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[#] Mon Nov 23 2020 17:11:36 EST from palloy

Subject: Re: install not working

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OK, that's what I got too on ubuntu-20.04.

So with the easy-installer not working on Ubuntu-20.04 and -20.10, and the Ubuntu repository version not working on -20.04 and -20.20, how do you expect Ubuntu users to install Citadel ?

How come nobody can answer my question in 2 days ?



[#] Mon Nov 23 2020 23:38:01 EST from hamiltra

Subject: Re: install not working

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Two changes are needed to get this going:

in webcit: context_loop.c:

Comment out the line around line 28:

/* hamiltra */
//pthread_key_t MyConKey;         /* TSD key for MySession() */                                                                                    

The second change that I needed to do is in citadel sources:

on or near line 27, add estern...

extern pthread_key_t ThreadKey;

I believe that the source of the issue may be because Ubuntu is using newer gcc and/or make.

Citadel is built now and now can proceed with my testing...

Mon Nov 23 2020 17:11:36 EST from palloy @ Uncensored Subject: Re: install not working

OK, that's what I got too on ubuntu-20.04.

So with the easy-installer not working on Ubuntu-20.04 and -20.10, and the Ubuntu repository version not working on -20.04 and -20.20, how do you expect Ubuntu users to install Citadel ?

How come nobody can answer my question in 2 days ?



 



[#] Tue Nov 24 2020 00:32:57 EST from jtbreazeoutlook.com

Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

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I finally am getting the hang of the sendcommand, and now believe the locale is correct. However, I'm still having corrupt attachment issues and it's getting frustrating. I found the citadel.rc file, but does that only pertain to the package install, or something? Because it has a value in it for allow_attachments=0, which would disable attachments, but, I changed it to 1, and it didn't change anything, even when I rebooted, AND ran the easyinstall again.

Would I be better off getting off the Pi and onto an x86-based server to host Citadel on? I have a few slying around, it's just big, and I wanted the Pi form factor, but at this point I'll take functioning attachments over space. Is the attachment corruption thing that I and a few other Pi users have noted only happening on Pi's?

Just looking for a solution here asap.

Sat Nov 21 2020 04:54:33 PM EST from jtbreazeoutlook.com @ Uncensored Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

So, if those locale files were only for the package install, and not easyinstall, how to I check that the easyinstall is using the correct locale? I re-ran the install after ensuring that my Ubuntu install was on the correct install using UTF-8, en_US, but incomming attachments are still corrupting, seemingly to an ISO locale, I can't remember the numbers now, but I can get them if it would help.



 



[#] Tue Nov 24 2020 01:49:23 EST from warbaby

Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

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> Would I be better off getting off the Pi and onto an x86-based server to host Citadel on?

Absolutely. Without a doubt. Not sure what the Pi issue is, I'm having someone ship some hardware.  We'll get to the bottom of it eventually..

But why wait?  CItadel works great and is rock stable, not needing to be fussed with for years at a time.

A working mail server is worth throwing some hardware at.  The Raspberry Pi is really more of a novelty.

You've proven you can do it, now put together a real box, with some decent hardware.

The only distro i'd avoid is OpenSuse, there are some issues with the default shell that make installation a hassle.

But other than that, you can probably get easyinstall to run on anything.  

Debian 10 is a safe and sane choice.  Grab the iso with non-free if you have proprietary network interfaces.

 



[#] Tue Nov 24 2020 02:03:58 EST from jtbreazeoutlook.com

Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

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Great, thanks for the quick reply. I'm liking Ubuntu for the server OS, with the more current repositories, so I'll definitely be staying away from OpenSuse. I'll be keeping an eye on future updates, so I can switch back to the pi, though, it was working great otherwise, there aren't enough users with enough demand to overtax the 4 B, I was sitting at just over 1gb of ram use, and 10% cpu. I'm sold on Citadel, for sure. 

Tue Nov 24 2020 01:49:23 AM EST from warbaby @ Uncensored Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

> Would I be better off getting off the Pi and onto an x86-based server to host Citadel on?

Absolutely. Without a doubt. Not sure what the Pi issue is, I'm having someone ship some hardware.  We'll get to the bottom of it eventually..

