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[#] Fri Jan 17 2025 02:43:21 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: Citadel 1008 and EasyInstall

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1008 contains a hotfix that is intended to fix the problem cjonline is describing.

It is now available on Easy Install. I'm still working on his problem so if that turns out not to be the fix there will be another release right behind it.

If you're a user of the text mode client, there has been some significant refactoring of that code. Not a lot of what we did is readily visible but we had a few people who wanted to build on top of it so we did some very nice cleaning up in that part of the system. It was really old code, full of gotos and other horrors, so it needed some love :)

[#] Fri Jan 17 2025 03:04:07 UTC from SamuraiCrow

Subject: Re: Citadel Protocol binding for Dart Native?

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Wed Jan 15 2025 23:00:26 UTCfrom IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Citadel Protocol binding for Dart Native?

First of all, it's awesome that you want to build on top of the Citadel system.
Whatever you need to succeed, we will be happy to assist. Let me know if you want to work on it in the Citadel Development room and we can get you access to that.

...
Barring that, I believe you're correct that the "native" approach would be to write a dart:ffi binding to Citadel's native wire protocol. The upside to this is that it's guaranteed to work and the native protocol is VERY stable and secure.

So there you go. Let me know if any of this tickled your fancy.


Thanks for the warnings about WebCit. I doubt if I will use WebCit-NG either, though. At this point it is a toss-up between adapting from the text client or rewriting the protocol bindings in Dart.

For now I'm just getting started with the Dart programming language. It started out to be a replacement for JavaScript but now it uses LLVM as a backend and generates native code on several platforms, not to mention WebAssembly in the browser. Unfortunately, as it has matured, it has also grown in complexity. It now is on par with some very advanced Java and C++ functionalities and I'm just now starting to get the hang of it only slightly.
 
I'll provide updates in the new room I started here just for Citadel Bindings. Thanks again!


[#] Fri Jan 17 2025 03:13:12 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: citdel db issues (Log)

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cjonline: I have successfully reproduced your crash and can confirm that the hotfix in Citadel 1008 will prevent the server from crashing.

However, I should warn you that if your queue contains thousands of spams, you definitely don't want to just install the fix and go right back online, because that will cause all of the spams to be delivered (minus the corrupted one that's crashing the server).

If you don't have a backup that was taken before the spams arrived, may I suggest this course of action:

0. Start taking backups in the future. Please.
1. Upgrade the Citadel installation, but don't start it yet.
2. Disconnect your server from the network, *or* if you're proficient with iptables, block outgoing connections on port 25.
3. Start the Citadel Server and log in.
4. Go to the hidden room called __CitadelSMTPspoolout__ (the text client might be good for this)
5. DELETE EVERY MESSAGE IN THAT ROOM. That's the queue.
6. Shut down Citadel Server, take a backup, start it up again, and go back online.

Obviously you're also going to want to audit your system and find the account that was compromised, and change the password.

I hope this is helpful!

[#] Fri Jan 17 2025 03:19:34 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: Citadel Protocol binding for Dart Native?

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Thanks for the warnings about WebCit. I doubt if I will use WebCit-NG
either, though. At this point it is a toss-up between adapting from the
text client or rewriting the protocol bindings in Dart.

The client protocol handler in the text client (citadel_ipc.c) might be an excellent place to start. The interface to that library, and in particular the CtdlIPCGenericCommand() interface (through which all other commands run) is long term stable. Should your project be a big success, we could even think about splitting it out into a separate component in the future to make updates easier.

In fact, we recently completed a project to make the client more strict about doing 100% of its server communication through either the per-method functions or CtdlIPCGenericCommand() at the very least. The reason for this, aside from being technically correct, is that we want to add other transports (UDP, HTTP, various darknet transports, maybe packet radio) in the future and it will be convenient to be able to just write other transports to that same interface without having to heavily modify the client.

Your project sounds interesting and fun. Looking forward to seeing it.

