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[#] Tue Jun 22 2021 14:07:05 EDT from darknetuser

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2021-06-18 20:41 from Nurb432
Picked up a copy of WIn11. Just curious.  Installing now. ( VM, no
network. Who knows if its full of virus )


_I_ know it has at least one virus. The virus is called Windows. Be careful. It may suck the sanity out of your head.

[#] Tue Jun 22 2021 14:08:59 EDT from darknetuser

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Now its " we suggest you use Edge ". I installed edge on my Linux
desktop to avoid windows as much as possible.  it felt dirty.

The advantage of that approach is that you can install Edge on a Live system if you only ned it sporadically. That way it need not polute anything important or permanent.

[#] Tue Jun 22 2021 15:36:38 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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The "Live Tile" thing goes way back. Then it was called Modern UI, and then Metro, in Windows 8. It comes from a time when the entire industry was certain that the Windowed GUI desktop was dead, and that touch interfaces would be the preferred way of doing *everything* going forward - and that wasn't the case. The traditional desktop rallied back once people realized a Mouse and Windows GUI is the *best* way to get most productivity work done in most cases. It is also why productivity software with a GUI hasn't been replaced by CLI - no matter how many people insist that vi is all you need to efficiently write a document. 

Each interface has advantages and disadvantages, and lends itself to certain tasks and not to others. 

So, anyhow - I think that Microsoft continues to look for an innovative interface that works equally well with CLI, Windowed Desktop GUI, and touch input - and they'll continue to tweak that - but will probably focus their OS on the GUI. 

As for adopting "Apple Innovations," with almost every iteration of Windows since Windows 7, Microsoft has had a "leak" of a Windows OS that looks remarkably like Mac OS - only to pull the rug out from under all the breathless Apple fanbois when the actual RTM version hits and it looks - pretty much like Windows has always looked. 

I think Microsoft just likes to troll Apple this way. 



https://mashable.com/2014/10/01/windows-10-preview-vs-os-x-yosemite/ - 2014


Here is the thing - they all look pretty much alike, anyhow. But I've read any number of articles where internal Windows previews looked JUST like OS X - but the final release ends up looking nothing like the preview, over the years. 

They probably enjoy that the Apple faithful fall for it every time, like Charlie Brown thinking he is finally going to get to kick that football. 

 



[#] Tue Jun 22 2021 16:25:10 EDT from Nurb432

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I tend to agree, the interface they presented with 95 was usable. NT4, was kludgy.  Of course i was already used to something similar with ST-GEM.  But still, ill give them credit for copying the better parts.

 

Win2k was their pinnacle, both GUI and Backend.  Took a long time to get there , and has been downhilll ever since.



[#] Tue Jun 22 2021 23:07:23 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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Tend to agree. Windows 7 was pretty awesome too. 

Windows 8 had potential as an OS for Appliance Media devices - but that market kind of fizzled on its *promise* and instead just became... I dunno... I can't think of anybody who is excited to get a tablet, anymore. 

 

Tue Jun 22 2021 16:25:10 EDT from Nurb432

I tend to agree, the interface they presented with 95 was usable. NT4, was kludgy.  Of course i was already used to something similar with ST-GEM.  But still, ill give them credit for copying the better parts.

 

Win2k was their pinnacle, both GUI and Backend.  Took a long time to get there , and has been downhilll ever since.



 



[#] Wed Jun 23 2021 10:16:22 EDT from Nurb432

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I like my Android tablets.   but again, that is android not windows :)



[#] Wed Jun 23 2021 10:26:47 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Windows 8 was Microsoft saying "we're going to give you the same interface on your computer, your phone, your video game console, your tablet, your television, and everything else we can jam it on to."

The users, who were 99.99% on desktop/laptop computers, responded with "WTF?  Why does my computer now look like the seat back display in an airplane?"

Wndows Server has been able to run "headless" for a while now.  Originally it still required another Windows machine running the GUI to run its admin tools, but over the last couple of years they've moved some amount of functionality into Windows Admin Center, which exposes a web interface.  I haven't tried it, but it's got to be better than bloating up a server OS with a GUI, which is what all sensible people said when Windows NT Server first came out some thirty years ago.



