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[#] Mon Nov 13 2017 05:58:26 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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It does, although it was the only article I found (in my not-very-deep search) that provided any practical use for this information at all.

[#] Sat Dec 23 2017 14:18:06 EST from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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The real reason why Solaris (and AIX, HP/UX) will be phased out soon is that you do not get any skilled nerds to support it anymore.

Reason no 1 for this: Computers have become too easy in general. I recently moved a hard drive with win10 on it from a broken pc into a far newer one (two generations at least) and it just fucking booted and the os simply worked! This was pure luck, I accidentally booted the machine. Originally I intended to install on a fresh M2 disk and copy over the data from the old hd.

Reason no 2: Solaris upped the cost for support when Larry laid his dirty fingers on it. So the universities in germany quit using it. This means, students never get in touch with solaris today.

Reason no 3: MS shoved its OS up the asses of universities, so every computer pool room now is rather Windows instead of Linux. When I started studying in 2001, there were two exceptional pool rooms with windows, for the architecture students and people needing MS compatible software.

Also, when I started studying, people were actually interested in Linux as an alternative. When I finished studying last year (don't ask, just don't ask) almost every CS student used windows laptops. A few used Macs. Maybe one out of 50 had a linux installed.

So people having studied CS that leave the university today have grown up in a MS world where computers are so easy, almost nobody is able to trace and fix non-trivial problems. Hell, they barely can attach to and leave a screen session. They probably would need to be hospitalized when they see someone using a screen inside a screen...



[#] Sat Dec 23 2017 14:24:39 EST from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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Oh and yes, the big northern german car manufacturer where I work at the moment is phasing out Solaris, too. Our Oracle (11g...) DBs are still on Solaris and we are afraid of moving it to linux based virtualization. Our application servers are moved to kvm machines early next year.

The main reason is that the one knowledgeable person will retire at the end of next year. After that, there will be no one left that has in-depth knowledge of Solaris.

AIX and HPUX is long gone.

And of course, our new linux servers will probably be too small for the application we are supporting. But the new vm's were created with a one-size fits all approach... 



[#] Wed Dec 27 2017 13:02:34 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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The real reason why Solaris (and AIX, HP/UX) will be phased out soon is that you do not get any skilled nerds to support it anymore.

Reason no 1 for this: Computers have become too easy in general. I recently moved a hard drive with win10 on it from a broken pc into a far newer one (two generations at least) and it just fucking booted and the os simply worked! This was pure luck, I accidentally booted the machine. Originally I intended to install on a fresh M2 disk and copy over the data from the old hd.

To a certain extent ... perhaps.  But as I have been pointing out in other forums ... Windows successfully defended its desktop hegemony against the challenge from Linux but has utterly fallen to the assault everywhere else.  Windows 10 is probably already the second most widely deployed client-side Linux distribution now (second to Android of course).  As previously noted, it works really well, and you basically get the best of both worlds without having to run a virtual machine.

Solaris hasn't been viable as a client-side operating system for the last 20 years.  In a university setting in the 1990's you might have been lucky to have access to a Sun workstation, but more likely the computer pool room was full of dumb terminals connected to a single Sun machine.  (I wasn't that lucky ... I studied in Pennsylvania so we only had access to Unisys technology: the descendents of Burroughs and Sperry host systems.)

It seems to me that the reason Solaris and other proprietary unices are becoming extinct is the most simple reason: no one wants to purchase and maintain the expensive computers they run on ... plus those computers don't virtualize on anything other than themselves.   Sun was tepid on x86 even before they became part of Oracle.  And once customers go x86, they inevitably go Linux, where the pool of available ISV software plus the pool of available open source software is gigantic.

A more real-world description of what the_mgt is seeing: understandably, no one wants to deploy on a platform that doesn't have a talent pool to support it, and universities aren't anxious to teach platforms that aren't being deployed in the real world (except for LISP, they just can't let go of fucking LISP).

