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[#] Sun Dec 27 2020 18:37:55 EST from darknetuser

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2020-12-23 22:59 from ParanoidDelusions
I just assumed that Linux was still behind the curve on automounting
and would require me to relearn assigning a mount point to any device
I plugged in, and would struggle with anything not a native *nix OS
filesystem, still.

You made me sad with that paragraph.

[#] Sun Dec 27 2020 18:42:52 EST from darknetuser

Subject: Re: 5FE4123C-0046BF01@uncensored.citadel.org

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2020-12-25 00:36 from ParanoidDelusions
Subject: Re: 5FE4123C-0046BF01@uncensored.citadel.org
I think "years" is an exaggeration. 

As recently as when I was trying to get Citadel running on the Pi -

Linux was still hit and miss about auto-mounting external storage,

and storage with non-native file systems - if we're being
*generous*. 

You had to *account* for it - and it wasn't something you could just

click a "Yeah, I want this," at install. 

"Years" is not an eaggeration.

There was mass storage automounting around 2008 that I know of. Probably earlier. That is more than a decade. At the very least.

Even OpenBSD can be coherced into automounting nowadays. Most people does not afaik.

[#] Sun Dec 27 2020 19:10:53 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Well, Linux had a BIG win with me this week. I had a file, no idea what the file name was, no idea where it was stored. Downloaded off the Web about a decade ago, I'd guess, onto a FreeNAS that was probably all of 200gb - maybe more like 70 or 80. That grew into a PowerEdge NAS with more storage... and then got backed up to an external backup drive, then got moved onto a WHS that maybe had 500gb. At each point, things like phone upgrades were getting an entire MicroSD dumped as a file directory onto the NAS, new folders and shares were made for features from each different NAS until I found myself with about 12TB on my current Synology NAS with another 11TB external drive, plus all the other external drives and SD and CF and Thumbdrive and other mass storage devices I've collected along the way. 

And I could not find the file. 

But... grep -iRl did it for me. Took most of the weekend, but it found it. 

I know there are ways to do this with Windows boxes - but I didn't really trust it - and I didn't do it on a Mac because asking a Mac to work that hard for that long is like trying to plow a field with a quarter-horse. 

But my Optiplex 3020 just chugged along with Debian until it found not just the file I wanted, but another that was part of the bundle that I didn't even know I had. 

History of Citadel kind of stuff that was on the web 20 years ago, but even the Wayback machine can't find today - and none of my other Citadel friends and associates had any copies of it. 

I've since made multiple copies in multiple places. 

 

Sun Dec 27 2020 18:37:55 EST from darknetuser
2020-12-23 22:59 from ParanoidDelusions
I just assumed that Linux was still behind the curve on automounting
and would require me to relearn assigning a mount point to any device
I plugged in, and would struggle with anything not a native *nix OS
filesystem, still.

You made me sad with that paragraph.

 



[#] Mon Dec 28 2020 18:24:26 EST from Nurb432

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We also have one app ( deployed to about 40k desktops ) that uses the IE web-installer thingie where it installs an executable from the web.. even without admin rights...  That was done in-house however and not via a vendor, and it needs to go.

 

 

Sun Dec 27 2020 16:02:06 EST from IGnatius T Foobar
Ooooh, I forgot all about OCX embeds in Internet Explorer. A lot of us said at the time, those aren't web applications, they're Windows applications running inside a browser. Who knows, we might still be stuck in that kind of hell if the desktop computer was still the primary way people used the web. Apple deserves some of the credit for that.

 



[#] Mon Dec 28 2020 18:37:22 EST from Nurb432

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I have always cataloged my stuff.  That way i could search for something even before i dug out whatever media it was on.  "this file is on DVD xyz, in box 42"

Some of my stuff started as a Atari formatted 3.5" disks and IBM 5.25" disks from the late 80s, then tapes, cds, DVD...  eventually it all ended up on a 8TB USB drive with a mirror of that, as i'm paranoid.

 

Went thru things last weekend finally, killed off 2TB of dups and stuff i honestly will never care about again ( like C64 software.. )

Sun Dec 27 2020 19:10:53 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Well, Linux had a BIG win with me this week. I had a file, no idea what the file name was, no idea where it was stored. Downloaded off the Web about a decade ago, I'd guess, onto a FreeNAS that was probably all of 200gb - maybe more like 70 or 80. That grew into a PowerEdge NAS with more storage... and then got backed up to an external backup drive, then got moved onto a WHS that maybe had 500gb. At each point, things like phone upgrades were getting an entire MicroSD dumped as a file directory onto the NAS, new folders and shares were made for features from each different NAS until I found myself with about 12TB on my current Synology NAS with another 11TB external drive, plus all the other external drives and SD and CF and Thumbdrive and other mass storage devices I've collected along the way. 

