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[#] Fri Nov 27 2020 11:11:07 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Achievement Unlocked. RPi image made, restored and tested on a separate Pi. I've got a working backup of The Sanitarium now. 

Now to upgrade the production image to the latest version of Citadel and migrate it to the i5. 

This ought to be interesting. I do not trust that the upgrade is going to work right on Raspbian - so many other things not working quite right on that platform. But at least if I F it Up, I can go back. 


 



[#] Wed Dec 23 2020 18:46:31 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Citadel 930 released

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For those of you who have been waiting for RSS feeds in international languages to work properly, now is your time to gobble down the latest Citadel server, now available through Easy Install or through source tarballs.

This is also the first version of Citadel to use the new inbox rules handler.
If you had inbox rules configured before, they will carry over to the new system. Basically we're no longer using Sieve or libSieve, so this removes the dependency on an apparently abandoned library that some people were beginning to have trouble compiling.

This message serves as the release notes.

[#] Tue Mar 09 2021 11:40:28 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Citadel 931 released

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We are pleased to announce that Citadel 931 has been released. You can download the latest code through Easy Install or through source tarballs. (Regrettably, support for LFHS installs has ended, which means that distribution-specific packages are likely to end as well.)

The primary focus of this release is the "ctdlmigrate" utility. If you have been looking to move your Citadel installation to a different CPU architecture (for example, from Intel to ARM, or from 32-bit to 64-bit), you can upgrade your source system to version 931 and then clone it to the target system using ctdlmigrate. This utility has been made far more robust and reliable than it has been in the past.

[#] Wed Mar 10 2021 02:07:13 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: Citadel 931 released

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Awesome news. I wish I had been more available during this stage of the Citadel development process. 

 

Tue Mar 09 2021 11:40:28 EST from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Citadel 931 released


We are pleased to announce that Citadel 931 has been released. You can download the latest code through Easy Install or through source tarballs. (Regrettably, support for LFHS installs has ended, which means that distribution-specific packages are likely to end as well.)

The primary focus of this release is the "ctdlmigrate" utility. If you have been looking to move your Citadel installation to a different CPU architecture (for example, from Intel to ARM, or from 32-bit to 64-bit), you can upgrade your source system to version 931 and then clone it to the target system using ctdlmigrate. This utility has been made far more robust and reliable than it has been in the past.

 



[#] Fri Mar 12 2021 20:21:10 EST from markus

Subject: Re: Citadel 931 released

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Good news. Thanks for the new release!

Could you please list the issues that are fixed with this release?

 

Tue Mar 09 2021 11:40:28 EST from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Citadel 931 released


We are pleased to announce that Citadel 931 has been released. You can download the latest code through Easy Install or through source tarballs. (Regrettably, support for LFHS installs has ended, which means that distribution-specific packages are likely to end as well.)

The primary focus of this release is the "ctdlmigrate" utility. If you have been looking to move your Citadel installation to a different CPU architecture (for example, from Intel to ARM, or from 32-bit to 64-bit), you can upgrade your source system to version 931 and then clone it to the target system using ctdlmigrate. This utility has been made far more robust and reliable than it has been in the past.

 



[#] Wed May 26 2021 11:04:50 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Quick poll for users of Citadel on a Raspberry Pi

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This is a quick poll for anyone running, or interested in running, the Citadel system on Raspberry Pi. It may also apply to other ARM-based single board computers.

1. Do you have a 64-bit capable board, such as a Raspberry Pi 3 or 4? (Answer "yes" if you have such a board, even if you are running a 32-bit operating system.)

2. If so, would you be willing to install a 64-bit OS, such as the beta version of Raspberry Pi OS 64, or a 64-bit build of Ubuntu, if it meant you could run a binary distribution of Citadel without compiling it?


The reason I am taking this poll is because we will be releasing a binary distribution of Citadel using the "AppImage" system, and we would like to avoid having to maintain both 32-bit and 64-bit builds if possible. We have already decided that the x86 version will be 64-bit only. On ARM it's not so easy, because the Raspberry Pi Foundation is still pushing 32-bit operating systems on 64-bit boards.

[#] Wed May 26 2021 15:13:24 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: Quick poll for users of Citadel on a Raspberry Pi

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People attempting to run Citadel on Pi are such a corner case - I wouldn't bother asking them if I were you. 

For one thing, if they want to run it on their $35-$100 PC - it is just a matter of getting a second SD card, formatting it with the 64 bit beta build of Rpi OS, and if they don't like it, swapping back out. The Pi is a great "lab PC" in this regard because it is so easy to rapidly switch the entire profile of the computer just by plugging in a different SD card. 

And if they WANT *Citadel* on the Pi, they probably should be competent enough to get the 64bit version of a Pi OS running on it, too. 

