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[#] Tue Nov 26 2019 04:44:13 EST from megagumbo @ Uncensored

Subject: Citadel in a Docker Container

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Hi,

for the past four years, I've been running Citadel / Spamassassin / ClamAV as a Docker application stack (using the Docker-Volume-Netshare plugin and NFS for persistance). The Citadel part of that stack was containerized using this Dockerfile: https://github.com/million12/docker-citadel

However, with recent Debian / Ubuntu releases (everything based on Stretch), this won't work anymore as with Debian Stretch the setup program does no longer accept input piped via stdin (nor does the "expect" command work). But this is needed to automate the build of the image (meaning: not having to enter a running instance of the container and manually / interactively run setup).

Anyway, my question is: does anyone know of a Dockerfile that utilizes a recent Debian / Ubuntu base and does the same as the Dockerfile linked above?



[#] Tue Nov 26 2019 23:44:58 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

i've been holding on hope that the project will be revived. i'm giving this
project six months and if things don't pick up i'm >going to transition to another groupware solution.

The project is quite active. Most development is quietly happening behind the scenes. Here are some of the things that are currently happening:

* The project web site is being rebuilt. You can preview it at http://wwwdev.citadel.org . This is a slow process because we are taking the time to update documents that have fallen out of relevance. (We're also eliminating the clumsy wiki that drove the old site.)

* WebCit is receiving a full rewrite. The new one is a very modern style web application: dynamic layout to look good on both desktop and mobile, all built with client-side rendering, and fully REST and DAV enabled throughout.
As you might imagine, this is a long running effort, and WebCit "classic" must remain the current offering until it is finished.

* Massive changes have gone into the Citadel Server behind the scenes, all intending to make it easier to run in a Docker container. For example, all of the configuration system, network data, user profiles and profile photos, etc. have all been moved into the database. If you want to see this, there is a "citadel-docker" repository on code.citadel.org that you can check out.
The idea is that you will be able to just attach the Citadel container to a persistent volume (which is where your database lives) and run it -- no "setup" program is required anymore.

So yes, plenty is going on, all you had to do was ask. Frankly, I find your "threat to leave in six months" to be in poor taste. If you want to follow development, you can. If you want to participate in the project, even better; there are plenty of places where even non-coders can help, such as updating documentation and testing builds. If however, all you want to do is complain and post idle threats; don't wait six months; please leave now.

[#] Wed Nov 27 2019 10:26:22 EST from megagumbo @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

 

Tue Nov 26 2019 23:44:58 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?
i've been holding on hope that the project will be revived. i'm giving this
project six months and if things don't pick up i'm >going to transition to another groupware solution.

The project is quite active. Most development is quietly happening behind the scenes. Here are some of the things that are currently happening:

* The project web site is being rebuilt. You can preview it at http://wwwdev.citadel.org . This is a slow process because we are taking the time to update documents that have fallen out of relevance. (We're also eliminating the clumsy wiki that drove the old site.)

* WebCit is receiving a full rewrite. The new one is a very modern style web application: dynamic layout to look good on both desktop and mobile, all built with client-side rendering, and fully REST and DAV enabled throughout.
As you might imagine, this is a long running effort, and WebCit "classic" must remain the current offering until it is finished.

* Massive changes have gone into the Citadel Server behind the scenes, all intending to make it easier to run in a Docker container. For example, all of the configuration system, network data, user profiles and profile photos, etc. have all been moved into the database. If you want to see this, there is a "citadel-docker" repository on code.citadel.org that you can check out.
The idea is that you will be able to just attach the Citadel container to a persistent volume (which is where your database lives) and run it -- no "setup" program is required anymore.

So yes, plenty is going on, all you had to do was ask. Frankly, I find your "threat to leave in six months" to be in poor taste. If you want to follow development, you can. If you want to participate in the project, even better; there are plenty of places where even non-coders can help, such as updating documentation and testing builds. If however, all you want to do is complain and post idle threats; don't wait six months; please leave now.

Now, this *is* good news indeed! Especially the info regarding docker sounds promising. Citadel is the ideal mailserver to run containerized!

Thanks for the update!



[#] Wed Nov 27 2019 14:25:55 EST from donmr @ Uncensored

Subject: User documentation

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I am looking at Citadel for use as a standalone system for emergency response groups.

There does not seem to be much documentation aimed at new users and how to do things.

Am I missing something?

This is very important as there would be many potential users with limited experience.

 

It is an impressing system.

 

Thanks



[#] Wed Nov 27 2019 14:32:33 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?

