Not directly related. Just this weekend i tossed a couple of STart magazines, back when magazines came with a floppy taped to the front cover. 

Wed May 29 2024 17:23:27 EDT from darknetuser

I source most of my recovery media from Linux and ADMIN magazine lol.

I think it was last year when i read about it first, but having an official release this year means its really alive and not a 'flash in the pan' rebirth.

Used to carry DSL on a CD and a usb stick in my 'harddrive toolkit bag', for recovery use in the old days.  Switched to "system rescue"  when DSL went away . ( the bag also had  adapters for both sizes IDE, scsi, sata, later m.2 too.  was used when friends got new drives, and needed to copy stuff, or toasted their install and needed help. )

Wed May 29 2024 16:58:46 EDTfrom darknetuser

I had heard that work on DSL had resumed a good while ago.

Officially back from the dead:

"The Damn Small Linux team has released Release Candidate 4 (RC4) for DSL 2024! This update brings a series of improvements focused on user experience, administrative tasks, and international accessibility.

New GhostBSD release. I should try it again. Tried that long ago, dismal failure ( i forget why, but was nothing but frustration )

( its essentially a desktop centric flavor of FreeBSD, not a fork, designed to optionally hide the complexities of real FreeBSD from newbies.  Or the lazy, like myself.  )

That is what has been said many a time. "cant" then while people are not fighting it, it does.

And at this point, screw it, if him and his crew take over completely and ruin things, ill either go back to BSD, or just shut it all off and walk away ( liable to do that anyway . sick of the industry ).  As long as i can listen to my music and watch my cat video files and DVDs ( can always use dedicated hardware ) then i'm fine. 

Tue Apr 30 2024 22:07:33 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I'm not so sure it's possible to completely replace sudo. 

I have not tried it one of those cheap-o lenovo Mp3p's i was buying like water last year, I bet it would work.  Cheap, small, real hardware and pretty solid. Doubt the wifi would work tho, and you cant easily swap them with another card  or they are liable to refuse to post, and just scream at you ( learned that the hard way )..  If i get a chance this weekend i might try, just to see.

Unrelated, now that im not using them in my farm, they need to go away. too bad i upped their CPU beyond what most people would want.  So not 'dirt cheap' now.  But still not expensive i guess.  Been debating ebaying them away, which is how i got them in the first place..   and my NVIDIA jetson crap too.  also collecting dust.   

it will run under QEMU, and they distribute a pre-built image.. At least the x86 version, i have heard of people struggling with running an ARM version that way.  I have done it myself under KVM on PVE too, using the regular ISO.

( A long way to say, you could run it at home.. )

New 9Front release out this evening.

Last time something like this happened, people were calling for government involvement/regulation.. 

Sat Apr 20 2024 11:49:02 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Some people are using the xz backdoor as an argument that the entire open source model is flawed. As if their favorite software doesn't have deliberate backdoors in the shipped version.

its a backdoor/virus all by itsself.

Mon Apr 01 2024 21:35:30 EDT from zelgomer

Have I mentioned lately that systemd sucks?

ouch, that xz issue even snuck into NetBSD pkgsrc   -> https://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-announce/2024/03/30/msg000368.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Recently, a backdoor was discovered in the xz compression library.

xz/liblzma are included as a part of NetBSD and used by the project

for distribution of new releases and packages.

The version of xz shipped in all stable (and unstable) versions of

NetBSD predates any code changes by the author of the backdoor.

NetBSD is therefore safe and unaffected by the recent discoveries.

It is believed that the attack only targets Linux/glibc, but checking

this allowed us to rule out any other attempts at compromising the

library by the author.

The version of xz shipped in pkgsrc, however, is affected. Using

xz from pkgsrc is a non-default setting on NetBSD, and requires

explicit opt-in. Most users of NetBSD will not install xz from

pkgsrc because the version from the base system is preferred.

However, users of pkgsrc on other platforms will need to take

precautions.

Regardless of NetBSD being affected or not, the discovery of the

backdoor is a wake-up call and further discussion will be happening

internally over how to proceed.

Yes hes still around. Not sure if he is doing anything tho. Would be in his 80s. 

And it should not surprise you i support micro kernel concepts. 

Sun Mar 17 2024 18:55:10 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

 

Sat Mar 16 2024 02:20:08 PM EDT from Nurb432

so, is minix development dead at this point?

I will take it one step further: is Andy Tannenbaum dead at this point or is he still kicking around telling us that microkernels are the only way to go?

He wanted Minix to be a teaching platform rather than a "real" OS.  He got his wish.  And he discovered that no one wanted a teaching platform OS any more than they wanted to write real software in LOGO.

Sat Mar 16 2024 02:20:08 PM EDT from Nurb432

so, is minix development dead at this point?

I will take it one step further: is Andy Tannenbaum dead at this point or is he still kicking around telling us that microkernels are the only way to go?

He wanted Minix to be a teaching platform rather than a "real" OS.  He got his wish.  And he discovered that no one wanted a teaching platform OS any more than they wanted to write real software in LOGO.

Sun Mar 10 2024 05:19:19 PM EDT from zelgomer

What you guys described, how do namespaces make any of that easier to implement than chroot?

"Easier" is actually the answer.  Yes, you can do the same thing with chroot + network namespace + cgroups + whatever, and then manually set up the OS image and hook things together etc.

LXC sets it all up for you, including the OS install, with one command.  If you want to do it the hard way, no one is stopping you.

Let me give you an example.  Over in the Citadel Support room someone is saying that an install fails on a particular Linux distribution on an ARM board.  I don't have that one.  But I can spin up an LXC of that distribution on my NanoPi and run the exact test, replicate the results, write a fix or a workaround, and blow it away.  Just like a virtual machine but in a fraction of the time.  If I tried that with chroot I almost certainly would not replicate the correct environment.

That was the feeling i was getting too.  A shame too. 

so, is minix development dead at this point?

Been going thru my backups ( moving files around a bit, and getting rid of stuff i really dont need... cleared out over a TB so far )  and noticed that my folder for it was pretty old.. went to update.. nope.. still really old.

I still prefer full VM... 

Ya, im old school  

at least im not alone :) 

libvirt has been known to kill my WiFi on a laptop.  ( ended up just removing it instead of fixing it..  didnt really need it on there. just virt-manager )

Wed Mar 06 2024 22:19:03 EST from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Ok I admit it, LXC doesn't suck

. I did have to remove Docker because it was messing with the iptables configuration. That's going to need some tinkering.

FreeBSD 13.3-RELEASE    out today.. ( or at least i just got the notice )

I thought Debian dropped 32 bit support anyway in the last release. 

Perhaps i was wrong

ya that is what i was thinking but its been soooooooo long.

I never really timed it, but I know it didnt take me days.

Fri Feb 02 2024 15:28:32 EST from LadySerenaKitty

Recompiling FreeBSD kernel and world only takes a few hours on older hardware.  Mere minutes on newer stuffs.

Recompiling FreeBSD kernel and world only takes a few hours on older hardware.  Mere minutes on newer stuffs.

Sometime soon when i'm bored, going to setup a box to test this, since my idea using Armbian build was a total fail. Not done a make world event over 2 decades, so i'm curious.  

it will be the basic stuff that even i would want. OS, X11, lxde, libreoffice, thonny, Clementine, Chromium, Thunderbird, VLC. Lots of dependencies there of course to give it even more to chew on..

Tue Jan 30 2024 09:21:49 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

I'll bet if your "mainstream desktop" had enough cores and you parallelized it, the whole thing might just take a couple of hours. I am often surprised by how fast builds go these days.

Ok so i was mistaken, looks like armbian build still uses some packages.  May only be recompiling the kernel and core modules. Unsure, but either way, not a fair comparison.  I do think in the past it was different. 

Sure an *entire* distro, would take a while, but i'm only talking what you have installed.

Back when i was still ding FreeBSD in the 90s, it didnt take 'days'.  and that hardware was not even in the same league as low end hardware is today.

From actual modern experience, these days building armbian from scratch with x11, gui, tools and some basic apps, perhaps a couple of hours max, using a VM ( since its picky on the OS version you use to build it on ).  I could do it this weekend and time it :) 

Fri Jan 19 2024 18:11:13 EST from LoanShark

these days, wouldn't "recompile your whole distribution from source" take days, maybe weeks on a mainstream desktop?

So you would not miss the old days when you had to DD boot sectors on your drive to get it to even start on its own?  And it was not able to self-host yet...

But, back to 'make world' its not really building the hard way, its just rebuilding everything locally. 

Sure, ti takes time, but buildworld has its advantages too, and most hardware these days can do that.. 

lol

Sat Jan 13 2024 22:24:07 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Gentoo is for people who aren't talented enough to handle Linux From Scratch
;)

I can understand the appeal of Gentoo for power users with newer computers, though, since (as far as Intel CPUs go) most pre-compiled distributions are compiled to run on anything down to and including 64-bit Pentium 4s. Ask me how I know ;)

Just installed Artix Linux on my Lenovo T410 laptop yesterday (using one of their GUI install images because I'm too lazy to do it "the Arch way"). So far I'm liking it.

Speaking of "the Arch way", I tried that a few years ago trying to install Arch Linux and just couldn't figure it out. Yet I managed to figure out and install Gentoo. People talk about Gentoo like it's the next difficulty level up from Arch, yet it was easier for me. Still got rid of it because I hated use flags.

I think this is when they officially make RISC-v a first their platform and not best-effort? Or is that 7.x?

True.   Since 386bsd is long since dead.

Sun Dec 24 2023 09:39:13 EST from darknetuser

2023-12-23 18:42 from Nurb432
Why was 'real' FreeBSD not considered? if i was going to do *bsd and
it wasn't on some old esoteric hardware, i would not think twice
about FreeBSD  

If one wants to be purist, one can say NetBSD is a real BSD...

While totally political, i would not touch OpenBSD with a 10 foot pole. Theo is an ass. Needs beat down. I dislike him even more than Pottering i think, but its at least a close tie either way... 

NetBSD, to me while not bashing it at all, is of value on oddball/old/esoteric hardware but anything for 'serious' use woudl be FreeBSD for me.  Stable, mature, documented, updated, used everywhere, and 'just works' ( in the server world anyway ).

Of course these days since i'm so removed from that world as i was forced to go back to penguin a long time ago ( GPU/WiFi drivers and such, now due to ARM/Risc-V drivers ), id just go Debian since i'm used to it now.. 

Sat Dec 23 2023 19:09:45 EST from msgrhys

Well I've tried them all in the past and I liked NetBSD and Dragonfly the most, that's all. Dragonfly to me "feels" faster than FreeBSD (hope I haven't offended the cat ;) ). For most people who just want something that works and has good documentation I think FreeBSD would be the best choice. FreeBSD has a nice handbook, whereas OpenBSD mainly just has man pages, which are not the greatest experience for non-wizards ;)

What I was really trying to ask is: Am I the only one who has noticed how slow OpenBSD is compared to the others? I suppose for some people it's worth it because of all the security features, but it's not worth it for me.

 

Sat Dec 23 2023 18:42:36 EST from Nurb432

Why was 'real' FreeBSD not considered?

 

Well I've tried them all in the past and I liked NetBSD and Dragonfly the most, that's all. Dragonfly to me "feels" faster than FreeBSD (hope I haven't offended the cat ;) ). For most people who just want something that works and has good documentation I think FreeBSD would be the best choice. FreeBSD has a nice handbook, whereas OpenBSD mainly just has man pages, which are not the greatest experience for non-wizards ;)

What I was really trying to ask is: Am I the only one who has noticed how slow OpenBSD is compared to the others? I suppose for some people it's worth it because of all the security features, but it's not worth it for me.

Sat Dec 23 2023 18:42:36 EST from Nurb432

Why was 'real' FreeBSD not considered?

sigh, i mean i would not think twice and choose FreeBSD..  i worded that really poorly..    i do wish we could edit our posts when we do stupid stuff like that.

Sat Dec 23 2023 18:42:36 EST from Nurb432

Why was 'real' FreeBSD not considered? if i was going to do *bsd and it wasn't on some old esoteric hardware, i would not think twice about FreeBSD  

Sat Dec 23 2023 16:33:03 EST from msgrhys

One of these days I'm going to try hosting a personal website from my house. The server will run a BSD, probably DragonflyBSD or NetBSD, but NOT OpenBSD. NetBSD is fast, and Dragonfly is VERY fast, but OpenBSD is just a sloth in comparison, don't you agree?

 

Why was 'real' FreeBSD not considered? if i was going to do *bsd and it wasn't on some old esoteric hardware, i would not think twice about FreeBSD  

Sat Dec 23 2023 16:33:03 EST from msgrhys

One of these days I'm going to try hosting a personal website from my house. The server will run a BSD, probably DragonflyBSD or NetBSD, but NOT OpenBSD. NetBSD is fast, and Dragonfly is VERY fast, but OpenBSD is just a sloth in comparison, don't you agree?

One of these days I'm going to try hosting a personal website from my house. The server will run a BSD, probably DragonflyBSD or NetBSD, but NOT OpenBSD. NetBSD is fast, and Dragonfly is VERY fast, but OpenBSD is just a sloth in comparison, don't you agree?

New OS build ( Debian based ) released for my Starfive V2 RISC-V. Bunch of improvements listed.....   Yay..   download....rip out current eMMC, burn it.. now it wont boot from eMMC..wtf...  read a lot. no, it still should work.  Hmm, how about ... flip switches try SD instead ( easier for me to keep burning anyway ).. that boots.   oh well, boot from SD and flip to m.2 is good enough for me for this.. and m.2 is faster than eMMC anyway.

copy to m.2, setup the 'flip' service... reboot.. works.. yay..  kick off an  update and a shell script to add add supported apps.  zzzz nap time.... eventually... yay its done...  reboot with a monitor plugged in ( was doing it remote ) GPU is now unusable.. you can watch the screen paint its sooooo slow......  really???

Grr  Frustrating.  Back into storage it goes.  

Ya about the time esxi came out, we formed a 'legit'; vmware team, so i didnt have to screw with it anymore, along with my other job ITSM dude and semi-developer.

Clearly not the same VMWare i grew up with, and supported.  They were not an oppressive authoritarian beast back then. Of course they were still an independent company.. 

And ya, docker on top of lxc is a 2nd layer, I just figured it might be worth the little bit of overhead to get the rest of the cool bells and whistles. And i agree PVE offers nothing you cant do manually, but a huge time saver isn't trivial. 

Hilariously, myself and a bunch of other people upgraded to FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE the day it hit the update servers, the official announcement came a week later.

Fri Dec 01 2023 07:15:29 EST from Nurb432

Looks like FBSD 14 is out. 

"meow"?  :)

ooo the register noticed us . ( not uncensored, but 9Front.. )

https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/01/9front_humanbiologics/

Looks like FBSD 14 is out. 

"meow"?  :)

Could one not use LXC as a docker base? Then still get all the other advantages of PVE

Only to an extent and you can always back out if you dont like it.. 

Thu Nov 23 2023 18:58:40 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

So at this point I'm still not sure about using ProxMox because it locks you into a specific way of doing things.

If you cluster with shared storage, as really intended, you dont really need backups of local server config, and it can do automated backups automatically. ( even without the backup solution they have ) . A single nag box is trivial really.. its not like it keeps nagging you as you work or anything else to get in the way, or "this critical piece of functionality to make it worth while is an Enterprise feature" crap that so many other fake OSS projects have... its just at login.  And people have removed it. There is a way.

And ya, its not perfect ( but what is ? ) and you could do everything by hand.. but why? 

Once nice thing about their backup serer instead of shared storage, is you can use it to move things between clusters almost pain free.    Just disconnect, take it to your other location, attach to the other cluster. poof, backups of vms + their configs are there to restore. Great for total disaster if you dont want to link your cluster across sites.

Ya, im a fan, i fully admit that. I was using that OSS version of the citrix xen stuff, until they started having issues when citrix started to cut off features downstream that were open ( really? ass-hats )..  Ran across PVE as i was looking for alternatives short of doing it by hand, tried it, and loved it. Replaced all my clients farms with it and never looked back ( tho i hear the oss citrix project has gotten past all the hurdles since then. good for them )

Thu Nov 23 2023 18:39:25 EST from darknetuser

It is not super-duper groundbreaking, but it has a big advantage in that it places all your junk behind a single control panel. You may have a bunch of nodes runing independent virtual machines and LXC containers and still manage them all from the same interface. That is kind of cool because the setup is quite fast for what you get.

Also, their starred backup solution is quite complete for the price. It reminds me of a Restic for virtual machines.

The downsides? No nativeblock-device encryption, no automated backups for the host configuration, and the startup window nagging you to purchase support every time you log in. Also no native UPS integration. You can solve all of those manually. Oh, also the firewall subsystem sucks because changes to the firewall in a VM require you to restart the VM.

Yes its been around forever.  They do commercial OSS the right way.

"here, use it, its yours.. If want guaranteed support, pay us"

Thu Nov 23 2023 15:39:25 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

I keep not doing Proxmox because it seems too good to be true. I feel like if I start relying on it, it will be discontinued, so I keep going with bare Linux and putting all the other stuff on top of it.

But now it's been what ... 20 years? And people love this thing.

Proxmox update out too.. 

Supports native software defined networking in the GUI.   Cool.

Latest 9Front released late last night. 

Geez, the way it was described it was like end of world insults.. that is borderline lame.

Ah, so that's what the Clown World press of the Linux world was referring to as "hate speech".

lol

Ubuntu latest release had to be pulled since they didnt bother to review, and some pin-head snuck in a bunch of obscene Ukrainian translations,.

lol

lol

We will see.  I cant even count the times i have heard this with public figures, just to make us feel better.  They had to explain why they were sick, but never really let you know how bad. Their egos get in the way

I give him until summer and it will 'unexpectedly' turn for the worse.. and by fall hes gone.

