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[#] Thu Jul 24 2014 09:59:45 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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(and just so nobody feels singled out :-P)

Explaining that he has also previously witnessed Palestinians cheering news of bombings that killed Israelis, Mr. Sorensen said that in a war, .this is what happens.. Civilians and fighters on both sides, he said, .go through a process of dehumanizing the enemy..

[#] Fri Jul 25 2014 04:16:27 EDT from triLcat @ Uncensored

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And still, despite all that, he talks about maybe a dozen people. 

bear in mind, too, that what the IAF is targeting from the air is rocket launchers, not people. After 14 years of rockets, you'd cheer the destruction of those launchers, too.



[#] Fri Jul 25 2014 09:13:00 EDT from Freakdog @ Dog Pound BBS II

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Alas...a lot of this falls on deaf ears.

The world thinks that we (Jews) are simply happy to see the IDF/IAF blowing up "Paliestinian" civilians. They don't look at the reality of what Hamas (and their ilk) does by launching their attacks in the way they do., convincing their civilians to stay where they are, all in the hopes that these civilian deaths will cause exactly the uproar and outcry that they do.

[#] Fri Jul 25 2014 11:26:21 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Here's a fun exercise.

Put FOX News and MSNBC on two screens next to each other, turn off the sound, and try not to read the captions.

Since FOX tends to show the terrorists firing rockets into Israel, and MSNBC tends to show Israel defending itself, one can squint a bit and imagine it's actually the two networks conducting warfare against each other.

And that's really what we need, folks: more rocket fire between television networks.

[#] Fri Jul 25 2014 11:45:06 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Sadly, it feels more like the networks are conducting wellfare against each other.

[#] Fri Jul 25 2014 13:57:30 EDT from Ladyhawke @ Uncensored

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It consistently amazes me that there is such a double standard when it comes to Israel.

First, Israel actually has and does take extraordinary measures to avoid innocent civilian deaths.  They not only leaflet areas where bombs will fall - sometimes *days* in advance to allow evacuation, but they also generate phone messages ahead of their strikes.  On top of all that, they also provide "a knock on the roof" on each building that they plan to destroy - ahead of the actual bomb - so that anyone inside can choose to leave before the bomb hits.  The fact that Hamas and gazans then choose to stay there and choose to force their children to stay there specifically so that they will be among the dead is not Israel's fault; it's Hamas' purposeful aim.  Nor is the fact that Hamas deliberately chooses to put their military apparatus in hospitals, schools, and other civilian locations (for the same reason).  All of which, I realize, you already know.

I would suspect that the home that was hiding Osama Bin Laden had civilian servants who died in our attack; pretty sure no one cared about them at all.  Certainly, our drone strikes not infrequently also injure civilians.  Britain fairly recently sent in airstrikes on Libya.  France *invaded* Mali.  Yet there is little to no outrage for any of these situations.  Did anyone see protests, fire-bombings, or lynch mob riots about the 13 civilian Pakistani's Obama's drone strike killed last month, for example?  Of course not.  And whatever we think of the "rightness" of the wars in Korea and Vietnam, those who served in them will tell you that they were often forced to strike entire villages, including women and children....not because (most of them) were psychopaths or even just hateful bastards, but because those same women and children were hunting them down with bombs and bullets at night while they slept.  None of this is to say that these are *good* things.  But that none of it is unique to the war with Hamas or that Israel is behaving in some humanity-depraved way that the rest of the world has found a way to forsake.

 

LS, Gaza is lobbing *hundreds* of missiles at Israel; they hit on a daily basis.  And they are not aimed at military locations or apparatus.  They are aimed at (real) schools, bustling city streets in Tel Aviv, Haifa, and Jerusalem, civilian airfields (not the military fields - the civilian ones), and a nuclear reactor that could easily take out parts of neighboring *Arab* countries/populations, as well as Israel.  They have used the humanitarian building supplies sent by both America and Israel not to build homes, schools, and hospitals - but to build a network of underground assault tunnels and deliberately transformed schools and hospitals into military targets in direct contravention of the Human Shields Protocols of the Geneva Conventions - which if Hamas really has any desire to be part of the world stage, they should be following.

Al Queda struck *2* of our buildings and downed 4 planes.  In return, the US launched a war against Iraq and a world-wide hunt that killed thousands of people along the way.  And we ALL cheered when Osama Bin Laden was murdered.  Myself included, frankly.  Because when someone has openly made it their mission in life to annihilate you (whatever their reasons), then unless you can defang them, annihilating them first is the only thing you can do unless you're willing to lie down and die.

Israel has an entire country's population hiding in bunkers with 15-30 seconds of notice multiple times per day - yet they send out leaflets and assiduously do what they can to minimize casualties, even while millions of people around the world condemn them for defending themselves.  Despite Israel actioning 3 ceasefires - all of which Hamas broke near immediately.

