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[#] Tue Oct 12 2021 18:36:34 EDT from Nurb432

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I think it would be a mix.  Most people are used to web interface, but if you are REALLY hard core paranoid, text removes the browser leakage from the equation.

I guess if you had to choose, id go with web.



[#] Wed Oct 13 2021 18:06:38 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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I intend to offer both ... the problem seems to be that a service name (such as uncensored.i2p if it is available) can only point to a single port, if I understand correctly?

[#] Wed Oct 13 2021 19:14:22 EDT from Nurb432

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Ya. 1:1, just like TOR.



[#] Thu Oct 14 2021 11:36:12 EDT from darknetuser

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For starters I'll describe my setup and you can tell me if it's
acceptable.


So far it sounds right to me.

I used to run a setup like that but instead of a secude VLAN etc etc I used either IPSEC or SSH with port redirections (depending on the case). The original I2P implementation was intended to run as you are doing, with an I2P node somewhere in the network and the clients connecting to it as needed.

[#] Thu Oct 14 2021 11:38:04 EDT from darknetuser

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2021-10-12 17:41 from IGnatius T Foobar
Good. I'm playing around as a user for a little while before I attempt

to deploy services again. The router will continue to run at home
because the nature of I2P means it can run pretty much anywhere, and I

can just send the connections to the server's actual location over an

encrypted tunnel.

Would the typical I2P user be more attracted to a text-based service,

or to webcit running as an eepsite?



Eepsites are ok as long as they don't require javascript. If they require javascript they will shunned and mocked and distristed and pissed on.

IMO a text based interface is a better fit.

[#] Thu Oct 14 2021 11:39:25 EDT from darknetuser

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2021-10-13 18:06 from IGnatius T Foobar
I intend to offer both ... the problem seems to be that a service name

(such as uncensored.i2p if it is available) can only point to a single

port, if I understand correctly?



Yes, but you can register uncensored.i2p and ssh.uncensored.i2p (for example) each pointing to a different port.

[#] Thu Oct 14 2021 14:55:57 EDT from Nurb432

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Agreed on JS being frowned upon on any dark-network, but i do think most ( not all, just most ) people these days prefer HTML over TTY. 

Thu Oct 14 2021 11:38:04 AM EDT from darknetuser
Eepsites are ok as long as they don't require javascript. If they require javascript they will shunned and mocked and distristed and pissed on.

IMO a text based interface is a better fit.

 



[#] Thu Oct 14 2021 17:25:32 EDT from zelgomer

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I would generally prefer TTY except for a) I'd be hesitant to install a new client that isn't something already widely in use (e.g., ssh, irc clients, etc.), and b) I simply haven't come across many TTY-based services on the darknet, so I'm just used to connecting with a browser. At risk of exposing myself as a young'n, I only just recently discovered gopher. I'm not sure if there are any gopher-based eepsites out there, but if there were, I would support it.

[#] Fri Oct 15 2021 04:27:41 EDT from darknetuser

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2021-10-14 17:25 from zelgomer
I would generally prefer TTY except for a) I'd be hesitant to install a

new client that isn't something already widely in use (e.g., ssh, irc

clients, etc.), and b) I simply haven't come across many TTY-based
services on the darknet, so I'm just used to connecting with a browser.

At risk of exposing myself as a young'n, I only just recently
discovered gopher. I'm not sure if there are any gopher-based eepsites

out there, but if there were, I would support it.



In order to use gopher in I2P you'd first need to write a gopher client which is i2p aware. You can't get a transparent gopher experience using standard tunnels.

[#] Fri Oct 15 2021 08:33:55 EDT from zelgomer

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In order to use gopher in I2P you'd first need to write a gopher
client which is i2p aware. You can't get a transparent gopher
experience using standard tunnels.

Ah, that's right. I recall seeing a conversation about that now in #i2p once.

[#] Fri Oct 15 2021 09:02:39 EDT from Nurb432

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Ah Gopher.  And Archie.. and UUCP, and usenet... The good old days before the net was ruined by too much commercialism and communism ( not that kind, the kind where 'commoners' flood the gates ). Back when men were real men, women were real women and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.

And i still used my AtariST

.

 



[#] Sat Oct 16 2021 14:25:09 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Agreed on JS being frowned upon on any dark-network, but i do think
most ( not all, just most ) people these days prefer HTML over TTY. 

Yeah, that's my concern. WebCit requires JavaScript, and that's not going to change unless Uncensored and Citadel become so amazingly popular on the darknet that it makes sense to write a dedicated version.

