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[#] Fri Feb 03 2017 17:57:06 EST from Pingumann @ Uncensored

Subject: IGNORE - Re: Uninstall Citadel

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Fri Feb 03 2017 17:38:50 EST from Pingumann @ Uncensored Subject: Uninstall Citadel

Hi all,

Citadel installed on a Ubuntu 16.04: Linux version 4.4.0-042stab120.16 (root@kbuild-rh6-x64.eng.sw.ru) (gcc version 4.4.6 20120305 (Red Hat 4.4.6-4) (GCC) ) #1 SMP Tue Dec 13 20:58:28 MSK 2016, Ubuntu 16.04.1 LTS, xenial.

The quick install (sudo ./install.sh) was followd with all the defaults. At the very ast, it exited with the line that listening on 80 is already by another application.

As the configuration files to set up a virtual site for citadel.conf in the:

1. /var/www/vhosts/default/htdocs and in the

2. /etc/citadel

were configured for port 80, it was expected to be able to be set up for port 2000. Nothing changed. (sudo service apache2 restart was done).

No files were found in:

3. /etc/apache2/sites-available and

4. /etc/apache2/sites-enabled.

The default virtual setup of Ubuntu 16.04 uses this config. Citadell did something quit of its own. Note that apache was selected as webserver in the install.

Then "sudo apt remove citadel-suite" was done.

It was reported to be done, and after that "sudo apt purge citadel-suite", "sudo apt update", and "sudo apt autoremove" was run to clean the system.

A new installation was strted. None of the options selections were asked again as was in the very first installation. It just runs te installation without any questions or options selection.

How can the very first installation state be started again?

 

 

Please ignore. See next post.

 



[#] Sat Feb 04 2017 12:02:49 EST from ura @ Uncensored

Subject: gentoo ebuild outdated

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Hi. I can't build citadel on gentoo. It give 404 error. Also it is very hard to find any versioning info. Please help installing latest (9.02??) release on gentoo. sunrise overlay is outdated

 



[#] Sat Feb 04 2017 20:00:16 EST from ura @ Uncensored

Subject: support email not working

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support email themgt@mail.ru  is not working - mail is returning. WTF with this project? Totally dead??? ebuilds dead, no any version info



[#] Sat Feb 04 2017 20:29:27 EST from warbaby @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: support email not working

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Whoa there big fella..  try ezinstall.. 

wget -q -O - http://easyinstall.citadel.org/install | sh
 

 

Sat Feb 04 2017 08:00:16 PM EST from ura @ Uncensored Subject: support email not working

support email themgt@mail.ru  is not working - mail is returning. WTF with this project? Totally dead??? ebuilds dead, no any version info



 



[#] Sat Feb 04 2017 20:48:47 EST from platonov @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: support email not working

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This project is basically dead and has been virtually dead for years.

There are so many problems with it that you can write a book size list of it.

There is only one guy, the original developer, who answers some questions once in a while, but it looks like the guy is too old and has no longer any energy to carry the entire complexity of myriads of quite comlex issues.

When I see all these questions that show up here and are emailed to me, most of the time those hopeless messages arrive at exactly the worst time possible when I am facing some urgent issue, and then, all of a sudden, my email client shows a popup about the email arriving. When I look at it, it is something between a pity and laughable, when you see them asking all the esoteric questions about the pretty complex issues that by themselves require years of experience and expertice.

It is pretty sad because I still think that the basic idea is excellent: to unite email server with blogs, groups and email types of info display in a single, very easily configurable and installable package.

But it looks to me the architecture is fundamentally wrong and the code was developed as a bunch of patch work "features" and so on. We even have a nearly a battle with one of devs who does not show up here for years where he tried to prove that the mechanism of exceptions is just a pile of crap. He prolly did not have a clue that precisely becasue of exceptions the IBM was commonly recognized as the most stable O/S there is.

Just to display a web page via Webcit interface you'd have to wait for minutes, probably simply because to load a single page thay are loading tens of various pages a dozen of "highly specialized" style sheets and so on. So, when you switch to your server tab for Citadel, get ready to waste a half an hour if you want to review and/or move around some pages.

To this day, the server works for me only one way, like it can send an email, but can not receive or vice versa, don't remember now and do not wish even to bother to see it. Now, if I would ask a question here why is it happening, I'd probably get some "answer" that needs a PhD in CS and system development level or at least a sysadmin with 5 years of experience.

So, after all these years, I can not trust my own email server and use it instead of using some external email server, which was one of the first reasons why I chose to install precisely a Citadel server - prolly the easiest email server install I have ever seen.

So, looks like the time has come to call things by their name and tell all those who have all sorts of issues, and they are truck loads of them, straight in their face and be honest about it.

