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[#] Thu Nov 11 2021 14:17:49 EST from Nurb432

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Which is too bad. 

Society has lost something over the generations.

Thu Nov 11 2021 01:32:51 PM EST from IGnatius T Foobar
Most people don't care about drive trains and performance and other car stuff.
They just want a box with wheels to drive to the local Starbucks.

 



[#] Thu Nov 11 2021 14:19:17 EST from Nurb432

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I guess im glad then that it never came to be installed in my little car and we kept manual steering. In 1990 the model change was to have that.. it sounded neat, but perhaps not so much in practice.

Thu Nov 11 2021 01:50:06 PM EST from LoanShark
This electric steering on the recent BMWs feels the same way. Super precise but strangely effortless, and utterly lacking in road feel.

 



[#] Thu Nov 11 2021 18:25:11 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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This electric steering on the recent BMWs feels the same way. Super
precise but strangely effortless, and utterly lacking in road feel.

I find that to be the case in any drive-by-wire vehicle, regardless of how it is powered. It's reminiscent of 1980s cars that had ridiculously eager power steering, before they reduced it to "power assist". You can't feel the road through a video game controller. Maybe they should take a cue *from* the video game industry and start introducing some haptic feedback.

Drive-by-wire also encourages some design fails, such as the vehicle I rented once where the automatic transmission shifter was a KNOB on the dashboard, identical in size and shape to the volume knob on the radio.

At the end of the day, however, I think we're on our way to perfecting the mechanical side of the electric car experience. The motors have a lot of power and torque, and I believe the haptic problems are solvable with a little effort.
I just don't think the energy storage problem will be solved in a mass-scalable fashion for a while yet, which is why I don't want this stuff *forced* onto us.

[#] Thu Nov 11 2021 22:07:52 EST from LoanShark

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Drive-by-wire also encourages some design fails, such as the vehicle I

rented once where the automatic transmission shifter was a KNOB on the

dashboard, identical in size and shape to the volume knob on the radio.


That's horrible.

I've only ridden in a Prius one time, maybe 15+ years ago, but it had some similar bullshit. I think there's a knob next to the infosystem that puts you into a downhill-oriented, regenerative braking mode. That sort of shit should be either integrated in the shifter or on the steering wheel.

[#] Sun Nov 14 2021 22:20:24 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Agreed. Both my M4 and M235 have much less communicative steering than my Z3, my E36 or my E30 had. 

And it absolutely has an impact on the overall driving experience. The M235i is actually better than the M4 - and by 2020, my model, people were saying they had gotten the steering feel on the M4 much improved - so I have no idea what the earlier models felt like. 

And it *is* very Audi-like. 


Thu Nov 11 2021 13:50:06 EST from LoanShark
2021-11-08 21:14 from ParanoidDelusions
I just think electric is *cheating*. It doesn't feel *natural*. I'm
not a big fan of Audi - they make fast cars that handle like they're
on rails... but you're really just sitting in the driver's seat
*suggesting* what you would like to do... it is doing all the actual
driving. 

This electric steering on the recent BMWs feels the same way. Super precise but strangely effortless, and utterly lacking in road feel.

 



[#] Sun Nov 14 2021 22:21:00 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Oh for sure. But they're more to me than that - and I won't give mine up easily. 

 

Thu Nov 11 2021 13:32:51 EST from IGnatius T Foobar
Most people don't care about drive trains and performance and other car stuff.
They just want a box with wheels to drive to the local Starbucks.

 



[#] Fri Nov 19 2021 08:53:15 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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Of course, and that's fine.  At some point, keeping a gasoline or diesel powered vehicle around will be like collecting vinyl records.  We're not there yet, but it will happen.



[#] Fri Nov 19 2021 14:25:06 EST from LoanShark

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I think any actual haptic feedback stuff, on the steering wheel at least, will most likely continue to be reserved only for warnings from the driving-assistance technology rather than any attempt to simulate road feel.

I've only ever driven one car that had that crap. It was a 228i Gran Coupe that I got as a loaner while my 330i was in for maintenance. It was for the lane departure warning; if you start to wander out of your lane, there is a bit of automated steering (you can actually feel the wheel turning for you) accompanied by a bit of haptic vibration from the steering wheel.

Luckily my '17 330i does not have this stuff; BMW is not like Subaru where all the tech is included on the base trim level. (They nickle-and-dime you to death with option packages.)

[#] Mon Nov 22 2021 22:30:08 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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My M235i has the lane departure warning, but only above 45 mph. I'm not sure if it has collision avoidance braking. 

The M4 has lane departure warning, at lower speeds, and proactive braking. I don't think it has lane correction. 

But I was talking about a driving simulator, where the haptic feedback simulates the road noise - and where, on sliding the ass out on my virtual M4, I quickly corrected it, and went along my way - only to realize later, *after* the session, that I had experienced the complete and authentic sensation of the *weight* of the car on the back axis sliding out, and correcting it - in sync with my steering, breaking and throttle adjustments. There *was* no 4000 pound car sliding it's rear out behind me. I was in a seat in my living room that didn't even have hydraulic motion simulators... but I *experienced* the sensation and correcting it felt exactly like it does in real life.  

But that does bring up an interesting point. If they can simulate the experience of a 4000 lb car breaking loose accurately enough that it is convincing on an XBox... 

Why couldn't they do something similar in a real car with modern "drive by wire" steering that tends to cause a dead steering sensation? 

Eventually, you would have to wager that this is exactly what they'll do. Electric steering takes away they road feel, so just like they pipe in synthetic engine sounds - they'll eventually have sensors that translate real world wheel data into synthetic feelings on the steering column. 


Fri Nov 19 2021 14:25:06 EST from LoanShark

I think any actual haptic feedback stuff, on the steering wheel at least, will most likely continue to be reserved only for warnings from the driving-assistance technology rather than any attempt to simulate road feel.

I've only ever driven one car that had that crap. It was a 228i Gran Coupe that I got as a loaner while my 330i was in for maintenance. It was for the lane departure warning; if you start to wander out of your lane, there is a bit of automated steering (you can actually feel the wheel turning for you) accompanied by a bit of haptic vibration from the steering wheel.

Luckily my '17 330i does not have this stuff; BMW is not like Subaru where all the tech is included on the base trim level. (They nickle-and-dime you to death with option packages.)

 



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