<?xml version="1.0"?><rss version="2.0"><channel><title>Politics &amp; Propaganda</title><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/</link><image><title>Politics &amp; Propaganda</title><url>http://uncensored.citadel.org/image?name=_roompic_?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda</url><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/</link></image>
<description>Politics &amp; Propaganda</description>
<item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3458773</link><pubDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 08:42:45 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3458773</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3458773@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 On the left, nothing's right, and on the right, nothing's left. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3457790</link><pubDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2013 15:31:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3457790</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3457790@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3457779</link><pubDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2013 14:43:38 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3457779</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3457779@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I wear loafers, you insensitive clod! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3457221</link><pubDate>Mon, 17 Jun 2013 21:42:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3457221</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3457221@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sat Jun 15 2013 05:49:32 PM EDT</span> <span>from fleeb @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />But, obviously, you know better than that. One is left, and the other right. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes, but the laces are the same on both shoes...</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3455923</link><pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2013 20:57:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3455923</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3455923@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3455914</link><pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2013 17:49:32 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3455914</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3455914@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 But, obviously, you know better than that.  One is left, and the other right.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3455897</link><pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2013 12:59:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3455897</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3455897@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[What?!!??!!!  Obama is spying like Bush did?  AND he is starting wars we don't need to be in just like Bush did?  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3455887</link><pubDate>Sat, 15 Jun 2013 11:34:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3455887</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3455887@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 And on top of the IRS, NSA, and all the other domestic scandals our Marxist-in-chief
has propagated throughout government agencies (doing a convenient end run
around Congress) ... 
  
 What the flying fuck is going on with Syria?  This is IRAQ all over again.
 If the mainstream media weren't so transparently marxist, they would be all
over this.  If they weren't so obviously biased they would be crucifying Obama
the same way they did with Bush. 
  
 The situation in Syria is nothing more than savages killing other savages.
 We have no business getting involved.  Both sides are muslimterrorists, both
sides hate America, and we're giving them weapons?  WTF?! 
  
 It should be painstakingly clear to anyone without liberal bias that Obama
is an enemy combatant and should be immediately prosecuted for treason.  Maximum
sentence. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3453618</link><pubDate>Wed, 12 Jun 2013 09:13:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3453618</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3453618@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Right?  I mean, jeez....just call Olivia Pope already, if you don't have the stones to do it yourself....</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3453142</link><pubDate>Tue, 11 Jun 2013 10:48:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3453142</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3453142@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Yeah... I mean, it seems like you ought to be able to stop being so mamby
pamby about the whole thing and really belt out a nasty power grab instead
of pussy-footing around with it. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3453124</link><pubDate>Tue, 11 Jun 2013 09:54:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3453124</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3453124@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Using the IRS and NSA to gather data on and punish your political opponents is just a slower version of the same thing, it seems to me.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3452560</link><pubDate>Mon, 10 Jun 2013 15:53:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3452560</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3452560@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Call the Oathkeepers! ;) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3452409</link><pubDate>Mon, 10 Jun 2013 15:34:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3452409</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3452409@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 You'd think... but given the scenario, you're forced into breaking your oath
one way or another. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3452088</link><pubDate>Mon, 10 Jun 2013 13:40:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3452088</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3452088@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 http://www.history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html 
  
 should cover that one 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3451935</link><pubDate>Mon, 10 Jun 2013 13:07:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3451935</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3451935@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 What prevents a US president from simply using the military to take control
of the country? 
  
 Sounds like a stupid question, but consider it for a moment.  The US president
is our military's commander-in-chief.  They take their commands from him,
and him only.  If the president simply used the military to wipe out Congress
(Senate and House), and uses the military to prevent any further elections
from taking place, what could anyone do to stop it? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3450786</link><pubDate>Thu, 06 Jun 2013 15:44:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3450786</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3450786@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>&lt;enjoys the flock of pigs flying by&gt;</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3450759</link><pubDate>Thu, 06 Jun 2013 12:26:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3450759</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3450759@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Can't argue with that... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3450727</link><pubDate>Thu, 06 Jun 2013 07:57:07 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3450727</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3450727@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[His foreign policy tendencies lie in alignment with the Neocon/PNAC types
that needlessly got us involved in Iraq.  That kind of thinking creates years
of bad will on both the foreign and domestic fronts. 
  