[#] Fri Jan 17 2025 04:03:11 UTC from SamuraiCrow

Subject: Re: No working install posible on debian bookworm or other raspberry pi os

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I just thought I'd report that Debian Bookworm on my Cubox i4Pro is working on version 1007! The only part of my server that is not working is the dynamic DNS hack on my parents' router to present a subdomain publicly on the webs but I've logged in through the IP address on the router manually and that worked flawlessly! Of course it will not be as fast when accessing the upstream of an ADSL connection but I thought I'd report that Citadel and WebCit are working on the Cubox.

If you don't feel like looking up the specs of the Cubox i4pro, I'll list some of them here. ARM7, 32-bit instruction set, 2 GiB of total RAM, Gigabit Ethernet (though the CPU can't drive it past half-speed) and the untested parts are the eSATA port with an external drive bay (sold separately). It's a pity those Cubox machines from SolidRun are hard to find. It'd make a mean little server if I found a better internet gateway to put it on. So far it is running fine with a 128 GiB MicroSD card but I've heard that those wear out quickly. Maybe I'll have to hook up an external drive. (Not USB though, since it only has 2 USB2 ports and no USB3, it'll have to be an eSATA and probably a platter drive at that, since I'm too cheap to put an SSD in it.)

TLDR: IT WORKS!



[#] Fri Jan 17 2025 11:07:53 UTC from cjonline

Subject: Re: citdel db issues (Log)

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Thanks for your help :)

 

its finally up and running and not crashing anymore..

How can I bulk delete messages in the smtp queue.. ? there is thousands.

Craig.

 

Fri Jan 17 2025 03:13:12 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: citdel db issues (Log)

cjonline: I have successfully reproduced your crash and can confirm that the hotfix in Citadel 1008 will prevent the server from crashing.

However, I should warn you that if your queue contains thousands of spams, you definitely don't want to just install the fix and go right back online, because that will cause all of the spams to be delivered (minus the corrupted one that's crashing the server).

If you don't have a backup that was taken before the spams arrived, may I suggest this course of action:

0. Start taking backups in the future. Please.
1. Upgrade the Citadel installation, but don't start it yet.
2. Disconnect your server from the network, *or* if you're proficient with iptables, block outgoing connections on port 25.
3. Start the Citadel Server and log in.
4. Go to the hidden room called __CitadelSMTPspoolout__ (the text client might be good for this)
5. DELETE EVERY MESSAGE IN THAT ROOM. That's the queue.
6. Shut down Citadel Server, take a backup, start it up again, and go back online.

Obviously you're also going to want to audit your system and find the account that was compromised, and change the password.

I hope this is helpful!

 



[#] Fri Jan 17 2025 14:05:26 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: citdel db issues (Log)

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How can I bulk delete messages in the smtp queue.. ? there is
thousands.

The rude-and-crude way would be to go to the room called __CitadelSMTPspoolout__ and delete the room, then restart Citadel Server. When you restart it a new queue will be created.

When you delete a room its contents are moved to a hidden namespace and resources are reclaimed the next time the auto-purger is run, so you won't see a change in disk space immediately.

[#] Fri Jan 17 2025 14:06:17 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: No working install posible on debian bookworm or other raspberry pi os

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I just thought I'd report that Debian Bookworm on my Cubox i4Pro is
working on version 1007!

Sounds like a neat project. It sort of has the same vibe as the old Cobalt microservers.

[#] Fri Jan 17 2025 14:12:11 UTC from cjonline

Subject: Re: citdel db issues (Log)

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thanks, but I had message in there that I needed to keep... therefore I managed to change the view of the folder to mailbox view and deleted all the messages..

 

site is back up and mail is working again.. 

thanks again.

you Rock!

Fri Jan 17 2025 14:05:26 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: citdel db issues (Log)
How can I bulk delete messages in the smtp queue.. ? there is
thousands.

The rude-and-crude way would be to go to the room called __CitadelSMTPspoolout__ and delete the room, then restart Citadel Server. When you restart it a new queue will be created.

