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[#] Wed Dec 23 2020 15:10:24 EST from Nurb432

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Amazon will drive that. They have bought into the entire thing and will not want long term dis-incentives for people to migrate to servers on their own chips.

Wed Dec 23 2020 14:54:58 EST from LoanShark @ Uncensored
2020-12-23 14:33 from Nurb432
I think in datacenter space its a done deal, and ARM will directly

eventually we'll get there. but for certain workloads, not yet--Java performance lags on ARM. Erlang's JIT is only available on x86. Etc...

 



[#] Wed Dec 23 2020 15:13:30 EST from LoanShark

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2020-12-23 15:10 from Nurb432
Amazon will drive that. They have bought into the entire thing and
will not want long term dis-incentives for people to migrate to
servers on their own chips.

maybe they already are. they have created a fork of openjdk; maybe they're already working on compiler improvements?

Erlang/Elixir is more a niche thing, though. But a really *nice* niche to be in, if you like functional programming and can live with the library ecosystem.

[#] Wed Dec 23 2020 18:11:06 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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So on topic, *nix and especially Mac are scoring a major win with me right now. My Mac is happily humming through a 2TB external drive doing a grep -iRl *pagan*.* ./

Just plugged the USB drive in, looked at the root directory, thought, "/Volumes seems like the place where external devices would mount... CDed to it, and... shockingly - it WAS... saw the drive, FreeAgent Drive, CDed to it, and ran the command from there. 

You might claim that it would be no harder on Linux - but I have my doubts. :) 

"Google, how do I mount an external USB PC formatted drive on Linux"

4 hours later... 




[#] Wed Dec 23 2020 19:20:29 EST from Nurb432

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just plug it in?   automouter is a wonderful thing.  ( saved typing a command each time )  Should auto mount fat, fat32, fat32 extended and NTFS .. at least it does here.

 

Im doing an Rsync mirror of a 6TB usb drive in the background ..  monthly backups. ( well 8tb drive 6tb of 'stuff' ).   and 'vvv' for a file indexer.

Wed Dec 23 2020 18:11:06 EST from ParanoidDelusions



"Google, how do I mount an external USB PC formatted drive on Linux"






 



[#] Wed Dec 23 2020 22:59:56 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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I just assumed that Linux was still behind the curve on automounting and would require me to relearn assigning a mount point to any device I plugged in, and would struggle with anything not a native *nix OS filesystem, still.


I haven't actually tried it - but I've got a test machine - and if it works, I could have a couple of different machines scanning different external drives for this lost file simultaneously, saving me a lot of time. I'll give it a shot now.

 

Wed Dec 23 2020 19:20:29 EST from Nurb432

just plug it in?   automouter is a wonderful thing.  ( saved typing a command each time )  Should auto mount fat, fat32, fat32 extended and NTFS .. at least it does here.

 

Im doing an Rsync mirror of a 6TB usb drive in the background ..  monthly backups. ( well 8tb drive 6tb of 'stuff' ).   and 'vvv' for a file indexer.

Wed Dec 23 2020 18:11:06 EST from ParanoidDelusions



"Google, how do I mount an external USB PC formatted drive on Linux"






 



 



[#] Wed Dec 23 2020 23:01:58 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Heck, I guess technically, if I'm patient, I could plug the drives into a couple of Pis running Raspbian and let them chip away at finding the missing file.



[#] Wed Dec 23 2020 23:28:47 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Lots of win going on for *nix right now over at wallofhate.com

My Macbook Pro spiked up to 168 F doing this search - so I moved to the G4 PPC... but I've got a feeling the i5 Debian box will make quicker work of scanning these drives for the file without freaking me out that it might cook itself trying to do it.

I can't believe the i7 MBP hits core temps that hot doing a simple Grep search. I really should take it apart and replace the thermal paste with Arctic Silver - but you've got to take the whole thing apart to get to the bottom of the board to take off the heat sinks...

The Mac Minis are no better. But this Dell Optiplex 3020 has the same kind of modular insides as a Dell PC or a Proliant. You press tabs, and whole parts of the subsystem unplug, giving you access to other parts of the subsystem. I've never been a huge fan of Dell quality - but they do the whole modular design thing excellent.

 

Wed Dec 23 2020 19:20:29 EST from Nurb432

just plug it in?  




 



 



[#] Wed Dec 23 2020 23:30:22 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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I did poke around in /dev and /mnt before I saw /media and thought... "Maybe somewhere in there, eh?"


It was far clearer in the root OS X system where an external device was liable to be mounted.

