offset the existing Mouse House mortgage.

Then go and buy your new house.

Tip on the Rental Term in the lease you'll give your renter in the Mouse House.

Let's assume you want $1,000/mo. for rent just to keep the numbers easy.

Make the lease for $1,100/mo. AND in the lease specify that the renter can take a $100 DISCOUNT if the following happen

1. the rent is paid on or before the 1st day of the month, and
2. the tenant has NOT called you for any maintenance issue during the immediately preceeding month, and
3. there have been no problems involving police or other "official contact" caused by any action of tenant.

People will "bust ass" to qualify for a "discount" while those same people will pay the rent late, and pay a late fee, figuring it to be the "cost of being late."

These are the lease terms I would teach to my Money & Investment students back in the 1980s when I taught that class in the local college back in NJ at night. Once a week for the Spring semester each year. Fun!!! It was basically a Night School thing - no college credits involved. Still Fun!!!

--Vince (K2NE person)

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