But why wait?  CItadel works great and is rock stable, not needing to be fussed with for years at a time.

A working mail server is worth throwing some hardware at.  The Raspberry Pi is really more of a novelty.

You've proven you can do it, now put together a real box, with some decent hardware.

The only distro i'd avoid is OpenSuse, there are some issues with the default shell that make installation a hassle.

But other than that, you can probably get easyinstall to run on anything.  

Debian 10 is a safe and sane choice.  Grab the iso with non-free if you have proprietary network interfaces.

 



 



[#] Tue Nov 24 2020 07:44:55 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

 

Tue Nov 24 2020 02:03:58 ESTfrom jtbreazeoutlook.com @ Uncensored Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

Great, thanks for the quick reply. I'm liking Ubuntu for the server OS, with the more current repositories, so I'll definitely be staying away from OpenSuse. I'll be keeping an eye on future updates, so I can switch back to the pi, though, it was working great otherwise, there aren't enough users with enough demand to overtax the 4 B, I was sitting at just over 1gb of ram use, and 10% cpu. I'm sold on Citadel, for sure.

 


I'm running a Citadel at https://secure.wallofhate.com on a Pi 3B+ with Raspbian. It is a public BBS with Internet mail disabled. It runs fine for most of these purposes. 

I haven't had a chance to try the suggestions above on a new install to see if I can address the issues I see with attachments in messages getting corrupted. nor do I know if the issues I am seeing are related to your issues with attachment corruption - but it sure seems like there is something similar going on. I'm not completely concerned with file attachment corruption - as my goal is more to have a bulletin board for communication and discussion as an alternative social media destination. But, as soon as I get done with my current batch of projects - I intend to give it a try. 

Like you, the form factor of the Pi is ideal, and I have considered just throwing up a "real" non-Arm Linux distro on one of the mini-ATX form factor small PCs I have lying around doing nothing. It seems like if the Pi can handle it, even a Centrino or Atom based machine should be able to handle Citadel. That led me to consider a NUC, but a NUC is going to run me around $200 for the low end - and I'm not really sure that the low end outperforms a Pi 4B, at this point... that decision quickly became a series of trade offs I wasn't ecstatic about. The space I have for the BBS to live requires something Pi or NUC sized to live there, and I can't easily relocate it all because of the way my Host ISP provides a static IP address. 

But if you have a spare Intel system, like I do... nothing prevents you from building out Citadel on a IA Linux and seeing if that fixes the problems - and if it does, then you know it is something specific to the Pi architecture or the Pi Linux - and you can consider buying a NUC if small footprint is critical to you. For me, if it comes down to my users not being able to download files or add attachments or dropping $200+ for a NUC - they can live with the deficiencies of a Pi for this. 

I mean, ideally we would figure out what the problem is on the Pi - but - building an Intel system might be the best first step. If it happens *there*, it seems to be some kind of operator error. If it doesn't... it is on the Pi architecture or Distro. 



[#] Tue Nov 24 2020 07:47:42 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

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You can feel free to log into my BBS and use the mail subsystem to attach documents and see if they corrupt. If you do, try posting a public message with an attachment to see if that works, too, and you might as well upload a file in a directory room too. 

If you can recreate the same issue on my BBS as on yours - maybe opening a bug report with your distro could help too. It would provide evidence it is the distro or the Pi, not Citadel. 



[#] Tue Nov 24 2020 12:04:34 EST from warbaby

Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

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> I'm liking Ubuntu for the server OS, with the more current repositories

See the recent message thread: "Error with easyinstaller build on Ubuntu 20.10 with fresh install"

Greybeard system administrator here.  Latest/greatest is not always an advantage. Not if you value your time. Stay in the middle of the road, and compile or upgrade packages as needed with a ppa.

A mail server admin should think conservatively.  Ubuntu is guided by a commercial company that likes to chase rainbows. That ain't a good match.  Fun if you are messing around on the desktop, but not what anybody wants in a server OS. They continually make short-sighted decisions that break things..

Most intelligent people I know unhitched from that wagon long ago.  Experienced dev-ops people left Ubuntu Server about a decade ago, because Canonical doesn't listen, and can't control themselves from jacking around with the Server packages.   This is why you can install what should be a small, simple, stand-alone utility, and end up with 50 new packages + Apache2 as a dependency.

