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[#] Fri Jul 26 2019 16:14:25 EDT from zooer

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I am more worried that "they" will force us to use public transportation for everything.
Tesla was trying to develop a battery changing station, where you don't have to wait for an electric car to recharge you replace the battery when you need a recharge.   



[#] Fri Jul 26 2019 21:37:32 EDT from Ragnar Danneskjold

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I have zero desire for an electric car or hybrid. Battery technology sucks.
Batteries die for no reason. I've got electronics that are garbage because of their non-replacable batteries.

No thanks.

[#] Sat Jul 27 2019 11:12:12 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Well that's the issue, isn't it. I think the future of transportation *is* electric, particularly after we get to the point where we accept the reality that nuclear energy is the only hydrocarbon-free electricity source that is both sustainable *and* scalable. But the other reality is that the battery technology isn't quite there yet. I expect to own an electric car for basic transportation someday, but I'll probably still keep my 2015 pickup truck that gets 20 MPG for when I need it.

What is "MPGe" and how is it calculated? Do they actually not count mileage that was achieved from a plug-in charge? That seems *very* disingenuous, especially if the fuel efficiency targets are ostensibly intended to minimize emissions, in a world where the plug-in charge probably came from hydrocarbon fuel anyway.

[#] Mon Jul 29 2019 12:45:03 EDT from LoanShark

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Tesla was trying to develop a battery changing station, where you
don't have to wait for an electric car to recharge you replace the
battery when you need a recharge.   

If they did, I think they abandoned the concept early on. The batteries are huge, and built into the floor of the chassis. They have their own cooling system built still have an unfortunate tendency that, once they catch fire, they're rather hard to put out. So I don't think the batteries are going to be removable any time soon.

[#] Mon Jul 29 2019 12:46:41 EDT from LoanShark

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I don't know how MPGe is calculated. I do know that that vehicle gets 30mpg, combined, if you never plug it in, and 71 MPGe's, whatever those are, if you plug it in.

[#] Mon Jul 29 2019 12:58:15 EDT from zooer

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Mon Jul 29 2019 12:45:03 PM EDT from LoanShark
Tesla was trying to develop a battery changing station
If they did, I think they abandoned the concept early on. 

 

Yes they did abandon it, you can watch the prototype video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5V0vL3nnHY

 



[#] Wed Jul 31 2019 09:41:32 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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I don't know how MPGe is calculated. I do know that that vehicle gets

30mpg, combined, if you never plug it in, and 71 MPGe's, whatever those

are, if you plug it in.

Seems disingenuous to me, but my brain is wired for engineering. I'm still annoyed that light bulbs are still sold according to their "equivalent incandescent wattage". Learn what lumens are, people!

[#] Wed Jul 31 2019 18:44:04 EDT from LoanShark

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Seems legit; looks like MPGe is a pretty basic conversion to kwh/mi based on the typical thermal energy in a gallon of gas. Not sure if the assumption is exactly the standard value for gasoline, but it's close, if it's a little off it seems slightly biased towards *gas*

It's wall-socket-to-miles and doesn't account for upstream effects. I also found this: https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/ev-emissions-tool

[#] Fri Aug 02 2019 13:12:39 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Hmm. Still seems like it would make more sense to measure efficiency in terms of miles per KWh of charging. MPGe seems more concerned with emissions, which is impossible to calculate if you don't know how the electricity was generated.
And of course that only satisfies people who care more about emissions than about the TCO of the vehicle.

Honestly, I *do* expect to own an electric vehicle someday. I just hate the idea of being railroaded into it before the technology is truly ready.
Work being done on supercapacitor substrates looks way more promising than the current practice of filling the car up with Lithium batteries.

[#] Fri Aug 02 2019 15:23:16 EDT from LoanShark

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Work being done on supercapacitor substrates looks way more promising

than the current practice of filling the car up with Lithium batteries.


