Language:
switch to room list switch to menu My folders
Go to page: [1] 2
↑↑↑ Old messages ↑↑↑            ↓↓↓ New messages ↓↓↓
[#] Sun May 15 2016 20:17:39 EDT from zooer

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

FIRST!  

 

I have never wanted to do that so I just did.  I couldn't let this room die, it means so much to the kids in the orphanarium.



[#] Mon May 16 2016 01:34:10 EDT from ax25

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

What the what, what is this room anyway?

[#] Mon May 16 2016 07:02:02 EDT from zooer

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Digital Toilet Paper of course.



[#] Mon May 16 2016 09:11:32 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

There was a brief period during which lots of people had computers, but Al Gore had not yet invented the Internet.  During this in-between moment in history, people composed newsletters and such on their own computers, then printed them onto slices of dead tree and mailed them out to people, who allegedly read them.   This was called "Desk Top Publishing" and apparently we had a room to talk about it at some point.  Since it is a directory room, it was immune to THE DREADED AUTO-PURGER (which is not nearly as aggressive as he used to be).



[#] Tue May 17 2016 00:23:55 EDT from ryan42

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

So let's talk about DTP... I'm using InDesign these days, but is anyone still hanging on to Quark?

[#] Tue May 17 2016 14:34:54 EDT from wizard of aahz

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

It could be worse. You could be using Ventura or PageMaker.

[#] Tue May 17 2016 21:44:24 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

I liked PageMaker!  It was great ... until Adobe bought the product and subsequently drove it into the ground.

But nothing beat The Print Shop!  (Which, apparently, is still around.  Weird.)



[#] Thu May 19 2016 16:00:46 EDT from wizard of aahz

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

I used Pagemaker quite a bit int he early eyares of DTP.. 1990 or so.

[#] Tue Jun 07 2016 01:51:37 EDT from ax25

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Ah, that is what I thought, but was afraid to ask.  Desk top publishing.  I know something about it, but could never afford it (Sinclair / Timex / Apple I - et all).  Fired in to programming before all that took off.  I do know a teacher that still longs for a free upgrade to Quark for himself and his collaborator (both Mac users), so if anybody has any ideas, feel free to fling forth.

I don't think he would do Scribus, but I did not put that forth yet.  Older than me, so might not like the learning curve involved.



[#] Sat Dec 26 2020 19:40:59 EST from Nurb432

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Calamus for the win!

( and a monochrome monitor on that ST )



[#] Sun Dec 27 2020 18:57:05 EST from ParanoidDelusions

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Do you know that the ST/Amiga rivalry still goes on today? 

As someone who owned a 520ST, a 1040ST and an Amiga 2000 at the same time, I've always had a fondness for both, for different reasons. 

I generally lean toward the Amiga side of the fence - but there are things the ST is absolutely superior at... 

And... the ST had the first real multi-node FPS ever - MidiMaze. 

 

Sat Dec 26 2020 19:40:59 EST from Nurb432

Calamus for the win!

( and a monochrome monitor on that ST )



 



[#] Mon Dec 28 2020 12:29:16 EST from nonservator

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

"Print Shop was good enough for my grandpappy"



[#] Mon Dec 28 2020 19:03:08 EST from Nurb432

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

yes. and as we fought among our selves and not watching, IBM and Microsoft blew past us and took the market..

I was ( still am i guess ) an Atari guy.

 

Apparently, you can still buy Calamus.. never dreamed.

 

Sun Dec 27 2020 18:57:05 EST from ParanoidDelusions

Do you know that the ST/Amiga rivalry still goes on today? 

As someone who owned a 520ST, a 1040ST and an Amiga 2000 at the same time, I've always had a fondness for both, for different reasons. 

I generally lean toward the Amiga side of the fence - but there are things the ST is absolutely superior at... 

And... the ST had the first real multi-node FPS ever - MidiMaze. 

 

Sat Dec 26 2020 19:40:59 EST from Nurb432

Calamus for the win!

( and a monochrome monitor on that ST )



 



 



[#] Mon Dec 28 2020 19:32:32 EST from IGnatius T Foobar

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Not so fast. Remember that Microsoft's first attempt at monopoly failed.
When Bill Hitler Gates predicted that there would only be one kind of computer in the future, he wasn't talking about the IBM PC; he was talking about the MSX platform. In the West it never even took off.

IBM's domination of the space was inevitable because of their influence at the time.