[#] Wed Jun 23 2021 12:06:39 EDT from Nurb432

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Doesn't powershell do most everything the management GUI does now? ( not having to manage servers now, i have not looked into it much, other than for automation scripts in workflow tasks )



[#] Wed Jun 23 2021 12:18:27 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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You may like them... but when is the last time you saw anybody really excited about getting a new tablet - or any buzz about a revolutionary new tablet? Lots of people ended up with tablets that they used a lot for a while, but then became another object sitting in a drawer collecting dust - because it really is a weird niche between phone and laptop. 

They're mostly devices for kids - they killed the "built in DVD entertainment system" in cars... I guess in a lot of cases, they became the drivers entertainment and information console too - e.g., Tesla and BMW iDrive units. 

They're good to get your mother-in-law on Facebook. Kids and AARP users. That is *actually* the tablet demographic, once the novelty wears off. 

I've got an older iPad of some sort - every now and then I have a use model for it - but most times, either my phone or my laptop is a better choice. 

 

 

 

Wed Jun 23 2021 10:16:22 EDT from Nurb432

I like my Android tablets.   but again, that is android not windows :)



 



[#] Wed Jun 23 2021 12:46:33 EDT from Nurb432

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I actually see a number of people using them. Often times for watching movies and reading books. 

And i wouldn't say i'm exited, just pleased i guess.  Useful tools, not some 'wow look at that" device. 



[#] Wed Jun 23 2021 13:06:35 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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Oh, people use them. They're not the disruptive paradigm that people forecast they would be. I think we've lost the thesis. Microsoft's development of the Modern/Metro UI was a response to this. The Live Tiles were their answer to this. Microsoft was afraid that the traditional Windowed UI was going to disappear and that the future *was* touch interaction. They weren't alone - that buzz was going in throughout the industry and among technologists and technology evangelists. 

We were all supposed to be working on touch-screen workstations, swiping and using other gestures that mimicked real world actions and activities - like in Tom Cruise in Minority Report of Tony Stark as Iron Man. 


Tablets and VR were the future. 

Only - not so much - or at the very least, not quite yet. 

The public perception and demand for tablets has also declined. There isn't a mad upgrade cycle - and the manufacturers aren't putting a lot of R&D or advertising into pushing or creating that. I mean, the Nintendo Switch is, technically, the most popular tablet in the world today - but even on that platform, you see articles like this: 

https://www.thegamer.com/nintendo-switch-touchscreen-best-games/

"Top 10 games that ACTUALLY use the touchscreen". 

It was kind of a fad - the hype has died - and the Window Manager UI with mouse interface survived as the dominant productivity interface and paradigm - and even Linux has had to acknowledge that - even for advanced administration of server apps - not everything is best done from the CLI. There are front ends for all aspects of Linux management under Gnome, KDE and other *nix Windows managers now - OS X will allow you to perform almost all administrative tasks from the GUI.  

The GUI wins - and Microsoft has quietly brushing their rush to abandon it under the carpet with Paperclip, BOB and other things they've gotten wrong and would like to forget about over the decades. 




Wed Jun 23 2021 12:46:33 EDT from Nurb432

I actually see a number of people using them. Often times for watching movies and reading books. 

And i wouldn't say i'm exited, just pleased i guess.  Useful tools, not some 'wow look at that" device. 



 



[#] Wed Jun 23 2021 13:11:14 EDT from Nurb432

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Next version of WiFi standards is supposed to do stuff like that.  ( the tracking part, not the AR part )

I agree the hype is gone, so now its just 'yet another boring toaster'.  People buy new ones when theirs break, but not a huge need to keep upgrading or standing in line for them.  ( much like all other devices these days most have reached a 'practical' plateau and its all incremental improvements. no 'wow factor' )

Wed Jun 23 2021 01:06:35 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions


We were all supposed to be working on touch-screen workstations, swiping and using other gestures that mimicked real world actions and activities - like in Tom Cruise in Minority Report of Tony Stark as Iron Man. 





[#] Wed Jun 23 2021 20:35:03 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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Yeah there is absolutely "Magical and Revolutionary" fatigue going on with personal electronics. But - tablets hit the wall in particular. There was a time when I was looking to buy something for portable emulation - and things like the Nvida Shield had fallen off the map - you couldn't get them new - the newest version was a step DOWN from the previous version, and the people who had used ones to unload knew that. Same thing kind of happened with the Samsung Note tablets... iPad still generated a little excitement with a new release, but only among those who were fully bought into the Apple ecosystem. Their WWID events were falling off the face of public awareness. I think the people who found a use model for tablets of a particular sort that justified a tablet... they've all been found - and a lot of other people found that their tablet was forgotten for so long at a time when they *wanted* to use it, it was dead and needed to be charged first. 

