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[#] Mon Sep 06 2021 17:23:11 EDT from Nurb432

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well first try failed miserably.  Missing libraries and things that the apps need ( both 'regular' binary and an appimage.. the last 2 things i care about that has not been ported, happens to be one of each ).  Don't feel like looking into how you add libraries to the 'emulation' tonight. Tired.  But its interesting enough i will try soon.



[#] Tue Sep 07 2021 03:51:00 EDT from darknetuser

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2021-09-06 11:35 from Nurb432
Well this is neat. x86 emulation for ARM64.  It only will run linux
binaries so its not a 'true' emulator, and uses native ARM
interfaces/libraries to improve speed. ( so i guess sort of like wine
is for windows binaries ) Not sure why i never noticed this before. 
Could be beneficial to a lot of people. 

 

https://github.com/ptitSeb/box64


It looks useful for running printers with propietary plugins that are only released for x86 :)

[#] Mon Sep 13 2021 19:31:18 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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So, here I am on my main desktop running the Wayland display server. I suppose it's a good thing that the experience is indistinguishable from X. Everything "just works" -- but I suppose a lot of that has to do with the fact that a rootless Xwayland server is running, so anything that needs X will go through that.

I have been playing around to see what works without X, by doing "unset DISPLAY" and then running various programs from the command line. Most of the system apps seem to be fine. My browser is Brave, which is a Chromium derivative; it wants to run in X by default, but I found that if you do "[browser_name] --enable-features=UseOzonePlatform --ozone-platform=wayland" it will use Wayland instead. According to [ https://tinyurl.com/yhznexse ] the new renderers will be enabled by default in Chromium-derived browsers in the next version, so it'll probably do that by default.

All in all, I think they managed the transition pretty smoothly. Most users are just going to be upgraded to Wayland in some upgrade in the near future and they won't even know the difference.

[#] Mon Sep 13 2021 19:57:03 EDT from Nurb432

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This could be nostalgia too, but i miss the days when i was running VSTa and MGR. Far simpler times. 

Who knows, after i retire i may just turn it all off. 



[#] Mon Sep 13 2021 20:40:40 EDT from Nurb432

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Funny. Decided to reach out to Andy Valencia to see if hes still around. ...he is..  nice to hear from someone from that far back in the past. Sort of like being around here, from the old days.  A lot of us are not at this point.



[#] Wed Sep 15 2021 11:21:21 EDT from LoanShark

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All in all, I think they managed the transition pretty smoothly. Most

users are just going to be upgraded to Wayland in some upgrade in the

near future and they won't even know the difference.

There's still a bit of annoying flicker in certain Java apps that use tooltip-like windows over Xwayland. So the X compatibility is not perfect, yet. Almost but not quite.

Java is not going to be a native Wayland stack any time soon.

[#] Thu Sep 16 2021 20:25:56 EDT from LoanShark

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Here's a link into the middle of a thread on a possible Java/Wayland port:

https://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/discuss/2021-July/005855.html

They're still at the phase of figuring out which toolkits to use:

"And I think the first phase of the project needs to be an investigation

of the alternatives
and consideration of how well it matches all the requirements.
I would not want to see a "code first, figure it out later" approach.

This is going to be discussed in committee for a year before the project even starts ;)

[#] Thu Sep 16 2021 22:32:10 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Heh. It looks like there are some people who are part of a "just use GTK and let them deal with it" camp. That would work, but it would be nice to go native if they can. Then again, people sure do like their shortcuts. I'm still puzzled over the decision made by the WSL people to do Wayland using memory-mapped RDP instead of just making the compositor draw directly on the desktop.

[#] Fri Sep 17 2021 09:40:37 EDT from Nurb432

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No comment.

 

:) 



[#] Fri Sep 17 2021 12:28:23 EDT from LoanShark

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2021-09-16 22:32 from IGnatius T Foobar
Heh. It looks like there are some people who are part of a "just use

GTK and let them deal with it" camp. That would work, but it would be

nice to go native if they can. Then again, people sure do like their


If you read the whole thread there are some comments about how wayland natively does much less than X did. So implementing "native wayland" doesn't implement all the extra protocols that you need to talk to your desktop environment do window resizing or drag/drop or whatever. That's all GTK.

I'm not enough of an internal expert to know one way or the other, but I can see how if Java were to go with GTK, they might need to submit a fair number of patches to GTK to expose all the lower-level stuff they need.

[#] Fri Sep 17 2021 16:11:13 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Right. And as I recall, part of the thinking behind Wayland was that they did *not* want to put a high-level graphics toolkit into it, because it would become obsolete like the graphics primitives in X11 did, but they'd be obligated to carry it around as technical debt forevermore. GTK and Qt don't use those graphics primitives; they instead draw on the canvas using libraries such as Cairo and Pango which can be upgraded at will.

And that might end up being the middle ground. GTK renders to Wayland by telling Cairo and Pango to draw on EGL surfaces, so perhaps Java could do the same thing.

Or I could be completely wrong -- it's been a long time since I've written a GUI program in Java.

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