 The ideal policy for handling rogue states can be described in one word:
"Dresden."  Anything else is either too much or too little. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3450575</link><pubDate>Wed, 05 Jun 2013 15:32:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3450575</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3450575@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ 
 > McCain's foreign policy would have been a disaster

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3447038</link><pubDate>Sun, 02 Jun 2013 17:33:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3447038</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3447038@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Tina Fey is a dumb bitch.  ftfy.  Tina Fey, the dumb bitch, was part and parcel
to the communist media's smear campaign against Sarah Palin, who is not a
dumb bitch like Tina Fey is. 
  
 To summarize: Tina Fey is a dumb bitch. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3447029</link><pubDate>Sun, 02 Jun 2013 16:24:19 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3447029</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3447029@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I certainly had no qualms in the 2008 elections. McCain/Palin was definitely a much better choice, just in terms of experience and integrity. </p>
<p>I was completely torn regarding Mitt Romney. </p>
<p>Tina Fey isn't dumb. Tina Fey playing Sarah Palin acts dumb, b/c it's funnier that way. Tina Fey is actually quite an impressive actress... but that's a whole different story. </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3447007</link><pubDate>Sun, 02 Jun 2013 10:08:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3447007</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3447007@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA["A Republican" covers a lot of ground.  McCain's foreign policy would have
been a disaster (but he wouldn't have left people to die in Benghazi).  He
probably would have been lax on taxes.  It's likely that energy costs would
be far lower though, because Sarah Palin would be repeatedly slapping him
to make sure the Keystone pipeline got approved, drilling permits got approved,
applications for new nuclear sites got approved, etc.  And we wouldn't have
zillions of taxpayer dollars being funneled into guaranteed-to-fail solar
energy companies. 
  
 Always remember: Tina Fey is a dumb bitch.  Sarah Palin is very smart.  The
commie media wants you to believe it's the other way around.  Don't be a dumb
bitch like Tina Fey.  Be smart like Sarah Palin. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3446996</link><pubDate>Sun, 02 Jun 2013 08:38:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3446996</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3446996@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Also - much as I think Obama is a disaster of a president, I'm not sure a Republican could've done substantially better.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3446831</link><pubDate>Sun, 02 Jun 2013 07:08:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3446831</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3446831@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Of course there is!  Now we have ObamaScare.....err, ObamaCare.....</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3446774</link><pubDate>Sat, 01 Jun 2013 17:21:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3446774</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3446774@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>And I think federal debt and debt per person are the same (as in, federal debt over population).</p>
<p>That said, I'm sure something must've improved. Can't think of what... but something.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3446773</link><pubDate>Sat, 01 Jun 2013 17:20:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3446773</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3446773@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I'm not sure if home values is necessarily a negative - home prices were artificially inflated, and came down.</p>
<p>Plus the home you live in remains the same regardless of its value.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3445764</link><pubDate>Thu, 30 May 2013 07:46:29 +0500</pubDate><title>by the numbers...</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3445764@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><img src="http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BLgdNJCCYAAyvhx.jpg" alt="" width="574" height="562" /></p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3445691</link><pubDate>Wed, 29 May 2013 20:14:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3445691</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3445691@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Probably still riding around on one of those mountains....</p>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3445677</link><pubDate>Wed, 29 May 2013 19:11:57 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3445677</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3445677@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Where the heck is Animal anyway?  He hasn't been online since March. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3445080</link><pubDate>Wed, 29 May 2013 09:36:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3445080</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3445080@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Hmmm. Seems to me that Animal as a Professor is a reason to go back to college.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3443220</link><pubDate>Mon, 27 May 2013 11:21:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3443220</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3443220@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Here's something interesting. 
  
 [ http://tinyurl.com/qj525zl ] 
  
 Colorado University is actually recognizing that academia has become way
too left-wing and is pushing for more "intellectual diversity" on its campus,
seeking to hire more professors with right-of-center views. 
  
 "Nobody's going to challenge anyone else, nobody's going to debate, because
they all think the same," said a member of the Colorado Board of Regents.