Sun Oct 01 2023 18:39:33 EDT from zelgomer

2023-09-30 23:09 from Nurb432 <nurb432@uncensored.citadel.org>
Didn't read all the details but seems RMS is dying of cancer. Wont be
here much longer.

Probably should have read the details. RMS has shared that he has cancer, but prognosis looks good.

Didn't read all the details but seems RMS is dying of cancer. Wont be here much longer.

That is one of the reasons i hated to go back to penguin when i did ( drivers ).

Sat Sep 23 2023 00:26:01 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I think there's a different attitude among people who run FreeBSD. 

FreeBSD had its 30th birthday this year.  For 30 years FreeBSD has used the same rc system, with some impurrovements along the way.  For 30 years, most sysadmin tasks have not changed.

Thu Sep 21 2023 09:11:03 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

You could say the same thing for xinetd. What was wrong with inetd? You could say the same for SysV init. What was wrong with /etc/inittab and /etc/rc?
I feel like we've gone through that already; I know some people don't care for systemd but I like it.

Can't halp without "ifconfig -a" and "netstat -rn"

Sat Sep 09 2023 23:08:45 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I've got a weird problem, and I can't tell whether it's my environment or something weird with FreeBSD.

I moved my FreeBSD installation from a private network to one of my "real" IP addresses. Changed the IP address, couldn't communicate with anything.
So I blew it away and started fresh. Still no dice.

It's a regular IPv4 adddress (72.0.224.94/29, gateway 72.0.224.89) and I've tried it both with and without an accompanying IPv6 address. Several attempts at installation. In every instance, I can ping everything in the world -- hosts on the same network, hosts on the Internet, hosts back at my house over VPN -- but I can't make a TCP or UDP connection to anything.

Thinking it had to be my hosting environment, I spun up a Linux on the same IP address, no problem at all.

What gives? Is there something Beastie does not trust about public IPv4 addresses and throws up a firewall or something?

I had not seen that.  

That is too bad.

Not saying the old init system was perfect. But I had 2 main beefs with SystemD ( well 3, if you include who was doing it . i hate Lennart as much as i hate Gates, for similar technical reasons )

1 - When you have a working system that isn't 'bad' , but isn't 'perfect' you fix up what is there, dont toss it out just to pretend you are special.   Paint the old house, dont rebuild it from scratch.

2 - All the extra stuff that was tacked on to it "just because we can" ( and to help with the virus like lock-in mentality ). Almost becoming its own kernel ( ok exaggerating a little.  a little ) 

My issue was the walled garden they were building, off the backs of the Debian team. I could see that from day one. And extensions they pushed when base Debian was trying to avoid it ( still pissed about systemD )

Tue Sep 05 2023 09:29:39 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

For the record, I have no objection to Ubuntu. They had a more polished end user experience for quite a long time. But now everything has sort of caught up and is in a good steady-state, and I like the idea of being more baseline.

Mon Sep 04 2023 10:41:49 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I'm not the kind of person who constantly rebuilds machines, so I build for long term steady state. And for this round, I decided to ditch Ubuntu and go back to regular Debian.

Been meaning to do this for a while now, so you just cemented the decision when it actually happens.

Going to the hardware store today, pulled out my little tape measure to take with me.  Tho its mostly worn off since its been my 'go-to' measure, it used to say "FreeBSD foundation" on the back.  Sort of forgot that since its been so long. Small round semi-transparent purple thing.

i forget which conference i got it from, and since hardly anyone has conferences anymore.. doubt ill ever see another.

Not that im a fan of crowds, or flying ( DHS.. such a hassle ). but when they were close enough to drive to it was a nice change in scenery  for a few days, on the company dime. I used to be the "traveling IT guy".. drove about 2k miles a week in the old days, sometimes overnight stay if things ran late, but that was different than going and parking yourself somewhere for a few days for 'work related' but not  actually 'work'. 

I think about that often, actually.  64 bits is an awful lot of address space.  Even the current crop of 64-bit AMD chips are only  using 48 bits of virtual address space, with a set of rules governing how it is used so that the remaining space may be cleanly added in the future.

They actually had to make it two x 47-bit virtual address spaces because of Windows.  Their stupid kernel reserves the top half for the kernel and the bottom half for userspace.

So in practice the maximum addressable virtual memory is 2^47, oor 128 TB.  Maybe it's twice that on non-windows systems if they let you use the top half.  As an experiment, I just put together the following little program:

#include <stdlib.h>
#include <unistd.h>
#include <string.h>
#include <stdio.h>

void stacko(int baz) {
	char *sta = "static string";
	char *dyn = malloc(10);
	strcpy(dyn, "bar");

	printf(" Static: %p\n", sta);
	printf("Dynamic: %p\n", dyn);
	printf("  Stack: %p\n", &baz);
}

int main(int *argc, char **argv) {
	stacko(12345);
	exit(0);
}

The objective was to see what kind of address ranges the system would use for static values, memory allocated on the heap, and items passed up the stack.  Here is the output: 

Static: 0x55a55898e004
Dynamic: 0x55a559d9b2a0
  Stack: 0x7ffddcbcf56c

 As you can see, the static and heap memory was somewhere in the middle, the stack was way up top, but both were in the 00000000'00000000 to 00007FFF'FFFFFFFF range, suggesting a 47-bit address space, at least from the point of view of what is visible by a single process.  This example ran on a Linux operating system, which uses the Linux kernel, running on genuine AMD64 hardware (not an Intel clone).

The one consolation is i dont see 'generic' 64 bit being phased out in our lifetime. 

if it does happen, its to a totally different concept. ( such as quantum chips or 100% GPU or something radical.  )

That's the plan!  The usage of 32-bit machines is no longer worth the effort in maintaining support for them.  The only reason it wasn't ripped out of 14.x is because people were still using 32-bit machines with the 14.0-CURRENT branch.  This was discussed months ago.  15.x won't be having any 32-bit support and that can be done because the 15.x branches haven't been made yet.

Sat Aug 26 2023 11:18:41 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Wait what? 14 isn't even out yet. Will 14 be the last version supporting 32-bit?

And after another drive freak out on my desktop this morning, shoved in a 250g, loaded it up. Booting fine.  Moved my home folder off the previous drive ( its fine.. its the machines, but if im doing this, i wanted ti make it JUST data. ) to an external SSD, via USB3.   This was after 2 hours of copy across USB .. again..  but at least no more of that nonsense. and why i went this route.. im tired of doing this. Might move it to NAS later, or just keep it physical so i can take it with me.

( these things just cant do huge SSD reliably and have stuff like this stupid ass keyboard plugged in at the same time. its a power thing ) 

Preview of 14 is out.

And while i dont pretend to be the expert our resident cat is, that is what im reading. 

Sat Aug 26 2023 11:18:41 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Wait what? 14 isn't even out yet. Will 14 be the last version supporting 32-bit?

Ooo  FBSD 15.  No 32 bit architectures..

1.5 TB Linux disk.. to image... back to disk.  via usb external...

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Berkeley Software Distribution.  Sometimes called Berkeley Unix.  Currently there are 3 main BSD projects - FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD.  Others, like DragonflyBSD, GhostBSD, TrueNAS, et al, are forks or downstream projects from one of the main trio (usually FreeBSD).

Fri Aug 11 2023 11:18:58 EDT from LoanShark

What's BSD?

Hang on let me get some popcorn before Kitty eats you alive.

:)  

Fri Aug 11 2023 11:18:58 AM EDT from LoanShark

2023-08-02 15:37 from LadySerenaKitty
Since FreeBSD 6.x, teh default place for home folders is /usr/home,
and /home has been a symlink to /usr/home.

What's BSD?

i know its been tried, but we need an iCPU protocol too, now that network speeds are decent enough to do it i think. 

iSCSI is kinda the industry standard.  It's SCSI over IP.  Both Target (server) and Initiator (client) mode are supported in FreeBSD base.

Speaking of FreeBSD, only base lives outside of /usr/local.  If you installed any softwares either through Ports, pkg, or plain old "download and build in my home folder", all of it is installed to /usr/local.  Keeps softwares isolated from base.

Fri Aug 04 2023 22:00:26 EDT from nonservator

Not to derail but I had a lot of fun with ATA over Ethernet - what sort of similar offerings are current?

Not to derail but I had a lot of fun with ATA over Ethernet - what sort of similar offerings are current?

I had forgot about that. Ya i did that too in some cases to avoid installing the same exact things on several boxes. 

Then some fool came out with /opt.... 

Wed Aug 02 2023 05:23:27 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I think the original point of /usr was that you could mount it read-only and/or have it shared between multiple machines.

Since FreeBSD 6.x, teh default place for home folders is /usr/home, and /home has been a symlink to /usr/home.

For a while, i had my home directories pointed to a single NFS share ( like we are talking about ) BUT the share was physically an external drive hanging off the NAS server..  So worse case i could yank it and take it with me.

But as time went on, i stopped using more than one machine that needed 'all the stuff' ( for various reasons )..   So that went away and a simple weekly backup of my directory in case my main machine catches fire is good enough.,

I don't have a /home on my machine.  I used to have it, it was a symlink to /usr/home.  I have since deleted it.

Tue Aug 01 2023 17:52:58 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Ah, the old tradition of sharing /home across every machine, keeping your data right there at your fingertips without resorting to silly replication tricks.

All of the g-drive and one-drive people really missed out on that.

It actually has 2 connectors for disks.  You get cables that connect to these, and the cables have 16 SAS/SATA connectors on the other ends.

I'm thinking the pool setup will be as follows:

zroot -> NVMe

litterbox -> massive storage array

most datasets will be on zroot, since FreeBSD ... but /usr/home will be on litterbox.  A number of stuff on my laptop is also going to get moved over to the litterbox, like all the stuff for IRIX and MacOS 8.  Then I'll be able to disable NFS and AFP on my laptop.

Thu Jul 27 2023 19:20:20 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

32 connectors on one card ... yowza

I've built a few like that, and you're making a lot of good choices:
* Separate boot drive (this is actually the one place I'd still use hardware disk mirroring)
* Software "raid"
* No partitioning

Some people really freak out at that last one. But why bother with partitions when your volume manager or multi disk filesystem can do it for you? Some people say "if there is no partition table then you have no way of knowing the disk is in use" but I think those people deserve to lose their data.

This is especially true with virtual machines because the host's virtual disk manager *is* your volume manager. My typical layout goes something like this:
* Disk 0: GPT with an EFI partition (because the ROM insists on it; can't go raw with EFI partition)
* Disk 1: swap (raw on the disk)
* Disk 2: root (raw on the disk)

If root needs to get bigger, you just make the virtual

You forfeit one punch in your geek card :) 

Wed Jul 26 2023 07:41:12 PM EDT from zelgomer Subject: Re: X = X ?

Woah! I thought I recognized it from somewhere, but failed to make the connection.

Just noticed it has a fake SATA port on it too..   ( fake = usb to sata )

No but i could add more nodes until im blue in the face.  I think i can get up to 8TB on a m.2 ssd.  Not that i could afford or rationalize it.. but being a cluster its brain dead easy to add more space to it. Plug it into the network, run a command to add it to the pool, poof more storage.

And if i wanted to go larger. sata options do of course exist. But part of this is its tiny, inexpensive and very low power requirements. Board is same size as an RPI.

Wed Jul 26 2023 04:43:28 PM EDT from LadySerenaKitty

But that's not going to give you ungodly amounts of storage.

Wed Jul 26 2023 16:05:33 EDT from Nurb432

That is ironic in a way.

I'm about order several ( 5 ) tiny ARM boards that have m.2 sockets on them to build a ceph cluster out of. Going to opt for boards that also have wifi ( just so i have more options if i want it )..  About 30 bucks each, not including the m.2

Will build/print a small 6" rack to put them in. A small 5 port switch embedded in the top and a PS at the bottom.

Will end up being bare armbian + ceph software ( which runs on python.. )

 

But that's not going to give you ungodly amounts of storage.

Wed Jul 26 2023 16:05:33 EDT from Nurb432

That is ironic in a way.

I'm about order several ( 5 ) tiny ARM boards that have m.2 sockets on them to build a ceph cluster out of. Going to opt for boards that also have wifi ( just so i have more options if i want it )..  About 30 bucks each, not including the m.2

Will build/print a small 6" rack to put them in. A small 5 port switch embedded in the top and a PS at the bottom.

Will end up being bare armbian + ceph software ( which runs on python.. )

That is ironic in a way.

I'm about order several ( 5 ) tiny ARM boards that have m.2 sockets on them to build a ceph cluster out of. Going to opt for boards that also have wifi ( just so i have more options if i want it )..  About 30 bucks each, not including the m.2

Will build/print a small 6" rack to put them in. A small 5 port switch embedded in the top and a PS at the bottom.

Will end up being bare armbian + ceph software ( which runs on python.. )

I am emmeowing on a new server project.  I am building a storage server.  Looking at getting a new Adaptec HBA card.  The HBA 1200-32i that can attach up to 32 drives, and it supports mixed-mode arrays with SAS and SATA.  I'm going all SATA because SAS be expensive!  24x 4TB SATA SSDs, 96TB raw storage, 80TB usable storage with ZFS.  Ya, I'm getting the HBA card first, it be expensive.

The rest of the server will be commodity-grade stuffs, so a Ryzen 7000 series with 96GB memory.  Yes, it's gonna run FreeBSD.  No, FreeBSD will not be installed on the storage array, it'll have its own NVMe.  All the drives in the array will be directly added to ZFS, so no partitioning will be done.

I mentioned that same thing over on Twitter/X.

Wed Jul 26 2023 09:14:20 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: X = X ?

Has anyone noticed that the new logo for "X" (the new name for Twitter) looks suspiciously like the logo for "X" (the X Window System) ?

2099351515@Uncensored

I saw a blurb go across my news feed yesterday , not exact words but in general: "thousands have claim to musk's new logo that was given to him by a fan"

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099351499Wed, 26 Jul 2023 13:14:20 -00002099351499@Uncensored

Has anyone noticed that the new logo for "X" (the new name for Twitter) looks suspiciously like the logo for "X" (the X Window System) ?

2099350481@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099350402Sun, 16 Jul 2023 00:50:27 -00002099350402@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099350381Sat, 15 Jul 2023 20:51:34 -00002099350381@Uncensored

I had forgot they were tied to mono. Yes, that does earn them a dislike. 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099350369Sat, 15 Jul 2023 20:30:36 -00002099350369@Uncensored May you ellaborate so we young people may learn something? Introducing GNOME at a time when KDE was poised to absolutely unify the Linux desktop -- yes, that was the big one everyone knows about. "Mono" was another -- bringing Microsoft technologies in to distort a world that already had Java and Python etc. "Hula" was the worst, because it resulted from a bunch of conversations about how to build a category-killer groupware server after which they tried to do it on their own. That project thankfully crashed and burned. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099350345Sat, 15 Jul 2023 16:50:07 -00002099350345@Uncensored

GNOME.

And not so sure it was that big of a deal personally.  

Sat Jul 15 2023 12:37:50 PM EDT from darknetuser Subject: Re: A big, blue, "f**k off" to the Linux community

May you ellaborate so we young people may learn something?

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099350344Sat, 15 Jul 2023 16:48:45 -00002099350344@Uncensored

Its hard to say really.  The driving force behind BSD is different than Linux. Both in structure and expectations.

I guess when i reboot the simulation after the war starts this time ill have to delete a bit of code so that Linus never is born. Don't want to prevent Tanenbaum as he is too important in other fields ( like RISC ).. ( since Linus started with Minix that would be an easy stop if it never happened, but no, I dont want to screw up too much of the timeline ) 

Sat Jul 15 2023 12:37:19 PM EDT from darknetuser Subject: Re: A big, blue, "f**k off" to the Linux community

There are a lot i could go after.:)

I would also yell at AT&T for trying to kill *BSD too.. But then
again, if they didnt, we may not be talking about Linux today.   

My bet is BSD would have become what Linux is today, so the point is moot.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099350338Sat, 15 Jul 2023 16:37:50 -00002099350338@Uncensored If you're going to go after people for fragmentation, you should go >after the two most 100% Hitler Equivalent people ever to set foot in >the open source community: Miguel de Icaza and Nat Friedman. Those two >did more to delay the success of Linux and open source than even >Richard Marx Stallman did. > May you ellaborate so we young people may learn something? ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099350337Sat, 15 Jul 2023 16:37:19 -00002099350337@UncensoredThere are a lot i could go after.:) > >I would also yell at AT&T for trying to kill *BSD too.. But then >again, if they didnt, we may not be talking about Linux today.    My bet is BSD would have become what Linux is today, so the point is moot. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099348186Wed, 28 Jun 2023 23:25:59 -00002099348186@Uncensored

There are a lot i could go after.:)

I would also yell at AT&T for trying to kill *BSD too.. But then again, if they didnt, we may not be talking about Linux today.   

Wed Jun 28 2023 04:21:42 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: A big, blue, "f**k off" to the Linux community

I guess them coming up with their package manager and fragmenting
that part of the community future annoyed me.  

