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[#] Mon Oct 24 2011 12:24:54 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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elm, and pine your blissful e-mail.

Retro-computing!

[#] Mon Oct 24 2011 15:51:56 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Thanks dothebart but I was looking for reasons to *stay* with Ubuntu not to *leave* it. As far as I know, it's a pain in the ass to install things like non-free codecs and drivers on Debian, while on Ubuntu you click a couple of option boxes and it says "This may be illegal in your country, so it's up to you to check that out, m'kay? Nudge nudge wink wink say no more?"

That's the kind of thing I'm looking to find out if there's any more of.

[#] Mon Oct 24 2011 17:35:17 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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deb http://debian.netcologne.de/debian wheezy main
deb http://debian.netcologne.de/debian wheezy non-free contrib
deb-src http://debian.netcologne.de/debian sid main contrib non-free
deb http://debian.netcologne.de/debian experimental main
#deb http://mozilla.debian.net/ squeeze-backports iceweasel-aurora

all codecs installed which are needed.

no big deal.

want xfce?

apt-get install xfce

done.

want bleeding edge? install wheezy (testing) which is what ubuntu also aggregates from.

want real bleeding edge? install sid (which may break now and then.)

other than being a n00b or wanting to helb n00bs there is no good reason to use ubuntu.



[#] Mon Oct 24 2011 19:31:36 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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Just make a step sideways and try Linux Mint (ubuntu based, dunno which desktop, but even more targeted at having more sophistication and ease with preinstalled codecs and whatnot) or Bodhi Linux http://www.bodhilinux.com/about.php (more minimal approach, as it seems and enlightenment 17 as desktop). Or any other ubuntu clone. As a debian hater, I'd say you try Suse or Gentoo :-)



[#] Tue Oct 25 2011 10:40:09 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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I'm not a Debian hater; I'm just trying to be practical. At this time I would like to abandon Ubuntu if it is practical. I'm not going to move to a fringe distro. Debian would be great *if* it can do all of the things I need it to do.

How about Flash? I want Flash, and Google Chrome.

[#] Tue Oct 25 2011 10:41:41 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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The package called "flashplugin-nonfree" is a Debian package that Ubuntu just pulled in? What the f**k is Ubuntu actually adding other than their uglydesktop crap?

[#] Wed Oct 26 2011 08:23:45 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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thats what all those angry ubuntu/debian diskussions are about anyways.

Ubuntu primarily pulls stuff more frequent from the debian testing tree, and calls it "stable"



[#] Wed Oct 26 2011 09:08:36 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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I'd guess their installer is better or at least looks better. There must be a reason why noobs switched to ubuntu by the dozens. Installer is important for those windows users who see reinstallation as a proper way of problem solving and do so every few month. Also, synaptic makes it easy for ex-windows users to get a working system. 



[#] Wed Oct 26 2011 09:49:45 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Well, I think one of the reasons Ubuntu picked up so many n00bs so quickly is because for the first few years, they'd send free CD's to anyone who wanted them.

I do remember at the time that Ubuntu's desktop was just so much better looking than anything else out there. Nowadays I'm not seeing much of a difference.

[#] Wed Oct 26 2011 10:45:22 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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Wed Oct 26 2011 09:49:45 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
Well, I think one of the reasons Ubuntu picked up so many n00bs so quickly is because for the first few years, they'd send free CD's to anyone who wanted them.

I do remember at the time that Ubuntu's desktop was just so much better looking than anything else out there. Nowadays I'm not seeing much of a difference.

you probably didn't compare it to SuSE or Mandriva...



[#] Wed Oct 26 2011 16:34:00 EDT from athos-mn @ Uncensored

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Does anyone use Slackware anymore? That's what I started on (well, after SCO OpenServer); was great for learning the guts of the system.



[#] Wed Oct 26 2011 18:14:44 EDT from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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I fear I will burn in eternal slacklessness...

I always wanted to try it, since SuSE seems to be derived from it. But than again, it seems to involve too much compiling on your own and I can already do that in gentoo and more elegant, as it sounds to me. But I might try it just to praise the man with the pipe. 



[#] Thu Oct 27 2011 08:00:37 EDT from Stefan @ Uncensored

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I thought that Ubuntu's advantage is its user community. It should be quite easy for a beginner to find help by browsing a little bit through the www.

I tried Ubuntu 11.10 here at work. Unity was quite OK, but too slow (maybe it was a broken RAM module and not unity). I'm running fedora with fluxbox now. I would have preferred gnome3 but it doesn't support my graphic card.



[#] Thu Oct 27 2011 12:57:16 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Ok, so I'm converting my primary development machine to Debian. Let's see how this experiment goes. If I like what I see then I may begin switching my desktops eventually.

