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[#] Thu Nov 28 2019 01:46:30 EST from megagumbo @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?

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Wed Nov 27 2019 14:32:33 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?
Now, this *is* good news indeed! Especially the info regarding docker
sounds promising. Citadel is the ideal mailserver to run
containerized!

Thanks for the update!

My pleasure ... thanks for the enthusiasm.

Hopefully, the containerized distribution will become the preferred way to install Citadel. It will be nice when you can simply delete the container, download a newer version, point it at the existing data volume, and get running again.

Eliminating the need to run setup has required a lot of effort. It did require changing the installation procedure so that instead of entering an administrator user name and password, there is now a default (username "admin" with password "citadel") that is automatically created when the server detects that it is starting up for the first time on an empty database.

Some of the system administration tasks are going to move from the text client over to ctdlsh. There will probably have to be some sort of way to run ctdlsh from the container host. We haven't gotten that far yet.

But yes, the idea is that Citadel will be a "cloud native" application that you can launch to the host, or hosting provider, of your choice with very little effort.

I've checked out and built the citadel-docker image, which went fine all the way. It runs perfectly and I was just about to ask here for the default admin credentials when I saw your reply. So now I can eventually log-in and check the whole thing out. As for ctdlsh and system administration tassks, would it be feasable to have kind of a maintenance port the server is listening on? So one can either expose that port and run maintenace from a second container (I wouldn't want to have an additional tool on a docker host system. Being a swarm cluster admin utilizing Portainer, I'd like to have things clean) or even schedule maintenance jobs within the same container via cron (just as we did with BBS maintenance in the good old days), talking to citadel via the port mentione above. That would allow for multiple ways to have ctdlsh to be used.

 



[#] Thu Nov 28 2019 19:24:19 EST from bmetallica @ Uncensored

Subject: db: cursor still in progress on cdb 02: attempt to write during r / o

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I want to switch from a Raspberry 3 to a 4 with rasbian buster. 
On the PI3 is the deb (via apt-get) version.
Unfortunately, this does not work on the PI4.
When I install the version via the "easy installer" on the PI4, it works.
But I can not copy the "data" directory, then I get the message:
"db: cursor still in progress on cdb 02: attempt to write during r / o cursor".
What can I do there?


[#] Thu Nov 28 2019 19:51:51 EST from bmetallica @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: db: cursor still in progress on cdb 02: attempt to write during r / o

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the problem seems to be the cdb.04


[#] Sun Dec 01 2019 17:38:29 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?

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much work is being actively done on the system. I would be delighted
to assist in any way I can. Ideally I would help with coding but it's
been so long since doing it in any capacity it would be a nasty time
bandit that would yield little quality. I can assist in documentation
or art work though. Whatever I can do or have time to assist in I'll
be happy to volunteer.

Ok great! The big opportunity to help right now is in updating the web site.
You can see the new site at http://wwwdev.citadel.org (which actually uses the same web framework as WebCit-NG) and it's obviously a big improvement but far from complete. We've brought over all of the FAQ entries, and some of them have been reformatted but there are many which need to be done. The ask is for someone to go through each one, clean up the formatting (which was badly auto-converted from wiki format), and make a list of pages which need to be updated. Then we need to do the same for the Documentation section, which hasn't been brought over yet.

If this is something that you would be interested in helping with, let me know and I'll create an account for you on the web server with access to that site.

Another opportunity to help is in testing new builds. This isn't an active opportunity quite yet, but it will become active as the Docker image and the WebCit-NG code begin to mature.

[#] Sun Dec 01 2019 17:44:54 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: Cloud native Citadel?

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Does it mean that Citadel will stop being installable in local
servers (either virtual or bare metal) and instead we'll need a
docker account to run Citadel now as an internet service?

Rest assured we will continue to distribute the Citadel system as a standalone suite of software. Easy Install will continue to exist, and the source distribution will always be available.