If you're going to go after people for fragmentation, you should go after the two most 100% Hitler Equivalent people ever to set foot in the open source community: Miguel de Icaza and Nat Friedman. Those two did more to delay the success of Linux and open source than even Richard Marx Stallman did.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099348165Wed, 28 Jun 2023 20:21:42 -00002099348165@UncensoredI guess them coming up with their package manager and fragmenting >that part of the community future annoyed me.   If you're going to go after people for fragmentation, you should go after the two most 100% Hitler Equivalent people ever to set foot in the open source community: Miguel de Icaza and Nat Friedman. Those two did more to delay the success of Linux and open source than even Richard Marx Stallman did. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099348162Wed, 28 Jun 2023 18:31:27 -00002099348162@Uncensored

Oddly, i was never a fan or RH, even in the beginning, before they went sideways.

I guess them coming up with their package manager and fragmenting that part of the community future annoyed me.  

Wed Jun 28 2023 12:46:01 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: A big, blue, "f**k off" to the Linux community

Linux itself is fine; it is Red Hat that is self-destructing. No change for me; I stopped using Red Hat variants as my daily driver 12 years ago.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099348160Wed, 28 Jun 2023 18:26:06 -00002099348160@Uncensored

I do agree, in general its a better community.

It was one thing i dreaded when i had to go back to penguin.  

Wed Jun 28 2023 01:50:57 PM EDT from LadySerenaKitty

I use FreeBSD.  Beastie is cute.  The FreeBSD Commewnity is full of cool people.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099348154Wed, 28 Jun 2023 17:50:57 -00002099348154@Uncensored

I use FreeBSD.  Beastie is cute.  The FreeBSD Commewnity is full of cool people.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099348150Wed, 28 Jun 2023 16:46:01 -00002099348150@UncensoredSomeone said Haiku looks like the current best option for an >alternative daily driver. Linux itself is fine; it is Red Hat that is self-destructing. No change for me; I stopped using Red Hat variants as my daily driver 12 years ago. Linus himself is kind of an asshole, but he's doing his job so he gets a pass. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099348141Wed, 28 Jun 2023 14:27:45 -00002099348141@Uncensored

That is basically BeOS...  So there will be more limitations for hardware and software support.

Enough to make it not usable for the average Joe? Donno.. not touched Be since 4.0 on PPC.. 

Wed Jun 28 2023 10:09:57 AM EDT from nonservator Subject: Re: A big, blue, "f**k off" to the Linux community

Someone said Haiku looks like the current best option for an alternative daily driver.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099348134Wed, 28 Jun 2023 14:09:57 -00002099348134@Uncensored

Someone said Haiku looks like the current best option for an alternative daily driver.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099348126Wed, 28 Jun 2023 12:20:47 -00002099348126@Uncensored

Are you saying its got a rocky future? :)

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099348079Tue, 27 Jun 2023 23:22:42 -00002099348079@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099348048Tue, 27 Jun 2023 16:47:17 -00002099348048@Uncensored

My guess is steam and emulation.  Im not a gamer, but I dont think there are a lot of native games out there ( a few... but not mainstream style )

Tue Jun 27 2023 10:59:20 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

windows, I went with Linux...  and I've gotta say, the Nobara distro
is absolutely AMAZING for gaming.  I'm thoroughly impressed.

Linux games? Steam for Linux? Or does it run Windows games under automation?

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099348047Tue, 27 Jun 2023 16:46:10 -00002099348047@Uncensored

We all saw that coming long before RedHat became BlueHat.  They just didnt have the power to pull it off.

Keeping my feelings about Pottering out, i dont trust Ubuntu as a entity. They are slowly moving the same direction of walled gardens ( snap, paid updates .. etc ). Eventually they will close the walls too. But, they are just a bastardized flavor of Debian with add-ons. Why not just use Debian instead? ( not being sarcastic there, being serious. Why not just cut out the middleman and go to the source?) .  I understand something like Proxmox which gives you things of true value that would be a pain to reproduce yourself, but Ubuntu, nothing you cant *easily* do yourself if you wanted that piece.

But as this stuff happens, it does make one reconsider just doing it yourself. ( LFS, Build root, etc )

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099348033Tue, 27 Jun 2023 15:15:13 -00002099348033@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099348032Tue, 27 Jun 2023 14:59:20 -00002099348032@Uncensoredwindows, I went with Linux...  and I've gotta say, the Nobara distro >is absolutely AMAZING for gaming.  I'm thoroughly impressed. Linux games? Steam for Linux? Or does it run Windows games under automation? ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099347938Mon, 26 Jun 2023 15:11:16 -00002099347938@Uncensored

Can always roll your own. I have kicked that around so many times my toes hurt.

Of course unless you are code-god you will still rely on other's work for stuff you include.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099347934Mon, 26 Jun 2023 14:42:12 -00002099347934@Uncensored 2023-06-23 17:36 from zelgomer > > 2023-06-10 17:11 from Nurb432 > >So i see Debian Bookworm is officially released. > > > > This post prompted me to finally start upgrading machines to Bullseye >today. Man, I'm lazy. Didn't realize how long I've procrastinated this. > > > With the direction Linux distributions are taking as of late, my tendency is to leave anything that isn't exposed to unstrusted parties unupgraded. So no shame leaving Debian unupgraded for long. In fact there are complaints that LTS/Extended support in Debian is actually a bit better than the official one since it comes from actual vendors hahahaha ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099347895Sun, 25 Jun 2023 22:55:35 -00002099347895@Uncensored

9Front. New release this evening.

"dont touch the artwork"

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099347877Sun, 25 Jun 2023 15:47:52 -00002099347877@Uncensored

So, my old computer was intermittently giving me the blue screen.  So I decided to build my new computer from scratch instead of doing my normal routine of buying a refurb and frankensteining it with parts salvaged from previous computers.  Instead of paying for windows, I went with Linux...  and I've gotta say, the Nobara distro is absolutely AMAZING for gaming.  I'm thoroughly impressed.

 

 

- Tumblefluff the Squirrel

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099347788Fri, 23 Jun 2023 21:41:49 -00002099347788@Uncensored

Well at least you didnt just catch up to squeeze.... and are only one version behind release :)

Fri Jun 23 2023 05:36:45 PM EDT from zelgomer

2023-06-10 17:11 from Nurb432 <nurb432@uncensored.citadel.org>
So i see Debian Bookworm is officially released. 

This post prompted me to finally start upgrading machines to Bullseye today. Man, I'm lazy. Didn't realize how long I've procrastinated this.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099347786Fri, 23 Jun 2023 21:36:45 -00002099347786@Uncensored 2023-06-10 17:11 from Nurb432 >So i see Debian Bookworm is officially released.  > This post prompted me to finally start upgrading machines to Bullseye today. Man, I'm lazy. Didn't realize how long I've procrastinated this. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099347291Sat, 17 Jun 2023 23:15:23 -00002099347291@Uncensored

Well this was a new one.

Debian 12, pre-release install, upgraded to current a couple of days ago ( not today )

• Wanted to get some files off of one of my external non-powered spinny disk drives, but was not being seen, at all. Threw it in the trash after messing with things for a bit. ( tore it apart, different sata-usb adapter, bla bla ) annoyed and surprised since its off-line most of its life, but hey, it happens so i move on with my day.
• Its the weekend and getting towards dinner time, so time to backup.  Plugged in another ( powered this time ) spinny disk, did my backup.  Then plugged in its backup to mirror it to, same exact model.. ( ya. i have 2.. im paranoid :) ) and it didnt recognize it..  wtf!
• Confused as hell, i swapped ports. now neither work.. even the one i just used..  panic.. swap back.. still nothing..  
• reboot.. still no dice. figured hosed the internal usb hub somehow ( yet keyboard and mouse was working off other ports.. so doubtful )
• As a test, they see flash and SSD externals.  ( even lsub wont show the spinny devices and dmesg, nothing )
• Desperation time, shoved one onto a server. it works..  shove the second it works.. arrgh.. dig out the other from the trash..  the SOB works on the server too...
• Reboot with a live USB..  it sees all 3...  really????

Reformat, reload. works again.  

 

Never ever seen this sort of nonsense before. 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099347242Sat, 17 Jun 2023 12:47:14 -00002099347242@Uncensored

i believe its only code .. that is when they dont feel like hoarding it in their walled garden instead.  

Sat Jun 17 2023 08:09:42 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I wonder how much funding Canonical gives to Debian? Or if they just participate by doing development and just push their work upstream?

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099347240Sat, 17 Jun 2023 12:09:42 -00002099347240@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099346455Sat, 10 Jun 2023 17:11:43 -00002099346455@Uncensored

So i see Debian Bookworm is officially released. 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099346454Sat, 10 Jun 2023 17:10:51 -00002099346454@Uncensored

Really most people should, especially companies ( and he sort of is one since his purpose in life is to manage kernel commits ).. They should just make their widgets and go home.

Sat Jun 10 2023 11:57:16 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Linus should stick to software and not get involved in social issues, 

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099346448Sat, 10 Jun 2023 15:57:16 -00002099346448@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099346341Fri, 09 Jun 2023 18:52:38 -00002099346341@Uncensored

A lot of people are not fans of Linus. 

He often acts like a self righteous prick. Not uncommon behavior for those sorts of folks in the industry but does not excuse it.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099346337Fri, 09 Jun 2023 18:41:31 -00002099346337@Uncensored

What a loser!

Fri Jun 09 2023 07:47:37 EDT from nonservator

https://kotakuinaction2.win/p/16bPV4q1qS/linux-inventor-linus-torvalds-te/c/

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099346299Fri, 09 Jun 2023 11:47:37 -00002099346299@Uncensored

https://kotakuinaction2.win/p/16bPV4q1qS/linux-inventor-linus-torvalds-te/c/

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099345671Tue, 06 Jun 2023 12:12:57 -00002099345671@Uncensored

Kids these days. 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099345602Tue, 06 Jun 2023 00:55:06 -00002099345602@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099345534Mon, 05 Jun 2023 14:17:37 -00002099345534@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099345527Mon, 05 Jun 2023 13:37:46 -00002099345527@Uncensored 2023-06-03 11:20 from IGnatius T Foobar >Wayland needs to happen. X11 has been limped along admirably but it >absolutely has to go. X11 is just a proxy server for an external Yup. Like a lot of things in Linux it is proceeding... at a glacial pace. It's finally possible to run Wayland on Nvidia on Ubuntu 22.04, but Firefox's `gfxtest` (or whatever that's called) segfaults and it falls back to software rasterization. Looks like there have already been some updates throughout the stack in Ubuntu 22.10/23.04 but I stick to LTS versions because I can't afford to break my dev environment for the office. So, "works" and "works well" are still two different things, and I'll probably be staying on X11 for another year. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099345525Mon, 05 Jun 2023 13:12:57 -00002099345525@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099345238Sat, 03 Jun 2023 16:02:35 -00002099345238@Uncensored

Or.. i could go back to vSTA + MGR.

Way ahead of its time.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099345237Sat, 03 Jun 2023 15:59:33 -00002099345237@Uncensored

if it gets too bad i will go to Rio and flip them all the bird. 

Couple more years, i could just drop off line totally. burn every bit of computer i have, even my phone. Wont need any of it.

in 10 i bet everyone does and it will be glorious ( in my best Klingon grunt voice ). ( thinking of Transcendence, great prediction of a movie if you have not seen it )

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099345230Sat, 03 Jun 2023 15:20:22 -00002099345230@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099345124Fri, 02 Jun 2023 19:54:05 -00002099345124@Uncensored

i fixed that for you.

 

Fri Jun 02 2023 02:44:40 PM EDT from LoanShark

 Wayland is an epic fail 

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099345112Fri, 02 Jun 2023 18:44:40 -00002099345112@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099343641Mon, 22 May 2023 16:45:46 -00002099343641@Uncensored

FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE is coming out soon-ish.  Word on the street is boot is significantly faster.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099338631Wed, 03 May 2023 13:31:00 -00002099338631@Uncensored

Everything with NVIDIA is a pain in the neck.

Wed May 03 2023 07:24:18 AM EDT from LoanShark

what the hell is going on with NVidia's proprietary driver.

Documented module parameters do not actually exist, so can't enable GSP mode on the closed-source kernel model and can't enable the Unsupported GPUs flag on the open driver.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099338622Wed, 03 May 2023 12:54:23 -00002099338622@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099338615Wed, 03 May 2023 11:24:18 -00002099338615@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099337764Wed, 26 Apr 2023 23:36:16 -00002099337764@Uncensoredwe had #1 ..  And worse than RH: "you must use oracle if you want to >use Linux on our network" that sounds so much like an early-aughts mentality, from back when people didn't trust Linux. thankfully, the world has (mostly) changed. with the possible exception of some old shops that didn't get the memo ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099336821Sat, 22 Apr 2023 17:10:33 -00002099336821@Uncensored

Cant say its true now as i dont work with that team, but at one point we had #1 ..  And worse than RH: "you must use oracle if you want to use Linux on our network"

 

I always wondered if it was one of 

• Kickbacks, either current or future. ( remember where i work, a LOT is driven by that )
• Lack of understanding
• Some sort of backdoor mandate by Oracle to squelch competition since we had lots of their DBs and app-servers.. 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099336800Sat, 22 Apr 2023 16:22:37 -00002099336800@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099335125Mon, 17 Apr 2023 19:24:17 -00002099335125@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099335124Mon, 17 Apr 2023 19:14:50 -00002099335124@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099334120Tue, 11 Apr 2023 17:35:40 -00002099334120@Uncensored

I did, and swore by it for years, until i started running into troubles with WiFi.  Then CUDA bit me in the ass next.. and i ended up in the Linux camp as i got tired of fighting with things.  

And while i know FBSD has VM kernel tech now too its hard to beat the Proxmox front end for my VM hosts..

Tue Apr 11 2023 01:14:53 PM EDT from LadySerenaKitty

I'm a FreeBSD kitty.  Using FreeBSD as a daily driver is quite nice, y'all should try it sometime.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099334117Tue, 11 Apr 2023 17:14:53 -00002099334117@Uncensored

I'm a FreeBSD kitty.  Using FreeBSD as a daily driver is quite nice, y'all should try it sometime.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099334110Tue, 11 Apr 2023 16:23:37 -00002099334110@Uncensored

Yes, *bsd is ok too. Same concept, community driven, not corporate driven.  Just the subject was Linux so i stuck with Linux in my statement.  And while i'm stuck in the penguin world now due to drivers and some semi-proprietary stuff and just the reality of hardware support ( NVIDIA and CUDA for starters ) i was a huge BSD user decades ago, and still a fan.

 

And not that companies being involved in a project has to be bad by default, just they cant 'drive' the project.

( That said: OpenBSD, i dislike Theo and dont trust him with his unstable attitude )

Tue Apr 11 2023 11:48:16 AM EDT from darknetuser

2023-04-10 19:40 from Nurb432
Or one can just use Debian, which is not driven by corporate greed. 

I keep deploying more and more OpenBSDs around here. However, Linux distributions which have long support cycles are attractive for a number of tasks. A system with 10 years of supported updates sounds nice work workstations because you set them once and you don't have to worry about the machines anymore. The hard drives will crash before you have to upgrade. For workstations used for running one or two core applications a shot-and-forget solution sounds very nice to me.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099334101Tue, 11 Apr 2023 15:48:16 -00002099334101@Uncensored 2023-04-10 19:40 from Nurb432 >Or one can just use Debian, which is not driven by corporate greed.  I keep deploying more and more OpenBSDs around here. However, Linux distributions which have long support cycles are attractive for a number of tasks. A system with 10 years of supported updates sounds nice work workstations because you set them once and you don't have to worry about the machines anymore. The hard drives will crash before you have to upgrade. For workstations used for running one or two core applications a shot-and-forget solution sounds very nice to me. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099334017Mon, 10 Apr 2023 23:40:55 -00002099334017@Uncensored

Or one can just use Debian, which is not driven by corporate greed. 

Fri Apr 07 2023 10:25:56 AM EDT from fandarel

Well, I know what to get him for GravMas now.