When you delete a room its contents are moved to a hidden namespace and resources are reclaimed the next time the auto-purger is run, so you won't see a change in disk space immediately.

 



[#] Fri Jan 17 2025 15:37:51 UTC from jellejilles.com

Subject: Citadel docker not opening TLS ports

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The default docker ran with the command from the docs

mkdir /usr/local/citadel
docker run -i --rm --network host --volume=/usr/local/citadel:/citadel-data citadeldotorg/citadel

 

opens starttls ports, but not tls ports. Why would this be?



[#] Fri Jan 17 2025 15:52:35 UTC from jellejilles.com

Subject: Re: Citadel docker not opening TLS ports

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I've figured it out, the ports are set to -1 by default and the documentation on default opened ports is wrong. You can edit them with this: citadel.org



[#] Fri Jan 17 2025 16:54:22 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: Citadel docker not opening TLS ports

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Thanks for pointing out the documentation that needs updating. You are correct, the dedicated TLS ports are disabled by default and can easily be enabled by setting their port numbers.

[#] Sat Jan 18 2025 21:31:33 UTC from Kurisu

Subject: Re: Citadel 1008 and EasyInstall

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If you're a user of the text mode client, there has been some significant refactoring of that code. Not a lot of what we did is readily visible but we had a few people who wanted to build on top of it so we did some very nice cleaning up in that part of the system. It was really old code, full of gotos and other horrors, so it needed some love :)
 
 
 

Yep, I saw the code improvements being made (I legitimately look at the code page once a day as a matter of interest) and am honestly quite pleased with the text mode client currently.  Behaves fine as far as auto color detection for any reasonable terminal -- gives only monochrome in Syncterm but I kind of like that (use a real terminal for citadel amirite?.) and doesn't have the usual code spillover for color detection like it used to in any situation I've been able to test except for one condition: if the baud rate is too low and the logon screen doesn't finish before the auto-detect threshold (I'm presuming that's the time criteria) then you will get said spillover. Honestly, not that big a concern as even my C128 wifi modem does 9600 normally (too bad I don't have access to it to test right now) but it is a case where such can happen. I would hope anyone crazyenough to access my BBS with a 300 baud modem would also be smart enough to just backspace before putting in their name. ;)

Secondly, I have to applaud that the formatting of text in the messages folder is now respected by the text client -- something I was meaning to ask about but didn't as I don't want to be annoying and at this stage everything I think could be improved seems to be improved in the next build. Really makes my logon screen work well, and I can use an ASCI banner on the logon and know it will print correctly on screens larger than 80 columns wide!

Screenshot from a Windows 2000 VM, for that Y2K authenticity.

PS: Also working perfectly in the telnet client that comes with FreeDOS, for what that's worth. :D



[#] Sun Jan 19 2025 03:03:12 UTC from SamuraiCrow

Subject: Re: Citadel Protocol binding for Dart Native?

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Fri Jan 17 2025 03:19:34 UTCfrom IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Citadel Protocol binding for Dart Native?
Your project sounds interesting and fun. Looking forward to seeing it.
 

You can monitor the progress at my CodeBerg.org repo. So far it's a mockup of some of the screens with placeholder text. Once I started getting the hang of the Dart language, it's turning out to be pretty easy to work with. Every now and then I have to look up a command syntax on the webs but as long as I'm using Intellisense on OSS (VS Code with the snooping taken out), it's starting to go pretty smoothly even.

I looked through the C source file you indicated on the text client. It's clean code for C and I have no trouble reading it. At this point the only reason I'd reinvent the protocol source is if I wanted it to be the same license as the client itself.

Of course, making the C client code into an LGPL shared object would tip the scales fully in favor of using the C client code. On the other side of the scale, Dart makes code that's portable across 5 platforms plus 2 in the browser itself (standard web page with JavaScript or compiled web page with WebAssembly). If one platform didn't support such a shared object, I'd probably translate the code into MIT licensed Dart.