*snip*

 



 



[#] Mon Dec 28 2020 23:30:41 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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You saw my approach to transitioning my Citadel from Pi to Debian on Intel, right? 

That mosh-pit of doing so many different things that by the time I figure it out, I don't know exactly what I did to get there... 

Is pretty typical of my general approach to life. It works for me - it makes other people observing it have anxiety attacks.

I can be organized, and when it is required professionally, I'm really good at it. Every now and then I do it personally, for a while, but it inevitably always devolved into anarchy and chaos on a personal level. Entropy works quickly in my personal organization. 

 

Mon Dec 28 2020 18:37:22 EST from Nurb432

I have always cataloged my stuff.  

 

 



 



[#] Tue Dec 29 2020 12:44:43 EST from Nurb432

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Im one of those weirdos who used the Dewey decimal system for my bookcases..  and label all boxes, with a list of contents.. And collar shirts only go in their correct drawer, while T-shirts have another...   Tool box A contains common tools for the little car, while box B has jeep tools.. And box C is reserved for air tools.. etc etc.

 

its not so much now as i have gotten older, but i do have a 'general order' inside the chaos.

Mon Dec 28 2020 23:30:41 EST from ParanoidDelusions

You saw my approach to transitioning my Citadel from Pi to Debian on Intel, right? 

That mosh-pit of doing so many different things that by the time I figure it out, I don't know exactly what I did to get there... 

Is pretty typical of my general approach to life. It works for me - it makes other people observing it have anxiety attacks.

I can be organized, and when it is required professionally, I'm really good at it. Every now and then I do it personally, for a while, but it inevitably always devolved into anarchy and chaos on a personal level. Entropy works quickly in my personal organization. 

 

Mon Dec 28 2020 18:37:22 EST from Nurb432

I have always cataloged my stuff.  

 

 



 



 



[#] Tue Dec 29 2020 14:08:34 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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I always make a valiant effort - but eventually, there are home appliance manuals in the file folder that was supposed to just be "personal electronics" manuals, and there are phone accessories in the box that was supposed to be just USB accessories, and USB accessories in the box that was supposed to just be phone accessories, etc. 


Tue Dec 29 2020 12:44:43 EST from Nurb432

Im one of those weirdos who used the Dewey decimal system for my bookcases..  and label all boxes, 

 

 



 



 



[#] Fri Jan 01 2021 12:58:36 EST from Nurb432

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Any more i toss manuals and get PDFs.. damned paper is ins such small font you cant read the damned things. ( age side.. while a factor, they are smaller too )

Tue Dec 29 2020 14:08:34 EST from ParanoidDelusions

I always make a valiant effort - but eventually, there are home appliance manuals in the file folder that was supposed to just be "personal electronics" manuals, and there are phone accessories in the box that was supposed to be just USB accessories, and USB accessories in the box that was supposed to just be phone accessories, etc. 


Tue Dec 29 2020 12:44:43 EST from Nurb432

Im one of those weirdos who used the Dewey decimal system for my bookcases..  and label all boxes, 

 

 



 



 



 



[#] Fri Jan 01 2021 13:36:07 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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I have always cataloged my stuff.  That way i could search for
something even before i dug out whatever media it was on.  "this
file is on DVD xyz, in box 42"

You need a mainframe! DFHSM does that built-in to the system. Your file remains in the system catalog, and when a program tries to access it, the program blocks, and an operator (or an automated library) is instructed to mount the tape. The file is loaded back from tape to its original location, and the program unblocks.

[#] Fri Jan 01 2021 13:54:40 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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I print out PDFs. Digital documents don't work well for me.

Fri Jan 01 2021 12:58:36 EST from Nurb432

Any more i toss manuals and get PDFs.. damned paper is ins such small font you cant read the damned things. ( age side.. while a factor, they are smaller too )

Tue Dec 29 2020 14:08:34 EST from ParanoidDelusions


[#] Fri Jan 01 2021 15:49:32 EST from Nurb432

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Until i started using e-ink, it was questionable. But i totally love e-ink..   CRTs were painful. LCD tablets, used them due to the convenience factor, but it was not 'nice' to read on it. I remember when amazon came out with the first kindle and was thinking " just a new way of marketing LCD, yawn" Wife wanted one, so i got it.  few months later i happened to take a peek at what i just blew nearly 500 bucks on, and realized it was no marketing scam. it was really something different.  

