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[#] Fri Nov 13 2020 18:26:08 EST from Nurb432

Subject: An alternative ?

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https://codeloop.org/python-how-to-make-browser-in-pyqt5-with-pyqtwebengine/

 

Too bad everything is now client side. Wasn't how the web was supposed to be. But if it was still, would be a lot easier to code safe alternatives to use.



[#] Sun Nov 15 2020 21:44:37 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: An alternative ?

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Too bad everything is now client side. Wasn't how the web was
supposed to be. But if it was still, would be a lot easier to code

It's not what Tim Berners-Lee originally envisioned. It is what Netscape envisioned. It is what Sun envisioned. Those pioneers tried to get there in one step, and were destroyed by the giants who were not ready for it. But if you compare a modern client-side web app to the original Java vision -- that is, before it failed on the client side and became the new COBOL instead -- we got there. We totally got there:

* Write once, run anywhere.
* Application code loads from the server at the moment the program is run, never saved locally.
* Upgrade the server, never push upgrades to clients.
* Printing sucks.

So ... Netscape didn't live to see the browser replace Windows as the most popular client platform, Sun didn't live to see JavaStations replace PCs as the most popular client side hardware, but their vision totally became reality.

[#] Mon Nov 16 2020 10:02:06 EST from LoanShark

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ironic that the "low tech" JavaScript ended up being the do-everything answer. Leaner and meaner than Java.

(I'm doing a lot of work with Webpack and Babel and transpilers lately... it's kinda nice to have a static that lets you use full ECMAScript 6 or 8 or whatever the latest is, with async's and modules, and yet compile it down to a bundle that your average browser can understand.)

[#] Mon Nov 16 2020 10:03:38 EST from LoanShark

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*stack, not static.

Actually probably not fair to say I'm doing "a lot" of work in that area, but it was an interesting side gig over the weekend, and this is te stack our UI team uses.

[#] Tue Nov 17 2020 15:13:08 EST from Nurb432

Subject: Re: An alternative ?

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I totally agree with the vision not being what it was in the beginning, and I also do not like what its (de)evolved into, but reality is we are not going back to pure web again of just simple display clients. So have to make the best of what we have.  

My example: Having source and building it yourself, helps. At least from a security standpoint. But true, you are relying on others to point out issues. I know i dont have time to read thru all that code...

Sun Nov 15 2020 21:44:37 EST from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: An alternative ?
Too bad everything is now client side. Wasn't how the web was
supposed to be. But if it was still, would be a lot easier to code

It's not what Tim Berners-Lee originally envisioned. It is what Netscape envisioned. It is what Sun envisioned. Those pioneers tried to get there in one step, and were destroyed by the giants who were not ready for it. But if you compare a modern client-side web app to the original Java vision -- that is, before it failed on the client side and became the new COBOL instead -- we got there. We totally got there:

* Write once, run anywhere.
* Application code loads from the server at the moment the program is run, never saved locally.
* Upgrade the server, never push upgrades to clients.
* Printing sucks.

So ... Netscape didn't live to see the browser replace Windows as the most popular client platform, Sun didn't live to see JavaStations replace PCs as the most popular client side hardware, but their vision totally became reality.

 



[#] Tue Nov 17 2020 15:55:15 EST from Nurb432

Subject: Re: An alternative ?

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Wow, should not be sending posts with a migraine.

 

Short version:

Today is not what the founders envisioned..  But we are stuck. And source code helps.

 

Tue Nov 17 2020 15:13:08 EST from Nurb432 Subject: Re: An alternative ?

I totally agree with the vision not being what it was in the beginning, and I also do not like what its (de)evolved into, but reality is we are not going back to pure web again of just simple display clients. So have to make the best of what we have.  

My example: Having source and building it yourself, helps. At least from a security standpoint. But true, you are relying on others to point out issues. I know i dont have time to read thru all that code...


 


 



[#] Mon Dec 07 2020 08:52:26 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: An alternative ?

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"stuck" is maybe not the best choice of words when you think about what happened:

The web evolved from a distributed document management system to a user environment that replaced Windows as the primary application delivery platform.

It isn't what Tim Berners-Lee envisioned, but it sure as hell is what Marc Andreesen envisioned.  And he did it.  Horray for the web.



[#] Mon Dec 07 2020 09:54:17 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: An alternative ?

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I still run *most* of my applications that really matter locally. Increasingly, I am more hostile toward hosted applications. I don't want Creative Cloud - because Adobe keeps moving my cheese - and it takes me a half hour to relearn how to do it their new and improved way every time I launch Illustrator or Photoshop. Paint Shop Pro, though - I'm still on the 2018 version - and everything is right where I left it. 

The Google Play Music/YouTube Music, where do I buy my music now issue - has me considering going all the way back to just buying CDs from Amazon and ripping them to digital format. 

Of course, I still *acquire* the majority of these things through the web. To me, the web just became a big 24x7x365 mail-order catalog. It is Digital Turn Of the Century Sears. 

 


Mon Dec 07 2020 08:52:26 EST from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: An alternative ?

The web evolved from a distributed document management system to a user environment that replaced Windows as the primary application delivery platform.

 



 



[#] Mon Dec 07 2020 10:07:39 EST from zooer

Subject: Re: An alternative ?