But I definitely agree - IBM Hat keeps moving closer and closer to just giving the bits away for free. Last I looked, businesses could run up to 6 RHEL servers at no charge with no support. I'd really like to see them move to the Ubuntu-ish model, but without the kind of naggy crap Ubuntu has been dropping in /etc/motd lately.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099333998Mon, 10 Apr 2023 21:24:31 -00002099333998@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099333495Fri, 07 Apr 2023 14:25:56 -00002099333495@Uncensoredsystem (and yes, Linux *is* an operating system; Stallman can go beat >and stab himself with a hammer and sickle) it doesn't make sense to >have a closed distribution. Well, I know what to get him for GravMas now. But I definitely agree - IBM Hat keeps moving closer and closer to just giving the bits away for free. Last I looked, businesses could run up to 6 RHEL servers at no charge with no support. I'd really like to see them move to the Ubuntu-ish model, but without the kind of naggy crap Ubuntu has been dropping in /etc/motd lately. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099333335Thu, 06 Apr 2023 21:54:12 -00002099333335@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099333286Thu, 06 Apr 2023 16:46:21 -00002099333286@Uncensored 2023-04-06 11:28 from fandarel >Hate to say it, but I really don't trust the CloudLinux folks that are >behind AlmaLinux. And I wish I could explain why, just something about >how they've presented the project and how they are moving forward >strikes me as off. No such bad vibes about Rocky Linux. That said, >I've been using Debian for so long for everything outside of $DAYJOB >that I'm unlikely to change. But maybe I can persuade $DAYJOB to give >Rocky a try over Ubuntu. We have a pile of Ubuntu 18.04 that I need to >either upgrade or move to something else soon. > > Thanks for the comment. According to the link I posted, Rocky is something Kurtzer's people had been working on as a contingence plan in case of a CentOScalypse (since his company sold services based on CentOS) at the time IBM bought Red Hat. It reminds me of the Paizo case. Paizo was a publisher of RPG modules that sold adventure modules for Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 under license. When the next Dungeons and Dragons was released in such a way that 3rd party publishers could not release modules for it, Paizo decided to publish their own Dungeons and Dragons clone so they could keep selling adventure modules for it. You can see a trend here. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099333273Thu, 06 Apr 2023 15:28:02 -00002099333273@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099333251Thu, 06 Apr 2023 13:45:13 -00002099333251@Uncensored Now a question: why do you think Rocky Linux has become the heir of >CentOS instead of, say, Alma Linux? That's easy. When IBM announced that they were making CentOS useless by turning it into another Fedora instead of a guaranteed binary-compatible respin of Red Hat Enterprise Linux, the new project Rocky Linux was started by Gregory Kurtzer. He was one of the original founders of CentOS. The other founder was the late Rocky McGaugh. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099332550Mon, 03 Apr 2023 17:24:01 -00002099332550@Uncensored 2023-04-03 12:33 from IGnatius T Foobar > >Debian admins here will enjoy their popcorn while reading how the Red > > >Hat ecosystem has a clone war XD > > Debian has plenty of clones of its own, so there's really no >difference here. > > I wish IBM would just switch to the "the download is always free; pay >us for support if you want" model that Canonical uses. It would make >everyone's world a lot easier. IBM's insistence on making the >supported version (and its update channels) a closed-up download is one >reason the entire cloud world runs on Ubuntu instead of Red Hat. > > I wonder if anyone actually uses Red Hat support, or if close to 100% >of their business is the "it isn't real software unless we can pay a >vendor" racket. > > Meanwhile, it is true that Rocky Linux has become the heir apparent of >CentOS. > > It is true Debian has its clones, but it is a more stable deal: if you want Debian, you use Debian; if you want Debian with support from a vendor, you pick support from Canonical with their Ubuntu.  A friend of mine is a head developer for a product they distribute to ISPs (in fact he got promoted from making it, and now he complains non-stop that they don't let him code anymore). They target Red Hat and use Red Hat, but he has mentioned to me the only Red Hat support they ever ask for is docummentation. Now a question: why do you think Rocky Linux has become the heir of CentOS instead of, say, Alma Linux? ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099332535Mon, 03 Apr 2023 16:33:49 -00002099332535@UncensoredDebian admins here will enjoy their popcorn while reading how the Red >Hat ecosystem has a clone war XD Debian has plenty of clones of its own, so there's really no difference here. I wish IBM would just switch to the "the download is always free; pay us for support if you want" model that Canonical uses. It would make everyone's world a lot easier. IBM's insistence on making the supported version (and its update channels) a closed-up download is one reason the entire cloud world runs on Ubuntu instead of Red Hat. I wonder if anyone actually uses Red Hat support, or if close to 100% of their business is the "it isn't real software unless we can pay a vendor" racket. Meanwhile, it is true that Rocky Linux has become the heir apparent of CentOS. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099332533Mon, 03 Apr 2023 16:29:09 -00002099332533@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099332489Mon, 03 Apr 2023 09:46:49 -00002099332489@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099331866Wed, 29 Mar 2023 21:58:48 -00002099331866@Uncensored

ah, ok i saw cloud and sort of stopped reading :) 

This weekend after i get back from hospital going to see if i can back date rsync on my desktop, if i can, then problem solved without having to adjust my workflow.  Frustrating bug.

Wed Mar 29 2023 05:28:01 PM EDT from darknetuser

quick search says rclone uses cloud destinations? 

rclone uses nearly any backend destination you want to use, including ftp, local filesystems, ssh/sftp, webdav servers... you name it.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099331865Wed, 29 Mar 2023 21:28:01 -00002099331865@Uncensoredquick search says rclone uses cloud destinations?  rclone uses nearly any backend destination you want to use, including ftp, local filesystems, ssh/sftp, webdav servers... you name it. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099331686Tue, 28 Mar 2023 14:33:37 -00002099331686@Uncensored

Ya i have that parameter, else it would not work with normal files ( which it does just fine .. including .dot folders if removed, just not the files IN the .dot folder ).

i installed a fresh Debian, installed 3.1.3 version of rsync.   it works like it should, so must be a bug in later versions ( not going to see how far back..) . Grumble.  Going to try to install older version on my desktop then pin it, if it lets me.  

quick search says rclone uses cloud destinations? 

Tue Mar 28 2023 10:06:44 AM EDT from darknetuser

rsync has a flag for propagating deletions. I think it is --delete.

If you are sick for good of rsync, you can try rclone, but I don't see a reason to use it when you have rsync setup already.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099331679Tue, 28 Mar 2023 14:06:44 -00002099331679@Uncensored 2023-03-26 10:52 from Nurb432 >Ok so ran across something last night, and dont see a fix so looking >for alternatives.. > >Been seeing the issue where my rsync backup drive of my home >directory fills up.. have to erase and start over.  Yet my home >directory is not that big.  Has not been a huge deal so i been >putting it off. > >Last night i forgot to empty trash before i did a backup ."damn, that >is 75g ... let me empty it and run sync again "  .   But in logs >it didnt actually delete anything. Turns out that if you have a >hidden folder rsync will copy new items to the destination, but if >you remove the file, it ignores it ..      if you delete the >entire folder, it will sync that change.  > >So as cache files and such build ( browsers, etc ) in the hidden >folders, it just keeps accumulating on my backup.. until poof, its >full. > >Trying to search around for an alternative, which i have never cared >to do, rsync has always done ok for me for all these years, and all i >get is commercial cloud crap.  Yes i could erase/copy full each >time, but when 90% of my flies don't change its wasted time and extra >stress on my ssd for no reason.  ( and since i have 3 backups, one i >take off-site, even more wasted time ) > rsync has a flag for propagating deletions. I think it is --delete. If you are sick for good of rsync, you can try rclone, but I don't see a reason to use it when you have rsync setup already. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099331603Mon, 27 Mar 2023 22:41:09 -00002099331603@Uncensored

Ah, an older version..  

Tomorrow going to install a test vm and get an older version of rsync on it ..  

Mon Mar 27 2023 05:33:16 PM EDT from zelgomer

2023-03-27 19:30 from Nurb432 <nurb432@uncensored.citadel.org>
What version and what OS? I suspect i have a bug in my version, and

My test came from RHEL 8, rsync 3.1.3, protocol version 31.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099331598Mon, 27 Mar 2023 21:33:16 -00002099331598@Uncensored 2023-03-27 19:30 from Nurb432 >What version and what OS? I suspect i have a bug in my version, and My test came from RHEL 8, rsync 3.1.3, protocol version 31. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099331592Mon, 27 Mar 2023 20:05:16 -00002099331592@Uncensored

The python code GPT-3.5 gave me ( since i wont pay for GPT4 ) looked good doing a review, tested..  works like its supposed to.

Sure, not as many features ( like ssh, compression, bla bla ), and not as efficient, but it will do what i want..

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099331589Mon, 27 Mar 2023 19:30:12 -00002099331589@Uncensored

What version and what OS? I suspect i have a bug in my version, and the one before it ( i think i cant be 100% sure now )    version 3.2.7  protocol version 31 - bookworm

 

in my case it would be 

 

First

• create  /house/.files
• add /house/.files/bla.txt

rsync.. adds folder and file.

Then

• Delete /house/.files/bla.txt

rsync: 

• ignores change and leaves bla.txt

Then

• Add /house/.files/blue.txt

rsync

• still ignores the fact bla.txt is gone
• adds blue.txt

Then.

• delete entire folder /house/.files

rsync

• removes folder and both files

 

But adding/removing files from root of /house/  works fine. 

 

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099331588Mon, 27 Mar 2023 19:06:13 -00002099331588@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099331581Mon, 27 Mar 2023 18:37:24 -00002099331581@Uncensored

Tho, i guess i''m missing the obvious time saving measure:

 

"hey bot, in python make me.... "

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099331572Mon, 27 Mar 2023 16:40:18 -00002099331572@Uncensored

sure, i can, but hate to go to all hat trouble when rsync *should* do this out of the box.  I could always go back to zip, just was a nice feature to have it 'plug and play' if i got into a jam. i dont do it so much to recover a file from an 'oh crap' moment, its more for disaster recovery. 

For all my other items i backup, rsync works well, no funny folders to deal with, its just my actual home directory that is causing me issues.

Mon Mar 27 2023 10:51:03 AM EDT from zelgomer

By the way, if it comes to it, you may have to implement your own "generate a list of files and then go find and delete the chaff" script. A verbose flag to rsync may help to generate the list of wheat files for you.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099331561Mon, 27 Mar 2023 14:51:03 -00002099331561@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099331560Mon, 27 Mar 2023 14:42:42 -00002099331560@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099331536Mon, 27 Mar 2023 11:40:50 -00002099331536@Uncensored

Bleh typo.

 

"files in a dot folder that got deleted"   not didnt..  of course it wont delete files that are still in the source.. :)      Just delete the extra word delete i had :)  rsync reached out and grabbed my keyboard :)

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099331533Mon, 27 Mar 2023 11:22:21 -00002099331533@Uncensored

Ya, i do have that as a parameter. and it does delete a dot folder ( and any files in it ), and files that were in regular folders, fine. Its just files inside a dot folder that didnt get deleted that its ignoring once they are written to the destination.. 

( user name changed due to the obvious reasons ) ->  rsync -azvh --delete '/home/xxxx' '/media/xxxx/357c67df-e734-431f-8adc-a40366d690a8/'         ( that mess that looks a bit like a UUID is how one my external SSD shows up and its not worth me changing it really, its scripted, i dont type it. The one i send off site is a veracrypt drive instead and it does the same thing. )

Going to install an older version of Debian ( buster ) later this week and try it there, as i wonder if its a bug in bookworm. But i think i had this problem as far back as stretch. Before that i did backups differently and just a zip of separate folders.. ( since tar wont do a 'sync' on updates very well ) but having files 'open' is far more convenient, and i could just shove the drive into a new PC and mount it as my home.. instantly be back and running. 

 

Sun Mar 26 2023 09:25:17 PM EDT from zelgomer

--delete delete extraneous files from dest dirs

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099331495Mon, 27 Mar 2023 01:25:17 -00002099331495@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099331435Sun, 26 Mar 2023 14:52:32 -00002099331435@Uncensored

Ok so ran across something last night, and dont see a fix so looking for alternatives..

Been seeing the issue where my rsync backup drive of my home directory fills up.. have to erase and start over.  Yet my home directory is not that big.  Has not been a huge deal so i been putting it off.

Last night i forgot to empty trash before i did a backup ."damn, that is 75g ... let me empty it and run sync again "  .   But in logs it didnt actually delete anything. Turns out that if you have a hidden folder rsync will copy new items to the destination, but if you remove the file, it ignores it ..      if you delete the entire folder, it will sync that change. 

So as cache files and such build ( browsers, etc ) in the hidden folders, it just keeps accumulating on my backup.. until poof, its full.

Trying to search around for an alternative, which i have never cared to do, rsync has always done ok for me for all these years, and all i get is commercial cloud crap.  Yes i could erase/copy full each time, but when 90% of my flies don't change its wasted time and extra stress on my ssd for no reason.  ( and since i have 3 backups, one i take off-site, even more wasted time )

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099325253Tue, 07 Feb 2023 14:42:37 -00002099325253@Uncensored

I get it, Oracle is not a well loved or trusted company.

And if that is to be the case, then btrfs will keep getting improved until it reaches feature parity with ZFS, and that'll be the end of that.

It's their choice, really.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324828Sat, 04 Feb 2023 00:51:50 -00002099324828@Uncensored

"we promise" 

Ya.. no thanks.

Fri Feb 03 2023 06:00:51 PM EST from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Ding dong, proprietary Unix is dead.

Other possibilities are dual-licensing (GPL and BSD) or, as Linus has called for, a covenant not to sue over OpenZFS.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324819Fri, 03 Feb 2023 23:00:51 -00002099324819@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324786Fri, 03 Feb 2023 18:09:23 -00002099324786@Uncensored

After the OpenBSD fiasco, network drivers stopped getting ported from linux, and there was a huge push in FreeBSD to de-GPL all of base.

 

Fri Feb 03 2023 13:07:27 ESTfrom Nurb432 Subject: Re: Ding dong, proprietary Unix is dead.

ya for all the good GPL brings, it also brings bad... I hate to sound like ' them' but ultimately it is an infection that can bite you in the butt.. 

Fri Feb 03 2023 12:35:13 PM ESTfrom LadySerenaKitty Subject: Re: Ding dong, proprietary Unix is dead.

Changing the license to GPL would have disastrous consequences.  It would be removed from nearly every OS that currently uses it, except linux.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324784Fri, 03 Feb 2023 18:07:27 -00002099324784@Uncensored

ya for all the good GPL brings, it also brings bad... I hate to sound like ' them' but ultimately it is an infection that can bite you in the butt.. 

 

Fri Feb 03 2023 12:35:13 PM EST from LadySerenaKitty Subject: Re: Ding dong, proprietary Unix is dead.

Changing the license to GPL would have disastrous consequences.  It would be removed from nearly every OS that currently uses it, except linux.

 

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324781Fri, 03 Feb 2023 17:35:13 -00002099324781@Uncensored

Changing the license to GPL would have disastrous consequences.  It would be removed from nearly every OS that currently uses it, except linux.

 

Fri Feb 03 2023 10:57:04 EST from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Ding dong, proprietary Unix is dead.

Fair enough. `btrfs` originated inside of Oracle and they have (or at least had) a bunch of engineers working on it. Thanks to the GPL they cannot revoke it from the community or change the terms of its publication into the kernel.

The point is that after acquiring Sun, Oracle became the steward of two filesystems with very similar goals and purposes. Some people consider ZFS to be far superior to btrfs, and Oracle no longer has a business case for keeping ZFS away from Linux, so why don't they just relicense it as GPL.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324770Fri, 03 Feb 2023 15:57:04 -00002099324770@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324500Thu, 02 Feb 2023 00:37:02 -00002099324500@Uncensoredanyone who uses it. This is particularly st00pid since Oracle is now >the owner of both ZFS and btrfs, and they no longer have a need to give How can Oracle own btrfs? It was developed in the Linux kernel, surely that makes it GPL, doesn't it? ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324489Wed, 01 Feb 2023 22:18:51 -00002099324489@Uncensored

With FreeBSD's installer, root on ZFS is the default option.  Yes, you can still choose UFS2 if you need that.

 

Wed Feb 01 2023 16:11:29 EST from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Ding dong, proprietary Unix is dead.

ZFS is "sort of" on Linux. Some vendors are afraid to ship it or build on top of it because Oracle hasn't promised not to fling sueballs at anyone who uses it. This is particularly st00pid since Oracle is now the owner of both ZFS and btrfs, and they no longer have a need to give Solaris an edge over Linux.

And yes, I know, btrfs still has a write hole when you run a volume in raid5/raid6 mode. But I'm running my home machine in raid1 mode, and I'm running my server farm on top of the kernel's RAID10, so I don't care.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324483Wed, 01 Feb 2023 21:11:29 -00002099324483@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324436Wed, 01 Feb 2023 14:07:32 -00002099324436@Uncensoredcapabilities that have never been matched in Linux. Things like >DTrace, zones, ZFS in Solaris, the clustering design in OpenVMS, etc., >are superbly designed and maybe even revolutionary. Leaving licensing >issues aside, some of these capabilities have found their way into >FreeBSD, but not Linux. Why? I'd argue it's because Linux doesn't I mean you're not wrong -- worse is better, simpler is better, new jersey is better than MIT but dtrace is in linux now, ZFS is in linux now, various scary forms of clustering are in linux now so as a practical matter I'm not sure what all this means... ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324362Tue, 31 Jan 2023 22:13:49 -00002099324362@Uncensored

Simpler times back then.  Simpler life.   I miss VSTa. ( tho i have said that before ),

I miss the early 90s in general, who am i kidding.

Tue Jan 31 2023 04:30:18 PM EST from LadySerenaKitty

Believe it or not, I quite like IRIX.  

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324360Tue, 31 Jan 2023 21:30:18 -00002099324360@Uncensored

Believe it or not, I quite like IRIX.  Both my Indy and my O2 are running IRIX Release 6.5 Update 22 (commonly referred to as IRIX 6.5.22).  It's a nice system, rather quirky, but it works very well.

 

Now if only I could find the pinouts for the memory slots in my machines, I could maybe get some memory modules made.  Bring them both up to the max supported memory capacity.  256MB for the Indy, 8GB for the O2.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324316Tue, 31 Jan 2023 15:25:30 -00002099324316@Uncensored

Or if they just kissed and made up, with no suit..

Tue Jan 31 2023 10:11:01 AM EST from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Ding dong, proprietary Unix is dead.

It was really just timing. Had the AT&T lawsuit been settled a few years earlier,

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324311Tue, 31 Jan 2023 15:11:01 -00002099324311@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324217Mon, 30 Jan 2023 19:31:12 -00002099324217@Uncensored

"good enough" is how most things in the world operate, if you get down to it.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324213Mon, 30 Jan 2023 18:08:05 -00002099324213@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324149Sun, 29 Jan 2023 17:21:08 -00002099324149@Uncensored

Wow, totality missed your intent. sorry

 

I blame being sick and not eating, going on 4 days now.

Sat Jan 28 2023 08:25:14 PM EST from LadySerenaKitty

Terminal graphics are just slow, good for cat pics but not for video.  Also not a link, just underlined text.

Sat Jan 28 2023 16:14:59 EST from Nurb432

ok i meant practically, i know you can do tty video. but no one wants it. gimme a break, im sick :)

( and the link didnt show )

Sat Jan 28 2023 03:58:26 PM EST from LadySerenaKitty

THIS RIGHT HERE!