 

I'm not happy about the 600 or so deaths this war has already brought.  I don't like anything about this situation at all.  But hell if I'm going to condemn a sovereign country for taking defensive action against terrorist gorilla soldiers whose only aim is complete and utter genocide (which includes you, btw), even though there are sad/regrettable/insert-favorite-truly-felt-unhappiness-adjective-here casualties that are an unfortunate side effect of *every* warfare battle. 

And before you head down the "Israel is apartheid/hitler/occupationist/evil" road, I would refer you to the initiating link regarding Hamas' charter...that has nothing at all to do with occupation or checkpoints or walls - and everything to do with the absolute destruction of Israel and the killing of every Jew anywhere.  And that’s in *their* words, not the words of any individual or journalist slanted in either direction.



[#] Fri Jul 25 2014 19:14:12 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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LS, Gaza is lobbing *hundreds* of missiles at Israel; they hit on a

[snip]

I'll keep this brief: both sides are killing civilians. That has to stop just as soon as the IDF can achieve the objectives of degrading Hamas' launch facility and tunnels and whatnot. If not sooner. It's just gross that .il goes on a rampage and rips up the infrastructure (e.g. bombing the only power plant) every time the plebes get a little out of line.

Yeah, we know damn well that Hamas is launching rockets from schools and whatnot - even UN officials have admitted to that. Still. If all they're doing is launching largely ineffective rocket attacks, just to goad you into killing civilians, that's no reason to do any more damage than is necessary

[#] Sat Jul 26 2014 10:50:04 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

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one can squint a bit and
imagine it's actually the two networks conducting warfare against each
other.


News is entertainment to sell commercials, nothing more. You should know that Ignat, you got your start in TV
didn't you? Each network has a target audience they want to please to increase ratings.

[#] Sat Jul 26 2014 12:46:11 EDT from vince-q @ Uncensored

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didn't you? Each network has a target audience they want to please to increase
ratings.


Only a tiny thing you avoided, but *almost* stated.

Each network has a target audience they want to please... to ensure increased revenue to their advertisers.

[#] Sat Jul 26 2014 21:52:43 EDT from zooer @ Uncensored

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OK, I wont argue with that.,

[#] Mon Jul 28 2014 16:15:18 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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hell if I'm going to condemn a sovereign country for taking defensive
action against terrorist gorilla soldiers whose only aim is complete

I think you mean "guerilla" soldiers, not gorilla. To the best of my knowledge, Michelle Obama has *not* enlisted in Hamas forces, despite being an anti-Semite.

[#] Mon Jul 28 2014 16:23:34 EDT from vince-q @ Uncensored

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I think you mean "guerilla" soldiers, not gorilla. To the best of my

knowledge, Michelle Obama has *not* enlisted in Hamas forces, despite

being an anti-Semite.



,,,which naturally raises the issue of the existence of *two* dem-lib gorillas, the other being, obviously....

.......Hitlery!

[#] Tue Jul 29 2014 04:04:00 EDT from triLcat @ Uncensored

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Mon Jul 28 2014 16:23:34 EDT from vince-q @ Uncensored

I think you mean "guerilla" soldiers, not gorilla. To the best of my

knowledge, Michelle Obama has *not* enlisted in Hamas forces, despite

being an anti-Semite.



,,,which naturally raises the issue of the existence of *two* dem-lib gorillas, the other being, obviously....

.......Hitlery!

Nah - Hillary is a mad cow, but she's been sounding a whole lot better than Osama, Kerry, or Biden these days.

 



[#] Tue Jul 29 2014 07:49:02 EDT from Ladyhawke @ Uncensored

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Seems to me they're all a bunch of Grape Apes!

(and yes, IG, I meant guerilla, lol)



[#] Tue Jul 29 2014 12:46:05 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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hm, looks like the good old vietkong habbit of digging tunels was adopted & perfected by the hamas?

Gaza city could have a working subway by now if they had done something usefull with their time instead.



[#] Tue Jul 29 2014 13:06:30 EDT from triLcat @ Uncensored

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And all of their citizens could survive any airstrike if they were allowed to use the tunnels as shelters....

160 children were killed in digging those tunnels.

160 children were murdered by Hamas so that Hamas could more effectively murder Jews...

There is definitely a humanitarian crisis in Gaza.



[#] Tue Jul 29 2014 13:18:07 EDT from dothebart @ Uncensored

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Tue Jul 29 2014 13:06:30 EDT from triLcat @ Uncensored
160 children were killed in digging those tunnels.

hm, In which way is this known? I guess this alone could justify to invade gaza for humanitarian purposes.



[#] Tue Jul 29 2014 14:14:52 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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In war, that's what happens.

[#] Wed Jul 30 2014 08:21:05 EDT from triLcat @ Uncensored

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http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384004/child-labor-deaths-hamas-tunnels-are-no-surprise-spencer-case

LoanShark - in war, you kill your own children to help you with terrorist attacks?

When did America last use anyone under 16 for anything military-related? 



[#] Wed Jul 30 2014 09:18:10 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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When did we last have elections? Politicians use children regularly.

Although, I admit, I'm being very snarky. In the sense you mean, no... we don't tend to use our children that way. It's obscene enough how we use them to further political ends, though.

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