A week in now, and i like it. No, its not for everyone. Found that some things don't render well, due to people assuming OLED contrast and such.  But you can adjust things app-by-app ( which sort of surprised me, i expected all-or-nothing settings )  and get it better. 

For me, the important things work ( and in DAYLIGHT ) like camera, music, email ( rarely do ) text ( mostly to send an image ).  Battery life is good, even have an active clock on the lock screen. Something you could never do with OLED ( or LCD ).   

Things like a browner, is sort of like looking at the world thru a comic book view, but i wasn't surprised as i have had have color e-ink readers since it became commercially available. But my use case, its would be rare to touch a browser anyway. Of course if you are doom scroller on tiktok or some such nonsense, it wont do well for you at all.

Maps, same sort of thing, they are meant for the OLED contrast, but are usable, and y ou can see it perfectly fine no matter how bright the sunlight is.

Perhaps if i was stuck inside again, id stick with OLED and get the extra resolution/contrast, but even with occasional use indoors, i think its a more than fair trade-off.

I do wish it had an SD slot, like most Chinese phones do, and an actual audio jack, but its got 256G storage, and a simple USBc to audio jack isn't that large.. so not end of world. My pixel and i think most US phones are no different really these days. Cutting back on things like storage, so you want to climb aboard the upgrade treadmill. 

Oh, its got an IR port.. also common with Chinese phones.   Tho, that isn't as important as it used to be.

And..  since its got their own custom launcher Gemini is no where to be found. yay.

le sigh

So about 15 years ago, maybe a little longer, I switched to T-Mobile because I am Teh Cheapz0r and they were the lowest cost option.  Then they got $4B and spectrum from AT&T in the failed buyout and they ended up becoming sleeper awesome.  I was happy for a long time.

Last month I switched to Verizon.  Ever since the Sprint merger, T-Mobile has become unusable.  One-way audio, failed text messages, just utter crap.  Their RCS integration is utter garbage (which is why I switched to Textra and just got rid of RCS entirely).

I got my overall bill lowered by getting both my home fiber internet and mobile from them.  And their lowest-tier plan is more than enough for us.  We're not streaming 4K video on a 5" screen after all.

Well it came this morning.

So far, its pretty cool. Its not as fast as my pixel, but not slow either. I think it has more to do with the refresh rate, which IS slower, and expected to be, due to the different screen tech and not the actual device speed.   Tho surprisingly i accidentally hit a video when poking around, and it wasn't THAT bad. Not that id watch one as i dont on a phone anyway, but that it worked at all, ink has come a long way.

Inside, its not the best to read, but if i futz with the color/sidelight some more that will improve as the default isn't great but its got options. A couple of my normal apps, needed to just their 'defaults' as they assume OLED.  Installed my preferred music and camera apps, took it outside.  and I CAN READ THE SCREEN IN BROAD DAYLIGHT..... whoohoo! 

And in related mobile news.. 

These days about the only time i use my phone is when im out with the dogs, to take pictures or something. Stopped using it for music, due to battery life mostly, and 'american market phones' rarely have audio jacks, and i still like actual wires at times.  Even back in the office i never did watch videos, or doom scroll, play games, or much of anything really. For me a phone is just a portable media device/camera with the occasional text message and the ability to make an emergency call. If i wanted to watch video, its why i had a tablet.

My mp3 player i got to get around the battery issue with the phone ( and increased storage ..) , worked great in the office. But same issue now i have with the phone, i only use it out in the park or something. The display was impossible to read between sunlight and polarized glasses.  Ran across an e-ink player, which while i wasn't thrilled with the interface, it was usable and more than fixed the visibility problem AND battery life is soooo much better.  ( which is expected.. my e-ink readers, can last weeks of daily use ) and i got my jack back as a bonus.

This last weekend was out at the river, wanted to take pictures of the dogs.  Same damned thing, cant see anything on the phone unless i take off my glasses and hide the phone in my hat or something.

Frustrated.... "Hmm this is pointless, why dont i just do the same thing i did with the mp3 player"     so a color e-ink phone is on its way....  we will see..  ( no pun intended )

Always been a fan of e-ink, so this may be perfect for me. I only wish i had patented the idea back in the 80s when i invented it as a kid. but nooooooooooooooo.. 

So, like many Android users, i have a 3rd party launcher. Not fond of the default. Tho to be fair, the one on the pixel seems much better than 'carrier phones'.  Even had it on my android tablet,before i moved to ChromeOS tablets.

Nova.

Was great, simple, etc. Here lately it stopped getting updates. "eh, whatever, it still works, hope its not pulled from the store". Then suddenly a popup appeared "we are going to make a paid version and you get ads if you dont pay".  Next day, in the app drawer, they had a ad down at the bottom.  Eh, whatever, dont have a problem with them making a buck, and even considered giving them couple of dollars to support its future.

Next day, there were 2 ads. one in the middle one at the bottom. People ( me too ) went 'wtf'.  then a day or so later every other row was an ad. and some even were made to look like apps..  Reading other comments, people wont even pay now, they are so pissed at them ( one even said they still got ads AFTER they paid.. ). Great way to burn a brand down. Freaking scam.  

( and ya, i yanked it after the first fake app.. was still looking for an alternative but no, it had to go .. NOW ) 

Sad part is on 2 of my older Xiaomi phones i use for VoIP, music and with my drone, that was the default shipped launcher..   Doh!

My phone isn't configured to "discard" messages from those not in my contacts ... it just doesn't emit a notification unless it's someone I know.

So if it was important, I'll see it eventually.  And if I'm expecting an unsolicited text (such as "your order is ready for pickup") I'll go looking for it.

I realize that doesn't work for everyone.  I'm fortunate enough to be existing in a space where anyone who can legit get on my case for not returning their text message, is already in my contacts.

I just can't say enough bad things about text spammers.  Particularly the ones who pretend to be someone I might vote for or support.  One even pretended to be Erika Kirk.  These scammers are the second lowest form of life on the planet and they need to be raped with a cheese grater and then dumped into a vat of acid.

Posts in this thread making me wish I could just Thumbs Up/Like a message without responding. I still think this is a useful social media feature Citadel could use. 

But I know... It isn't gonna happen. Still, a guy can dream. 

Ya, it is pretty bad out there. I tend to ignore 99% of the messages i get on my phone. And the forced upgrade train, also sucks.

*le sigh*

I've got an "older" phone (if 2022 counts as "old") so I guess I'm off the upgrade train.  I don't have the newest-and-best Google Messages.

So I switched back to Textra.  Ironically, I originally moved to Google Messages because it has some spam filtering, and I'm moving back off it because of spam.  Even with the filters on, the amount of text spam I get now is simply ridiculous.  And the version of Google Messages I have doesn't have the ability to suppress messages, or even suppress alerts, from unknown numbers.

And that's what I want, y'see, because there's sooooooooooooooooooo much spam/scam coming over the wire now.  Much of it is political, which I can't stand, and as the lists get sold to less and less reputable people it eventually falls into the hands of scammers who have nothing to do with any campaign and are just appealing to people who think they might be donating to something other than a scammer halfway around the world.   And others are trying to appeal to my faith -- help Jesus save the unborn babies!  It's out of control.

So back to Textra I go, with a setting that makes it suppress notifications for messages from numbers not in my contacts.  I really wish it would file them in a spam/unknown folder instead.  Maybe I can find a program that does that.

The real wake up was learning how entrenched I was in the RCS ecosystem.  That's the Google equivalent to iMessage, dontcha know, where they figure out if both ends are on their system and if so, route around carrier SMS/MMS and just go device to device over their servers.  A lot of messages got lost over a few days.  I learned that I had to go to Google's web site and tell it to revoke the RCS registration for my phone number, to make it stop telling other Android users "yes, we'll take all your messages for IG right here on our servers, send 'em right here please."

And so I will always be that guy with the wrong color bubble, because I'm into sovereignty, at a pretty hardcore level.

And it seems we've turned that corner, where we just can't accept text messages from unknown numbers anymore.  Sic transit gloria mundi.

Yes, it should. That doesn't change the fact that it is :P

Sat Nov 01 2025 07:29:55 UTC from ParanoidDelusions

 

Fri Mar 15 2024 19:12:06 UTC from msgrhys

In the early morning, my father awoke to that creepy EAS tone emanating from his phone. It was a tornado warning.

 

Seriously, that tone is creepy.

Shouldn't it be? 

Fri Mar 15 2024 19:12:06 UTC from msgrhys

In the early morning, my father awoke to that creepy EAS tone emanating from his phone. It was a tornado warning.

 

Seriously, that tone is creepy.

Shouldn't it be? 

I don't need it so wont, but ran across sort of a neat thing today ( may be old news to others )

Clockwork "uconsole".

A portable case for a RPI SOC, screen, keyboard, battery..  So far, eh, whatever, but its also got a slot for a 4G cellular modem.    Sounds like a good candidate for a DYI VoIP phone.  Sort of like i was talking about a few threads ago, but in a nice case. 

WiFi, so when you have no cell.. still works...

And has BT of course so could be used as a meshtastic node too. 

I wonder. Just abstract thought. These things may not even exist now, but wonder if you could hack one up with a SBC that has a cell card and a wifi card..  A friend of mine once had super bad signal, but she had cable internet. ( this was before VoIP was common too )  They shipped her a 'reverse hotspot'.  It it basically pretended it was a low power cell tower in her living room, but hooked to her internet to to get outside.

Tue Oct 21 2025 10:50:45 UTC from darknetuser

The big concern isn't so much about consumer handsets, since those get

replaced every 3-5 years even by people who don't insist on having the

latest and greatest.
It's more about the radios built in to things like cars.

I am more concerned about networks getting phased out and disconnecting appliances that need to be connected, or networked machinery.

Around here we used to be warned we were going to make the switch away from the current available networks, but that never happens because so much people is still using the old ones.

Its not what i'm reading, but we will see.

Still pisses me off that perfectly working hardware gets 'cut off' so to speak.

Fri Oct 10 2025 03:26:28 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

I dunno, it seems like 4G is going to get phased out pretty quickly. Maybe not this year or next year, but I can't imagine it being another 5-10 years.

The big concern isn't so much about consumer handsets, since those get replaced every 3-5 years even by people who don't insist on having the latest and greatest.
It's more about the radios built in to things like cars.

Although most of us might agree that having your car no longer able to uplink would be a good feature.

Id not suggest getting it tho.   While its low end and the price was low end so expectations are low, i think its worth just spending the extra and get a mid-range chinese name brand.   Which i will do next time.

Them lying and then hacking the thing so it shows false storage, is annoying. Not functional stopper, but damned annoying.  And after a day or so of testing more doing some side-by-side with another phone, i suspect the battery is around 1/2 what they claim.  Ya, useable, but still annoying. 

May send it back. May not.  May just keep it as backup while i order a decent phone if my pixel dies. But been reading that 4G isn't going to be considered for retirement for at least 5-10 years, so not sure it matters..   Hell by then i may not be alive anyway. But that means other than lack of OS updates, my last 2 phones are just fine, and while they were not low-end, they are older, so not blaming anyone on that.

That is cool.

Tue Sep 23 2025 16:53:21 UTC from Nurb432

 The interesting thing is came with zero google stuff other than being android. No google services, not even chrome. 

 

Interesting item.

Since my pixel is going out of support next year ( it wont die of course.. just OS updates stop ) i thought id grab a cheap 5G china phone before more tariffs hit and shove it in the closet as an emergency backup just in case. Had a ship from the US, so some warehouse somewhere here in the states so no surprise bill from the fed. And like amazon, can always get money back if it never shows or is wrong. As mentioned the others i have for various wifi use, are either 3G or 4G, and not real sure how well that would work out in another year to go back to one.

Just being a backup plan I wasn't going to spend much on a name brand like i normally would have.  Got a cheap no-name clone of a samsung ultra. Not the best device, nor did i expect it, and they lied about storage ( but has a SD slot. so whatever ) but its not terrible, and will work ok.  The interesting thing is came with zero google stuff other than being android. No google services, not even chrome. Exactly what we have been talking about above.

Also has a stylus, not had one of those since my samsung notes long long ago ( both phone and tablet ). I didn't know that was still a thing. ( never used it.. novelty )

I guess i should add that most Chinese phones don't have the greatest radio reception. If you live in a good coverage area, you wont know the difference and they are fine. But i don't, and now that im home all the time and not up in town with towers everywhere, it matters a little.  So it was also a factor in the pixel purchase. Still not great reception, but enough i don't have to go outback, or to the park. Battery life was starting to go down a little too, not bad but noticeable.  All factors into my choice to move away from another Chinese sourced device, but mostly driven by the carrier being a dick.  Pixels seemed like the less troublesome of the options out there when it was 'time to move' since it doesn't have any of the carrier or 3rd party vendor crap, but i do miss having a SD slot.

Battery life is also why i picked up a tiny mp3 player to use at the office. The thing runs for days..  And now with the pixel, cant put much on it. Need room for the camera storage so that worked out well to already have it. ( but again, now that i'm mostly home, its mostly collecting dust )

Not that i'm trying to sell anyone, but i did leave those pieces out.

Along the lines of above. was going thru some stuff to get rid of ( still purging. i took a break. Laziness )

One of the things i pulled out of a drawer was one of my older xiaomi phones. Was actually my favorite phone i ever had to that point, and since then. Liked it even more than my Note 3..

• Was the perfect size, not tiny, and not the size of your face.
• Had enough power to not be pokey, and do HD video.
• Camera was at the level of flagship phones at the time. 
• Battery life was great ( still is.. charged it up and played with it some, its still doing better than my pixel )
• Actually had 2 sim slots AND an SD slot..   Don't see that anymore
• An actual audio jack..  ( they were starting to vanish at the time i got it )
• AND to top it off, an IR transceiver so it could be a TV remote control too.  ( or an old printer, if i still had one )
• Oh, and it didn't cost an arm and leg either. perhaps 200 bucks.  
• It also ran Android One, so was pretty minimalist..  Rather pleasant to use. ( tho i will say the pixel isn't as bad as carrier's phones, or some other brands, but its still not the same )

Why don't i still use it?

Well, aside from it being out of support so no updates ( not end of world.. apps i use, still work surprisingly, they all updated when i had it on ) carriers at the time decided i wasn't allowed to use it. Same sort reason its successor was replaced .. damned carriers trying to force you to buy new phones when you dont need to.   Now, my current prepay carrier may support it, but being a 4G radio, who knows how much longer. Its successor is 5G, but didn't support some stupid HD audio, when i had a data only plan in the first place, and mainly why the pixel was purchased ( then i moved on to the new another carrier ).

Frustrating really.  I understand some things like bumping up the radio frequencies and such as tech does move on, but all the other stuff, planned/forced obsolescence should be illegal.

And yes, both would work fine as WiFi based VoIP phones and 'media devices'.  I actually have a 3rd old one that does just that. ( another 4G only )  And its all it does, its only purpose in life is to ring in case something at the office melts down. Thing will run at idle for 3 weeks in the bedroom having to plug it in..  far better than my pixel.

xiaomi is a good company.  I used thier phones for a long time, until i moved to a pixel ( for reasons i have explained before, some due to carrier problems, others it was getting hard to get a replacement here, and some radio issues.. bla bla )

Problem these days is getting one with a radio that will work with US carriers.  And getting it here in the first place is a pain... as a lot of places no longer will sell their products to us.. even tho they were never black listed, like some other brands. Last time i had to go thru gear-best.. not my normal retailer that i used for some 20 years. 

Fri Aug 01 2025 02:31:51 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar

I would like my next handset to be a white label phone with an open source operating system. (And yes, I trust the Chinese government more than I trust Google ... as if there were a difference.)

I guess that is one way out of it, tho it wipes out their original goal of 'unrestricted' pixels. 

But with other generic android projects out there, will be a tough road. that they targeted pixels i think is what made them special.

Thu Jun 12 2025 23:19:31 UTC from SamuraiCrow

 

GrapheneOS devs are in discussions with OEM phone manufacturers to find a suitable replacement for new-model Pixel phones in the future.

Thu Jun 12 2025 11:43:43 UTC from Nurb432

Just read this morning that GrapheneOS's days are numbered. 

Google has announced they will no longer release DTB's for pixel devices. And i suspect ban extraction and use after that.  They claim they are not killing off AOSP, but i bet that is on the road-map and they are lying. 

GrapheneOS devs are in discussions with OEM phone manufacturers to find a suitable replacement for new-model Pixel phones in the future.

Just read this morning that GrapheneOS's days are numbered. 

Google has announced they will no longer release DTB's for pixel devices. And i suspect ban extraction and use after that.  They claim they are not killing off AOSP, but i bet that is on the road-map and they are lying. 

Mon Jun 09 2025 18:47:39 UTC from darknetuser Subject: Re: De-googled android

If you ever do some tcpdump on a network while your regular Android phone is connected to it, you'll get to see the ammount of crappy traffic it generates on its own. Removing that is enough to save battery.


GrapheneOS also claims to do baseband isolation, which is not perfect but it is better than what you get from regular phones.

In fact the policy for userspace crap is to isolate it in GrapheneOS. Say you really need to install a crappy banking app that requires google services. In GrapheneOS you can build that within a sandbox so the banking and an google services can't break into the rest of the phone. In fact thouse might not get turned on until you so require.

I am not familiar with driver specifics, you should bring your concerns to the GrapheneOS people.

I just looked up GrapheneOS and right on the second paragraph of their roadmap at https://grapheneos.org/faq#roadmap they say that they are looking for a way to use a microkernel architecture with a Linux user-mode compatibility layer. Just like that other link I had pointed to! I guess I should be communicating with them after all! I'll keep you posted!

Moving off-topic replies to Mobile Madness.

 Continuing discussion from the Digital Currency thread:

Tue Jun 10 2025 18:13:57 UTC from Nurb432

At this stage of the game, myself i don't worry too much about the 'tracking'.   That i'm using cell towers, means i'm tracked anyway.  The rest, just feeds the ad machine and i block that anyway.

 

 This isn't for just me. I said in a previous post:

Great! I was hoping to make an I2P encrypted phone using degoogled Android as a base. The one thing communist dictators and Islamic mullahs have in common is propaganda warfare that can only exist in an echo chamber.

I need something that's safe to use in the Middle East and communist countries as well. Everything going out or in to such a phone must look like untraceable data so that illegal speech is indecipherable from regular politically correct speech.

