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The establishment loves to paint its political opponents as if we are all anti-semitic neo-nazi skinheads. This is of course a Big Lie. But when *actual* anti-semitic neo-nazi skinheads appear, what do we do with them? I don't want to give the appearance of endorsing them, and let me be clear, I do not approve of that message. On the other hand I don't want to censor people on what is supposed to be a free-speech platform.
It's quite remarkable that it took 34 years for this dilemma to finally happen.
Free speech was always a red herring.
I suspect its due to the changing nature of being online. decades ago, most groups like that either didnt have any presence online, or kept it underground.
Today, its more of a non-ramification free-for-all, from all sides. Any number of things you would never see, is now common place.
It's quite remarkable that it took 34 years for this dilemma to finally happen.
2022-09-10 14:55 from IGnatius T Foobar <ajc@citadel.org>
Subject: Re: Start
It's a bit of a dilemma for me and I take it pretty seriously. We're
here to give a platform to everyone, even folks I personally disagree
with. Normally we just move disruptive comments here, and if the
person persists, we set the twit bit on them so all their stuff goes
here. But this one wasn't even disruptive; it even created its own
room to contain its message. In the end I decided to move it here but
part of me wonders whether that was the right thing to do.
The establishment loves to paint its political opponents as if we are
all anti-semitic neo-nazi skinheads. This is of course a Big Lie. But
when *actual* anti-semitic neo-nazi skinheads appear, what do we do
with them? I don't want to give the appearance of endorsing them, and
let me be clear, I do not approve of that message. On the other hand I
don't want to censor people on what is supposed to be a free-speech
platform.
It's quite remarkable that it took 34 years for this dilemma to
finally happen.
My few thoughts on the subject.
I don't think it's off brand to squash someone who clearly is only here to be disruptive or exploit the service. I agree with the strict adherence to freedom of speech in principle, but you have to give yourself certain allowances to keep the place enjoyable for everyone. I think the attitude should be that no ideas shall be censored and anything is on the table for discussion, but the same is not true for behavior.
Following that, it's one thing to invite discussion and allow any idea to be shared or argued. But that doesn't mean you have to allow your service to be used as a free advertising platform. If it were Sydney Powell hawking some Release the Kraken GoFundMe, or Bernie Sanders trying to direct people to his totally grassroots ballot harvesting initiative, or even just a bot periodically posting ads to eat at Dunkin Donuts, I think you would be equally justified to send those to /dev/null. Their ideas are fair game, the exploitation of your platform for only promoting their respective businesses without bringing anything else to the community is not. I consider myself a free enterprise captialist, but it's counter productive to take your ideals to such extremes to allow yourself or your message to be hijacked and used against you. At that point it becomes a religion, and this is the fault that the Western left has made.
As a side note, I also think there is some weasel room with the name Uncensored. Does it mean that no post here will be censored, or does it mean that you will not allow your platform or your values to be censored by others?
In the end it's the whole private property argument. Yes, the first amendment restricts only the government and not private forums. Yes, even though it is a private forum we should still promote freedom of speech as a cultural value. These lines are difficult to define, and obviously some administrative discretion is required, which is why the Big Social Media types find it so easy to abuse.
To put it in an extreme analogy (thinking back to a recent discussion on irc2p) - debate over the criminalization or tolerance of child porn is acceptable, but use of the platform to distribute child porn is not.
And lastly - we can create our own rooms??
As he created a room of his own, and didnt spam the rest of the board with his politics, i tend to lean towards non-disruptive and non-exploitative. I *think* what was posted is legal, since it was purely a 'call to arms by joining us' not a 'lets go out and do xyz illegal act on xyz date and time". So that part is out of the picture. Clearly there are lines even for the most hard core free-speech advocate, but my personal feeling is they didnt cross it. But it was diametrically opposed to our beliefs of most of us here ( and most importantly, our host, IG ), so moving it may have been the correct thing to do, so as to show that in general it is not 'supported' but not 'suppressed'.
But that is just me, its not my house, so hard to make any real judgments in either way, as grey as it was.
And on the 2nd part, I didnt know we could create rooms either :) ( not that i would want to, but never tried )
I don't think it's off brand to squash someone who clearly is only here to be disruptive or exploit the service.*snip*And lastly - we can create our own rooms??
