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[#] Sun Aug 02 2020 15:40:32 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

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very cool! some links from web searches points to 404 pages though.

Links from search engines to www.citadel.org are likely to 404 for a little while this year, because we just completed a major overhaul of the web site and the links have all changed. This will sort itself out on its own, of course.

Links from search engines to uncensored.citadel.org should be pretty good.
At the very least, they should get you within +-20 messages of what you searched for and into the correct room, because the search engines see the same paginated view that humans do.

[#] Mon Aug 31 2020 10:44:20 UTC from Freakdog

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Are there supposed to be links on this page?

http://www.citadel.org/download.html

Clicking anywhere in the boxes will take you to the destination.

Note...the "Packages" box has no clickability...methinks this is an indication that you should seek out your distibution's packages, from them, should you desire to run from there.

[#] Tue Sep 01 2020 13:23:30 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

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Correct. I'm actually planning to replace that box when we have an official Dockerized version of Citadel.

[#] Tue Oct 06 2020 16:21:47 UTC from warbaby

Subject: New web site..."user contributed procedures.."

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I really like it!  Only a few minor things.. and a feature request.. 

* Some of the formatting didn't survive the conversion process..

* Speaking specifically about any kind of code syntax highlighting..

* I write a lot of documents in markdown.. convert with pandoc.. and get by with only one or two html tags..

* One important of which is <code> </code>, a clearly delineated block of code for somebody to copy & paste..

* The new citadel website could use this, or a similar class in a few locations.. (bash stuff, and "commands")..

* I'd also like to see the ability to submit user created procedures or recipes.. how to, etc..

* Submit in plain markdown.md with <code></code> tags..

* Possibly as "comments" on an article, but mainly thinking about "how to", "tips and tricks" sections...

* Users scp/ftp their markdown file somewhere.. somebody looks at it, moves it to another directory (admin approval!)

* Markdown gets auto-generated into html on a "how to/tutorial" page..

It would be really nice.. I have a lot to contribute!

 

Sat Jul 04 2020 12:26:02 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

In other CitaNews, I'm pleased to announce that we have launched our new and improved project web site.

[ http://www.citadel.org ]

This has been in the works for a long time. The very dated-looking dokuwiki site has been retired. All of the information from that site has been moved to the new site, and much of it has been rewritten to become up to date with the current state of the Citadel system.

Corrections and suggestions are always welcome, of course.

 



[#] Tue Oct 06 2020 18:25:18 UTC from warbaby

Subject: New web site.. "css style for pre tag"

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Okay, forget "<code>" <pre> is already in use.. it's just not styled.

I didn't intend complex syntax highlighting requiring a javascript package.. just enough css for a little code block.

I was thinking something.. like this. (It looks a little better outside the tinymce editor.. ), just enough to be clear it's actual "code" or "commands".

It would be nice to have this on Uncensored! also for doing support stuff. I find myself typing <pre style="font-family:mono;"> a lot.

I bumped up the font size for visibility here.. probably not necessary.. Base font size is alleged to be 16px anyway..

pre {
    height: auto;
    overflow: auto;
    background-color: #fcfcfc;
    border-left: 5px solid #02b0ef;
    margin: 1.7em 0 1.7em .3em;
    word-break: normal !important;
    word-wrap: normal !important;
    white-space: pre !important;
    color: #000;
    font-size: 16px;
}


#!/bin/bash
echo "The rain in Spain stays mainly on the plain."

sudo su


[#] Fri Oct 09 2020 15:54:31 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: New web site.. "css style for pre tag"

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I've applied the suggested modification.  It looks pretty good ... although there's an issue with the margin.

So if you want to contribute, let's do this.   I've placed the entire site into a git repository [ https://code.citadel.org/ ] under "www.citadel.org.git".   See if you can pull that down and tinker with it.  If it looks like something you can work with, we can either do pull requests or I'll set up an account with write access to the repository.

The site is, very deliberately, built with static HTML.  The only dynamic portion of it at all is the use of server-side includes to put a consistent header and footer on each page.  My goal was to move away from maintaining a document management system so that the web site is simple, maintainable, and doesn't consume time that would be better spent on Citadel itself.   (The old site used a wiki as its CMS with the intention of community maintenance, but it eventually got into pretty bad shape.)



[#] Fri Oct 09 2020 16:49:52 UTC from warbaby

Subject: Re: New web site.. "css style for pre tag"

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Thank you Art!..

I tried to clone the new repo..

I assumed the root would be the same as the other repositories, but maybe there's something to do to set it public. 

git clone git://git.citadel.org/appl/gitroot/www.citadel.org.git

Cloning into 'www.citadel.org'...
fatal: remote error: access denied or repository not exported: /appl/gitroot/www.citadel.org.git

Anyway, I downloaded a snapshot of HEAD..

I'll take a look at it.  We're doing a lot of html page conversions right now..

I don't mean to sound so narrowly focused and autistic that it doesn't sound like I am clearly addressing something... but..

