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[#] Thu Dec 29 2022 15:43:41 EST from Nurb432

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lol

Thu Dec 29 2022 02:28:57 PM EST from IGnatius T Foobar
I like systemd, and I also like Wayland, so pthphpbbphptgbphtphpbpthpbhh.




[#] Thu Jan 05 2023 12:17:01 EST from Nurb432

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Cross compiling an entire new system, including apps and a GUI, from scratch takes a bit. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Building Armbian from scratch on a x86 vm for a Jetson Nano. I really wish they would support the NX so i can get it off ubuntu. Sure i might be able to hack something together with enough effort, but it woudl be that, a hack, and break every time i sneeze..



( and as i flipped over to that terminal to check status i saw the wayland package float by. Where is my ASCII middle finger when i need it :P )



[#] Thu Jan 05 2023 14:57:05 EST from Nurb432

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Oooo . Snap sucks.

 



[#] Sat Jan 07 2023 09:48:45 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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Yes. Yes it does.

[#] Sat Jan 07 2023 09:56:33 EST from Nurb432

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Tried installing Armbian x86.. fail.   it booted ran thru the setup on USB.. then tried to install to internal drive..It was able to partition my drive, but then couldn't read the partitions after and fails. Try again it said no space left, delete manually, try.. fail..  Tried a couple of times. ( physical hardware. wasn't able to convert their img to iso.. )

Not that i would 'use' it on a regular basis, but their build suite only supports Armbian and Ubuntu hosts.. id like to get out of having Ubuntu VM dedicated to that..



[#] Mon Jan 16 2023 16:55:52 EST from Nurb432

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in an SBC forum, talking about Armbian builds: "What is Debian bullseye and what does Ubuntu jammy mean"?  and "what is GPG and SHA"

 

I think they need to find another hobby..



[#] Mon Jan 16 2023 20:08:16 EST from zelgomer

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2023-01-16 21:55 from Nurb432 <nurb432@uncensored.citadel.org>
in an SBC forum, talking about Armbian builds: "What is Debian
bullseye and what does Ubuntu jammy mean"?  and "what is GPG and
SHA"

 

I think they need to find another hobby..


To be fair, I can never remember the damn code names. And good luck finding a version to codename mapping on the shitty new website.

[#] Mon Jan 16 2023 20:10:46 EST from Nurb432

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its one thing not remembering its another asking what does it mean..

and sure, everyone is newbie at one point, but need to learn the basics swim you swim with the big buys..

 

 

Mon Jan 16 2023 08:08:16 PM EST from zelgomer
2023-01-16 21:55 from Nurb432 <nurb432@uncensored.citadel.org>
in an SBC forum, talking about Armbian builds: "What is Debian
bullseye and what does Ubuntu jammy mean"?  and "what is GPG and
SHA"

 

I think they need to find another hobby..


To be fair, I can never remember the damn code names. And good luck finding a version to codename mapping on the shitty new website.

 



[#] Mon Jan 16 2023 20:11:49 EST from Nurb432

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wtf...  how did it insert words in the wrong place.

 

"need to learn the basics before you swim with the big boys"

Mon Jan 16 2023 08:10:46 PM EST from Nurb432

its one thing not remembering its another asking what does it mean..

and sure, everyone is newbie at one point, but need to learn the basics swim you swim with the big buys..

 

 



[#] Tue Jan 17 2023 13:18:41 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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ummm ... it's on a plain html page, easily readable ...

[ https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases ]

At the time of this writing:
v11 = Bullseye = stable
v12 = Bookworm = testing

Perhaps they ought to put a link to that page in /etc/apt/sources.list

[#] Tue Jan 17 2023 14:27:09 EST from zelgomer

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2023-01-17 18:18 from IGnatius T Foobar <ajc@citadel.org>

ummm ... it's on a plain html page, easily readable ...