And this had a subsequent impact on the people who cared about a good touch-oriented UI. I mean, even Ubuntu and Debian - their new default UI experience is based on the idea, "what if you want to install it on a touch-screen device..." 

But - who does? And even if you do - the problem is that if the UI interface is set up great for touch - the apps you LAUNCH still want a desktop/mouse UI for the most part. 

 

The touch UI was a bust. It is good for Kiosks and sometimes for art and a few other things - but in general, the GUI rules. Microsoft realized that, and never got their Modern/Metro UI interface with enough developer support... the touch apps all suck... Twitter and Facebook - and other web apps avoid it altogether because Microsoft, like Facebook - is simply uncool. 

So... I have a Surface Pro 5. I *never* use it in tablet mode - in part because if I'm going to be using Facebook on the Surface - the web based app is superior to the Modern UI App. Better integrated, more powerful... and that is the example with everything. Microsoft has no place in this market. Android and Apple have it cornered - but Microsoft has decided, rightly - it isn't the threat to their market that it appeared to be. 

The cloud itself is a big part of their strategy - but so is continuing to provide a great local app user interface and internally hosted experience.

Which really - Linux and OS X still have this focus too. If the "All apps are in the cloud," paradigm was as powerful as Ig believes it is - we would all dump ALL of our favorite local OSes and run Chromebooks. 

 

Wed Jun 23 2021 13:11:14 EDT from Nurb432

Next version of WiFi standards is supposed to do stuff like that.  ( the tracking part, not the AR part )

I agree the hype is gone, so now its just 'yet another boring toaster'.  People buy new ones when theirs break, but not a huge need to keep upgrading or standing in line for them.  ( much like all other devices these days most have reached a 'practical' plateau and its all incremental improvements. no 'wow factor' )

Wed Jun 23 2021 01:06:35 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions


We were all supposed to be working on touch-screen workstations, swiping and using other gestures that mimicked real world actions and activities - like in Tom Cruise in Minority Report of Tony Stark as Iron Man. 





 



[#] Thu Jun 24 2021 10:12:13 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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In 2010 I wrote a block post called "Sacrilege: I don't want an iPad" [http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Skeptic%20Tank?p=1518380187].  It seems to have held up remarkably well.

Tablets aren't popular with "computer people".  My 16 year old uses her tablet and her phone all day long, and doesn't own a computer.   When she has to do school work that requires a computer, she reluctantly uses the Chromebook issued to her by the school.

Part of it may be related to the fact that she hates sitting at a desk.  She would rather sit on a couch or in a comfy chair.  Touch-only devices probably work better there.

Any way you slice it, though ... tablets were a Bill Gates obsession, so it was quite pleasing to see Microsoft fail hard in this space where others succeeded.



[#] Thu Jun 24 2021 11:17:39 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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Nobody really succeeded though. Again - as a content consumption device there is a segment of the Computing Appliance demographic who likes and has found use models for the tablet - but the forecasts that tablets and touch UIs would be ubiquitous fell far short of expectations - and all manufacturers dialed back the focus on this design - or adapted it. Phablets were scoffed at - but at a certain size, they make a lot of sense - especially with functions like DEX where your Note 10 becomes basically a laptop core and interfaces with a monitor, keyboard and mouse. Laptops that have a tablet function like the Surface Pro have had a successful niche and lend themselves to certain applications... 

Tablets are something we throw to our kids to keep them quiet in the back seat, or to our mother-in-law so she can see family pictures on Facebook. That is their basic niche. 

But the majority of productivity work is still easier done on a traditional Windows GUI. I don't care if it is OS X, Linux or Windows - it is the best set of compromises for most people. 

 

Thu Jun 24 2021 10:12:13 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

In 2010 I wrote a block post called "Sacrilege: I don't want an iPad" [http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Skeptic%20Tank?p=1518380187].  It seems to have held up remarkably well.

