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[#] Wed Jun 30 2021 13:40:10 EDT from LoanShark

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2021-06-29 19:47 from Nurb432
LoL

Yeah, sometime in 2025, if the perma-lockdown crowd gets their way, right?

Here's the thing. Here, on Uncensored, I tend to argue in favor of public-health measures (when and where I think they're appropriate.)

On Facebook, all my friends are pretty liberal, because of where I'm from and what my activities are and who I can tolerate following. There, I tend to argue for "look, the risks aren't as bad as THAT."

Maybe I'm trying to find what I see as the sane center position--or maybe I'm just a contrarian.

[#] Wed Jun 30 2021 13:40:46 EDT from LoanShark

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On Facebook, all my friends are pretty liberal, because of where I'm


*most of my friends.

[#] Wed Jun 30 2021 14:47:39 EDT from Nurb432

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Oh, i'm good with logical measures for when something makes sense. "common sense" should prevail everyday.  Just here lately its not made much sense.  So much of what we have seen lately has been either hysteria feeding on panic, or manipulation based on politics. ( or both )

Wed Jun 30 2021 01:40:10 PM EDT from LoanShark
2021-06-29 19:47 from Nurb432
LoL

Yeah, sometime in 2025, if the perma-lockdown crowd gets their way, right?

Here's the thing. Here, on Uncensored, I tend to argue in favor of public-health measures (when and where I think they're appropriate.)

On Facebook, all my friends are pretty liberal, because of where I'm from and what my activities are and who I can tolerate following. There, I tend to argue for "look, the risks aren't as bad as THAT."

Maybe I'm trying to find what I see as the sane center position--or maybe I'm just a contrarian.

 



[#] Wed Jun 30 2021 16:12:14 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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The problem may be that instead of buying ourselves some time to develop a lifetime immunization with the vaccine - we went, "Good enough, open back up, we'll just give boosters every 6 months to a year, and Covid will be a cash-cow for the pharmaceuticals." 

Covid-19 is something we have to remove as a threat vector - completely or as near completely as other vaccinations that give basically lifetime immunity from disease or infection. 


I've been saying for a while, I think we're effed. I mean... I suppose one could argue that all of the diseases and infections we currently get, wear you down over a lifetime until eventually you die of complications resulting from reoccurring infections of the common cold or flu. That the culmination of repeated common, mild sicknesses eventually cause culminative degradation of health until one of them *gets* you - or parts start failing. 


But Covid-19 seems kind of like the meth of infectious disease. It accelerates the timeline from first exposure to severe side effects and finally related death from complications *rapidly*. You can drink yourself to death slowly over decades - but meth or heroin - the decline is usually rapid. Same analogy for flu or cold vs. Covid. 


If it starts skipping around and we're constantly in a reactive mode - eventually a very contagious and highly lethal mutation is almost inevitable. There will probably be hundreds of thousands globally who are naturally immune - and they'll rebuild society on the other side. 

 



[#] Wed Jun 30 2021 16:15:39 EDT from Nurb432

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I think the right answer was reduced contact, for people most at risk, and the rest of us, just dont lick each others eyeballs and use common sense. Those that get sick, most will recover and have real antibodies. Many will never get sick.

That small % that didnt survive, well, its called evolution.  Never pleasant, but its nature, and she can be cruel. 



[#] Wed Jun 30 2021 18:15:51 EDT from LoanShark

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2021-06-30 16:12 from ParanoidDelusions
The problem may be that instead of buying ourselves some time to
develop a lifetime immunization with the vaccine - we went, "Good
enough, open back up, we'll just give boosters every 6 months to a
year, and Covid will be a cash-cow for the pharmaceuticals." 

The thing is, we don't know that some degree of immunity *isn't* life-long, either from natural infection of vaccination or both (although I do believe that vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity.)

It's an empirical fact that antibody secretion wanes after natural infection with SARS-CoV-2, and this can happen very quickly in some people (like me.) But this doesn't mean there is no immunity.

Immunity to measles is life-long (because measles cannot mutate its F protein and remain viable.)

Flow cytometry experiments found that people exposed to the original SARS virus still had a T-cell immune response, decades after the fact.

