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[#] Tue Jun 22 2021 06:18:46 EDT from Nurb432

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Oh, the windows didnt help lack of cooling.  ( they were sealed anyway ) it just made for a nicer place to work. Instead of the "dark dingy DC" many are stuck with.

 

Even tho in general i'm not a fan of sunlight, it worked for that room due to placement and tint.

Tue Jun 22 2021 01:50:14 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

I'm not sure windows matter if you lose your coolers in the middle of summer. We had the same problem in a DC in the very middle of the building. I guess we would have been MORE effed if there had been windows, but we were pretty effed none-the-less. 

A DC with windows would be a strange experience, though. 

 

Mon Jun 21 2021 19:47:35 EDT from Nurb432

One i worked in ( i had a room off the side of it, so it was part of it but not in the middle of it,  had windows to the outside.  Rarely seen a DC like that in my life, but made it a nice place to be. 

Except that one time the coolers went out, middle of summer... ( i told that story before. about the HP that they had to fly parts in from the west cost, or japan.. )



 



 



[#] Tue Jun 22 2021 15:49:52 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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I figured that Windows let heat in, and be less insulated about keeping cool in - and that is why most DCs just have walls, no windows. 

But... in either case, if you loose your cooling, you're hosed. 

 

Tue Jun 22 2021 06:18:46 EDT from Nurb432

Oh, the windows didnt help lack of cooling.  ( they were sealed anyway ) it just made for a nicer place to work. Instead of the "dark dingy DC" many are stuck with.

 

Even tho in general i'm not a fan of sunlight, it worked for that room due to placement and tint.

Tue Jun 22 2021 01:50:14 AM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

I'm not sure windows matter if you lose your coolers in the middle of summer. We had the same problem in a DC in the very middle of the building. I guess we would have been MORE effed if there had been windows, but we were pretty effed none-the-less. 

A DC with windows would be a strange experience, though. 

 

Mon Jun 21 2021 19:47:35 EDT from Nurb432

One i worked in ( i had a room off the side of it, so it was part of it but not in the middle of it,  had windows to the outside.  Rarely seen a DC like that in my life, but made it a nice place to be. 

Except that one time the coolers went out, middle of summer... ( i told that story before. about the HP that they had to fly parts in from the west cost, or japan.. )



 



 



 



[#] Tue Jun 22 2021 16:46:01 EDT from Nurb432

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Nah, they were heavy duty triple pane sort of affair like you would see on the 100th floor of a skyscraper. And you cant open them and were just solid. ( security reasons of course ). i bet they were better insulted than the walls were. 

My assumption is that area was not a DC in the beginning.  Building was built in late 50s .. long before any of that stuff. ( automotive plant, admin building part ) My guess was that is where the engineers were kept. Then computers came along, moved them downstairs, and walled off 1/2 the floor in that area to make the DC. The other 1/2 was still office space, for the 'computer guys' 

Now its just a gravel area. It was all torn down a few years ago.  Sad to drive past and it not be there.  Was a staple for so many decades. 

Another building i worked in, was also retrofitted like that. However they put the walls up about 10' before the window. So it was sort of a 'access area' with some tables and KVM type terminals. and not really part of the data center proper. 

Tue Jun 22 2021 03:49:52 PM EDT from ParanoidDelusions

I figured that Windows let heat in, and be less insulated about keeping cool in - and that is why most DCs just have walls, no windows. 

But... in either case, if you loose your cooling, you're hosed. 

 



[#] Wed Jun 23 2021 16:41:13 EDT from Nurb432

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"No, i didnt follow the process you documented, why do i have to do that in order for it to work right"



[#] Wed Jun 23 2021 20:44:09 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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Wrong room? 

Or... I guess at your workplace... right room. :) 

Thought this might be aimed at the Citadel Support room at first. :) 

 

Wed Jun 23 2021 16:41:13 EDT from Nurb432

"No, i didnt follow the process you documented, why do i have to do that in order for it to work right"



 



[#] Wed Jun 23 2021 20:54:26 EDT from Nurb432

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Nah, right room.  One of my users earlier today at the office ...  ( a tech user, not an end user. I expect more from them. I know i shouldn't )



[#] Wed Jun 23 2021 20:59:20 EDT from Nurb432

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Along the same lines of "following instructions", trying an old feature in my software for the first time. just wont work. Did everything i knew, including reading the directions. 2 of us fought with it for a couple of days. 