After a bit of research, i discovered that ironically back in the 80s i was trying to make what we now call e-ink. Just didnt have a name, and i didnt have the funding to pull it off beyond making sploches of shapes on glass using HV coils, iron powder, and the conductive glass from torn apart surplus LCD calculator displays.  ( not practical by any means, but it was similar in principle to what e-ink is today )

Few years ago i pretty much purged my dead tree library.. thousands of books/magazines... replaced them all with digital versions.  Only thing i kept was art books, and ones that had special meaning. but 'content', it was all out the door to a yard sale, and then what was left, donated.

Speaking ink, i just picked up another large format ( 10.x" ) ink last week. And yes, i did get in on the first round of color models. While cool, its not yet really ready for prime time, but in a generation or 2, it should be.

Now we also have the term 'e-paper' which was just reflective LCD ( think old style LCD watches ), but some companies are now calling e-ink displays e-paper, due to trademarks.. Makes it all a confusing mess.

 

Fri Jan 01 2021 13:54:40 EST from ParanoidDelusions

I print out PDFs. Digital documents don't work well for me.

Fri Jan 01 2021 12:58:36 EST from Nurb432

Any more i toss manuals and get PDFs.. damned paper is ins such small font you cant read the damned things. ( age side.. while a factor, they are smaller too )

Tue Dec 29 2020 14:08:34 EST from ParanoidDelusions


 



[#] Fri Jan 01 2021 16:50:05 EST from Nurb432

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Back when i worked at Delco in the late 80s ( via EDS ) we had a tape robot. No operator needed.  Was actually pretty cool. Not OSHA approved tho.. Get too close to the track you might be smacked in the head with a tape.

 

At Ford, years later, we had a parts storage building that was robot controlled . Also really cool stuff, ahead of its time. 

Fri Jan 01 2021 13:36:07 EST from IGnatius T Foobar
I have always cataloged my stuff.  That way i could search for
something even before i dug out whatever media it was on.  "this
file is on DVD xyz, in box 42"

You need a mainframe! DFHSM does that built-in to the system. Your file remains in the system catalog, and when a program tries to access it, the program blocks, and an operator (or an automated library) is instructed to mount the tape. The file is loaded back from tape to its original location, and the program unblocks.

 



[#] Sat Jan 02 2021 13:47:36 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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I've actually got one of the original full size Kindles with an integrated keyboard and lifetime free 3G wireless. 

I don't know if that actually still works. 

e-Ink readers work for me for leisure reading, generally speaking - and offer a lot of advantages. For technical reading - where I'm flipping back a few pages to review, flipping forward again, going back a chapter here or there... I find e-Ink inferior, with all its markup and bookmarking tools. Analog is just superior. Also, I can have a few different references open and spread out at one time. I've got multiple kindles at this point, but it isn't the same. 

And that is all before I raise objections about the model of digital content licensing. 

This was an early article on the subject - as I was coming to the conclusion that digital content actually robs residual resale value from consumers - ensuring that there is *no* secondary market for used CDs and books. 

https://www.techrepublic.com/blog/techrepublic-out-loud/typo-in-e-book-proves-that-digital-content-is-virtually-worthless/



Digital data is the devil.

 

Fri Jan 01 2021 15:49:32 EST from Nurb432

Until i started using e-ink, it was questionable. But i totally love e-ink..  

 



[#] Sat Jan 02 2021 13:49:52 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Tellingly, there has become no real good, standard way to engage in a fee-less secondary transfer of digital licensing rights from one private party to a second with no intermediary.

It could be done. The people who control the digital content don't want to do that. They want their cut of every transaction we make, and ideally, would rather we make all transactions directly with them. 






[#] Sat Jan 02 2021 14:31:16 EST from Nurb432

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The readers i use for 'techbooks', while i agree you cant flip around easy, do allow writing 'on' the pages where you are at. Mine also do 'raw' note taking, which isn't tied to any particular file. For novels, i have never cared about taking notes.