  
 It's a step in the right direction.  If academia and media get any more out
of control, the next step will have to be to use the left's tactics against
itself and have conservatives declared a protected class. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3442401</link><pubDate>Sun, 26 May 2013 15:55:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3442401</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3442401@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Oh you mean like the FBI searching the email of journalists that reported a gov't leak...using a "legally obtained" warrant?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3442277</link><pubDate>Sat, 25 May 2013 22:11:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3442277</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3442277@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Of course not.  And I fully expect the liberal media to cover as little of
these scandals as possible, even though they appear to be quite significant.

  
 My mother-in-law is making something called "Watergate Salad" when we have
a bbq on memorial day.  I told her that we insist upon renaming it "Benghazi
Salad" 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3439213</link><pubDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 00:34:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3439213</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3439213@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Well, you didn't really think he'd give up *that* easy a mark, did you?  ;-)</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3437900</link><pubDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 18:36:07 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3437900</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3437900@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Let's not forget Al Capone!  We need to be especially hard on   
 >fraudsters who learned their intimidation tactics in Chicago.   
  
 I see what you're doing here. ;) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3437773</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 May 2013 22:07:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3437773</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3437773@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Looks like the acting IRS commissioner has been the first patsy to   
 >take the fall.  Sure, like it was the IRS Commissioner's idea to harass
 
  
 If by "take the fall" you mean resign a couple weeks before your **scheduled
retirement**..... ;) 
  
 Go read ARTICLE II of the Impeachment Articles against Richard Nixon. 
 Fits the O'Bummer guy like a glove. <evil grin> 
  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3437723</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 May 2013 15:29:47 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3437723</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3437723@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Let's not forget Al Capone!  We need to be especially hard on fraudsters who
learned their intimidation tactics in Chicago. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3437684</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 May 2013 13:25:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3437684</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3437684@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Because no libertarian or conservative tax protester was ever guilty of tax
fraud... 
  
 ... oh wait a minute: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irwin_Schiff 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3437489</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 May 2013 11:58:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3437489</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3437489@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Lots of scandals for the Baraq Saddam Hussein Osama Obama administration
to sort through, eh? 
  
 Looks like the acting IRS commissioner has been the first patsy to take the
fall.  Sure, like it was the IRS Commissioner's idea to harass conservative
organizations. 
  
 The job is not done until Osama and Hitlery are severely punished. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3432415</link><pubDate>Fri, 03 May 2013 22:46:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3432415</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3432415@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 Coroners can't decide whether Tamerlan died of gunshot or vehicular mutilation
-- he was that messed up.    
    
 A fitting end.   
  
  
 http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/05/03/boston-marathon-bombing-suspect-tamerlan-tsarnaev-died-from-gunshot-wounds-blunt-trauma-according-death-certificate/HqbOisq2mQerevXscHn06J/story.html

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3432104</link><pubDate>Wed, 01 May 2013 11:47:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3432104</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3432104@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 3 additional suspects charged in connection with bombing 
  
 it appears that all 3 were UM-Dartmouth students. 2 appear to be the Kazakhs
that were arrested previously on visa violations; and have now been charged
with conspiracy to obstruct justice and making false statements. 
  
 3rd unnamed student charged with making false statements. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3431441</link><pubDate>Sun, 28 Apr 2013 22:35:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3431441</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3431441@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[No, it's the truth :)  We must capture and summarily execute this dangerous
terrorist. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3430615</link><pubDate>Wed, 24 Apr 2013 22:48:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3430615</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3430615@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sat Apr 20 2013 01:50:43 PM EDT</span> <span>from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />Ladyhawke: I *totally* agree with your assessment of what we should have done after the first WTC bombing. Right on the money. <br /><br /></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>&lt;laughs&gt;  oops...freudian slip, I guess?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3430140</link><pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 17:28:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3430140</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3430140@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20130418/melrose/man-beaten-anti-muslim-attack-outside-bronx-applebees-nypd-says

  
 anti-Muslim attack in the Bronx, in retaliation for the bombings 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3430108</link><pubDate>Tue, 23 Apr 2013 13:20:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3430108</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3430108@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 http://www.boston.com/sports/marathon/2013/04/20/researchers-urge-special-brain-autopsy-bombing-suspect/UoZExTff0K4olSTyIV5WGL/story.html