Docker will provide another method to install the software. If the uptake is good, it may even become the preferred way to install the software. It would be nice if you could just fetch the docker image onto your own server (physical or virtual) and run a well-tested build that is guaranteed to not conflict with anything else on the system. By "cloud native" we mean that it can *also* be launched directly via any hosting provider that offers a Docker hosting service such as Kubernetes.

What I *would* like Docker to replace, is the distribution-specific packages such as .deb and .rpm. Those tend to get out of date quickly, and it is frustrating to work with bug reports from users who have no access to the latest versions.

[#] Sun Dec 01 2019 19:02:05 EST from userT @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?

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Sun Dec 01 2019 17:38:29 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Ok great! The big opportunity to help right now is in updating the web site.

Answered in the Development room.

Also willing to test new builds when available. Long live Webcit-ng!



[#] Sun Dec 01 2019 19:25:58 EST from "me" <me@scifidan.com> to room_Citadel_Support@citadel.org

Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?

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Yeah, certainly. I'll be glad to assist.

On 12/1/19 2:38 PM, IGnatius T Foobar wrote:
If this is something that you would be interested in helping with, let me
know and I'll create an account for you on the web server with access to that
site.

[#] Mon Dec 02 2019 04:53:46 EST from bmetallica @ Uncensored

Subject: 2 smarthosts

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Hello everybody, my Citadel is working now.

But I have the following problem. In the old version it was possible to use 2 smarthosts for different domains: "username:password@host:port sender-address".

That does not seem to work anymore in the new version.

Is there a solution for this?



[#] Wed Dec 04 2019 03:50:04 EST from Ludwig @ Uncensored

Subject: install loop

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I am trying to install Citadel on my RPI3, but the installation halts in a loop at this message:

<Server port number:>

Specify the TCP port number on which your server will run.
Normally, this will be port 504, which is the official port
assigned by the IANA for Citadel servers.  You will only need
to specify a different port number if you run multiple instances
of Citadel on the same computer and there is something else
already using port 504.

This is currently set to:
########################################################################
Enter new value or press return to leave unchanged:

 

This message is repeated over and over again. I have tried to keep it simple by starting with a fresh Debian "Buster" for RPI that I have enabled SSH and updated with apt-get install and apt-get upgrade.

Then I followed the instructions on this site: http://citadel.org/doku.php?id=installation:easyinstall:prereq-debian.html

apt-get update
apt-get install build-essential curl g++ gettext shared-mime-info libssl-dev zlib1g-dev
curl http://easyinstall.citadel.org/install | bash


And when using wget -q -O - http://easyinstall.citadel.org/install | sh according to: http://citadel.org/doku.php?id=installation:easyinstall:easyinstall
I get:

 Easy Install does not yet know how to do this on your operating system.
Citadel Easy Install is aborting.
The last few lines above this message may indicate what went wrong.
Linux Debian 10.2( 4.19.75-v7+ armv7l)


Does this mean I cannot install Citadel on my PI?

All suggestions are welcome. Please be detailed as I am a novis when it comes to Linux.

 



[#] Wed Dec 04 2019 21:44:51 EST from oneflatfoot @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: install loop

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I just had the same thing happen to me on Ubuntu 19.10. Help would be much appreciated.



[#] Thu Dec 05 2019 03:14:42 EST from iMav @ Uncensored

Subject: Signing up for networked rooms

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How do we go about getting set up with pulling in some existing networked rooms?



[#] Thu Dec 05 2019 09:21:44 EST from vmajor @ Uncensored

Subject: SMTP not sending messages

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Hi,

I have a recent new issue with citadel refusing to send SMTP messages created by one of my Wordpress instances. I can send emails submitted from Thunderbird, but not from Wordpress using the Easy WP SMTP plugin.

 

This is what the outbound SMTP queue looks like after several test messages:

 

Message ID Date/time submitted Next attempt Sender Recipients
(Delete)
219268
6:41 Dec 31 1969 info@velocite-server
victor.major@gmail.com    
(Delete)
219352
7:40 Dec 31 1969 info@velocite-server
victor.major@gmail.com    
(Delete)
219356
7:42 Dec 31 1969 info@velocite-server
victor.major@gmail.com  

The odd thing is the "Next attempt" date which is the last day before the beginning of time, and long in the past.