At this stage of the game, myself i don't worry too much about the 'tracking'.   That i'm using cell towers, means i'm tracked anyway.  The rest, just feeds the ad machine and i block that anyway.

And for me, losing google services would be bad.  I moved over to google voice when they bought out that VoIP company some 15+ years ago.  ( i forget the name, something 'central' i think ) I went VoIP back then just for the sake of convenience, so i can change carriers and not have to fight them to keep my number.. All i need is data and i have a 'phone', plus other options it opens like using my computer.. bla bla.  For me, that its now google running it, i have not seen any 'real' impact for me. ( tho now its free for personal use. it wasn't before.... )

Now that said, battery life, that would be nice. But doubt i could pull that off and not lose to many features. Poor battery is why i ended up getting a stand along mp3 player again. ( tho now it sits collecting dust, since i'm not in the office hardly at all. along whit a set of expensive headphones i got.. 2 days before we got sent home in 2020.. doh! )

And ironically i DO have a pixel. I used to get Chinese phones. ( xiaomi branded, basically the LG of china ) They were 1/3 the price for the same thing you get here plus no bloat ware, often times dual sims, etc.  But they have one issue.  Their radios are weak.  When i was in town all day, it didn't matter, but now that i'm home most of the time, it does.   ( as a backup for when internet goes out due to trees, and VoIP dies ).    Back when i was forced to get a new phone due to carrier rules ( something about requiring some stupid high definition voice protocol when i didn't even have a voice account.. grrr )  i went ahead and got the pixel.  Better radio, and lesser evil than carrier phones.  But fewer features ( like no SD card... )   I have since then found a carrier that does NOT require that stupid nonsense, but now its hard to get xiaomi phones that works here, due to a variety of reasons.  ( and i dont trust the no-name brands for quality )

https://iode.tech/ is also available for my Google Pixel 7a but also for several others. I'm eventually going to shift my parents off the Google overlords as well. It's in v6 beta but I want to be able to shift to another phone eventually.

Tue Jun 03 2025 19:13:42 UTC from darknetuser Subject: De-googled android

2025-05-23 21:49 from Nurb432
I might go with a Linux phone instead.. de-googleing android
cripples it far to much for me.  ( to be fair, Android was
built for google services since its part of their ecosystem,
nothing really nefarious going on, so when you remove them, it
does hurt )

Seriously, pick a Pixel phone and put GrapheneOS on it with the F-droid software "store". It is every bit as good as Android without the spyware.

My daily driver is a Pixel 7a. I've heard that GrapheneOS saves battery life so much that it only needs to charge twice a week once it quits narking you out to Google every 5 minutes.

My only concern is that the Android drivers used in a Google phone come from Google and run in supervisor mode, no less. How do you keep closed-source drivers from calling home on demand? My plan was to install drivers on the L4Re microkernel and run the user-mode stuff with http://L4Linux.org as a user-mode passthrough layer. That way, the drivers would be forced into user-mode using IPC to communicate. (I think I mentioned that before.)

Sat Feb 01 2025 18:31:05 UTC from IGnatius T Foobar Subject: Re: Degoogled phones?

Cool project.  Looking forward to seeing it.  Will it work on non-degoogled phones?

Yes. I'm not planning on accessing any protocols that require either Google or MicroG directly.

Cool project.  Looking forward to seeing it.  Will it work on non-degoogled phones?

Answering my own question:

[

https://doc.e.foundation/support-topics/build-e

]

I'm developing a Citadel client for DeGoogled phones as a primary target. Does anyone here know how to emulate /e/OS or any other open-source Android on Android Studio?

My mobile is a "Motorola" Moto G 5G 2023.  I liked it so much that when my wife's phone needed replacement I bought another one, likewise for my daughter.  Today I bought the 2024 model to replace my wife's handset and she promised to buy a case this time.   :)

It's a really good handset for USD $200.  128 GB storage, a decent screen, runs everything, not too much crapware and what's there can be disabled.

But if you think you're buying a Motorola phone ... think again.  I've since learned that phones labeled "Motorola" are actually made by Lenovo.  Some time ago, Motorola sold their "Motorola Mobility" division to 联想 (Liánxiǎng), along with the rights to continue using the Motorola name.  It really bugs me when manufacturers of consumer electronics masquerade as classic brands, even if the product is decent.

Not heard of it. will look

Mon Jul 29 2024 21:48:49 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

RingCentral?

Know anything about " textmeinc " ? 

Supposedly free text/call   Not sure how they pay the bills.   But been around ~13 years now.

Looking for free ( or cheap ) VoIP alternatives to g-voice. But i dont want to give up my number.  I transferred it over to whatever the service was before google bought them.  i forget the name now, but same number for decades now. ( central something or other i think ) Same number between 3 carriers and countless phones, not including the carriers i had since i went to VoIP, since at that point it didn't need to be moved, i only use data.  For a bit i didn't even have one, just used WiFi 

I suppose if it only works with big base stations then you could initially create a mesh network, internally to an organization or between family and friends, just like community mesh networks do with radio signals now.  I'd prefer it that way, but I'm sure it wouldn't stay that way forever.

Melinda Clippy Gates is supporting Biden because she is a huge advocate for murdering unborn babies, and that's a left wing thing.

Arrrgh... typos and nonsense.  

Typo check is getting worse and worse. ( and i still am not proof reading )

Even if we dont fully understand it, experiments do work to show entanglement does happen and you can 'detect/influence' it.  So it can be used for communications even if we are wrong about the underlying components of it.

Sure, we might be wrong and in the end it might not really be across ' all of space' as the theory states, since we cant prove it yet, but in the bigger picture, if its instantaneous for distances that encompass the earth.. who cares, its good enough. Might even be as large as the solar system, which would be good if we ever get off this rock. But again, we only can speculate, cant prove it yet.

And sure, small consumer level devices are way down the road, but does not mean it cant happen someday. Id expect to see data center first as that is doable..  Then if they can miniaturize it to be practicable, perhaps offices, homes..  then portable. But, a really long process that none of us alive day will get to witness, unless some out of left field discovery comes around.  But, it would be neat to see it.  Remember radio went down the same path. long way to get from huge boxes of stuff eating megawatts of power, to what fits in your watch. And radio was like magic, in its day.

I also suspect we will still need 'service', as we have to connect to the data-ocean and it wont be 'free' ..  If it cant be controlled via terminating your connection ( which i doubt ) your 'decryption key' or something on your device becomes invalid if you don't pay your bill. Sort of like how they can kill your cell service today, yet you still can 'access' the signal.

And im not sure id toss it into the same bucket as free energy,  everyone agrees that its not trivial at all to do entanglement. Nor will it ever be. its hard work.  And ya physics has been wrong before, its why its called science, it can be wrong, and is open to alternative explanations. If it can be proven via reproducible experimentation, that is.  Agreed too, that currently quantum and macro don't interact well, however one does not negate the other. But who is to say that wont change down the road? The option for a Unified Theory is on the table.. if we can find the connection. ( something else i doubt any of us alive today will see.. but if we dont die out first as a species, we may find it )

Oh, and ya. Gates needs to go.  I hear his wife just claimed support for Biden.. So, they can ride on the same carrier. 

( and im rambling. sorry about that )

Sat Jun 22 2024 10:30:08 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

If someone can figure out a way to get Bill Gates thrown into the sun, I don't care whether it takes 8 minutes.  Just make it happen.

Call me old and cranky, but I suspect that there's something missing, and you're not going to be able to simply transmit data by putting a spin on a particle and another particle somewhere else in the universe spins in synchronicity with it.  The fact that it defies the laws of physics and they have to say "but it's quantum physics" has a "free energy" vibe to it.

Hey, I hope I'm wrong.  Imagine being able to demolish every cell tower in the world because everyone is carrying around a handset that needs no service because it's quantum-paired to a base station on a wired network somewhere in the universe.  Again, it seems unlikely.

If someone can figure out a way to get Bill Gates thrown into the sun, I don't care whether it takes 8 minutes.  Just make it happen.

Call me old and cranky, but I suspect that there's something missing, and you're not going to be able to simply transmit data by putting a spin on a particle and another particle somewhere else in the universe spins in synchronicity with it.  The fact that it defies the laws of physics and they have to say "but it's quantum physics" has a "free energy" vibe to it.

Hey, I hope I'm wrong.  Imagine being able to demolish every cell tower in the world because everyone is carrying around a handset that needs no service because it's quantum-paired to a base station on a wired network somewhere in the universe.  Again, it seems unlikely.

Why not?

Entanglement = instantaneously observed effect across any distance ( at least in theory, we cant really test real distance ).  Change a "bit" here, you see the change instantly there. Be it across the room or in  Alpha Centauri.   

Fri Jun 21 2024 09:18:16 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I don't think that's actually how quantum networking works?

Cant say if i did or did not like them as i dont know, but always like pseudo competition.   Seems T mobile could not handle the partial competition and bought out mint mobile. Just like AT&T did to Cricket ( and i'm sure others )  I say pesudo competition as all these little 3rd party providers lease bandwidth from the big guys anyway, so really, they are making money without the hassle of dealing directly with customers..  *shrug*

With luck mine does not get bought out. they contract with all the main carriers so they support everything and everybody.

Not to go down the baby bell discussion, but i really hate what the current state of affairs is.   But yes, i do realize it costs TONS of cash to setup communications networks.   Looking forward to when we have quantum networking chips.  No more wires, fiber, radio, any of it. Instant communications, anywhere in the universe. ( literally ). Of course the network carriers will fight that tooth and nail to suppress that tech in any way possible.

In the early morning, my father awoke to that creepy EAS tone emanating from his phone. It was a tornado warning.

Seriously, that tone is creepy.

, and "threats" from google to migrate from android someday, 

Google makes noises from time to time whenever they have a research project that could turn into a phone OS, but at this point they're probably tied to Android, specifically Android with its Linux underpinnings, as much as Apple and M$ are tied to their existing platforms.  They'd probably make some effort to run existing Android apps but it would consume so much of the phone's resources that people would feel free to move to another platform at that point.

There are cross-platform development kits like Xamarin (may they rot in hell forever -- this one is personal) but in the end we all know that maximizing what the browser can do is the proper way to make a universal mobile app ecosystem.  And I think developers know that this is eventually where it goes.

True, but if you use web-apps, its only one code base to support not 2 ( or 3 since there is that Samsung OS out there too, and "threats" from google to migrate from android someday, and you got Linux phones coming, slowly ), No playing catch-up with OS releases when the APIs change on you, or dealing with stupid/oppressive app stores, both due to rules and monetary kickbacks..   ( now i remember what the original thread was about, it was about threats of twitter's app getting banned after musk took over and what they could do about it.. )

Thu Jan 19 2023 08:52:36 PM EST from LadySerenaKitty

Native apps would run faster than any webapp, and use less memory doing so.

 

 

Native apps would run faster than any webapp, and use less memory doing so.

Thu Jan 19 2023 18:36:19 EST from Nurb432

I forget where this was being discussed:

Dropping native mobile apps for size responsive web apps and the question was how hard would it be to add a home screen icon on phones. Seems for both android and apple, its a single step now.. so anyone can do it, it takes zero 'tech knowledge' to do it.

So really, why bother with native apps if they need data, since they wont work off-line anyway?

I forget where this was being discussed:

Dropping native mobile apps for size responsive web apps and the question was how hard would it be to add a home screen icon on phones. Seems for both android and apple, its a single step now.. so anyone can do it, it takes zero 'tech knowledge' to do it.

So really, why bother with native apps if they need data, since they wont work off-line anyway?

I might pick up a new one sometime, take a peek inside. but wont break open what i have :)

Not had to buy any for years, so i may have just got 'ahead of the bad curve'

Are they? I have 2 LED replacement bulbs that have run continuously for ~10 years now. The only time they go off is when we lose power due to storms.  Used to be florescent bulbs in there and they did NOT last long

Perhaps they are before this started happening?

Sat Jan 07 2023 09:53:46 AM EST from IGnatius T Foobar

How about LED light bulbs? Is that planned obsolescence or forced obsolescence?
A few savvy people have caught on to the fact that they overrun the LED emitters so that they have an artificially limited service life. And then there's the "Dubai Lamp" which is only available in Dubai, because the government contracted out to have it built, which operates the LED emitters within their specified current range and temperature so it lasts practically forever. Now we've got people outside of Dubai opening up light bulbs and changing the resistor values to make them last longer.

I miss planned obsolescence. I first read about it fifty years ago in dusty old reprints of MAD Magazine. Now we have forced obsolescence.

Which is why they now build in planned destruction in devices ( like non-user removable batteries.. or things that just 'magically die' in a couple of years )

Thu Jun 02 2022 09:12:34 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

That's the nice thing about where we are with technology right now -- for the most part you can be perfectly happy with cheap/old stuff if you're only doing generic stuff with it. I'm typing this message on a ten year old laptop and will save it to a server that is just as old.

Mon Feb 14 2022 08:45:14 EST from zelgomer

I buy cheap phones. On the one occassion that I did drop one on concrete and shatteted the screen, I didn't cry, continued to use it for another 6 months, and finally when part of the touchscreen started acting flakey I bought a new cheapo.

Something must be wrong with me. I just don't use my phone for much other than as a telephone, for ssh, and for browsing the news so that I don't have to make eye contact with strangers in public. For those purposes, the cheapest android phones you can find these days work just fine.

I am quite frugal with money when it comes to computers/phones (no difference these days LOL). Cheap phone, all my laptop/desktop computers are secondhand (or third or fourth hand for all I know) and run Linux or BSD (Windows runs like a snail on them, not a problem since I don't care for Windows anyway).

I've got expensive phones, I'm very cautious - I keep a smaller rubber bumper case and a regular screen protector. I've never cracked a screen - ever... 

Yet. 

Mine is mostly a music player and a convenient camera, that also can go online for texting to the wife.

Also is nice as a WAP, if i need to get into work or something.  ( which is rare )

Mon Feb 14 2022 08:45:14 AM EST from zelgomer

I buy cheap phones. On the one occassion that I did drop one on concrete and shatteted the screen, I didn't cry, continued to use it for another 6 months, and finally when part of the touchscreen started acting flakey I bought a new cheapo.

Something must be wrong with me. I just don't use my phone for much other than as a telephone, for ssh, and for browsing the news so that I don't have to make eye contact with strangers in public. For those purposes, the cheapest android phones you can find these days work just fine.

I used to be big into cases as i was paranoid.   Got tired of the bulk and just have a thin rubber bump guard now.   I also now have cheaper phones, not 1k flagships but 200 dollar china mid-range phones. 

Never dropped a phone so not yet broken a phone, but i had one fall in the jeep under the seat and scratch the screen protector.   I did have one of my e-ink readers take a dive one time, but the case took the shock. No damage. Had one tablet get knocked off a chair by a dog ( at the vet, so it was concrete floor ).  Destroyed it, even with a case on, it hit 'just right' i guess.

Agreed. Same here. 

Thu Apr 29 2021 10:45:23 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I know where my parents did well and where they failed. As a parent I will have a different set of wins and fails.

ya but ones who worked to find the answers, were the better parents in the spectrum.

Mon Apr 26 2021 11:45:58 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

The trick is, your parents were generally as clueless as you - and you were just projecting your assurance of their credibility on them. 

Within this range there are good parents and bad parents, of course - but they're all just faking it and prone to be human. 

The trick is, your parents were generally as clueless as you - and you were just projecting your assurance of their credibility on them. 

Within this range there are good parents and bad parents, of course - but they're all just faking it and prone to be human. 

Oh forgot the % cut of gross they take...even if you dont make money they do....

My parents were great.

I only wish dad's shop had not folded while i was in high school, as i would have taken it over perhaps 15 or 20 years ago.  But he opened a franchise, and those often fail due to the rules you have to follow. While we could have done it on or own and survived during bad economy ( early 80s ), at the time he thought it would help due to the national visibility of a brand name.  But not really, and their rules made it impossible to survive. 

They set prices, your suppliers, prevented you from branching out at all with other services..

Bad scene.  Hard lesson.

I mean... I suppose it has all been IT... 

But it was retail, telecommunications, high availability software support, Datacenter engineering, Hosted Server Management in Healthcare. 

So... it isn't the industry - it is the niche of IT in the industry that sucks. :) 

Tue Apr 20 2021 07:19:39 EDT from Nurb432

I think its just the industries we have chosen.  

Mon Apr 19 2021 21:44:39 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

I seem to be the kiss of death for a company. Or at least, once I leave. 

 

I think its just the industries we have chosen.  

Mon Apr 19 2021 21:44:39 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

I seem to be the kiss of death for a company. Or at least, once I leave. 

I worked for a company called the Byte Brokers. I left right as CompUSA and Fry's were arriving. They didn't survive. 

I went to MCI. *shrug*

I left MCI for a company called Fulltime that was really a conglomerate of Octok3rpus, Fulltime Cluster, Checkpoint and a couple other high availability solutions. They ended up getting bought out by a company called Legato, that eventually became absorbed into EMC. 

I left them for Intel. I left Intel in 2003 - shortly after the first time in their history where they didn't recover the price of their stock after a split. They just got above water around 2017 where I could dump all my underwater stocks. 

Then I worked for a company in Ohio called Matrix Management solutions. They host EMR/EHR solutions. Or they did. NextGen EMR - a struggling bay area EMR/EHR solutions company bought them. They're no longer there. 

I seem to be the kiss of death for a company. Or at least, once I leave. 

I'm not

Mon Apr 19 2021 10:58:30 EDT from Nurb432

I have watched more than one fall apart.   Its never pretty.

 

I have watched more than one fall apart.   Its never pretty.

One i saw coming and got out just before it..  Perhaps the largest service org on the planet at the time.  Destroyed by the board for quick cash. Most went to jail some 10 years later for securities fraud.

While working for that company, i was stationed at a local Ford plant. Once i saw what was going on and mentioned that i may not be around much longer, they offered me a plant engineering job to stay.   Next day corporate announced 'we are cutting you loose to be an independent operation'...    Um, better not, but thanks for the offer..  and 300 people retired the next week, so they could retire under Ford rules.  ( this was also the place where we were going to lose the national ford contract, and did a bunch of leg work and saved it. all the sales guy had to do was call up to Dearborn and tell them we still wanted it.   Didn't even bother to return my call until after " ya, i should have called you back " wtf. 

Another i was just the first wave and it caught me off guard.   About a year later it was sold. Lots of friends still there.   A new CFO came in, gutted the place " look at what i saved " got a bonus the left.  The they went under.  I really liked that place, and its people, i had hoped it was forever.  His idea of cost savings was fire everyone during annual shut down, or empty the maintenance crib of parts.. 