Text based interface makes a lot of sense. My concern there is that people will have to manually configure client tunnels in their I2P routers to use it. "Build a client tunnel on your router with these parameters, then telnet to it" sounds like something high-maintenance, unless I2P users can be counted upon to be savvy enough to do that?

I think what we have to offer here would be very attractive to the I2P community.
I just want to present it in the most sensible way.

[#] Sat Oct 16 2021 14:26:26 EDT from Nurb432

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Didn't realize it was using JS ( not paying attention enough i guess )

So, ya, its a non-starter for darknet.



[#] Sat Oct 16 2021 19:04:04 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Ok, if you have I2P then try this:

d77ompkdxbd6fq6mfxba2ulx46r37jlncvyy5fmvbmhqf4hlmgjq.b32.i2p

That's the text-based interface, so I guess you have to build a client tunnel to that, and then telnet to the client tunnel port on your router?

[#] Sat Oct 16 2021 19:53:39 EDT from Nurb432

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that would be my understanding ( only used web on it before, that is mostly magic, just proxy settings in the browser ).

Ill give it a try myself tomorow. Tho im sure someone else will beat me to iit



[#] Sun Oct 17 2021 11:55:56 EDT from zelgomer

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2021-10-16 19:04 from IGnatius T Foobar

Ok, if you have I2P then try this:

d77ompkdxbd6fq6mfxba2ulx46r37jlncvyy5fmvbmhqf4hlmgjq.b32.i2p

That's the text-based interface, so I guess you have to build a client

tunnel to that, and then telnet to the client tunnel port on your
router?



Hello, coming to you via i2p!
Yes, setup was exactly as you described. I created a new tunnel, pointed it to that address, and then connected with telnet, worked on first attempt.

[#] Sun Oct 17 2021 11:57:51 EDT from Nurb432

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Cool, saves me the trouble. i was about ready to start setting I2P up again. Been busy cleaning all morning. 

Sun Oct 17 2021 11:55:56 AM EDT from zelgomer
Hello, coming to you via i2p!
Yes, setup was exactly as you described. I created a new tunnel, pointed it to that address, and then connected with telnet, worked on first attempt.

 



[#] Sun Oct 17 2021 17:55:44 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Hello, coming to you via i2p!

Excellent. Now if I am able to get this service into the address book, will the "d77ompkdxbd6fq6mfxba2ulx46r37jlncvyy5fmvbmhqf4hlmgjq.b32.i2p" name still work, or do I have to re-key it or something? That will decide whether we can start socializing it or if I have to get everything into its final state first.

I want it to be *easy* but not at the expense of doing things that would turn off people in the community. For example, I could build native I2CP into the client and server, but I suspect people would not trust a pre-built client.

And I can't afford another side quest -- webcit-ng has waited too long :)

[#] Sun Oct 17 2021 18:05:32 EDT from Nurb432

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A lot of us are patiently waiting for that :) 

Sun Oct 17 2021 05:55:44 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar
And I can't afford another side quest -- webcit-ng has waited too long :)

 



[#] Sun Oct 17 2021 19:24:00 EDT from zelgomer

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Excellent. Now if I am able to get this service into the address
book, will the
"d77ompkdxbd6fq6mfxba2ulx46r37jlncvyy5fmvbmhqf4hlmgjq.b32.i2p" name

still work, or do I have to re-key it or something? That will decide

whether we can start socializing it or if I have to get everything into

its final state first.

Disclaimer: I've never operated an I2P service, so someone else may have more and better details or tips, but this is how I understand it.
There is no "the" address book, rather every I2P router has its own address book. Imagine if there were no DNS, and everybody managed their own /etc/hosts. I think the reason for this is because the I2P developers view a centralized DNS-like system as a juicy target for potentially compromising the whole thing, so instead the address book is sort of a more a distributed solution.
So what you do is share your b32 address with people who you think may be interested in the service, and then your users can add it to their own address books.
For eepsites, there are jump services available. I think the Java router comes with a few configured by default. These are eepsites where you register your b32 and a name with it, and then if the router fails an address lookup, it defers the request to one of the jump services. If that succeeds, then it prompts you to add the address to your own address book so that next time it doesn't have to go to the jump service. It's sort of a roundabout DNS specifically for eepsites, but I guess it's slightly more secure because it's only used the first time you access an address that's not already in your address book. But anyway, I don't think that helps you much if you're not serving an eepsite.

Honestly, I tend not to add anything to my address book simply because I haven't settled on a setup yet and so I keep reinstalling the OS and the router periodically, and it all gets blown away, anyway.

So in conclusion, no, I don't think you should re-key or anything. In fact, once you start distributing your b32 and have users connecting to it, you should probably take care to be sure it never changes.

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