Sat Jan 28 2023 14:58:11 EST from Nurb432

Cant play cat videos on tty terminals....

 

 

 

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324109Sun, 29 Jan 2023 01:25:14 -00002099324109@Uncensored

Terminal graphics are just slow, good for cat pics but not for video.  Also not a link, just underlined text.

Sat Jan 28 2023 16:14:59 EST from Nurb432

ok i meant practically, i know you can do tty video. but no one wants it. gimme a break, im sick :)

( and the link didnt show )

Sat Jan 28 2023 03:58:26 PM EST from LadySerenaKitty

THIS RIGHT HERE!

Sat Jan 28 2023 14:58:11 EST from Nurb432

Cant play cat videos on tty terminals....

 

 

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324100Sat, 28 Jan 2023 21:14:59 -00002099324100@Uncensored

ok i meant practically, i know you can do tty video. but no one wants it. gimme a break, im sick :)

( and the link didnt show )

Sat Jan 28 2023 03:58:26 PM EST from LadySerenaKitty

THIS RIGHT HERE!

Sat Jan 28 2023 14:58:11 EST from Nurb432

Cant play cat videos on tty terminals....

 

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324099Sat, 28 Jan 2023 20:58:26 -00002099324099@Uncensored

THIS RIGHT HERE!

Sat Jan 28 2023 14:58:11 EST from Nurb432

Cant play cat videos on tty terminals....

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324090Sat, 28 Jan 2023 19:58:11 -00002099324090@Uncensored

Cant play cat videos on tty terminals....

Sat Jan 28 2023 12:18:23 PM EST from LadySerenaKitty

 

 "there is no market for consumer graphics" 

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324088Sat, 28 Jan 2023 19:11:02 -00002099324088@Uncensored

True that.  Pretty much any computer maker who bet the farm on Itanic failed hard.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324081Sat, 28 Jan 2023 17:18:23 -00002099324081@Uncensored

You forgot about IRIX.  SGI killed IRIX in their misguided attempt to go Intel (with the Itanium, ironically enough) thus alienating their core customer base.

 

Also, the whole "there is no market for consumer graphics" was laughable and even dead wrong, considering the CEO of SGI said this in 1998, 2 years post-release of the Nintendo 64, a stripped-down SGI InfiniteReality workstation.  PlayStation (the OG one, not the knockoffs Sony later produced) had ameowzing graphics (also a MIPS machine), and desktop "programmable" GPUs were already on the market.  Obviously, there was a huge demand in consumer graphics.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099324077Sat, 28 Jan 2023 16:23:21 -00002099324077@Uncensored

(Warning: long form article! TL;DR you already know all this, but allow me to wax eloquent.)

Ding dong, proprietary Unix is dead.

Back in the late 1990s, the commercial Unix titans waged war, each tying to establish their place at the top of the heap, each trying to be "the" vendor that would win the Unix Wars. Sun, IBM, DEC, HP, and others fought for the love and money of the user community. Who won the Unix Wars? Unfortunately, the early victor seemed to be a junior varsity team from the pacific northwest whose pathetic offering wasn't even a Unix operating system. In that time, everyone in the trade press talked about "migrating to NT" as breathlessly as they now talk about "migrating to the cloud."

In fact, I remember someone right in this very forum saying of the future of Unix: "Microsoft will squash it like a bug" and later, "Linux will be Unix, or what's left of it." It was a dreary and hopeless-seeming chapter of computing history. Ironically, the reason I originally learned how to build multithreaded server software instead of servers launched by inetd was because I suspected I would eventually need to move to Windows. Thankfully, that never happened -- instead, a few years later, open source Unix began its incredible breakout success.

Today, the world runs on Linux, BSD, and open source software stacks of all types. Every part of the computing landscape except for one vendor's legacy desktop runs on some sort of Linux or BSD variant. How did this happen? We will leave that for the follow-up discussion (please be responsible and hit "Reply" rather than "Enter message" to keep the thread intact). I think it's time to bring up a couple of data points, then deliver a happy eulogy for the operating system that changed the world, and finally raise a toast to its open source progeny.

Why talk about it now?

Why now, you might ask? This has been going on for a while. We all know about it. So what's the point of talking about it in long form now? It's because we recently arrived at what some might call the final mile marker in the life of commercial Unix: IBM has moved all remaining AIX development jobs to India. From a purely "IBM behavior" perspective, this isn't a surprise -- the company we call "India Business Machines" has been sacking US workers and replacing them with offshore workers for a long time now. It's significant because AIX was the last remaining proprietary Unix that was still in active development by its vendor. By shifting the development to offshore code pounders, IBM has signalled that AIX is now in maintenance mode.

Let us now visit the "leaderboard" of the former titans.

• IBM and AIX: as noted above, now in maintenance mode.
• Sun and Solaris: effectively dead as of 2017, when Oracle laid off the core talent of the Solaris and SPARC teams. Solaris 12 was canceled and replaced with "Solaris 11.next" which basically put that operating system into maintenance mode.
• DEC and Tru64 (formerly OSF/1 and Digital Unix): acquired by Compaq and then HP; ultimately discontinued by the vendor. For real.
• HP and HP/UX (pronounced "H Pukes"): like the old man in Monty Python's "Holy Grail", it says it's not dead but it isn't fooling anyone. HP/UX is tied to Itanium, which is also in maintenance mode and will go cold in 2025.
• SCO: hahahahahahahaha! Yeah, they're gone, but they'll probably zombie up every couple of years to sue someone. Not really relevant. Interestingly, they were briefly vaporwaring something called "OpenServer 10" which was to be based on FreeBSD, but that seems to have disappeared from their web site now.

And of course, all of this is ok.

In the dark and gloomy late 1990s, Brian Valentine said that when Windows finished vanquishing all other operating systems in every conceivable corner of the industry, Windows would become "the fabric of standard computing." We are thankful that this dystopia never came to pass. Instead, we really did establish a fabric of standard computing, but one that is collectively stewarded, one in which every component is swappable, one upon which new developments can be made by anyone with no first-party advantage. This is a Good Thing.

A few brilliant hackers at AT&T changed the world in 1969 when they developed an operating system whose fundamentals have stood the test of time. Even they agree that Linux and BSD are the progeny of the original Unix equally as much as its own commercial descendents (which, as previously demonstrated, are now dead). We have reason to celebrate.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099323239Fri, 20 Jan 2023 01:51:27 -00002099323239@Uncensored

Yea, I saw some of those questions come up in Citadel Support while I was doing my work to make Citadel compile and run on FreeBSD.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099323227Thu, 19 Jan 2023 23:51:25 -00002099323227@Uncensored

I might have been ranting a bit ( and had a migraine that day ), but this is what i meant.

Thu Jan 19 2023 06:32:12 PM EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Happy to assist if they get stuck but do *some* of the 101-level learning.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099323223Thu, 19 Jan 2023 23:32:12 -00002099323223@UncensoredSo many noobs are attracted by the >small form factor of the pi and its price and end up asking stupid >questions and clogging the communication channels with issues that are >common knowledge for anybody who has used Linux for more than 6 months. Amen to that. You can see it in the Citadel Support forum from time to time. Word got out a couple of years ago that Citadel is the most awesome software to run on a Pi to repatriate your data and communications -- and that's absolutely true -- but they show up asking questions that show they're just dipping their toes in the water and don't know their way around Linux. For that matter, they don't know much about running services on the Internet. Happy to assist if they get stuck but do *some* of the 101-level learning. (Also when you said "rpiers" I thought you meant people who attended Rennslear Polytechnic Institute ... people who ought to know their way around a computer.) ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099323178Thu, 19 Jan 2023 17:08:38 -00002099323178@Uncensored Why do I have to go search a wiki to find information that should be >on the front page? Because an UX motherfucker wanted to jerk off on some website template, and the new debian.org is the result. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099323177Thu, 19 Jan 2023 17:06:58 -00002099323177@Uncensored 2023-01-16 20:10 from Nurb432 >its one thing not remembering its another asking what does it mean.. > >and sure, everyone is newbie at one point, but need to learn the >basics swim you swim with the big buys.. > Hey, I have noticed that if you want to learn you have to mix with people who knows the trade. When I got started with computers I bought a lot of literature that was well above my level and tried to make the most out of it. It eventually worked, somehow. Same with the companies you frequent. That said, showing at an advanced community and asking the very basics that are explained everywhere is a bad start. That is a bit of a mini-problem I have with rpiers. So many noobs are attracted by the small form factor of the pi and its price and end up asking stupid questions and clogging the communication channels with issues that are common knowledge for anybody who has used Linux for more than 6 months. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099323030Wed, 18 Jan 2023 15:38:26 -00002099323030@Uncensored

ON THIS WEBSITE WE BELIEVE IN SCIENCE

NO DISTRO IS ILLEGAL

ALL ARE WELCOME EXCEPT HATERS

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099322965Tue, 17 Jan 2023 19:27:09 -00002099322965@Uncensored 2023-01-17 18:18 from IGnatius T Foobar > > ummm ... it's on a plain html page, easily readable ... > > [ https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases ] > > At the time of this writing: > v11 = Bullseye = stable > v12 = Bookworm = testing > > Perhaps they ought to put a link to that page in /etc/apt/sources.list > Why do I have to go search a wiki to find information that should be on the front page? Maybe I'm just being a curmudgeon because I hate debian.org's new design as of a few years ago. They used to have most of what you'd ever want to know right on the main page, or a link to it. Now the main page is a bunch of useless bullshit about community and philosophy and you have to dig or use the search function to find anything of any relevance. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099322950Tue, 17 Jan 2023 18:18:41 -00002099322950@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099322901Tue, 17 Jan 2023 01:11:49 -00002099322901@Uncensored

wtf...  how did it insert words in the wrong place.

 

"need to learn the basics before you swim with the big boys"

Mon Jan 16 2023 08:10:46 PM EST from Nurb432

its one thing not remembering its another asking what does it mean..

and sure, everyone is newbie at one point, but need to learn the basics swim you swim with the big buys..

 

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099322900Tue, 17 Jan 2023 01:10:46 -00002099322900@Uncensored

its one thing not remembering its another asking what does it mean..

and sure, everyone is newbie at one point, but need to learn the basics swim you swim with the big buys..

 

 

Mon Jan 16 2023 08:08:16 PM EST from zelgomer

2023-01-16 21:55 from Nurb432 <nurb432@uncensored.citadel.org>
in an SBC forum, talking about Armbian builds: "What is Debian
bullseye and what does Ubuntu jammy mean"?  and "what is GPG and
SHA"

 

I think they need to find another hobby..

To be fair, I can never remember the damn code names. And good luck finding a version to codename mapping on the shitty new website.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099322899Tue, 17 Jan 2023 01:08:16 -00002099322899@Uncensored 2023-01-16 21:55 from Nurb432 >in an SBC forum, talking about Armbian builds: "What is Debian >bullseye and what does Ubuntu jammy mean"?  and "what is GPG and >SHA" > >  > >I think they need to find another hobby.. > To be fair, I can never remember the damn code names. And good luck finding a version to codename mapping on the shitty new website. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099322885Mon, 16 Jan 2023 21:55:52 -00002099322885@Uncensored

in an SBC forum, talking about Armbian builds: "What is Debian bullseye and what does Ubuntu jammy mean"?  and "what is GPG and SHA"

 

I think they need to find another hobby..

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099322119Sat, 07 Jan 2023 14:56:33 -00002099322119@Uncensored

Tried installing Armbian x86.. fail.   it booted ran thru the setup on USB.. then tried to install to internal drive..It was able to partition my drive, but then couldn't read the partitions after and fails. Try again it said no space left, delete manually, try.. fail..  Tried a couple of times. ( physical hardware. wasn't able to convert their img to iso.. )

Not that i would 'use' it on a regular basis, but their build suite only supports Armbian and Ubuntu hosts.. id like to get out of having Ubuntu VM dedicated to that..

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099322115Sat, 07 Jan 2023 14:48:45 -00002099322115@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099321856Thu, 05 Jan 2023 19:57:05 -00002099321856@Uncensored

Oooo . Snap sucks.

 

2099321843@Uncensored

Cross compiling an entire new system, including apps and a GUI, from scratch takes a bit. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Building Armbian from scratch on a x86 vm for a Jetson Nano. I really wish they would support the NX so i can get it off ubuntu. Sure i might be able to hack something together with enough effort, but it woudl be that, a hack, and break every time i sneeze..

( and as i flipped over to that terminal to check status i saw the wayland package float by. Where is my ASCII middle finger when i need it :P )

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099321236Thu, 29 Dec 2022 20:43:41 -00002099321236@Uncensored

lol

Thu Dec 29 2022 02:28:57 PM EST from IGnatius T Foobar

I like systemd, and I also like Wayland, so pthphpbbphptgbphtphpbpthpbhh.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099321221Thu, 29 Dec 2022 19:28:57 -00002099321221@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099321003Mon, 26 Dec 2022 23:55:01 -00002099321003@Uncensored

I blame canoical for pushing things like SystemD, wayland and that freaking walled snap store.

I dont like them.

 

( but that should come as no surprise )

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099320997Mon, 26 Dec 2022 23:19:07 -00002099320997@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099320563Wed, 21 Dec 2022 22:45:29 -00002099320563@Uncensored

It does seem like going backwards. 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099320526Wed, 21 Dec 2022 14:34:24 -00002099320526@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099319139Wed, 07 Dec 2022 21:12:46 -00002099319139@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099318960Tue, 06 Dec 2022 16:04:13 -00002099318960@Uncensored

Testing = next one in line ( in this case bookworm ). While should be stable it is subject to changes coming from sid.   Sid is the 'upcoming test bed' ( gets moved to the next named testing version but never changes its name, its always Sid since hes not 100% stable ), and then there is true unstable, which can be a ClusterF (tm), but great if you want to live on the edge. 

I ran Sid for years as its not just 'it compiled, shipped' , but every so often you get things that are not available yet ( or vanishes for a while ) in the current build and effects something else you have.  Not often, but it happens.   I stopped the one time it broke something i needed to function, and have mostly stuck with release and 'late' testing since.

Tue Dec 06 2022 09:53:02 AM EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Just upgraded my main machine to bookworm .. wish me luck. :)

I don't quite remember where I am on that timeline ... but I have one VM on which I'm cross-compiling for i386, AMD64, ARMv7, and ARM64 -- and the ARM64 build (on qemu) finally works without crashing. Progress!

I wish there was a "rolling" branch of Debian. (Yes I know, "testing" is sort of that way, but it's not guaranteed stable.)

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099318951Tue, 06 Dec 2022 14:53:02 -00002099318951@UncensoredJust upgraded my main machine to bookworm .. wish me luck. :) I don't quite remember where I am on that timeline ... but I have one VM on which I'm cross-compiling for i386, AMD64, ARMv7, and ARM64 -- and the ARM64 build (on qemu) finally works without crashing. Progress! I wish there was a "rolling" branch of Debian. (Yes I know, "testing" is sort of that way, but it's not guaranteed stable.) ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099317166Sun, 20 Nov 2022 01:00:24 -00002099317166@Uncensored

Well, now screen blank actually shuts my monitor off after a while.   not seen that in at least 3 releases...   So at least that is one improvement. 

 

I wonder if it has drivers now for my 'convertible' laptop. ( one of those things with the screen that folds around to make it a tablet like device ).  By messing with xrand some, I managed to manually force things like turning off keyboard and trackpad, but still cant get screen rotation right, so its only usable in landscape mode. While not worthless, no 'reading' mode. ( video rotates, but touch sensor does not.. ).   Auto sensing and auto switch woudl be nice..   It came with windows, and i guess it does work with that, but, that is windows :)

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099317164Sat, 19 Nov 2022 23:37:16 -00002099317164@Uncensored 2022-11-19 22:45 from Nurb432 >Just upgraded my main machine to bookworm .. wish me luck. :) > Thanks for the reminder. I'm way behind the ball, still running buster on all my machines. Thanksgiving break is probably a good time to finally upgrade. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099317161Sat, 19 Nov 2022 22:45:55 -00002099317161@Uncensored

Just upgraded my main machine to bookworm .. wish me luck. :)

 

(should be ok i used to run sid all the time)

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099315815Thu, 03 Nov 2022 22:26:06 -00002099315815@Uncensored

if anyone cares, new 9Front released this week.  Code name "golden age of ballooning"

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099314833Mon, 24 Oct 2022 23:04:14 -00002099314833@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099313951Sat, 15 Oct 2022 13:13:16 -00002099313951@Uncensored

Sorry, wast trying to open up that debate really, I was just trying to put it in time-perspective.  

I got carried away with my commentary, as i'm still bitter :)

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099313949Sat, 15 Oct 2022 12:52:01 -00002099313949@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099313941Sat, 15 Oct 2022 11:30:48 -00002099313941@Uncensored

I used to be a BSD one ( well not god*ESS* but you know what i mean :) )   I was poking at BSD back before the days of the "great suit" that let the unencumbered penguin take the lead and forever changed computing.

 

Somewhere i should still have my walnut creek CD with NetBSD/386  ( or was it 386/bsd? I forget now, its been too long ) that had the parts that were part of the suit removed.. It was of course totally unusable as is, but we all got a copy in case more code was lost..

 

Fri Oct 14 2022 11:59:03 PM EDT from LadySerenaKitty

 Also, not everykitty is a FreeBSD Goddess like me.  Not everykitty is a linux god either.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099313906Sat, 15 Oct 2022 03:59:03 -00002099313906@Uncensored

 

Fri Oct 14 2022 16:32:07 EDT from Nurb432

In theory they are paying for someone to hold their hand, and to blame when things break.   