Hell, even the division i worked for with GM back in the 80s..  long gone.

Its the one reason im in the industry i am now. it wont go away. Or if it does, we are all screwed anyway and its academic.   But i do miss automotive :(

Mon Apr 19 2021 10:20:25 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I've had the experience of seeing a company completely collapse once I exited.
Unfortunately it was a family business. :(

Thankfully, my current employer is a midwestern-owned company that is always talking about "work/life balance" -- and they MEAN it. It's built in to the culture and I have time for family and hobbies *and* I am paid well for the work I do. I couldn't ask for more, really.

Yup. 100% agree. "He just sits in there and surfs all day." 

Then quit, and open competition - surely if he is asleep at the wheel, and you're the one doing all the heavy lifting at the company, you can outcompete him, right? 

And I often find that I need to center myself about the customers. Sure, they're a pain in the ass, they ask stupid questions, they're demanding and unreasonable. 

They're also the ones paying my paycheck. So... I smile and try to be helpful and patient and courteous. 

Sun Apr 18 2021 13:16:07 EDT from Nurb432

In most cases without the CEO, there is no company. no direction.   I have never understood people who yell 'they are not worth that much'  Sure, they are not out there on the line pounding iron beside you ( tho, many did at one point in the past ), but they are not disposable.

 

Sort of like where i work: "our customers are stupid and suck, i wish they would go away so we can get back to our job".. "um, you do realize we are only here due to them, right?"

Sun Apr 18 2021 12:50:39 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

And the thing with Buffett is that I bet he was still to busy most of his career to do the little old midwestern man hobbies that he would have liked to. 

I don't necessarily agree with Buffett or Gates or Zuckenberg - but I'm well aware that it is a misconception that the CEOs and captains of industry do the easy work while the laborers exchange their toil for a handful of dimes. Usually the business gives those guys the money to afford nice things, but the business owns the person. 

 

 

 

In most cases without the CEO, there is no company. no direction.   I have never understood people who yell 'they are not worth that much'  Sure, they are not out there on the line pounding iron beside you ( tho, many did at one point in the past ), but they are not disposable.

Sort of like where i work: "our customers are stupid and suck, i wish they would go away so we can get back to our job".. "um, you do realize we are only here due to them, right?"

Sun Apr 18 2021 12:50:39 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

And the thing with Buffett is that I bet he was still to busy most of his career to do the little old midwestern man hobbies that he would have liked to. 

I don't necessarily agree with Buffett or Gates or Zuckenberg - but I'm well aware that it is a misconception that the CEOs and captains of industry do the easy work while the laborers exchange their toil for a handful of dimes. Usually the business gives those guys the money to afford nice things, but the business owns the person. 

 

 

And the thing with Buffett is that I bet he was still to busy most of his career to do the little old midwestern man hobbies that he would have liked to. 

I don't necessarily agree with Buffett or Gates or Zuckenberg - but I'm well aware that it is a misconception that the CEOs and captains of industry do the easy work while the laborers exchange their toil for a handful of dimes. Usually the business gives those guys the money to afford nice things, but the business owns the person. 

Holy shit! 

That is a terrible story. I was expecting some comic adolescent misadventure with concrete. Yeah. I wouldn't want anything to do with it ever again, either! 

Ok that one line was terribly written.

"The family built houses for 3 generations, i was the first to go into another field"

lol

I was 19 ish, and my dad sold heavy equipment for auto body shops  ( it was a business we knew, since we had a shop of our own for many years earlier ) Normally he would farm out the installation and collect his sales %, but had the brilliant idea we would start doing installs.  I could the money, he could,  was mostly weekend work so i agreed it was a cool idea.

Most of the stuff were lifts, guide posts, a few things that you install into the floors ( 4" wide termination pots ).  Sure, 'work' but nothing drastic. The 'big ticket' item ( 200k  i think.. and this was almost 40 years ago ) which hardly anyone sold was a 'floor rack' for pulling cars back straight. Think of it as a bunch of I-Beams bolted to the floor in a grid the size of a 2 car garage with all the open area covered in concrete. Nearly an entire truck of concrete. Install was about the same as the others, lots of hols in the floor, mounting pots, etc. But then you stick what seems like endless i-beams onto the floor and bolt them down  Still, not drastic just heavy sons-o-bitches. ( more on that in a moment )

So we got that down and ready that morning, concrete guy shows up after lunch and starts pouring.  And we do our thing of moving the stuff around.  Again, not 'bad' just hard work.

Then comes in the regional manager. "you are doing this wrong it will take forever, dump it all at once here in the middle"  Umm wtf.. no..  even the truck driver "um you dont want to do this"  but he started yelling that he knew better, did this all the time ( lie ) and it happened. An entire truck of concrete. at once.   So it was me and my father trying to push out yards and yards of drying concrete into place,  including getting it up inside the i-beams but not in the slots on top. etc etc.   A lot  harder than just pouring a floor.   Some 10 hours..  but we did it.  ( meanwhile about an hour in the manager "ooh, that was a bad idea,  sorry, good luck" )  funny thing was we used some of the larger open areas as 'stir pots' and added water as we staged concrete .. then had to carry the stuff around with shovels. Tried to make due with what we had. We were in the middle of nowhere, could not risk leaving to get more tools like buckets, and having it solidify in one pile in the middle of t

This was Saturday in to Sunday morning like perhaps 3AM before we left.  Come Monday the shop owner "I want this floated ( against standards, perhaps even code ) or i refuse to pay you a dime and you will have to sue me to get your ruined equipment back, after i use it".   Due to the amount of money to be lost, even tho we would win, after months and months of court battles, dad decided to just pay someone to tear it out and do it again.   

Clearly that was it for me. 

Year or so later he sold another, and i declined to help " sorry, i got some stuff at school going on and i really cant take the weekend off to drive down, work and drive back".  During that one, the guy helping decided the beam was to heavy and just dropped it.  Dad managed to get his feet and one hand out of the away.  Lost a finger.  They had to sew it back on.    That was when he stopped too. 

6 months later, the company had a national new product line announcement. Flew everyone in from all over the country to some huge auditorium. ( i forget where, but driving distance from here ).

"hahaha we lied. No new products. You are all fired, we are going to contractors only now.  You can get your last check at the door on the way out",  If you want to sell for us as a contractor let us know.  Dad flipped them the bird and went back into our 'family business' ( historical anyway ) of building custom houses.   Sort of wish i had got into that instead of electronics like him and my grandfather ( and a few others in the family too )... 

Oh, and no, the manager didnt "accidentally" fall into the concrete that evening...  tho it was talked about more than once.

Sun Apr 18 2021 08:05:45 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

And I want to hear about the concrete misadventure, now. 

 

That would be me, if i was able to do it. I would also be giving a lot of it away to good causes.

And of course the animal shelter id be running...

Sun Apr 18 2021 08:05:14 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

I suppose unless you become a Warren Buffett type billionaire - where you live like a little old modest-income Midwestern man sitting on a Smaug-like mountain of personal wealth.

And I want to hear about the concrete misadventure, now. 

👍

Did you quietly add the above feature to Citadel recently, Ig?

Anyhow - my actual thought was that another problem is that as you get wealthy - you get so many more things - that it becomes impractical for you to do the *doing* of all of those things. It becomes a practical necessity that you need to have OTHER people take on management of a lot of the stuff in your life. It is the Tyler Durden maxim, "The Things You Own Own You." 

I suppose unless you become a Warren Buffett type billionaire - where you live like a little old modest-income Midwestern man sitting on a Smaug-like mountain of personal wealth.

As I became wealthier and my circles began to include actual 1%ers - I became more aware of just how much more complicated your life gets as you climb the income brackets. On my 3 acre property in Ohio - I was the grounds keeper - but the very wealthy neighbor on 12 acres had a full time one, and a building full of equipment with an office for that dude

Sat Apr 17 2021 13:49:36 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I do everything myself, and probably would still do it myself if I had a lot more money. Because I like doing it. So when 6G shows up and it's faster than fiber, I will be the one installing the 100 foot tall antenna tower in the backyard.

Forgot, there is one thing i WONT do.  Pour concrete.

Not that i cant, but had a bad experience once as a kid, and i swore **never again** will i get involved in it.  Just out of principle. 

Sat Apr 17 2021 12:14:24 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

When I've been struggling financially - I do most everything that needs to be done myself. When I'm a little more successful, a lot of times, it costs me more to do it myself than to pay someone else to do it - in particular if it is something that requires specific skill, experience and expertise to do well. But there is a balance to this. I installed a ceiling fan, put up a drip system, and reroofed my poolside bar's shade cover. I did it as part of a leisure day - as a project for the fun of it. So, it wasn't taking away from my income producing productivity. 

But... when we actually remodel the pool and patio - we'll hire contractors to come in and do it right. 

Sat Apr 17 2021 07:33:41 EDT from Nurb432

I'm not poor, i'm not rich,  ( been a little of both over my life span tho ) and i dislike it when i cant do it myself, for whatever reason.  Just how i was raised: Something needed to be done, we just 'did it'. 

 

 

 

When I've been struggling financially - I do most everything that needs to be done myself. When I'm a little more successful, a lot of times, it costs me more to do it myself than to pay someone else to do it - in particular if it is something that requires specific skill, experience and expertise to do well. But there is a balance to this. I installed a ceiling fan, put up a drip system, and reroofed my poolside bar's shade cover. I did it as part of a leisure day - as a project for the fun of it. So, it wasn't taking away from my income producing productivity. 

But... when we actually remodel the pool and patio - we'll hire contractors to come in and do it right. 

Sat Apr 17 2021 07:33:41 EDT from Nurb432

I'm not poor, i'm not rich,  ( been a little of both over my life span tho ) and i dislike it when i cant do it myself, for whatever reason.  Just how i was raised: Something needed to be done, we just 'did it'. 

 

 

 

I'm not poor, i'm not rich,  ( been a little of both over my life span tho ) and i dislike it when i cant do it myself, for whatever reason.  Just how i was raised: Something needed to be done, we just 'did it'. 

Sat Apr 17 2021 00:38:12 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

I don't know. There are so *many* things the poor do for me that I wouldn't think of doing myself. I don't know how I ever tolerated being poor - but I'm so thankful I've corrected the imposition. 

Fri Apr 16 2021 17:26:23 EDT from Nurb432

Or sanitize your phone?

Fri Apr 16 2021 16:02:54 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

LOL... Agreed. Poor people cause much more suffering and disruption in society. Poor people are terrible. If we were all smart enough to be rich, or to get rid of the poor people... the world would be a far better place. 

But... then who would flip my wagyu beef burgers? Unfortunately - they're a necessary evil. 

 

 

 

I don't know. There are so *many* things the poor do for me that I wouldn't think of doing myself. I don't know how I ever tolerated being poor - but I'm so thankful I've corrected the imposition. 

Fri Apr 16 2021 17:26:23 EDT from Nurb432

Or sanitize your phone?

Fri Apr 16 2021 16:02:54 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

LOL... Agreed. Poor people cause much more suffering and disruption in society. Poor people are terrible. If we were all smart enough to be rich, or to get rid of the poor people... the world would be a far better place. 

But... then who would flip my wagyu beef burgers? Unfortunately - they're a necessary evil. 

 

 

Or sanitize your phone?

Fri Apr 16 2021 16:02:54 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

LOL... Agreed. Poor people cause much more suffering and disruption in society. Poor people are terrible. If we were all smart enough to be rich, or to get rid of the poor people... the world would be a far better place. 

But... then who would flip my wagyu beef burgers? Unfortunately - they're a necessary evil. 

 

LOL... Agreed. Poor people cause much more suffering and disruption in society. Poor people are terrible. If we were all smart enough to be rich, or to get rid of the poor people... the world would be a far better place. 

But... then who would flip my wagyu beef burgers? Unfortunately - they're a necessary evil. 

Fri Apr 16 2021 12:39:16 EDT from nonservator

DAE MUH BOTH SIDES JUST AS BAD

 

lol no

"we will put a free coupon for the vax in each case of bud"

Fri Apr 16 2021 11:25:04 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

But the NASCAR thing was entertaining - and shows that the Left is just as thick skulled about seeing their own hypocrisies on issues of these as is the Right. 

DAE MUH BOTH SIDES JUST AS BAD

lol no

Yes, it was humorous. I actually physically laughed at it.  ( after i scrolled back to be sure that is what she said )

Fri Apr 16 2021 11:25:04 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

But the NASCAR thing was entertaining - and shows that the Left is just as thick skulled about seeing their own hypocrisies on issues of these as is the Right. 

But the NASCAR thing was entertaining - and shows that the Left is just as thick skulled about seeing their own hypocrisies on issues of these as is the Right. 

Agreed, in general. I'm pretty much here - I just find it amusing when people hold morally flexible contradictions as core values based on their political ideology - and how easily the human psyche denies cognitive dissonance in its core values. 

There is no doubt there is a contradiction in people who lean right who were utterly offended when Hillary Clinton implied they all lived in trailer parks and bred with their close relatives, but who have no issue with implying that all rich people are uncaring, manipulative, evil people who want nothing else but to reduce the rest of the world to a servant class while amassing more and more of the personal wealth for themselves. 


NEITHER are the reality, of course. 

Fri Apr 16 2021 08:21:11 EDT from Nurb432

I know it wasn't directed at me, but i know i dont really use them ( at least not in a serous sense.. more in jest ), and if someone tries to put me into a stereotypical box, i dont care. I know i dont fit in any box.   I may find it amusing however, like the latest from our admin spokeswoman " we are going to inform the white conservatives about the vax, by advertising on NASCAR" 

Fri Apr 16 2021 01:00:02 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

So, it is OK for you to portray them as a stereotype, because they're evil and deserve it. But it is wrong for them to portray you as trailer trash, because it is a lie used to oppress you. 

Sounds *suspiciously* like the rhetoric of the SJW. I'm just sayin'... 

Thu Apr 15 2021 17:58:05 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Apples and oranges. The 1%, and the 40% who are their slaves, NEED to portray us as trailer trash because it is part of the illusion they use to maintain control.

 

 

LOL... 

exactly like

This is the *precise* argument that SJWs use to practice the very hatred they claim to be opposed to. 

"Straight white males enjoy a position of privilege which makes it impossible for them to be discriminated against. They are blind to their privilege, and if they deny that they cannot be discriminated against, it is proof of their privilege. They perpetuate their oppression of all other groups through this, and so they should be isolated, excluded, and otherwise marginalized to give their oppressed a level playing field and true social equity can only be achieved by treating them with lower standards than we treat all other groups. " 


"The wealthy members of the top 1% enjoy a position of privilege which makes it impossible for them to be discriminated against. They are blind to their privilege, and if they deny that they cannot be discriminated against, it is proof of their privilege. They perpetuate

Fri Apr 16 2021 07:13:21 EDT from nonservator

 

Fri Apr 16 2021 01:00:02 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

So, it is OK for you to portray them as a stereotype, because they're evil and deserve it. But it is wrong for them to portray you as trailer trash, because it is a lie used to oppress you. 

Sounds *suspiciously* like the rhetoric of the SJW. I'm just sayin'... 

Thu Apr 15 2021 17:58:05 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Apples and oranges. The 1%, and the 40% who are their slaves, NEED to portray us as trailer trash because it is part of the illusion they use to maintain control.

 

 lol no

I know it wasn't directed at me, but i know i dont really use them ( at least not in a serous sense.. more in jest ), and if someone tries to put me into a stereotypical box, i dont care. I know i dont fit in any box.   I may find it amusing however, like the latest from our admin spokeswoman " we are going to inform the white conservatives about the vax, by advertising on NASCAR" 

Fri Apr 16 2021 01:00:02 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

So, it is OK for you to portray them as a stereotype, because they're evil and deserve it. But it is wrong for them to portray you as trailer trash, because it is a lie used to oppress you. 

Sounds *suspiciously* like the rhetoric of the SJW. I'm just sayin'... 

Thu Apr 15 2021 17:58:05 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Apples and oranges. The 1%, and the 40% who are their slaves, NEED to portray us as trailer trash because it is part of the illusion they use to maintain control.

 

Fri Apr 16 2021 01:00:02 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

So, it is OK for you to portray them as a stereotype, because they're evil and deserve it. But it is wrong for them to portray you as trailer trash, because it is a lie used to oppress you. 

Sounds *suspiciously* like the rhetoric of the SJW. I'm just sayin'... 

Thu Apr 15 2021 17:58:05 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Apples and oranges. The 1%, and the 40% who are their slaves, NEED to portray us as trailer trash because it is part of the illusion they use to maintain control.

 

 lol no

So, it is OK for you to portray them as a stereotype, because they're evil and deserve it. But it is wrong for them to portray you as trailer trash, because it is a lie used to oppress you. 

Sounds *suspiciously* like the rhetoric of the SJW. I'm just sayin'... 

Thu Apr 15 2021 17:58:05 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Apples and oranges. The 1%, and the 40% who are their slaves, NEED to portray us as trailer trash because it is part of the illusion they use to maintain control.

You understand of course, that the 1% have their own stereotypes about the lower classes. 

I suppose they exist for a reason, too.  

It is easy for you to throw them all in with Hillary Clinton as soulless, power hungry, Satanists. 

But when they throw you in with the trailer-park dwelling, uneducated basket of deplorables covered in the stink of Walmart - you're outraged. 

Thu Apr 15 2021 14:08:21 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

To me the negative label of 1% is not the 1% of wealth.  Its the
rich people who are jerks getting/being there.  One can be super
wealthy and still not be an evil Jerk.      While i know its a

Exactly. And it helps to understand that "class" is a badly overloaded word.
Look at someone like Mike Robinson, who is filthy rich but has had ZERO class its entire life. And as for money, I suspect the love of money over the love of God and Man is disproportionately larger in the 1% than it is in other economic strata. Bill Gates is a declared atheist. He is ABSOLUTELY going to hell unless he repents.

Yes, there are exceptions. There are always exceptions. But as I said elsewhere, stereotypes exist for a reason.

Earlier today my phone displays a notification that I have four voicemails.  No missed calls, just four voicemails.  That is odd, I figured the car warranty calls were blocked but they still managed to leave a voice mail.  I wait around until lunch to go through the voicemails and delete them.  Only one message was from today, the other three messages were days or weeks old.  Two from my car insurance company, one from the doctor's office.  The last voice message, from today, was about my car's warranty.