Finally get hold of some upper level tech support on the other side of the pond.  Showed him what we were doing and the document we were following. "oh, well that is wrong, that needs to be changed to say xyz instead"  really its been saying that for 10 years now, and countess versions? 

 

( directions basically said 'X does not work, but Y does, and setup Y this way.  In reality Y does not work and X does.. Which is setup differently than Y )

 



[#] Thu Jun 24 2021 09:05:11 EDT from Nurb432

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So one of our managerial KPIs is to provide a 'preferred workplace environment' to help attract new people and to retain current.  Ok, its a valid concept. Cant say i have seen a lot of changes come from this, but its at least a good idea. Each year we have an anonymous survey, and then the % is compiled and comments are taken back for possible 'improvements' next year.

This year, its 'in person' ( never a good policy when you want to critique management ), and its a week before everyone is scheduled to return to the office, with one day warning to boot..    what? wait? really?



[#] Thu Jun 24 2021 09:39:19 EDT from LoanShark

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just post your comments on glassdoor ;)

[#] Thu Jun 24 2021 09:47:21 EDT from Nurb432

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Knowing the guy for 20+ years i do think hes being honest about it and means well, but he's got a lot to learn about how people react to things.



[#] Thu Jun 24 2021 11:28:30 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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Ok... so... this is one of my pet peeves in the industry. People RTFM, it doesn't work, they re-read TFM, repeat it, it doesn't work. They repeat it again. 

Even with Citadel - part of what I did was ignored the instructions where I was having problems. I thought about it, and I tried what I *knew* instead of what I was reading. 

I learned this in like, 5th grade. I got a lego set, a big ol space-ship. I was trying to put it together, and I couldn't get past a part. I was frustrated to tears. Finally I called my Asian friend, Michael Shibata - over. He looked at it, had me explain what I was doing, show him what I was doing, then he read the instructions. He immediately went, "they're telling you to use a piece with 8 dots, but that is wrong - you need a piece with 10 dots for that to fit the front part to the back part right. 

Found the right piece, popped it in, and we had the thing together 10 minutes later. 

Do not trust the experts, or the authorities - when things aren't working the way they claim they do. 

As an engineer, the developers inevitably came to hate me - because I'd find the mistakes in their instructions and their code like a bloodhound - and they tend to have ego about being exposed like that by a lowly system engineer - being undermined in their Godlike aura with the middle management. Having their parlor tricks exposed. 


Wed Jun 23 2021 20:59:20 EDT from Nurb432

Along the same lines of "following instructions", trying an old feature in my software for the first time. just wont work. Did everything i knew, including reading the directions. 2 of us fought with it for a couple of days. 

Finally get hold of some upper level tech support on the other side of the pond.  Showed him what we were doing and the document we were following. "oh, well that is wrong, that needs to be changed to say xyz instead"  really its been saying that for 10 years now, and countess versions? 

 

( directions basically said 'X does not work, but Y does, and setup Y this way.  In reality Y does not work and X does.. Which is setup differently than Y )

 



 



[#] Thu Jun 24 2021 11:29:02 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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And I know, you can't always have the luxury of doing this - but where ever I can, I do whatever I can to make sure I do have this luxury. 



[#] Thu Jun 24 2021 14:15:42 EDT from Nurb432

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Between the 2 of us we have a little over 30 years experience with this POS system. I have for about 10, the other guy, worked for another company that used it, for about 15 years before coming here a couple of years ago.

He has not worked with this module, so he deferred to me " can you set this up". "well, this is how it should work, but its not doing diddly". Hard to explain in a short version, but this module bridges others.  I have never used it with his module, only mine, so never really tried it before 'that way'. But when that failed, we got together to look at it as a team ( which actually works for us, sometimes the other guy sees what the other had missed or just explaining it, oh ya, that one step, i missed ).  Still nothing. 

THEN we read the documentation. Which did agree with what we were doing..so we called the lead of the tech people in the company directly. ( bypassed their help desk ).