I also happen to be in the market for a new server Linux, since we're not happy with CentOS 6 here.

[#] Thu Oct 27 2011 14:07:52 EDT from Ford II @ Uncensored

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If what you really want is ubuntu with the other x desktop why not just install the x desktop. Save yourself all the reinstallation grief. debian doesn't buy you anything else, what's th epoint.

But more interestingly: what's wrong with centos? Is redhat going down the wrong path of some kind?

And my big question of the day: all those ubergeeks who are working on the up and coming versions of whatever distro they're working on... what do they actually RUN on their development machines while they're doing their development. Seems to me that would be a good question to know the answer too.
If a alpha of a distro is just plain broken, they're not going to be using it wHILE they're fixing it, so what ARE they using?

[#] Thu Oct 27 2011 16:29:39 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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well, I don't run SID on my netbook just for the shake of the many disk operations (flash you know...)

before, I did that.

my home desktop (which I access mostly via ssh..) still runs SID.

my worst scenarios were X not starting, which was fixeable by rtfm & nagging others on IRC.

my $work workstation usualy runs debian stable for half a year or so until the next testing is more stable again (theres a little rush after the freeze, you know? ;-)

my last upgrade to testing failed due to disk space, and I needed to boot it with grml since I fucked up my libc. took me some extra hours in the office that day.

The upcomming 8.10 citadel release requires bleeding edge libev; which i3wm.org (which I sometimes compile from git...) also uses.

Had a fukup with that too, required me to recompile & install my windowmanager from the commandline, roughly an hour or two without X.

 

You know, all these fuckups might be challanging to fix, be a bit anoying, but I prefer that over having to turn my carpet into direction Me aeh Redmond, fall down on my knees to get my box back up & running once it fails.



[#] Thu Oct 27 2011 16:30:26 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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Thu Oct 27 2011 12:57:16 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
Ok, so I'm converting my primary development machine to Debian. Let's see how this experiment goes. If I like what I see then I may begin switching my desktops eventually.

I also happen to be in the market for a new server Linux, since we're not happy with CentOS 6 here.

run

dpkg-buildpackage

to get a list of all missing software to compile citadel.



[#] Thu Oct 27 2011 16:37:50 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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If what you really want is ubuntu with the other x desktop why not just install the x desktop. Save yourself all the reinstallation grief. debian doesn't buy you anything else, what's th epoint.

Quite true, and that is in fact what I have already done.  At the moment I am evaluating strategies for new installs.

 

But more interestingly: what's wrong with centos? Is redhat going down the wrong path of some kind?

In the couple of weeks that we've had CentOS 6, we have had a number of machines just completely blow themselves up.  Their implementation of ext4 is, for some reason, unstable under certain types of storage.  The same storage works fine with ext3 or with a non-CentOS distribution.

Add to that the fact that Red Hat has added even more unwanted crap to the "minimal" install that we have to turn off for every build.  Bloody acres of enterprise-ey daemons and services that are irrelevant in a service provider environment.  Debian doesn't give you anything you don't ask for, which for a service provider is awesome because there are no listening ports open by default, no extra services consuming memory and disk, etc.


And my big question of the day: all those ubergeeks who are working on the up and coming versions of whatever distro they're working on... what do they actually RUN on their development machines while they're doing their development. Seems to me that would be a good question to know the answer too.
If a alpha of a distro is just plain broken, they're not going to be using it wHILE they're fixing it, so what ARE they using?

They use Windows, silly.



[#] Thu Oct 27 2011 21:38:26 EDT from Sig @ Uncensored

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I went from Ubuntu to Linux Mint Debian Edition for my netbook. I still need a Windows partition for work, but day-to-day I stay in LMDE. I've been pretty happy with it for... I dunno, 6-8 months?

[#] Sun Oct 30 2011 04:41:02 EDT from TheOneLaw @ Uncensored

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Thu Oct 27 2011 21:38:26 EDT from Sig @ Uncensored
I went from Ubuntu to Linux Mint Debian Edition for my netbook. I still need a Windows partition for work, but day-to-day I stay in LMDE. I've been pretty happy with it for... I dunno, 6-8 months?

After 8 years of Mandriva now moving to LMDE also - I hope this turns out as well as it looks.

Although hyped as a rolling release, LMDE is (fortunately) not quite that suicidal but close enough to the bleeding edge

 to not be waiting forever for new packages.

our first test install has definitely been rock solid,

My next task is to build it into being a Proxmox VM so I can use it in a USB3 key on whichever of my different computers I happen

 to be around at the moment ( I have one at home, one in the office, one in the field, one at the labs and it seems logical

 just to carry one image around and use that instead of trying to keep each individual machine mirrored)

-- 
TheOneLaw



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