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[#] Tue Nov 10 2020 22:29:53 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Tue Nov 10 2020 19:24:28 EST from zooer

 

Mon Nov 09 2020 11:47:06 PM EST from ParanoidDelusions

It do find it ironic that the Millennials that grew up loving this franchise seem blind to how prescient it was to the themes we are seeing unfolding across the globe today, or that *they're* the bad guys. 

Read Nineteen Eighty-Four and Brave New World.  Don't say that you read them a long time ago, read them again.

https://biblioklept.org/2013/06/08/huxley-vs-orwell-the-webcomic-2/

 



I guess I should be responding below, not above on quotes. Gonna have to break some habits. 

I haven't read either recently, but I've watched the movie recently enough to familiarize myself with the themes. The annoying thing is if you invoke 1984, the Millennials have already been coached to respond, "Orwell was talking about Right Wing Fascism, you stupid Nazi!" 

They do the same thing about Hunger Games. But everything about the Capitol *reeks* of the nation that would rise up if the Left was the leader of a One Party United States. 


Interesting and relevant topic on my BBS about a TV Series from Russia called, "To the Lake." I'm not going to share those thoughts here, to encourage the curious here to log in over there and contribute to the discussion there. You know what is better than one Citadel Web BBS full of interesting conversation? Two of them. :) 


 



[#] Wed Nov 11 2020 11:41:43 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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So how about that Faux News network?

People are starting to figure out what some of us have always known: they're not a conservative network, they're a Bush network. That should be obvious to anyone who has ever seen Karl Rove on the air.

They've never been kind to President Trump, who has governed as the most genuinely conservative President in the last half century. It's pretty clear that Faux News really just wants to be the network for a controlled opposition in a nation governed by the left -- which is, unsurprisingly, the exact position of the RINOs.

It's finally becoming obvious now. They've stopped trying to hide it, just as the left-wing networks have stopped trying to pretend they're neutral.
The new problem for Faux News is, they face too much competition to genuinely be a left-wing network, and anyone who is still fooled into thinking they're a conservative network is going to die of old age in the next ten years.

The IGlet told me yesterday that he thinks Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham, and Greg Gutfeld should move to OANN and just let Faux News rot by itself.
I agree, but I would also suggest that owning and operating a Real News network would be something fun for Mr. Trump to do after he retires from politics.

As for me, I selected a channel package that doesn't carry any news networks.
I'm not paying for that crap. And as soon as my current contract is up, I'm cutting the cord entirely. I finally got my wife to agree to it. Now if I could only convince her to cancel her Obama Kiddie Porn Flix account...

[#] Wed Nov 11 2020 13:30:22 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Wed Nov 11 2020 11:41:43 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

So how about that Faux News network?

People are starting to figure out what some of us have always known: they're not a conservative network, they're a Bush network. That should be obvious to anyone who has ever seen Karl Rove on the air.

They've never been kind to President Trump, who has governed as the most genuinely conservative President in the last half century. It's pretty clear that Faux News really just wants to be the network for a controlled opposition in a nation governed by the left -- which is, unsurprisingly, the exact position of the RINOs.

It's finally becoming obvious now. They've stopped trying to hide it, just as the left-wing networks have stopped trying to pretend they're neutral.
The new problem for Faux News is, they face too much competition to genuinely be a left-wing network, and anyone who is still fooled into thinking they're a conservative network is going to die of old age in the next ten years.

The IGlet told me yesterday that he thinks Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham, and Greg Gutfeld should move to OANN and just let Faux News rot by itself.
I agree, but I would also suggest that owning and operating a Real News network would be something fun for Mr. Trump to do after he retires from politics.

As for me, I selected a channel package that doesn't carry any news networks.
I'm not paying for that crap. And as soon as my current contract is up, I'm cutting the cord entirely. I finally got my wife to agree to it. Now if I could only convince her to cancel her Obama Kiddie Porn Flix account...

