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[#] Fri Dec 20 2019 13:17:46 EST from nonservator

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"Without an Arm Desktop PC, Arm Servers are just a novelty that individuals will continue to test, evaluate, and ultimately discard as not worth the switching costs, as has occured for the past 5 years."


implying you can go out and buy an ARM server


"In the past, it was difficult to actually find Arm Server hardware available to individual end-users."


But now we live in the glorious future of flying cars where any old Joe can purchase one of these novelties.


Thank God most of these people don't get paid to write this crap.

[#] Fri Dec 20 2019 14:52:59 EST from LoanShark

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ARM server hardware is very, very real, and currently deployed on a massive scale, even if the support ecosystem is a bit bespoke.

In this day and age, your compile farm is in the cloud, your deployment fleet is in the cloud, etc. You don't need an ARM laptop to target an ARM server.

[#] Fri Dec 20 2019 15:11:22 EST from nonservator

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ARC servers are only "real" if you have a big enough corporate expense account.

[#] Sat Dec 21 2019 19:57:51 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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So let's talk about this some more. I ahaven't built a computer in years and you can only learn so much from watching Linus Tech Tips. I think I want to go with AMD, mainly because I just love an underdog. What's the difference between the Ryzen 5 and 7, and what's the difference between the 2nd and 3rd gen? The 3rd gen are twice the price (I'm looking at CPU/Motherboard bundles).
I am not a gamer, so I don't need to push polygons at 120 FPS. I need good snappy desktop performance for simple productivity type work, and media performance good enough for video and audio editing.

Ryzen is a combo CPU/GPU, right? Or am I thinking of something else?

[#] Mon Dec 23 2019 00:37:14 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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In this day and age, your compile farm is in the cloud, your
deployment fleet is in the cloud, etc. You don't need an ARM laptop to

target an ARM server.

*Your* compile farm and deployment fleet are in the cloud. This probably means you have the luxury of having built and/or chosen only cloud-native applications. It's a nice place to be if you can make that happen, because it gives you the flexibility to deploy a lot of different ways. ARM as a server does sound neato. I

Elsewhere in the industry, there are gigantic catalogs of software that are keeping people stuck on legacy technologies such as x86 and even Windows.
Hybrid cloud is popular with enterprise shops for this reason.

[#] Thu Dec 26 2019 16:15:58 EST from LoanShark

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Looks like there's no integrated graphics on Ryzen 7. You need to buy one of their APU models if that's what you want.

My personal choice would be the Ryzen 7 3700x because that's the latest lithography and comes with 8 cores in a 65W power envelope. I'm not a fan of the 95W products because I don't like my space sounding like somebody parked an unmuffled jet engine in there.

Ryzen 5 = 6 codes, Ryzen 7 = 8 cores

[#] Thu Dec 26 2019 16:17:45 EST from LoanShark

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65W vs 95W, you're talking 8% more base clock for 46% more power consumption.

[#] Thu Dec 26 2019 16:19:01 EST from LoanShark

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my mistake, the 3800x is at 105W, so it's 61% more power consumption for 8% more clock speed.

[#] Thu Dec 26 2019 17:39:06 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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Ah, ok so I do see that now, the ones with built-in graphics are called "APU"

I'm shopping the CPU/motherboard bundles at Micro Center and it looks like the graphics power I want (hardware accelerated but not "gamer grade") is included on even the low end motherboards now.

Good point about the power consumption and fan requirements. Running reasonably quiet (not necessarily "silent") is desirable because the rig will operate 24/7 in a home office that doubles as a guest bedroom. If the fan ramps up when I render a video, that's fine, but if it ramps up in the middle of the night for no good reason, that's not quite as fine.

[#] Thu Dec 26 2019 20:40:52 EST from LoanShark

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I'm using 65W Intel products with the retail box cooler and it's reasonably quiet. I do have one of those cases with a bit of soundproof padding.

With an over-engineered aftermarket cooler it would be even quieter.

Used to use those 95W Pentium IV's at the office, back in the day, and those sounded like a jet engine. Same with the one I bought for my mom.

[#] Mon Dec 30 2019 15:28:41 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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Here's a first draft of my build, coming in at about $350.  My budget is $450 so there's room to improve anything that turns out to be underpowered.

As previously mentioned, I don't need or want a video card, because I don't play PC games, so I only need enough display oomph to render the desktop and play some video.  And I already have my disks, a pair of Intel 800 GB SSD as the primary disks plus another HDD for backup.