Just my thoughts as someone who ran Citadel on a Pi 3b+ for a year or more. If I had found the Citadel page and it said, "Runs on a Pi with the 64 bit beta version of Rpi OS," it wouldn't have slowed me down for a second... especially if it were *well* supported and documented and easy to install and set up. 

Wed May 26 2021 11:04:50 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Quick poll for users of Citadel on a Raspberry Pi


The reason I am taking this poll is because we will be releasing a binary distribution of Citadel using the "AppImage" system, and we would like to avoid having to maintain both 32-bit and 64-bit builds if possible. We have already decided that the x86 version will be 64-bit only. On ARM it's not so easy, because the Raspberry Pi Foundation is still pushing 32-bit operating systems on 64-bit boards.

 



[#] Wed May 26 2021 16:36:39 EDT from Nurb432

Subject: Re: Quick poll for users of Citadel on a Raspberry Pi

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I realize my vote is not that important in the grand scheme of things, but i would also vote to drop 32 bit for ARM if its a pain to support. Its 2021 after all.

Anyone that wants to do it, can get a 64 bit version OS to run on it. Its not hard to do, and works just fine.  Just wont be the 'officially blessed' image. If they cant pull that off on their own, perhaps they need to look at something else to run..

 

 



[#] Wed May 26 2021 18:05:44 EDT from Nurb432

Subject: Re: Quick poll for users of Citadel on a Raspberry Pi

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Curious and i may have just missed it:

Will the app-images replace easy install someday, or just provide a 2nd option?  ( i hope never replace. Compilation is always the best thing to do in my book )



[#] Wed May 26 2021 19:44:12 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: Quick poll for users of Citadel on a Raspberry Pi

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Right ... I feel as if the time for the transition is *right* on the edge.
If we do 32-bit we'll have to support it for a long time, but if we do 64-bit we could potentially reject some potential users. I think the 64-bit era is going to go on for a long time, and if we can avoid having to deal with such a change I'd like to do it.

I currently have a 64-bit Pi with a 32-bit OS.

[#] Wed May 26 2021 19:49:44 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: Quick poll for users of Citadel on a Raspberry Pi

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Will the app-images replace easy install someday, or just provide a
2nd option?  ( i hope never replace. Compilation is always the best
thing to do in my book )

I don't see Easy Install going away. There are so many satisfied users, probably thousands of sites, it works well and generally gets the job done.

AppImage may become the flagship installation method, if it turns out to work well on the majority of systems. And if you have an x86 machine you can try it right now. A beta version is now available from the download page.
It really is "plug and play", just download a single file and run it.

[#] Wed May 26 2021 20:09:31 EDT from Nurb432

Subject: Re: Quick poll for users of Citadel on a Raspberry Pi

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ill spin up a vm this weekend. 

Wed May 26 2021 07:49:44 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Quick poll for users of Citadel on a Raspberry Pi
Will the app-images replace easy install someday, or just provide a
2nd option?  ( i hope never replace. Compilation is always the best
thing to do in my book )

I don't see Easy Install going away. There are so many satisfied users, probably thousands of sites, it works well and generally gets the job done.

AppImage may become the flagship installation method, if it turns out to work well on the majority of systems. And if you have an x86 machine you can try it right now. A beta version is now available from the download page.
It really is "plug and play", just download a single file and run it.

 



[#] Thu May 27 2021 10:35:40 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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I think the response you're going to get to the poll will say it all. 

You won't get complaints until AFTER you EOL 32 bit support for Pi. Those will be corner cases who weren't paying attention going, "How did this happen? Why wasn't I told?" 

 

 



[#] Thu May 27 2021 16:47:02 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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There won't be EOL because we haven't started supporting it.  Not with the binary AppImages.  They can continue to run Easy Install if they want to keep going on 32-bit.  And they can do a ctdlmigrate if they want to move to AppImage on 64-bit.  Heck, I have to do exactly that on x86 to move Uncensored to the AppImage distribution.

ctdlmigrate is a great experience now.  It isn't exactly fast but it's sooooper reliable compared to how it used to run.  And it uses color text and box drawing because I missed out on that during the days when DOS programmers could assume their terminal type but unix people had to deal with a terminfo database.

So far what I'm hearing is "go for 64 bit only and let them deal with it."  This is what I want to do, because in a couple of years everything's going to be 64 bit anyway.



[#] Thu May 27 2021 17:28:46 EDT from Nurb432

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I agree. Even if they cant do 64bit for some strange reason, the 'old' way of installing didnt go away on them.  Its not like you tossed them off the island. You are just telling them that they have to bring their own booze to the party.

Even for us old guys who covets our 8 bit Atari, the reality is tech moves on... 