[ https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases ]

At the time of this writing:
v11 = Bullseye = stable
v12 = Bookworm = testing

Perhaps they ought to put a link to that page in /etc/apt/sources.list



Why do I have to go search a wiki to find information that should be on the front page?

Maybe I'm just being a curmudgeon because I hate debian.org's new design as of a few years ago. They used to have most of what you'd ever want to know right on the main page, or a link to it. Now the main page is a bunch of useless bullshit about community and philosophy and you have to dig or use the search function to find anything of any relevance.

[#] Wed Jan 18 2023 10:38:26 EST from nonservator

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ON THIS WEBSITE WE BELIEVE IN SCIENCE

NO DISTRO IS ILLEGAL

ALL ARE WELCOME EXCEPT HATERS

 



[#] Thu Jan 19 2023 12:06:58 EST from darknetuser

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2023-01-16 20:10 from Nurb432
its one thing not remembering its another asking what does it mean..


and sure, everyone is newbie at one point, but need to learn the
basics swim you swim with the big buys..


Hey, I have noticed that if you want to learn you have to mix with people who knows the trade. When I got started with computers I bought a lot of literature that was well above my level and tried to make the most out of it. It eventually worked, somehow. Same with the companies you frequent.

That said, showing at an advanced community and asking the very basics that are explained everywhere is a bad start. That is a bit of a mini-problem I have with rpiers. So many noobs are attracted by the small form factor of the pi and its price and end up asking stupid questions and clogging the communication channels with issues that are common knowledge for anybody who has used Linux for more than 6 months.

[#] Thu Jan 19 2023 12:08:38 EST from darknetuser

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Why do I have to go search a wiki to find information that should be

on the front page?

Because an UX motherfucker wanted to jerk off on some website template, and the new debian.org is the result.

[#] Thu Jan 19 2023 18:32:12 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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So many noobs are attracted by the
small form factor of the pi and its price and end up asking stupid
questions and clogging the communication channels with issues that are

common knowledge for anybody who has used Linux for more than 6 months.


Amen to that.

You can see it in the Citadel Support forum from time to time. Word got out a couple of years ago that Citadel is the most awesome software to run on a Pi to repatriate your data and communications -- and that's absolutely true -- but they show up asking questions that show they're just dipping their toes in the water and don't know their way around Linux. For that matter, they don't know much about running services on the Internet.

Happy to assist if they get stuck but do *some* of the 101-level learning.



(Also when you said "rpiers" I thought you meant people who attended Rennslear Polytechnic Institute ... people who ought to know their way around a computer.)

[#] Thu Jan 19 2023 18:51:25 EST from Nurb432

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I might have been ranting a bit ( and had a migraine that day ), but this is what i meant.

Thu Jan 19 2023 06:32:12 PM EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Happy to assist if they get stuck but do *some* of the 101-level learning.




 



[#] Thu Jan 19 2023 20:51:27 EST from LadySerenaKitty

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Yea, I saw some of those questions come up in Citadel Support while I was doing my work to make Citadel compile and run on FreeBSD.



[#] Sat Jan 28 2023 11:23:21 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

Subject: Ding dong, proprietary Unix is dead.

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(Warning: long form article! TL;DR you already know all this, but allow me to wax eloquent.)

Ding dong, proprietary Unix is dead.

Back in the late 1990s, the commercial Unix titans waged war, each tying to establish their place at the top of the heap, each trying to be "the" vendor that would win the Unix Wars. Sun, IBM, DEC, HP, and others fought for the love and money of the user community. Who won the Unix Wars? Unfortunately, the early victor seemed to be a junior varsity team from the pacific northwest whose pathetic offering wasn't even a Unix operating system. In that time, everyone in the trade press talked about "migrating to NT" as breathlessly as they now talk about "migrating to the cloud."