Didn't Fox News change significantly after Rupert sold it to the new guy - that is when it shifted Left. Not that Rupert wasn't a Bush RINO globalist himself - but I feel like the network stopped any pretense of being actually conservative after that. 

Trump, even if he only had 4 years, has upset the status quo so deeply that basically any Bush associated Republican won't ever get my vote again. I want outsiders from the Republican Party leadership. I kind of trust Ted Cruz, but not much further than I could throw him. 

I agree that Carlson and Ingrahm should move on - but I'm not sure where. Despite the fact that I think Tucker is better then Shapiro - I can't even watch Carlson right now. All it does is make me depressed. 

We have cut the cord - for a while. It is great. 


 



[#] Thu Nov 12 2020 08:42:34 EST from zooer

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Wed Nov 11 2020 11:41:43 AM EST from IGnatius T Foobar

They've never been kind to President Trump,
 
who has governed as the most genuinely conservative President in the last half century. 

 

But they were fair.  They were both critical and supporting. 

In your eyes, what makes Trump a conservative?  

 

Murdoch donates a lot to the Democrat party.  Rupert supported Hillary.  Fox has always been a wise business decision.  

 

Trump needs to let his ego and the election go.  The republicans need to concentrate on the 2022 election and win more seats in both the house and senate.



[#] Thu Nov 12 2020 08:43:27 EST from zooer

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They didn't sell FoxNews, Daddy retired and his sons took over.



[#] Thu Nov 12 2020 13:13:39 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Thu Nov 12 2020 08:43:27 EST from zooer

They didn't sell FoxNews, Daddy retired and his sons took over.



I particularly like where you try and sound reasonable and impartial in one post, and in the next you sound far more like a typical Democrat. 

Just an observation. I'm not really trying to get into it with you on if Fox treated Trump fairly or not. This seems largely a matter of subjective opinion that is going to absolutely be affected by partisan bias, on either side. I think Scott Adams would point out the danger in arguing this from either perspective if you are at ALL *partisan*... and I am. 

I guess I was thinking about Disney acquiring Fox - but that specifically exempted Fox News? Something like that... it was a while back... and I knew Rupert was no longer running the show, anyhow. 

I don't think Trump was really a conservative or a Republican. 

That was part of the beauty of him. He was a bull in a china shop. 

He was inconsistent on gun control. He was pro LGBT (which *should* be a conservative value), he seemed to be the most State Autonomous Rights of any President I can really remember policy on. He was pro deregulation on most business. He seemed pretty much economically conservative, socially fairly liberal... 

I actually think if he had run as a Libertarian, he never would have won, but the Libertarians would have *loved* him. He also didn't censor himself, and took on all challengers head first, without political diplomatic niceties. 

He was too honest for America. That was his number 1 problem. We love to lie to one another about things we all KNOW are true, but don't want to admit. Things like, "being a racist doesn't mean you're a terrible person, and being anti-racist doesn't make you a saint." 

There are racists who would put themselves at risk to help another person out and anti-racists who would watch you drown with a smile on their face. 

There ARE some fine people on both sides. There are also some real aholes on both sides. The narrative wants us to *believe* that EVERYONE on one side is *terrible* by default for being on that side, and everyone on the other side is morally superior for NOT being on the other side. In America, if we don't adopt that ideology and promote it, we're labeled on the wrong side - and punished. 

So, most of us smile and go along with the program. Most of us are NOT the one guy not doing the Hitler Salute. We've all got our arms fully extended in public so no one starts thinking maybe we should be cancelled. 






[#] Thu Nov 12 2020 13:22:27 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Thu Nov 12 2020 13:13:39 EST from ParanoidDelusions

 


There ARE some fine people on both sides. There are also some real aholes on both sides. The narrative wants us to *believe* that EVERYONE on one side is *terrible* by default for being on that side, and everyone on the other side is morally superior for NOT being on the other side. In America, if we don't adopt that ideology and promote it, we're labeled on the wrong side - and punished. 

