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[#] Sat Aug 28 2021 21:34:59 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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It is his favorite distro. 

I've been a Debian guy from the start. Package Management in the other distros used to suck - they still do, compared to apt. That is why the most successful varieties of Linux are basically all built on Debian. Rpi, Ubuntu - if there is a popular consumer variety of Linux - it is a Debian fork. 

But - every time I've had some sort of issue with Debian - instead of telling me how to fix it, 9 out of 10 responses suggest switching to some other distro. Mint sticks out. But lots of others too - for lots of reasons. 

Not only are Linux guys evangelists about Linux - they're also evangelists about their favorite distro of Linux. It is one of my big turn-offs about the community. I'm not asking for advice on switching from Debian, I'm asking how to fix what I'm encountering with Debian. You didn't like Debian, had problems, and switched to CentOS and never looked back - fantastic. You don't have the answer to my question. 

I don't mind the idea that certain distros are better suited to production environments - that is different. But, "average home user, I use Debian and X is happening..." 

"Switch to GooberDistro!" 

Is a crap answer. 

 

Sat Aug 28 2021 18:09:06 EDT from Nurb432

I fall under that umbrella.  but i also have been around long enough to understand im not going to be there forever, and 'standards' are important for when that happens.  Even if those standards are lame or i disagree with them, its 'standard' so they know the next guy can come in and get up to speed. The enterprise is larger than me.

Its not my house, so its their rules. People that come in and flat out refuse to keep up their end of the bargain, well, they shouldn't be around. 

And its not so much that Linux isn't supported at all, just not for the in-house dev team to do their code on.  Canned apps, we do have Linux server support.  But, its RH or Oracle. How he got SUSE installed, ill never even guess.

Sat Aug 28 2021 05:33:38 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions


I mean - this is really common because so many Linux folks are Linux *and* Foss *evangelists*. 

 

 



 



[#] Sun Aug 29 2021 07:55:41 EDT from Nurb432

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I understand why wanted it, but normally we dont install things that are not supported unless its signed off by upper management. "i want it to build something from scratch" would not have flown. He cant do it himself, it had to go thru 2 teams to do it. ( vmware for the server build and Linux team for the actual OS install. Unless it was after we had templates, then Linux team didnt even install anything. it was about the same time frame )

Sure, once he has a place if he was quiet about it, he could have built the app in whatever tech he wanted.  Most people dont know or care what an app is built on as long as it works.  "functioned as requested, sign off"  but server side, we know.. 

 

 

Now ~15 years ago it wasn't so controlled..   had a few desktops that became 'app servers'.   Was funny, one summer when a critical app for one of the departments just vanished off the network. "hi, um we get an error today" "ok, who is this, what did it do, who did you work with"  Could have been developed by the department back then, never knew. Me and my dev guy converted countless MSAccess apps over to something supportable, but no, not in this case.  It took a couple of days but tracked it down to have been running on a desktop under a contractors desk in our department who had written it for them, but no one else knew. Contractor left, couple months later the PC was erased and put back on the shelf to be rolled out to someone else.

Me and my dev guy managed to find an earlier backup copy he had on a CD in his desk among other garbage ( after i picked the lock.. no key to the desk ). It was using a pre-beta release of .net, and had a dump of the database 2 years old.  Things changed after that.     But that was a different ( smaller, only about 3000 end users ) agency, and the one we all moved to a couple of years later did not have their act together, at all. So that was something we started doing when we took over ( long story of that agency 'move'. And we still dont have our act together enough, and we are way more exposed, tons of things, even citizen facing.. 40k users not including outside. But its getting better, in some ways )

Also had a help desk system server ( why i was  hired ) on a old desktop when i got there. But at least it was in the data center, sitting on the floor at the bottom of a rack.  Got that fixed really fast :) 



[#] Sun Aug 29 2021 16:14:34 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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This is what I like about being a straight systems guy.


