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[#] Mon Dec 06 2021 23:30:29 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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I've highlighted the US, East Coast "proper English" in this sentence, as maybe I was a bit too subtle, the first time around. 

Tue Nov 16 2021 00:40:20 EST from ParanoidDelusions

I found this particular line fairly amusing. :) 

 

 
 A lot of non-english speaking people is amazed by some ideas English speakers have, because they have never heard them in a language they understand.




 



[#] Mon Dec 06 2021 23:43:32 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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BBC been have you day covered done, me sabby keen tho, Ig! 

https://www.bbc.com/pidgin

 



Mon Dec 06 2021 23:30:29 EST from ParanoidDelusions
 
 A lot of non-english speaking people is amazed by some ideas English speakers have, because they have never heard them in a language they understand.






[#] Sun Jan 09 2022 07:33:05 EST from Nurb432

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 i read more rocket attacks down in that part of the world this week . Hope our friends like TrilCat are ok.

 

I know the stupidity will never end, but it really needs to. 



[#] Tue Feb 01 2022 21:08:34 EST from LoanShark

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The stupidity will never end. The main problem I have lately is with intellectually-dishonest leftists who have tried to convince themselves that if we just do everything their way, the stupidity will end.

I talked to this one guy whose whole argument was more or less, "it's 2020! Time for this to end!"

Wrong. Change doesn't follow some predetermined monotonically-increasing-progress-clock.

[#] Mon Mar 07 2022 16:57:32 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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It is, after all, the current year. Educate yourself and check your privilege.

<<retch>>

[#] Wed Mar 09 2022 01:36:11 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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I hate this particular brand of Leftist logic. 

"It is time for us to evolve," 

Into what? 

"A global unity of peace and compassion as defined by my political ideology and philosophy." 

But - what if I don't think this is progress? 

"Then you are part of the problem holding us back!" 

Their argument assumes the antecedent, "Liberalism is a logical evolution of human society," without ever proving it. 

 

Tue Feb 01 2022 21:08:34 EST from LoanShark

The stupidity will never end. The main problem I have lately is with intellectually-dishonest leftists who have tried to convince themselves that if we just do everything their way, the stupidity will end.

I talked to this one guy whose whole argument was more or less, "it's 2020! Time for this to end!"

Wrong. Change doesn't follow some predetermined monotonically-increasing-progress-clock.

 



[#] Fri Mar 11 2022 13:53:42 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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It isn't about left-right anymore. Authoritarians come in all stripes.

[#] Fri Mar 11 2022 19:12:35 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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This is a cop-out the Left started using since they went full authoritarian. It is a form of "what-about-ism". It became a very popular Leftist arguing point through 2018 to present and reached a crescendo when Trudeau decided to invoke emergency wartime powers against a bunch of dudes in semi-trucks. 

It basically says, "sure - there are some people being shits on the Left... but what about the RIGHT? We've got to keep the RIGHT trampled, because THEIR authoritarians are *fascists* who target specific people. OUR authoritarians simply want to do what is BEST for you, for the world, for your child, for equality, equity and liberty. They may be going about it wrong - but their heart is in the right place - and THAT is what matters. So, this isn't ABOUT Left/Right - it is about authoritarians, and they come in all stripes..." 


("but the worst ones are the fascist ones on the Right. Don't forget that...") 

 

Fri Mar 11 2022 13:53:42 EST from IGnatius T Foobar
It isn't about left-right anymore. Authoritarians come in all stripes.

 



[#] Sat Mar 12 2022 07:05:40 EST from Nurb432

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But that isn't what he was saying. To me it was more that that all "sides" are bad. 

Fri Mar 11 2022 07:12:35 PM EST from ParanoidDelusions

OUR authoritarians simply want to do what is BEST for you, for the world, for your child, for equality, equity and liberty. 



 



[#] Sat Mar 12 2022 09:52:20 EST from zelgomer

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Considering that fascism grew out of a socialist movement, I can't help but think that this left-right model is deficient at describing the full political spectrum. As I see it, fascists and communists are both authoritarian central planning, they only disagree on how to carry it out.