Post-1998, we went to a real database model, so everything is policy based.
Here at Uncensored I have it set to delete rooms that haven't received any posts in 1000 days (a little over three years). Private mailboxes, permanent blogs and wikis, etc. are excluded from this policy. Rooms that receive external RSS feeds are set to a more aggressive expire policy. But for public message board rooms, if no one has posted in three years, it's a pretty good sign that it's no longer needed.
As for our little neo-nazi friend ... everything which you all posted today has been part of the thought process. I take this very seriously and I truly struggled with it. It's the difference between offering people a platform for hate, and offering a platform for what the media calls "hate".
The cop-out would be that everyone gets a voice, but I can organize it any way I want.
You know, i was so tempted to create a plastic spoon room :)
Subject: WARNING! I'm hacked you and stolen you information
I have to share bad news with you.
Approximately few months ago I have gained access to your devices, which you use for internet browsing.
After that, I have started tracking your internet activities.
Some time ago I hacked you and got access to your email accounts bobdoe@uncensored.citadel.org .
Obviously, I have easily hack to log in to your email.
Your password: bobdoe
One week later, I have already installed Trojan virus to Operating Systems of all the devices that you use to access your email.
In fact, it was not really hard at all (since you were following the links from your inbox emails).
All ingenious is simple. =)
This software provides me with access to all the controllers of your devices (e.g., your microphone, video camera and keyboard).
I have downloaded all your information, data, photos, web browsing history to my servers.
I have access to all your messengers, social networks, emails, chat history and contacts list.
My virus continuously refreshes the signatures (it is driver-based), and hence remains invisible for antivirus software.
Likewise, I guess by now you understand why I have stayed undetected until this letter...
While gathering information about you, I have discovered that you are a big fan of adult websites.
You really love visiting porn websites and watching exciting videos, while enduring an enormous amount of pleasure.
Well, I have managed to record a number of your dirty scenes and montaged a few videos, which show the way you masturbate and reach orgasms.
If you have doubts, I can make a few clicks of my mouse and all your videos will be shared to your friends, colleagues and relatives.
I have also no issue at all to make them available for public access.
I guess, you really don't want that to happen, considering the specificity of the videos you like to watch, (you perfectly know what I mean) it will cause a true catastrophe for you.
Let's settle it this way:
You transfer $400 USD to me (in bitcoin equivalent according to the exchange rate at the moment of funds transfer), and once the transfer is received, I will delete all this dirty stuff right away.
After that we will forget about each other. I also promise to deactivate and delete all the harmful software from your devices. Trust me, I keep my word.
This is a fair deal and the price is quite low, considering that I have been checking out your profile and traffic for some time by now.
In case, if you don't know how to purchase and transfer the bitcoins - you can use any modern search engine.
Here is my bitcoin wallet: bc1q0tkqwzqp6nupfw5gd9xxe3nk9ndf43gvqv22yn
Things you need to avoid from doing:
*Do not reply me (I have created this email inside your inbox and generated the return address).
*Do not try to contact police and other security services. In addition, forget about telling this to you friends. If I discover that (as you can see, it is really not so hard, considering that I control all your systems) - your video will be shared to public right away.
*Don't try to find me - it is absolutely pointless. All the cryptocurrency transactions are anonymous.
*Don't try to reinstall the OS on your devices or throw them away. It is pointless as well, since all the videos have already been saved at remote servers.
Things you don't need to worry about:
*That I won't be able to receive your funds transfer.
- Don't worry, I will see it right away, once you complete the transfer, since I continuously track all your activities (my trojan virus has got a remote-control feature, something like TeamViewer).
*That I will share your videos anyway after you complete the funds transfer.
- Trust me, I have no point to continue creating troubles in your life. If I really wanted that, I would do it long time ago!
Everything will be done in a fair manner!
One more thing... Don't get caught in similar kind of situations anymore in future!
My advice - keep changing all your passwords on a frequent basis
Subject: Re: WARNING! I'm hacked you and stolen you information
He's blackmailing himself? On a public message board?