Oh... we get yelled at just like the rest of you when this shit happens - and often we take it first and worst, honestly - but - while we're busy holding the front line taking all the abuse from the client/customers and management/executives - you guys are scrambling to figure out who did what and how to fix it - and if you can't do that - eventually those client/customers and management/executives are going to get past our defense and into you - and then the REAL blood letting begins...


And we just sit there at our desks and smile.

 

Sun Aug 29 2021 07:55:41 EDT from Nurb432

I understand why wanted it, but normally we dont install things that are not supported unless its signed off by upper management. "i want it to build something from scratch" would not have flown. He cant do it himself, it had to go thru 2 teams to do it. ( vmware for the server build and Linux team for the actual OS install. Unless it was after we had templates, then Linux team didnt even install anything. it was about the same time frame )

Sure, once he has a place if he was quiet about it, he could have built the app in whatever tech he wanted.  Most people dont know or care what an app is built on as long as it works.  "functioned as requested, sign off"  but server side, we know.. 

 

 

Now ~15 years ago it wasn't so controlled..   had a few desktops that became 'app servers'.   Was funny, one summer when a critical app for one of the departments just vanished off the network. "hi, um we get an error today" "ok, who is this, what did it do, who did you work with"  Could have been developed by the department back then, never knew. Me and my dev guy converted countless MSAccess apps over to something supportable, but no, not in this case.  It took a couple of days but tracked it down to have been running on a desktop under a contractors desk in our department who had written it for them, but no one else knew. Contractor left, couple months later the PC was erased and put back on the shelf to be rolled out to someone else.

Me and my dev guy managed to find an earlier backup copy he had on a CD in his desk among other garbage ( after i picked the lock.. no key to the desk ). It was using a pre-beta release of .net, and had a dump of the database 2 years old.  Things changed after that.     But that was a different ( smaller, only about 3000 end users ) agency, and the one we all moved to a couple of years later did not have their act together, at all. So that was something we started doing when we took over ( long story of that agency 'move'. And we still dont have our act together enough, and we are way more exposed, tons of things, even citizen facing.. 40k users not including outside. But its getting better, in some ways )

Also had a help desk system server ( why i was  hired ) on a old desktop when i got there. But at least it was in the data center, sitting on the floor at the bottom of a rack.  Got that fixed really fast :) 



 



[#] Sun Aug 29 2021 16:38:51 EDT from Nurb432

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Oh, speaking of picking locks..   just a few years ago our deployment team was in a jam. I guess their main PXE boot/Microsoft RIS server took a dump.   it was in a server cabinet in their area ( why, i have zero clue it was down in the basement, in a secure area, NOT the datacenter ). And the lost the key.... 

I forget how i found out, but next day brought my lock picks in, and a new pick gun i had just bought ... "there, you are in" ( and i removed the locks so they couldn't screw up )



[#] Tue Aug 31 2021 09:11:18 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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IT was just support for the
core business. This is why IT is so often regarded as a cost-center
and not a revenue producer. It is what made the cloud so popular. The
idea that you could get RID of the cost center and just do your core
business. You've just shifted the cost-center, really - but something
about not having that cost center INTERNAL on the books appeals to a
lot of the C level staff. I bet it has to do with the bottom line
financials.

It has to do with capex vs. opex. Anything that improves EBITDA is considered a Good Thing by the bean counters, and EBITDA is calculated without the cost of capex. It makes the company's books look more attractive.

IT has an interesting history. When computers started appearing in larger companies half a century ago, they were primarily used for accounting -- which is why the wrangling of computers was a function of the Accounting Department. It wasn't until later that it became a separate department in most places. Sometimes it was even called the IBM Department, but eventually they settled on Management Information Services (MIS), then Information Services (IS), then Information Technology (IT).

The move to a cloud (public or dedicated private, doesn't matter) is part of a trend called "digital transformation" which began many years ago. The first step was to close your own data center and operate within a colocation facility. The next step was to move to managed hosting, with someone else maintaining the servers for you, so you only focus on your applications. After that, and this is where we are now, you don't even bother with knowing much about the servers; you just rent time on someone else's servers. This can take the form of a massive public cloud (the two evil empires of Seattle), a dedicated private cloud, or anywhere in between.