Once dead, just face it and stop pretending that it is alive and you can actually resolve those tons of issues, which will require quite a team of fresh devs full of energy to actually do something and who have enough understanding and competence in terms of system architecture, performance, reliability and so on.

Sat Feb 04 2017 20:00:16 EST from ura @ Uncensored Subject: support email not working

support email themgt@mail.ru  is not working - mail is returning. WTF with this project? Totally dead??? ebuilds dead, no any version info



 



[#] Sat Feb 04 2017 21:20:20 EST from warbaby @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: support email not working

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Man the main thing here to keep in mind, it's free software.  If ti's not working for you, you know, how much can you really complain? 

I won't deny your perspective outright, but let's be realistic. Not every one should be running a mail server.

The project is certainly not dead in any way.. Small proj, understaffed okay, but not even close to being dead.  a new webcit is on the way and last git check-in for citserver was Wednesday. http://code.citadel.org/?p=citadel.git;a=summary .. if anything, some documentation needs updating.  That's mainly what you're seeing. 

I'm a Citadel user. It's a community. I've made small contributions and do what I can to help, but can't recreate everyone's custom Gentoo environment or whatever. There are only a few C programmers on the project. Distros upgrade and change packages and break things.  So, we make some suggestions.  If someone wants to go with it, great.  If they can't handle it, they should go to a gmail account or something else. No one is being forced to install Citadel.  So, it's pointless to be upset at it.  If the software doesn't meet your expectations, find something that does. 

But for those who hang in there, get to know it's quirks... it's a great, free, high-performance mail server.

 

 

 

Sat Feb 04 2017 08:48:47 PM EST from platonov @ Uncensored Subject: Re: support email not working

This project is basically dead and has been virtually dead for years.

There are so many problems with it that you can write a book size list of it.

There is only one guy, the original developer, who answers some questions once in a while, but it looks like the guy is too old and has no longer any energy to carry the entire complexity of myriads of quite comlex issues.

When I see all these questions that show up here and are emailed to me, most of the time those hopeless messages arrive at exactly the worst time possible when I am facing some urgent issue, and then, all of a sudden, my email client shows a popup about the email arriving. When I look at it, it is something between a pity and laughable, when you see them asking all the esoteric questions about the pretty complex issues that by themselves require years of experience and expertice.

It is pretty sad because I still think that the basic idea is excellent: to unite email server with blogs, groups and email types of info display in a single, very easily configurable and installable package.

But it looks to me the architecture is fundamentally wrong and the code was developed as a bunch of patch work "features" and so on. We even have a nearly a battle with one of devs who does not show up here for years where he tried to prove that the mechanism of exceptions is just a pile of crap. He prolly did not have a clue that precisely becasue of exceptions the IBM was commonly recognized as the most stable O/S there is.

Just to display a web page via Webcit interface you'd have to wait for minutes, probably simply because to load a single page thay are loading tens of various pages a dozen of "highly specialized" style sheets and so on. So, when you switch to your server tab for Citadel, get ready to waste a half an hour if you want to review and/or move around some pages.

To this day, the server works for me only one way, like it can send an email, but can not receive or vice versa, don't remember now and do not wish even to bother to see it. Now, if I would ask a question here why is it happening, I'd probably get some "answer" that needs a PhD in CS and system development level or at least a sysadmin with 5 years of experience.

So, after all these years, I can not trust my own email server and use it instead of using some external email server, which was one of the first reasons why I chose to install precisely a Citadel server - prolly the easiest email server install I have ever seen.

So, looks like the time has come to call things by their name and tell all those who have all sorts of issues, and they are truck loads of them, straight in their face and be honest about it.

Once dead, just face it and stop pretending that it is alive and you can actually resolve those tons of issues, which will require quite a team of fresh devs full of energy to actually do something and who have enough understanding and competence in terms of system architecture, performance, reliability and so on.

Sat Feb 04 2017 20:00:16 EST from ura @ Uncensored Subject: support email not working

support email themgt@mail.ru  is not working - mail is returning. WTF with this project? Totally dead??? ebuilds dead, no any version info



 



 



[#] Sun Feb 05 2017 11:54:20 EST from bennabiy @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: support email not working

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If anyone wants to complain, they can write their own software. You can almost tell how old someone is by their response to situations... I have found Citadel to be wonderful, and actually, the only issues I have had is because there is progress being made, which takes bug reporting and squashing to work out for the good of all. 

Once someone contributes, and gives it their all, ... well even then they shouldn't complain.

Sat Feb 04 2017 21:20:20 ESTfrom warbaby @ Uncensored Subject: Re: support email not working

Man the main thing here to keep in mind, it's free software.  If ti's not working for you, you know, how much can you really complain? 

I won't deny your perspective outright, but let's be realistic. Not every one should be running a mail server.

