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[#] Thu Jul 22 2021 16:09:02 EDT from Nurb432

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Some. I know im not among that group. :)

Trying to figure out how to get mac at the office and get mine upgraded before they are all M1 chips. So i can run Linux and have a windows VM ( not  be stuck with an emulator .. )

Thu Jul 22 2021 03:13:16 PM EDT from LoanShark

 This might finally be what some of us have been waiting for.

 



[#] Thu Jul 22 2021 16:33:22 EDT from LoanShark

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well, yeah, nuking Redmond might prevent further embrace/extend/extinguish.

All that aside, a couple of us had some long discussions about GUI/3D virtualization performance, a few months ago, this ties into that.

[#] Sat Jul 24 2021 11:27:53 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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I'd like to have both on the same machine. Obviously I'd prefer if it were the other way around (accelerated Windows graphics on a Linux host) but this is good too, especially for people who are "stuck with Windows at work" and just want to run some of the real stuff on that machine.

I'm really hoping that they eventually get this stuff running on servers.
I know they keep saying that it's a developer tool and not a deployment tool.
But if they got it running on Windows Server I might consider doing the unthinkable.

[#] Sat Jul 24 2021 11:36:29 EDT from Nurb432

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Dont make us lose faith in you. 

 

:)

Sat Jul 24 2021 11:27:53 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

But if they got it running on Windows Server I might consider doing the unthinkable.

 



[#] Sun Jul 25 2021 12:02:51 EDT from LoanShark

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LOL

[#] Sun Jul 25 2021 21:08:19 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Heh. I doubt it will happen. You remember what happened in 1997 when I was convinced all was lost and was going to port Citadel to windoze ... the code I wrote in preparation for that made it a Linux program far more powerful than it was before. Also, gaming on your server VM host might suck down a few more cycles than basic desktop use currently does.

When I was looking at figuring out a dual-GPU setup for my main rig last year it was because I wanted to smash up cars and trains and airplanes with my son in BeamNG. That's no longer a required use case because I took the easy way out and bought *him* a faster computer.

[#] Mon Jul 26 2021 12:38:03 EDT from LoanShark

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Yeah, I'm cool with where WSL is going. Obviously if you're stuck with Windows, you're going to be running it either as the host or the guest one way or the other.

Frankly after the deep technical dive we got into a year or two ago, I became convinced that Microsoft might be the only company in the industry with both the expertise and the deep pockets to do desktop GPU virtualization *right.* After all, they designed a highly-effective 3D API in the form of Direct3D 12, which is the product of deep collaboration with Nvidia and AMD to figure out what works best. Oracle's efforts in this area just have not panned out, and some of the other hypervisors (VMware, KVM) came up with a partial solution but never something that was good enough to standardize across all 3 of the major GPU vendors (Nvidia, AMD, and Intel)


Microsoft has the ability to drive changes in GPU driver model far more quickly than tends to happen in the Linux space (look what happened with Wayland)

[#] Mon Jul 26 2021 12:44:29 EDT from Nurb432

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Something else that should have never happened.

Its as bad as sysD.

 

Mon Jul 26 2021 12:38:03 PM EDT from LoanShark

(look what happened with Wayland)

 



[#] Mon Jul 26 2021 12:48:10 EDT from LoanShark

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2021-07-26 12:44 from Nurb432
Something else that should have never happened.

Its as bad as sysD.

besides the fact that it's taken far too long to implement, the last time I checked, it has both benefits and drawbacks.

if you are using a window environment that does compositing, especially one where the compositing cannot be turned off, Wayland will be far more efficient than X. (Personal experience: try opening about 50+ openoffice windows in a batch, and see which environment runs out of memory and which does not. openoffice/libreoffice now target gtk2 so can function as a native wayland client *or* an X client.)

*but* for applications that cannot be ported from X to Wayland any time soon (*cough* Java *cough*), Xwayland has a few glitches.

[#] Mon Jul 26 2021 13:53:13 EDT from Nurb432

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My understanding from the beginning that it removes all the reasons X exists, trying to turn *nix into |yet another lame desktop os".  ( remote graphic calls and such )

I stopped reading at that point and was against it.



[#] Tue Jul 27 2021 09:17:13 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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You can compare it to systemd in another way, then: Wayland is happening whether you like it or not, so you'd better get used to it.

My understanding of the change is that X carries with it a ton of legacy technical debt from functionality that is no longer used, and all the real work is done in the compositor. The X server mainly just acts as a proxy between applications, the compositor, and the framebuffer. Wayland removes that and makes the compositor the main actor in display management.

But what about remoting? This is the chorus that was always raised when discussions of the Wayland transition began. Now that complaint is long gone because there is a Wayland compositor whose "framebuffer" is an RDP session that can be reached with any standard client. It even does individual windows instead of the whole screen if you want it to, restoring the X11 tradition of being able to have windows from multiple hosts running on the same desktop.

WSL-G actually uses the RDP compositor, establishing a session between the Linux and Windows sides of the machine, but with some performance hacks to use shared memory instead of a TCP connection. This gets the job done, but I think if they are serious about it they should be working on a native Wayland compositor that writes directly to the Windows desktop.

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