If the spectrum is communism on the left and fascism on the right, then my political values don't fit anywhere on this map.

Either that or the left is lying when they define fascism to be far right, just like they want to redefine other words in our lexicon.

[#] Sat Mar 12 2022 15:12:25 EST from Nurb432

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I think the extremes in anything lie to support their agenda. 



[#] Sat Mar 12 2022 16:55:56 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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Either that or the left is lying when they define fascism to be far
right, just like they want to redefine other words in our lexicon.

The idea that fascism is far-right is a lie, just like global warming and all the other hoaxes. Everything they say is a lie, you know that by now.
Their flawed logic is something like: Mussolini was a fascist, so Hitler was a fascist too, and Hitler was also a racist, we think the political right are racists, therefore the political right are also fascists.

[#] Sun Mar 13 2022 13:12:33 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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I personally like the example of a ring, where at the bottom, regardless of if you follow the Left arc or the Right arc, you meet authoritarianism. 

As opposed to a linear progression from Left to Right. 

But I was simplifying - so that my opponents could argue the minutia of what I said by bringing more detail into the conversation than was originally presented - thereby keeping the continuum of conversation on Uncensored flowing with passionate dialog and lots of posts. Cuz I'm just a giver. 

;) 

 

Sat Mar 12 2022 09:52:20 EST from zelgomer
Considering that fascism grew out of a socialist movement, I can't help but think that this left-right model is deficient at describing the full political spectrum. As I see it, fascists and communists are both authoritarian central planning, they only disagree on how to carry it out.

If the spectrum is communism on the left and fascism on the right, then my political values don't fit anywhere on this map.

Either that or the left is lying when they define fascism to be far right, just like they want to redefine other words in our lexicon.

 



[#] Sun Mar 13 2022 13:16:09 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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This is denial. 

There is a LOT of fascism and racism in the far political right, all across the world. Everyone knows it. The moderate Right would do well to stop denying it. 

But the truth is, they know this - the margins are so slim, both sides *need* their radical extremes to win elections. You can't alienate any voting bloc, not even your lunatics. 

And then the moderates on each side use the lunatic fringe to show what their opposition "supports". 

The mainstream Left doesn't *want* to alienate AntiFA or BLM. The Right doesn't want to alienate white nationalists. 

If you meant "Both sides are bad," you wouldn't respond with rhetoric like this to my statements. 


Sat Mar 12 2022 16:55:56 EST from IGnatius T Foobar
Either that or the left is lying when they define fascism to be far
right, just like they want to redefine other words in our lexicon.

The idea that fascism is far-right is a lie, just like global warming and all the other hoaxes. Everything they say is a lie, you know that by now.
Their flawed logic is something like: Mussolini was a fascist, so Hitler was a fascist too, and Hitler was also a racist, we think the political right are racists, therefore the political right are also fascists.

 



[#] Sun Mar 13 2022 18:38:54 EDT from zelgomer

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2022-03-13 17:16 from ParanoidDelusions <ParanoidDelusions@uncensored.citadel.org>

This is denial. 

There is a LOT of fascism and racism in the far political right, all

across the world. Everyone knows it. The moderate Right would do well


This is what I'm talking about. What qualifies those people as "right wing"? They have no political values common with me.

I've heard the ring theory as well, and it also doesn't sit right with me.


I always viewed the left as collectivism and the right as individualism. If that's how it's defined, then nationalism, racism, and fascism or other forms of authoritarianism are more left than they are right. In the U.S. the Democrats describe themselves as liberals, but they've appropriated this word. You can't be a collectivist without infringing on individual liberties. You can't enforce equality of outcome and claim to be a protector of equality of opportunity.

If this view is incorrect, then collectivism/individualism must be poorly represented by the left-right model, in which case it is deficient and not very helpful in discussion.

And I know I use the term "the left" a lot, even though I've tried to stop that habit because I think it's such a meaningless term.

[#] Tue Mar 15 2022 11:10:53 EDT from darknetuser

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2022-03-13 18:38 from zelgomer
2022-03-13 17:16 from ParanoidDelusions
<ParanoidDelusions@uncensored.citadel.org>

This is denial.

