Please wait...
I doubt they veer from ARM at this point, since they are in total control, and have no incentive to move to something like RISC-V or back to x86. But ya, "we added this new bit that obsoletes everything prior, time to buy a new one" will be a regular occurrence.
And ya, it comes at a price, but since they want to fleece users, only their customer pay the price by being on the upgrade treadmill.
Now, that aside, they do tend to stick with an architecture for a while and still support it, its not like "You just bought x, here comes the new one next week . hahahahah!". Were they super great about it? No, but not as bad as they could have been. Example is the x86, they have had ARM out for a while now, and just now are cutting it off this year. Could have been 'day one'. And of course as you mentioned the 'multi arch' bridge from 68k to PowerPC
Wed Dec 24 2025 04:58:15 UTC from IGnatius T FoobarHow many times have they gone, "This is a dead end," from 69k at
Apple Silicon? And cut off EVERYONE before. And I can still move
files from a Classic Mac Plus all the way to a modern OS X Mac -
Apple has made it clear at this point: your binaries won't last forever, and they *will* change the architecture again. Between the Rosetta subsystem and multi-architecture binaries, they've somehow kept most of their users on board through all of the transitions. I too am surprised at how loyal they are, but then again, I remain surprised that people put up with the crap Windows dishes out as well.
Full backwards compatibility comes at a price, but it can be done. A modern IBM zSeries mainframe can still run software written for a System/360 in 1964, unmodified.
By the way, you can still run an operating system written for the 8088 on a modern AMD-64 PC, because those chips can still boot up in real mode. Why, I don't know. Nobody wants to do that. And if you're booted into 32-bit protected mode, you can still run virtual 8086 mode programs in it. However, there is no virtual 8086 mode in 64-bit long mode. That's why you can't run MS-DOS or Windows 3.1 programs on 64-bit Windows.
I will admit, at this point, I don't see a future for me on a Windows 11 platform. They've gone in a very Apple direction. I'm not really happy with Google and Android and ChromeOS either.
More and more I see a Linux based future for me - it finally is going to have the year of the Paranoid Delusion desktop. So it seems.
In the retail/commodity market, windows and apple do have a future. Its what the unwashed masses will choose. Basically "choose which garden you wish to be in". We may think its dumb, but its what will happen. And yes, for those who can, it will be Linux, *bsd, etc. But its still going to be a minority. Until the point where we cant access things at least. The future browser lock-down is coming i think. "use the approved browser, or you don't get access" and the approved ones, wont be open.
It is too bad you don't like ChromeOS. Does everything Linux does and runs android apps ( and VMs if you need windows or something.. ), and can be locked down for enterprise environments. AND other than perhaps some proprietary drivers, which isn't new, its all open source code that is freely available. ( that may change with the new project, donno. If if it does, ill reverse my opinion ). Only real downside is you are stuck with their desktop GUI, but at this stage of the game its not much different than everyone else's. I have heard of ways around that, but nothing 'promising' and wasn't worth pursuing anyway. As long as its lightweight and not in my face, i care less about my desktop these days than i do my apps..
Thu Dec 25 2025 07:30:24 UTC from ParanoidDelusionsI will admit, at this point, I don't see a future for me on a Windows 11 platform. They've gone in a very Apple direction. I'm not really happy with Google and Android and ChromeOS either.
More and more I see a Linux based future for me - it finally is going to have the year of the Paranoid Delusion desktop. So it seems.
You're probably right. You are right. I hate that you are right.
But... ChromeOS is no different than MS or Apple. You know that, right? They're no longer they "do no evil," brand - they're literally the "do LESS evil," brand since their Indian CEO took the helm.
I don't want to pick the lesser evil. I want the NO evil brand.
That is Prison. I don't want the cell mate who will rape me gently and give me a kiss before the fun begins. I want the cell mate who just won't rape me.
Isn't that fair?
Thu Dec 25 2025 14:38:22 UTC from Nurb432In the retail/commodity market, windows and apple do have a future. Its what the unwashed masses will choose. Basically "choose which garden you wish to be in". We may think its dumb, but its what will happen. And yes, for those who can, it will be Linux, *bsd, etc. But its still going to be a minority. Until the point where we cant access things at least. The future browser lock-down is coming i think. "use the approved browser, or you don't get access" and the approved ones, wont be open.
It is too bad you don't like ChromeOS.
Yes, i agree google has shifted, and is now the 'less bad' of the mainstream group. I dont think they have truly crossed the evil line yet, just not the same as they were and are close to getting there in the next few years. But currently the product is still 100% open, so that the parent company isn't perfect, is ok with me. ( who is perfect really? )
I doubt they veer from ARM at this point, since they are in total control, and have no incentive to move to something like RISC-V or back to x86. But ya, "we added this new bit that obsoletes everything prior, time to buy a new one" will be a regular occurrence.