In fact, I remember someone right in this very forum saying of the future of Unix: "Microsoft will squash it like a bug" and later, "Linux will be Unix, or what's left of it." It was a dreary and hopeless-seeming chapter of computing history. Ironically, the reason I originally learned how to build multithreaded server software instead of servers launched by inetd was because I suspected I would eventually need to move to Windows. Thankfully, that never happened -- instead, a few years later, open source Unix began its incredible breakout success.

Today, the world runs on Linux, BSD, and open source software stacks of all types. Every part of the computing landscape except for one vendor's legacy desktop runs on some sort of Linux or BSD variant. How did this happen? We will leave that for the follow-up discussion (please be responsible and hit "Reply" rather than "Enter message" to keep the thread intact). I think it's time to bring up a couple of data points, then deliver a happy eulogy for the operating system that changed the world, and finally raise a toast to its open source progeny.

Why talk about it now?

Why now, you might ask? This has been going on for a while. We all know about it. So what's the point of talking about it in long form now? It's because we recently arrived at what some might call the final mile marker in the life of commercial Unix: IBM has moved all remaining AIX development jobs to India. From a purely "IBM behavior" perspective, this isn't a surprise -- the company we call "India Business Machines" has been sacking US workers and replacing them with offshore workers for a long time now. It's significant because AIX was the last remaining proprietary Unix that was still in active development by its vendor. By shifting the development to offshore code pounders, IBM has signalled that AIX is now in maintenance mode.

Let us now visit the "leaderboard" of the former titans.

  • IBM and AIX: as noted above, now in maintenance mode.
  • Sun and Solaris: effectively dead as of 2017, when Oracle laid off the core talent of the Solaris and SPARC teams. Solaris 12 was canceled and replaced with "Solaris 11.next" which basically put that operating system into maintenance mode.
  • DEC and Tru64 (formerly OSF/1 and Digital Unix): acquired by Compaq and then HP; ultimately discontinued by the vendor. For real.
  • HP and HP/UX (pronounced "H Pukes"): like the old man in Monty Python's "Holy Grail", it says it's not dead but it isn't fooling anyone. HP/UX is tied to Itanium, which is also in maintenance mode and will go cold in 2025.
  • SCO: hahahahahahahaha! Yeah, they're gone, but they'll probably zombie up every couple of years to sue someone. Not really relevant. Interestingly, they were briefly vaporwaring something called "OpenServer 10" which was to be based on FreeBSD, but that seems to have disappeared from their web site now.

And of course, all of this is ok.

In the dark and gloomy late 1990s, Brian Valentine said that when Windows finished vanquishing all other operating systems in every conceivable corner of the industry, Windows would become "the fabric of standard computing." We are thankful that this dystopia never came to pass. Instead, we really did establish a fabric of standard computing, but one that is collectively stewarded, one in which every component is swappable, one upon which new developments can be made by anyone with no first-party advantage. This is a Good Thing.

A few brilliant hackers at AT&T changed the world in 1969 when they developed an operating system whose fundamentals have stood the test of time. Even they agree that Linux and BSD are the progeny of the original Unix equally as much as its own commercial descendents (which, as previously demonstrated, are now dead). We have reason to celebrate.



[#] Sat Jan 28 2023 12:18:23 EST from LadySerenaKitty

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You forgot about IRIX.  SGI killed IRIX in their misguided attempt to go Intel (with the Itanium, ironically enough) thus alienating their core customer base.

 

Also, the whole "there is no market for consumer graphics" was laughable and even dead wrong, considering the CEO of SGI said this in 1998, 2 years post-release of the Nintendo 64, a stripped-down SGI InfiniteReality workstation.  PlayStation (the OG one, not the knockoffs Sony later produced) had ameowzing graphics (also a MIPS machine), and desktop "programmable" GPUs were already on the market.  Obviously, there was a huge demand in consumer graphics.



[#] Sat Jan 28 2023 14:11:02 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

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True that.  Pretty much any computer maker who bet the farm on Itanic failed hard.



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