 

 



[#] Thu Dec 24 2020 07:55:29 EST from Nurb432

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LOL

Wed Dec 23 2020 23:28:47 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Lots of win going on for *nix right now over at wallofhate.com

 


[#] Thu Dec 24 2020 07:59:42 EST from Nurb432

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Yes, i do agree on that, it can be hit-miss.  Making matters worse, it can depend on the distribution of Linux.  ( another reason i dislike the Penguin ecosystem, no one follows standards if they dont like them. but if i stick with ONE then at least i know what its doing, for the most part )

Wed Dec 23 2020 23:30:22 EST from ParanoidDelusions

I did poke around in /dev and /mnt before I saw /media and thought... "Maybe somewhere in there, eh?"


It was far clearer in the root OS X system where an external device was liable to be mounted.

 

 



 



[#] Thu Dec 24 2020 12:36:35 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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I think in datacenter space its a done deal, and ARM will directly
compete.  For workloads that dont require windows 'services', it may
even overtake. Who knows. I agree those 80 core chips were never

As a data center professional I can tell you this with certainty. Very few server operators are choosing Windows Server nowadays except when they need to run Microsoft's own server software. And even that is becoming less prevalent, since they make such a strong case for running things like Exchange and Sharepoint in their hosted model instead of on-prem. New software (Teams) isn't even available on-prem.

Go look at the ads for developer jobs these days. Sure, you might find a few .Net holdouts that are still running on Windows, but largely you're going to find people looking for developers who can build javascript with Node and Angular and the rest of the hip, hot, totally-what's-happening open world stack.

Microsoft *knows* this and they no longer care, because they are now a cloud company, enjoying the #2 spot in hyperscale. They make plenty of money on non-Windows workloads, which now comprise the majority of Azure subscriptions.

In my data centers we do a small amount of multitenant, but the lion's share of our business is single tenant private cloud. We have a lot of enterprise customers who have workloads that don't fit well in huge public clouds, many of them are even repatriating failed public cloud projects. What I can tell you is that they aren't asking for ARM yet. The more clever ones are looking at it, doing some experiments, but we have yet to have a customer ask us for a rack of ARM servers.

[#] Thu Dec 24 2020 15:22:12 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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I just assumed that Linux was still behind the curve on automounting
and would require me to relearn assigning a mount point to any device

That's old news. Desktop versions of Linux have been automatic mounting removable storage devices for years now. It works more or less the same way a Mac does it. The bus sees the device, it triggers an event, the desktop manager consumes that event and sets up a mount point in the logged in user's directory space, opens a file manager window to that mount.

If the machine is set up as a server, no graphical desktop running and no one logged in at the console, most server operators prefer to mount devices the traditional way.

[#] Fri Dec 25 2020 00:36:11 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: 5FE4123C-0046BF01@uncensored.citadel.org

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I think "years" is an exaggeration. 

As recently as when I was trying to get Citadel running on the Pi - Linux was still hit and miss about auto-mounting external storage, and storage with non-native file systems - if we're being *generous*. 

You had to *account* for it - and it wasn't something you could just click a "Yeah, I want this," at install. 

It looks like that has changed. About -got-damnt-time-. 


Thu Dec 24 2020 15:22:12 EST from IGnatius T Foobar
I just assumed that Linux was still behind the curve on automounting
and would require me to relearn assigning a mount point to any device

That's old news. Desktop versions of Linux have been automatic mounting removable storage devices for years now. It works more or less the same way a Mac does it. The bus sees the device, it triggers an event, the desktop manager consumes that event and sets up a mount point in the logged in user's directory space, opens a file manager window to that mount.

If the machine is set up as a server, no graphical desktop running and no one logged in at the console, most server operators prefer to mount devices the traditional way.

 



[#] Fri Dec 25 2020 00:37:10 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Now make SAMBA install by default, unless you disable it, and autoconfigure too. 


Fri Dec 25 2020 00:36:11 EST from ParanoidDelusions Subject: Re: 5FE4123C-0046BF01@uncensored.citadel.org



You had to *account* for it - and it wasn't something you could just click a "Yeah, I want this," at install. 



[#] Sat Dec 26 2020 09:23:43 EST from Nurb432

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For mainstream distributions, it has been several years. 

Fri Dec 25 2020 00:36:11 EST from ParanoidDelusions Subject: Re: 5FE4123C-0046BF01@uncensored.citadel.org

I think "years" is an exaggeration. 

 



 



[#] Sat Dec 26 2020 09:38:29 EST from Nurb432

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Darn I had a wonderful long winded response and the downtime yesterday ate it :(

The short version:

Our shop still has a LOT of .net/sql/iis apps and are pumping them out all the time. Most of our 'system admins' are windows people. Here its like a 20:1 on support needs, with our smaller, but growing, Linux team pulling more weight per person. ( tho we all are all understaffed, in every department so i'm not casting stones at the windows guys ) Perhaps we are the exception due to our market, but i dont see our Linux/windows ratio changing much over the short term. On a persona level,the app i support at an admin level, not code, will never be moved off a Microsoft infrastructure. And ya, i realize never is a long time but i dont see the vendor ever taking that project on and basically starting over from scratch. This is one of the few apps i have ever seen where their core was written in Delphi.