Apparently not many people use those 2 modules together, in the real world. So no one noticed the docs were wrong, or asked before. ( i assume they just did it the "wrong way", and it worked and didnt bother telling anyone )

 

Its a commercial product, and we dont have access to any code,. other than the stored procedures in the DB. Which didnt help us in this case. 



[#] Fri Jun 25 2021 00:51:17 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to infer that I found it irritating directly in relation to your predicament. Your story just made me think of times I experienced that sort of thing with my peers. In particular at Intel - I got a reputation as a "Maverick," because I do tend to go, "Well, this isn't working at all - let's try THIS..." 

I think IT needs RTFM -do-it-by-the-book-and-then-do-it-again-until-it-works types... but it also needs, "throw the book out and figure out how to get around whatever is wrong in the code," types, too. 

And yeah, a team absolutely gives you different perspectives that help find resolutions quicker - even if it is simply that you're so deep in your hole having someone look at it from outside - they might see something you're not because you're right on top of it. 

Once basically tore an entire machine down and rebuilt it and the NCR hardware guy found it was a bent SCSI pin causing the problem. Felt pretty stupid about not catching that 3 or 4 hours earlier. 

 

Thu Jun 24 2021 14:15:42 EDT from Nurb432

Between the 2 of us we have a little over 30 years experience with this POS system. I have for about 10, the other guy, worked for another company that used it, for about 15 years before coming here a couple of years ago.

He has not worked with this module, so he deferred to me " can you set this up". "well, this is how it should work, but its not doing diddly". Hard to explain in a short version, but this module bridges others.  I have never used it with his module, only mine, so never really tried it before 'that way'. But when that failed, we got together to look at it as a team ( which actually works for us, sometimes the other guy sees what the other had missed or just explaining it, oh ya, that one step, i missed ).  Still nothing. 

THEN we read the documentation. Which did agree with what we were doing..so we called the lead of the tech people in the company directly. ( bypassed their help desk ).

Apparently not many people use those 2 modules together, in the real world. So no one noticed the docs were wrong, or asked before. ( i assume they just did it the "wrong way", and it worked and didnt bother telling anyone )

 

Its a commercial product, and we dont have access to any code,. other than the stored procedures in the DB. Which didnt help us in this case. 



 



[#] Fri Jun 25 2021 10:57:16 EDT from Nurb432

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"You will want to come in for a couple of hours next week, i have heard people are taking equipment from the desks. If you hook your stuff up, they will be less likely to take them"

"And it lets you see what is left on your desk and if you are missing something will be more likely to get a replacement now, than when we all return in 2 weeks"

Really? Where do i work again, a daycare?



[#] Mon Jun 28 2021 10:54:31 EDT from Nurb432

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Well, went to go mark my territory today.  Me peeing on my desk didnt go over well. ( just kidding )

Seems im sitting in a walkway in one of the 'after thought' desks that were added after the original remodel and we ran out of space..  so downgraded.  as impossible as that sounds.   Oh well, only 3 days a week. I hope.



[#] Tue Jun 29 2021 14:12:57 EDT from ParanoidDelusions

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Mmm... yeah, uh... OK... so, uh we're going to have to relocate your workspace just as a temporary measure.  

 

Mon Jun 28 2021 10:54:31 EDT from Nurb432

Well, went to go mark my territory today.  Me peeing on my desk didnt go over well. ( just kidding )

Seems im sitting in a walkway in one of the 'after thought' desks that were added after the original remodel and we ran out of space..  so downgraded.  as impossible as that sounds.   Oh well, only 3 days a week. I hope.



 



[#] Tue Jun 29 2021 16:25:04 EDT from Nurb432

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Being moved down into the basement, or the back of the data center, would be ok by me.. permanently..

 



[#] Tue Jun 29 2021 19:18:59 EDT from LoanShark

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2021-06-28 10:54 from Nurb432
Well, went to go mark my territory today.  Me peeing on my desk
didnt go over well. ( just kidding )

Seems im sitting in a walkway in one of the 'after thought' desks
that were added after the original remodel and we ran out of
space..  so downgraded.  as impossible as that sounds.   Oh well,
only 3 days a week. I hope.


as long as you're not in the basement with a red stapler.

[#] Tue Jun 29 2021 19:48:22 EDT from Nurb432

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Is that bad? ( i assume its a TV show reference, and i dont watch much TV )



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