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Mon Dec 07 2020 09:54:17 AM EST from ParanoidDelusions

The Google Play Music/YouTube Music, where do I buy my music now issue - has me considering going all the way back to just buying CDs from Amazon and ripping them to digital format. 

Does Amazon still allow you to download music?



[#] Mon Dec 07 2020 12:44:46 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: An alternative ?

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Checked last night, and it doesn't look like it. 

That is the infuriating thing - these corporations all seem to move in lockstep - making the same decisions that put them in more control and hurt the consumer at the same time. 

Remember when the government used to do anti-competition and anti-trust investigations when tech companies pulled this kind of shit? 

 

Mon Dec 07 2020 10:07:39 EST from zooer Subject: Re: An alternative ?

Does Amazon still allow you to download music?



 



[#] Sun Dec 13 2020 14:34:22 EST from Nurb432

Subject: Re: An alternative ?

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I never stopped. I still buy 'hard' media, be it movies, books or music. Then i either rip/scan it myself or "find" it out on the network and pack the original safely away so it cant be damaged. ( is 'finding' 100% legal, no, but i dare any judge to say anything when i wave the original in the air )

Of course 99% of my music is Indi as i HATE mainstream music, so that helps there too.

 

And ya, 'cloud services suck', unless you are running the service..

Mon Dec 07 2020 09:54:17 EST from ParanoidDelusions Subject: Re: An alternative ?



The Google Play Music/YouTube Music, where do I buy my music now issue - has me considering going all the way back to just buying CDs from Amazon and ripping them to digital format. 


 



[#] Sun Dec 13 2020 14:37:08 EST from Nurb432

Subject: Re: An alternative ?

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Most of them are working for the government now. just not 'overtly', so they have to be careful not to piss off their 'propaganda wing', but still appear to be 'hard on them' to the public.  what a freaking scam.

Mon Dec 07 2020 12:44:46 ESTfrom ParanoidDelusions Subject: Re: An alternative ?



Remember when the government used to do anti-competition and anti-trust investigations when tech companies pulled this kind of shit? 

 

 



[#] Sun Dec 20 2020 18:01:17 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: An alternative ?

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Remember when the government used to do anti-competition and
anti-trust investigations when tech companies pulled this kind of
shit? 

Not in our lifetime they didn't. Now they just have antitrust theater hearings, after which the monopolists know whose coffers they are expected to fill.

[#] Mon Dec 21 2020 08:20:14 EST from Nurb432

Subject: Re: An alternative ?

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Bell systems? I still remember that.  I lived thru it, being a bell-baby.

To an extent Microsoft with IE.  ( sure it was a hand-slap fine and not a break up, but it still happened )

Sun Dec 20 2020 18:01:17 EST from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: An alternative ?
Remember when the government used to do anti-competition and
anti-trust investigations when tech companies pulled this kind of
shit? 

Not in our lifetime they didn't. Now they just have antitrust theater hearings, after which the monopolists know whose coffers they are expected to fill.

 



[#] Mon Dec 21 2020 14:10:43 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: An alternative ?

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Yeah. I think Microsoft was the last company to really face genuine threat of Government restriction for their behavior. At the very least, the Government was still shaking the stick at them and putting on a show for the public. 

Now they don't even bother trying to convince us. At least give me a song and dance while you're screwing me. 

It is like the difference between gentle prison love with a kiss and gang rape in the showers. 

 

Mon Dec 21 2020 08:20:14 EST from Nurb432 Subject: Re: An alternative ?

Bell systems? I still remember that.  I lived thru it, being a bell-baby.

To an extent Microsoft with IE.  ( sure it was a hand-slap fine and not a break up, but it still happened )

Sun Dec 20 2020 18:01:17 EST from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: An alternative ?
Remember when the government used to do anti-competition and
anti-trust investigations when tech companies pulled this kind of
shit? 

Not in our lifetime they didn't. Now they just have antitrust theater hearings, after which the monopolists know whose coffers they are expected to fill.

 



 



[#] Mon Dec 21 2020 14:19:20 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: An alternative ?

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To an extent Microsoft with IE.  ( sure it was a hand-slap fine and
not a break up, but it still happened )

Microsoft's divestiture was called off in 2001 when a more well-bribed AG took over.

Bottom line, of course, is that trust busting is no longer a thing, because it requires the trust busters to be un-buy-able. IBM's monopoly came to an end when the world moved past mainframes. Microsoft's monopoly came to an end when the world moved past desktop computers. Both companies were presented with toothless "consent decrees" that had little effect on their business practices.

[#] Mon Dec 21 2020 21:41:22 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: An alternative ?

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Remember when the government used to do anti-competition and
anti-trust investigations when tech companies pulled this kind of
shit? 



[#] Thu Dec 31 2020 13:44:03 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Re: An alternative ?

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Actually I don't. I've heard that it used to happen in the early 20th century.
But in modern times we have the best antitrust investigators money can buy.

[#] Sat Feb 20 2021 06:29:44 EST from zooer

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[#] Sat Feb 20 2021 11:26:52 EST from darknetuser

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2021-02-20 06:29 from zooer
Brave browser’s Tor feature found to leak .onion queries to ISPs
https://portswigger.net/daily-swig/brave-browsers-tor-feature-found-to

-leak-onion-queries-to-isps

or https://rb.gy/vaslzn


That sucks cocks.

Yet another reason tooperate your own DNS in your LAN with a nice set of rules for .onion and .i2p domains.

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