As most of you know, I work in this business. What our customers find is that they still need people to operate the technology aspect of their core business. What changes is the nature of the jobs they do. We have been their "IT Department" for the last 20 years or so. They don't want to deal with backups and topology and server upgrades; they certainly don't want to deal with things like power and air conditioning. There is a lot of value in providing those services for them.

[#] Wed Sep 01 2021 16:28:22 EDT from Nurb432

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what in the hell..  'I cant get logged in'...   no freaking kidding you cant.    It was so long of a name that AD died on it ( normally its first.last and email is the same ), so they shortened it BY FAR but it had exceeded my systems limits too so never got the update passed down.

This is america just call yourself bob.  geez

 



[#] Thu Sep 02 2021 13:11:47 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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I once called Dell Enterprise support... it went like this: 

(Heavy Indian Accent,) Tank you for callink Dell Tekneecall subort. My name es John Smit. Owh may I elp you tuday? 

Me: Well, John. I've got a production server down with a Perc error and I need to get it back up as quickly as possible. 

Agent: Ok. I understand your Perc card in your server has an error state and you need assistance in correcting this issue. Before we go on, can I get your name and callback number in case we get disconnected? 

Me: Sure. My number is dot-dot-dot and my name is Vikran Samanathiravishatan

Agent: Pardon me? Could you please repeat your name... 

Me: The name is Vikran, Samanathiravishatan, John Smith... 

Agent: Long pause.... (quiet chuckle). Ahhhhh. I see, Vikran. Ok. So, tell me more about this problem with your Perc... 

We went through the entire call with me calling him John and him calling me Vikran. 

At the end of the call, I said, "Thank you for your assistance today, John..."

And he responded, "And thank you for being a Dell customer, Vikran - have a pleasant day..." 

 



[#] Thu Sep 02 2021 15:58:50 EDT from Nurb432

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Why yes my name is Beelzebub. They call me Bee. 



[#] Fri Sep 03 2021 12:36:35 EDT from Nurb432

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Well, just got an email from our director.

Among other typical fluff you get in those emails:  "We are moving one of our lead managers to another position, but we are not going to back fill at this time as we are going to be  hiring an outside contractor to evaluate our current organizational structure"  I sort of knew both, but now its in writing.  A great way to improve morale. 

 

Sounds Like we are all going to be reorged out the door in favor of the favorite contractor of this evaluation firm.  Early retirement is coming i suspect. Too bad my house is not paid off yet, ill have to find another job for a couple of years. 



[#] Fri Sep 03 2021 17:36:49 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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Better... "And can I get your name, sir?" 

"Shiva." 

"Shiva? And your last name" 

Shiva TheDestroyer. 

:)


Thu Sep 02 2021 15:58:50 EDT from Nurb432

Why yes my name is Beelzebub. They call me Bee. 



 



[#] Sat Sep 04 2021 15:01:30 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Sometimes people end up just working for the contractor who took over. Whether that's a good thing is uncertain, but it does happen.

It's kind of a shame, the move to cloud computing has kind of turned IT into a "race to the bottom" for many orgs.

[#] Sat Sep 04 2021 15:39:34 EDT from Nurb432

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My position is pretty unique, so i think ill survive fallout.

But if not, i have contacts at other agencies. And if that fails, then early retirement for extra cash, and i go back to private sector for a little bit, for insurance ( and get the house paid off )



[#] Mon Sep 06 2021 03:59:33 EDT from darknetuser

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2021-09-03 12:36 from Nurb432
Well, just got an email from our director.

Among other typical fluff you get in those emails:  "We are moving

one of our lead managers to another position, but we are not going to

back fill at this time as we are going to be  hiring an outside

contractor to evaluate our current organizational structure"  I sort

of knew both, but now its in writing.  A great way to improve
morale. 