For those who don't remember, "bobdoe" showed up here about four years ago, asking for help with Citadel, not really reading any of the help that was offered to him and eventually getting more and more hostile until he eventually went critical and we had to twit him.
Since then he has apparently logged in thousands of times but never posted anything. Not sure what's up with that. Maybe he's a lurker or maybe he set up a mail fetcher and forgot about it or something.
Needless to say, I don't think anyone cares whether he pays himself the ransom.
Subject: Re: WARNING! I'm hacked you and stolen you information
I want 10%.
Subject: ALARM - I'm hacked you and stolen you information and photo
I have to share bad news with you.
Approximately few months ago I have gained access to your devices, which you use for internet browsing.
After that, I have started tracking your internet activities.
Some time ago I hacked you and got access to your email accounts bobdoe@uncensored.citadel.org .
Obviously, I have easily hack to log in to your email.
Your password: bobdoe
One week later, I have already installed Trojan virus to Operating Systems of all the devices that you use to access your email.
In fact, it was not really hard at all (since you were following the links from your inbox emails).
All ingenious is simple. =)
This software provides me with access to all the controllers of your devices (e.g., your microphone, video camera and keyboard).
I have downloaded all your information, data, photos, web browsing history to my servers.
I have access to all your messengers, social networks, emails, chat history and contacts list.
My virus continuously refreshes the signatures (it is driver-based), and hence remains invisible for antivirus software.
Likewise, I guess by now you understand why I have stayed undetected until this letter...
While gathering information about you, I have discovered that you are a big fan of adult websites.
You really love visiting porn websites and watching exciting videos, while enduring an enormous amount of pleasure.
Well, I have managed to record a number of your dirty scenes and montaged a few videos, which show the way you masturbate and reach orgasms.
If you have doubts, I can make a few clicks of my mouse and all your videos will be shared to your friends, colleagues and relatives.
I have also no issue at all to make them available for public access.
I guess, you really don't want that to happen, considering the specificity of the videos you like to watch, (you perfectly know what I mean) it will cause a true catastrophe for you.
Let's settle it this way:
You transfer $400 USD to me (in bitcoin equivalent according to the exchange rate at the moment of funds transfer), and once the transfer is received, I will delete all this dirty stuff right away.
After that we will forget about each other. I also promise to deactivate and delete all the harmful software from your devices. Trust me, I keep my word.
This is a fair deal and the price is quite low, considering that I have been checking out your profile and traffic for some time by now.
In case, if you don't know how to purchase and transfer the bitcoins - you can use any modern search engine.
Here is my bitcoin wallet: bc1qqhw5x53ad4gvjfsnsu8w5gdzvk5n9l3kzycyt7
Things you need to avoid from doing:
*Do not reply me (I have created this email inside your inbox and generated the return address).
*Do not try to contact police and other security services. In addition, forget about telling this to you friends. If I discover that (as you can see, it is really not so hard, considering that I control all your systems) - your video will be shared to public right away.
*Don't try to find me - it is absolutely pointless. All the cryptocurrency transactions are anonymous.
*Don't try to reinstall the OS on your devices or throw them away. It is pointless as well, since all the videos have already been saved at remote servers.
Things you don't need to worry about:
*That I won't be able to receive your funds transfer.
- Don't worry, I will see it right away, once you complete the transfer, since I continuously track all your activities (my trojan virus has got a remote-control feature, something like TeamViewer).
*That I will share your videos anyway after you complete the funds transfer.
- Trust me, I have no point to continue creating troubles in your life. If I really wanted that, I would do it long time ago!
Everything will be done in a fair manner!
One more thing... Don't get caught in similar kind of situations anymore in future!
My advice - keep changing all your passwords on a frequent basis
Subject: Re: ALARM - I'm hacked you and stolen you information and photo
I suspect these messages are not being posted by the account's original owner.
The password was the same as the username. Since the "brilliant" hackers have installed "virus" they can change it back :)
Subject: Re: ALARM - I'm hacked you and stolen you information and photo
I also assume that.
I know when i get these sorts of things they spoof my address.
Mon Sep 19 2022 09:06:36 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: ALARM - I'm hacked you and stolen you information and photo
I suspect these messages are not being posted by the account's original owner.