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In a similar vein, Japan was occupied (or perhaps is still occupied, depending on your perspective) to ensure they never became an enemy again. We imposed upon them, as a condition of surrender, that they not maintain a military force used outside of their own country. We said that our own armies would be there to protect them, hence why we maintain military bases that they would rather we not have (we waste land, compared to how they would use the land).
Overall, one could argue that both countries came out well from their respective surrenders.
The technique, interestingly, is an ancient one from the American perspective, one that predates the colonization of the Americas by Europeans. I forget if it was the Aztech or Mayans who used to impose control over other regions by using superior economics and technologies that the other regions became dependant upon, but we do something very similar in both countries to maintain their interest in us as allies.
The technique, interestingly, is an ancient one from the American
Yup. The Romans did it over 2,000 years ago (Gaul, Britannia, etc.).
I was thinking surrender like the Germans surrendered ending WWII.
I understood what you meant - you want them to agree to an unconditional ceasefire without ANY of their demands being met.
It could happen, but it would only last a few years.
Ok, come on, now that was just for effect......
You've read their charter and you know what their demands are. You also know that no amount of past appeasement has worked with "the Palestinians", any more than it worked against Hitler. Because genocidal mania is satisfied by nothing less.
So given that their only two real demands are that all Jews be killed and that no non-Muslim presence be anywhere in the middle east, a surrender that denies them those two demands is not as unreasonable as the response makes it sound.
. But the Irish and the Jewish people do share a bit - at
least in recent history.
The most important thing they share is corned beef. But that's only if you're Irish and/or Jewish and living on the same landmass as New York City.
2014-08-12 18:06 from zooer @uncnsrd
Do the Irish like corned beef or just the American Irish?
Just guessing, but I strongly suspect it is the American Irish - and at that, most likely to the geographic proximaty of Irish and Jewish neighborhoods in the East Coast cities of the early 20th century.
When a particular food/menu item is good, all the ethnic groups flock toward it and attempt to claim it as their own.
I still know "Polacks" who try to claim that ravioli is nothing more than pierogi with tomato sauce.
And who knows - they might be right!
After all, a bagel is nothing more than a Philly pretzel in the shape of a doughnut... <makes hasty move toward the exit, ducking flying bagels...>
So given that their only two real demands are that all Jews be killed
and that no non-Muslim presence be anywhere in the middle east, a
surrender that denies them those two demands is not as unreasonable
as the response makes it sound.
Ha ha... that's FUNNY!
Tue Aug 12 2014 23:39:11 EDT from LoanShark @ UncensoredSo given that their only two real demands are that all Jews be killed
and that no non-Muslim presence be anywhere in the middle east, a
surrender that denies them those two demands is not as unreasonable
as the response makes it sound.
Ha ha... that's FUNNY!
Less funny when they want *me* dead.
Mon Aug 11 2014 22:05:14 EDT from Ladyhawke @ Uncensored
Mon Aug 11 2014 09:59:05 PM EDT from triLcat @ UncensoredMon Aug 11 2014 18:19:35 EDTfrom LoanShark @ Uncensored
2014-08-11 08:46 from triLcat @uncnsrd
The Israel situation is simple - Hamas must be brought to full
surrender. Any other solution will end up with rockets continuing to
rain down on Israel.
This only buys you a few years of quiet, while they resupply and rebuild.I was thinking surrender like the Germans surrendered ending WWII.
TriL, you should know by now that Hamas does not surrender. Hell, they won't even keep a 72hr truce....
Germany wouldn't have surrendered if the allies hadn't destroyed Dresden either.
Tue Aug 12 2014 11:39:46 PM EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored
Ok, the guy certainly should be in the running for a Darwin, I'll give you this.
Tue Aug 12 2014 11:39:11 PM EDT from LoanShark @ UncensoredSo given that their only two real demands are that all Jews be killed
and that no non-Muslim presence be anywhere in the middle east, a
surrender that denies them those two demands is not as unreasonable
as the response makes it sound.
Ha ha... that's FUNNY!
Ok, maybe I gave your usual depth of research a little too much weight this time and you actually *haven't* read their charter. Take a breeze through and then rethink whether that statement is so "FUNNY". And you might want to consider that for them Jewish is a state of existence, not a statement of religious observance.
The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: 0 Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree. (from the Hamas charter: http://www.standwithus.com/online_booklets/HamasCharter/HamasCharter.pdf)
We in the West seem to consistently have this blind-spot in which we insist on thinking that others' (nations/religions/protesters) protests are based on the grievances *we Westerners* would have instead of properly listening to what they actually say. We made that mistake with Russia; we made it with Nazi Germany; we're making it now with Russia (again), Iran, Syria, and the muslim (small m) extremist terror organizations.
Regardless of whether the grievances we think they should have are "reasonable" or not from our perspective, resolving grievances we think they should have will not resolve the grievances those people actually *do* have.
In this case, the grievance of ALL of these extremist groups is that any non-Muslim or Muslim that is not of the right type and observance level - and especially any Jew - stands on any land that ever had "Muslim feet upon it" without being either dead, converted, or under Sharia law. Thus, no lack of fence, extra electricity, open borders, or lack of military response is going to resolve that grievance - ever. Unless of course, you are saying that you are willing for all the world to choose to either convert to Islam, live under Sharia law, or lay down and die. Because I can promise with utter conviction that when they are done with the Jews, they will next come for the Christians and the Buddists, and the Gypsies, and the.....
Wed Aug 13 2014 04:24:05 EDT from triLcat @ UncensoredGermany wouldn't have surrendered if the allies hadn't destroyed Dresden either.
Germans wouldn't have surrenedered if the mad guy wouldn't have committed suicide.
Maybe we should start a rumor that there is a huge colony of "Zionists" on another planet, and all the haters will shoot themselves into space.
"My friend the communist
Holds meetings in his RV
I can't afford his gas
So I'm stuck here watching tv
I don't have digital
I don't have diddly squat
It's not having what you want
It's wanting what you've got
[Chorus]
I'm gonna soak up the sun
I'm gonna tell everyone
To lighten up, I'm gonna tell 'em that
I've got no one to blame
For every time I feel lame
I'm looking up"
~Sheryl Crow, Soak Up the Sun
It's amusing to hear Sheryl "don't use toilet paper because it causes global warming" Crow calling someone *else* a communist.