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Happy Manifest Destiny and Divine Providence Empire-Building Western European Patriarchy Day! Every bit of modern society is because of our great Westward Expansion. Women have the right to vote, the slaves are freed (in non-Middle Eastern/Non-African nations, anyhow), and the median level of wealth globally has never been higher in the history of mankind. I mean... thank you Arabs for Algebra and the concept of zero - we couldn't have gotten here without you. But otherwise - we've really carried the weight of the advance of civilization from the firearm to the printing press.
That is worth over-consuming a few turkeys with bread shoved up their butts and some green bean casserole to celebrate. Yeah Us! Imagine where the world might be without England, France and Spain - still living in constant warfare and misery without running water and modern healthcare.
Thu Nov 27 2025 19:54:37 UTC from Nurb432For those that celebrate:
Pleasant national deceased turkey consumption day.
Id rather celebrate its roots, the 'harvest holiday' existed long before the Europeans even knew this blob of land to exploit existed.
I mean - I'm ok with that - if you want to celebrate the harvest celebrations of the old world - that doesn't offend me.
What I want to know is why you think us bringing the greatest civilization in the history of mankind - something that surpasses Rome, Egypt, Babylonia, Sumer - in the civilization and reign of peace and prosperity it brought to ALL mankind... should be equated with "exploiting this blob of land."
We're here turning water running over a turbine in a dam, interpreted through a piece of sand and rock as zeroes and ones into persistent electronic messages - accessible instantly world-wide - someone in Japan can read this as soon as some one in Arizona or New Jersey or Amsterdam or Somalia - on a computer, or a phone, wired or wireless - like Star Trek Magic...
Because the Western European Patriarchy came and "exploited this blob of land," where, uninterrupted for 30,000 years, the indigenous people who lived here never figured out the wheel or a coherent universal written language.
Hating on the achievements of the West seems so... futile to me - especially among people who are a product of The West. There has been no better time in history to be dark skinned, or female, or gay, or any possible divergence from the median of what society has traditionally called acceptable. The White European Patriarchy has been the most progressive humanist society of all of recorded history - with unquestionably the furthest REACH in making those ideologies global. No previous society has had the complete global influence... that we know of anyhow. Maybe postdiluvian, prior to the younger dryas period - there was a more progressive global society that was erased in a global cataclysm.
But in recorded humanity - we're the peak achievement of progress. Did some terrible things happen along the way? Absolutely. Are we still better off as a species than at any time prior, in particular since the fall of Rome? Without a doubt.
So... why WOULDN'T we celebrate that?
Fri Nov 28 2025 14:30:56 UTC from Nurb432Id rather celebrate its roots, the 'harvest holiday' existed long before the Europeans even knew this blob of land to exploit existed.
With my viewpoint of modern mankind in general, that don't mean much.
I might ( might ) agree to use the term "Less bad than others" ( in some ways, other ways we are worse ) but I'd never use the term great if it involves people..
Sat Nov 29 2025 05:36:18 UTC from ParanoidDelusions
greatest civilization in the history of mankind -
I can't think of any quantifiable way our modern society is "in other ways worse," than any society that came before it. We are the most egalitarian - we have the most concern about human rights, the highest standards of living, the most class mobility, the best access to basic necessities of food and shelter, the best medical care, the most mobility, the highest level of global communication, the most scientific knowledge and understanding of how the universe works - and things just keep getting *better*.
Right now, fear of the Bad Orange Man has some in the LGBT and minority communities convinced that they live in the WORST time in history to be who they are - and that is ridiculous. There has been no better time in the history of the world to be born female, or gay, or non-white. Really there has been no better time to be born straight, white and male.
There may still be a lot we can do to improve as a species - I don't think this is necessarily the pinnacle of human achievement - but the whole, "the world would be a better place without us..." Who would appreciate it? The animals don't create art, don't try to capture moments to share emotions with future animals - your dog may appear quite content dozing in the sun on a perfect spring day - but the dog will never be able to articulate that feeling of contentment to another dog.
The world would be a pointless place without us.
Sat Nov 29 2025 15:36:51 UTC from Nurb432With my viewpoint of modern mankind in general, that don't mean much.
I might ( might ) agree to use the term "Less bad than others" ( in some ways, other ways we are worse ) but I'd never use the term great if it involves people..
Sat Nov 29 2025 05:36:18 UTC from ParanoidDelusions
greatest civilization in the history of mankind -
The inconvenient truth is that some cultures are objectively better than others.
I for one am thankful (to the Christian deity) that I am in the United States of America, thriving in the greatest society that has ever taken root on this planet. Every society builds on the foundations of its predecessors and peers; that much is certain. But if someone starts talking about "colonialism" and "patriarchy" I want to offend them using whatever words and phrases hurt them the most, because they deserve it.
GOD BLESS AMERICA.
And thank you to Sarah Hale and Norman Rockwell for normalizing the modern Thanksgiving feast as we know it.
www.citadel.org has been moved to a new connectivity provider. This also covers everything else running on that server, including code.citadel.org, search.citadel.org, www.bigbuttbear.com, etc.
If a few of you could give it a test, I'd be grateful for your feedback.
It ought to fly now. In the coming days I'll be moving Uncensored as well, if everything goes as planned.
ssl is dead ( hard stop timeout ). But regular seems to be doing ok again.
www.citadel.org has been moved to a new connectivity provider. This also covers everything else running on that server, including code.citadel.org, search.citadel.org, www.bigbuttbear.com, etc.
If a few of you could give it a test, I'd be grateful for your feedback.
It ought to fly now. In the coming days I'll be moving Uncensored as well, if everything goes as planned.
Ok i misread that.
I meant uncensored was doing better but SSL was toast, ( was yesterday too ). Ill go look at the rest for you.
Sorry, its still early for me, went back to bed after the dogs were fed/ate this morning.
ssl is dead ( hard stop timeout ). But regular seems to be doing ok again.
www.citadel.org has been moved to a new connectivity provider. This also covers everything else running on that server, including code.citadel.org, search.citadel.org, www.bigbuttbear.com, etc.
If a few of you could give it a test, I'd be grateful for your feedback.
It ought to fly now. In the coming days I'll be moving Uncensored as well, if everything goes as planned.
And doing the correct test ( sigh ).. ya it seems to be normal now.
I didn't try an actual easy install, but downloading the DB file flew, as one would expect.
www.citadel.org has been moved to a new connectivity provider. This also covers everything else running on that server, including code.citadel.org, search.citadel.org, www.bigbuttbear.com, etc.
If a few of you could give it a test, I'd be grateful for your feedback.
It ought to fly now. In the coming days I'll be moving Uncensored as well, if everything goes as planned.