The best composition and storage format for us has been markdown.. [I have an api basically, to convert pages back to markdown on the fly! .. ]

Markdown then lends itself well to conversion to both html and tex (html to tex is not so great, it's messy.. so we usually start with markdown and only a few css tags.)

Because our end goal is always printable books. [That's a thing we do a lot of.  Markdown -> latex -> printable pdf source]

You can generate html at any point, preferably after everything is proofed in the origin format. 

Most of the static site (and documentation) generators work with markdown also. 

And it's not like it would be hard to write one (static generator). 

The harder part is "designing" the book.  The craft of outlining, table of contents.. index, etc..

I've been maintaining some of my own citadel docs for a while now..Some things I've had to dig out of the wayback machine..

Really looking forward to getting to this.

You have a nice weekend!

:)

 

 



[#] Fri Oct 09 2020 19:21:42 UTC from warbaby

Subject: Updated <pre> css..

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Art, this will fix the issue with the margin on the pre tag. I think it looks pretty good for the short term. 

pre {
	height: auto;
	overflow: auto;
	background-color: #F8F8F8;
	border-left: 5px solid #02b0ef;
	margin: 1.7em 0 1.7em .3em;
	word-break: normal !important;
	word-wrap: normal !important;
	white-space: pre !important;
	color: #000;
	padding: 20px;
}



You might want to add 

min-height: 600px;

to 

.w3-container

.. a few of those pages a looking a little short!  

But I'll do a better rundown next week.



[#] Fri Oct 09 2020 22:20:56 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: New web site.. "css style for pre tag"

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A couple of thoughts:

1. I've applied the supplied fix to the PRE style, and it's looking good.
Thanks.

2. I did a "chmod -R git:git" on the www.citadel.org.git repository, so try it again.

3. Regarding the use of markdown, it's not out of the question but there has to be a way to make it easy and automatic to convert to HTML. If the web server can be programmed to translate ".md" files to HTML automatically, and also slap the header and footer on as it does so, then that's something we can look at. Alternately, we could use a Makefile to automatically build .html files from .md files, since we're treating the web site as a build now instead of as a CMS.

4. I'm thinking now that I definitely want your web design expertise on the front end of webcit-ng, if you're willing.

[#] Fri Oct 09 2020 23:21:52 UTC from warbaby

Subject: Re: New web site.. "css style for pre tag"

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I'm just guessing at the URL for that repo Art! .. I have no idea what it is.. I checked the .git/config for the main citadel repo..and just "estimated" this..

git://git.citadel.org/appl/gitroot/www.citadel.org.git

That's what I'm guessing.. tried https and had a big laugh! You should try it.. 

git clone https://git.citadel.org/appl/gitroot/www.citadel.org.git

So, I'm sure we'll get that sorted out, but as I mentioned, I did download the whole snapshot of HEAD.

As to the rest, I'm thinking it might be good break it out into separate threads, but just to touch on things:

3. I was thinking mainly of the user contributed stuff, but I did take a look at the html of the other pages.

 The only difference would be having the body of the document entirely in its own file, and the layout css around it, being part of the outer layout.

So instead of this

<div class="w3-row-padding w3-padding-64 w3-container">

<h1>Title of Document</h1>

<!-- HTML Body of document --!>

</div>


The page/article would contain only this.

<h1>Title of Document</h1>

<!-- HTML Body of document --!>


And the outer tags come from a script that builds it all. This is really simple. Even that can be automated.. I mean, parsing out those div tags.

[Very helpful to have it nice and portable like this when web stuff changes around!]

I've got much more complicated stuff building entire documents from web pages in Latex..

I'm not on any crusade about Markdown.. not in a "cargo cult".. it's just a handy intermediate format.  easy to write.. entirely readable by itself.. It can contain html.  You can pandoc it to pretty much anything you want.

3.5 - Yes. and yes.  All that code should be documented, and that's how I was thinking about it.

4. I'll do whatever I can, particularly to free you up for writing C for the key value store. I'm used to higher level abstractions, so that's harder for me.

I'm quite invested in Citadel.. we use and rely on it.  And have for many years.. so short of anything unexpected, I am happy to help.

Thanks for your vote of confidence!

 

Fri Oct 09 2020 06:20:56 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored Subject: Re: New web site.. "css style for pre tag"

A couple of thoughts:

1. I've applied the supplied fix to the PRE style, and it's looking good.
Thanks.

2. I did a "chmod -R git:git" on the www.citadel.org.git repository, so try it again.

3. Regarding the use of markdown, it's not out of the question but there has to be a way to make it easy and automatic to convert to HTML. If the web server can be programmed to translate ".md" files to HTML automatically, and also slap the header and footer on as it does so, then that's something we can look at. Alternately, we could use a Makefile to automatically build .html files from .md files, since we're treating the web site as a build now instead of as a CMS.

4. I'm thinking now that I definitely want your web design expertise on the front end of webcit-ng, if you're willing.

 



[#] Tue Oct 13 2020 20:17:35 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: New web site.. "css style for pre tag"

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I'm just guessing at the URL for that repo Art! .. I have no idea
what it is.. I checked the .git/config for the main citadel repo..and
just "estimated" this..
git://git.citadel.org/appl/gitroot/www.citadel.org.git

Ok, after racking my brains on this for way longer than should have been necessary ...