WTF.

I had wrote a long post that wandered further off-topic into the subject of driving... 

But "push their way in your face" is a very subjective thing in my experience. 

As an example, some people believe that as long as they're doing the speed limit, they shouldn't have to "yield right" from the fast/passing lane if YOU are speeding. 

Often those people are very irritated if you're in a car where you can ride their bumper but be two car lengths behind them if they TRY to brake check you - then right back on their bumper if they try to accelerate away. They get irritated if you're able to quickly dart around them and punch it and pass on the inside. 

And as a society - there seem to be two thoughts on which behavior is the "in your face" behavior. 

A lot of people think the aggressive driver is the one blinking high beams, riding bumpers, and ripping around on the inside lane at the first opportunity to overtake the slower but legal traffic that wo

Tue Apr 13 2021 11:57:49 EDT from Nurb432

 or if they push their 'way' in your face. 

Tue Apr 13 2021 11:34:26 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

 

 

 

I would not put it past him. It is Gates afterall :)  

But i agree, you ( at least you should not ) hate a person due to wealth, or fame, color, preference, music tastes, or whatever.  Should hate them for what kind of person they are or if they push their 'way' in your face. 

Tue Apr 13 2021 11:34:26 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

 Bill Gates isn't going to turn you into your HOA because he is pissed about the weeds in your flower beds. 

 

By definition - there are way more a-holes by volume among the REST of the 99% than among the 1%. 

You may have an argument that per capita, there is a higher concentration of a-holes among the 1% than the other segments of society, though. Still... if the entire BODY of the 1% were a-holes... it would still be a fraction of the number of a-holes distributed throughout the REST of society. 

Regular people are, thus it follows - the biggest problem in society. Which makes the disproportionate focus on the small number of super wealthy curious. 

Why hate them with such passion then, when your neighbor in the cul-de-sac is far more likely to do something that is completely disruptive to your life personally, than say, Sir Richard Branson? 

 Bill Gates isn't going to turn you into your HOA because he is pissed about the weeds in your flower beds. 

Tue Apr 13 2021 07:47:22 EDT from Nurb432

To me the negative label of 1% is not the 1% of wealth.  Its the rich people who are jerks getting/being there.  One can be super wealthy and still not be an evil Jerk.      While i know its a comic, but an example of being super wealthy but not being a 1% would be someone like Bruce Wayne.  There are many out there, just never hear of them.

I agree class warfare is bad.  But calling out 'a-holes', is ok to me.

To me the negative label of 1% is not the 1% of wealth.  Its the rich people who are jerks getting/being there.  One can be super wealthy and still not be an evil Jerk.      While i know its a comic, but an example of being super wealthy but not being a 1% would be someone like Bruce Wayne.  There are many out there, just never hear of them.

I agree class warfare is bad.  But calling out 'a-holes', is ok to me.

Ok... you know what, real talk... 

I have a friend who has a C06 Vette that is now the third fastest "production" Vette in the *world*. It has a parachute on the back of it. It is still technically street legal, as long as he takes the chute off - but it can't *really* be driven on the street anymore. So he bought a Mclaren. Yet, he drives his F350 Platinum to work - because people don't see a $85,000 truck as a "luxury vehicle". 

I just bought a 2020 M4 with ~1000 miles on it. It has the executive and platinum package. It does a little under 176 mph top end. But I drive my 2500 Denali to work - or sometimes my 1997 Z3 if I'm feeling fancy. Same reason. Both of us were in serious trouble all through high school and as young adults - we don't have very serious formal educations... we know what it is like to have ONLY Government cheese and water in the garage between the 1st and the 15th... 

This class warfare that is being pushed that perpetuates the idea that the wealth

 
My loyalty is to my own best interests. The more I help myself - the more it helps other people around me. But it isn't my job to see that they leverage the opportunities that creates. It is THEIR job to see opportunity and capitalize on it. If they don't, it isn't my job to pick them up and point them in the right direction. 

I'm not bitter that my friend can afford a Mclaren and I can only afford a relatively common M4. I'm thankful that out of the entire world's population, I'm part of the VERY SMALL segment that can actually afford a motorized vehicle of ANY sort. I'm not bitter about what other people have that I can't afford. I don't know what they had to sacrifice to get there. I'm happy with what I have, and I know the price I paid is more than the dollar amount that other people see. 

There are a lot of bad people with a lot of money - there are a lot of bad people with NO money. Most people are just people trying to get through life - some having better fortune do ]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Mobile%20Madness?start_reading_at=2099260002Tue, 13 Apr 2021 05:22:26 -00002099260002@Uncensored

I mean they. They'll likely be largely outnumbered by... 

Tue Apr 13 2021 01:21:44 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

We'll likely be largely outnumbered by the huge mass of the rest of the 99% joining us there, though... so, at least we won't be lonely. 

 

Mon Apr 12 2021 16:43:44 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I suspect that most of the 1% will rot in hell for all eternity so I don't consider their temporary level of luxury to constitute a life that is better than mine.

 

We'll likely be largely outnumbered by the huge mass of the rest of the 99% joining us there, though... so, at least we won't be lonely. 

Mon Apr 12 2021 16:43:44 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I suspect that most of the 1% will rot in hell for all eternity so I don't consider their temporary level of luxury to constitute a life that is better than mine.

Those of us who dont believe in afterlife, dont really believe in karma either.  Which is too bad, they deserve to rot for an eternity. They earned it. 

Mon Apr 12 2021 16:43:44 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

I suspect that most of the 1% will rot in hell for all eternity so I don't consider their temporary level of luxury to constitute a life that is better than mine.

So... here is what I know. Most executives today work from home - and have figured out that this means they can get a nice luxury RV and work from ANYWHERE as long as they can get phone and internet service. 

There is *something* they all swear by - but, not being an executive, I haven't paid a lot of attention to it. But it is probably the canary in the coal mine. If these people find it reliable and fast enough to work remotely while sitting in a Prevost A-Class in the middle of Alaska - there is *something* good out there. 

But - it is also likely that if you're not an executive or a successful entrepreneur - we're priced out of it. 

I can probably find out more about it - if you really want to know how much better the lives of the 1% are than our own. 

So the story of the military base...

We had a credit union on a semi-local base that we serviced.  One of our guys was there working with one of our users and from across the room one of the tellers "hey, is the network down".  We didnt support that, it was a T1 to the building that we didn't even use, as our stuff used a dinky dialup line to check for loan approvals and such. ( this was mid 90s ). The tellers used the T1 back to a mainframe somewhere. Not our stuff. The company we worked for sold PMI insurance, and there was sooo much profit they gave away computers, servers and us..

From what i hear, by the time the guy checked and said 'ya, its down' helicopters showed up outside the building and people were repelling into the 2nd floor windows that they had kicked in.  Everyone hit the floor. 

I guess the alarm went off on the other side in DC or something, and instead of just having security drive over about a mile and check, they sent in the seal team.. Fun times :) 

The other place i mentioned, was an investment firm with branches all over the country in every little town imaginable.  They had a communications cabinet, hooked to hughesnet  that you had to call in to have them open remotely. They still used dumb terminals. Taht we had to rpair on site. Cant take anything away to the shop. If you tried opening the ( unlocked.. ) cabinet before calling, it would set the alarm off and cops would be visiting.  If you show up 5 minutes early from your allocated time, cops were called.  If you showed up 5 mins late, same thing. I was a contractor in that case, and was not allowed to tell them who i worked for, or leave any paperwork. Oh, and you had to call again before you left even if the end user was cool with what took place.

True, but star-link is a different beast than the satellite we all grew up with.  I tend to forget about it, as i have not seen it in person yet, in real life so to speak. It all looks good on paper.

And i agree if all you want to do is spit out a few bits of data to corporate ( like sales or price checks ), things like HugesNet was ok. But for the average consumer, no. ( is there anyone left but them now? not been in that world for a long time.  I used to service investment firms, who had their offices connected like that.  With an alarmed data cabinet. Fun stuff.  Remind me to tell a story about a branch at a military base.. THAT was fun. Glad i wasn't there when it happened. 

Sun Apr 04 2021 06:27:29 EDT from zooer

 

Wed Mar 31 2021 05:40:12 PM EDT from Nurb432

Its been my experience that home satellite sucks. 

Mon Mar 29 2021 08:32:42 EDT from darknetuser

Datacaps are the real killers of cell based home connections, at least for me. I get the appeal for rural areas where nobody is going to deploy a wire, but even for that there are better options imo.

 

 

One of the places I worked used satellite modems for some installations, and it was find for our normal day-to-day operations, for updates and major data transfer it was awful and HugesNet did throttle us. 

If you search youtube for StarLink the data transfer speeds and latency time are supposed to be very good.   StarLink is expensive, but if you are in the middle of no where it is a good option.

Wed Mar 31 2021 05:40:12 PM EDT from Nurb432

Its been my experience that home satellite sucks. 

Mon Mar 29 2021 08:32:42 EDT from darknetuser

Datacaps are the real killers of cell based home connections, at least for me. I get the appeal for rural areas where nobody is going to deploy a wire, but even for that there are better options imo.

 

One of the places I worked used satellite modems for some installations, and it was find for our normal day-to-day operations, for updates and major data transfer it was awful and HugesNet did throttle us. 

If you search youtube for StarLink the data transfer speeds and latency time are supposed to be very good.   StarLink is expensive, but if you are in the middle of no where it is a good option.

So today i caved and installed android. 

Glodroid specifically..  Apparently they are not to the point of using cell modems.  But WiFi does work.  Its also a work in progress, so they will get there. 

Now its more like just 'yet another low end smart-phone' but its de-googled and de-carriered, for the paranoid.

XM/Sirius used to give you a 6 month subscription for $5 - then extend that until you forgot - then you would get a bill for $200 for *radio* in your *car*. 

And it is useless on real cloudy and rainy days, or on heavily tree lined drives. Total line-of-site technology.  

Thu Apr 01 2021 09:28:32 EDT from Nurb432

Never even thought of that.  my cars are not fancy enough.  One of them does not have power steering, tho it does have power windows. The other, has manual windows, but has power steering :) ( people with electric windows in a jeep.. wtf )

Wives car, which is modern, i assume has all that crap. I avoid her car unless i'm taking it for an oil change or something ( bastards, you *have* to go to the dealer and pay more or they void your warranty )

Wed Mar 31 2021 23:51:53 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

It isn't my favorite thing in the car, either. 

 

Wed Mar 31 2021 17:40:12 EDT from Nurb432

Its been my experience that home satellite sucks. 

Mon Mar 29 2021 08:32:42 EDT from darknetuser

Datacaps are the real killers of cell based home connections, at least for me. I get the appeal for rural areas where nobody is going to deploy a wire, but even for that there are better options imo.

 

 

 

Never even thought of that.  my cars are not fancy enough.  One of them does not have power steering, tho it does have power windows. The other, has manual windows, but has power steering :) ( people with electric windows in a jeep.. wtf )

Wives car, which is modern, i assume has all that crap. I avoid her car unless i'm taking it for an oil change or something ( bastards, you *have* to go to the dealer and pay more or they void your warranty )

Wed Mar 31 2021 23:51:53 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

It isn't my favorite thing in the car, either. 

 

Wed Mar 31 2021 17:40:12 EDT from Nurb432

Its been my experience that home satellite sucks. 

Mon Mar 29 2021 08:32:42 EDT from darknetuser

Datacaps are the real killers of cell based home connections, at least for me. I get the appeal for rural areas where nobody is going to deploy a wire, but even for that there are better options imo.

 

 

It isn't my favorite thing in the car, either. 

Wed Mar 31 2021 17:40:12 EDT from Nurb432

Its been my experience that home satellite sucks. 

Mon Mar 29 2021 08:32:42 EDT from darknetuser

Datacaps are the real killers of cell based home connections, at least for me. I get the appeal for rural areas where nobody is going to deploy a wire, but even for that there are better options imo.

 

Its been my experience that home satellite sucks. 

Mon Mar 29 2021 08:32:42 EDT from darknetuser

Datacaps are the real killers of cell based home connections, at least for me. I get the appeal for rural areas where nobody is going to deploy a wire, but even for that there are better options imo.

Since its available here and i have it, Id rather keep my fiber as well. If i was still out in the sticks, i might feel differently.  ( tho i might end up with starlink if i was that far out still )

I think they would need to work on the way they charge, as we get unlimited use. On cable we got "ludicrous use" for home lines ( 2TB/month ), unlimited for business. If they try the typical for phone carrier "you get x gig then you pay thru the nose" i doubt it will make a dent. 

Sat Mar 27 2021 12:49:13 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Anyone thinking about fixed wireless? Seems like the carriers are all trying to position themselves to deliver home internet access using 5G. I have no interest in it here, because I have a lovely piece of fiber optic cable running directly into my home, but I am finding it interesting to see a potential change in the industry again. Between 5G services and LEO satellite services, things could get fun. Maybe it'll even drive prices down again.

They probably expect to distribute all-in-one routers that have 5G and WiFi radios, and you put it somewhere in your home that has good reception. If I had to do that I would probably go the extra mile and put a nice antenna on the roof, or even on a dedicated tower (because I'm a nerd).

Yup. 100%

And often times, they would buy out competition with lesser resoruces, then ruin it the same way, or just cancel it outright. ( Truespace anyone? )

Mon Mar 15 2021 09:27:34 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

You guys know that Exchange, Outlook, Sharepoint, PowerPoint, Word, Access, Excel and Windows CE (later mobile) along with One Drive have been offering these kinds of feature and functionality since around 2001? 

And others since around 1992 or so.  Micro$oft didn't invent or even perfect any of that stuff.  They just forced their shitty versions into first place by leveraging their monopoly.  Everything since then has just been truckloads of lipstick on the pig.

You guys know that Exchange, Outlook, Sharepoint, PowerPoint, Word, Access, Excel and Windows CE (later mobile) along with One Drive have been offering these kinds of feature and functionality since around 2001? 

And others since around 1992 or so.  Micro$oft didn't invent or even perfect any of that stuff.  They just forced their shitty versions into first place by leveraging their monopoly.  Everything since then has just been truckloads of lipstick on the pig.

Yes i do remember that too.

My ST, on a BBS it was no different than on my 800...  or later on a PC using the emulator in Framework. ( loved that package really.  That + desQview , later desQviewX  was a wonderful thing )

Sun Mar 14 2021 00:21:06 EST from ParanoidDelusions

We were recently talking about how mobile devices have really become portable social media devices - and the other, more promising things they can be used for are what they spend the minority of time doing. 


But I just loaded a bunch of period appropriate (early 80s to late 80s) Mp3s on my Vampire 4 FPGA Amiga - and as they're sitting here playing - I had a very specific memory of that time - being frustrated that despite all the promising things the Amiga could do, I spent the most of my time in a terminal mode session connected to BBSes on my Amiga 2000 - which was essentially no different of an experience on the Amiga than on the C-128 or my MIC-504 with an ADDS Viewpoint terminal. 

Which just struck me as kind of ironic. 

It really hasn't changed *that* much. The devices are smaller and more powerful - but their primary role is as communication devices. 

 

We were recently talking about how mobile devices have really become portable social media devices - and the other, more promising things they can be used for are what they spend the minority of time doing. 


But I just loaded a bunch of period appropriate (early 80s to late 80s) Mp3s on my Vampire 4 FPGA Amiga - and as they're sitting here playing - I had a very specific memory of that time - being frustrated that despite all the promising things the Amiga could do, I spent the most of my time in a terminal mode session connected to BBSes on my Amiga 2000 - which was essentially no different of an experience on the Amiga than on the C-128 or my MIC-504 with an ADDS Viewpoint terminal. 

Which just struck me as kind of ironic. 

It really hasn't changed *that* much. The devices are smaller and more powerful - but their primary role is as communication devices. 

We have similar problems. 

Sometimes they can work around tit due to various compliance certs ( like fedramp ), and app changes to prevent data leakage.  Other times, its just a hard stop and they cant leave the premise. 

Sat Mar 13 2021 17:16:47 EST from darknetuser

Specially because some of those informations my require explicit authorization by a govenrment agency to be shared with, say, a Microsoft operated service.

I knew, and know. But i dont have to like it :).   

Reason they were further ahead than oss, and pushed competition out of the way ( like lotus/IBM ) was they had a virtual monopoly due to their immoral business practices, so they could spend more money. And of course force feed business their garbage.  it wasn't that they offered better solutions.  I would have preferred OS/2, note, smartsuite, etc over anything MS put out any day, if i had to stay commercial.

They could have been good 'citizens' but chose not to.

Fri Mar 12 2021 14:24:54 EST from ParanoidDelusions

You guys know that Exchange, Outlook, Sharepoint, PowerPoint, Word, Access, Excel and Windows CE (later mobile) along with One Drive have been offering these kinds of feature and functionality since around 2001? 

It always amazes me that *nix people have no idea of how *dominant* Microsoft was in the "back office" and why - how far ahead of FOSS they were. It is like you guys totally missed the Fortune 500 corporate work-flow.

Most really big companies use Exchange - it is an incredibly powerful, scalable corporate enterprise e-mail solution. 

I honestly think that *nix people don't realize how pervasive it is, because they have mostly worked in *nix shops. 

 

You guys know that Exchange, Outlook, Sharepoint, PowerPoint, Word, Access, Excel and Windows CE (later mobile) along with One Drive have been offering these kinds of feature and functionality since around 2001? 

It always amazes me that *nix people have no idea of how *dominant* Microsoft was in the "back office" and why - how far ahead of FOSS they were. It is like you guys totally missed the Fortune 500 corporate work-flow.

Most really big companies use Exchange - it is an incredibly powerful, scalable corporate enterprise e-mail solution. 

I honestly think that *nix people don't realize how pervasive it is, because they have mostly worked in *nix shops. 

Wed Mar 10 2021 14:19:56 EST from darknetuser

 

 

Calendars make a lot of sense in portable devices for firms and enterprise users.

Somewhere I work I set a calendar service so a certain group of employees always have access to the meeting schedules of the week. It is very convenient because if one of them wants to reserve a room for a certain hour they can just anotate it in the calendar from the smartphone, and it will synchronize and show up in everybody's phone.

Same with cancellations.

Yeah. I do use it for almost all of those purposes. 

I guess those just aren't very fun, engaging or necessarily *frequent* uses of the device. 

I also take EKGs with mine. 