Why is this happening and how can I make Citadel not do this and send my emails instead?

My guess is that because my WP instance is set to a TZ ahead of the Citadel server's TZ, Citadel is receiving SMTP request from the future and is deciding to troll me.

Can anyone help?

 

V.



[#] Thu Dec 05 2019 10:37:57 EST from majorv @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: SMTP not sending messages

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I managed to forget my password (relied on password manager which did not manage it) so I needed to create another account instead of edit my original post:

I am running Citadel 911 with WebCit 904, server build 911. When I try to manually process items in the queue I get this popup message: "Unrecognized or unsupported command"



[#] Fri Dec 06 2019 03:01:52 EST from iMav @ Uncensored

Subject: Peering with someone to pull in some network rooms...

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Who can I speak with to set up a peering relationship so I can participate in some of the networked rooms?  (I have done this in the past...SEVERAL years ago now.)



[#] Sat Dec 07 2019 02:59:07 EST from iMav @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: Peering with someone to pull in some network rooms...

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Fri Dec 06 2019 03:01:52 EST from iMav @ Uncensored Subject: Peering with someone to pull in some network rooms...

Who can I speak with to set up a peering relationship so I can participate in some of the networked rooms?  (I have done this in the past...SEVERAL years ago now.)



 

So, is Inter Citadel Networking dead?  Oof, that's the primary reason I came back to Citadel...



[#] Mon Dec 09 2019 09:35:19 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: Peering with someone to pull in some network rooms...

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Citadel room sharing has been removed from the software -- for now. We are exploring a couple of different approaches that would put it back in a way that would allow us to participate in much larger networks. ActivityPub seems to be the front runner at this point, which would be interesting because then we become part of the 'Fediverse'.

[#] Fri Dec 13 2019 04:19:41 EST from ifykh @ Uncensored

Subject: Citadel on Amazon AWS.

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Please someone tell me that Citadel install on Amazon AWS (ubuntu instance)???



[#] Mon Dec 16 2019 01:18:20 EST from rleddy @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?

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Glad to find Citadel.

I just set it up on my website (which is one more start of the start). http://www.copious.world

I have been programming for so long!

I used to write in C, then in C++, LISP. Then in PHP and JavaScript. I started a CMS (at one point was a working demo)  Copious-CMS

The CMS was in PHP. It used a JS package called OAT (Open Ajax Toolkit) It was a web app that allows for taxonomy editing so that you could do about the same process as Drupal.
Only, most of the editing and rendering is on the client. I used TinyMCE and added a drop target plugin for interacting with the taxonomies.

I was sick of PHP, so I started talking up node.js. But, the CMS would really be better in C and C++. Perhaps team and time would help.  I have been caught up in other peoples projects for some time for everything from IoT embedded stuff, MOG servers, MQTT/BLE app stacks, D3 front ends, and so on and so forth.

Last summer, I was at Google. There I worked on a API micro-gateway in node.js in a maintenance role. I am now very aware of ways that you should not use node.js. (Some frustration was over how much inefficiency was being added to the existing inefficiency and how the security was getting mangled.)

I got so frustrated that I started looking into Luajit. Some were claiming that project was dead. But, now Lua Vela came out in Oct. Anyway, some small functionality testing, I could run scripted things about 30 time faster than the fastest node.js implementation, which used systems tricks. Lua ran about 1000 times faster than code extracted from the Google stack to do about the same thing.  So, it gets easy to start eyeing the micro-gateways out there as easy targets to pick off. But, how important is that API stuff as the web changes to pick up things like IPFS, super responsive in RAM DB's, functional/serverless programming,etc? A pass through OpenResty leaves one saying "good enough". But, unintentional CDN's will arise from distributed file systems and provide some limited community fostered functionality such as file sharing. But, what about something like a webcit endpoint as another node rider?

Anyway, I was looking at the webcit code. And, I get it. And, I understand that it is undergoing necessary change, perhaps to make it more maintainable

It is interesting that you would like to basically change the approach to how people use the web. (Same here.) But, what is your vision? It would be nice to have a chat about that.