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Now, this *is* good news indeed! Especially the info regarding docker
sounds promising. Citadel is the ideal mailserver to run
containerized!

Thanks for the update!

My pleasure ... thanks for the enthusiasm.

Hopefully, the containerized distribution will become the preferred way to install Citadel. It will be nice when you can simply delete the container, download a newer version, point it at the existing data volume, and get running again.

Eliminating the need to run setup has required a lot of effort. It did require changing the installation procedure so that instead of entering an administrator user name and password, there is now a default (username "admin" with password "citadel") that is automatically created when the server detects that it is starting up for the first time on an empty database.

Some of the system administration tasks are going to move from the text client over to ctdlsh. There will probably have to be some sort of way to run ctdlsh from the container host. We haven't gotten that far yet.

But yes, the idea is that Citadel will be a "cloud native" application that you can launch to the host, or hosting provider, of your choice with very little effort.

[#] Wed Nov 27 2019 15:05:11 EST from calcmandan @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?

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Hey man

This is my first chance to respond to you. First off, I offer sincere apologies. I can see how hurtful it is to see my words, but it wasn't meant, in any way, as a 'threat.' Whether I use citadel or not shouldn't make a difference in anyone's eyes, and frankly didn't think anyone would be around to see it. In my mind, I had been lamenting the thought of finding something else to replace Citadel. If i wanted a simple pop toaster I wouldn't be here. I wanted a groupware solution and this is the best out there fitting my requirements. I would really really like to stay with what I have and NOT find something else so I'm quite surprised and delighted to hear about the work being done on Citadel. Seriously, I had no idea so much work is being actively done on the system. I would be delighted to assist in any way I can. Ideally I would help with coding but it's been so long since doing it in any capacity it would be a nasty time bandit that would yield little quality. I can assist in documentation or art work though. Whatever I can do or have time to assist in I'll be happy to volunteer.

Tue Nov 26 2019 23:44:58 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?

i've been holding on hope that the project will be revived. i'm giving this
project six months and if things don't pick up i'm >going to transition to another groupware solution.

The project is quite active. Most development is quietly happening behind the scenes. Here are some of the things that are currently happening:

* The project web site is being rebuilt. You can preview it at http://wwwdev.citadel.org . This is a slow process because we are taking the time to update documents that have fallen out of relevance. (We're also eliminating the clumsy wiki that drove the old site.)

* WebCit is receiving a full rewrite. The new one is a very modern style web application: dynamic layout to look good on both desktop and mobile, all built with client-side rendering, and fully REST and DAV enabled throughout.
As you might imagine, this is a long running effort, and WebCit "classic" must remain the current offering until it is finished.

* Massive changes have gone into the Citadel Server behind the scenes, all intending to make it easier to run in a Docker container. For example, all of the configuration system, network data, user profiles and profile photos, etc. have all been moved into the database. If you want to see this, there is a "citadel-docker" repository on code.citadel.org that you can check out.
The idea is that you will be able to just attach the Citadel container to a persistent volume (which is where your database lives) and run it -- no "setup" program is required anymore.

So yes, plenty is going on, all you had to do was ask. Frankly, I find your "threat to leave in six months" to be in poor taste. If you want to follow development, you can. If you want to participate in the project, even better; there are plenty of places where even non-coders can help, such as updating documentation and testing builds. If however, all you want to do is complain and post idle threats; don't wait six months; please leave now.

 



[#] Wed Nov 27 2019 15:07:32 EST from calcmandan @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] IMAP client access

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My citadel is internet facing. So when I say correct information, I'm configuring the proper domain name, authentication type, username and password. That usually does the trick. The username is what I use, and never the email address.

Do you have a firewall in your environment, by chance?

Sat Nov 23 2019 07:20:04 EST from Kristian @ Uncensored Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] IMAP client access

Can you please exemplify "correct info"?

I use a local IP-address, for testing. 192.168.1.10, username (not email-adress) and password. I have tried to have the client access via port 143 and 993.

Thanks in advance.



 



[#] Wed Nov 27 2019 18:49:02 EST from userT @ Uncensored

Subject: Cloud native Citadel?

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Wed Nov 27 2019 14:32:33 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?

Hopefully, the containerized distribution will become the preferred way to install Citadel. It will be nice when you can simply delete the container, download a newer version, point it at the existing data volume, and get running again.

Eliminating the need to run setup has required a lot of effort. It did require changing the installation procedure so that instead of entering an administrator user name and password, there is now a default (username "admin" with password "citadel") that is automatically created when the server detects that it is starting up for the first time on an empty database.

