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[#] Thu Jul 09 2015 11:53:34 EDT from fleeb

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Oh, right... wasn't thinking about the room's name.

[#] Thu Jul 09 2015 13:57:10 EDT from LoanShark

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Telemachus Sneezed...

[#] Thu Jul 09 2015 14:02:09 EDT from LoanShark

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They'll default. And then they'll truly know austerity.


I'm not sure if things can realistically get worse for them if they default. Doing so would certainly change the current negative equilibrium, upset the current impasse, create a new set of facts on the ground...

By the way, they've already defaulted. On an IMF repayment. This may not lead to a credit rating downgrade because it's not a default on a private-sector payment. IMF-speak uses "arrears" for default...

And oh, what the hell. Krugman is not much loved around here, but I might as well post this graph:

[#] Thu Jul 09 2015 18:09:09 EDT from LoanShark

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Veeeery interesting:

secret plans in the works to go Drachma, starting to leak out?

[#] Thu Jul 09 2015 22:39:23 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Oh, right... wasn't thinking about the room's name.

Friedrich Hayek and Margaret Thatcher are also shrugging, as they say, "what did you think would happen, idiots?"

[#] Thu Jul 09 2015 22:40:52 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Poor Argentina, the California penal system never let them have their pedophile back :)

[#] Thu Jul 09 2015 23:05:26 EDT from zooer

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Jul 9 2015 6:09pm from LoanShark

Veeeery interesting:

Yes, veeeerrrry interesting.

[#] Mon Jul 13 2015 13:18:07 EDT from LoanShark

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Greece to Europe: "well we could just default and leave and then you get nothing"
Europe to Greece: "please stay, we need a whipping boy to make an example of, strike fear into the heart of Hollande"
Greece to Europe: "OK. Your Jedi mind trick has succeeded. Can I get you a cup of coffee or a tourist brochure?"

[#] Mon Jul 13 2015 14:41:42 EDT from LoanShark

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"Itbs not that it didnbt go down well b there was point blank refusal to engage in economic arguments. Point blank. You put forward an argument that youbve really worked on, to make sure itbs logically coherent, and youbre just faced with blank
stares. It is as if you havenbt spoken. What you say is independent of what they say. You might as well have sung the Swedish national anthem b youbd have got the same reply...

"They would say we need all your data on the fiscal path on which Greek finds itself, all the data on state-owned enterprises. So we spent a lot of time trying to provide them with it and answering questionnaires and having countless meetings.

"So that would be the first phase. The second phase was theybd ask us what we intended to do on VAT. They would then reject our proposal but wouldnbt come up with a proposal of their own. And then, before
we would get a chance to agree on VAT, they would shift to another issue, like privatisation. They would ask what we want to do about privatisation: we put something forward, they would reject it. Then theybd move onto another topic, like pensions,
from there to product markets, from there to labour relationsb&

"We were set up."

--Yanis Varoufakis, (New Statesman, last Friday, sorry bad cut/paste)

So if half of this is true, it's not about economics, and it's not even about the bad behavior of all those greeks. It's about power politics.

[#] Mon Jul 13 2015 16:08:41 EDT from zooer

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Lamb souvlaki for everyone!


[#] Tue Jul 14 2015 07:15:17 EDT from dothebart

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hm, seems as if the brits don't like what the 18 euro states settled on... since it also contains their money (and they weren't asked...) this may become a major show stopper.

[#] Tue Jul 14 2015 09:18:22 EDT from LoanShark

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doubtful? The brits have less of a voice in the eurozone since they never joined.

[#] Tue Jul 14 2015 13:28:56 EDT from LoanShark

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"Imagine if one were to suggest that banks operating in Illinois should be required to hold large portfolios of Illinois state bonds, with their deposits insured by an Illinois state insurance scheme, and the Illinois state government responsible for recapitalization, if needed. The proposal would be dismissed as economic lunacy. In such a system, a recession would create a self-reinforcing spiral of deteriorating public finances, rising fears of bank insolvency, and declining credit extension. And yet, if you replace bIllinoisb with Ireland, Spain, or Greece, that is how things work in the eurozone.

[#] Tue Jul 14 2015 16:24:26 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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That might be over-complicating it a bit.   At the end of the day, it's all just paper.  Paper is only worth something if everyone agrees that it's worth something.  (Of course, that's also the case with various metals, but I digress...)

What does Greece actually produce that can make their economy work for them?  Sitting around at a cafe smoking cigarettes and trash-talking about the capitalists may be a fine pastime for them but it isn't going to pay the bills.

Until that problem is solved, they can Grexit and Grenter and Groadtrip all they want but they'll keep ending up in the same place.


[#] Wed Jul 15 2015 07:31:51 EDT from dothebart

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Tue Jul 14 2015 09:18:22 EDT from LoanShark
doubtful? The brits have less of a voice in the eurozone since they never joined.

all eu states are parts of the ESM, even if they don't have the euro.

[#] Wed Jul 15 2015 09:04:26 EDT from LoanShark

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yeah, but politically it's like... they've got a seat at the table, but the sign in front of that seat says "CHUCKLES"

[#] Fri Jul 17 2015 18:13:14 EDT from LoanShark

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it's sort of silly season now. UK is arguing that they should be ring-fenced from liability to pay any greece-related EFSF costs (EFSF is a EU-wide mechanism regardless of Euro membership) because UK is not a euro member, and greece is a euro-area problem.

remind me again why UK is a member at all...

[#] Mon Jul 20 2015 11:29:30 EDT from dothebart

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yea, UK is sort of splitting. They want to decide somewhen down this year whether they want to quit.

I guess if, the scotts are going to have another vote for whether they still want to remain in UK which then probably will result in a divorce, since the scottish are more europe friendly then the rest of UK.

It seems they don't earn their money with banks everybody wants to remove powers from - which was one of the biggest issues with UK and the rest of the EU in the last 5 years...

[#] Mon Jul 20 2015 16:03:40 EDT from LoanShark

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It seems they don't earn their money with banks everybody wants to
remove powers from - which was one of the biggest issues with UK and
the rest of the EU in the last 5 years...

liberal or conservative or libertarian, if you don't think banks and bankers have too much power, you haven't been paying attention. however, I'm not sure what you're saying here.

[#] Wed Jul 22 2015 11:22:58 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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No argument there, banking institutions are able to manipulate the economy in ways the rest of us cannot, and in the end they seldom end up losing real money.

However, when a writer uses the word "bankster" it is an immediate signal that the article and the writer are both trash and it's time to stop reading.

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