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[#] Tue Nov 24 2020 02:03:58 EST from jtbreazeoutlook.com

Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

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Great, thanks for the quick reply. I'm liking Ubuntu for the server OS, with the more current repositories, so I'll definitely be staying away from OpenSuse. I'll be keeping an eye on future updates, so I can switch back to the pi, though, it was working great otherwise, there aren't enough users with enough demand to overtax the 4 B, I was sitting at just over 1gb of ram use, and 10% cpu. I'm sold on Citadel, for sure. 

Tue Nov 24 2020 01:49:23 AM EST from warbaby @ Uncensored Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

> Would I be better off getting off the Pi and onto an x86-based server to host Citadel on?

Absolutely. Without a doubt. Not sure what the Pi issue is, I'm having someone ship some hardware.  We'll get to the bottom of it eventually..

But why wait?  CItadel works great and is rock stable, not needing to be fussed with for years at a time.

A working mail server is worth throwing some hardware at.  The Raspberry Pi is really more of a novelty.

You've proven you can do it, now put together a real box, with some decent hardware.

The only distro i'd avoid is OpenSuse, there are some issues with the default shell that make installation a hassle.

But other than that, you can probably get easyinstall to run on anything.  

Debian 10 is a safe and sane choice.  Grab the iso with non-free if you have proprietary network interfaces.

 



 



[#] Tue Nov 24 2020 07:44:55 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

 

Tue Nov 24 2020 02:03:58 ESTfrom jtbreazeoutlook.com @ Uncensored Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

Great, thanks for the quick reply. I'm liking Ubuntu for the server OS, with the more current repositories, so I'll definitely be staying away from OpenSuse. I'll be keeping an eye on future updates, so I can switch back to the pi, though, it was working great otherwise, there aren't enough users with enough demand to overtax the 4 B, I was sitting at just over 1gb of ram use, and 10% cpu. I'm sold on Citadel, for sure.

 


I'm running a Citadel at https://secure.wallofhate.com on a Pi 3B+ with Raspbian. It is a public BBS with Internet mail disabled. It runs fine for most of these purposes. 

I haven't had a chance to try the suggestions above on a new install to see if I can address the issues I see with attachments in messages getting corrupted. nor do I know if the issues I am seeing are related to your issues with attachment corruption - but it sure seems like there is something similar going on. I'm not completely concerned with file attachment corruption - as my goal is more to have a bulletin board for communication and discussion as an alternative social media destination. But, as soon as I get done with my current batch of projects - I intend to give it a try. 

Like you, the form factor of the Pi is ideal, and I have considered just throwing up a "real" non-Arm Linux distro on one of the mini-ATX form factor small PCs I have lying around doing nothing. It seems like if the Pi can handle it, even a Centrino or Atom based machine should be able to handle Citadel. That led me to consider a NUC, but a NUC is going to run me around $200 for the low end - and I'm not really sure that the low end outperforms a Pi 4B, at this point... that decision quickly became a series of trade offs I wasn't ecstatic about. The space I have for the BBS to live requires something Pi or NUC sized to live there, and I can't easily relocate it all because of the way my Host ISP provides a static IP address. 

But if you have a spare Intel system, like I do... nothing prevents you from building out Citadel on a IA Linux and seeing if that fixes the problems - and if it does, then you know it is something specific to the Pi architecture or the Pi Linux - and you can consider buying a NUC if small footprint is critical to you. For me, if it comes down to my users not being able to download files or add attachments or dropping $200+ for a NUC - they can live with the deficiencies of a Pi for this. 

I mean, ideally we would figure out what the problem is on the Pi - but - building an Intel system might be the best first step. If it happens *there*, it seems to be some kind of operator error. If it doesn't... it is on the Pi architecture or Distro. 



[#] Tue Nov 24 2020 07:47:42 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

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You can feel free to log into my BBS and use the mail subsystem to attach documents and see if they corrupt. If you do, try posting a public message with an attachment to see if that works, too, and you might as well upload a file in a directory room too. 

If you can recreate the same issue on my BBS as on yours - maybe opening a bug report with your distro could help too. It would provide evidence it is the distro or the Pi, not Citadel. 