Having a 3rd party to blame when things go bad should not be discounted.  There is value there.

Thu Oct 13 2022 07:16:55 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

And yet for some reason, people pay boatloads of money to companies like Red IBM, Canonical, and Apple for free unices.

 

Also, not everykitty is a FreeBSD Goddess like me.  Not everykitty is a linux god either.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099313878Fri, 14 Oct 2022 20:32:07 -00002099313878@Uncensored

In theory they are paying for someone to hold their hand, and to blame when things break.   

Having a 3rd party to blame when things go bad should not be discounted.  There is value there.

Thu Oct 13 2022 07:16:55 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

And yet for some reason, people pay boatloads of money to companies like Red IBM, Canonical, and Apple for free unices.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099313848Fri, 14 Oct 2022 13:52:26 -00002099313848@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099313796Thu, 13 Oct 2022 23:16:55 -00002099313796@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099313758Thu, 13 Oct 2022 17:42:20 -00002099313758@Uncensored

 

Thu Oct 13 2022 09:52:00 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I'm not sure why anyone would want to pay Xinuos for FreeBSD when the downloadable version is perfectly good by itself, but whatever...

There's also the part where FreeBSD is, y'know, free.  It's kinda in the name.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099313733Thu, 13 Oct 2022 13:52:00 -00002099313733@UncensoredBSD! BSD! BSD! You might be interested in knowing that SCO Unix (OpenServer) 10 is built on 64-bit FreeBSD. [ https://www.xinuos.com/products/openserver-10/#os10-features ] And it can "support legacy SCO products in a virtualized environment" ! Wowzers!!! For those of you who weren't paying attention ... there are TWO successors to SCO after they went bankrupt trying to sueball their open source competitors out of existence. TSG Group, a legal entity representing SCO's debtors, settled with IBM last year. IBM basically paid them USD$14,250,000 to go away and give up all current and future litigation claims. Xinuos, a company that bought SCO's name and intellectual property back in 2011, continues to hurl lawsuits at IBM, while selling FreeBSD and pretending that it's SCO Unix. I'm not sure why anyone would want to pay Xinuos for FreeBSD when the downloadable version is perfectly good by itself, but whatever... ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099313675Wed, 12 Oct 2022 21:12:35 -00002099313675@Uncensored

Ya 9Front is current.  But the community can be off-putting for the newbie.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099313637Wed, 12 Oct 2022 13:26:43 -00002099313637@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099313560Tue, 11 Oct 2022 20:18:17 -00002099313560@Uncensored

Plan9 for the win!

 

:)

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099313554Tue, 11 Oct 2022 19:27:44 -00002099313554@Uncensored

BSD! BSD! BSD!

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099310003Wed, 07 Sep 2022 19:06:42 -00002099310003@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099309998Wed, 07 Sep 2022 18:14:08 -00002099309998@Uncensored 2022-09-03 13:33 from IGnatius T Foobar >You mean like looking for the dynamic DNS name of the other end and >then setting the route appropriately? That could work, as ugly as it what I mean is, systemd-resolved has a mode where you can tell it which TLD/suffix to route to which interface. And each interface has its own DNS servers. So if you use a TLD like .internal or anything else specific to your org, you can configure the routing so that those names will only ever be queried against the nameservers associated with your VPN interface. In the absense of this config, the default behavior of systemd-resolved is to send the DNS query on all interfaces at once, and return the first positive response it receives. This mostly works OK, but it has two drawbacks: 1) DNS queries for your internal hosts are sent to the public internet, and might be observed by an attacker who can then gather intel about your internal topology 2) If the address resolves differently when it's queried on your internal nameserver, the result you get is the luck of the draw. OpenVPN has a config option `dhcp-option DOMAIN-ROUTE foo` which can be used to communicate this config to systemd-resolved (assuming it's not broken at the moment...) ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099309811Mon, 05 Sep 2022 23:50:32 -00002099309811@Uncensored

Overthinking has burnt us all a few times :)

 

And that is cool.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099309803Mon, 05 Sep 2022 22:16:30 -00002099309803@Uncensored I'll try it later. Turns out I was thinking too much. I do that sometimes. It was easy. Instead of playing around with fwmark and other such incantations, the solution was to start understanding Linux's multiple routing table capabilities and how they can be used outside of containers and namespaces etc. Step 1: create a routing table, in this case table 100, and make its default the tunnel: ip route add default dev $1 table 100 Step 2: use that table to route all traffic originating from the origin server network: ip rule add from 72.0.224.88/29 table 100 That's all it took. None of the other nonsense worked. This worked elegantly and beautifully. Now, traffic being forwarded *through* the host goes into the tunnel, while traffic to/from the host stays on the main routing table. This of course gets me right back to where I started, but now I can add more VPNs without needing to know the IP address of the other end. I intend to create a Wireguard VPN from my home router to this router, but I have dynamic IP at home. WireGuard supports one end being dynamic. So now when I get a WireGuard connection I simply add the route to my home network (192.168.1.0/24) to table 100 instead of table main. Easy fo'sheezy and everything just works. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099309691Sat, 03 Sep 2022 21:52:17 -00002099309691@Uncensored

I have bookmarked them for later. Might want an off-site server sometime.

What OS are they running on the VMs?  I didnt see it listed from a quick glance at the plans.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099309689Sat, 03 Sep 2022 20:39:07 -00002099309689@Uncensored dev ens0 ip rule add fwmark 0x2 table 100 Followed by... iptables -t mangle -A OUTPUT -p udp --dport 64444 -j MARK --set-mark 2 I'll try it later. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099309687Sat, 03 Sep 2022 20:11:18 -00002099309687@Uncensored

3.50 a month is cheap.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099309678Sat, 03 Sep 2022 17:33:33 -00002099309678@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099309295Tue, 30 Aug 2022 20:10:49 -00002099309295@Uncensored As for my setup though, it's non split tunnel because the /29 routed >in by my VPN provider is hosting services on the public Internet >(including this site) so split tunnel isn't an option; it has to reach >the entire Internet. there might be a DNS domain-route workaround for that ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099309294Tue, 30 Aug 2022 20:08:39 -00002099309294@Uncensored (Side note: this makes it impossible to use your own network printer, I CAN'T PRINT!!!!!1 ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099309017Fri, 26 Aug 2022 17:05:48 -00002099309017@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099309003Fri, 26 Aug 2022 14:53:43 -00002099309003@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099308897Wed, 24 Aug 2022 23:32:30 -00002099308897@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099308887Wed, 24 Aug 2022 21:06:27 -00002099308887@Uncensored

The two most annoying responses on Usenet are still with us today:

"Why would you want to do that?"

and

"You don't want to do that."

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099308852Wed, 24 Aug 2022 13:19:42 -00002099308852@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099308715Mon, 22 Aug 2022 21:32:17 -00002099308715@Uncensored wtf, linux? This seems like something people would want to do on a >regular basis. I've never needed/wanted to do anything like this. Basically it sounds like you're tinkering with something low-level that's normally handled by containerd and/or docker. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099308702Mon, 22 Aug 2022 17:38:49 -00002099308702@Uncensored

Its what happens when you have a guy who was still in school that started the thing, and a chaotic bazaar development model.  i will admit that it has got better over the years, unless you want to talk about people like pottering infecting things :P 

Consolation with things like FreeBSD is its far more organized, and stupid crap rarely gets thru committee.   But yes, it does slow things down too, so its a trade-off.

IMon Aug 22 2022 11:49:56 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

wtf, linux? This seems like something people would want to do on a regular basis.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099308692Mon, 22 Aug 2022 15:49:56 -00002099308692@Uncensored netns " command doesn't have a "preserve addresses" option. wtf, linux? This seems like something people would want to do on a regular basis. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099307972Sat, 13 Aug 2022 23:51:44 -00002099307972@Uncensored

I do that every time i do something once in a blue moon.

then i can never find it.. and have to fight with it again...:(

Sat Aug 13 2022 07:23:54 PM EDT from zelgomer

I guess if I weren't a complete moron I would take the time to make a cheat sheet for myself. Sorry, last double post.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099307971Sat, 13 Aug 2022 23:23:54 -00002099307971@Uncensored 2022-08-13 23:21 from zelgomer > > 2022-08-13 23:18 from zelgomer > >smartmontools. Could they have made this any more impenetrable? I >have > > >to spend 5 minutes reading the man pages every time I just want to >look > > >at the state of my disks, and then I have to spend another 20 minutes > > >googling what the hell these parameters mean (is a bigger value good >or > > >bad?). And I think I just discovered that this whole time I've had it > > >setup to, instead of mailing me warnings, invoke a script which calls > > >run-parts on an empty dir, effectively doing nothing. > > > > > > Oh yeah, and similar subject: Network UPS Tools (NUT). Exact same >story. I'm not completely confident I have it configured correctly, and >when I want to look at anything I first spend 5 minutes searching >installed packages and the binaries they deploy because fuck if I can >ever remember these command names. upsc? upscmd? upsmon??! > > I guess if I weren't a complete moron I would take the time to make a cheat sheet for myself. Sorry, last double post. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099307970Sat, 13 Aug 2022 23:21:40 -00002099307970@Uncensored 2022-08-13 23:18 from zelgomer >smartmontools. Could they have made this any more impenetrable? I have >to spend 5 minutes reading the man pages every time I just want to look >at the state of my disks, and then I have to spend another 20 minutes >googling what the hell these parameters mean (is a bigger value good or >bad?). And I think I just discovered that this whole time I've had it >setup to, instead of mailing me warnings, invoke a script which calls >run-parts on an empty dir, effectively doing nothing. > > Oh yeah, and similar subject: Network UPS Tools (NUT). Exact same story. I'm not completely confident I have it configured correctly, and when I want to look at anything I first spend 5 minutes searching installed packages and the binaries they deploy because fuck if I can ever remember these command names. upsc? upscmd? upsmon??! ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099307969Sat, 13 Aug 2022 23:18:01 -00002099307969@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099298780Mon, 18 Apr 2022 13:20:34 -00002099298780@Uncensoredi do realize PowerPC is a subset of Power, but still in the same A subset perhaps, but Linux treated POWER and PowerPC as the same architecture. I'm going to take an educated guess that the difference consisted of instructions and registers that only mattered to AS/400 workloads. And that's fine, of course; no one wanted to run AS/400 software on a Power Mac (although that would be really funny). ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099297583Fri, 08 Apr 2022 14:51:16 -00002099297583@Uncensored

And Amiga with PPC boards which made us call the first Pentium processors "Lentium" which, in Catalan, lent means slow.

 

Tue Apr 05 2022 13:23:35 EDTfrom Nurb432 Subject: Re: Where are they now?!

Which is a shame. I was trilled when Apple put it in desktops.  ( ya i do realize PowerPC is a subset of Power, but still in the same family.. )

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099297308Tue, 05 Apr 2022 17:23:35 -00002099297308@Uncensored

Which is a shame. I was trilled when Apple put it in desktops.  ( ya i do realize PowerPC is a subset of Power, but still in the same family.. )

Tue Apr 05 2022 09:07:48 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Where are they now?!

The POWER architecture *is* pretty awesome. It's just too expensive for mainstream computing at this point.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099297289Tue, 05 Apr 2022 13:07:48 -00002099297289@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099297008Sat, 02 Apr 2022 17:28:43 -00002099297008@Uncensored

I totally agree, IG. On the other hand, ex workmates who I am still in touch with defend the POWER and AIX tandem with a stallmanish fervour.

I managed POWER virtualisation on z-Series for AIX and Suse Linux guests. It was magic on 2004 to see popping up a new CPU in top real time but that HMC tool was tedious to use (we used it through an X terminal IIRC) and nowadays the most basic Xen or Proxmox environment performs equal or better with more modern technologies (Ceph, clustering...) and, important, for less euros.

The same on Fujitsu's Primepower and Sun's LD.

Those Old Guard machines fell on the nostalgia side. It's not bad. We have feelings!

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099296876Fri, 01 Apr 2022 11:13:11 -00002099296876@Uncensored

Agreed, we still have one in the back room at the main data center. And a 2nd out on our DR site  ( we used to have small ones spread out into many of the remote offices.. those days are gone now )

Tho to be fair, its down to 2 apps now and they are working to get them off and onto 'generic' platforms by the end of the year....

Thu Mar 31 2022 11:12:20 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Where are they now?!

Heh. AIX is still around, running on POWER10, but I'm sure most of those machines are running "System i" to keep the legacy AS/400 apps running. This is funny: the current AIX web site says "Build cloud native apps and co-locate with AIX." As if anyone is going to go through the trouble of containerizing their applications and then run them on an overgrown RS/6000 instead of commodity hardware.

There was a time when even underpowered Unix Iron could outperform newer x86 hardware, but those days are long gone. Let us raise a glass to the memory of the good ones, and to the demise of the awful ones.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099296839Fri, 01 Apr 2022 03:12:20 -00002099296839@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099296689Wed, 30 Mar 2022 08:46:56 -00002099296689@Uncensored

 

What I can say is that I suffered, as an IT crew, the last days of HP/UX and IBM AIX and their respectives HP9000 and RS/6000 architectures.

 

Application development was pushing hard with an unstoppable thirsty of memory, io and CPU and these architectures had already grew to their maximum capabilites. Then daily and nightly crashes came. JVM ran out of memory. Oracle ran out of memory. The operating systems ran out of semaphores. Locks everywhere. Crashes and more crashes. This situation lasted up to 2010-2012.

 

Then, Linux and Intel came by multiplying per 10 the memory, the CPU. Also the virtualisation was largely implemented in the form of Xen or VMware. No more crashes. Then peaceful nights came and I eventually could watch a full movie at the cinema with no oracle.restart.sh interruptions.

 

I experienced that twice in my work life in two very different sectors.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099292335Tue, 15 Feb 2022 23:55:48 -00002099292335@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099292188Tue, 15 Feb 2022 00:17:29 -00002099292188@Uncensored I never got into BSDI but I heard it had some devoted fans. Well, that was a commercial BSD. I remember my local ISP used it back in the dialup days in Maine. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099291837Sat, 12 Feb 2022 15:48:19 -00002099291837@Uncensored host system --> router vm --> destination vm , without having to stop and type another SSH command at each hop. After my previous message I played around with the "ProxyJump" directive in .ssh/config which made it even easier; now I can just type a command to SSH to the server I want and the client figures out the jump hosts to use to get there. Very cool! ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099291683Thu, 10 Feb 2022 22:07:26 -00002099291683@Uncensored

Never used it, but i knew it existed. 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099291682Thu, 10 Feb 2022 21:50:27 -00002099291682@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099290900Wed, 02 Feb 2022 18:21:48 -00002099290900@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099290896Wed, 02 Feb 2022 17:49:32 -00002099290896@Uncensored

  WHAT???? No mention of the bastard stepchild of XENIX? SCO (pronounced "scow""), which thankfully died along with Novell back in the mid-2000's. And whatever happened

to BSDI? Loved their distro with all those ports.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099287341Fri, 31 Dec 2021 19:28:34 -00002099287341@Uncensored

"here" was meaning more about my current career and living situation.  Not "here" as in here with you all.

And yes, i would have been bought out by Comcast at some point there is no doubt ( they gobbled up everyone else around here at one point ), but with the cash and or stock options from the purchase, i would have retired, moved further out into the country, and would not be working.. ( at least not for someone else )

Sure, i might have got hit by a bus due to the different path in life, but in general it would have been at least less stressful. 

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099287328Fri, 31 Dec 2021 17:52:07 -00002099287328@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099285900Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:05:29 -00002099285900@Uncensored

Internet is just a fad anyway.

 

Man, i missed that boat. So stupid.  I saw the rise from 8088s with LEDs and switches to MacoOS and OS/2..  from 150 baud acoustic modems to Ethernet over TV coax ( tho it was internal.. not availble for consumers it was the same basic tech that came out to home 'cable internet' customers years later )  BBS to 'AOL"... and a 100 other tech-beginnings... and actually helped with the massive company data communications with IBM's network.  But i was too freaking stupid to see down the road, and we were never even close to topping out.  Even tho I was watching the foundation being built. Moron.  

Just before home broadband started happening, mother offered to bankroll a dial up ISP if i wanted to.  "nah, i dont want to risk your money, no one is really going to care about this internet thing its just a fad and for techies"

Kick myself every day. Would not be "here" today if i wasn't an idiot.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099285894Sat, 18 Dec 2021 18:07:12 -00002099285894@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099285486Wed, 15 Dec 2021 00:43:28 -00002099285486@Uncensored

yes the downfall i remember, the pre-downfall i was an OS/2 guy.. so didnt pay that much attention but remember bits and pieces. 

And i agree, that freaking lawsuit ruined everything. Delayed adoption, and let Linus do his thing off Tanenbaum's back. had a head start, in effect, while the BSD people were scrambling to make up for lost code.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099285476Tue, 14 Dec 2021 23:51:12 -00002099285476@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099285465Tue, 14 Dec 2021 23:08:44 -00002099285465@Uncensored

If i remember right, Xenix was just a re-branded/licenced sco unix and no in-house code.

 

OR did i get that backward? Its been a while and i like to forget Microsoft.. 

 

Tue Dec 14 2021 09:46:34 AM EST from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Where are they now?!

My little retrospective was focused on commercial unix systems running on proprietary architectures. I deliberately left out systems which run on commodity hardware, because as we all know, that is what took over. Linux may be the undisputed king, but BSD counts too, because it's basically part of the same ecosystem.