 

Thu May 27 2021 04:47:02 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

There won't be EOL because we haven't started supporting it.  Not with the binary AppImages.  They can continue to run Easy Install if they want to keep going on 32-bit.  And they can do a ctdlmigrate if they want to move to AppImage on 64-bit.  Heck, I have to do exactly that on x86 to move Uncensored to the AppImage distribution.

ctdlmigrate is a great experience now.  It isn't exactly fast but it's sooooper reliable compared to how it used to run.  And it uses color text and box drawing because I missed out on that during the days when DOS programmers could assume their terminal type but unix people had to deal with a terminfo database.

So far what I'm hearing is "go for 64 bit only and let them deal with it."  This is what I want to do, because in a couple of years everything's going to be 64 bit anyway.



 



[#] Fri May 28 2021 09:29:50 EDT from darknetuser

Subject: Re: Quick poll for users of Citadel on a Raspberry Pi

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2021-05-26 11:04 from IGnatius T Foobar
Subject: Quick poll for users of Citadel on a Raspberry Pi

This is a quick poll for anyone running, or interested in running, the

Citadel system on Raspberry Pi. It may also apply to other ARM-based

single board computers.

1. Do you have a 64-bit capable board, such as a Raspberry Pi 3 or 4?

(Answer "yes" if you have such a board, even if you are running a
32-bit operating system.)

2. If so, would you be willing to install a 64-bit OS, such as the
beta version of Raspberry Pi OS 64, or a 64-bit build of Ubuntu, if it

meant you could run a binary distribution of Citadel without compiling

it?


The reason I am taking this poll is because we will be releasing a
binary distribution of Citadel using the "AppImage" system, and we
would like to avoid
having to maintain both 32-bit and 64-bit builds if
possible. We have already decided that the x86 version will be 64-bit

only. On ARM it's not so easy, because the Raspberry Pi Foundation is

still pushing 32-bit operating systems on 64-bit boards.



I considered installing Citadel in one of the earlier models, but compiling was too painful (rpi B at that) and the Debian package was very outdated. So I parked the project.

[#] Thu Jun 03 2021 13:33:05 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: AppImage releases of Citadel

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We are excited to unveil a new and easy way to install and run the Citadel system on Linux.

[ https://www.citadel.org/appimage.html ]

AppImage is a single-file binary that contains an entire application and all of its dependencies. This means most users will no longer have to sit through an Easy Install build. Just download the AppImage and run it. It's even capable of installing itself onto the system to start at every boot.
Upgrading will be just as easy.

We currently have beta release builds for 64-bit x86 and 32-bit ARM. Give them a try on the Linux system of your choice.

[#] Thu Jun 03 2021 13:44:38 EDT from Nurb432

Subject: Re: AppImage releases of Citadel

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If you need 64 bit ARM to compile and test against, let me know and ill get you access to one here. ( most likely Armbian, which is pretty generic and really common for ARM folks )

Thu Jun 03 2021 01:33:05 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: AppImage releases of Citadel

We are excited to unveil a new and easy way to install and run the Citadel system on Linux.

[ https://www.citadel.org/appimage.html ]

AppImage is a single-file binary that contains an entire application and all of its dependencies. This means most users will no longer have to sit through an Easy Install build. Just download the AppImage and run it. It's even capable of installing itself onto the system to start at every boot.
Upgrading will be just as easy.

We currently have beta release builds for 64-bit x86 and 32-bit ARM. Give them a try on the Linux system of your choice.

 



[#] Fri Jun 04 2021 12:02:45 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: AppImage releases of Citadel

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Not to worry ... I have just received word that a Pi 4 is being contributed by a generous donor, so if I want to, I can keep doing 32-bit builds on the Pi 3 that PD contributed, and 64-bit on the Pi 4.

That having been said, I still do not expect we will need to support both for a long time. The transition to 64-bit on x86 is pretty much complete at this point, and it will probably happen soon on ARM.

So ... for anyone interested in trying out the AppImage on a Raspberry Pi or other ARM board, go ahead and download the image we have on the web site.
Just don't run it in production yet :)

[#] Fri Jun 04 2021 12:24:41 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: AppImage releases of Citadel

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Awesome. 

You should really put up a Patreon and encourage users to donate equipment they want to see Citadel running stable on. Many other developers have adopted this method to get a little appreciation for their FOSS efforts. 

 

Fri Jun 04 2021 12:02:45 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: AppImage releases of Citadel

Not to worry ... I have just received word that a Pi 4 is being contributed by a generous donor, so if I want to, I can keep doing 32-bit builds on the Pi 3 that PD contributed, and 64-bit on the Pi 4.

That having been said, I still do not expect we will need to support both for a long time. The transition to 64-bit on x86 is pretty much complete at this point, and it will probably happen soon on ARM.

So ... for anyone interested in trying out the AppImage on a Raspberry Pi or other ARM board, go ahead and download the image we have on the web site.
Just don't run it in production yet :)

 



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