A virologist I follow explains it this way: yeah, the antibody response may fade away. But memory B cells remain, and they are capable of restarting antibody secretion within hours of detecting a pathogen that they remember, as compared to primary infection where it takes a couple of weeks to evolve a strong antibody response.

A strong antibody response is the first line of defense--the foot soldiers--but it is not the only defense and not even essential, some patients who were genetically incapable of producing an antibody response were still able to fight off covid via T-cell response etc.

(This is me being *optimistic*, y'know?)

[#] Wed Jun 30 2021 19:38:08 EDT from Nurb432

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I wonder if the virus really came out in April 2019.  And Thanos was real..  Just not overly competent. 



[#] Sun Jul 04 2021 16:40:48 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Maybe I'm trying to find what I see as the sane center position--or maybe I'm just a contrarian.

Or maybe you're just capable of thinking for yourself.   Even if you don't land on the same conclusions as everyone else, that's still laudable.  (Or problematic to some.)



[#] Mon Jul 05 2021 16:56:46 EDT from Nurb432

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Visited mother today. Shes in a assisted care type of facility ( long story, she went in for rehab after getting knee surgery but just wont do what is needed to get out ).  ( reason i had to get the f-ing shots, they were banning people from visiting unless you had them )

On the way out, woman in a hallway asked to pet my dog. ( wheel chair bound, most of them in there are ) We went over, she introduced her stuffed animal to my dog. As we left she was talking to it "wasn't that a sweet dog".  I hate to see people like that. Nature can be cruel.



[#] Wed Jul 07 2021 13:39:21 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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It seems cruel to us. 

Maybe it is a very pleasant world, even a MORE pleasant world, that she perceives as her reality than we do in our clear and lucid one. 



Mon Jul 05 2021 16:56:46 EDT from Nurb432

Visited mother today. Shes in a assisted care type of facility ( long story, she went in for rehab after getting knee surgery but just wont do what is needed to get out ).  ( reason i had to get the f-ing shots, they were banning people from visiting unless you had them )

On the way out, woman in a hallway asked to pet my dog. ( wheel chair bound, most of them in there are ) We went over, she introduced her stuffed animal to my dog. As we left she was talking to it "wasn't that a sweet dog".  I hate to see people like that. Nature can be cruel.



 



[#] Wed Jul 07 2021 20:03:21 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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And, now, an opposing viewpoint: 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/brand-new-tube/

But, who cares if they're a tin foil hat site, the last news clip was compelling. Even the Enquirer can get it right one time out of a thousand. 

 

 



[#] Fri Jul 09 2021 12:17:26 EDT from Nurb432

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Not sure i mentioned it the other day, but ended up with a infected toe, that got into my kidneys. (Staph) never a good thing. People die from that. 2 weeks of antibiotics, no death, and its all better now :) 

Short version is due to toenails, which i gave up on doctors 30+ years ago and do it myself now. But since i have little feeling left from all the surgeries and DYI efforts, ( and too high of a pain tolerance ) i missed this one and it got away from me. My GP asked me to go to a foot doctor " perhaps there is something new they can do for you now" 

Went in today, and aside from shocking the doctor " what, how are you able to do that on your own, doesn't it hurt ? " or even " ya, my GP fished it out" "what, he didnt numb it first??"  "nah, no need"...      No new treatments other than the same old thing. "if you ever want to come in and we can try it again and see... " So wasted some sick time from work. Bleh. But it is a nice day out, so wasn't a bad drive.  ( top went down on the jeep )

 

Fun times :) 



[#] Fri Jul 09 2021 14:46:44 EDT from LoanShark

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@clairlemon (Claire Lehmann, founder of the libertarian-leaning publication Quillette) has been tweeting a lot about vaccine safety/efficacy lately. Here are some of the highlights:

"For the
@BretWeinstein
fans who are incredulous that I would believe that COVID19 vaccines are safe, here is the data that I base this view on: a randomised controlled trial (N=43,548) in which adverse events are the same in the placebo & vaccine groups"

-- https://twitter.com/clairlemon/status/1411190960793346048?s=20 (link to study in original tweet)

"And another, with a sample of 30,420:..."