 



[#] Wed Dec 27 2017 14:41:31 EST from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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last 20 years.  In a university setting in the 1990's you might have
been lucky to have access to a Sun workstation, but more likely the
computer pool room was full of dumb terminals connected to a single
Sun machine.  (I wasn't that lucky ... I studied in Pennsylvania so

In the case of my university, it was dumb X-terminals connected to a small number (1 or 2 or 3?) of Alpha machines. And a random Linux box or two on the side. All connected to an NFS server.

[#] Fri Jan 05 2018 08:37:53 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Heh... nobody mentions FreeBSD, although it still seems to have a following. My home firewall uses that OS, for example.

Solaris... I have a VM with the OS on it because I wanted to figure out how to port our product to it, but couldn't quite get the code to compile properly.
I feel like it forces you to jump through innumerable hoops of despair to do the most trivial things on it because of its frankly bizarre (to my untrained eye) folder scheme where you need to know the names of various vendors to do anything... or so it appears to me.

It feels like you have to bash your brains against the thing to learn all the arbitrary details that help you twist your noodle cock-eyed in just the right way to accomplish all the tasks you'd want on the thing. After mastering the OS, and achieving Solaris-nirvana, you become rewarded with the realization that nobody cares anymore, and everyone else is promoting fucking Ubuntu or some shit.

Fucking Ubuntu is, incidentally, not a great idea. Firstly, it reproduces on its own without fucking. Secondly, it isn't warm and cuddly... no OS is.
So... the next time you're tempted, try to avoid it. Grab a wife or husband or some warm body with all the parts you like, and fuck that instead.

[#] Sat Jan 06 2018 19:24:34 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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The general consensus seems to be that Solaris and SPARC are, for all practical purposes, on the chopping block.  Thousands of Oracle employees have been laid off (including a member of my wife's family, from whom I heard the news) , and the vast majority of them seem to be in the Solaris and SPARC product lines.  They have support obligations that extend out to 2034, but they've canceled all plans for Solaris 12, instead offering something they call "Solaris 11.next" which is basically Solaris 11 with rolling release updates.

As noted elsewhere, I'm a fan of rolling releases, but that model doesn't pair well with software vendors who need to sell major upgrades at big-ticket prices.

Oracle is, I think, a company in trouble.  There will always be a need for high-end databases, but not enough to sustain Oracle as an industry titan.  It's common news by now that customers like Salesforce are moving away from Oracle, and people running smaller workloads are preferring MariaDB or even Microsoft SQL Server.

I don't see Oracle going out of business, though.  They'll pass into that same underworld with companies like Unisys and Xerox (IBM is heading there too) where they're still huge, but no one really knows what they do, and 100% of the employees are suicidally miserable.



[#] Sat Jan 06 2018 21:11:23 EST from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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be in the Solaris and SPARC product lines.  They have support
obligations that extend out to 2034, but they've canceled all plans

And no later than 2034... interesting coincidence ;)

[#] Sat Jan 06 2018 21:11:44 EST from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Of course, the world ended in 2012 anyway

[#] Sat Jan 06 2018 21:15:03 EST from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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Oracle is, I think, a company in trouble.  There will always be a
need for high-end databases, but not enough to sustain Oracle as an

I'm not sure there always will. There are many, many open ecosystem or cloud alternatives right now that are highly performant (or at least very horizontally scalable) that can handle Tons Of Fucking Data. Their SQL dialects might not be as rich, but it turns out that that doesn't matter so much.

[#] Mon Jan 08 2018 13:46:00 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Unless they get clever, and think beyond databases or something to provide a service that folks need.

[#] Mon Jan 08 2018 17:24:21 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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They do more than databases.  Oracle has all sorts of business software ... CRM, supply chain management, ERP ... expensive stuff.

They're still the second largest software company in the world, less than half the size of Micro$oft but still significantly ahead of companies like SAP.  They're not going away anytime soon, even if the remains of Sun are ground into dust and the Relational Database revenue dries up in the face of commodity alternatives.

It doesn't help that Oracle is a company that a lot of people in the industry love to hate.  Sun was a company run by engineers.  Oracle isn't.



[#] Tue Jan 09 2018 17:39:16 EST from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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Oracle databases aren't going away. Big companies love to buy stuff. Why use Centos when you can buy a Redhat license. Things that are for free have no value. Unless the company at least sells support.