[#] Tue Nov 24 2020 12:04:34 EST from warbaby

Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

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> I'm liking Ubuntu for the server OS, with the more current repositories

See the recent message thread: "Error with easyinstaller build on Ubuntu 20.10 with fresh install"

Greybeard system administrator here.  Latest/greatest is not always an advantage. Not if you value your time. Stay in the middle of the road, and compile or upgrade packages as needed with a ppa.

A mail server admin should think conservatively.  Ubuntu is guided by a commercial company that likes to chase rainbows. That ain't a good match.  Fun if you are messing around on the desktop, but not what anybody wants in a server OS. They continually make short-sighted decisions that break things..

Most intelligent people I know unhitched from that wagon long ago.  Experienced dev-ops people left Ubuntu Server about a decade ago, because Canonical doesn't listen, and can't control themselves from jacking around with the Server packages.   This is why you can install what should be a small, simple, stand-alone utility, and end up with 50 new packages + Apache2 as a dependency.

They constantly cause problems like the one in the email thread above.

Tue Nov 24 2020 07:44:55 AM EST from ParanoidDelusions @ Uncensored Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

 

Tue Nov 24 2020 02:03:58 ESTfrom jtbreazeoutlook.com @ Uncensored Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

Great, thanks for the quick reply. I'm liking Ubuntu for the server OS, with the more current repositories, so I'll definitely be staying away from OpenSuse. I'll be keeping an eye on future updates, so I can switch back to the pi, though, it was working great otherwise, there aren't enough users with enough demand to overtax the 4 B, I was sitting at just over 1gb of ram use, and 10% cpu. I'm sold on Citadel, for sure.

 


I'm running a Citadel at https://secure.wallofhate.com on a Pi 3B+ with Raspbian. It is a public BBS with Internet mail disabled. It runs fine for most of these purposes. 

I haven't had a chance to try the suggestions above on a new install to see if I can address the issues I see with attachments in messages getting corrupted. nor do I know if the issues I am seeing are related to your issues with attachment corruption - but it sure seems like there is something similar going on. I'm not completely concerned with file attachment corruption - as my goal is more to have a bulletin board for communication and discussion as an alternative social media destination. But, as soon as I get done with my current batch of projects - I intend to give it a try. 

Like you, the form factor of the Pi is ideal, and I have considered just throwing up a "real" non-Arm Linux distro on one of the mini-ATX form factor small PCs I have lying around doing nothing. It seems like if the Pi can handle it, even a Centrino or Atom based machine should be able to handle Citadel. That led me to consider a NUC, but a NUC is going to run me around $200 for the low end - and I'm not really sure that the low end outperforms a Pi 4B, at this point... that decision quickly became a series of trade offs I wasn't ecstatic about. The space I have for the BBS to live requires something Pi or NUC sized to live there, and I can't easily relocate it all because of the way my Host ISP provides a static IP address. 

But if you have a spare Intel system, like I do... nothing prevents you from building out Citadel on a IA Linux and seeing if that fixes the problems - and if it does, then you know it is something specific to the Pi architecture or the Pi Linux - and you can consider buying a NUC if small footprint is critical to you. For me, if it comes down to my users not being able to download files or add attachments or dropping $200+ for a NUC - they can live with the deficiencies of a Pi for this. 

I mean, ideally we would figure out what the problem is on the Pi - but - building an Intel system might be the best first step. If it happens *there*, it seems to be some kind of operator error. If it doesn't... it is on the Pi architecture or Distro. 



 



[#] Tue Nov 24 2020 16:06:58 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

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My feeling is the Debian variants remain popular because of apt-get debian packages and the simplicity of installing software on those systems. Every time I try other platforms, installing packages on them sends me running back to a Debian based Linux. 

Ubuntu is definitely aimed toward desktop users, though. 

Tue Nov 24 2020 12:04:34 EST from warbaby @ Uncensored Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

> I'm liking Ubuntu for the server OS, with the more current repositories

See the recent message thread: "Error with easyinstaller build on Ubuntu 20.10 with fresh install"

Greybeard system administrator here.  Latest/greatest is not always an advantage. Not if you value your time. Stay in the middle of the road, and compile or upgrade packages as needed with a ppa.