 

Here is another thing we lie about. Saying this is true does not justify racism. I can think a person is *wrong* in their racist opinions - but otherwise have no problem with them and think they're a generally decent person. People are puzzling and inconsistent. I can forgive a lot of flaws. I even know a couple of Flat-Earthers who are otherwise decent people. Being stupid about one topic shouldn't get you labeled a pariah. But you can't win this argument in the court of public opinion. If you make this argument, you *are* a racist. 


And these judgements almost inevitably flow one way. 

If I claim that climate change isn't science, I am a science *denier*. 


But if you claim that gender is a spectrum and that there are hundreds of different genders and that gender is a social construct, and I call you a science denier - then I am a transphobe. 

Everything flows in the direction that if I don't go along with the lies that society all agrees we need to pretend are true, I'm the bad guy. 






 



[#] Thu Nov 12 2020 20:07:44 EST from zooer

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Thu Nov 12 2020 01:13:39 PM EST from ParanoidDelusions

 I particularly like where you try and sound reasonable and impartial in one post, and in the next you sound far more like a typical Democrat. 

 

 Heh, So called conservatives call me a liberal, liberals call me a right-wing extremest. But liberals call anyone to the right of Stalin a right-wing extremest.
N.P.A.  I hate conservatives, but I loath liberals.

 

Thu Nov 12 2020 01:13:39 PM EST from ParanoidDelusions

Just an observation. I'm not really trying to get into it with you on if Fox treated Trump fairly or not. This seems largely a matter of subjective opinion that is going to absolutely be affected by partisan bias, on either side. I think Scott Adams would point out the danger in arguing this from either perspective if you are at ALL *partisan*... and I am. 

I guess I was thinking about Disney acquiring Fox - but that specifically exempted Fox News? Something like that... it was a while back... and I knew Rupert was no longer running the show, anyhow. 

I didn't know Disney purchased Fox, or at least I don't remember hearing about it.

 

Thu Nov 12 2020 01:13:39 PM EST from ParanoidDelusions

I don't think Trump was really a conservative or a Republican... 
He was inconsistent on gun control. He was pro LGBT (which *should* be a conservative value), he seemed to be the most State Autonomous Rights of any President I can really remember policy on. He was pro deregulation on most business. He seemed pretty much economically conservative, socially fairly liberal... 

I actually think if he had run as a Libertarian, he never would have won, but the Libertarians would have *loved* him. He also didn't censor himself, and took on all challengers head first, without political diplomatic niceties. 

He was too honest for America. That was his number 1 problem.

Trump is whatever he needs to be at the present moment in order to get him ahead.  Trump is inconsistent on every issue, whatever needs to be said at the moment. He isn't the only politicians to behave this way. 

No, I don't believe the libertarians liked him, they knew he was full of shit.  

Trump's number one problem was that he had no filter.  Everyone needs a filter.



[#] Fri Nov 13 2020 08:45:30 EST from Ragnar Danneskjold

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That's his appeal. I want to know what he's thinking RIGHT NOW. Not some filtered, focus-group tested message that's bullshit.


[#] Fri Nov 13 2020 12:51:27 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Fri Nov 13 2020 08:45:30 EST from Ragnar Danneskjold
That's his appeal. I want to know what he's thinking RIGHT NOW. Not some filtered, focus-group tested message that's bullshit.

Yup. I had a post ready yesterday that said about the same thing. 

We've spent the last 40 years complaining about politicians being to POLITICAL. They say things that are vague, let us interpret those things the way WE want to hear them, then when we come back and say, "You said you were going to do this, but you did the exact OPPOSITE," they go, "Let's look at the video replay, that isn't what I ACTUALLY said... I said..." 

I saw Biden do this in the debates. I can't remember what it was that he said, what the question was or the response... 

But basically, I knew everyone was *hearing* him say... "This" when what he was really saying was, "That". 

Trump doesn't do that. He says what he intends to say, without a filter. And it turns out, the public seems to prefer to be lied to by sleazy politicians who carefully choose their words so that they mean the exact OPPOSITE of what people hear.  