Wed Mar 10 2021 13:42:06 EST from Nurb432

Really that has always been the case of a phone. Even from the beginning, just that the underlying methods have morphed and (d)evolved over the decades ( like e-mail, video. ).

 

But that said, if you remove all the social aspect of the device, i still have use for mine. 

• Mobile music. I have had that since i was a child in grade school, thru all sorts of iterations over the years. Other than this last year at home, its my primary music source.
• Camera.   Sure its not as good as my real camera, but its with me all the time. 
• GPS/maps. I dont travel or trail running these days, but it was a great thing to have.
• security . monitoring my home cameras and water detection units.
• Remote control. I have IR on mine, so it runs my TV/video player/stereo/etc
• Weather ( at least during spring.. tornado alley )
• Car diagnostics ( Bluetooth to ODB adapter )

So not totally useless, at least for me

Wed Mar 10 2021 01:50:51 EST from ParanoidDelusions

They're portable Social Media devices, at this point. 

I forgot calendar.. oops. 

Really that has always been the case of a phone. Even from the beginning, just that the underlying methods have morphed and (d)evolved over the decades ( like e-mail, video. ).

But that said, if you remove all the social aspect of the device, i still have use for mine. 

• Mobile music. I have had that since i was a child in grade school, thru all sorts of iterations over the years. Other than this last year at home, its my primary music source.
• Camera.   Sure its not as good as my real camera, but its with me all the time. 
• GPS/maps. I dont travel or trail running these days, but it was a great thing to have.
• security . monitoring my home cameras and water detection units.
• Remote control. I have IR on mine, so it runs my TV/video player/stereo/etc
• Weather ( at least during spring.. tornado alley )
• Car diagnostics ( Bluetooth to ODB adapter )

Wed Mar 10 2021 01:50:51 EST from ParanoidDelusions

They're portable Social Media devices, at this point. 

Wed Mar 10 2021 01:50:51 AM EST from ParanoidDelusions

My problem with these devices is, once I quit social media, I find that there isn't a LOT I *want* to do with them on a day to day basis. 
They're portable Social Media devices, at this point. 

I don't have social media accounts.  The one thing I like about a smartphone is the calendar.  But I would rather go back to carrying around a day planner.  When I write something into a day planner I remember it, when I type it into the online calendar I don't remember it.  (or maybe I am getting old)

On rare occasions I use maps, but a stand-alone GPS would be fine. 

I could go back to text messages and wait until I get home for an email.

One thing my family likes is the Viber messaging app.  The family seems to use that frequently for keeping in touch, sending pictures and videos.

Wasn't webcitNG going to be 'responsive'? 

( i hate that term btw )

My problem with these devices is, once I quit social media, I find that there isn't a LOT I *want* to do with them on a day to day basis. 

They're portable Social Media devices, at this point. 

I mean, mine has an app that aligns my telescope to the stars so I can find Orion's nebula - and that is nifty. I can control my lawn and my pool and my plugs and my locks with it... which is good and bad, in some cases. There are probably some other useful things I use it for. Music streaming and GPS when I'm travelling. 

And I've got a ton of retro-platforms loaded on it - that I occasionally use to pass time. 

I wish it had a good WebCit mobile front end. 

Tue Mar 02 2021 19:38:22 EST from Nurb432

Now that i have a distribution that seems usable that is on my agenda. "what can i do"

 

Currently it can make/take calls ( if i shove in a sim ) and txt message. Has a web browser so you can get to any of the main tools that Google, Microsoft, etc. have without needing an app anyway. Does have local apps for things like calendar, notes, telegram ( im sure more, that is just what is there now on the screen, my interest next is going to be jabber ) Unsure what it does yet, but it has 'account logins' for own/next cloud and google.  I killed off my test nextcloud so cant connect to it, but i suspect that is the route to go with these things and not google. The google one errors, i need to see what the error actually means tomorrow when i have some free time ( and what it does give me when i do get it connected ).  Didn't see an email app, but must be there somewhere. But, lots of web mail is responsive to screen size these days anyway.  Oh, its got music picture gallery and video too.  ( not tested any of that yet, but its there ).  Weather picked up my location via GPS, so in theory any w

Of course this is just one Linux distro, others would be different.   There is still android ( AOSP ) and a webOS variant for non-Linux options. 

In theory while its true you dont have the google/apple stores, you do have access to bazillions of packages for Linux.. Just some may not do well on the small screen. 

 

Tue Mar 02 2021 19:03:41 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

So what can you *do* with it? Is a smartphone usable without either of the big app ecosystems?

 

I didnt get around to setting up a nextcloud server but i did mess with the device more.

Overall verdict is that unless you are a true techie and are ok with short term limitations to get out of the other ecosystems ( or security paranoid ), its not ready yet.  Basics are there, phone, sms, music, video, calendar, web, etc. as mobile formatted apps.  But not tons.  I do see that changing little by little as more of these sorts of devices become availble ( i think there are 3 now, this was not the first ).  Gotta start somewhere.

Sure, everything you might ever want is availble via a Debian package, but many things just dont work on such a small screen.  The mobile apps available ( kde based stuff. ill stick with that ) work, *if* you need specialized apps that only exist on a mobile platform you might be hurting. 

I did try various web alternatives to native apps i have, outlook, teams, jitsi, etc and they all seemed to work so its not like you are screwed. So many platforms now support either reformatted for small screens or that "responsive" thing so a lot fo stuff we use, you dont really need a native app.  It needs data anyway.. so its a wash in those cases i think. If you are tied to Apple that may not work, i have noting to test for them.  Google stuff, is good enough to get by. 

Battery life is still a bit low, i left it running all day ( sleep ) and it was about 60%.  Unsure why it was so bad the other day, but i did get 2 system updates since then. 

Not yet tried it as a mobile desktop you can stick into a docking station, but may not bother since the speed is so low.  I have seen others do it so i suspect it would work fine, including regular desktop apps. 

The google sync thing, just for drive via "KDE Online"

I guess ill spin up a test nextcloud this weekend and see what that does.

As expected many apps dont do well with portrait mode since they are still desktop apps, but many are doing surprisingly well with landscape. Just small.

Ok one huge issue : Battery life.  ( and level detection ). It sucks juice like no tomorrow.   Both mine and that friend's ( hes still on Mobian ).  OS Bloat (TM) must be doing it 

Now that i have a distribution that seems usable that is on my agenda. "what can i do"

Currently it can make/take calls ( if i shove in a sim ) and txt message. Has a web browser so you can get to any of the main tools that Google, Microsoft, etc. have without needing an app anyway. Does have local apps for things like calendar, notes, telegram ( im sure more, that is just what is there now on the screen, my interest next is going to be jabber ) Unsure what it does yet, but it has 'account logins' for own/next cloud and google.  I killed off my test nextcloud so cant connect to it, but i suspect that is the route to go with these things and not google. The google one errors, i need to see what the error actually means tomorrow when i have some free time ( and what it does give me when i do get it connected ).  Didn't see an email app, but must be there somewhere. But, lots of web mail is responsive to screen size these days anyway.  Oh, its got music picture gallery and video too.  ( not tested any of that yet, but its there ).  Weather picked up my location via GPS, so in theory any w

Of course this is just one Linux distro, others would be different.   There is still android ( AOSP ) and a webOS variant for non-Linux options. 

In theory while its true you dont have the google/apple stores, you do have access to bazillions of packages for Linux.. Just some may not do well on the small screen. 

Tue Mar 02 2021 19:03:41 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

So what can you *do* with it? Is a smartphone usable without either of the big app ecosystems?

Mobian, gone. As much as i wanted 'Debian for mobile' just didnt work out. Now trying another OS.

One thing to note: this is an ARM board, so its really finicky about your boot images. If they are not 100%, it wont even power up with an error ( other than on the debug port ).  So, you didnt kill your device, its just a bad image. And i have run into several of them today.  Resorted to the 'factory manjaro' image, after i blew up Mobian trying something else.

The 17 in one has 'jump drive' as one of the options. It mounts the eMMC as a drive on your PC so you can use tools like etcher to flash.     Else you are stuck trying to DD from the SD card over after you boot into an OS on SD.  Doable but a pain.

More to come over the next few days but my first out of box impressions:

Seems solid enough physically. Nice to have a back that can come off and replace the battery with no fuss.  neat it has hardware switches to turn things off like the cameras or radios.. For you security paranoids. 

Its a Allwinner A64, and man can you tell. Its pokey.  Now, keeping in mind its a 200 dollar phone, its not THAT bad, but coming from a high end device like i normally use, you can feel it.  Some of this may be due to 'raw' Linux and what really are desktop graphic libraries. I need to try android for a fair comparison, perhaps this weekend.  I suspect the eMMC is slow too as load times are dismal on apps. Just a feeling. not tested that theory yet. My typical test video from YT @720p did ok however so i suspect GPU is enabled. ( being a Mali 400, mature OSS drivers are around )

Didn't notice at the time i ordered but its WiFi is a Realtek RTL8723CS, which means only 2.6G.  Was wondering why it didnt see my 5G SSID. that is why.

Mobian. well, as i expected, its clunky. Some of the apps really are not meant for a phone screen. An example i tried from its store was Calibre.. and ya, it was not formatted for the smaller screen.  This should improve over time tho.  Launcher, eh, nothing special, and it works. Just a bit odd coming from android. Going to try that 17-in-one boot this weekend. try a few others. Im sure each will have its strong and weak points.

It did recognize a HDMI video monitor via USBc, but as of yet not sure how to make it do something with it.. Status bar said 'docked' but didnt do anything for me.. For now its just a pretty background image. Mouse worked too. One of my thoughts was "carry it all day, get home stick it on a dock and you have a real machine with desktop apps".   Might work in principle, but speed would be a factor.

Not yet tried cell service, but i dont see why that would be a problem.

BT and some music may be tomorrow. 

Its clearly still a work in progress but so far its not 'unusable' just some compromises.  

Whoohoo its here.

All i can say so far is it was packaged professionally.  Not hat i'm a fan of unboxing videos, but its nice to see they care and didnt just toss it in some cardboard box and wish for the best.

Going to load the default mobian and see what it does.  I guess there is a 17-in-one multi boot image too, to try out various interfaces and apps ( distributions ). 

Fri Feb 26 2021 17:08:02 EST from Nurb432

Uncool. Friend of mine ordered one a couple of days after mine. his arrived today. 

 

Mine must still be on a bench with a JTAG attached to a laptop, so they can install their spyware. 

Uncool. Friend of mine ordered one a couple of days after mine. his arrived today. 

Mine must still be on a bench with a JTAG attached to a laptop, so they can install their spyware. 

That sucks. 

Fri Feb 26 2021 11:06:40 EST from Nurb432

Or not.  Customs just ate it.  "On hold"

 

Thu Feb 25 2021 12:21:41 EST from Nurb432

whohooo pinephone ETA Monday. 

 

My understanding is it can do that now if you want to talk to people. But who does that? :)  its the 'smart phone' pieces that are in-flight.  Sure, not all the software is 'ready for prime time general use' but its close, and they are functional. Just not "optimal" ( at least that is what i read.. we will find out soon ).  Biggest issue is the conversion of some 'desktop apps' to a phone screen format is not trivial, not that they dont exist.. 

i love my Pinebook Pro.    Other than that damned iSO keyboard.   I got mine early on, 3rd batch of pre-orders, before they had ansi keyboard option.   As i have other desktop and server devices with that chip I was thrilled to have a RK3399 based laptop, that wasn't a Chromebook.   Tho ironically, now that you can run Linux under chromeOS without having to 'screw' with it, my RK3399 Chromebook gets used more, due to its flip around screen.  It has all 3 worlds: Linux, ChromeOS, and Android...  Just tight on intenral eMMC.

Oh if you get a PPro, and want to use a m.2, watch what you get. Some dont fit in the case very well due to thickness. They 'fit' but the case is a bit under stress, not a good thing. instead of expensive trial and error, i just pulled that back out and got a larger eMMC instead. 

Fri Feb 26 2021 14:43:27 EST from nonservator

The Pinebook Pro doesn't look bad, but aren't they still working on making the phone actually able to be used for phone calls?

The Pinebook Pro doesn't look bad, but aren't they still working on making the phone actually able to be used for phone calls?

Or not.  Customs just ate it.  "On hold"

Thu Feb 25 2021 12:21:41 EST from Nurb432

whohooo pinephone ETA Monday. 

whohooo pinephone ETA Monday. 

I do hope you are right.  But i keep seeing commercial encroachment/entrapment and infection. And attacks from the likes of oracle on the fundamentals.

My nature is to always see the dark side of things.  Most of the time i'm unfortunately, right. . but sometimes i hope i'm wrong.

If he's the new leader, then the movement is over.

I guess i should have included that in my question 'people worthy enough to pick up mjolnir'. 

Sat Feb 20 2021 21:19:07 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Of course. Some of them are names you already know. For example, Lennart Poettering is generally agreed to be the up and coming Grand Poohbah of Everything.

I wonder what happens in a few years when all these key ( for better or worse ) people are gone.  Are there really any new ones coming up the ranks or is the movement over once the this batch dies out?

And then we have Theo De Raadt

I think there is a pattern here :) 

Wed Feb 17 2021 17:19:44 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Linus is kind of an asshole too, but most of the time he gets things done.

Case and screen protector came just now.   At least its a good sign.

Wed Feb 17 2021 17:24:01 EST from Nurb432

Still waiting on my pinephone..   i think its coming via carrier pigeon. 

Still waiting on my pinephone..   i think its coming via carrier pigeon. 

Linus has his moments too.

Just not as many. 

Wed Feb 17 2021 09:19:54 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

There's a small number of people who are wired in a way that his rhetoric appeals to them. Beyond that, he's an unmitigated disaster. Boycotting the entire world and having autistic tantrums when you don't get your way doesn't really sell well to the rest of the people.

There's probably some bitterness in there too. It was Stallman who first envisioned the idea of an entire operating system made up of 100% open source software, but Linus Torvalds got most of the credit for that. Part of that is his own fault, though, since he was unflexible and difficult to work with, while Linus was chill and just put together whatever worked.

And in the end, isn't that what we want? Everyone working together? I think Stallman lost the plot somewhere along the line, and now he is living his sunset years as a bitter old lunatic who is the butt of everyone's jokes.

:)

Sun Feb 14 2021 13:12:01 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

I'm not really concerned about that. He is a fellow human being and I wish him a healthy and well-fed existence. On the other hand, he is a colossal asshole and I really wish people would stop mistaking him for an open source luminary. His time has come and gone.

Did some reading about it the other day, and he was making decent money off speeches and got a few grants. It all went into the bank. You don't have to worry about him, he isn't going hungry, unless he doesn't want to eat since it violates some moral code or something this week.

Sat Feb 13 2021 05:34:16 EST from darknetuser

I have often been wondering this myself.

I bet he is living off the stock investments he made while he was making money as an FSF representative.

I dont think that counts as 'people'.    Most introverts have their ( tiny ) circle of friends.    Even the hooker suggestion above, you are choosing when to have them in your bubble, and is not like being tossed in the middle of an office with a bunch of panicked people you dont even know " our stuff is broke ... heeellllppp" .  Or endless meetings as you move up the ladder.   ( i'm thankful i'm no longer a manager. i turned it down at least 2x where im at now.. "thank you, but i like what i'm doing" )

Don't get me wrong, i have worked with a lot of good people over the decades ( both fellow employees or customers when i was contacting ) and have done a lot of good for people, but it would be nice to not have to do it that way. This last year or so, not having to do it in person has been great.  

Sat Feb 13 2021 07:22:01 EST from zooer

There are a lot of truck teams that are spouses. One drives, the other sleeps or is in break mode. 

Actually, for a while working on an assembly line in one of the big 3 looked appealing.  Decent money, sit there at your station and do stuff for 8 or 10 hours.  Then go home and dont have to worry about being called back in at 1 am due to network problems on the 2nd shift or something. 

Sat Feb 13 2021 00:34:01 EST from arabella

 

Fri Feb 12 2021 02:42:39 PM EST from Nurb432

Funny thing is, when i got into IT as a career, aside from being my hobby, i figured it would be low-person-contact career.

Of course it was the early days, and things have changed over time, but how wrong i was is amazing.. I think at times, we are more out there with people than many other career options.

Trucking.

You'll wanna be alone most of the time?

Be a Trucker

There are a lot of truck teams that are spouses. One drives, the other sleeps or is in break mode. 

Truckers are hardly ever alone. They almost always have a hooker or hitchhiker tied up in the living area behind the cab. 

Sorry for being honest. 

Sat Feb 13 2021 00:34:01 EST from arabella

 

Fri Feb 12 2021 02:42:39 PM EST from Nurb432

Funny thing is, when i got into IT as a career, aside from being my hobby, i figured it would be low-person-contact career.

Of course it was the early days, and things have changed over time, but how wrong i was is amazing.. I think at times, we are more out there with people than many other career options.

Trucking.

You'll wanna be alone most of the time?

Be a Trucker

Fri Feb 12 2021 02:42:39 PM EST from Nurb432

Funny thing is, when i got into IT as a career, aside from being my hobby, i figured it would be low-person-contact career.

Of course it was the early days, and things have changed over time, but how wrong i was is amazing.. I think at times, we are more out there with people than many other career options.

Trucking.

You'll wanna be alone most of the time?

Be a Trucker

Funny thing is, when i got into IT as a career, aside from being my hobby, i figured it would be low-person-contact career.

Of course it was the early days, and things have changed over time, but how wrong i was is amazing.. I think at times, we are more out there with people than many other career options.

Blaming it on one person seems hyperbolic. This attitude is pervasive in the FOSS community. Not just Linux - and not just FOSS - but FOSS in particular. The brilliant guys who develop both MiSTer and Vampire are both abrasive with terrible social skills and no sense of being customer oriented. 

Everyone in IT who isn't a developer knows that you need some kind of marketing/sales/service team between the guys who develop and engineer and architect and regular people - *throughout* the industry. 

"Socially maladjusted" is just a synonym for "The IT Department." 

Sun Feb 07 2021 13:33:29 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Would we be here today without people like that willing to get in
your face and tell it like it is, consequences be dammed? I donno.

Eric Raymond (who seems to be MIA since last September) once pointed out that Stallman's initial work on things like GCC may have helped to bootstrap the open source universe, but that his abrasive rhetoric probably held its mainstream emergence back by at least a decade.

He has a tweet in late December. 