A mail server admin should think conservatively.  Ubuntu is guided by a commercial company that likes to chase rainbows. That ain't a good match.  Fun if you are messing around on the desktop, but not what anybody wants in a server OS. They continually make short-sighted decisions that break things..

Most intelligent people I know unhitched from that wagon long ago.  Experienced dev-ops people left Ubuntu Server about a decade ago, because Canonical doesn't listen, and can't control themselves from jacking around with the Server packages.   This is why you can install what should be a small, simple, stand-alone utility, and end up with 50 new packages + Apache2 as a dependency.

They constantly cause problems like the one in the email thread above.




[#] Tue Nov 24 2020 23:10:16 EST from hamiltra

Subject: Re: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

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If you‘re using the easyinstaller, change the base url from http:// => https:// and all should work

Sun Nov 22 2020 16:48:58 EST from sanlybowits @ Uncensored Subject: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

I was sorry to see that "curl"ing the build/install script from the "easyinstall" page results in "301 Moved Permanently"

I expect that might be around the many broken links from new hosting that I read about on 'uncensored' recently.  But, if there is a functional link, I'd like to know so I can try that.  Additionally, the link to the hosted version control is broken too with a 404 Not Found.  I'll see if I can't assemble a working system from the other code links that are working.

Can someone conjure up links to installer scripts and/or repository, please?



 



[#] Wed Nov 25 2020 03:22:01 EST from warbaby

Subject: Re: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

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This is actually a documentation issue.

Since like most sites nowadays are redirecting the http port 80 requests to https/443 .. we need to add -L or --location to the curl request. 

It should be 

curl -L http://easyinstall.citadel.org/install | bash

Although at this stage of Earth's history, I will probably move the wget line to the top instead of the curl one. [It's more likely to be installed than curl nowadays.]


Tue Nov 24 2020 11:10:16 PM EST from hamiltra @ Uncensored Subject: Re: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

If you‘re using the easyinstaller, change the base url from http:// => https:// and all should work

Sun Nov 22 2020 16:48:58 EST from sanlybowits @ Uncensored Subject: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

I was sorry to see that "curl"ing the build/install script from the "easyinstall" page results in "301 Moved Permanently"

I expect that might be around the many broken links from new hosting that I read about on 'uncensored' recently.  But, if there is a functional link, I'd like to know so I can try that.  Additionally, the link to the hosted version control is broken too with a 404 Not Found.  I'll see if I can't assemble a working system from the other code links that are working.

Can someone conjure up links to installer scripts and/or repository, please?



 



 



[#] Wed Nov 25 2020 03:43:34 EST from warbaby

Subject: Re: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

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On later reflection, obviously it should be just changed to https, duh. [It's early.]

But, technically I was not wrong. :)

Wed Nov 25 2020 03:22:01 AM EST from warbaby @ Uncensored Subject: Re: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

This is actually a documentation issue.

Since like most sites nowadays are redirecting the http port 80 requests to https/443 .. we need to add -L or --location to the curl request. 

It should be 

curl -L http://easyinstall.citadel.org/install | bash

Although at this stage of Earth's history, I will probably move the wget line to the top instead of the curl one. [It's more likely to be installed than curl nowadays.]


Tue Nov 24 2020 11:10:16 PM EST from hamiltra @ Uncensored Subject: Re: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

If you‘re using the easyinstaller, change the base url from http:// => https:// and all should work

Sun Nov 22 2020 16:48:58 EST from sanlybowits @ Uncensored Subject: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

I was sorry to see that "curl"ing the build/install script from the "easyinstall" page results in "301 Moved Permanently"

I expect that might be around the many broken links from new hosting that I read about on 'uncensored' recently.  But, if there is a functional link, I'd like to know so I can try that.  Additionally, the link to the hosted version control is broken too with a 404 Not Found.  I'll see if I can't assemble a working system from the other code links that are working.

Can someone conjure up links to installer scripts and/or repository, please?



 



 



 



[#] Wed Nov 25 2020 08:17:37 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Any one have ideas on how to migrate Citadel from a Pi 3B running Raspbian to an i5 running Debian? 




