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Freedom.
Well I like cars. BUT I don't like zoning laws, they can go.
You don't have the freedom to not buy a car. You cannot realistically live life without a car. And the law -- specifically zoning laws -- are set up to force this. Are you a property developer? Want to build retail property? Then you have to have a parking lot. By law. Want to build retail property that doesn't have a parking lot, and is pedestrian friendly? Sorry, but for over 90% of suburban and rural areas that is against the law. So everybody builds parking lots. Which makes everything more spread out by about 10x. Which means you have to drive if you want groceries. Which means you have to spend money on a car.
Freedom.
2024-12-22 00:57 from SouthernComputerGeek
Prisons are easier on the eyes than a modern McDonald's.
Really? I have not seen a McDonalds in a good while. It seems to me like the franchise is crumbling under its weight.
Id have to disagree with this as a blanket statement.
It really all depends on where you live.
Simple example: In the US, here in the burbs ( ick ) you can have food, clothes, and home supplies delivered, and these days its pretty much standard practice. Even a truck load of building supplies from the local hardware store, if you want to do some remodeling. If you need to go to the doctor or vet or something, you have medical transport, generic taxi and uber style ride options. If its an emergency, well they have these things called ambulances If you really need to be mobile for a couple of days for some reason, rentals are always an option, and many will deliver. Work can be more of an issue for many, but if you are retired or choose your job wisely you never go into the office either.
I personally know people in this area who have not driven in years.
You don't have the freedom to not buy a car. You cannot realistically live life without a car. And the law -- specifically zoning laws -- are set up to force this. Are you a property developer? Want to build retail property? Then you have to have a parking lot. By law. Want to build retail property that doesn't have a parking lot, and is pedestrian friendly? Sorry, but for over 90% of suburban and rural areas that is against the law. So everybody builds parking lots. Which makes everything more spread out by about 10x. Which means you have to drive if you want groceries. Which means you have to spend money on a car.
Freedom.
2024-12-27 23:12 from Nurb432
Subject: Re: Cars & freedom
Id have to disagree with this as a blanket statement.
It really all depends on where you live.
I think it also depends a lot on your expectations.
Delivery here works very badly, and if you order something to be delivered home chances are the transport will get lots upper in the valley. Geolocation tech does not seem to help a lot since navigation systems don't have this area mapped. If you want to buy something you need to move down to the grocery store.
Now, here is the thing. If I was a retiree and had nothing better to do with my time I could take a couple of hours to walk down to the town and do the groceries, then return home - the circuit is quite nice because you get to hello many horses and donkeys on the way. The bad news is time has a tendency to be scarce and therefore the fact a car allows you to do it all in less than an hour is too much of a luxury to pass on.
Then there is the fact I tend to move plenty merchandise and I am not loading it on my back.
On the other hand, the overwhelming most of my friends don't drive at all. Some bought their car so somebody else in the family could use it but never use it themselves. One of them actually got his car just because you are prety much not getting a girlfriend otherwise.
Oh, of course. but its still all about location :)
Here, delivery works well and is pretty accurate. Only time we see stuff not get here is when its something 'extra' like UPS or Fedex, not the 'daily necessities' we are talking about here. But for those that want to get their own stuff, within a 2 mile radius there are a couple of restaurants, 3 gas stations, a dollar general and a dollar tree, auto parts store.. One time some 20 years ago actually used that to my advantage, my alternator died, only had 2 cars at the time, wife was gone, so i just walked down and got one instead of waiting. Tho today, could have had it delivered same day.. times have changed. And while i'm lazy now, i have walked to one local restaurant a few times for tenderloins. ( its a Hoosier thing, you wouldn't understand :) ) Unless you are old and or sickly the basics are here with a short walk or bicycle ride on a nice day.
But, expand that to 5 miles, then you get 2 chain grocery stores, more restaurants, 2 drug stores. a gun store ( used to be about 2 blocks away ) another auto parts store, medical center ( used to be a grocery, before the chain moved in and ran them out of business on pricing ), and plenty more, even 2 used car dealers :). Post office.. everything one would need. And the local high school.. where most of the kids just walk, don't bother with the bus. And that helps greatly with the delivery options beyond the 'big ones' like USPS, UPS, Amazon, etc. since its not really that far.