The project is certainly not dead in any way.. Small proj, understaffed okay, but not even close to being dead.  a new webcit is on the way and last git check-in for citserver was Wednesday. http://code.citadel.org/?p=citadel.git;a=summary .. if anything, some documentation needs updating.  That's mainly what you're seeing. 

I'm a Citadel user. It's a community. I've made small contributions and do what I can to help, but can't recreate everyone's custom Gentoo environment or whatever. There are only a few C programmers on the project. Distros upgrade and change packages and break things.  So, we make some suggestions.  If someone wants to go with it, great.  If they can't handle it, they should go to a gmail account or something else. No one is being forced to install Citadel.  So, it's pointless to be upset at it.  If the software doesn't meet your expectations, find something that does. 

But for those who hang in there, get to know it's quirks... it's a great, free, high-performance mail server.



[#] Mon Feb 06 2017 10:07:18 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: support email not working

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Hello everyone. Citadel is alive and well. If you are unsatisfied with the speed at which our community resolves issues, I'd like to remind you that list price for Exchange Server + SharePoint will run you in the thousands of dollars, but if you require immediate support it might be worth the money to pay someone to take care of you instead of participating in the open source community.

The area where there currently does appear to be some trouble is in packages/distributions.
This is difficult to manage because on one hand there is tremendous value in being able to offer distribution-native packages that can be called up at will; but on the other hand it depends on the workload and energy of the package maintainer. Some packages are better than others.

I wonder if it would make more sense to build a meta-package that simply satisfies all of the prerequisites and then calls Easy Install.

We recently moved to a rolling-release model specifically for the purpose of getting fixes out to the community faster. The process of a "release cycle" is good for a project with a lot of developers, but when you just want to get a quick fix out for some issue a user found, it slows you down by weeks or months.

So what's actually happening with Citadel these days?

* Uncoincidentally, much of the work in 9XX has been focused on reducing Citadel Server's footprint on the host filesystem. Moving the configuration and control structures into the database, along with things like network configs, user profiles, etc. is an important part of being able to close the gap between a Citadel server installed from source (or Easy Install), and a Citadel server installed from packages.

* As previously mentioned, WebCit is getting a major overhaul. This is why it might seem that there's little going on, if all you follow is the actual release track. If you follow the "webcit-ng" branch [https://goo.gl/mPuKWJ] you'll see that it's being actively developed. This effort began last summer and it's going to take some time to complete, because it's being carefully built layer-by-layer with a "REST/DAV first" philosophy.


s

[#] Mon Feb 06 2017 13:30:57 EST from bennabiy @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: WebCit

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I would like to work out some of the bugs in WebCit. Right now, if a system has LDAP as auth mechanism, Address book entries do not display correctly, whether in the GAB or in a contact room.

 

Also, with LDAP entries, there is no "user" in the system so inviting people to rooms etc, has empty lists and even trying the GAB causes errors without stripping out the email portion of the name.

 

I have a test machine set up right now which I can debug and test bleeding edge code on without hurting anyone... (I hope)

 

 



[#] Tue Feb 07 2017 05:51:46 EST from bennabiy @ Uncensored

Subject: GOTO

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How do I target a nested Mail folder in order to delete the contents and folders / rooms?

 

I have tried different GOTO commands, but cannot get the syntax right to target the subdir.

 

Say INBOX/SubFolder/Dir/Target ... Obviously _MAIL_ targets INBOX, and GOTO SubFolder works, but I cannot go any deeper than that. 



[#] Tue Feb 07 2017 05:52:51 EST from bennabiy @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: GOTO

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Regarding my last post, this is for a system script to delete a trouble folder for a user. (using nc citadel.host.name 504 )

 



[#] Wed Feb 08 2017 10:51:52 EST from bennabiy @ Uncensored

Subject: Citadel lost _BASEROOM_

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Empty message



[#] Wed Feb 08 2017 11:56:30 EST from bennabiy @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: Citadel lost _BASEROOM_

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I created a folder called 1ToDo_Messages or something like that through thunderbird which shortly changed names to ages in my client, and in the edit room info.

Then I tried to delete that room and it told me I could not do that. Then I had the thought that the room was called somehow 00000000001.blah

 

After trying to rename and delete it, I somehow have no page for _BASEROOM_ anymore.

 

How can I fix this? My users only see a white Not found screen.

Wed Feb 08 2017 10:51:52 EST from bennabiy @ Uncensored Subject: Citadel lost _BASEROOM_
Empty message



 



[#] Fri Feb 10 2017 09:06:14 EST from the_mgt @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: support email not working

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Sat Feb 04 2017 20:00:16 EST from ura @ Uncensored Subject: support email not working

support email themgt@mail.ru  is not working - mail is returning. WTF with this project? Totally dead??? ebuilds dead, no any version info

Oh man, I never thought I would become such an grumpy old linux fart, but here we go:

Judging from your overall attitude and general error resolving skills, I doubt that you should be using Gentoo as your distribution of choice. There are packages in Debian, maybe you should even try Ubuntu.