 

Sounds Like we are all going to be reorged out the door in favor of

the favorite contractor of this evaluation firm.  Early retirement

is coming i suspect. Too bad my house is not paid off yet, ill have

to find another job for a couple of years. 


That sounds bad.

This sort of firm gets the best out of me. Lots of talking about teamwork and inclusiveness and yadda yadda and next thing you know they stab their employees.

The worst thing is they often don't stab their employees for a profit at all. It is just politics. Quite often the employees are stabbed at a loss.


But it is ok because we have an inclusivity program and we love teamwork.

[#] Mon Sep 06 2021 07:33:37 EDT from Nurb432

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Ya, they keep pushing 'making it a preferred workplace' and all that nonsense.  Then this. Even if its 100% above board and they are not hiring the iceman, it still looks bad. 



[#] Mon Sep 06 2021 12:28:58 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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Sometimes "not backfilling" to flatten a very tall organization can *actually* lead to improvements, in morale, in performance, in efficiency.

But often it becomes, "We're going to do all the same work, with less people, so that we make more money!"

Which almost always fails.

 



[#] Mon Sep 06 2021 13:05:53 EDT from Nurb432

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Oh, not saying the concept of restructuring is bad.  We are top heavy and poorly organized. ( so far every restructure we have done has only made it worse ). But when a consultant comes in, instead of doing it yourself... normally its not a good result for the people and is just a pussy's way out of taking responsibility. "well, the consultant said to do this, it wasn't my idea to can you"  I have been thru this more than once.  It has the same 'feel' already, but i guess we will see as the wheels start moving.   

Being in the office 3 days a week ill see what is going on better than many, and our manager is really good about keeping us informed ( unlike most. .which is one of our problems. No trickle down.. ).  That is how I knew almost a week before it was announced to the rest of us. I found out the same evening it was announced in the 'manager' meetings. 

 

 

Mon Sep 06 2021 12:28:58 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Sometimes "not backfilling" to flatten a very tall organization can *actually* lead to improvements, in morale, in performance, in efficiency.

But often it becomes, "We're going to do all the same work, with less people, so that we make more money!"

Which almost always fails.

 



 



[#] Thu Sep 09 2021 14:47:06 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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Yeah, I understand the reasons for your pessimism. I'd say more than 80% of the time, it goes the way you fear it is going. 

 

Mon Sep 06 2021 13:05:53 EDT from Nurb432

Oh, not saying the concept of restructuring is bad.  We are top heavy and poorly organized. ( so far every restructure we have done has only made it worse ). But when a consultant comes in, instead of doing it yourself... normally its not a good result for the people and is just a pussy's way out of taking responsibility. "well, the consultant said to do this, it wasn't my idea to can you"  I have been thru this more than once.  It has the same 'feel' already, but i guess we will see as the wheels start moving.   

Being in the office 3 days a week ill see what is going on better than many, and our manager is really good about keeping us informed ( unlike most. .which is one of our problems. No trickle down.. ).  That is how I knew almost a week before it was announced to the rest of us. I found out the same evening it was announced in the 'manager' meetings. 

 

 

Mon Sep 06 2021 12:28:58 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Sometimes "not backfilling" to flatten a very tall organization can *actually* lead to improvements, in morale, in performance, in efficiency.

But often it becomes, "We're going to do all the same work, with less people, so that we make more money!"

Which almost always fails.

 



 



 



[#] Thu Sep 09 2021 16:46:54 EDT from Nurb432

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2 more people quit this week.



[#] Fri Sep 10 2021 12:44:54 EDT from Nurb432

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"here is a copy of your applecare documents" "they put it in the wrong name, should we get that fixed"  "oh, have you seen your new laptop yet"

I bet its been lost..  damnit   Sitting in a room " what is this.. what do we do with it, it doesn't say HP and we cant get it to pxe boot to install windows"



[#] Sun Sep 12 2021 17:18:09 EDT from LoanShark

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there is a reason why the movie Office Space brought in the management consultants for the opening scenes.

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