[#] Wed Nov 25 2020 08:57:09 EST from hamiltra

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I'm not an admin but my experience went pretty well migrating from RPi4 => Ubuntu 20.10. The process is really simple but make sure that your perms are 'right' on the source. The process to do this for me (easyinstall) was /usr/local/citadel/ctdlmigrate which walks you through the process of migrating from source to target. This tool asks a series of questions before using ssh and rsync to migrate from source to target. Generally, I believe the expectation is for root to be used on both machines where Citadel is running in both places. The migration for the DB tables went smoothly but my rsync failed. I just tarred the remaining directories and manually moved them. I'm sure the admins have a more insight. It might be advisable for both source and target to be of same version

 

Wed Nov 25 2020 08:17:37 EST from ParanoidDelusions @ Uncensored

Any one have ideas on how to migrate Citadel from a Pi 3B running Raspbian to an i5 running Debian? 




 



[#] Wed Nov 25 2020 11:39:53 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Wed Nov 25 2020 08:57:09 EST from hamiltra @ Uncensored

I'm not an admin but my experience went pretty well migrating from RPi4 => Ubuntu 20.10. The process is really simple but make sure that your perms are 'right' on the source. The process to do this for me (easyinstall) was /usr/local/citadel/ctdlmigrate which walks you through the process of migrating from source to target. This tool asks a series of questions before using ssh and rsync to migrate from source to target. Generally, I believe the expectation is for root to be used on both machines where Citadel is running in both places. The migration for the DB tables went smoothly but my rsync failed. I just tarred the remaining directories and manually moved them. I'm sure the admins have a more insight. It might be advisable for both source and target to be of same version

 

Wed Nov 25 2020 08:17:37 EST from ParanoidDelusions @ Uncensored

Any one have ideas on how to migrate Citadel from a Pi 3B running Raspbian to an i5 running Debian? 




 



This is awesome, actually. Way more than I was hoping for. I'm assuming you do easyinstall on the new machine, then do the ctdlmigrate from the source machine? 

Is this described in the online documentation? I just didn't know where to start looking. 

 



[#] Wed Nov 25 2020 12:51:37 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Another "feature request" kind of post... 

It would be cool if there was a way to flag a message, bookmark it, save it for later - so that you could have a list you could click on that would take you back to that message. 

Right now I just "skip" the room so the pointer doesn't update - but that kind of creates a backlog as new messages come in. 

 

 



[#] Wed Nov 25 2020 14:02:17 EST from hamiltra

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Yes, it’s in the docs: https://www.citadel.org/system_administration_manual.html Under Import / Export of Citadel. Hope that helps.

 

Wed Nov 25 2020 11:39:53 EST from ParanoidDelusions @ Uncensored

 

Wed Nov 25 2020 08:57:09 EST from hamiltra @ Uncensored

I'm not an admin but my experience went pretty well migrating from RPi4 => Ubuntu 20.10. The process is really simple but make sure that your perms are 'right' on the source. The process to do this for me (easyinstall) was /usr/local/citadel/ctdlmigrate which walks you through the process of migrating from source to target. This tool asks a series of questions before using ssh and rsync to migrate from source to target. Generally, I believe the expectation is for root to be used on both machines where Citadel is running in both places. The migration for the DB tables went smoothly but my rsync failed. I just tarred the remaining directories and manually moved them. I'm sure the admins have a more insight. It might be advisable for both source and target to be of same version

 

Wed Nov 25 2020 08:17:37 EST from ParanoidDelusions @ Uncensored

Any one have ideas on how to migrate Citadel from a Pi 3B running Raspbian to an i5 running Debian? 




 



This is awesome, actually. Way more than I was hoping for. I'm assuming you do easyinstall on the new machine, then do the ctdlmigrate from the source machine? 

Is this described in the online documentation? I just didn't know where to start looking. 

 



 



[#] Thu Nov 26 2020 09:38:35 EST from wesleyallison

Subject: additional set up?

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Is there any additional setup that I need to do to get it to work I used easy install and port forward all the ports

I have a No-IP.com domain



[#] Thu Nov 26 2020 10:07:07 EST from warbaby

Subject: Re: additional set up?

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You've told us basically nothing.

Any error messages in the console log on startup?

try (as root)

grep citadel /var/log/syslog

or

grep citserver /var/log/syslog

 

Thu Nov 26 2020 09:38:35 AM EST from wesleyallison @ Uncensored Subject: additional set up?