Some of the system administration tasks are going to move from the text client over to ctdlsh. There will probably have to be some sort of way to run ctdlsh from the container host. We haven't gotten that far yet.

But yes, the idea is that Citadel will be a "cloud native" application that you can launch to the host, or hosting provider, of your choice with very little effort.

Sorry, but, what do you mean in general?

Does it mean that Citadel will stop being installable in local servers (either virtual or bare metal) and instead we'll need a docker account to run Citadel now as an internet service?



[#] Thu Nov 28 2019 01:46:30 EST from megagumbo @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

 

Wed Nov 27 2019 14:32:33 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?
Now, this *is* good news indeed! Especially the info regarding docker
sounds promising. Citadel is the ideal mailserver to run
containerized!

Thanks for the update!

My pleasure ... thanks for the enthusiasm.

Hopefully, the containerized distribution will become the preferred way to install Citadel. It will be nice when you can simply delete the container, download a newer version, point it at the existing data volume, and get running again.

Eliminating the need to run setup has required a lot of effort. It did require changing the installation procedure so that instead of entering an administrator user name and password, there is now a default (username "admin" with password "citadel") that is automatically created when the server detects that it is starting up for the first time on an empty database.

Some of the system administration tasks are going to move from the text client over to ctdlsh. There will probably have to be some sort of way to run ctdlsh from the container host. We haven't gotten that far yet.

But yes, the idea is that Citadel will be a "cloud native" application that you can launch to the host, or hosting provider, of your choice with very little effort.

I've checked out and built the citadel-docker image, which went fine all the way. It runs perfectly and I was just about to ask here for the default admin credentials when I saw your reply. So now I can eventually log-in and check the whole thing out. As for ctdlsh and system administration tassks, would it be feasable to have kind of a maintenance port the server is listening on? So one can either expose that port and run maintenace from a second container (I wouldn't want to have an additional tool on a docker host system. Being a swarm cluster admin utilizing Portainer, I'd like to have things clean) or even schedule maintenance jobs within the same container via cron (just as we did with BBS maintenance in the good old days), talking to citadel via the port mentione above. That would allow for multiple ways to have ctdlsh to be used.

 



[#] Thu Nov 28 2019 19:24:19 EST from bmetallica @ Uncensored

Subject: db: cursor still in progress on cdb 02: attempt to write during r / o

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I want to switch from a Raspberry 3 to a 4 with rasbian buster. 
On the PI3 is the deb (via apt-get) version.
Unfortunately, this does not work on the PI4.
When I install the version via the "easy installer" on the PI4, it works.
But I can not copy the "data" directory, then I get the message:
"db: cursor still in progress on cdb 02: attempt to write during r / o cursor".
What can I do there?


[#] Thu Nov 28 2019 19:51:51 EST from bmetallica @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: db: cursor still in progress on cdb 02: attempt to write during r / o

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the problem seems to be the cdb.04


[#] Sun Dec 01 2019 17:38:29 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?

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much work is being actively done on the system. I would be delighted
to assist in any way I can. Ideally I would help with coding but it's
been so long since doing it in any capacity it would be a nasty time
bandit that would yield little quality. I can assist in documentation
or art work though. Whatever I can do or have time to assist in I'll
be happy to volunteer.

Ok great! The big opportunity to help right now is in updating the web site.
You can see the new site at http://wwwdev.citadel.org (which actually uses the same web framework as WebCit-NG) and it's obviously a big improvement but far from complete. We've brought over all of the FAQ entries, and some of them have been reformatted but there are many which need to be done. The ask is for someone to go through each one, clean up the formatting (which was badly auto-converted from wiki format), and make a list of pages which need to be updated. Then we need to do the same for the Documentation section, which hasn't been brought over yet.

If this is something that you would be interested in helping with, let me know and I'll create an account for you on the web server with access to that site.

Another opportunity to help is in testing new builds. This isn't an active opportunity quite yet, but it will become active as the Docker image and the WebCit-NG code begin to mature.

[#] Sun Dec 01 2019 17:44:54 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: Cloud native Citadel?

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Does it mean that Citadel will stop being installable in local
servers (either virtual or bare metal) and instead we'll need a
docker account to run Citadel now as an internet service?

Rest assured we will continue to distribute the Citadel system as a standalone suite of software. Easy Install will continue to exist, and the source distribution will always be available.