[#] Mon Dec 28 2020 23:22:34 EST from ParanoidDelusions

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Atari was honestly falling behind from the start - and the MegaST and later lines never got a real good niche market beyond the music industry. I'm not sure of the details of the specific technical liabilities - but all you have to do is play a side-scrolling port like Great Giana sisters - and understand this was a time when side-scrollers were dominant, to understand why Atari was going to lose the war first. 

Amiga started to react and develop competitive technology, but it was too late - and they lost the advantage of being the *affordable* alternative as SVGA and audio cards allowed the PC to replace the Amiga as the premier gaming platform desired by gaming-geeks everywhere. When I saw Wing Commander II in SVGA with digital audio cut-scenes - I knew the Amiga was dead in the water. 

Both companies were grossly mismanaged and had too much infighting and no unified vision by the end too. 

There were tons of other factors too. Marketing and accessibility were huge drivers back then. If the nearest Atari or Amiga retailer was 45 minutes minimum away from the majority of the local population - it made selling your parents on an Amiga or ST a difficult sale. 

It is interesting that Microsoft allowed Apple to blow right by while it was consumed with the business market for PDAs, actively trying to distance itself from the home and leisure market. You would think the 8 and 16 bit wars would have taught them that if you get all the home users to buy into your ecosystem, the business buyers are almost guaranteed to follow suit, simply because the biggest userbase will be familiar with your system/platform and ready to start being productive with it.

If WindowsCE had developed itself as a portable gaming, music and media platform as it transitioned into Windows Mobile - everyone might not be on iPhones today. 


Mon Dec 28 2020 19:03:08 EST from Nurb432

yes. and as we fought among our selves and not watching, IBM and Microsoft blew past us and took the market..

 

 

 


 



 



[#] Tue Dec 29 2020 07:42:03 EST from Nurb432

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

I place the blame of Atari's downfall on the Tramiel brothers. They ran it into the ground due to mis-management and inability to market. They were NOT their father, and were incompetent. I still feel Atari had some of the best tech around at the time ( ever touched a falcon? or an ATW? ) but when you dont tell people about your products, ( the jaguar was a marketing disaster, and how many people other than insiders even knew about the portfolio or lynx? ) or cancel upcoming products, like the ST Book, after you spend the research money.. how can you survive as a tech company?

Of course Nintendo pulling their shenanigans in stores that pushed out the profitable consoles didnt help either, but it wasn't the final blow, it was management ( as it often is )

Mon Dec 28 2020 23:22:34 EST from ParanoidDelusions



Both companies were grossly mismanaged and had too much infighting and no unified vision by the end too. 




[#] Tue Dec 29 2020 07:57:32 EST from Nurb432

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Oh, and no i'm not bitter.. not at all..   :) 



[#] Tue Dec 29 2020 14:06:08 EST from ParanoidDelusions

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

The Tramiel's were an interesting impact on early technology, without a doubt. The story of Commodore is really the story of Jack - and the Amiga and ST are both legacies on his influence in both Atari and Commodore. 

I think there was a LOT going on at that time. Time Warner caused huge damage to Atari as a brand... as soon as bean-counters got involved in the companies and big corporations started seeing the promise of HUGE profits - things started to go sideways. The fallout from the glut of crapware for the Atari 2600 even had its impact. Customers became far more skeptical between say, 1979 and 1984 about consoles and PCs, and by the late 80s and early 90s, were actually growing very sophisticated in their personal computing decisions. 

A lot of it was the inevitable shakeout of some of the pioneers in any new industry, and the establishment of dominant marquees that manage to get the majority of control of the market. 
Business growth is one of those things where the company that thrives at a smaller scale may just not have the complete package to make it to the next level of growth. It is kind of like my argument about "The Year of the Linux Desktop." 

If the Amiga or ST had taken the route necessary to survive, thrive and be the dominant platform today - Atari or Commodore would have become basically Apple or the WinTel duopoly - as far as their corporate identity is concerned. The end result would have been very similar - just different names attached to the things that became default standards. So it might have just come down to management decisions - but we probably would despise the management teams and their decisions that would have lead to a different outcome, regardless. 

 

 

Tue Dec 29 2020 07:42:03 EST from Nurb432

I place the blame of Atari's downfall on the Tramiel brothers. 



[#] Tue Dec 29 2020 18:45:29 EST from Nurb432

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

Yes. Jack i have respect for. His sons, not in the slightest. 



[#] Tue Dec 29 2020 20:39:43 EST from ParanoidDelusions

[Reply] [ReplyQuoted] [Headers] [Print]

He perplexes me. He is absolutely the Anti-Moore, the Anti-Gates, the Anti-Jobs. He was the antithesis of everything they were. 

But possibly the most influential to the early success of home computing of all of them.