They constantly cause problems like the one in the email thread above.

Tue Nov 24 2020 07:44:55 AM EST from ParanoidDelusions @ Uncensored Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

 

Tue Nov 24 2020 02:03:58 ESTfrom jtbreazeoutlook.com @ Uncensored Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

Great, thanks for the quick reply. I'm liking Ubuntu for the server OS, with the more current repositories, so I'll definitely be staying away from OpenSuse. I'll be keeping an eye on future updates, so I can switch back to the pi, though, it was working great otherwise, there aren't enough users with enough demand to overtax the 4 B, I was sitting at just over 1gb of ram use, and 10% cpu. I'm sold on Citadel, for sure.

 


I'm running a Citadel at https://secure.wallofhate.com on a Pi 3B+ with Raspbian. It is a public BBS with Internet mail disabled. It runs fine for most of these purposes. 

I haven't had a chance to try the suggestions above on a new install to see if I can address the issues I see with attachments in messages getting corrupted. nor do I know if the issues I am seeing are related to your issues with attachment corruption - but it sure seems like there is something similar going on. I'm not completely concerned with file attachment corruption - as my goal is more to have a bulletin board for communication and discussion as an alternative social media destination. But, as soon as I get done with my current batch of projects - I intend to give it a try. 

Like you, the form factor of the Pi is ideal, and I have considered just throwing up a "real" non-Arm Linux distro on one of the mini-ATX form factor small PCs I have lying around doing nothing. It seems like if the Pi can handle it, even a Centrino or Atom based machine should be able to handle Citadel. That led me to consider a NUC, but a NUC is going to run me around $200 for the low end - and I'm not really sure that the low end outperforms a Pi 4B, at this point... that decision quickly became a series of trade offs I wasn't ecstatic about. The space I have for the BBS to live requires something Pi or NUC sized to live there, and I can't easily relocate it all because of the way my Host ISP provides a static IP address. 

But if you have a spare Intel system, like I do... nothing prevents you from building out Citadel on a IA Linux and seeing if that fixes the problems - and if it does, then you know it is something specific to the Pi architecture or the Pi Linux - and you can consider buying a NUC if small footprint is critical to you. For me, if it comes down to my users not being able to download files or add attachments or dropping $200+ for a NUC - they can live with the deficiencies of a Pi for this. 

I mean, ideally we would figure out what the problem is on the Pi - but - building an Intel system might be the best first step. If it happens *there*, it seems to be some kind of operator error. If it doesn't... it is on the Pi architecture or Distro. 



 



[#] Tue Nov 24 2020 16:06:58 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

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My feeling is the Debian variants remain popular because of apt-get debian packages and the simplicity of installing software on those systems. Every time I try other platforms, installing packages on them sends me running back to a Debian based Linux. 

Ubuntu is definitely aimed toward desktop users, though. 

Tue Nov 24 2020 12:04:34 EST from warbaby @ Uncensored Subject: Re: Corrupted attachments

> I'm liking Ubuntu for the server OS, with the more current repositories

See the recent message thread: "Error with easyinstaller build on Ubuntu 20.10 with fresh install"

Greybeard system administrator here.  Latest/greatest is not always an advantage. Not if you value your time. Stay in the middle of the road, and compile or upgrade packages as needed with a ppa.

A mail server admin should think conservatively.  Ubuntu is guided by a commercial company that likes to chase rainbows. That ain't a good match.  Fun if you are messing around on the desktop, but not what anybody wants in a server OS. They continually make short-sighted decisions that break things..

Most intelligent people I know unhitched from that wagon long ago.  Experienced dev-ops people left Ubuntu Server about a decade ago, because Canonical doesn't listen, and can't control themselves from jacking around with the Server packages.   This is why you can install what should be a small, simple, stand-alone utility, and end up with 50 new packages + Apache2 as a dependency.

They constantly cause problems like the one in the email thread above.