That's nadia at work

[#] Fri Aug 02 2019 16:11:37 EDT from zooer

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Why the Future of Cars is Electric, Veritasium

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GATuMWAFBUA



[#] Sun Aug 04 2019 23:08:59 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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The video has all of the right answers and the usual wrong answers. The batteries *are* better than they used to be, and still getting better. So why bother forcing the issue? If electrics are really that much better, they'll take over on their own. I'm looking forward to it. Technology innovation at work.

They really should have left the self-driving thing out of it, though. I am skeptical that self-driving cars will take over.

Then they got into "climate change". That's something I'm *not* skeptical about; I am on the side of science, reality, and common sense, and am 100.000% convinced that the CO2 generated by burning hydrocarbons is NOT causing a runaway greenhouse effect.

Right now, it feels like one would want both kinds of cars. That's not practical for most people, but I could easily see a transitional era where many households have one gas and one electric, and if someone is going on a long trip they take the gas powered car. Right now I'm thinking I'll keep my 20 MPG pickup truck for the "real work" long after I've started driving a zippy little electric around town.

And I'm still wondering why they aren't putting solar panels on the roofs.

[#] Mon Aug 05 2019 09:50:04 EDT from zooer

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Autonomous driving vehicles would work if EVERY vehicle was autonomous and communicating with the other vehicles.  We could be transported at much higher speeds if the infrastructure was in place.

I enjoy driving, I am looking forward to autonomous vehicles.  

 

My neighbor has solar panels on his roof, they are difficult to see during the winter months but they are there.  I have seen many solar farms driving around.



[#] Mon Aug 05 2019 13:09:35 EDT from wizard of aahz

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IG - Are you saying that you wonder why they aren't putting solar panels on the roof of cars or the roof of buildings?

[#] Mon Aug 05 2019 13:20:50 EDT from zooer

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McDonald's new paper straws 'can't be recycled - but the old plastic ones can'

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mcdonalds-new-paper-straws-cant-18829881

 

I remember paper straws, I remember wax coated paper straws.



[#] Mon Aug 05 2019 13:22:42 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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IG - Are you saying that you wonder why they aren't putting solar
panels on the roof of cars or the roof of buildings?

Cars. So what if the surface area is small? Many vehicles will spend more time sitting parked outside than being driven.

[#] Mon Aug 05 2019 15:33:25 EDT from wizard of aahz

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Solar paneled cars have been a thing for 30 years.

http://internal.clarkson.edu/news/1998/news-release_1998-10-21-5.html

[#] Tue Aug 06 2019 14:53:10 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Even if the solar panels don't provide enough energy for sustained daytime driving, they will still charge the batteries at a rate substantially higher than zero. That's the point -- owners of vehicles with short commutes and outdoor parking won't need to get a plug-in charge very often, and everyone else saves money because they only have to plug in to make up the difference.

[#] Thu Aug 08 2019 21:32:00 EDT from darknetuser

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Electric vehicles will become a day-to-day reality someday. But this day is not today nor tomorrow.

 

Electric cars are fed by power generated by a mix of renewable sources and fossile fuels. In some nations it is more ecological to use electric cars because they renewable to "bad" fuels is good. For a lot of other nations, it is not. I think a whole lot of the push for electric cars we are seeing is due to political lobbying than actual advantages of the tech. I mean, if the tech was already there, everybody would already be buying it.

 

And yes, I have already been outpriced and forced into collective transport for many of my trips. Which is NOT a bad thing. I save money and I burn less fuel on the trip. Also, parking (having a garage or parking spot) is getting crazy expensive around here so my car does not see many trips.



[#] Fri Aug 09 2019 15:49:46 EDT from LoanShark

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You see Tesla's every day around here. Great city car apparently. Horrible for my lifestyle which includs a 8-10 hours on the interstate every winter weekend.

An interesting question is whether the developing world can afford this stuff. Probably not; I spent a month in India and much of my travel was by motorbike or autorickshaw. The latter are all powered by two-stroke motors that belch oil smoke constantly. If nobody can afford a cleaner-burning gasoline engine, nobody can afford lithium-ion.

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