-- https://twitter.com/clairlemon/status/1411191312515100675?s=20

"If you're wondering why I'm a pro-Vaxxer [links to LA Times article 'Can COVID-19 cause lasting erectile dysfunction?']


-- https://twitter.com/clairlemon/status/1412892637808365568?s=20


"the prevalence of foreign disinformation operations is highly statistically and substantively significant in predicting a drop in mean vaccination rates over time"

-- https://twitter.com/clairlemon/status/1412949391376191488?s=20

"I hate to have to do this, because it's embarrassing. Heather and Bret shared this (now retracted) paper which proposed the insane figure that 2 people die for every 3 who are saved by vaccination. They then retracted their comments the following day..."

https://twitter.com/clairlemon/status/1413025373818818560?s=20 (link to video in tweet, appears to reference the very same study that PD linked to a few days ago - retracted?)

"The reason why anti-vaxxers are pushed back against is not because everyone is paid off by Big Pharma. It's because vaccine hesitancy is the default position. Have you ever met a child who *wanted* to get vaccinated? We are all hesitant & we use our rationality to overcome it."

-- https://twitter.com/clairlemon/status/1413073321164296193?s=20

"It's the easiest thing in the world to drum up fear about vaccination. We know that anti-vaccine content spreads faster on social media than scientifically accurate content. Presumably because it taps an innate fear.


-- https://twitter.com/clairlemon/status/1413073694365155330?s=20 (link to study of social media in tweet)

"A lot of the fear simply comes from a fear of needles. People are often surprised to learn that vaccines are much safer than drugs we routinely take orally"

-- https://twitter.com/clairlemon/status/1413074032321204227?s=20 (link to MarginalRevolution article in tweet)

OK, that's quite enough. My own comments follow:

* The first tweet I linked to, above, is kind of a bombshell. If the frequency of vaccine-induced adverse events cannot, statistically, by distinguished from the background level of adverse events in a placebo group, then we cannot reject the null hypothesis that the true rate of adverse events is, in fact, zero--and this calls into question the basic methodology and conclusions of some of the studies that have been linked to lately.

* Claire is, or should be, one of those people who retains the respect of "both sides."

[#] Fri Jul 09 2021 14:52:22 EDT from LoanShark

Subject: Re: The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy

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2021-06-26 11:41 from ParanoidDelusions
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?The_Safety_of_COVID-19_Vaccinations=E2=80=94We_Should_Rethink_the_Policy?=

I am neither an Anti-Masker or an Anti-Vaxxer... 

But this report is troubling and the numbers seem credible: 



The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy


 

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/693/htm

Yup, confimed: this study at this link now has a big RETRACTED stamp on it.

Wish I could say I was surprised; to me, the numbers did not seem to add up.

[#] Fri Jul 09 2021 16:58:29 EDT from Nurb432

Subject: Re: The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy

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we will never know the truth. If it went great, we wont believe the numbers since they lie to us all the freaking time. If it went bad they will hide the numbers. 

 

Either way, results are the same. Cant trust it.



[#] Fri Jul 09 2021 17:08:23 EDT from LoanShark

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"they"

[#] Fri Jul 09 2021 17:09:24 EDT from LoanShark

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I just .RD'd in this room.

Damn, if only Dirk were still around. That took me way back.

[#] Fri Jul 09 2021 17:10:20 EDT from LoanShark

Subject: Re: Re: The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy

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2021-07-09 16:58 from Nurb432
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_The_Safety_of_COVID-19_Vaccinations=E2=80=94We_Should_Rethink_the_Policy?=

we will never know the truth. If it went great, we wont believe the
numbers since they lie to us all the freaking time. If it went bad
they will hide the numbers. 

 

Either way, results are the same. Cant trust it.


that's just it. Lack of social trust is precisely the problem. Only now it has deadlier consequences.

[#] Fri Jul 09 2021 17:12:44 EDT from LoanShark

Subject: Re: Re: The Safety of COVID-19 Vaccinations—We Should Rethink the Policy

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numbers since they lie to us all the freaking time. If it went bad
they will hide the numbers. 

Like the at least two vaccine trials that I know of that failed, where the results were published. Right.

Believe what you want to, I guess, but from my point there's no point in discussing anything with someone who will not be swayed by *any* amount of evidence; that's goalpost-moving.

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