  
 "Two pioneering researchers of brain disease among athletes in violent sports
recommended Saturday that investigators conduct special autopsy tests on amateur
boxer Tamerlan Tsarnaev to determine whether the Boston Marathon bombing suspect
could have been affected by boxing-related brain damage." 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3429586</link><pubDate>Sun, 21 Apr 2013 22:35:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3429586</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3429586@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 It might have motivated the creation of our current government. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3429576</link><pubDate>Sun, 21 Apr 2013 18:51:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3429576</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3429576@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I always thought "dumbass" and "angry" motivated many stupid things.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3429558</link><pubDate>Sun, 21 Apr 2013 15:46:47 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3429558</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3429558@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 And yet, that's the best explanation we've got to go on. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3429557</link><pubDate>Sun, 21 Apr 2013 15:46:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3429557</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3429557@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Apr 20 2013 6:17pm from triLcat @uncnsrd   
 >"I'm a dumbass angry shit" doesn't qualify as motive...   
  
 +1 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3429464</link><pubDate>Sat, 20 Apr 2013 18:17:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3429464</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3429464@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>"I'm a dumbass angry shit" doesn't qualify as motive... </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3429443</link><pubDate>Sat, 20 Apr 2013 13:52:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3429443</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3429443@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Giant, pink dildo on display in your BBC interview about the bombings?
 
 >Priceless.   
  
 As if the BBC would have had anything useful to say about a terrorist attack
in the USA.  That pink object in the corner was probably the only thing worth
putting on the air :) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3429442</link><pubDate>Sat, 20 Apr 2013 13:50:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3429442</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3429442@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Ladyhawke: I *totally* agree with your assessment of what we should have
done after the first WTC bombing.  Right on the money. 
  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3429440</link><pubDate>Sat, 20 Apr 2013 13:49:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3429440</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3429440@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >was on the same continent.  e) We don't know yet whether these are    
 >two random stupid kids- but I disagree that there was no particular    
 >motive.  There may or may not be a grand consipiracy - time will    
 >tell on that - but there was certainly a motive of some type or    
 >another.  Even school shooters have motives.     
    
 it's the validity of the motive that puzzles me. by all accounts, these kids
were not harmed by america. russia maybe. they didn't really have a valid
beef with us.   
    
 and of course they are stupid kids. who allowed themselves to be influenced
by extremism.   
    
 it has a lot more to do with pan-islamist extremist sentiment than chechnya
in specific, it seems. one theme has emerged, consistently, when you hear
from chechnyans, americans, foreign policy wonks, whoever, on this subject:
these two stupid kids (yes, stupid kids) may have done
irreparable damage to the chechnyan cause. the first chechnyans ever to attack
an american target, potentially souring any goodwill america might have had
for them. phenomenally stupid. i can't think of anything stupider. if you
can, please give an example.   
  
  
 it's not about chechnya anymore. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3429435</link><pubDate>Sat, 20 Apr 2013 13:24:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3429435</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3429435@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Nice tribute</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3429434</link><pubDate>Sat, 20 Apr 2013 13:24:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3429434</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3429434@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Fri Apr 19 2013 04:19:31 PM EDT</span> <span>from LoanShark @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote>help them.  Guess that came back to roost..... <br /><br /></blockquote>
<br />We had two random Chechen terrorists blowing things up and the U.S. And the thing is: they're just a couple of stupid kids with no plan, no particular goals, no particular motive. The Chechen war doesn't even explain why they did what they did. <br /><br />If the U.S. had gotten involved on the side of Russia, that might explain a bit more. Then instead of two, we'd have had a lot more. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>You misunderstand.  I'm not saying they bombed us because of the war.  I'm saying that a) As with many faulty decisions in the past (not chasing down Obama after WTC bombing 1, arming the Taliban and the Shah, etc.) we often make bad decisions with long term impact.  b) It's important to know who these people are, whether they are loners or part of some grand design; understanding who they are, what they believe, and why they chose to kill us matters not only for  moving on from this attack and determining whether there is something else out there, but also for future defense.  c) Whether it's politically correct or not, I think it matters that they were Muslim extremists (regardless of whether they are loners).  d) Don't think we'd be pleased if a Mexican bomber was labled American because he was on the same continent.  e) We don't know yet whether these are two random stupid kids- but I disagree that there was no particular motive.  There may or may not be a grand consipiracy - time will tell on
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3429418</link><pubDate>Sat, 20 Apr 2013 09:55:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3429418</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3429418@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Sean Collier was an MIT campus cop - and also an MIT Outing Club (MITOC)
member. 
  