[#] Tue Nov 24 2020 23:10:16 EST from hamiltra

Subject: Re: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

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If you‘re using the easyinstaller, change the base url from http:// => https:// and all should work

Sun Nov 22 2020 16:48:58 EST from sanlybowits @ Uncensored Subject: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

I was sorry to see that "curl"ing the build/install script from the "easyinstall" page results in "301 Moved Permanently"

I expect that might be around the many broken links from new hosting that I read about on 'uncensored' recently.  But, if there is a functional link, I'd like to know so I can try that.  Additionally, the link to the hosted version control is broken too with a 404 Not Found.  I'll see if I can't assemble a working system from the other code links that are working.

Can someone conjure up links to installer scripts and/or repository, please?



 



[#] Wed Nov 25 2020 03:22:01 EST from warbaby

Subject: Re: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

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This is actually a documentation issue.

Since like most sites nowadays are redirecting the http port 80 requests to https/443 .. we need to add -L or --location to the curl request. 

It should be 

curl -L http://easyinstall.citadel.org/install | bash

Although at this stage of Earth's history, I will probably move the wget line to the top instead of the curl one. [It's more likely to be installed than curl nowadays.]


Tue Nov 24 2020 11:10:16 PM EST from hamiltra @ Uncensored Subject: Re: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

If you‘re using the easyinstaller, change the base url from http:// => https:// and all should work

Sun Nov 22 2020 16:48:58 EST from sanlybowits @ Uncensored Subject: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

I was sorry to see that "curl"ing the build/install script from the "easyinstall" page results in "301 Moved Permanently"

I expect that might be around the many broken links from new hosting that I read about on 'uncensored' recently.  But, if there is a functional link, I'd like to know so I can try that.  Additionally, the link to the hosted version control is broken too with a 404 Not Found.  I'll see if I can't assemble a working system from the other code links that are working.

Can someone conjure up links to installer scripts and/or repository, please?



 



 



[#] Wed Nov 25 2020 03:43:34 EST from warbaby

Subject: Re: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

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On later reflection, obviously it should be just changed to https, duh. [It's early.]

But, technically I was not wrong. :)

Wed Nov 25 2020 03:22:01 AM EST from warbaby @ Uncensored Subject: Re: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

This is actually a documentation issue.

Since like most sites nowadays are redirecting the http port 80 requests to https/443 .. we need to add -L or --location to the curl request. 

It should be 

curl -L http://easyinstall.citadel.org/install | bash

Although at this stage of Earth's history, I will probably move the wget line to the top instead of the curl one. [It's more likely to be installed than curl nowadays.]


Tue Nov 24 2020 11:10:16 PM EST from hamiltra @ Uncensored Subject: Re: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

If you‘re using the easyinstaller, change the base url from http:// => https:// and all should work

Sun Nov 22 2020 16:48:58 EST from sanlybowits @ Uncensored Subject: easyinstall .... "301 Moved Permanently"

I was sorry to see that "curl"ing the build/install script from the "easyinstall" page results in "301 Moved Permanently"

I expect that might be around the many broken links from new hosting that I read about on 'uncensored' recently.  But, if there is a functional link, I'd like to know so I can try that.  Additionally, the link to the hosted version control is broken too with a 404 Not Found.  I'll see if I can't assemble a working system from the other code links that are working.

Can someone conjure up links to installer scripts and/or repository, please?



 



 



 



[#] Wed Nov 25 2020 08:17:37 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Any one have ideas on how to migrate Citadel from a Pi 3B running Raspbian to an i5 running Debian? 




[#] Wed Nov 25 2020 08:57:09 EST from hamiltra

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I'm not an admin but my experience went pretty well migrating from RPi4 => Ubuntu 20.10. The process is really simple but make sure that your perms are 'right' on the source. The process to do this for me (easyinstall) was /usr/local/citadel/ctdlmigrate which walks you through the process of migrating from source to target. This tool asks a series of questions before using ssh and rsync to migrate from source to target. Generally, I believe the expectation is for root to be used on both machines where Citadel is running in both places. The migration for the DB tables went smoothly but my rsync failed. I just tarred the remaining directories and manually moved them. I'm sure the admins have a more insight. It might be advisable for both source and target to be of same version

 

Wed Nov 25 2020 08:17:37 EST from ParanoidDelusions @ Uncensored

Any one have ideas on how to migrate Citadel from a Pi 3B running Raspbian to an i5 running Debian? 