I've never forgotten about Xenix. It was, after all, the best operating system Microsoft ever published. I ran it right here for the first six years of this system's existence -- two years on Altos hardware and some years later on PC hardware. Head over to my blog (Skeptic Tank), fifth post in, check out my praise for Xenix followed by scorn for them abandoning it. Xenix was to be *the* successor to MS-DOS before they decided to change direction and copy the Macintosh.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099285391Tue, 14 Dec 2021 14:46:34 -00002099285391@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099285362Tue, 14 Dec 2021 10:55:21 -00002099285362@Uncensored 2021-12-13 18:56 from Nurb432 >Subject: Re: Where are they now?! >Linux is 'UNIX like', It was never really certified, nor could it be. > > >*BSD is still around, tons of FreeBSD in servers that no one ever >sees, but the other 2 main ones are not to be discounted either. My >understanding is OpenBSD is in a lot of embedded networking >equipment.  I cant say that is true or not first hand however.  >NetBSD, lots of IoT type of devices. > >Minix, well, its on nearly every Intel board made in the last 15 or >20 years. ( "Intel management engine" ) > I think Ignatius' point was about Unix which was built to be commercial from the bottom up. AT&T Unix was commercial. Early BSDs were just a package of addons for early Unix. At some point there were commercial BSDs but I think everything after BSD386 has been a foundational or non-profit project. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099285361Tue, 14 Dec 2021 10:51:28 -00002099285361@Uncensored 2021-12-13 18:35 from IGnatius T Foobar >Subject: Where are they now?! > > > And now another exciting episode of "WHERE ARE THEY NOW?!" > > Remember the Unix Wars? All the big commercial Unix companies I think you forgot Xenix, the Unix Microsoft tried to sell as a pro alternative to DOS. It was not targetting the niches you seem most familiar with and most people ignores Xenix was a thing, so I am not surprised if you ignore its existence :) ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099285336Mon, 13 Dec 2021 23:56:09 -00002099285336@Uncensored

Linux is 'UNIX like', It was never really certified, nor could it be.

*BSD is still around, tons of FreeBSD in servers that no one ever sees, but the other 2 main ones are not to be discounted either. My understanding is OpenBSD is in a lot of embedded networking equipment.  I cant say that is true or not first hand however.  NetBSD, lots of IoT type of devices.

Minix, well, its on nearly every Intel board made in the last 15 or 20 years. ( "Intel management engine" )

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099285334Mon, 13 Dec 2021 23:35:04 -00002099285334@Uncensored OSF/1 --> DIGITAL UNIX --> TRU64 UNIX This one fared even worse, getting destroyed by HPE after the merger. It's long gone at this point, being mentioned only because it was once huge and ran on the vendor's own architecture. Support ended on 2012-Dec-31. SOLARIS/SPARC Sun was the king of Unix, no doubt about it. No one expected much more progress after the Oracle acquisition, and Oracle did not disappoint, cutting about 2,500 Solaris and Sparc engineers in 2017. They've promised to offer "support" until 2034, but it's clear nothing else is happening in this space. OpenSolaris afficionados are bravely sallying forth with the "IllumOS" fork, for whatever that's worth. If you want to be really sad, take a look at the "Oracle Hardware" site to see some crappy end-of-the-line models. If anything, Fujitsu's Sparc offerings might be the only future of this platform. AIX You can actually find IBM integrators claiming that "IBM AIX won the Unix Wars," and if you only count commercial Unix running on proprietary architectures, this is technically true. IBM POWER is still being actively developed, and Big Blue has promised to continue developing and supporting AIX until at least 2030. The decision to merge the OS/400 and RS/6000 lines to have a single platform for running three different operating systems put them into a decent position. I've never been a big fan of AIX or AS/400 but at least they're giving it a good effort and this platform will be around for a while yet. SGI/IRIX Oh boy. Some people loved these things, especially after the fsn file manager appeared in Jurassic Park. They were definitely ahead of their time, but support ended on 2013-Dec-31. They ran on a bunch of different architectures, but if you had to call one its "native" architecture, that would be MIPS -- which lived on as an embedded architecture until March 2021. Interestingly, MIPS current owner (Wave Technology) has joined the RISC-V foundation and future processor designs will be based on that architecture. DG/UX I know, this one died early, but I had my hands on it back in the day. I can't find an end of support date, but the last release of the operating system was 20 years ago. I always thought the Eclipse and AViiON computers were very cool. For those of you who don't know, Data General built the Clariion storage system to go with these machines, and that became a big part of EMC's midrange storage portfolio when they acquired Data General in 1999. A/UX , NeXTstep , Mac OS X Despite strong backing by one of the world's largest technology companies, this environment utterly failed in the server space and has been relegated to an also-ran in the desktop space. :) Ok, maybe that last one was an unnecessary jab, but I have a reputation to maintain. What's your take? Did I miss any important ones? Will PD post a ten-page screed about how bad things are inside Intel? Or better yet, share your war stories. Thank you and good night! ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099281282Mon, 01 Nov 2021 21:55:50 -00002099281282@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099280763Tue, 26 Oct 2021 13:13:36 -00002099280763@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099280705Mon, 25 Oct 2021 23:14:16 -00002099280705@Uncensored

Older article, but interesting. The roots of open UNIX

 

https://www.salon.com/2000/05/17/386bsd/

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099279349Fri, 08 Oct 2021 06:15:16 -00002099279349@Uncensored

Did I mention that I got my GOG version of the Gold Box SSI AD&D games installed and running on my Pi400+? 

They say they support Linux on certain Gog titles - but their installer only supports AMD/Intel Linux distros. But most of the titles that they say support Mac/Win/Linux are DosBox games. They wrap everything in a package and then launch it in DosBox on whichever platform. 

So I figured out how to install DosBox on Raspberry OS, then copied over the installed package from the GOG directory - and it works... pretty damn well - too. 

They should really make an ARM package that would support Pi... that has to be a huge untapped potential market for them. Tons of people with $115 computers who are craving commercial gaming experiences - and they're just leaving that money on the table. 

The cross platform DOSBox titles tend to be bargain titles too. All 6 SSI titles are in a bundle for $9.99. That is months of gameplay for $10. Sure, it is gameplay like it was 1999... but if all you've got is a Pi... you're probably OK with your titles being a little dated. 

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099279118Tue, 05 Oct 2021 14:00:44 -00002099279118@Uncensored

I have never really looked into BGP. ( never needed to ) But clearly at the scale they are, there are risks and they didnt plan ahead. 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099279116Tue, 05 Oct 2021 13:51:00 -00002099279116@UncensoredBGP is nice but it >sounds a bit overkill :) Apparently, facebook agrees with you BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA BGP is second-nature to me because I'm a data center architect and I use it all the time. I actually *don't* have a big network at home, and I wanted to be careful to make sure that if the Pi goes off the air, everything just reverts to being "a regular home network". ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099279106Tue, 05 Oct 2021 10:49:01 -00002099279106@Uncensored

I have found YT useful for a few things

 

Training videos and finding new music being the 2 biggest ones.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099279092Tue, 05 Oct 2021 07:04:55 -00002099279092@Uncensored 2021-10-04 09:27 from IGnatius T Foobar >Yes, most ad blockers will take care of YouTube at the desktop, and on >Android there's "YouTube Vanced" which is a hacked client that skips >the ads (and allows you to turn off the screen to listen to audio >only). > I solved the problem of Youtube ads by not watching Youtube. If somebody sends me a link to a video I absolutely should see I may use youtube-dl and that's it. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099279091Tue, 05 Oct 2021 07:02:18 -00002099279091@Uncensored The reason I've always been hesitant to deploy PiHole is that if the >PiHole server stops working, your entire network stops working. But >I've created a clever way around that. > I think I would have just set a second DNS server up and used a protocol like CARP to get some failover for DNS. BGP is nice but it sounds a bit overkill :) ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099279006Mon, 04 Oct 2021 13:27:42 -00002099279006@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099278966Sun, 03 Oct 2021 21:08:23 -00002099278966@Uncensored

i have some plugin with chrome that blocks YT ads. 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099278965Sun, 03 Oct 2021 20:00:16 -00002099278965@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099278964Sun, 03 Oct 2021 19:58:49 -00002099278964@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099278835Fri, 01 Oct 2021 22:37:43 -00002099278835@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099277648Fri, 17 Sep 2021 20:11:13 -00002099277648@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099277629Fri, 17 Sep 2021 16:28:23 -00002099277629@Uncensored 2021-09-16 22:32 from IGnatius T Foobar >Heh. It looks like there are some people who are part of a "just use >GTK and let them deal with it" camp. That would work, but it would be >nice to go native if they can. Then again, people sure do like their If you read the whole thread there are some comments about how wayland natively does much less than X did. So implementing "native wayland" doesn't implement all the extra protocols that you need to talk to your desktop environment do window resizing or drag/drop or whatever. That's all GTK. I'm not enough of an internal expert to know one way or the other, but I can see how if Java were to go with GTK, they might need to submit a fair number of patches to GTK to expose all the lower-level stuff they need. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099277610Fri, 17 Sep 2021 13:40:37 -00002099277610@Uncensored

No comment.

 

:) 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099277565Fri, 17 Sep 2021 02:32:10 -00002099277565@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099277562Fri, 17 Sep 2021 00:25:56 -00002099277562@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099277449Wed, 15 Sep 2021 15:21:21 -00002099277449@Uncensored All in all, I think they managed the transition pretty smoothly. Most >users are just going to be upgraded to Wayland in some upgrade in the >near future and they won't even know the difference. There's still a bit of annoying flicker in certain Java apps that use tooltip-like windows over Xwayland. So the X compatibility is not perfect, yet. Almost but not quite. Java is not going to be a native Wayland stack any time soon. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099277325Tue, 14 Sep 2021 00:40:40 -00002099277325@Uncensored

Funny. Decided to reach out to Andy Valencia to see if hes still around. ...he is..  nice to hear from someone from that far back in the past. Sort of like being around here, from the old days.  A lot of us are not at this point.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099277322Mon, 13 Sep 2021 23:57:03 -00002099277322@Uncensored

This could be nostalgia too, but i miss the days when i was running VSTa and MGR. Far simpler times. 

Who knows, after i retire i may just turn it all off. 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099277319Mon, 13 Sep 2021 23:31:18 -00002099277319@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099276638Tue, 07 Sep 2021 07:51:00 -00002099276638@Uncensored 2021-09-06 11:35 from Nurb432 >Well this is neat. x86 emulation for ARM64.  It only will run linux >binaries so its not a 'true' emulator, and uses native ARM >interfaces/libraries to improve speed. ( so i guess sort of like wine >is for windows binaries ) Not sure why i never noticed this before.  >Could be beneficial to a lot of people.  > >  > >https://github.com/ptitSeb/box64 > It looks useful for running printers with propietary plugins that are only released for x86 :) ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099276619Mon, 06 Sep 2021 21:23:11 -00002099276619@Uncensored

well first try failed miserably.  Missing libraries and things that the apps need ( both 'regular' binary and an appimage.. the last 2 things i care about that has not been ported, happens to be one of each ).  Don't feel like looking into how you add libraries to the 'emulation' tonight. Tired.  But its interesting enough i will try soon.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099276615Mon, 06 Sep 2021 21:03:01 -00002099276615@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099276595Mon, 06 Sep 2021 16:52:17 -00002099276595@Uncensored

Agreed that in the past it was about all about low power consumption and 'just enough horsepower to get the job done', but those days are gone and its not the only reason for ARM.  Today's higher end arm is competitive.  Most people that this would target are using mid-range arm now, which can compete against lower end x86. 

The point for this is that some things ( i guess mostly games, which while i think are silly, i guess i'm going to benefit from that market ) are still targeted to x86, so this gives those of us ahead of the platform curve the ability to run them until they are migrated over native ( it will happen, and for better or worse Apple will drive that migration ).   I also think that since they are only supporting linux x86 and some tricks, its not going to be a slow experience like a true emulator. 

Im working on completing it on a RK3399 now since its directly supported, and finding something i can compare apples to apples on. Then ill try it on one my Jetsons which eat RK's for breakfast. Perhaps a nano next, since its also directly supported, then try the NX.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099276583Mon, 06 Sep 2021 16:10:12 -00002099276583@Uncensored

So...

Arm is inherently less powerful at the top end than Intel architecture. It is superior in MIPS per Watt - it is literally considered "low powered computing" and that is what makes it ideal for mobile devices.

I mean, you can make a 6 cyl. engine faster than a larger, more powerful V8.

So, this is the ability to emulate a more powerful architecture on a less powerful architecture?

And only Linux stuff, that we can assume, is already supported natively by the various flavors of Linux you can get for ARM already?

I'm not sure I get it, other than to show it can be done?

 

Mon Sep 06 2021 11:35:22 EDT from Nurb432

Well this is neat. x86 emulation for ARM64.  It only will run linux binaries so its not a 'true' emulator, and uses native ARM interfaces/libraries to improve speed. ( so i guess sort of like wine is for windows binaries ) Not sure why i never noticed this before.  Could be beneficial to a lot of people. 

 

https://github.com/ptitSeb/box64

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099276578Mon, 06 Sep 2021 15:35:22 -00002099276578@Uncensored

Well this is neat. x86 emulation for ARM64.  It only will run linux binaries so its not a 'true' emulator, and uses native ARM interfaces/libraries to improve speed. ( so i guess sort of like wine is for windows binaries ) Not sure why i never noticed this before.  Could be beneficial to a lot of people. 

 

https://github.com/ptitSeb/box64

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099276516Sun, 05 Sep 2021 20:26:21 -00002099276516@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099276437Sat, 04 Sep 2021 13:21:25 -00002099276437@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099276270Thu, 02 Sep 2021 20:03:04 -00002099276270@Uncensored

Doing it al by hand, or something like portainer?

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099276233Thu, 02 Sep 2021 13:00:07 -00002099276233@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099275221Mon, 23 Aug 2021 01:16:15 -00002099275221@UncensoredI'm wondering about. What are the benefits of running a single node >Kubernetes cluster? That's not how it would be in production, of That useful as a local-work solution for developer laptops. Otherwise, I wouldn't do it that way because I think you'll have to throw a lot of it away when you move to something bigger. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099275116Sat, 21 Aug 2021 21:40:22 -00002099275116@Uncensored

Assuming this is your sandbox, i would still stick with what is there in production, just smaller, just to be consistent.

May not 'need' it but it helps with building muscle memory.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099275112Sat, 21 Aug 2021 21:25:27 -00002099275112@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099274652Sun, 15 Aug 2021 23:23:36 -00002099274652@Uncensored

Seems it was released this weekend. I missed the announcement somehow. Was upgrading an old ARM box to use as temp VPN server at a friends office "buster.. bla bla.. changed to old-stable"

Went to Debian to check, yup, its released. 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099274648Sun, 15 Aug 2021 18:24:28 -00002099274648@Uncensored

I like Linux and BSD, but I'll admit it can be a learning curve. With Linux you spend a lot of time trying to learn about and control it, with Windows it spends a lot of time trying to learn about and control you :)

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099274053Sun, 08 Aug 2021 21:56:10 -00002099274053@Uncensored

Installed docker on one of my RK3399s, for when you are ready for people to test :)

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099274016Sun, 08 Aug 2021 17:58:57 -00002099274016@Uncensored

I have done it before.  I think if you use compose instead of just grabbing an image it complains about architecture, but i have downloaded pre-built images that didnt seem to care.

A thought too, what about instead of packaging actual binaries, it automatically runs the easy install script on first start? Sure, takes a little longer, but would be 100% current that way and less 'support' to make it work?   ( might be a bad idea, just a passing thought )

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099274013Sun, 08 Aug 2021 17:21:37 -00002099274013@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099273847Sat, 07 Aug 2021 00:29:06 -00002099273847@Uncensored

Armbian site has been down for hours..  i hope this is not a sign they shut the project down!   Tried to do an update on one of my pinebook pro..  got errors .. tried the website to see if they had some downtime scheduled.  gone...

 

arrrgh. 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099273659Wed, 04 Aug 2021 19:58:53 -00002099273659@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099273538Tue, 03 Aug 2021 13:56:21 -00002099273538@Uncensored

There's also some mention of the accelerated drivers for GPU virtualization. If they really wanted GPU acceleration to run at native or near-native speed, they could not be using the RDP compositor, so I'm unclear on the extent to which those beta accelerated WSL GPU drivers (now available for Intel, AMD, and Nvidia) really speed up desktop OpenGL use-cases rather than merely CUDA

I read it too, and it seemed like they were using RDP as a proxy between the Linux and Windows side of the compositor, but over a special channel that allows shared memory instead of just serializing everything through the main connection.

Ironically, this is *exactly* how X11 clients access the compositor   :)

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099273494Mon, 02 Aug 2021 20:50:36 -00002099273494@Uncensored

Agreed. There have been some genuine improvements that have made Linux a much more accessible platform. 

And then there were changes made that seemed to be just for the sake of not doing it the same old way anymore. 

 

Mon Aug 02 2021 15:54:34 EDT from Nurb432

And really im not opposed to change or improvement.  its just the common thread of 'lets reinvent the wheel' mentality you see a lot in the UNIX world irritates me, even when its not warranted and simple improvement would have been fine.. Most often times you lose things in that re-invention. Either due to agenda, or inexperience of why it worked that way.  Just because its shiny and new, does not make it better.

 

Sometimes just painting the wheel and some new lug nuts is all you needed.. 

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099273489Mon, 02 Aug 2021 19:54:34 -00002099273489@Uncensored

And really im not opposed to change or improvement.  its just the common thread of 'lets reinvent the wheel' mentality you see a lot in the UNIX world irritates me, even when its not warranted and simple improvement would have been fine.. Most often times you lose things in that re-invention. Either due to agenda, or inexperience of why it worked that way.  Just because its shiny and new, does not make it better.