 http://web.mit.edu/mitoc/www/#events/special.shtml 
  
 ^^tribute 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3429415</link><pubDate>Sat, 20 Apr 2013 09:20:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3429415</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3429415@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Giant, pink dildo on display in your BBC interview about the bombings? Priceless.

  
 https://twitter.com/jane__bradley/status/325183952497283072 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3429275</link><pubDate>Sat, 20 Apr 2013 02:29:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3429275</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3429275@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>True, the motive element seems a bit weak.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3429052</link><pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2013 16:19:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3429052</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3429052@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >help them.  Guess that came back to roost.....  
 >  
  
 We had two random Chechen terrorists blowing things up and the U.S. And the
thing is: they're just a couple of stupid kids with no plan, no particular
goals, no particular motive. The Chechen war doesn't even explain why they
did what they did. 
  
 If the U.S. had gotten involved on the side of Russia, that might explain
a bit more. Then instead of two, we'd have had a lot more. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3429039</link><pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2013 14:30:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3429039</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3429039@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Heh.  Don't see why we should waste our time on it - I'd ratehr see him find out in the soonest time possible that there are no virgins waiting for him.</p>
<p></p>
<p>While I usually don't put much stock in Salon, having lived in Russia and knowing well about Chechnya, this is fairly decent high level background: <strong><a href="http://www.salon.com/2013/04/19/chechen_terrorism_what_you_need_to_know/">http://www.salon.com/2013/04/19/chechen_terrorism_what_you_need_to_know/</a></strong></p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3429037</link><pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2013 14:13:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3429037</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3429037@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 "Medical staff tried to revive suspect killed in shoot-out." 
  
 Too bad. Would have been nice to bring him back, kill him, bring him back,
and then kill him again. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3429014</link><pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2013 11:33:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3429014</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3429014@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[This is really a "too bad, so sad" for the mainstream media.  They were drooling
over the hope that they would uncover another Timothy McVeigh.  The fact that
these suspects are muslimterrorists, combined with the defeat of that really
awful gun control bill in the Senate, is really getting the mainstream media
in a hyper-butthurt mood today. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3428917</link><pubDate>Fri, 19 Apr 2013 10:51:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3428917</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3428917@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Interestingly, the news is reporting these terrorists as from Russia.  But these guys are not Russian.  They are Chechen.  Chechnya is located inside Russia, but they are actually Muslim separatists; they have been at war with Russia since 1994.  In fact, when I left Russia in 1995 after working there for a couple of years, it was specifically because these crazy Chechen terrorists were setting off bombs in civilian metro stations in central Moscow.  Worst part?  Back then, Yeltsin had actually swallowed his pride and requested the US' help to quash the terrorists - and we refused to help them.  Guess that came back to roost.....</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3428714</link><pubDate>Thu, 18 Apr 2013 18:23:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3428714</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3428714@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Ugh...   They're/their</p>
<p>&lt;sigh&gt;</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3428713</link><pubDate>Thu, 18 Apr 2013 18:21:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3428713</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3428713@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Or maybe now they'll get to pass they're fun new gun control laws</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3428367</link><pubDate>Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:17:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3428367</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3428367@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Sadly, the whole thing is going to get hyper-politicized to meet someone's
agenda, regardless of what actually happened.  The media will eat it up. 
At some point, one of two things will happen.  Either they will identify a
muslimterrorist and say "he was acting independently, don't trash their culture/religion
as a whole for this" -- or they will identify some mentally unstable patsy,
paint him as a "right wing extremist" and use it to justify all sorts of new
laws that won't prevent more violence but expand the reach of the government.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3427778</link><pubDate>Tue, 16 Apr 2013 18:11:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3427778</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3427778@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Apparently, the trauma team was trained by Israelis. </p>
<p>Honestly, Israeli security requires a whole cultural shift. And there is some level of invasion of privacy. For an event like that, you'd have to open your bag for a guard, and if you're a man, they pat your waistband to make sure there's no gun there (you have to show a license to bring one in, usually). </p>
<p>The absolutely close down the whole area, and every single person is checked.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the idea of not allowing unclaimed bags to sit... might be a leaf they could take out of Israel's book. </p>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3427775</link><pubDate>Tue, 16 Apr 2013 18:05:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3427775</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3427775@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Agree on both counts. </p>
<p>It was frightening and so sad for those killed and injured.  And a lot of people will take a long time to heal; some may never heal.  But you know, I'm pretty proud of how we've handled the situation here.  Rather than let life stop, our innate NE stubborness refuses to let the terrorist(s) - be they foreign or domestic - change our way of life and make us run scared for the trees.  And that's true even for the temporary NE'ers visiting for the event.  Plus, the inter-agency cooperation - though it likely looks better on the surface than it operationally is - also marks improvement from past situations.</p>
<p>So, while I am sickened and sad and scared and angry - I'm also quite proud of us.  Nolite te bastardes carborundorum and all that. </p>
<p>Still wish we'd take more security lessons from the Israelis, tho....</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3427724</link><pubDate>Tue, 16 Apr 2013 12:44:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3427724</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3427724@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 the boston marathon in particular is such a celebration of spring. I was
there a few years back as my significant other made it to the finish line.
beautiful warm day, and we had spent the previous couple days skiing, including
off the summit of mount washington. 
  