DRM? What is that? Never heard of it!  Kidding aside, i do agree that DRM is evil and hurts everyone, even content providers. As far as 'digital ownership with no intermediary', it would be trivial to add block-chain tech to 'digital media' and provide that.  Doubt we will see that happen any time soon, but i suspect it will happen eventually ( it would actually strengthen DRM for the companies to rely on that instead of their piss poor hacked-up encryption schemes ).  of course that would tie you to being online, unless DRM accidentally is removed on your files. ( or by design, when you first load it so you dont need to check ownership every time you read.. )

I have seen some cases of transfer between owners in 3rd party 'stores'. Also loans, like from the library where after x days it goes poof. But ya, it does still require a 'central authority' as things are today. And with that comes risk.

ink has worked out well for me.



[#] Sat Jan 02 2021 16:00:02 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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I don't hate it. In some situations, it is very convenient - but... I have reservations. 

I also think that while we still have stone tablets from 2000 years ago - paper has been more difficult to preserve, and the Library of Alexandria might not be the last time we lose great and vast stores of human knowledge in part because of the fragile media we decide to store it on. I mean, it is already happening. We create more content, albeit, much of it just noise drowning out the signal - and a lot of it just disappears - no matter how many Wayback machines we throw at it. 

 
There is also always the possibility that the knowledge is stored, but something happens so that the society doesn't recognize it as data storage, nor do they have the means to retrieve it. I wonder if that could be the case for humanity, even right now. What if all the answers are stored somewhere right in front of it, and we don't even recognize that we're looking at a library of knowledge that could improve our lives? 

20 years of working with enterprise high availability and data retention makes your mind go down these rabbit holes. 




Sat Jan 02 2021 14:31:16 EST from Nurb432

 

ink has worked out well for me.



 



[#] Sat Jan 02 2021 16:36:22 EST from Nurb432

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Oh, i agree, and i am sure we will lose it all again after the next fall of civilization.  Then if we are lucky, we start over with sticks and stones and work our way back out of the muck.  Even if we find the perfect way to store it, by the time we advanced enough to figure out how to access it again ( and for it to make any sense to us ), we wouldn't need the data as we would have recreated most of it anyway.

And yes, i have also thought the same thing. What if we had past knowledge in our face all this time but didnt realize it and either lost it or even destroyed it out of ignorance. ( or its sitting on the moon somewhere, waiting for us to discover it )

Honestly tho, I gave up worrying about that stuff long ago and just worry about my expected lifespan. Once i'm gone, its some one else's problem to guard the family history ( pictures and stuff )

 
Sat Jan 02 2021 16:00:02 EST from ParanoidDelusions

I don't hate it. In some situations, it is very convenient - but... I have reservations. 

I also think that while we still have stone tablets from 2000 years ago - paper has been more difficult to preserve, and the Library of Alexandria might not be the last time we lose great and vast stores of human knowledge in part because of the fragile media we decide to store it on. I mean, it is already happening. We create more content, albeit, much of it just noise drowning out the signal - and a lot of it just disappears - no matter how many Wayback machines we throw at it. 

 
There is also always the possibility that the knowledge is stored, but something happens so that the society doesn't recognize it as data storage, nor do they have the means to retrieve it. I wonder if that could be the case for humanity, even right now. What if all the answers are stored somewhere right in front of it, and we don't even recognize that we're looking at a library of knowledge that could improve our lives? 

20 years of working with enterprise high availability and data retention makes your mind go down these rabbit holes. 




Sat Jan 02 2021 14:31:16 EST from Nurb432

 

ink has worked out well for me.



 



 



[#] Sat Jan 02 2021 18:50:39 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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I'm to this point, for sure. 

 

Sat Jan 02 2021 16:36:22 EST from Nurb432

 

Honestly tho, I gave up worrying about that stuff long ago and just worry about my expected lifespan. Once i'm gone, its some one else's problem to guard the family history ( pictures and stuff )

 
 


 



[#] Mon Jan 04 2021 13:22:54 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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After a bit of research, i discovered that ironically back in the 80s
i was trying to make what we now call e-ink. Just didnt have a name,

History is littered with inventions that simply weren't yet possible with the technology available at the time. By that standard, Leonardo da Vinci invented the helicopter, and I invented the MP3 player.

da Vinci knew how the helicopter would fly, but he didn't have a way to power it.

My 1986 conceptualization of an MP3 player was based on early experimentation with digitized audio on my Commodore 64 (which as many of you know, had a volume control that could be hacked to play 4-bit waveforms). What we didn't have at the time was the storage density required to make it portable. I imagined that music would be distributed on ROM cartridges.

Italian geniuses, you just can't keep us from inventing stuff that isn't buildable yet :)

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