There is a LOT of fascism and racism in the far political right, all



across the world. Everyone knows it. The moderate Right would do well




This is what I'm talking about. What qualifies those people as "right

wing"? They have no political values common with me.

I've heard the ring theory as well, and it also doesn't sit right with

me.


I always viewed the left as collectivism and the right as
individualism. If that's how it's defined, then nationalism,
racism,
and fascism or other forms of authoritarianism are more left than they

are right. In the U.S. the Democrats describe themselves as liberals,

but they've appropriated this word. You can't be a collectivist without

infringing on individual liberties. You can't enforce equality of

outcome and claim to be a protector of equality of opportunity.


If this view is incorrect, then collectivism/individualism must be

poorly represented by the left-right model, in which case it is

deficient and not very helpful in discussion.

And I know I use the term "the left" a lot, even though I've tried to

stop that habit because I think it's such a meaningless term.


I suggest you familiarize yourself with the Nolan cart, according to which political ideologies are easy to classify alongside two axis: the personal freedom axis and the economic freedom axis.

The personal freedom axis defines the views of the political system regarding what people can do with their personal lives. A political system can be anti personal freedom if it attempts to steal your guns away or prevent you from taking the dick you want to take in the ass.

The economic freedom axis defines the view of the system regarding how it lets people manage the economy. It may be anti freedom by enforcing state monopolies, requiring the agreement of the government for Unions to sign deals and such.

If you check the position of communism and fascism in any serious Nolan chart, they are very close to each other.

[#] Tue Mar 15 2022 11:12:11 EDT from darknetuser

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I always viewed the left as collectivism and the right as

Historically, the Right is the political sector that wants things to function as they have always functioned, while the Left wants to do completely different things. That is pretty much the 18th Century definition.

[#] Tue Mar 15 2022 14:39:17 EDT from zelgomer

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2022-03-15 15:12 from darknetuser <darknetuser@uncensored.citadel.org>

I always viewed the left as collectivism and the right as

Historically, the Right is the political sector that wants things to

function as they have always functioned, while the Left wants to do

completely different things. That is pretty much the 18th Century
definition.



Then "the right" is synonymous with conservative and "the left" is synonymous with progressive. In which case, I couldn't consider myself "right-leaning" or conservative because I don't want things to continue to function the way they are.

And thanks for bringing up the Nolan cart, I will look into it. I have seen two dimensional political planes before, and that's kind of what I've been driving at. "Left" and "right" only potentially describe a single axis, and I don't think everyone is even on the same page about what axis we're talking about.

[#] Tue Mar 15 2022 15:28:44 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

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Right doesn't want to alienate white nationalists. 

Yeah, those 600 or so votes are critical to national elections.

(By the way ... wanting to beat Whoopi Goldberg into a bloody pulp with a crowbar doesn't make you a white nationalist; it only makes you a good person who loves humanity.)

[#] Sun Mar 20 2022 03:35:45 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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Made it this far before my carriage turned back into a pumpkin. I've got an F1 event to attend tomorrow, early - so... I gotta get to bed. I'll skip this room tonight and come back to it when I get a chance. 

I do have some thoughts though... 

I think that political philosophies of right and left are muddy and imprecise - and VARIED - but we all know what is MEANT when we say Far Right or Far Left, "conservative" or "liberal"... 

And so I am quickly dismissive of people who repeat the MAJORITY of talking points of one political spectrum or the other, and then take OFFENSE when someone else calls them... well, usually it is LIBERALS, progressives and collectivists/communists who DENY that is what they are - but I've seen a fair share of Republicans/Conservatives/and Fascists take offense at being labeled RIGHT wing. 

Often those people who INSIST they're not party-line Left or Right would *never* vote for the candidate they CONSIDER themselves opposed to - and tend to call themselves "Libertarian" to the point where Libertarians are increasingly divided and polarized among themselves along spectrums of Left and Right ideology. 

If you mostly talk like a duck, mostly walk like a duck, mostly swim like a duck, and have webbed feet - and you take offense when I call you a duck and insist you're an alligator... 

I think you've got a pretty muddy self-image of yourself. 




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