On the other hand, in my project, they rather let me fool around for a month instead of paying some oracle crack for a day... but the big blue companies I am working for are totally out of their mind.



[#] Wed Jan 10 2018 10:08:14 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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I've seen that plenty of times too.  Big money spent on RHEL when there's already plenty of Linux talent in-house.  I don't mind so much because at least some of the money paid to Red Hat is funding more Linux and open source development.  Or you could buy Oracle Linux, which is basically the same thing as CentOS and instead of your money going back into Linux development it goes into Larry Ellison's pocket.

I suppose you could pay Oracle for MySQL as well.  :)   I think it's hilarious that Monty forked MySQL and pretty much the entire world went to MariaDB with him.



[#] Thu Jan 11 2018 08:21:53 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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I've been more a Postgresql fanboy, I suppose, than MySQL/MariaDB anyway.

Although the differences between these matters less and less.

[#] Tue Jan 16 2018 14:25:35 EST from Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored

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I have first hand knowledge of how bad things are in the cloud division of Oracle. They have ZERO clue and are driving out the few employees that do.

[#] Mon Jan 22 2018 19:09:20 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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I don't know anything about Oracle Cloud but I like it better than Amazon, only because I don't like the idea of one company monopolizing the cloud business.

In the not too distant future, Oracle will probably settle in as a vendor of middleware and business intelligence software, offered both as packaged software and as a service. Solaris and SPARC are already the walking dead, and high end Oracle DB is like IBM mainframes in that it'll be around forever but it will take a century to fully decline.

[#] Tue Jan 23 2018 14:15:47 EST from Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored

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I read recently that Amazon controls 80% of the cloud business. So it's either very small, or Amazon is just that damned good.

[#] Wed Jan 24 2018 07:32:50 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Amazon is just that damned good.

Unfortunately.

You pay only for what you use... but you pay for everything. CPU time, RAM, disk space, bandwidth... all of it. But only what you actually use.

And as far as I've been able to tell, whatever hardware they're using, it works damned well. I moved our source repository to an AWS instance from our own hardware in a VMWare ESXi environment, and enjoyed a significant improvement in performance in cloning and general use. I also moved our development ticketing tool (Redmine) out there, and it works better, too. All the production servers I've moved to AWS work pretty well when I don't do anything stupid (like consume all the RAM because I didn't allocated any swap space or the like).

Run out of hard-drive space for your machine? Not a problem. Just allocate more, twiddle the OS to recognize it, and without having to take down the machine, you can have more hard-drive space for it.

Are you a corporate user trying to deal with layers of security for these machines? Their IAM system lets you provide fairly granular control over who gets to do what. My builds go to an S3 bucket (ridiculously cheap storage), and I provide logins for people to access it for installing updates. Way easier than setting up FTP or SCP crap and directing people with logins for it.

The only thing that really sucks about it is that nagging feeling that, somehow, by using Amazon's services, you're killing your own children.

[#] Wed Jan 24 2018 07:41:10 EST from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Not to change the subject, but...

I performed this update that broke the web application I use. It's my fault, as I altered the database to use utf8_general_ci collation instead of latin1_general_ci, because, well, I prefer a sane character encoding scheme, and don't really understand why these idiots used latin1 (especially when something else they used conflicted with that character encoding, which called attention to the problem in the first place).

This meant I needed to hunt down all the .php files using latin1_general_ci and change it to utf8_general_ci.

In Windows, I likely would have had to iterate over every PHP file, pull it up in my favorite text editor, global search-and-replace it, then move to the next one. It might have taken me thirty minutes to an hour to fix.

In Unix, I just had to figure out the right string of commands, which took me all of about 3 minutes. Used 'grep' to recursively search for the files in the subfolder that had the offending text, 'cut' to get just the filename, 'sort' to put them in alphabetical order, and ensure everything was grouped together, 'uniq' to ensure I didn't have any duplicate lines, and finally 'xargs' combined with 'sed' to edit the filenames and make the global change.

Fucking xargs, man... what a beautiful command.

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