But, a little filter before the election probably wouldn't have hurt him. 


As for "Liberals think I'm conservative, Conservatives think I am liberal..." 

I get that sometimes - by people far to one extreme or the other. But I think a lot of people who feel this way, don't actually step out of the box to look at what they're saying and go, "If I sound like a duck, and walk like a duck, it is no surprise that people think I *am* a duck." 

So maybe it isn't the other people... maybe it is you? 

 



[#] Fri Nov 13 2020 12:52:48 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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As for Fox... see... this is MAJOR, and we collectively have amnesia about it - and we're the kind of people *paying attention*. 



[#] Fri Nov 13 2020 12:57:04 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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I mean, you hear a lot about how there are just a few companies who own *everything*. 

There didn't used to be a Mondelez that owned ALL the US food companies... but basically, Kraft and everything else are owned by them, it seems. 

And they're like a partnership in New Jersey - and I feel like they're a European corporation. But they're probably a European front for a Chinese corporation that is ACTUALLY a front for the Government of China. 

And at this point, I really feel the same way about Disney. I don't think "we" own Disney anymore. I think Disney is a subsidiary corporation of some umbrella corporation that is actually just the Chinese Government. 



[#] Fri Nov 13 2020 13:00:05 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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I think Trump hurt himself with the kind of old school, Lincoln driving, traditional values Republican old men who respected guys like McCain. Traditional WASPy type old people who would still have supper and watch Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom and Wonderful World of Disney on Sunday nights and go to church potlucks. 

I think that is reflected in how he struggled in Arizona. I think part of his problem was that those folks either didn't vote, or swung for Biden. 



[#] Fri Nov 13 2020 16:42:09 EST from zooer

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Fri Nov 13 2020 12:52:48 PM EST from ParanoidDelusions

As for Fox... see... this is MAJOR, and we collectively have amnesia about it - and we're the kind of people *paying attention*. 



 Ahhhhh, now I understand your confusion. Fox News and Fox Entertainment are two different companies.

Fox News is owned by Fox News Media, which itself is owned by the Fox Corporation.  (Murdoch and sons)



[#] Fri Nov 13 2020 17:43:22 EST from zooer

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Fri Nov 13 2020 12:51:27 PM EST from ParanoidDelusions

 I get that sometimes - by people far to one extreme or the other. But I think a lot of people who feel this way, don't actually step out of the box to look at what they're saying and go, "If I sound like a duck, and walk like a duck, it is no surprise that people think I *am* a duck." 

So maybe it isn't the other people... maybe it is you?  

If you want to think I am a liberal, okay, I really don't care.



[#] Fri Nov 13 2020 18:06:53 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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2020-11-13 08:45 from Ragnar Danneskjold
That's his appeal. I want to know what he's thinking RIGHT NOW. Not

some filtered, focus-group tested message that's bullshit.

That was the very first thing I liked about him --- in that sense he reminded me of you :)

[#] Fri Nov 13 2020 18:18:56 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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I don't think Trump was really a conservative or a Republican. 

He governed as a true conservative. He lowered taxes, busted up regulations, straightened out international trade, and returned individual liberties.

The left spent eight years complaining about George W Bush. Along comes Trump, who is NOTHING like Bush, and they complain even louder. This is because they are hypocrites, of course. The Organized Left's real objection to Trump has never been that he is a conservative -- though they will say it is. It's never been that he is a racist -- he isn't anyway, but they will say it is.
It isn't even about his abrasive personality -- though they will say it is.

In the end, the ONLY reason the left (including the Bush Republican Left) went so apoplectic over President Trump is because he is not part of the insider elite. He isn't "one of them". When Romney wasn't busy raping corporations, he acted like a democrat. When McCain wasn't busy murdering soldiers aboard the USS Forrestal, he acted like a democrat. When Bush wasn't busy with oil fields, he acted like a democrat. They all did.
The left gave lip service to opposing those people but in the end they were controlled opposition, just like Faux News. Trump was the first one to come along who not only wasn't part of that insider club, but had the mettle to actually WIN. That, above all else, made him an existential threat to the establishment, and is the reason they used their cable channels and social networks and universities to coordinate a 24/7/365 tantrum against him.