[#] Sun Jan 19 2025 03:39:02 UTC from SamuraiCrow

Subject: Bugs in WebCit or Citadel?

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I noticed a few bugs in the web interface or the underlying infrastructure. If they are all in WebCit, I wouldn't be surprised.

  1. I entered an event in the calendar here and it translated the times into a different timezone. I don't mind if it's stored in the server as GMT because the server uses Linux. When it gets sent back to my browser it shows in GMT still instead of my native timezone, though.
  2. I've noticed some of the HTML formatting in the editor is not as flexible as raw HTML in the respective mode of the editor. In other words, I can edit paragraph tags into header tags and it shows headers right after I submit the changes. It's probably a minor matter as the text editor upstream hasn't been updated. 
  3. The only way I've found to enter links on this page is to do it manually in HTML mode as well. Once entered, the ghosted link icon springs to life and lets me edit the link I've just created.
  4. Once a message is saved to drafts, there is no way to make it post. Even moving the message to a room is typically unsuccessful. (This is on a system a few versions back.)

I wouldn't be surprised if this is all WebCit standard bugs, so I just would like to know if these are known bugs or not?



[#] Sun Jan 19 2025 18:09:32 UTC from luisgo

Subject: Is this settings enouth for a citadel email server co-sited with ....?

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Dear all,

Is this settings enouth for a citadel email server co-sited with Apache to be deployed?

Email server with only two active users. Apache with less than 10GBytes/month activity.

VPS with 2 CPU cores, 3 GB RAM. I am doubting about 2CPU cores as the minimum number of threads of citadel is 5. Must I limit the number maximum number of threads? I have now 16.

Thanks,

Luís Gonçalves. 



[#] Mon Jan 20 2025 05:06:23 UTC from MarisaG

Subject: how to add languages to webcit?

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I have a fair number of users in DE and FR who would like the interface to be in their native language.

How do I do that?



[#] Tue Jan 21 2025 02:39:00 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: Citadel 1008 and EasyInstall

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Screenshot from a Windows 2000 VM, for that Y2K authenticity.

Nice. If you're doing a retro style BBS kind of thing, I trust that you've found the various "shell in a web page" type of emulators? Here we're using ttyd [https://github.com/tsl0922/ttyd] which I have found to be the most well-behaved out of all the ones out there.

I've got a Wyse 150 down in the garage that I've been meaning to hook up to my main server ever since I brought my hosting operations back home after my data center arrangements came to an end. I haven't used that terminal in years -- it used to be hooked up to a Sun machine back when Solaris was still a thing.

[#] Tue Jan 21 2025 02:57:08 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: Citadel Protocol binding for Dart Native?

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Of course, making the C client code into an LGPL shared object would
tip the scales fully in favor of using the C client code. On the other

I'm not opposed to that, if we can work out the logistics of doing so.

We have to work out two issues on that. The first is that the primary author of citadel_ipc.c would be difficult to contact for relicensing permission because he died in 2021. I don't know how that works; to the best of my knowledge he left no successors or assignees. The second is that citadel_ipc.c depends on libcitadel, which has numerous authors.

If you're definitely serious about building atop citadel_ipc.c then we will figure it out.

[#] Tue Jan 21 2025 13:12:06 UTC from Nurb432

Subject: Re: Citadel Protocol binding for Dart Native?

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I wonder if it works like their other belongings without a stated plan for their "estate", it goes to the spouse by default, and if that isn't available it goes into limbo with probate and people have to fight over things. And if no one steps up there, it goes to the state and is lost forever.

But i don't claim to be an attorney, nor have i stayed at a holiday-inn, in perhaps 50 years ..

I Tue Jan 21 2025 02:57:08 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Citadel Protocol binding for Dart Native?
.

We have to work out two issues on that. The first is that the primary author of citadel_ipc.c would be difficult to contact for relicensing permission because he died in 2021. I don't know how that works; to the best of my knowledge he left no successors or assignees. The second is that citadel_ipc.c depends on libcitadel, which has numerous authors.

 



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