Sun Feb 07 2021 13:33:29 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Eric Raymond (who seems to be MIA since last September) 

In case it wasn't clear, i also am not a fan of him personally, as he is a nut job. But i do agree, he had the vision that others made happen.  Could it all have have happened anyway and someone have stepped up at some point? Perhaps, but he did get the current ball rolling and his 'i dont care' outspoken ( and controversial ) nature was instrumental to the forming of the movement that we did get, and benefit from every day..

I think if he had got it moving, waved his flag a bit to get everyone heading the same direction, then got the hell out of the way, history would be a lot kinder to him.

Emotions are for the weak.

Just ask any Vulcan. 

I think we think of it as a "condition," that makes it hard to function and fit in to normal society. 

But, I think it may also be a specialized adaptation that in many cases is a superior evolution in human evolution and is frequently responsible for great leaps forward in the human condition overall. They see things and do things a normal person never would - because they're less burdened by GAF what a normal person thinks about that. Less unconscious dishonesty about things that are evident but not spoken of. 

Sun Feb 07 2021 11:22:21 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Would be my guess, anyhow. 

 

 

 

I think non-aspies don't understand that aspies generally DGAF what people think of them. Or at least, not much, and not for long. 

It is why the condition survives. A "normie" would surely commit suicide, I think - but if you're high-functioning - you just don't *understand*, but you don't feel the same emotions about it a "normie" would feel - and you learn to fake it if you can so you fit in. 

Would be my guess, anyhow. 

Sun Feb 07 2021 10:33:02 EST from LoanShark

wasted it.  He may a bit 'out there', but hes often right at the
core, in his own strange way.  His biggest problem is zero filter
and sometimes picking the wrong battle.

His biggest problem is that he's clearly a dyed-in-the-wool Aspie with a completely inflexible mindset. This mindset has driven him to do some great things, but I suspect it's been an overall negative for his quality of life.

You're quite possibly right about the speaking fees just going straight to the bank. I suspect he has lived a simple life and doesn't spend much, because he's not interested in much outside of his core obsessions. This is the guy who slept on a cot in the CSAIL centre for years. He doesn't want much.

Looks like hes still doing events. Has one this week

https://stallman.org/index.html

I suspect he was saving up during his life, knowing the gravy train wont last forever.  I am sure he amassed a small fortune for speaking, etc. over the decades  He's not stupid and i doubt he wasted it.  He may a bit 'out there', but hes often right at the core, in his own strange way.  His biggest problem is zero filter and sometimes picking the wrong battle.

Would we be here today without people like that willing to get in your face and tell it like it is, consequences be dammed? I donno.

Sat Feb 06 2021 10:57:19 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

I wonder if there's anyone left who still thinks anything of Stallman. Open source people don't like him because he's a lunatic. Technolibertarians don't like him because he's a commie. SJW's don't like him because he did something or said something or something.

Quite frankly I don't even understand how he manages to continue existing, when he doesn't have a job and seems to have boycotted everything in the world.

Who would certify it? 

Mon Jan 25 2021 12:27:17 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Sure would be nice if there was such a thing as "certified de-googled android"

Well, looks like this weekend Xiaomi just went on the 'grey' list from the DoD. ( no restrictions on import/export but no US investments )

Super. 

While i totally agree companies like Huawei are a serious threat, these guys are not.

My Xiaomi phones have been rock solid.  have been using those for years now, and the wife. ( dont worry wont get into the android one discussion again :) )   But, they are still tied to android and all the potential risk that goes along with that, and i thought id look into something a bit more open. 

I dont suspect the software is yet ready for daily use and replace a 'real' phone, but it will still be interesting to mess with, and the software will improve over time.

Well, i pulled the trigger on a pinephone just now. No idea why i did it, i dont need a phone. 

I guess it comes late next month. Full review afterward. 

I would not go that far to say it doesn't matter.  It keeps the regular snoops out. 

Government funded snoops, better be using a platform you control to go along with it.

Thu Jan 14 2021 21:31:42 EST from zooer

(And before Ignat says anything....  end-to-end encryption doesn't matter.)

If you thought your text messages were secure, or had end-to-end encryption, think again:

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/verizon-t-mobile-at-t-urged-to-safeguard-sms-mms-messages-related-to-riots

The default messaging apps usually don't have end-to-end encryption, perhaps apple does.  Most of the third party messaging apps do have end to end encyption.

(And before Ignat says anything....  end-to-end encryption doesn't matter.)

I've been getting that lately on my Note 10+. I get a notification chime, open up notifications - nothing there. 

Mon Jan 04 2021 21:39:35 EST from zooer

From what I read the latest update for the Pixel phones will correct that annoying screen rotation issue.

 

Now if I can figure out why it makes the alert sound but doesn't display anything.  Looking in the recent notifications doesn't show anything.

 

From what I read the latest update for the Pixel phones will correct that annoying screen rotation issue.

Now if I can figure out why it makes the alert sound but doesn't display anything.  Looking in the recent notifications doesn't show anything.

I think they've just added a lot more monkeys. 

Sun Jan 03 2021 08:05:50 EST from Nurb432

I thought it was always that way..  

 

I thought it was always that way..  Everyone with their pet projects, tossing stuff against the public wall. Even if it overlaps other peoples projects, just give it a new name and all is well.  And then when any particular dev guy/team gets bored their pet project gets discontinued, even if lots of people use it.

"Go forth and code"  ( no pun intended there on GO and FORTH :) )

Sat Jan 02 2021 14:34:55 EST from ParanoidDelusions

I feel more and more like "Alphabet/Google" just has a lab full of infinite monkeys with infinite research benches and they take whatever results they think *might* work and throw them at the public and hope for the best. 

 

 

 

 

Speaking of Android annoyances - because there is no "mobile app" as a Citadel client - I access my Citadel from Chrome on Android.


This works out OK - but... for the web client, I want it to be a fairly visual experience. The problem is that there is no way to cut and paste an image from Android into a Citadel message composer window.

With a full PC, this is trivial, pick your image in an image viewing app, copy it to the clipboard, paste it into your message in Citadel.

Android wants you to SHARE the fricking thing. If you copy it in a file manager, you can paste it somewhere else on the file system of the device, but you cannot paste it into Chrome.

Anybody have any workarounds for this annoyance other than adding the image as an attachment? That works - somewhat less than ideally.

I feel more and more like "Alphabet/Google" just has a lab full of infinite monkeys with infinite research benches and they take whatever results they think *might* work and throw them at the public and hope for the best. 

Sat Jan 02 2021 11:41:37 EST from zooer

The newest Pixel now have the adaptive battery charging feature.   Instead of a rapid charge they slowly charge therefore extending the life of the battery.   Google found a way to screw that up.

 

 

 

I had forgotten about that - but, assuming that the device still has WiFi data - if you can't get an update through the manufacturer - the carrier is actively doing something to block it on their network. 

It may try and send you a carrier update and balk at that because it can't determine the model from its list of ESIDs or however else they know you're a carrier phone on the carrier network. That is fine, "You bring a device that isn't one of our preferred devices onto our network, it is between you and the manufacturer how well that works..." 

But it shouldn't block you from getting a non-in-network update straight from the manufacturer, as long as the phone works on their network and has a data signal. I feel like something like that must be in violation of whatever rule was passed that forced the carriers to open up to unlocked phones. 

Ig's response makes it sound like this is something like how it works. To me, it is all just curiosity - I've been tempted by unlo

Fri Jan 01 2021 15:01:33 EST from Nurb432

He something about an "invalid device", so i assume that means no carrier data.

Fri Jan 01 2021 13:56:19 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Why would wifi be different than the Internet connection available through the carrier as far as the phone "phoning home" and being able to grab an update from the manufacturer?

Fri Jan 01 2021 12:40:17 EST from Nurb432

Keep the WiFi on and i woudl assume you get updates from the google machine.

 

The newest Pixel now have the adaptive battery charging feature.   Instead of a rapid charge they slowly charge therefore extending the life of the battery.   Google found a way to screw that up.

1) users have to start charging the device after 9 PM.
2) users must have an alarm that is set between 5 AM and 10 AM.

It is limited as it is.  It doesn't help people that work nights as they will be working they only time they can use this feature.

He something about an "invalid device", so i assume that means no carrier data.

Fri Jan 01 2021 13:56:19 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Why would wifi be different than the Internet connection available through the carrier as far as the phone "phoning home" and being able to grab an update from the manufacturer?

Fri Jan 01 2021 12:40:17 EST from Nurb432

Keep the WiFi on and i woudl assume you get updates from the google machine.

Why would wifi be different than the Internet connection available through the carrier as far as the phone "phoning home" and being able to grab an update from the manufacturer?

Fri Jan 01 2021 12:40:17 EST from Nurb432

Keep the WiFi on and i woudl assume you get updates from the google machine.

Keep the WiFi on and i woudl assume you get updates from the google machine.

Thu Dec 31 2020 12:32:09 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Hmm. I bought my son a new phone for Christmas, but this is the first time we've purchased one anywhere other than the T-Mobile store. It is one of the Google Pixel phones and I bought it at Best Buy (don't judge me, we were behind schedule). It's an "unlocked" phone and we didn't notify T-Mobile that we changed the phone, we just moved the SIM card and now the account portal says "unknown device". Soooooooo... I don't know where the updates from this phone will come from. Maybe direct from the manufacturer? Maybe not at all?

Still less than other android vendors ( unless they are supplying android one ) + carrier garbage.

Fri Jan 01 2021 10:41:30 EST from zooer

 

Originally Pixels were great because it didn't come with extra bloatware, but Google has its own bloatware.  All sorts of crap I don't want. 

 

 

 

Fri Jan 01 2021 02:16:58 AM EST from arabella

Source: Research for my next cell phone, which will likely be a Pixel 4a.

I just picked up a 4a 5G.  There is a difference between the 4a and the 4a 5G.  Two issues I noticed, one is the screen rotation, it seems to want to switch to landscape on its own when I open anything.  The second is I can't seem to use the two finger zoom to enlarge something on the screen.  It only works on some pages.  

Originally Pixels were great because it didn't come with extra bloatware, but Google has its own bloatware.  All sorts of crap I don't want. 

I tried Google Fi with my Pixel 2, as soon as the Android updates were released I had them.  No waiting for the carrier updates because the carrier was the point of release.

In the UK, as far as I am aware, Unlocked devices get their updates from the software developer, and usually before locked devices, since the OS for locked units have to undergo extra testing for the Carrier Add-ons (bloatware) I imagine it will be at least similar in the US.

Source: Research for my next cell phone, which will likely be a Pixel 4a.

Have you contacted T Mobile and let them know this? Maybe they just have to click a box in your user profile. 

Thu Dec 31 2020 12:32:09 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

 we just moved the SIM card and now the account portal says "unknown device". Soooooooo... I don't know where the updates from this phone will come from. Maybe direct from the manufacturer? Maybe not at all?

 -- There are several factors that affect the availability of a software update for Android phones
 -- and one such factor is mobile network carriers. Carriers tend to release updates once they
 -- conduct their own internal testing.

https://piunikaweb.com/2020/12/19/android-11-update-tmobile-verizon-sprint-att/

Agreed, but that is not the *carrier*.. Your phone does not get its OS or play store updates from AT&T.  It gets its OS updates from Samsung, Motorola, or whoever. And play store apps from google.

Only the carrier crap gets updated by the carrier. And if you are off-network, you no longer care about them anyway.

Fri Dec 18 2020 21:26:42 EST from zooer

The wifi connected device gets it from the manufacture.  

Is there a practical difference for the experience of the end user? 

Fri Dec 18 2020 21:26:42 EST from zooer

A wifi connected device and a mobile connected device are different. Most carriers have their own version of Android installed on the mobile device and the carrier is the one that takes the latest release of android, compiles it to the carriers specs and sends it to the device. 

The wifi connected device gets it from the manufacture.  

A wifi connected device and a mobile connected device are different. Most carriers have their own version of Android installed on the mobile device and the carrier is the one that takes the latest release of android, compiles it to the carriers specs and sends it to the device. 

The wifi connected device gets it from the manufacture.  

Carrier status should not matter, else most tablets would never get updates...

Thu Dec 17 2020 18:23:36 EST from zooer

I looked at the update page, it is still showing the same software, I swear it said it was going to perform some type of upgrade.  The battery drain is still strong.

It might not get the final upgrade, it is no longer assigned to a carrier.  

No denying that.  They are still in the middle of Moore's law.  x86, pretty much has topped out.

Right after Debian announced full support in bullseye alpha 3, ( GPU support yay! ) Rockchip just announced an upgrade to my beloved RK3399..   now 8 core and an AI core... ooooo  

Thu Dec 17 2020 19:57:57 EST from ParanoidDelusions

And... ARM hardware does tend to have radical leaps in performance every few years now. 

 

There are some nuances in this discussion/debate. 

I managed to hang on to a pair of Nexus 7 tablets until the Thanksgiving before last, when I gave them to my niece and nephew. Battery life was still good. 

What I found was that they didn't have enough power to do anything that has evolved since that time - so... they didn't make a good Retroarch emulator device, for example. 

Also - there are apps that the older versions are depreciated - they no longer work - and the newer versions require a more recent version of Android than the Nexus 7 will support. 

Now... there is an argument I could have rooted and used an underground ROM image and possibly gotten more horsepower and done some sideloading of apps that would have done what I was looking for... 

But we get into that - "for the average user" thing. But yeah - for my niece and nephew, basic games - video and music... those things all still work. Facebook and Twitter... but... I bet there are

Thu Dec 17 2020 15:29:18 EST from Nurb432

I haven't really found that to be the case for me. My older stuff runs just as well as new and not yet found an app that i use that didnt work. I'm sure at SOME point it becomes a problem to get new apps, but i have been up to 4 versions behind, and not a blip. Sure, i dont get new OS features, but honestly, rarely do i care about them anyway, for a device like that.  

Well, other than batteries that slowly stop keeping a charge, but that is not an OS problem.

Only reason i tend to upgrade is for more storage, or a nicer display ( especially on tablets ). And with the last 2 phones i got, they have plenty of both to last me forever.  So ill be using them until the hardware dies or my carrier kicks me off. So far i have never actually 'broken' a mobile device..( most likely ill die before the carrier drops me, as i dont see 4G being phased out anytime in the foreseeable future )

 

This is android, IOS users: YMMV

 

I looked at the update page, it is still showing the same software, I swear it said it was going to perform some type of upgrade.  The battery drain is still strong.

It might not get the final upgrade, it is no longer assigned to a carrier.  

I have only seen that in one of my phones. It was due to a bug in how BT was handled. I dont think it was done intentionally to obsolete the phone. Just a stupid code error/design flaw.

Turn off BT and ti ran fine, turn it on, it would never stop scanning and inserting records into a db file. Eventually crashing the BT process totally.    Only at work tho, where we had 100's of BT devices screaming 'look at me' all day long. In that case, no more updates so it was never fixed.  ( sort of forgot about that one .. its been a few years )

Any other battery problem was truly the battery was giving out, and a replacement fixed it.

My main reason for getting a new phone was the poor battery life on the old phone. After the November software update the battery wouldn't last 20 hours.  I wouldn't want to say it was by design to get me to buy a new phone...

I would fully charge the phone, before going to bed I would unplug the phone, put it on the counter for the morning.  Six hours later in the morning the phone was down to 85% life.  As I used the phone during the day the battery drained very quickly.

Today I powered up the old phone up, it said an update was available, the final update.  I thought I should get one last update in the beginning of December, when I checked the update screen it displayed that the phone would not receive any more updates.

They pushed through the final update I should have received.  Perhaps this last update fixed the battery drain problem. 

I haven't really found that to be the case for me. My older stuff runs just as well as new and not yet found an app that i use that didnt work. I'm sure at SOME point it becomes a problem to get new apps, but i have been up to 4 versions behind, and not a blip. Sure, i dont get new OS features, but honestly, rarely do i care about them anyway, for a device like that.  

Well, other than batteries that slowly stop keeping a charge, but that is not an OS problem.

Only reason i tend to upgrade is for more storage, or a nicer display ( especially on tablets ). And with the last 2 phones i got, they have plenty of both to last me forever.  So ill be using them until the hardware dies or my carrier kicks me off. So far i have never actually 'broken' a mobile device..( most likely ill die before the carrier drops me, as i dont see 4G being phased out anytime in the foreseeable future )

This is android, IOS users: YMMV

Thu Dec 17 2020 12:32:43 EST from ParanoidDelusions

But the truth is - once official support dies - it can mean a lot more user effort to keep things running - and newer features and benefits are unlikely to arrive. 

You're basically retro-mobile computing at that point. You can do it, but it becomes a labor of love or defiance to do so. 

 

Thu Dec 17 2020 12:09:59 PM EST from Nurb432

Just because your phone no longer gets updates does not mean it dies the next day. App support lasts even longer. I have a couple of tablets that have not seen OS updates in many years, they still do the job they were doing 10 years ago.  Even get app updates still.. 

 

I know that, it was just time to upgrade.  I had my Galaxy S3 until the S7 came out.  I have a tablet that is no longer getting upgrades.  I just felt it was time to upgrade.  

But the truth is - once official support dies - it can mean a lot more user effort to keep things running - and newer features and benefits are unlikely to arrive. 

You're basically retro-mobile computing at that point. You can do it, but it becomes a labor of love or defiance to do so. 

Thu Dec 17 2020 12:09:59 EST from Nurb432

Just because your phone no longer gets updates does not mean it dies the next day. App support lasts even longer. I have a couple of tablets that have not seen OS updates in many years, they still do the job they were doing 10 years ago.  Even get app updates still.. 

 

Just because your phone no longer gets updates does not mean it dies the next day. App support lasts even longer. I have a couple of tablets that have not seen OS updates in many years, they still do the job they were doing 10 years ago.  Even get app updates still.. 

And if you are lucky might find a 3rd party OS that is compatible with your device. ( ones based on ASOP, not a true 3rd party 'something else entirely' ). One of my tablets kept current that way, until they dropped it there too. But the thing still works. All the stuff i used, i still can, and it keeps getting app updates all the freaking time like new versions of the OS does.

Android is easy to root, though.

But yeah - without social media, the smart part of the phone is way less important to me.

Thu Dec 17 2020 06:22:36 EST from zooer

My old phone reached its designed EOL.  It was no longer going to get updates, I went with a cheap 5G model.  I thought about getting a cheaper 4G model but I figured I would be ready when the technology arrived.  I don't stream video or audio, I don't have a need for the bandwidth other than calls.  