 



[#] Wed Nov 25 2020 11:39:53 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Wed Nov 25 2020 08:57:09 EST from hamiltra @ Uncensored

I'm not an admin but my experience went pretty well migrating from RPi4 => Ubuntu 20.10. The process is really simple but make sure that your perms are 'right' on the source. The process to do this for me (easyinstall) was /usr/local/citadel/ctdlmigrate which walks you through the process of migrating from source to target. This tool asks a series of questions before using ssh and rsync to migrate from source to target. Generally, I believe the expectation is for root to be used on both machines where Citadel is running in both places. The migration for the DB tables went smoothly but my rsync failed. I just tarred the remaining directories and manually moved them. I'm sure the admins have a more insight. It might be advisable for both source and target to be of same version

 

Wed Nov 25 2020 08:17:37 EST from ParanoidDelusions @ Uncensored

Any one have ideas on how to migrate Citadel from a Pi 3B running Raspbian to an i5 running Debian? 




 



This is awesome, actually. Way more than I was hoping for. I'm assuming you do easyinstall on the new machine, then do the ctdlmigrate from the source machine? 

Is this described in the online documentation? I just didn't know where to start looking. 

 



[#] Wed Nov 25 2020 12:51:37 EST from ParanoidDelusions

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Another "feature request" kind of post... 

It would be cool if there was a way to flag a message, bookmark it, save it for later - so that you could have a list you could click on that would take you back to that message. 

Right now I just "skip" the room so the pointer doesn't update - but that kind of creates a backlog as new messages come in. 

 

 



[#] Wed Nov 25 2020 14:02:17 EST from hamiltra

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Yes, it’s in the docs: https://www.citadel.org/system_administration_manual.html Under Import / Export of Citadel. Hope that helps.

 

Wed Nov 25 2020 11:39:53 EST from ParanoidDelusions @ Uncensored

 

Wed Nov 25 2020 08:57:09 EST from hamiltra @ Uncensored

I'm not an admin but my experience went pretty well migrating from RPi4 => Ubuntu 20.10. The process is really simple but make sure that your perms are 'right' on the source. The process to do this for me (easyinstall) was /usr/local/citadel/ctdlmigrate which walks you through the process of migrating from source to target. This tool asks a series of questions before using ssh and rsync to migrate from source to target. Generally, I believe the expectation is for root to be used on both machines where Citadel is running in both places. The migration for the DB tables went smoothly but my rsync failed. I just tarred the remaining directories and manually moved them. I'm sure the admins have a more insight. It might be advisable for both source and target to be of same version

 

Wed Nov 25 2020 08:17:37 EST from ParanoidDelusions @ Uncensored

Any one have ideas on how to migrate Citadel from a Pi 3B running Raspbian to an i5 running Debian? 




 



This is awesome, actually. Way more than I was hoping for. I'm assuming you do easyinstall on the new machine, then do the ctdlmigrate from the source machine? 

Is this described in the online documentation? I just didn't know where to start looking. 

 



 



[#] Thu Nov 26 2020 09:38:35 EST from wesleyallison

Subject: additional set up?

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Is there any additional setup that I need to do to get it to work I used easy install and port forward all the ports

I have a No-IP.com domain



[#] Thu Nov 26 2020 10:07:07 EST from warbaby

Subject: Re: additional set up?

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

You've told us basically nothing.

Any error messages in the console log on startup?

try (as root)

grep citadel /var/log/syslog

or

grep citserver /var/log/syslog

 

Thu Nov 26 2020 09:38:35 AM EST from wesleyallison @ Uncensored Subject: additional set up?

Is there any additional setup that I need to do to get it to work I used easy install and port forward all the ports

I have a No-IP.com domain



 



[#] Thu Nov 26 2020 10:48:09 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Subject: Re: additional set up?

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Can you connect locally? 

Thu Nov 26 2020 09:38:35 EST from wesleyallison @ Uncensored Subject: additional set up?

Is there any additional setup that I need to do to get it to work I used easy install and port forward all the ports

I have a No-IP.com domain



 



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