As Mr. Trump himself said: "They're not actually going after me. They're going after you. I'm just in the way."

True libertarians (including Mr. Trump) are trustworthy. Everyone else (including the Libertarian Party) is lying.

[#] Fri Nov 13 2020 21:36:16 EST from zooer

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Fri Nov 13 2020 06:18:56 PM EST from IGnatius T Foobar
He governed as a true conservative. He lowered taxes, busted up regulations, straightened out international trade, and returned individual liberties.

True libertarians (including Mr. Trump) are trustworthy. Everyone else (including the Libertarian Party) is lying.

 

Is he conservative or libertarian?   

I haven't seen anything about him that makes me think he is trustworthy.

 

The republicans need to get their shit together focusing on 2022 and getting full control of congress.  Getting control of the house and senate is an achievable goal. 



[#] Sat Nov 14 2020 09:01:48 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Fri Nov 13 2020 17:43:22 EST from zooer

 

Fri Nov 13 2020 12:51:27 PM EST from ParanoidDelusions

 I get that sometimes - by people far to one extreme or the other. But I think a lot of people who feel this way, don't actually step out of the box to look at what they're saying and go, "If I sound like a duck, and walk like a duck, it is no surprise that people think I *am* a duck." 

So maybe it isn't the other people... maybe it is you?  

If you want to think I am a liberal, okay, I really don't care.



I didn't say you were a liberal. I said if people constantly mistake you for a liberal, maybe it isn't the other people who are the problem. That is different. 

Obviously you're not a liberal, because you haven't called me a fascist or resorted to other ad hominem attack, and we've been mildly disagreeing for several posts now. 

;) 

 



[#] Sat Nov 14 2020 09:16:47 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Fri Nov 13 2020 21:36:16 EST from zooer

 

Fri Nov 13 2020 06:18:56 PM EST from IGnatius T Foobar
He governed as a true conservative. He lowered taxes, busted up regulations, straightened out international trade, and returned individual liberties.

True libertarians (including Mr. Trump) are trustworthy. Everyone else (including the Libertarian Party) is lying.

 

Is he conservative or libertarian?   

I haven't seen anything about him that makes me think he is trustworthy.

 

The republicans need to get their shit together focusing on 2022 and getting full control of congress.  Getting control of the house and senate is an achievable goal. 



I think different people have a different understanding of what "conservative" means. 

In particular, some people think that conservative economic policy will always be to vote down public funding or increased funding for ANYTHING. 

But, the conservative may realize that the prudent long term stability requires something like, for example - ensuring that the least earning get a bigger share of wages. This is more a factor of keeping them content and avoiding replays of the French revolution - it isn't driven by *feelings* - it is driven by making the smartest investments for ongoing social stability that leads to positive economic and market conditions. 

A lot of CONSERVATIVES don't understand this. They have a knee-jerk, "Let them eat cake," response to any situation that says that the market should interfere with wage disparity. 

The conservative choice is the one that guarantees an improving economic forecast, and it isn't ALWAYS the obvious choice. 

Gay marriage may have been a GOOD thing for the economy. Refusing to service a same-sex couple who wants a cake isn't a *conservative* business decision - it is a conservative social decision. 

If I were a conservative baker and there was a huge controversy in town because a Christian baker refused a same sex couple, I'd open next to them, and offer a *selection* of Bert and Ernie cakes at a significant discount - in particular if I thought it would ATTRACT more business than it would drive away. 

Because profits from LGBT couples spend just as well as profits from straight couples. 

A conservative generally believes that the GOVERNMENT should be staying out of that. Let the Christian Baker alienate gay couples, and let some other baker see that as a market opportunity. 

Trump generally seems to operate on this principle. 




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