 

Sometimes just painting the wheel and some new lug nuts is all you needed.. 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099273485Mon, 02 Aug 2021 19:46:23 -00002099273485@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099273479Mon, 02 Aug 2021 18:46:57 -00002099273479@Uncensored

See, us pessimists win again :P 

 

Mon Aug 02 2021 02:41:16 PM EDT from LoanShark

So maybe it's not the panacea I was hoping for.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099273478Mon, 02 Aug 2021 18:41:16 -00002099273478@Uncensored WSL-G actually uses the RDP compositor, establishing a session between >the Linux and Windows sides of the machine, but with some performance >hacks to use shared memory instead of a TCP connection. This gets the >job done, but I think if they are serious about it they should be >working on a native Wayland compositor that writes directly to the >Windows desktop. Hmm, yeah, we talked about this a while back, and I had forgotten. There's also some mention of the accelerated drivers for GPU virtualization. If they really wanted GPU acceleration to run at native or near-native speed, they could not be using the RDP compositor, so I'm unclear on the extent to which those beta accelerated WSL GPU drivers (now available for Intel, AMD, and Nvidia) really speed up desktop OpenGL use-cases rather than merely CUDA :( So maybe it's not the panacea I was hoping for. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099273257Fri, 30 Jul 2021 11:05:33 -00002099273257@Uncensored 2021-07-26 13:53 from Nurb432 >My understanding from the beginning that it removes all the reasons X >exists, trying to turn *nix into |yet another lame desktop os".  ( >remote graphic calls and such ) > >I stopped reading at that point and was against it. > Wayland essentially has the client program draw itself and only places the drawn frames on the screen. So Wayland is orders of magnitude simpler than your regular X11, because it pushes all the complexity on the clients. Wayland is like ipv6. Everybody agrees the predecessor is a dinosaur but I am not convinced the new alternative is up to it. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099273150Wed, 28 Jul 2021 23:10:00 -00002099273150@Uncensored

Yes, across SSH at least. Individual apps. ( chrome, since you mention browser. for a while i was using it to run cura, since there was no recent build possible on arm, only X86. ) I have not used XDM forever as if i want a desktop i would x2go as its bandwidth friendly ( and before that nomachine, which is what its based on ).  ( one of my list of things to improve.  low bandwidth X, never quite got there, at least not that i saw ) 

Perhaps the underlying mechanism has been ruined, ill take your word for it. I honestly have not been looking that close at code or following any of their mailing lists. I only remember reading about wayland and its goals to 'desktopify' X and was annoyed at it and not looked since. But from a 'use' standpoint, X works the same, for me.

Wed Jul 28 2021 05:54:59 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Have you tried remoting a large application like a browser over a remote X session lately? It doesn't work anymore.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099273143Wed, 28 Jul 2021 21:54:59 -00002099273143@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099273052Tue, 27 Jul 2021 20:51:35 -00002099273052@Uncensored

"but what about remoting"  that is part of my argument against it. its not about remote, its about running an application remotely and having it send actual draw commands back. Not just some lame RDP framebuffer thing, but actual draw commands that take advantage of whatever video hardware you have, while the rest of the app hums away on whatever CPU it has on the 'server'. ( i know, technically the app is the client... client/server concepts are flipped, and i know why but its still confusing )

Ok, being able to have a single app render across and not be forced an entire desktop, it is nice that they listened to people like me and adapted, but if its still RDP/frame buffer crap on the back end i'm still not interested.

Sure, i may not be the majority. Never have been, but this is about me and why i hate it :)

And im not going to say X did not have any issues and could not be improved. Of course it could. But same as i feel about SysD, init should have been improved, not tossed out the window for some backwards thinking monolithic binary blob.

( and its a migrane day so i may sound a bit shorter than normal. Sorry for that up front )

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099273049Tue, 27 Jul 2021 20:34:11 -00002099273049@Uncensored

Sort of.

Its going to push me back to 100% bsd.  The only real reason im in Linux land now is due to driers, mainly NVIDIA.   

Tue Jul 27 2021 09:17:13 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

You can compare it to systemd in another way, then: Wayland is happening whether you like it or not, so you'd better get used to it.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099273009Tue, 27 Jul 2021 13:17:13 -00002099273009@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099272946Mon, 26 Jul 2021 17:53:13 -00002099272946@Uncensored

My understanding from the beginning that it removes all the reasons X exists, trying to turn *nix into |yet another lame desktop os".  ( remote graphic calls and such )

I stopped reading at that point and was against it.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099272936Mon, 26 Jul 2021 16:48:10 -00002099272936@Uncensored 2021-07-26 12:44 from Nurb432 >Something else that should have never happened. > >Its as bad as sysD. besides the fact that it's taken far too long to implement, the last time I checked, it has both benefits and drawbacks. if you are using a window environment that does compositing, especially one where the compositing cannot be turned off, Wayland will be far more efficient than X. (Personal experience: try opening about 50+ openoffice windows in a batch, and see which environment runs out of memory and which does not. openoffice/libreoffice now target gtk2 so can function as a native wayland client *or* an X client.) *but* for applications that cannot be ported from X to Wayland any time soon (*cough* Java *cough*), Xwayland has a few glitches. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099272934Mon, 26 Jul 2021 16:44:29 -00002099272934@Uncensored

Something else that should have never happened.

Its as bad as sysD.

 

Mon Jul 26 2021 12:38:03 PM EDT from LoanShark

(look what happened with Wayland)

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099272931Mon, 26 Jul 2021 16:38:03 -00002099272931@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099272883Mon, 26 Jul 2021 01:08:19 -00002099272883@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099272861Sun, 25 Jul 2021 16:02:51 -00002099272861@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099272790Sat, 24 Jul 2021 15:36:29 -00002099272790@Uncensored

Dont make us lose faith in you. 

 

:)

Sat Jul 24 2021 11:27:53 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

But if they got it running on Windows Server I might consider doing the unthinkable.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099272788Sat, 24 Jul 2021 15:27:53 -00002099272788@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099272655Thu, 22 Jul 2021 20:33:22 -00002099272655@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099272654Thu, 22 Jul 2021 20:09:02 -00002099272654@Uncensored

Some. I know im not among that group. :)

Trying to figure out how to get mac at the office and get mine upgraded before they are all M1 chips. So i can run Linux and have a windows VM ( not  be stuck with an emulator .. )

Thu Jul 22 2021 03:13:16 PM EDT from LoanShark

 This might finally be what some of us have been waiting for.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099272649Thu, 22 Jul 2021 19:13:16 -00002099272649@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099266179Mon, 24 May 2021 21:02:09 -00002099266179@UncensoredI guess that's sort of what you mean by atomically locked. I was thinking more about RAM than about storage. Unlike storage, RAM is constantly changing at less-predictable times. What I mean by that is you don't need to perform an explicit kernel call to change RAM, you just change RAM. So there's a race condition between computing a hash of a page, identifying another page with the same hash, and merging them. Unless one were to set a readonly bit on each page prior to computing the hash--a page fault handler would then have to catch the write attempt and invalidate any hashes before the next dedup interval. This is at least a little bit slower than not bothering with any of this. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099266013Sat, 22 May 2021 23:54:45 -00002099266013@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099265960Sat, 22 May 2021 01:21:45 -00002099265960@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099265585Wed, 19 May 2021 15:47:54 -00002099265585@Uncensored

Dedup across kernel level VMs... not sure im fond of that from a security standpoint.

 

Id have to think about that some.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099265583Wed, 19 May 2021 15:44:45 -00002099265583@UncensoredI remember something about generic dedup of ram at one point on >servers, so it would cover most anything 'running'. Unless it was >vaporware That's about right. It's called "Kernel Samepage Merging" [KSM] and landed in the kernel in 2.6.32. [ https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/mm/ksm.html ] It only operates on regions of memory which have been registered by a userspace program to qualify for deduplication. This can make sense, for example, when a hypervisor such as KVM knows it is running multiple instances of the same operating system image; it can then activate KSM on those memory regions and the kernel will dedupe the identical pages. There is a project called "Ultra Kernel Samepage Merging" [UKSM] which eliminates the requirement for userspace processes to cooperatively submit memory regions for deduplication. [ https://github.com/dolohow/uksm ] This looks interesting but it has not been accepted into the mainline kernel. If something like this were to be come ubiquitous, one could run many different static-linked programs that use the same libraries, and the kernel would dedupe out the memory used by the libraries. When building the static-linked programs, the linker would need to make sure the libraries are aligned on page boundaries so they dedupe properly. It might already do that. Something like this is probably inevitable. Mobile operating systems already use self-contained applications by default, and such a style of deployment is at least available on general-purpose operating systems -- DMG on MacOS, "Modern" runtime on Windows, and AppImage on Linux. Optimizing the OS to run these would seem to be the next logical step. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099265546Wed, 19 May 2021 11:18:57 -00002099265546@Uncensored

Everything is a game of tradeoffs.  But i think the tradeoffs are worth it.

Wed May 19 2021 04:09:12 AM EDT from darknetuser

So I think both models have their place but I don't really buy the model of serving programs as a package that includes all its dependencies for general use.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099265545Wed, 19 May 2021 11:18:25 -00002099265545@Uncensored

I remember something about generic dedup of ram at one point on servers, so it would cover most anything 'running'. Unless it was vaporware

And dedup for files does exist. ( so one concern i had in the past is gone, between obscenely cheap space and dedup.. )

Wed May 19 2021 04:10:50 AM EDT from darknetuser

In fact I have heard word of this but I don't know in which state of development this sort of deduplication is.

 

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099265532Wed, 19 May 2021 08:10:50 -00002099265532@Uncensored The downside of this strategy is that if two or more programs are >using the same version of the same library, you still have to load it >into memory twice. > We had a conversation about this a few months ago, I think. Ideally >you build some sort of deduplication layer into the kernel's virtual >memory manager. In fact I have heard word of this but I don't know in which state of development this sort of deduplication is. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099265531Wed, 19 May 2021 08:09:12 -00002099265531@Uncensored 2021-05-17 16:11 from Nurb432 >The one thing that apple did early on that i did like, was they did >not use shared libraries for apps.  They were encapsulated into the >folder.  > That is a complete can of worms. Since you have opened, let me have fun with them. I have been recently been working with a program that is distributed bundled with its own set of libraries. 10 minutes of vulnerability scanning showed up the program has a potential vulnerability related to the libraries that come bundled with it. In the regular BSD/CLinux universe, you would run $update_pkg $library (or roll your own) and be done with it. When the library comes bundled with an AppImage or a static tarball or whatever, you have to rebuild your own. This is doable, but then it is not convenient anymore, and static programs distributed like this are distributed this way because they are supposed to be convenient. So I think both models have their place but I don't really buy the model of serving programs as a package that includes all its dependencies for general use. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099265530Wed, 19 May 2021 08:03:09 -00002099265530@Uncensored >And of course since i'm really in the Daemon camp by nature, i'm not >"rooting" for penguin, even tho i think its a better choice for most >people than what Microsoft offers. ( and has been for a long time )  >Us *BSD people do accept our system's limitations, and work to >overcome them.  > Well fucking said. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099265529Wed, 19 May 2021 08:00:13 -00002099265529@Uncensored 2021-05-17 08:31 from Nurb432 >Sort of surprised they wont at least accept ODF.  its universal too. > Some do, but most will shove the file up your ass if you send them an ODF. ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Linux%20UNIX%20BSD%20etc.?start_reading_at=2099265483Tue, 18 May 2021 18:00:43 -00002099265483@Uncensored

Well, it really isn't fair to blame Linux. 

Tue May 18 2021 11:25:34 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Blah blah blah. Failure to get Linux running properly on a computer is a failure of the person, maybe a failure of the computer, never a failure of Linux.

lol 

Yeah, I attempted a very early release of Slackware on CD... and went, "Well, this has a ways to go..." 

Things have certainly improved. 

Tue May 18 2021 08:43:28 EDT from Nurb432

Kids these days and their fancy distributions. :)    I remember talking to Linus on Usenet back before it would even self-host and required Minix to compile..  :)     

And the wonderful boot/root floppies from that time period, where you hex edited the boot sector to get it to run on YOUR hardware. 

 

Once we got to the point of actual distributions, i was with SLS ( "soft landing system", if i remember right ) until something called Yggdrasil came along. It was actually commercial ( which i bought ), and had a graphic installer AND setup X for you, which was a royal pain in the ass back then. Back then X was soo much trouble that i actually ( with some help as i was not a C expert, i knew enough to be dangerous ) ported MGR to Linux for my own use.  I used that with vSTA and liked it a lot. Of course this was pre-WWW, or at least WWW didnt matter yet. 

But something happened and a critical point was reached and it all just 'exploded' and it all took off exponentially. 

Once things calmed down a bit during the heyday of the 'wild west' i ended up with Debian too, as it was the most like *bsd.  Used to go in to local college at 2 am with a box of floppies to get latest versions..   Trying to do it at home on a 14k dial-up via SLIP on Kermit, would take days and days. But the computer lab" was open 24/7 and had a friend that went to school there so we had an ID if ever stopped. ( never were ). And free parking at night in the garages :) 

 

Well, that brought back some memories. 

Kids these days and their fancy distributions. :)    I remember talking to Linus on Usenet back before it would even self-host and required Minix to compile..  :)     

And the wonderful boot/root floppies from that time period, where you hex edited the boot sector to get it to run on YOUR hardware. 

Once we got to the point of actual distributions, i was with SLS ( "soft landing system", if i remember right ) until something called Yggdrasil came along. It was actually commercial ( which i bought ), and had a graphic installer AND setup X for you, which was a royal pain in the ass back then. Back then X was soo much trouble that i actually ( with some help as i was not a C expert, i knew enough to be dangerous ) ported MGR to Linux for my own use.  I used that with vSTA and liked it a lot. Of course this was pre-WWW, or at least WWW didnt matter yet. 

But something happened and a critical point was reached and it all just 'exploded' and it all took off exponentially. 

Once things calmed down a bit during the heyday of the 'wild west' i ended up with Debian too, as it was the most like *bsd.  Used to go in to local college at 2 am with a box of floppies to get latest versions..   Trying to do it at home on a 14k dial-up via SLIP on Kermit, would take days and days. But the computer lab" was open 24/7 and had a friend that went to school there so we had an ID if ever stopped. ( never were ). And free parking at night in the garages :) 

Well, that brought back some memories. 

I'm actually a Debian guy - and have been since Potato and Sarge. I've custom compiled kernels - and frankly - I think it was the first *decent* distro - and primarily because the apt package manager made it POSSIBLE for someone without a programming level knowledge of *nix to have a shot at getting *most* things installed. Debian pushed *nix ahead light-years - and RedHat and all the others still kinda suck by comparison. Ubuntu is even *better* for mainstream users - and is one of the biggest reason why the quality of user in Debian has gone down to where you encounter Linux users who seem like they would be more at home in Windows when you read their questions. I even find *myself* going, "RTFM, noob!" sometimes, now. 

But the biggest obstacle to Linux actually mattering outside of in circles like this - is Linux itself. Although I suspect circles like this really kind of prefer it that way. I think they like to "know" that Linux is better, but that MOST of the world is too dumb to realize

Mon May 17 2021 11:53:55 EDT from Nurb432

And with softies too :) 

/me ducks

 

Kidding aside, oftentimes "better" is relative, and even if you are on top of the stack, there is still room for improvement.  I doubt any fanboy feels that things *cant* be improved, just that it may not be worth the effort for such a small change.

And of course since i'm really in the Daemon camp by nature, i'm not "rooting" for penguin, even tho i think its a better choice for most people than what Microsoft offers. ( and has been for a long time )  Us *BSD people do accept our system's limitations, and work to overcome them. 

 

Mon May 17 2021 11:12:19 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

So it goes with Linux devotees. 

 

 

Sure, there were/are downsides of resource 'waste' but id rather have that disadvantage than DLL hell..  And as much as i hate to say it  ( i'm not one of those normally )  with modern hardware it would be less of an issue than it was in the old days.

Mon May 17 2021 04:20:29 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

That's correct. Mac OS "DMG" format is equivalent to an Android APK, or a Linux AppImage. It carries all of its dependencies around with it and gets soft-mounted to the filesystem during execution.

The downside of this strategy is that if two or more programs are using the same version of the same library, you still have to load it into memory twice.
We had a conversation about this a few months ago, I think. Ideally you build some sort of deduplication layer into the kernel's virtual memory manager.
That's probably coming eventually. In that kind of world you don't even need shared libraries anymore, you just static link everything.

Microsoft solved the centralized management problem but they also created it. When personal computers were springing up like weeds all over IT shops, those shops already knew how to manage applications and users on centralized hosts.

The one thing that apple did early on that i did like, was they did not use shared libraries for apps.  They were encapsulated into the folder. 

I'm of course not in that world any more but i am pretty sure that changed, but at least at one point it worked that way.  Sure it wasted space, but it was far safer, and made moving apps around a lot easier.

And while i hate to give MS any credit, they at least thought about centralized management earlier, where apple did not and didnt have the 'enterprise mentality' for a long time ( do they really have it now? ). Unix, you could do it due to the nature of things, but it was not by design.          ( all are much better now of course ).  I honestly cant remember about OS/2 as when i was working with it, we didnt do any real management of the devices and treated them all as standalone. 

Of course those are my opinions, nothing based in hard facts or reality. 

Mon May 17 2021 03:54:53 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Windows also failed on the desktop because it's harder to configure than a Mac.

Feh.

 

Windows also failed on the desktop because it's harder to configure than a Mac.

Feh.