Docker will provide another method to install the software. If the uptake is good, it may even become the preferred way to install the software. It would be nice if you could just fetch the docker image onto your own server (physical or virtual) and run a well-tested build that is guaranteed to not conflict with anything else on the system. By "cloud native" we mean that it can *also* be launched directly via any hosting provider that offers a Docker hosting service such as Kubernetes.

What I *would* like Docker to replace, is the distribution-specific packages such as .deb and .rpm. Those tend to get out of date quickly, and it is frustrating to work with bug reports from users who have no access to the latest versions.

[#] Sun Dec 01 2019 19:02:05 EST from userT @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?

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Sun Dec 01 2019 17:38:29 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Ok great! The big opportunity to help right now is in updating the web site.

Answered in the Development room.

Also willing to test new builds when available. Long live Webcit-ng!



[#] Sun Dec 01 2019 19:25:58 EST from "me" <me@scifidan.com> to room_Citadel_Support@citadel.org

Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?

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Yeah, certainly. I'll be glad to assist.

On 12/1/19 2:38 PM, IGnatius T Foobar wrote:
If this is something that you would be interested in helping with, let me
know and I'll create an account for you on the web server with access to that
site.

[#] Mon Dec 02 2019 04:53:46 EST from bmetallica @ Uncensored

Subject: 2 smarthosts

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Hello everybody, my Citadel is working now.

But I have the following problem. In the old version it was possible to use 2 smarthosts for different domains: "username:password@host:port sender-address".

That does not seem to work anymore in the new version.

Is there a solution for this?



[#] Wed Dec 04 2019 03:50:04 EST from Ludwig @ Uncensored

Subject: install loop

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I am trying to install Citadel on my RPI3, but the installation halts in a loop at this message:

<Server port number:>

Specify the TCP port number on which your server will run.
Normally, this will be port 504, which is the official port
assigned by the IANA for Citadel servers.  You will only need
to specify a different port number if you run multiple instances
of Citadel on the same computer and there is something else
already using port 504.

This is currently set to:
########################################################################
Enter new value or press return to leave unchanged:

 

This message is repeated over and over again. I have tried to keep it simple by starting with a fresh Debian "Buster" for RPI that I have enabled SSH and updated with apt-get install and apt-get upgrade.

Then I followed the instructions on this site: http://citadel.org/doku.php?id=installation:easyinstall:prereq-debian.html

apt-get update
apt-get install build-essential curl g++ gettext shared-mime-info libssl-dev zlib1g-dev
curl http://easyinstall.citadel.org/install | bash


And when using wget -q -O - http://easyinstall.citadel.org/install | sh according to: http://citadel.org/doku.php?id=installation:easyinstall:easyinstall
I get:

 Easy Install does not yet know how to do this on your operating system.
Citadel Easy Install is aborting.
The last few lines above this message may indicate what went wrong.
Linux Debian 10.2( 4.19.75-v7+ armv7l)


Does this mean I cannot install Citadel on my PI?

All suggestions are welcome. Please be detailed as I am a novis when it comes to Linux.

 



[#] Wed Dec 04 2019 21:44:51 EST from oneflatfoot @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: install loop

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I just had the same thing happen to me on Ubuntu 19.10. Help would be much appreciated.



[#] Thu Dec 05 2019 03:14:42 EST from iMav @ Uncensored

Subject: Signing up for networked rooms

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How do we go about getting set up with pulling in some existing networked rooms?



[#] Thu Dec 05 2019 09:21:44 EST from vmajor @ Uncensored

Subject: SMTP not sending messages

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Hi,

I have a recent new issue with citadel refusing to send SMTP messages created by one of my Wordpress instances. I can send emails submitted from Thunderbird, but not from Wordpress using the Easy WP SMTP plugin.

 

This is what the outbound SMTP queue looks like after several test messages:

 

Message ID Date/time submitted Next attempt Sender Recipients
(Delete)
219268
6:41 Dec 31 1969 info@velocite-server
victor.major@gmail.com    
(Delete)
219352
7:40 Dec 31 1969 info@velocite-server
victor.major@gmail.com    
(Delete)
219356
7:42 Dec 31 1969 info@velocite-server
victor.major@gmail.com  

The odd thing is the "Next attempt" date which is the last day before the beginning of time, and long in the past.

Why is this happening and how can I make Citadel not do this and send my emails instead?

My guess is that because my WP instance is set to a TZ ahead of the Citadel server's TZ, Citadel is receiving SMTP request from the future and is deciding to troll me.

Can anyone help?

 

V.



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