I am interested in the CSS change. Because, I could use mobile rendering. This looks positive, and I would not mind trying out troublesome code on my site for a while.

I don't have a paying gig at the moment. So, obviously I could use some pointers to one. But, it might be nice to get a handle on this stack as well.

What sort of transformative things are taking place with citadel and webcit that will transform the web as we know it?

 

 



[#] Thu Dec 19 2019 17:22:30 EST from rleddy @ Uncensored

Subject: Curious - EMSCRIPTEN?

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Any attempt to just basically translate some of your webcit C into emscripten?

 



[#] Mon Dec 23 2019 10:19:03 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?

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Mon Dec 16 2019 01:18:20 AM EST from rleddy @ Uncensored Subject: Re: [Citadel Support] citadel submit issues organization?

Glad to find Citadel.

I just set it up on my website (which is one more start of the start). http://www.copious.world

I have been programming for so long!

I used to write in C, then in C++, LISP. Then in PHP and JavaScript. I started a CMS (at one point was a working demo)  Copious-CMS

The CMS was in PHP. It used a JS package called OAT (Open Ajax Toolkit) It was a web app that allows for taxonomy editing so that you could do about the same process as Drupal.
Only, most of the editing and rendering is on the client. I used TinyMCE and added a drop target plugin for interacting with the taxonomies.

I was sick of PHP, so I started talking up node.js. But, the CMS would really be better in C and C++. Perhaps team and time would help.  I have been caught up in other peoples projects for some time for everything from IoT embedded stuff, MOG servers, MQTT/BLE app stacks, D3 front ends, and so on and so forth.

Last summer, I was at Google. There I worked on a API micro-gateway in node.js in a maintenance role. I am now very aware of ways that you should not use node.js. (Some frustration was over how much inefficiency was being added to the existing inefficiency and how the security was getting mangled.)

I got so frustrated that I started looking into Luajit. Some were claiming that project was dead. But, now Lua Vela came out in Oct. Anyway, some small functionality testing, I could run scripted things about 30 time faster than the fastest node.js implementation, which used systems tricks. Lua ran about 1000 times faster than code extracted from the Google stack to do about the same thing.  So, it gets easy to start eyeing the micro-gateways out there as easy targets to pick off. But, how important is that API stuff as the web changes to pick up things like IPFS, super responsive in RAM DB's, functional/serverless programming,etc? A pass through OpenResty leaves one saying "good enough". But, unintentional CDN's will arise from distributed file systems and provide some limited community fostered functionality such as file sharing. But, what about something like a webcit endpoint as another node rider?

Anyway, I was looking at the webcit code. And, I get it. And, I understand that it is undergoing necessary change, perhaps to make it more maintainable

It is interesting that you would like to basically change the approach to how people use the web. (Same here.) But, what is your vision? It would be nice to have a chat about that.

I am interested in the CSS change. Because, I could use mobile rendering. This looks positive, and I would not mind trying out troublesome code on my site for a while.

I don't have a paying gig at the moment. So, obviously I could use some pointers to one. But, it might be nice to get a handle on this stack as well.

What sort of transformative things are taking place with citadel and webcit that will transform the web as we know it?

 

 



Hello rleddy, nice to hear your thoughts on Citadel.

Do join the Citadel Development room if you're interested in participating in the effort.  I'll try to review here some of the things you're talking about on WebCit.

As you've probably seen, Citadel Server is in great shape; it's got a very efficient, modular, and feature-rich server architecture.  WebCit, on the other hand, suffers from an obsolete architecture and 20 years of bit rot.  The UI looks decent but the code is very brittle and unmaintainable.

webcit-ng (which is in the git repo, by the way) is built around a REST/DAV data model on the server side, and the entire UI runs inside the browser.  So yes, your comments about mobile rendering are relevant.  Right now it's built on W3CSS but it's early enough to change that, and in fact the idea that we can change the UI without rewriting the back end is a good thing.



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