Depends on the motive, I guess.
ARM gives them a choice on who builds the chip design, who runs the fabs, It gives them unlimted second-source ability. And to that end, there will never be any reason to move beyond that. They can just keep iterating on "Apple Silicon ARM" forever.
But they do need an ARM license. And if ARM starts ... heh ... strong-arming them ... then RISC-V gives them that one final move to put them in control of both sourcing and license.
Personally I think it's all sort of stupid and they should have just bought the rights to the 680X0 line from Motorola decades ago if this is the kind of thing they wanted to do.
You're probably right. You are right. I hate that you are right.
But... ChromeOS is no different than MS or Apple. You know that, right? They're no longer they "do no evil," brand - they're literally the "do LESS evil," brand since their Indian CEO took the helm.
Fear not, for he is only partially right.
The genie is already out of the bottle, and more people are discovering Linux freedom every day. We don't actually want every machine on the shelf at Best Buy to be running Linux. Maybe some of them. But not all of them. Let the unwashed masses stew in the cesspools of Apple, Microsoft, and Google ecosystems. The free world may not be on store shelves but it's now massively self-sustaining and growing fast. Power users disenfranchised with Windows 11 are adopting Linux at a rate never before seen. Exponential growth has started. Just watch.
Ride the wave and enjoy it. And don't worry about the intellectual peasants. We don't want Eternal September Linux.
I'll think of examples where Google isn't just "less evil," but actively evil.
I heard a story recently about a developer that had accidentally signed up for some licensing agreement that was exponential, on something trivial, and Google came back and went, "you owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in licensing fees." They guy made him case, sent it in, and they went, "Wow, we get it, that sucks. But pay us, or we'll ruin your life like an indentured servant on an Aliens movie working for Weyland-Yutani
More human than the human, and all that. A literally predicted corporate dystopia.
> They're no longer they "do no evil," brand - they're literally the "do LESS evil," brand since their Indian CEO took the helm.
I kinda feel like maybe you could've phrased that in a slightly less racist way.
I doubt we see that happen. They pretty much got their hands slapped here recently when they tried being dickheads. Of course cant predict what some wacko future CEO wants to do, but i sort of doubt we see that. I also think the wild card of RISC-V will keep ARM more in line. There is now a way out if one has to exit stage left, so they best not bite their customers hands, and they know this.
As far as Apple, somehow i don't think they would want to go the RISC route, as that would put too much silicon work on their end, as while free as RISC-V is, it comes with extra effort/cost/strings they dont want. Same reason they didn't buy out Motorola ( as you suggested ), or even ARM..( as many thought they might ). They want proprietary to keep the garden walls up ( which ARM gives them ), but they wont want to go too far down the rabbit hole and just pay someone else to to the back-end heavy lifting. But same thing here, the next CEO might be 1/2 nuts and not care about legacy operations and "we are going this direction now, deal with it" since they could afford it, but i dont see it.
Now that said, i could see NVIDIA buying ARM, and totally changing the playing field overnight. They ARE dickheads.. and could even intentionally force people to RISC-V to get them out of their hair.. If i remember right, they were going to once a few years ago, but it got shut down by the regulators. But with Trump behind them it could be revisited and get approved this time ( no not "going there" politically, just that he would help if Huang asked, and with with all the current AI hype/FUD from DC, would not be surprised if its tried )
Sun Dec 28 2025 03:19:38 UTC from IGnatius T FoobarBut they do need an ARM license. And if ARM starts ... heh ... strong-arming them ... then RISC-V gives them that one final move to put them in control of both sourcing and license.
I didn't read it that way.
Just the indicator of who was now in control of the boat and when it started changing direction. And when they dropped the old motto.. Which was disappointing to us who 'liked' google ( I wasn't a fanboy, but they were fine to deal with so i used them without concern for several things )
Sun Dec 28 2025 12:30:31 UTC from PanaSonic> They're no longer they "do no evil," brand - they're literally the "do LESS evil," brand since their Indian CEO took the helm.
I kinda feel like maybe you could've phrased that in a slightly less racist way.
They chose to make it a point that the CEO is a particular race or nationality, not to say "since the CEO changed" if they didn't want to look up the name.
Just the indicator of who was now in control of the boat and
when it started changing direction. And when they dropped the
old motto.. Which was disappointing to us who 'liked' google ( I
wasn't a fanboy, but they were fine to deal with so i used them
without concern for several things )
zooer used to make fun of me for being ok with Google back in those days.