 we have a whole gaggle of friends who either ran the race or volunteered
on the course. all have checked in safe. the finish line is so crowded, they
pack people in like sardines, 100 injured is about 1/10th as bad as one might
fear. 
  
 sickening. I had to head out for a walk yesterday when I heard the news.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3427640</link><pubDate>Tue, 16 Apr 2013 04:12:47 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3427640</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3427640@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>hm, we have a saying over here: "sport ist mord"  - "sports is murder" the boston people found a very bad variant of that :-(</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3427362</link><pubDate>Mon, 15 Apr 2013 13:54:32 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3427362</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3427362@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 The historical perspective was nice. Wonder how the mine conditions were,
just before they were closed... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3427263</link><pubDate>Sun, 14 Apr 2013 21:01:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3427263</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3427263@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Interesting stuff.  I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion but it was a
fascinating read. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3423667</link><pubDate>Tue, 09 Apr 2013 21:41:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3423667</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3423667@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[On Margaret Thatcher and George Orwell:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/08/thatcher-s-economic-legacy.html

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3419957</link><pubDate>Wed, 03 Apr 2013 23:41:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3419957</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3419957@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>It's highly exagurated old news, <a href="http://www.nbcnews.com/id/10454316/#.UVyicZO7H1o">http://www.nbcnews.com/id/10454316/#.UVyicZO7H1o</a> is probably the best source for the origional news.  It wasn't really Quakers either, more just anti war protesters (which I personally am not, but Quakers historically always will be).  It's was still silly.  The more exagurated stories of the government spying on quakers/activists, but as they're hard to source to something useful, they might need to be taken with a grain of salt.  </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Mon Apr 01 2013 03:43:55 PM EDT</span> <span>from triLcat @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>Quakers are on the terrorist watch list? Now I've heard EVERYTHING. What next? Amish? Children under age 10? </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Mar 31 2013 20:40:33 EDT</span> <span>from fireball @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>Oddly enough, the last time I flew, I found being red flagged and forced to go through the special search saved me a lot of time.  (2006) I'm pretty sure next time I fly that won't be the case.  My hope is that the NSA has stopped idnetifying Quakers (a donomination to which I officially belong) to be probable terrorists, so next time I fly it's not an issue.  I wouldn't know, and I suppose I don't really care that much.  Atleast there hasn't been any news of them tapping our phone calls for a few years.  </p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3419077</link><pubDate>Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:02:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3419077</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3419077@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 What triL said, too 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3419076</link><pubDate>Mon, 01 Apr 2013 16:02:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3419076</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3419076@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >hope is that the NSA has stopped idnetifying Quakers (a donomination  
 >to which I officially belong) to be probable terrorists, so next time  
  