I do see a move in data centers to ARM for cost savings ( cheaper chips and lower power, and cooling costs per 'computing unit' ), if its passed down to the customer. As long as it runs their 'job', performs acceptable and is cheaper to them, they will choose it. but i do agree that few will choose it purely by architecture. Some, but few.

And i also had personal slam about missing several trends due to personal bias ( like the entire internet thing... or blockchain )

 

 

 

Thu Dec 24 2020 12:36:35 EST from IGnatius T Foobar
I think in datacenter space its a done deal, and ARM will directly
compete.  For workloads that dont require windows 'services', it may
even overtake. Who knows. I agree those 80 core chips were never

As a data center professional I can tell you this with certainty. Very few server operators are choosing Windows Server nowadays except when they need to run Microsoft's own server software. And even that is becoming less prevalent, since they make such a strong case for running things like Exchange and Sharepoint in their hosted model instead of on-prem. New software (Teams) isn't even available on-prem.

Go look at the ads for developer jobs these days. Sure, you might find a few .Net holdouts that are still running on Windows, but largely you're going to find people looking for developers who can build javascript with Node and Angular and the rest of the hip, hot, totally-what's-happening open world stack.

Microsoft *knows* this and they no longer care, because they are now a cloud company, enjoying the #2 spot in hyperscale. They make plenty of money on non-Windows workloads, which now comprise the majority of Azure subscriptions.

In my data centers we do a small amount of multitenant, but the lion's share of our business is single tenant private cloud. We have a lot of enterprise customers who have workloads that don't fit well in huge public clouds, many of them are even repatriating failed public cloud projects. What I can tell you is that they aren't asking for ARM yet. The more clever ones are looking at it, doing some experiments, but we have yet to have a customer ask us for a rack of ARM servers.

 



[#] Sat Dec 26 2020 22:55:24 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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On a persona level,the app i support at an admin level, not code,
will never be moved off a Microsoft infrastructure. And ya, i realize
never is a long time but i dont see the vendor ever taking that
project on and basically starting over from scratch. This is one of
the few apps i have ever seen where their core was written in Delphi.

No one rewrites big applications without a VERY compelling reason to do so.
That's why we still have people running their core business logic on mainframes and midrange systems. Windows Server now falls into the same category, but without the benefit of a mainframe's ultra-high transaction processing rates.

New applications are being built "cloud native" ... whatever you choose for that to mean. Generally that means that it's part of a service oriented architecture, can be moved around easily, and scales horizontally instead of vertically. Containers are, of course, the technology that makes most of that easy. Windows Server, of course, has no part in this. Literally no one is building cloud native applications on Windows.

(And then there's the "serverless" fad, which is a stupid name, and pushed by stupid people. As if all those third party APIs are produced out of the ass of a unicorn somewhere instead of running on a server.)

So yeah, the Windows Server workloads are only going to be part of the "lift and shift" collection going forward. That doesn't mean they're going away, but starting a new project on Windows Server in ${CURRENT_YEAR} is about as sensible as starting it on VMS.

[#] Sun Dec 27 2020 10:16:44 EST from Nurb432

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i will give them credit about the front end.  As it was also in Delphi, and tied to internet explorer due to an OCX, it ether had to be redone, or they would cease to be a product. The app is over 15 years old, so its not like anything easy to make structural changes to.

Their first attempt used a 'web toolkit' and they choose poorly. Silverlight.. oops.. Lost several years of work on that one.  The next attempt was 'just' HTML5 and took them a solid 2 years. ( but i suspect some of the javascript libraries will bite them in the ass eventually ). New GUI has been out 1.5 years now, and we are hoping to migrate Q1.  Still working thru bugs with them that effect us however. They are not the best organized dev team out there. 

Before the GUI rewrite, the last big thing was to drop Oracle DB support about 10 years ago. Sure, incremental improvements and feature adds, but nothing structural.

 

Sat Dec 26 2020 22:55:24 EST from IGnatius T Foobar
No one rewrites big applications without a VERY compelling reason to do so. 

 



[#] Sun Dec 27 2020 10:17:25 EST from Nurb432

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lol.  ya. i do agree tho.

Sat Dec 26 2020 22:55:24 EST from IGnatius T Foobar
(And then there's the "serverless" fad, which is a stupid name, and pushed by stupid people. As if all those third party APIs are produced out of the ass of a unicorn somewhere instead of running on a server.)


 



[#] Sun Dec 27 2020 16:02:06 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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Ooooh, I forgot all about OCX embeds in Internet Explorer. A lot of us said at the time, those aren't web applications, they're Windows applications running inside a browser. Who knows, we might still be stuck in that kind of hell if the desktop computer was still the primary way people used the web. Apple deserves some of the credit for that.

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