AMD Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6 Core AM4 Boxed Processor with Wraith Spire Cooler CPU AMD Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6 Core AM4 Boxed Processor with Wraith Spire Cooler 1 $79.99 EACH
ASRock B450 PRO4 AM4 ATX AMD Motherboard Motherboard ASRock B450 PRO4 AM4 ATX AMD Motherboard 1 $89.99 EACH
Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 16GB 2 x 8GB DDR4-2666 PC4-21300 CL16 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit 2K8G4D26BFSBK - Gray RAM Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 16GB 2 x 8GB DDR4-2666 PC4-21300 CL16 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit 2K8G4D26BFSBK - Gray 1 $65.99 EACH
Corsair 110R Tempered Glass ATX Mid-Tower Computer Case - Black Case Corsair 110R Tempered Glass ATX Mid-Tower Computer Case - Black 1 $62.99 EACH
PowerSpec 550 Watt 80 Plus Bronze ATX Fixed Power Supply Power Supply PowerSpec 550 Watt 80 Plus Bronze ATX Fixed Power Supply 1 $47.99 EACH
    Total $346.95

[#] Fri Jan 03 2020 20:23:32 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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Ok, ignore that :)

After careful reading I learned that the 450 chipset's "integrated graphics" consist of "use an AMD CPU with integrated graphics and we will route that signal to the video ports". So I'm going for the Ryzen 5 3400G (4 cores, 8 threads, 65 watts) and going with a cheaper (but larger) case. I don't need a transparent case; this thing is going to sit on the floor like a real computer.

[#] Sun Jan 05 2020 09:20:18 EST from LoanShark

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Yeah, I knew about the G suffixed parts but had some trouble finding them on AMDs website at first. It gets a little confusing about whether you're talking about these or the "APU" products -- I'm not sure what the distinction is.

[#] Sun Jan 05 2020 17:07:00 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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The "G" in the model number and the "APU" designation are more r less the same thing. Their claim is that the built-in GPU is a few steps above what typical "integrated" graphics can provide, but not quite up to par with a separate graphics card.

I went through the System Builder application on the MicroCenter web site and put my parts list together. I almost fell into the trap of not having any graphics because the Socket AM4 motherboards are compatible with Ryzen CPUs, and they *say* they have integrated graphics, but as previously noted, that only means it has a passthrough for the Ryzen APUs. Technically it *is* compatible, but they expect that if you buy a plain CPU, you're also going to buy a SuperMegaDoomDestroyer video card.

I haven't built a computer in a *long* time. This will be interesting.

[#] Mon Jan 06 2020 17:08:48 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: My haul from Micro Center :)

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AMD Ryzen 3400G APU, Micron RAM, a PowerSpec 550W power supply, ASRock B450M Pro4 motherboard (all of the motherboards are basically the same because they all use  the same AMD chipset anyway), and a Thermaltake mid-tower case.   Here's a photo of my haul:

As always, I shopped at Micro Center because Amazon is The Great Satan and I would prefer to patronize a (somewhat) local store.

I'm getting ready for a short trip out of town right now, so the build will begin next week.

[#] Mon Jan 06 2020 17:39:44 EST from LoanShark

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Nice. The 3400G looks like the one to have if you're looking for integrated graphics.

[#] Tue Jan 07 2020 14:26:05 EST from Ragnar Danneskjold

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AMD - I see you're still a glutton for punishment.

[#] Tue Jan 07 2020 15:54:42 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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How so? I've been very pleased with AMD processors I've bought in the past.
Never had any problems. Ryzen processors happen to be really well regarded by the entire industry now, too ... they've vastly surpassed Intel in price/performance and in some cases on raw performance. If I wanted to punish myself I'd buy a Mac :)

[#] Thu Jan 09 2020 17:07:09 EST from LoanShark

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The days of AMD being a bit player are changing fast. EPYC products are now deployed on a massive scale in data centers and taken very seriously.

[#] Tue Jan 14 2020 23:22:15 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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The new build passed the smoke test. Tomorrow I will move all of my disks into it and bring it into production use.

I'm glad I bought a new case and power supply instead of reusing an old one.
Things have really evolved over the last ten years. It's technically still the same ATX form factor, and a new motherboard will fit into an old case, but the power connectors are different, there's now space for 2.5" storage devices, and they've added all sorts of slots and tiedowns for people who want to dress the cables to make it look nice. And of course there's that matte black finish on everything, which I like much better than the old beige boxes.

There's not going to be any RGB lighting on this one, though. That's a bit too ghetto for me. But the motherboard has two headers on it, to connect both addressable and non-addressable LED strip. I'm thinking about drilling some holes in an empty drive bay cover and adding some panel-mounted LEDs to connect to that header, to have some more *traditional* blinkenlichten.

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