I hope he drops by sometime and reads this message: dude, you were so right.
Mea culpa.
Here's the thing. Google's turn to the dark side didn't happen at the hands of a specific CEO. Yes, the rapid indianization of west coast technology is alarming, but that's not the core problem. Google is BIG. Google has MONEY. Google has POWER. That makes it a magnet for evil, corruption, and all the other Bad Things we deal with. A company with that much money and influence is going to attract the kind of people who want to use it to operate the levers of evilness. It's going to attract the kind of people who want to leverage it for political activism.
It's going to attract investors who only care about expanding the money, even if it harms people or even the core technology itself.
Not to put too fine a point on it, Larry and Sergei weren't exactly midwest farm boys who loved America and Jesus and supported the troops while listening to Elvis records. They were Stanford PhD students. They were literally California college elites. Their turn to the dark side was inevitable once Darth Schmidt completed their training.
Now that said, i could see NVIDIA buying ARM, and totally
changing the playing field overnight. They ARE dickheads.. and
could even intentionally force people to RISC-V to get them out
of their hair.. If i remember right, they were going to once a
The existence of RISC-V could be the very thing that will discourage someone ... anyone ... from acquiring ARM and relicensing it under less favorable terms. ARM is, to some ironic extent, the catalyst that has encouraged much of the technology world to move away from being less dependent on a specific architecture. Take that away and ARM suddenly has much less reason to exist.
This is the dynamic I've been pounding on for decades: License your technology on favorable terms, or it will be cloned.
We've seen it with unix, with databases, with protocols, and the same pressure applies here. If ARM stops being the "safe neutral architecture" people will move from ARM to RISC-V, just like they moved from Intel to ARM. And once that migration momentum starts, it doesn't stop. (Just ask the folks who used to make megabucks off Solaris and HPUX and AIX and etc. etc.) Intel thought they were untouchable until ARM skyrocketed into everywhere. RISC-V is the "spirit at the gate" -- it's there and will remain there, ready for the day when someone needs an escape hatch.
Try to lock something down too much and you just hand the keys to someone else (Linux, RISC-V, etc) and once that door opens, it slams shut behind you.
I guess we will see.. there is a shakeup coming in the industry. most of us will be around to see how it falls out.
The genie is already out of the bottle, and more people are
discovering Linux freedom every day. We don't actually
want every machine on the shelf at Best Buy to be running
Linux. Maybe some of them. But not all of them. Let the
unwashed masses stew in the cesspools of Apple, Microsoft, and
Funny enough, the Steam Deck is making this a reality. COnsidering hardware priced of gaming hardware next year, the release of the Steam Machine proper could turn Linux game distributions a solid option for enthusiast gamers.
See, RAM prices are getting so out of wack that traditional PC gaming is going to be hard to get into for a little while. People is probably going to stick with consoles and consolized PCs this incoming generation because a proper gamer PC is already many thousand dolars and won't get any cheaper. This opens the window for a budget Linux option to seize the market. It sounds bad "now" but an 800 bucks Linux Gaming PC from a reputable vendor can grab a sizeable quota of the marketshare with time.
Google Fiber is trying to get me to switch from Cox SO aggressively.
So, about a decade ago, I wrote an article for Tech Republic, about how I bought an ASUS Android tablet, and didn't get it set up at home, in Ohio. I went into work to finish, and when I went to connect to the private IT network at my office, it was already connected. I realized at the time that Google/Android was uploading WiFi passwords to Google servers. That they had a private, corporate IT wifi password on their servers. I wrote an article, it got so much traction it had made it to a German translation by the next morning and people were calling me. I got a lot of ridicule.
Then a few months later it came out that the NSA had hacked Google and gotten into their internal network - and that all internal traffic was undecrypted - so once inside, the NSA had access to every WiFi AP that Google had stored, which was EVERY ANDROID DEVICE that had ever connected to any AP *ever*...
And then that got big. It was a ZDNet or CNet guy - Horowitz - Threat Assessment... I can't find it on Google - that blew it up. It has been cleansed from the search engines. But I had issues with Google after that - weird ones that made me feel a little persecuted. And that is when I started going, "they're not Doing No Evil, no more."
They fooled me too, Ig.
Right. And they were also using all the private wifi networks they'd "learned" to enhance maps/navigation by spying on both network operators and mobile devices. If the device saw a particular MAC on the air they could correlate it to a specific network operator's location. Actually I think they still do that. But they claim it's all private and anonymous and can't be used for nefarious purposes.
Until someone has a need for a nefarious purpose, of course.
The truth is, all the tech giants (FAMANG) are equally as evil now. It used to be Microsoft And The Seven Dwarfs. Now it's more of an equal distribution.