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[#] Wed Jul 18 2018 20:20:24 EDT from mo @ Uncensored

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Does anybody ever get asked if they can type?

 



[#] Fri Jul 20 2018 11:45:59 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Only in email, and then anyone who can't type simply doesn't answer the question
:)

[#] Fri Jul 20 2018 11:55:42 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Subject: Are curses and terminfo obsolete?

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Question for the group ... particularly those who have been immersed in the unix world for a long time.

Is "curses" (including all variants such as ncurses, and related tech such as termlib/terminfo) still relevant?

It's been a long time since anyone has built a terminal, or terminal emulator, that was not ANSI/VT compatible. I'm seeing more and more utilities make use of things like color, reverse video, etc. without linking libtinfo to figure out the correct escape sequences for the user's terminal. This seems to imply that they're just spitting out ANSI/VT codes and assuming everyone has that kind of terminal now.

That's a safe assumption on pretty much any terminal program I've seen over the last 20 years or more.

So is it time to abandon curses and terminfo, and enjoy the standard? And/or has this already happened?

[#] Tue Jul 24 2018 14:31:59 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Hmmm... Gnu released 6.1 of ncurses this past January, so it isn't entirely dead, I should think.

[#] Wed Jul 25 2018 15:04:39 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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It's got to be maintained as long as there are programs (such as vi) using it. The question is whether *new* (no, not 'gnu') programs should bother using it.

[#] Thu Jul 26 2018 17:52:50 EDT from kc5tja @ Uncensored

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Curses is still relevant, if only because the ANSI/VT command sets (plural!) are so @#$*(%*($ing complicated, that *nobody* seems to get them right in any consistent manner. Except maybe the author of XTerm, but that's due to its age dating back to Babylonian times.

Both Screen and TMux implement command sets differently enough that curses still serves a useful purpose when running software under these environments.

[#] Fri Aug 03 2018 17:03:50 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Ironically, the use of Screen or TMux is a great way to run NON-curses software that assumes an ANSI/VT command set, under a terminal that uses some other command set. I remember the last time I had my Wyse terminal out and attached to Linux, it wasn't really usable unless I entered a Screen session. So we may already be there. :)

Ah, the 1980's ... Wyse terminals on the desks, DB-25 connectors on the walls, teflon-coated cable in the ceilings, and unix machines from Zilog, Fortune, Sperry, and Altos. Ethernet was a distant dream for me then.

[#] Wed Aug 08 2018 13:52:46 EDT from pandora @ Uncensored

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screen for life. Tmux is for losers.

[#] Wed Aug 08 2018 15:44:53 EDT from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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lusers

[#] Thu Aug 09 2018 23:21:14 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Remind me again why tmux even exists, when screen was already there?

[#] Fri Aug 10 2018 10:14:46 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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I tried using tmux, although I forget why.

I found screen worked better. But, again, I forget the detail. screen feels more solid to me than tmux.

[#] Fri Aug 10 2018 12:27:09 EDT from pandora @ Uncensored

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because some dolt thought screen could be improved upon.

[#] Tue Aug 14 2018 11:05:31 EDT from Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored

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2018-08-09 23:21 from IGnatius T Foobar
Remind me again why tmux even exists, when screen was already there?



You can ask that about a whole host of open-source projects. The whole "not invented here" thing is both a great strength and huge weakness.

[#] Thu Aug 16 2018 14:38:10 EDT from petabyte @ Uncensored

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om fleeb

I have.

equire a successful lawsuit.

[#] Fri Aug 17 2018 06:10:07 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Hmm... not sure what you mean there, petabyte.

I can't quite tell if that's a stream of thought posting, or a stream of text that accidentally leaked into a message posted here, heh.

[#] Fri Aug 17 2018 10:18:05 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Perhaps he/she/it wants to help you file a lawsuit against the developers of tmux, funded by 419 money?

[#] Tue Oct 23 2018 14:49:52 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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Fun find of the day:

checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c
./configure: 2582: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")")

It's fun because this works on Linux but not FreeBSD.

[#] Thu Oct 25 2018 11:36:35 EDT from fleeb @ Uncensored

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Hm.

Same shell? bash?

[#] Thu Oct 25 2018 14:28:27 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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autoconf was run on the same FreeBSD host so it should generate a script that uses a compatible shell.

I really want to get rid of autoconf completely. conf-IG-ure works on BSD but it uses some GNU Make features that I haven't figured out how to work around. I can probably get it to run under Bourne shell (sh not bash) though.

Ultimately I just want to rewrite all of my code so that it runs with as little configuration as possible. When the GNU Autotools were written decades ago, that was a pipe dream, but things are better now. Think of all the cruft that is still in sendmail to support transports and rewrites that haven't been used in many years, while Postfix and others managed to be far more streamlined by optimizing for an SMTP-dominated world. Likewise, I think we can safely drop support for building on Irix and HP/UX and 56-bit Honeywell.

Probably the most exotic unix-like system anyone would try to build most software on these days would be Mac OS. Hopefully anything that works on both FreeBSD and OpenBSD will work there too. I suspect even Windows will emerge as a compatible target in the next few years, if they decide that WSL is acceptable as a deployment platform and not just a development platform.

[#] Fri Nov 09 2018 15:47:16 EST from LoanShark @ Uncensored

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WSL is going to be supplanted *as a development platform* by Docker for Windows' new HyperV-hosted minimal linux kernel. But the latter is in a very raw state at the moment, so I'm avoiding it for now.

Unfortunately, Docker for Windows is not going to be an easy replacement for bash scripts that call docker-compose if there's any significant Linux dependency :(

MacOS apparently works better for some of this stuff... but right now I'm coming at you from Ubuntu running in a Virtualbox

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