The Sunrise overlay is no longer actively maintained. If you want an example for a buggy and dead linux project, Sunrise basically is one of the best. It was a braindead zombie with locked-in syndrome on life support, even before they officially closed it. So yes, the ebuild from a third party overlay is outdated, as are possibly 99% of all those ebuilds around. Normal Gentoo stuff.

But there are bugs reports for the ebuilds on the official bugtracker bugs.gentoo.org, there is a #citadel irc channel on freenode and there is this page we are using right now. On all three of them, there is a guy called the_mgt hanging around.

You could have found out all of the above by using a search engine on the web and following a few links. You did nothing of that. And now you come here whining and ranting, what reaction do you actually expect? We germans have a proverb: "The way you shout into the woods, it shouts back".

 

If you still want your problems resolved, we can work something out, but you need to bring a different attitude.



[#] Fri Feb 10 2017 12:31:43 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: support email not working

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I think we've got more than a few unmaintained or under-maintained packages out there for various operating system distributions. It seems a lot of the folks who make the loudest and rudest complaints are trying to use them.

It may make sense for us to reduce the number of different ways Citadel can be installed, in order to reduce the number of support paths we need to provide.

[#] Fri Feb 10 2017 14:21:22 EST from bennabiy @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: support email not working

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I think that would probably allow for more troubleshooting to happen, knowing the install process better, rather than having to go through the trouble to figure out how the packages got installed, etc.

EasyInstall only has a few dependencies, and while it is a little bit slower than installed from a .deb say, it is more stable on the local machine because it was compiled for that environment. I vote for easy install!

Fri Feb 10 2017 12:31:43 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored Subject: Re: support email not working

I think we've got more than a few unmaintained or under-maintained packages out there for various operating system distributions. It seems a lot of the folks who make the loudest and rudest complaints are trying to use them.

It may make sense for us to reduce the number of different ways Citadel can be installed, in order to reduce the number of support paths we need to provide.

 



[#] Sat Feb 11 2017 09:58:03 EST from the_mgt @ Uncensored

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If you create a fool proof solution, nature just invents a better fool. No matter how easy you make EasyInstall.

Anyway, I will do more linux work in the future and I'll try to update the ebuilds soon.



[#] Sat Feb 11 2017 14:44:17 EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored

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If you create a fool proof solution, nature just invents a better
fool. No matter how easy you make EasyInstall.

Yes. This. We have probably gone through hundreds of iterations of this cycle.

20 years ago, you had to download Citadel components as source tarballs, integrate things yourself, edit a bunch of text files, manually integrate webcit with your Apache server, etc.

Around the turn of the century we embarked on an effort to make Citadel easy to install -- "so easy, even an MCSE could do it" was our motto at the time.
And we got there. We got there a long time ago. The truth is, you will not find a messaging and collaboration platform whose installation is as smooth and trouble-free as Citadel. But there are always edge cases where someone has trouble. We look at those edge cases and try to find places where we can either eliminate their problem entirely, or at least have it generate meaningful diagnostics to suggest how to fix it, or where to look for help.

And every time we do so, it takes care of an entire stratum of potential users who then turn into happy Citadel users.

Inevitably, the next thing that happens is that we've opened up an entire *new* stratum of potential users below that, who have even more esoteric problems.
This has always been happening. It will continue to happen forever. It's turtles all the way down.

Unfortunately there will also always be people who simply refuse to read and understand the documentation before they embark on an installation. For these people I have no sympathy, and I hope they accidentally put their computer's power cord in their mouth and die of electrocution.

[#] Sun Feb 12 2017 00:00:18 EST from rwolfe @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: Citadel Virtual Appliance? (2012 version not found)

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2016-02-16 16:57 from nellson @uncnsrd
Subject: Citadel Virtual Appliance? (2012 version not found)
I found this searching for a multi-domain capable e-mail server in a
virtual appliance, but the link for downloading the virtual appliance
does not work. Is this still an option?

Nick, if you need one, I would be happy to put one together for you as a VirtualBox appliance (as that is how I run my Citadel system) and archive it up and put it up on my FTP server for you to grab.

[#] Sun Feb 12 2017 00:01:55 EST from rwolfe @ Uncensored

Subject: Re: Error configuring citadel suite.

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2016-02-19 16:33 from jbb0906 @uncnsrd
Subject: Error configuring citadel suite.
I installed the suite on Ubuntu server 15.10 using apt-get. During
the configuration set up, I had one error

Under Ubuntu, you should build it using the EasyInstall script and not from packages. The only distro I was ever able to get distro-specific packaging to work was under Red Hat Enterprise 7.3, which is what I run my Citadel system under.

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