I learned that iPhones have a lifespan of five years, Android's lifespan is three years.  This is not the hardware, this is for the O.S. updates.

I could go back to a phone only device and be happy.

 

My old phone reached its designed EOL.  It was no longer going to get updates, I went with a cheap 5G model.  I thought about getting a cheaper 4G model but I figured I would be ready when the technology arrived.  I don't stream video or audio, I don't have a need for the bandwidth other than calls.  

I learned that iPhones have a lifespan of five years, Android's lifespan is three years.  This is not the hardware, this is for the O.S. updates.

I could go back to a phone only device and be happy.

Phoenix and its suburbs tends to be an early adopter of cutting edge tech. When I got my Note 10+, it was still 5 or 6 months new... I went with the 4G model. 

I just don't really see the point. It is kind of like the latest gaming console. I'll wait until the buzz dies down and it is the only option. 

Wed Dec 16 2020 21:28:59 EST from zooer

Picked up a new 5G phone a few weeks ago, I was told there are not many 5G towers around this area and probably won't be until later in 2021.  The phone did display 5G today when I was out and about but I don't think it is true 5G.

Picked up a new 5G phone a few weeks ago, I was told there are not many 5G towers around this area and probably won't be until later in 2021.  The phone did display 5G today when I was out and about but I don't think it is true 5G.

Yeah. Usually when I'm doing this, though - it is because I am upgrading to a new phone... so opening it up to pull an SD from inside it isn't a real big deal. 

Even then - I typically just do a mass drag and drop from the phone to my NAS in a folder labeled "ThisPhone128gbSD" 

But... as we climb up to half a TB in size MicroSDs - that becomes less practical. 

Sat Dec 12 2020 10:35:22 EST from Nurb432

Normally i do too, but if i want to move LOTS of data ( which happens every so often, like a refresh of movies or music ), its sure nice to pull it out and do it that way and get it done quicker.  its also convenient for when i get a larger SD.  Not that i *have* to, but the option is nice to have since im not short on 'internal' space.

Only wish his damned RK3399 chromebook i have would do the 'extension' thing. Going to have to futz around with partitioning in Linux to pull it off, but it should be a out of box feature.

Tue Dec 01 2020 07:56:46 EST from ParanoidDelusions

You know, I haven't pulled the SD from my phone to transfer to my PC in years. It is easier to just hook it up via USB as an external mass storage device. 

 

 

 

Normally i do too, but if i want to move LOTS of data ( which happens every so often, like a refresh of movies or music ), its sure nice to pull it out and do it that way and get it done quicker.  its also convenient for when i get a larger SD.  Not that i *have* to, but the option is nice to have since im not short on 'internal' space.

Only wish his damned RK3399 chromebook i have would do the 'extension' thing. Going to have to futz around with partitioning in Linux to pull it off, but it should be a out of box feature.

Tue Dec 01 2020 07:56:46 EST from ParanoidDelusions

You know, I haven't pulled the SD from my phone to transfer to my PC in years. It is easier to just hook it up via USB as an external mass storage device. 

 

 

You know, I haven't pulled the SD from my phone to transfer to my PC in years. It is easier to just hook it up via USB as an external mass storage device. 

The other reason Google tried to discourage this for a while is evidently using a microSD as expansion storage has a hit on battery life - but that doesn't seem to be an issue anymore, either. 

Mon Nov 30 2020 14:55:11 EST from Nurb432

Most android phones these days let you 'extend' its internal storage onto the SD card.  no need to figure out how to put apps there and fight with that ( i remember those days with small internal, and poor partition sizes. it sucked )  

One caveat: It does reformat it into a format that you can no longer take it out and just shove it into a pc to transfer on/off but it does do the job of getting around any space issues.   Id have to go look but i think my A3 has 128gb internal, and i just stuck in a 400gb SD the other day ( they were on sale, im a sucker )

Sun Nov 29 2020 22:04:31 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Disabling them is as good as removing them ***IF*** they aren't consuming space on the phone that you need for other things. If the phone is rooted then you can delete anything, of course.

My current phone *runs* fine, but it is FULL, and I don't have a whole lot of apps on it. My next handset will definitely need either ample onboard storage or the ability to *reliably* offload apps to an SD card.

 

Most android phones these days let you 'extend' its internal storage onto the SD card.  no need to figure out how to put apps there and fight with that ( i remember those days with small internal, and poor partition sizes. it sucked )  

One caveat: It does reformat it into a format that you can no longer take it out and just shove it into a pc to transfer on/off but it does do the job of getting around any space issues.   Id have to go look but i think my A3 has 128gb internal, and i just stuck in a 400gb SD the other day ( they were on sale, im a sucker )

Sun Nov 29 2020 22:04:31 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Disabling them is as good as removing them ***IF*** they aren't consuming space on the phone that you need for other things. If the phone is rooted then you can delete anything, of course.

My current phone *runs* fine, but it is FULL, and I don't have a whole lot of apps on it. My next handset will definitely need either ample onboard storage or the ability to *reliably* offload apps to an SD card.

Sun Nov 29 2020 22:04:31 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Disabling them is as good as removing them ***IF*** they aren't consuming space on the phone that you need for other things. If the phone is rooted then you can delete anything, of course.

My current phone *runs* fine, but it is FULL, and I don't have a whole lot of apps on it. My next handset will definitely need either ample onboard storage or the ability to *reliably* offload apps to an SD card.

That is one thing I like about my Note 10. I've got 512gb internal and a 512gb SD... so... space isn't really a problem. 

Its still google centric so i dont think you can remove them easily.  But no one says you have to use either, since there are plenty of alternatives. Now, that said, a quick look says you can disable both of them on this phone i have in my hand ( MI-A3 ). so while not gone might be the same effect you are looking for.

Rooting, i'm not 100% sure. I have not needed to root for a long time, so i didnt look into it until now. I do see a few things via a quick search that says there are tool kits to do it, so YMMV.  Also, one of the manufactures were offering to root their devices for you, by sending a code once you signed up and agreed it was out of warranty if you do it, etc.  But again, not looked into it on these so it may not be a vendor option. 

Sat Nov 28 2020 10:42:11 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

"Android One" looks interesting, regardless of what manufacturer supplies the phone.  Can you uninstall GMail and Chrome on an Android One phone?  Can you root the phone?

"Android One" looks interesting, regardless of what manufacturer supplies the phone.  Can you uninstall GMail and Chrome on an Android One phone?  Can you root the phone?

Bleh, pixel, not nexus.  Nexus was the older google stuff, not been that for years yet i still think that term....  same difference tho, in this context.

Fri Nov 27 2020 15:39:06 EST from Nurb432

Im partial to Xiaomi phones. its all i have purchased last few years. Wife also. 

 

Last 2 models have been in their Android One' line.  ( zero extra bloat, basically what you get if you buy a nexus but for less $ ) They still have 'regular' android phones in most any price range too. From "dirt cheap" to "WTF that is expensive". 

Im partial to Xiaomi phones. its all i have purchased last few years. Wife also. 

Last 2 models have been in their Android One' line.  ( zero extra bloat, basically what you get if you buy a nexus but for less $ ) They still have 'regular' android phones in most any price range too. From "dirt cheap" to "WTF that is expensive". 

I need a new phone, does anyone have any suggestions?  I am leaning to getting a Pixel 4a 5G.  5G is not available here but I need a new phone and want to be ready.   The world is not traveling so there isn't an advantage to it.

I thought about an iPhone as well.

I don't need a fancy top of the line expensive phone.  I would like it to make calls, not run NASA.  I don't care about fancy stuff.

TIL.... Android phones will get updates for three years after the phones release date.
Apple will get updates for five years.

Next month my Pixel 2 will reach its EOL and will not be getting any more updates.
Last month, my phone was updated to Android 11, nicknamed 'drain the battery at a faster rate'  I am sure the battery drain issue will not be fixed.  They are pushing me to get a new phone.  I am thinking of an Iphone.

I think so, this area is rural enough, there are many dead spots.  The 5G maps state 5G is available in the area but I do not see any towers.  I thought 5G could only travel 1000 feet or so.

5G with 4G rollback. 

No, I have not purchased a new phone, supposedly it is available in this area. I don't understand the technology enough, I thought the 5G frequencies did not travel long distances.  You needed more TX/RX for it to work, it wasn't made for rural areas.  I will keep my current Pixel phone as long as I can.  That being said I am almost sure Google is fucking with the battery. After Google's 5G phones were released my phone's battery life dropped significantly. 

Anyone on 5G yet?  Everyone still seems to think that 5G is all about being faster than 4G, and the marketing isn't doing anything to clarify that it's more about lower latency, lower power, and higher density than about the higher speed (which will not be realized in a noticeable way for most deployments).

At some point the promise needs to be kept ... I want to be able to put a 5G trinket on my cat's collar and add it to my data plan for $1/month.  As long as they keep thinking of every device as "a line" the whole thing misses the point.

Hackers can eavesdrop on mobile calls with $7,000 worth of equipment.   LINK

https://arstechnica-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/08/your-mobile-calls-may-be-vulnerable-to-a-new-revolting-eavesdrop-attack/

I thought you mentioned K-9 before, the last update was in 2018.  I did find a website, they said the project is still being maintained and a new version will be out "soon".

This is for my mother's new phone so it has to be somewhat simple to use.

Ignat

What email app do you use for your Android?  

Re: my CPAP machine

Wed Aug 14 2019 09:38:09 AM EDT from zooer

 there is a information screen with "Provider: AT&T" "Type 4G"  

It currently states "Provider: T-Mobile". No, I didn't change a sim card.

It's called the Internet of things and it's awesome and wonderful and terrifying

and right now, countries where people are less concerned with freedom and more concerned with health are using it to track the movement of the virus.... it's kind of crazy.

Here in the US we have an iPhones-to-Androids ratio that is higher than most of the world, but there is still a very high density of Android devices on the roads.

It's been said that our lives are so dependent on our mobile devices today, that we are essentially the equivalent of cyborgs.  The integration between our biological and electronic components is very loose at this point but it is there.

Google and apple maps use your cell phone location information to monitor traffic in real time.  Some guy walked around empty streets with a wagon full of cell phones, Google maps thinking traffic was moving slowly re-routed traffic around him.

https://www.dailydot.com/debug/performance-artist-traffic-jam-google-maps/

I dislike swiping, I never thought it was a good idea, I always seem to false swipe and lose an item.  I think I am scrolling up and the screen thinks I am moving left to right.

My mother used a Nook for years before she had a smart phone, she is always deleting or archiving different things, telling her children "I don't know what happened to...."

Swipe gestures, A reason to execute or decent feature?

I was in Verizon getting a screen protector for the Note 10... and I was amazed that they had an entire display of flip feature phones that were - not Sr. or Tween oriented. Just pragmatic, "I'm a crusty old IT engineer and I don't want that Google or Apple shit hanging from my belt," feature phones. 

The non-smartphone, non-Android, non-Apple options are dwindling more every day, where the only choices left seem to be stripped-down big-button geared toward seniors with easy emergency access, or minimalist hipster design that's still cancer all the way down. I had been looking at the Punkt MP-02, but apparently it's just Yet Another Android Remix.

]]>https://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Mobile%20Madness?start_reading_at=4476041Thu, 15 Aug 2019 13:06:23 -00004476041@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Mobile%20Madness?start_reading_at=4475740Wed, 14 Aug 2019 13:38:09 -00004475740@Uncensored

I didn't think they did either, the manual stated the modem was CDMA, for some reason I thought it was only CDMA. It lists 2G, 3G and 4G as well.  
After I found the super-secret, don't change anything in the clinical menu, there is a information screen with "Provider: AT&T" "Type 4G"  

I picked up my new CPAP machine, it uses AT&T's CDMA to send my sleep data to the sleep center, the insurance, I am sure back to the manufacture and whom ever else they sell my data to.  

Mon Jul 29 2019 09:43:33 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

Federal regulators finally approved the merger of T-Mobile and Sprint. Things should start to get interesting soon.

It's being structured as a merger but from the looks of it, T-Mobile will be the going concern, while Sprint's assets and customers get absorbed into T-Mobile. This means CDMA's days are finally numbered. 

Has Verizon moved, fully, off of CDMA?

Candy-Gram for Mongo

Mon Apr 30 2018 09:48:40 AM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

 
All I know is that Sprint's network is still using CDMA in an era whene veryone else went to GSM years ago.

I blame Hedy Lamarr, it is clearly her fault.

It certainly is taking a while.  I just got my text this morning.

I think the reason they're spreading it out is because they are offering a way to lock the number and they can't handle the entire customer base calling in at once to activate it.

This one seems legit scary though.  Mobile phones have become the de facto second authentication factor for everyone.

T-Mobile Is Sending a Mass Text Warning of ‘Industry-Wide’ Phone Hijacking Scam

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/gy8bxy/t-mobile-text-warning-phone-hijacking-number-port-out-scam

Is the smartwatch fad finally starting to decline?  It seemed silly from the very beginning, but I've always enjoyed not having to wear a watch because the time is displayed on my phone.

If a watch could replace a phone completely, that would be fun, but the screen is too small and there wouldn't be enough battery life for smartphone use.

Want a cheap discoed smartwatch?

Verizon's discontinued Wear24 smartwatch is down to just $49.99 ($300 off) 

http://www.androidpolice.com/2018/01/29/verizons-discontinued-wear24-smartwatch-just-49-99-300-off-coupon-code/

Or traditional news media sites.  I get a lot of redirects like that on my mobile devices when I don't use their apps and just go to the website instead.   

Four virus!  You should avoid those adult sites.

4286578@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Mobile%20Madness?start_reading_at=4274886Sun, 04 Jun 2017 23:24:30 -00004274886@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Mobile%20Madness?start_reading_at=4274371Fri, 02 Jun 2017 18:24:09 -00004274371@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Mobile%20Madness?start_reading_at=4274036Thu, 01 Jun 2017 21:29:30 -00004274036@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Mobile%20Madness?start_reading_at=4273933Thu, 01 Jun 2017 14:45:34 -00004273933@Uncensoredhttps://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Mobile%20Madness?start_reading_at=4273820Wed, 31 May 2017 22:30:18 -00004273820@Uncensored

 >> "Be the first to reserve yours."

Who else is going to reserve mine?

Tomorrow I'm going on a trip to visit the technology labs for a company we do a lot of business with.  Should be pretty cool.  But...

To read the itinerary for the day's events, they required us to install an app on our smartphones.

WTF?  There's no special functionality in this app.  Just an agenda for the day and some directions to the place etc.  Have they not heard of this wonderful thing called "web pages" ?

In a perfect world, there would be no apps.

I read today that, 

Since Android 6.0 it's required to have GPS permissions in order to run Bluetooth

What is the connection between GPS and Bluetooth?

I am not sure if this came up in my YouTube recommended list or it was posted here.  Who is the man named ᚼᛒ and how did Bluetooth get its name?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdmQp9M9jUo 

As long as it costs a lot and wont work I am all for it.

How much of the difference is not due to the phone hardware but the software that takes the picture ie stabilization, etc?  Of course a "camera" today is probably the combination of both the software and the hardware.

I guess people could switch to using another camera app like opencamera which would throw in another variable.

I thought the problem was interplanetary space vessels are not visiting earth, you are saying it is a lighting issue?

Is there such a thing as too many pixels?  For the most part do any of us need really sharp clear pictures or is that lower quality image people post on facebook and forget about good enough.  Why take a four meg picture if preservation and clarity isn't important?

If everyone has a great camera on their cell phone why don't we have quality pictures/movies of big foot, ghosts or UFOs yet?

No I don't.  I still have my S3 as a working phone, my current desktop came with XP (now with Linux).  Car and computers, use them under the wheels fall off.  YES there are wheels on a computer.

My sister has long been complaining that her old (S3) mobile phone was performing poorly, chewing up battery and she was having problems with it.  She now has a new phone and I asked her for her old phone.  I performed a factory reset, and I am using it for one game, a poker clock and a dash cam.  Works great, the battery lasts forever with wireless off and in airplane mode.

Wait at least until end of the month, when MWC is taking place here in ye olde europe. Jolla has something to unveil, maybe a stunning new phone with their actual GNU/Linux. Unlike that depraved bastard OS that was devised by Hitler at Google.

https://blog.jolla.com/letter-jolla-ceo/

RMS would have an apoplectic tantrum if he heard you using his name and the phrase "open source" in the same sentence.

I'm not really concerned about proprietary chipsets/drivers, particularly in a phone.  I'll buy a CheapChinese(tm) phone if it is compatible with my carrier's network in the US.  I just don't want the crapware that some manufacturers and carriers load on top of the base OS and then mark as non-removable.

Samsung and lots of other Android manufacturers have had and have phones in that price range.

And almost all chips in any phone and probably most other hardware are manufactured in China, they already have access to all the networks. There are close to non open source driver for chinese chips, and even if there are, you need some binary blob most of the time. Richard Martin Stallman tries to use open source hardware, if you do so, you probably lag at least 2 generations behind.

Call Trump and tell him to force all component manufacturers to build american plants. He gives a shit about environmental and health issues anyway. But expect phones to double in price, when you pay american style exploitation wages instead of china style slave wages. ;)

But but but... only Crapple devices are overpriced!!!!!

Anyway, you can still have a lot of fun with your Nexus 5: https://www.kali.org/kali-linux-nethunter/

I read that the Pixel 2 is suppose to have a cheaper version, Pixel 2 and Pixel 2B, but I am not sure.

Pixel 2 and the Pixel 2B will be available..... "soon"

Fleeb, this is how they get you.  See, to buy cookies online, you must first buy some from a Scout so that you can purchase your entrance to the site with a certain volume of cookies, depending on your location.  DC, for example, requires twice as many cookies for site entry than Swastika Town, Montana.

Girl Scout Cookies Are Here!

Cookie season for the Girl Scout Council of the Nation's Capital is currently underway!

Hmmm, I typed in different area codes and different area codes had different dates.  Obviously based on region.
http://www.girlscouts.org/en/cookies/cookies.html#20171 You can type your area code.

The app is used to hook you up with a cookie dealer based on your location.

There are several ways to satisfy your Girl Scout Cookie craving. You can get cookies at a Girl Scout Cookie booth in your community by entering your zip code in the “Find Cookies!” tool or downloading the Cookie Finder mobile app for your iOS® or Android® phone or tablet.
Or—and this is pretty exciting—a girl you know can invite you to buy your cookies online with the Digital Cookie platform, now in its third year!