Is there any additional setup that I need to do to get it to work I used easy install and port forward all the ports

I have a No-IP.com domain



 



[#] Thu Nov 26 2020 10:48:09 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: additional set up?

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Can you connect locally? 

Thu Nov 26 2020 09:38:35 EST from wesleyallison @ Uncensored Subject: additional set up?

Is there any additional setup that I need to do to get it to work I used easy install and port forward all the ports

I have a No-IP.com domain



 



[#] Thu Nov 26 2020 15:52:16 EST from omatnet

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Here is another option for you, using the "MIGR" parameter of sendcommand:

On the Pi3B do:

sudo /usr/local/citadel/sendcommand -w900 "MIGR export" > ~/CitBackup.xml

Then transfer the xml file to the i5 and there do

sudo /usr/local/citadel/sendcommand -w900 "MIGR import" < ~/CitBackup.xml

The reason for the -w900 is to give the operation enough time (900 seconds = 15 min) to complete, otherwise sendcommand will terminate with its 60s timeout default.

 

If you use ctdlmigrate - it works well, just remember that on the Pi3B you need to allow SSH connection and to permit SSH root user incoming connection. So make sure that a remote root login password is set using 'sudo passwd' (to allow remote root SSH connection you edit /etc/ssh/sshd_config  and make sure that the parameter "PermitRootLogin" is set to "yes"). When done, for security and safety, restore sshd_config to the way it was.

 

 

Wed Nov 25 2020 08:17:37 EST from ParanoidDelusions @ Uncensored

Any one have ideas on how to migrate Citadel from a Pi 3B running Raspbian to an i5 running Debian? 




 



[#] Fri Nov 27 2020 16:55:41 EST from guesty2k

Subject: Re: STARTTLS

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Does anyone know how to resolve this? 

when connecting to port 25, it does not advertise 250-STARTTLS

 

 



[#] Sat Nov 28 2020 10:09:07 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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The upgrade process isn't totally clear to me: 


Upgrading

Any existing Citadel installation may be upgraded in place without the need to discard your existing data files.

Upgrading to a new version uses the same build procedure as compiling the program for a fresh install, except that you want to do "make upgrade" instead of "make install". This will overwrite the programs but not your data. Be sure to shut down citserver during this process! If Citadel is running while you upgrade, you may face data corruption issues.

After doing make upgrade, you should run setup again to bring your data files up to date. Please see the setup section below for more information on this.


Especially if the Easy-Install was used. 

Easy Install will automatically initialize. Please note that we said "easy," not "fast." It will compile a lot of code and is therefore quite time consuming. In the future we plan to add Docker containers to make it install faster.

So, what's it going to do? When you begin Easy Install, the following things are going to happen:

  • If your Linux distribution is identified, Easy Install will offer to try installing some of the dependencies.
  • Citadel Server, the WebCit front end, the text mode client, and some of the supporting libraries such as Berkeley DB will be downloaded from the Easy Install web site.
  • All packages will be compiled and installed. This will take a long time. Citadel will be installed to /usr/local/citadel, WebCit will be installed to /usr/local/webcit, and the supporting libraries will be installed to /usr/local/ctdlsupport.
  • The setup program will initialize, and you will be asked a few questions about how you want the software configured. You will be offered the opportunity to disable any email and groupware software already installed on your system, and you will be offered the opportunity to have the Citadel services automatically initialized on startup.
  • WebCit will be similarly configured. If you are not running some other web server (such as Nginx or Apache), you can run WebCit on port 80; otherwise, pick some other port.

Which implies that everything runs automatically. 

For an upgrade, do I need to download and install from the latest source, compiling with "make upgrade"? Or can I run the Easy-Install over the top of my currently running installation of Citadel?



The Sanitarium is running Citadel 925 with WebCit 925, server build 925

 




[#] Sat Nov 28 2020 12:15:09 EST from SquareRootSquared

Subject: Chat/Instant Messenger send/receive Delay

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I am measuring a 1 to 8 second delay between when a line of text is sent and when it is displayed on the client side instant messenger or similarly on the room's chat viewer screen. Is this delay normal operation and is there any way to decrease this delay?



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