It's working now. And yes, that is the correct git URL. (No, HTTPS doesn't work.)

It turns out I had my git-daemon set to serve from /appl/gitroot/citadel.git, prohibiting clones of any other repository no matter how nicely I encouraged it. :(

All righty then ... back to the day job for a few more hours and then I'll get back to this again.

[#] Tue Oct 13 2020 21:58:58 UTC from warbaby

Subject: Re: New web site.. "css style for pre tag"

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I've got it, thanks Art!

Tue Oct 13 2020 04:17:35 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored Subject: Re: New web site.. "css style for pre tag"
I'm just guessing at the URL for that repo Art! .. I have no idea
what it is.. I checked the .git/config for the main citadel repo..and
just "estimated" this..
git://git.citadel.org/appl/gitroot/www.citadel.org.git

Ok, after racking my brains on this for way longer than should have been necessary ...

It's working now. And yes, that is the correct git URL. (No, HTTPS doesn't work.)

It turns out I had my git-daemon set to serve from /appl/gitroot/citadel.git, prohibiting clones of any other repository no matter how nicely I encouraged it. :(

All righty then ... back to the day job for a few more hours and then I'll get back to this again.

 



[#] Wed Oct 21 2020 02:12:49 UTC from warbaby

Subject: A documentation proof of concept...

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Just to follow up to an extent.. sorry to be running behind, but time has been a rare commodity lately..

My last post in Support, "How to auto compact db files [Tutorial] and a Proof of Concept.."

was directed to answer the question about db file size, so I also used the opportunity to write it in markdown.

Have a look at the pdf.. [Also attached here.. ]

This is the direction I think a lot of the Citadel documentation could be going..

 



automatically-compact-citadel-database-files-with-c_shrink_db_files.pdf (application/pdf, 453039 bytes) [ View | Download ]
[#] Wed Oct 21 2020 02:40:19 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: A documentation proof of concept...

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I like every bit of it (even the shame of BSD curly brackets ... which I've already fixed). May I assume you wrote the source document in markdown and then converted to PDF?

And yes, the c_shrink_db_files has been there for a while ... I don't quite remember how the discussion started, but I discovered that Berkeley DB had acquired a "compact" function, so I added the option to use it, figuring that whoever was asking for it would give it a good hard test. I guess it worked because we never heard from them again.

According to the commit timestamp, that was over three years ago. Actually it was just a couple of weeks before The Accident so I'm just going to use the excuse that the painkiller meds flushed c_shrink_db_files out of my brain and I forgot about it :)

[#] Fri Oct 30 2020 15:13:13 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

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As a quick announcement --

www.citadel.org has been moved to new hosting arrangements. There should have been no noticeable changes, but if you see anything let me know and we'll take care of it right away.

[#] Fri Oct 30 2020 18:19:14 UTC from warbaby

Subject: Archived! .. new host seems nice and fast

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I extracted all the public facing (internally linked) urls, and am archiving them all on the wayback machine at the moment..

List of urls attached, and also a few 404s.

...just some documentation.  I've been compiling a list of older 404s I was hoping to provide redirects sometime in the future.. 

 

Fri Oct 30 2020 11:13:13 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

As a quick announcement --

www.citadel.org has been moved to new hosting arrangements. There should have been no noticeable changes, but if you see anything let me know and we'll take care of it right away.

 



404.txt (text/plain, 4215 bytes) [View| Download]
urls.txt (text/plain, 17389 bytes) [View| Download]
[#] Fri Oct 30 2020 18:46:16 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: Archived! .. new host seems nice and fast

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It's funny that you are finding it nice and fast, because the site is currently hosted in a 1 CPU, 768 MB VRAM virtual machine on my home computer :)

That may or may not be its permanent home, but that's where it's running right now.

[#] Fri Oct 30 2020 18:56:41 UTC from tony <tony@instaview.com> to room_citanews@uncensored.citadel.org

Subject: Re: [CitaNews] Re: Archived! .. new host seems nice and fast

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I noticed its much faster too..

On 10/30/20 2:46 PM, IGnatius T Foobar wrote:

It's funny that you are finding it nice and fast, because the site is currently
hosted in a 1 CPU, 768 MB VRAM virtual machine on my home computer :)

That may or may not be its permanent home, but that's where it's running
right now.

[#] Sun Nov 01 2020 07:08:06 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: [CitaNews] Re: Archived! .. new host seems nice and fast

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Well, see if it's still faster now. I've moved it to what will now be more or less its final location.

[#] Sun Nov 01 2020 14:04:18 UTC from tony <tony@instaview.com> to room_citanews@uncensored.citadel.org

Subject: Re: [CitaNews] Re: Archived! .. new host seems nice and fast

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Still seems quite responsive to me.


On 11/1/20 2:08 AM, IGnatius T Foobar wrote:
Well, see if it's still faster now. I've moved it to what will now be more
or less its final location.

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