There is an official Girl Scout app to find and buy girl scout cookies.

The CM company was an odd move to begin with and an android without google services is worse than windows mobile, from an app perspective.

Firefox OS is dead, too. Pebble seems to be gone too, Microsoft killed off their fitness thing, too. The smartwatch/fitness tracker market seems to be consolidating fast. I guess VR headsets are next to thin out.

Jolla, the company behind Sailfish OS, rambled about an OS for smartwatches, of all things... Turing Phone announced even more vaporware.

Cyanogen, the company responsible for the commercialisation of CyanogenMod is to cease all operations by the end of 2016. There will be no further updates to the OS, no more nightly builds and no further security updates. Phones that run the OS, like the original OnePlus handset, will need to switch to the Open Source version of the OS.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ianmorris/2016/12/25/cyanogen-wanted-to-kill-googles-android-but-instead-killed-itself/#30248fd81bae

More....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCX4owupPmo

Ok, well, 2007 called and they want their T-Mobile coverage map back.

I wish I could get a signal in this area.  I would like to switch

At one time I thought they shared towers but I am not sure.  This is a T-mobile, Sprint dead zone but Verizon works fine.

The only advantage is you can use google hangouts on your computer as a device to make and receive calls.  If you have a google voice number you can do this already with any carrier. 

Google's Project Fi, a phone service.  Using three major carriers, and is still only 2G at my house.  https://fi.google.com/

I saw a comment that Sprint or T-Moible have better plans by themselves, but I am sure those plans require a contract.

A link for text client users http://fi.google.com/  

Google Pixel Phone Launching October 4: The Death of Google's Nexus Brand

http://www.knowyourmobile.com/mobile-phones/android-n/23656/google-pixel-phone-launching-october-4-death-googles-nexus-brand

The company running Pokemon Go seems to do it on software level, the Sailfish users with their AlienDalvik android vm have been banned rather regularly from their games.

I doubt they are clever enough to detect a spoofing method as mentioned in the link above. But for some extra paranoia, do it the Bob Ross way, nice and slow. Instead of radically faking your location instantly.

We use Whatsapp for wifi calling. 

http://www.rtl-sdr.com/cheating-at-pokemon-go-with-a-hackrf-and-gps-spoofing/

To get back to mobile questions, Mr. Foobar, in some other room you mentioned you want to get a new phone.  Why not wait for the newest Google and/or Nexus phones coming out later this year?

This would be nice for someone who has a metal roof as well.  Is it open, meaning can your neighbors suck your bandwidth?   

No, just off, and then on again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn2FB1P_Mn8

Did you try re-booting the device sir?

At the moment I'm trying to figure out what's been killing my battery.  I uninstalled WAZE and a few other things.  It's possible that the battery is just dying on its own.

I am not sure how that posted here, I thought I was in mobile madness.

I was wrong, Gas Buddy are Nazi not communist.  It is so hard to remember which is which and who is who.

(Link)

http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Godwin%27s%20Lounge?start_reading_at=3545843#3545843\

That was odd, for some reason this posted to Godwin's lounge and I was sure I was in the mobile madness room.

I was wrong, Gas Buddy are Nazi not communist.  It is so hard to remember which is which and who is who.

(Link)

http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Godwin%27s%20Lounge?start_reading_at=3545843#3545843

Back when I worked out of my car, I purchased a GPS app that has been sadly discontinued. Had all the features of Waze, Google, and others in a single package, was easy to use, and the directions were very good. All the free apps that collect your data to resell it drove them out of the market. Feh. 

Once you stop playing with it, WAZE is pretty safely usable while driving.

You thought the people that started it were communists for one reason or another.

Remind me again why I don't like Gas Buddy?  (I'm sure I had a good reason)

So Waze is like Gas Buddy but for traffic conditions?

(I know you don't like the people that run Gas Buddy)  

I finally got around to installing Waze yesterday.  Seems pretty slick.  Looks like it's got enough bling to distract a lot of people from their primary task of driving safely.

And I realized that what we really need is a navigator app that turns the trip into an augmented-reality version of Mario Party.

But, my computer worked before you worked on it yesterday.

So, job security for me (as long as my liver holds out).

Mon Feb 15 2016 10:22:37 PM ESTfrom ax25

Sweet Jesus, don't give general computing to the masses.  Who knows what would happen next.

We end up with cat videos and facebook.

Sat Feb 13 2016 12:52:39 PM EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Naah ... this is a software problem to be solved.  When the phone comes within range of a screen and keyboard, it should be able to pair with that screen and keyboard and act as a compute host.  But it has to act like a desktop computer, not like a Windows 8 computer.

Sweet Jesus, don't give general computing to the masses.  Who knows what would happen next.

Naah ... this is a software problem to be solved.  When the phone comes within range of a screen and keyboard, it should be able to pair with that screen and keyboard and act as a compute host.  But it has to act like a desktop computer, not like a Windows 8 computer.

you can arguably get that with the 3d glasses.

the latest Z sony has a 6" 4k display; most probably conventional lenses make much preciser and sharper pictures than the fresnell lens can ever do.

Considering that Brazil is heading into a depression, perhaps it makes sense that they can't afford computers with screns?

I want more than just duplicating my phone's screen onto a larger monitor, though.  I already have that.  I want the display to size and scale itself with sensible fonts and controls.

Brazil anyone?

You're seeing a sony android behind a freznel lens post with a microsoft bluetooth keyboard and an apple magic mouse attached ;-)

the madness continues: meanwhile there are x11 servers for andraid around, connected a mouse via usb otg. now trying the debian chroot for android.

Hm, using my Z2 with an usb keyboard.

Now I only need a stand for that huge lens I've got around for a while and I've got a brazil keyboard.

;-)

Webcit isn't that unusable on that, and in the end the Z2 has a full hd display...

F5 is nice for the goto next room, only scrolling the mailbox view is a bit odd.

I'd say mobile has come a long way.

And now....T-Mobile's data has been hacked

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/01/experian-reports-data-breach-involving-info-for-more-than-15m-t-mobile-customers.html

I think bigger news is when someone doesn't get hacked.

well, most android apps I have tried run just fine on the aliendalvik virtual maschine on jolla. as long as they do not have a companion usb device. OBE2 car dongles for example, or headphones or something else that talks via bluetooth won't work. apps playing music can be used with a bluetooth speaker paired with the sailfish os.

personally, I hate android and everything about it. each and every device I had to use sucks. the cheap once are cheap for a reason, they suck wrt specs and most of the time you are stuck with a 2year old version of android, locked and messed up by the mobile phones manufacturer. cyanogen and other mods are nice, but if you are lucky to get one, you might end up with unsupported hardware because the drivers or some other closed source crap was not portable.

there is also the neo900 and there are tizen phones out there in india, which should run some flavour of linux, too.

I've been looking at phones and come to the conclusion i'll just get the cheapest current android phone i can find - probably a galaxy s3 or 4 mini will do. I mainly want to be able to use some of the newer android apps, and have a slightly better UX than my symbian phone.

I did think that having a good video camera with image stabilization ( my symbian phone has a great camera but the video could do with some stabilization) , but i reaqlize it is not qa top priority now,  otherwise i would have to double my money - or more - to shell out for the top of the range. If i want to shoot video i think i will just buy a proper compact camera or camcorder in the future.

I'd like to try out an android phone before i start thinking of getting sailfish on one or buying a Jolla.  I was tempted to buy a maemo phone like the n900 which i have always wanted, before the Jolla was a reality, and having a 'real' linux (and running debian on the n900 ) is tempting, but i really just want a few of the cool apps my friends have and use and to be able to use them with more ease than an ageing, abandoned high end symbian phone.

When i've got to grips with Android i might consider getting sailfish on there. :)

Fri May 01 2015 15:17:08 EDT from mo

I got a phone. It's a Symbian phone. A nice phone! Nice camera! Looks and feels great, and some good apps. But Symbian is dead :(

Just wondered. I can remember someone saying they got a Jolla phone. What is you experience with it? I am thinking of getting one, or a Samsung galaxy type thing maybe??

I own a Jolla since xmas 2013 and I like it. It does what I want from a mobile phone, which is pretty basic stuff: Checking emails, occassionally answering them. Phone calls. Camera is ok, I use it mostly to store info, like serial numbers of devices and other stuff. Camera app is not like the one on an iphone, taking photos of kids only works fine if they are not moving too fast.

GPS is alright, map app has no voice commands and the route assistant is text only. But there is a HERE app for android. Android virtual machine is descent, unless you need bluetooth in android, which mostly does not work. 

You get a real terminal, bash and repos, so you can pretty much install everything you want. Heck, probably even Citadel.

There are some active coders for third party apps, there is a very nice working Pebble app.

The UX/UI is different from most other phone systems, but if you are able to handle and like a symbian, Jolla's swipe ui is no trouble for you. ;)

The updates come often, community feedback is heard, take a look at http://together.jolla.com for some examples.

They are releasing version 2 of the OS this year, with some changes to the UX. Take a tour around your favorite web video service for some optical impressions.

The hardware was already middle class when they released it in 2013, but is and was decent enough to drive the OS. It is not a resource hogging slug like android.

There is a hardware adaption kit, so if you run into some cheap used android gear you might have a good chance of installing Sailfish OS on it. IIRC, the requirement is that you can run cyanogen mode 10 on the android device. From there on you can transform the phone into a Sailfish phone, but without having the android vm on the finished install.

There is also a launcher for android on the store, so you can use your android with the look and feel of sailfish.

Feel free to ask any further questions.

https://sailfishos.org/develop/hadk/ <- The Hardware Adaption Development Kit

Fri May 01 2015 03:17:08 PM EDT from mo

I got a phone. It's a Symbian phone. A nice phone! Nice camera! Looks and feels great, and some good apps. But Symbian is dead :(

Just wondered. I can remember someone saying they got a Jolla phone. What is you experience with it? I am thinking of getting one, or a Samsung galaxy type thing maybe??

 

 

I have dropped my S4 to the ground more times than I can remember, but you might drop it once and break the glass if you do it right.

What is it you are looking for in a phone mo?

I got a phone. It's a Symbian phone. A nice phone! Nice camera! Looks and feels great, and some good apps. But Symbian is dead :(

Just wondered. I can remember someone saying they got a Jolla phone. What is you experience with it? I am thinking of getting one, or a Samsung galaxy type thing maybe??

And the "personalities" are named Wooky, Soul, Eggy, and Yoyo.  I want one named "Steve" that tries to turn your whole world into one big Minecraft game.

Hilarious!

Fuck the pseudo intelligent Keyboard With wrong language 

The starten out relabeling Siemens s4 and giving IT a Flipp Aside to pick up the Phone receiver cute After the continued With pretty ugly Plastik shitbricks they found their way out aquiring Ericsson after making half way nice smartphones their Android bekäme realy nice.

got myself a Z2. so far I really like it a lot.

Voice quality is very  good, the pics are really great.

http://www.thejollablog.com/jolla-releases-sailfish-os-hardware-adaptation-development-kit-android/

By following this guide you can set up a Mer – Core Based Linux that will run on Android device, on top of existing Android hardware and drivers. 

This sounds like you are able to convert an android (cyanogen mode 10.1 required) phone into a mer-core/sailfish based phone. Link from the article:

http://releases.sailfishos.org/sfa-ea/2014-07-18_SailfishOSHardwareAdaptationDevelopmentKit.pdf

via LXer: http://www.nuxified.org/article/free_software_that_helps_you_take_control_of_your_mobile_phone

It is a pity that only the Cuppertino based BSD distro really got it working with their own products. Which is quiet an art, when you compare it to the Redmond based disaster collection of software-posing-as-an-OS stretching across PCs and mobiles.

Nexus 5 is a sweet phone.

I gotta Sony Satio - which is one of the last symbian phones. Great phone no apps :)  I got 2 browsers on this one the default sony browser - very good , and the Opera mini browser -- webcit looks terrible in both :( , unusable . BUT! I just got a new mail client, a shareware one with 20+ days left, its cool i will probably buy it. I can now open all rooms as seperate mailboxes/imap folders on my phone which is way cool. I love  this room based flexibility  :)

"I'm Loving It!"  \o/

I use a Jolla phone. Or rather the Jolla phone as there is only one. I love it. http://jolla.com

It is a true linux phone but can run lots of android apps, since it has a virtual machine for that. Which I rarely use, but it does work nice enough for me.

My GF is happy with her Iphone 4 (not even S), I heard of other people that the Sony Z things are nice. Oppo sells android phones with Cyanogen mod preinstalled, so you are even google free, if you want, heard good stuff about them.

after being fed up with her samsung galaxy ace freezing, loosing GSM connectivity, and so on, my GF got herself a Sony Z, which she is happy with as can be.

cheap but very robust alternative seems to be the Moto G

I'm not yet all set whether i'm going to purchase a Z, Z1 or Z2 at the end of the month.

But but but... I thought Android was superb ubartastatic just because it is Linux?! Even without the GNU part, isn't that even more fantastic? What do you need the google for, then?

Oh, wait, the Google Service and the APIs and the Store and the nifty integration of all those beautiful flowers in the walled garden, right... 

So, let's face it: Vanilla Android is so damned crippled and useless by itself, that you have to sell your soul to Satan Google to make any use of such a device. About the same thing as this Cupertino base BSD flavour? Why are we talking about the freedom of Android again? It is as free as a farmer in the Sahara to grow it's own food. Hooray for freedom!

In other news: I am as happy as a pig in the mud with my Jolla, it does everything I want and looks good while doing so. Of all the 25+ installed apps in the AlienDalvik/Android VM, I only use my banks app. All the other apps look too ugly or are too useless. I am mostly stopping the vm and only turning it on when neede.

Picked up an X-Mass return for $31 recently:

http://www.microcenter.com/product/423567/A700_Tablet_-_Grey

Other than the fact it loves to drop the wifi connection continually and be generally slow, it has been a great Netflix watching tool and faster than booting up the laptop browsing, but generally worth about $31 or so :-) 

just ordered a replacement screen for my nexus 7 (committed suicide off a printer). I hope my husband can manage the replacement.

Tue Jan 07 2014 20:51:48 EST from vince-q

We need and Android app for Citadel !!!

I've said that, but to be fair WebCit works nicely on my Galaxy Tab

an adorable Sony Experia Z just landed here.

put simple:

WHEW.

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Nexus+7+Battery+Replacement/9895

Mon Jan 13 2014 03:42:25 PM EST from dothebart

well, since GPS is pure arithmetical calculation, there is no way to do it other than using an APU.

even my Garmin GPS appliance - an edge 705 - quadruppels its battery life once the signal is lost.

so, there is no 'real' GPS unit, what eats your battery is the floating point calculation, not the radio receiver for the GPS satelite radio signals.

I would imagine the Landauer's principle applies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle

It somehow makes me think of Nyquist sampling theorem, but the two are not related:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist%E2%80%93Shannon_sampling_theorem

Random rambling.

well, since GPS is pure arithmetical calculation, there is no way to do it other than using an APU.

even my Garmin GPS appliance - an edge 705 - quadruppels its battery life once the signal is lost.

so, there is no 'real' GPS unit, what eats your battery is the floating point calculation, not the radio receiver for the GPS satelite radio signals.

Yes, as for now, smartphones are incredibly dumb when it comes to situation awareness. Your android update basically clones an iphone feature, but even apple made it barely configurable. What I want is something like this: http://www.pastillilabs.com/Situations

Every day, we use our phones to change its behavior. But why wouldn't you let your phone do it for you:

• Forgot to switch to silent during meetings? 
• Have Music player opened when you connect your headphones. 
• Extend phone's battery life when not in use.
• Let your phone reply missed calls with SMS. 
• Receive SMS when your kids are leaving school and arriving at home.

 

You could configure this app to switch phone behavior based on gps position, wifi and cell phone network station, combined with time and day. What I additionally need would be support for contact groups, so some people could reach me at night when all other calls are blocked. Close family and friends should be able to ring when it is urgent, e.g. they need to be fetched up when their car broke or somebody is in the hospital. Or they won the jackpot and want to leave for a tax haven on some carribean island ...

This is in general something smartphones should learn, not all contacts are equally important. I do not want to receive calls/emails from clients on weekends, etc.

I'd rather have Citadel support all the common connections, like CardDAV, CalDAV and ActiveSync, so it could be integrated with the mobile OS. Email already works on most mobiles. After that, there might be room for an app.

Of course, Webcit needs to be more mobile friendly, too. 

I do have my Jolla mobile phone now since xmas and I love the UI and the UX. This whole swipe gestures idea makes one-handed use a bliss, every part of the UI is designed to be useable while walking, for example. No tiny buttons to aim and sharpshoot, no nonsense. I also have a terminal, root access and a real linux running beneath. I can actually ssh over wifi to the device. By default, without "rooting".

I also do have an alien dalvik/android emulator which runs rather fine, only some minor crashes. My problem now is, although there are some nice apps, the overall uglyness and the clutter and the "creative" gestalt of all the different android apps make me want to puke. We have an ipad and an iphone here at home and the overall aesthetics are lightyears beyond everything android. I would have to burn out my eyes out if I ever were forced to using android all the time. I actually do not want to use those apps. Evernote and Zite are examples of how to make a nice looking android app, ElectroDroid is so helpful that I can excuse the looks. Everything else should start from scratch. 

Can't believe IG just wrote "totes amazeballs"

installing cyanogen mod android seems to be a viable alternative for many phones...

how ever, its important how open the specs for the phone are, so they can compile own kernels.

it seems as if samsung is not all that good - at least the galaxy ace does work, but not well. it has not much internal flash, and without a new kernel, you're not able to install apps on the card...

without serious f*king with it, it seems the phone is unusable.

however, sony mobiles (oops?) do seem to be first class citizens here - all open - all spec available..

Seems HERE (former Navteq btw) is here to stay... Nokia kept that section and they are now licensing that service to other mobile phone manufacturers. Among them is http://jolla.com

And they are finally going to put that device on the market on November 27th in Helsinki. Can't wait to get mine.

Here are some more infos, since it seems that nobody here (at least in this room) cared to track them:

http://www.jollausers.com/2013/11/press-appsmaps-appello-builds-maps-for-sailfish-os/

Hands on/Demo Videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxv7iXwIgno

Full specs: http://jolla.com/#full-specs

And yes, it does run Android (tm) apps.

Greetings, your friendly ad-bot,

the_mgt ;)