Tablets aren't popular with "computer people".  My 16 year old uses her tablet and her phone all day long, and doesn't own a computer.   When she has to do school work that requires a computer, she reluctantly uses the Chromebook issued to her by the school.

Part of it may be related to the fact that she hates sitting at a desk.  She would rather sit on a couch or in a comfy chair.  Touch-only devices probably work better there.

Any way you slice it, though ... tablets were a Bill Gates obsession, so it was quite pleasing to see Microsoft fail hard in this space where others succeeded.



 



[#] Thu Jun 24 2021 14:43:41 EDT from Nurb432

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I always had a docking station + BT keyboard and mouse available to use for when i need to do something more than click and drool. ( or something quick ).   Perhaps im just different than most. But i see people with covers that have built in keyboard/stand.

 

That said, just before we got sent home was carrying around a chromebook with a fold around keyboard.  So same idea, just one package.  And normally its tablet mode..

 

Thu Jun 24 2021 10:12:13 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

  Touch-only devices probably work better there.

 



[#] Thu Jun 24 2021 14:47:28 EDT from Nurb432

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ChromeOS is mostly Linux anyway, with a funky GUI.  And newer versions, you can run Debian Linux in a VM ( fully supported, not some hackjob ), and Android apps too ( which is really Linux at its core ).   So you get all 3. 

And for me if i need windows, might as well just RDP to a box. so dont matter what im using. 

 

 

Not trying to sell anyone on one..  just that for me it works out well most of the time when im out and about.  

Wed Jun 23 2021 08:35:03 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

 


Which really - Linux and OS X still have this focus too. If the "All apps are in the cloud," paradigm was as powerful as Ig believes it is - we would all dump ALL of our favorite local OSes and run Chromebooks. 

 



[#] Thu Jun 24 2021 17:23:18 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Windows 10 + MacOS Dock + Ubuntu material design == Windows 11

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You won't read this anywhere else, because I got banned from ZDnet.  Jason Perlow took his head out of Satya Nadella's ass long enough to see that I pointed out all of the bullshit he was spewing.  So until my DHCP lease changes, you'll only hear the very best information about Windows 11 here on Uncensored.

For starters, no one got to see the release video in its entirety because it kept cutting out.  Microsoft apparently can't do a webcast with a large audience reliably.  They are probably using Microsoft products and services to do the streaming.  They should have had Google do it for them.

As the subject line states, Windows 11 basically looks like they took Windows 10, made the taskbar look like the MacOS dock, brought in the material design from Ubuntu, and called it a new OS.  It is, in all respects, singularly unimpressive.  People are going to be upset when they find that the Start Menu has been moved back into the middle of the screen.

For those of you who don't use Microsoft Teams, you do now.  It's built in to the operating system and cannot be removed, because that would cause the entire operating system to fail, just like Internet Explorer and Windows 98.

Windows 11 will supposedly run Android applications.  But for some poorly explained reason, you have to get your Android apps from the Amazon app store.

That's all for now.  May Bill Gates die painfully and soon.



[#] Thu Jun 24 2021 18:10:48 EDT from Nurb432

Subject: Re: Windows 10 + MacOS Dock + Ubuntu material design == Windows 11

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I'm forced to at the office. I hate it. Convoluted, confusing, unstable piece of cow poo.  Its like SharePoint on the wrong kind of steroids..  and i never thought anything could suck more than SP

Thu Jun 24 2021 05:23:18 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Windows 10 + MacOS Dock + Ubuntu material design == Windows 11

 

For those of you who don't use Microsoft Teams, you do now.  It's built in to the operating system and cannot be removed, because that would cause the entire operating system to fail, just like Internet Explorer and Windows 98.

 

 



[#] Thu Jun 24 2021 18:13:46 EDT from Nurb432

Subject: Re: Windows 10 + MacOS Dock + Ubuntu material design == Windows 11

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Google is a direct competitor.  Amazon, not as much. And i'm sure they spend a lot of $ on Microsoft crap on the back end, where i doubt Google does. They have their own OS, their own chips.. 

Thu Jun 24 2021 05:23:18 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Windows 10 + MacOS Dock + Ubuntu material design == Windows 11

 

Windows 11 will supposedly run Android applications.  But for some poorly explained reason, you have to get your Android apps from the Amazon app store.

 

 



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