And not to start up my rant again ( going to try to tone that down, everyone knows i'm pissed and need out of here ) where i live isn't a 'true suburb' yet. We were a semi-rural town and reflect that at our roots, but as sprawl continues to eat us, there will be more 'store options' within walking distance, and short delivery service. I used to live in the town north a few years ago, which was already paved over. From my apartment just a matter of blocks not even miles were 3 strip malls, a 'huge' mall, and all the outlying stores you get with that, including 2 groceries. Plus a couple of office buildings for both general businesses and even doctors, so work could have easily been non-driving and still say "professional", not retail. ( now there is a hospital 1/2 mile from there, there was still some trees.. cant have that.. )
While i was speaking from my personal situation here, i guess if you get closer to the big city and into the more built out 'burbs' traditional bus-lines also become an option to get to town for 'work'. Not a fan, so didnt think of that earlier. We have something here, but its not as structured, little mini busses that seem to just go around randomly, even into the housing areas, but they wont leave the county so the big city for work isn't an option, unless you have them drop you at the county line and transfer i guess.. But they do exist, so need to include them as an option for the ' i need to get out ' events.
I have heard there are lots of areas in the UK that are similar. Everything you need is 'close enough' for most residents to just walk to or have someone drop stuff off.
inner city, if you are in the right spot, same story but even more pronounced: everything you need is within walking distance or a carrier. Plus jobs of all kinds. I have a couple of friends that live up in town since the 80s, never owned a car. From my office downtown, everything i could need was within walking distance under a mile. Food, clothing, drugs ( legal kind :P ), hospital/medical, housing, recreation ( movies and concerts halls, stadium, and such, not that i'm into it ). Even a furniture store was a couple of blocks away.
Country life, like i grew up in, now that is a different story of course. When you are a 30 min drive away from the nearest anything, even delivery becomes less practical. Not impossible, but not as practical. ( not including farmers, they need transport as part of daily life ) One of my daughters live out in a true rural area ( ironically where i wanted to buy land in the 90s.. still kick myself ) and they are about 20 mins from the "town", with limited options ( dollar general, gas, a bank, liquor store, some rotted out buildings on the square, and no grocery now ) and 40 mins to the next 'real' town. But. i have seen amazon trucks and a pizza delivery car in the area on occasion so its not totally out of the question to move to a delivery mostly model.
And, since my wife likes to order food from the grocery, ( even tho i go ) and i rarely go into the office, even myself now, it might be a week or 2 before i actually drive at times. And 2/3 of the time i do, i *could* have walked, if i really wanted to.
I think it also depends a lot on your expectations.
Delivery here works very badly,
Simple example: In the US, here in the burbs ( ick ) you can
have food, clothes, and home supplies delivered, and these days
its pretty much standard practice.
That sort of misses the point.
When we build vast tracts of housing that are only reachable (within reason) by roads, we eliminate the walkability of that community. You cannot get groceries and other supplies without *someone* using a vehicle.
There is something to be said about the utility of a walkable community where everything you could reasonably need is available in-town and you're there too. You lose out on other things, though, like the tranquility of a quiet neighborhood.
You make your choice and take the tradeoffs, I guess. I love my part of the 'burbs with acre zoning, but if we had to stop driving there is no doubt we would have to give it up.
There are utopianists who speak of so-called "15 minute cities" built from scratch with a deliberacy towards putting everything within reach. Highly planned communities. They get a bad reputation becaue some of the utopianists also want to force everyone to live in such a place. There is no one size fits all.
Here its just the opposite. ( forgetting inner city for a moment ) Every one of these housing developments ( average 300 houses ), by design get land allocated around them which is pre-zoned for retail for after the housing is finished. Most often duplicate services for the last development built across the street. So the distance is actually being reduced since each 'area' gets its essential services. Then stack them up side by side. i could go into a rant about the developers using that 'pretty grassy area to isolate you form the roads' as marketing and not telling you in 2 years you will have a strip mall next door to your house.. Speaking from experience on that one, got burnt on one house i built. They flat out lied to me about future plans. Filed suit and made them eat the house in the end. But the result is the plans are there before these places are built. Sure, not so much to reduce distance, but to push products and sell land. But result is the same.
To me, he was claiming that "the average Joe must own a car to be free". I just disagree with that assessment as a blanket statement. Sure, systemic transport is needed as a societal foundation, nothing else gotta get supplies moved to factories and products delivered to the store, so i do agree with that, but an individual citizen may not need to own a car in many cases for 'daily life', and the need is being reduced daily in many areas. ( exceptions not withstanding of course )
That sort of misses the point.
When we build vast tracts of housing that are only reachable (within reason) by roads, we eliminate the walkability of that community. You cannot get groceries and other supplies without *someone* using a vehicle.