 I am reading this on April 1. I know you posted it yesterday. But that's
a hard red pill to swallow 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3419069</link><pubDate>Mon, 01 Apr 2013 15:43:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3419069</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3419069@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Quakers are on the terrorist watch list? Now I've heard EVERYTHING. What next? Amish? Children under age 10? </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Mar 31 2013 20:40:33 EDT</span> <span>from fireball @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>Oddly enough, the last time I flew, I found being red flagged and forced to go through the special search saved me a lot of time.  (2006) I'm pretty sure next time I fly that won't be the case.  My hope is that the NSA has stopped idnetifying Quakers (a donomination to which I officially belong) to be probable terrorists, so next time I fly it's not an issue.  I wouldn't know, and I suppose I don't really care that much.  Atleast there hasn't been any news of them tapping our phone calls for a few years.  </p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3419007</link><pubDate>Mon, 01 Apr 2013 10:57:45 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3419007</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3419007@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>A couple of very well done, short, youtubes with an amusing slant on Passover:</p>
<p>If Today's Media Told the Passover Story:</p>
<p><iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XSN8FlGINFc" frameborder="0" width="560" height="315"></iframe></p>
<p> </p>
<p>If the Passover Exodus were Conducted Today (Google version): </p>
<p><iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BIxToZmJwdI" frameborder="0" width="560" height="315"></iframe></p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3418708</link><pubDate>Sun, 31 Mar 2013 20:40:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3418708</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3418708@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Oddly enough, the last time I flew, I found being red flagged and forced to go through the special search saved me a lot of time.  (2006) I'm pretty sure next time I fly that won't be the case.  My hope is that the NSA has stopped idnetifying Quakers (a donomination to which I officially belong) to be probable terrorists, so next time I fly it's not an issue.  I wouldn't know, and I suppose I don't really care that much.  Atleast there hasn't been any news of them tapping our phone calls for a few years.  </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3418541</link><pubDate>Sat, 30 Mar 2013 18:10:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3418541</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3418541@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Every time I fly I am surprised when they let me though the gate, considering
how prominently I think the government has already been overthrown by communists.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3418309</link><pubDate>Fri, 29 Mar 2013 10:40:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3418309</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3418309@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Wed Mar 27 2013 08:15:54 AM EDT</span> <span>from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote>Their opinion is what makes them terrorists, their opinions are extreme. </blockquote>
<br /><br />No, what makes them terrorists is performing attacks on civilian targets. <br /><br />Having an extreme opinion does not make someone a terrorist. I have extreme opinions and I am proud to call myself a lunatic, but that doesn't make me a terrorist. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Just to be safe, I'm going to just add you to the no fly list.  Nah I'm kidding, you were already there.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3417245</link><pubDate>Wed, 27 Mar 2013 08:15:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3417245</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3417245@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Their opinion is what makes them terrorists, their opinions are extreme.
 
  
 No, what makes them terrorists is performing attacks on civilian targets.

  
 Having an extreme opinion does not make someone a terrorist.  I have extreme
opinions and I am proud to call myself a lunatic, but that doesn't make me
a terrorist. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3415184</link><pubDate>Sat, 23 Mar 2013 10:40:28 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3415184</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3415184@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Mar 18 2013 11:05am from IGnatius T Foobar @uncnsrd 
 >I have to call into question why zooer would cite the Huffington Post 
 >as a news source. 
 > 

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3415066</link><pubDate>Fri, 22 Mar 2013 18:29:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3415066</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3415066@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3415017</link><pubDate>Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:41:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3415017</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3415017@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[The opinion of a bunch of terrorists doesn't count. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3414198</link><pubDate>Fri, 22 Mar 2013 10:44:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3414198</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3414198@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>funny how the palestinensians seem to believe in the complete opposite...</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3414101</link><pubDate>Fri, 22 Mar 2013 10:16:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3414101</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3414101@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 "How Obama Engineered Mideast Radicalization" 
  
 [ http://tinyurl.com/obama-is-a-muslim-terrorist ] 
  
 It's pretty clear that Obama sympathizes with the world of muslim extremism
and hates Israel.  I think that Israel should treat his visit as an act of
war. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3414087</link><pubDate>Fri, 22 Mar 2013 09:35:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3414087</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3414087@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Thu Mar 21 2013 20:52:51 EDT</span> <span>from fleeb @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />Yakusa stealing them to put into random people's food, perhaps. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>yep, or maybe charge glowing fishes with them...</p>
<p>or.. maybe just some terrorists to build a trash-bomb.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3413753</link><pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2013 20:52:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3413753</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3413753@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Yakusa stealing them to put into random people's food, perhaps. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3413343</link><pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2013 03:05:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3413343</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3413343@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Fukushima - Tsunamis, Rats... whats next? Unicorns stealing fuel rods?</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3412784</link><pubDate>Wed, 20 Mar 2013 10:56:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3412784</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3412784@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/zypern-privatjets-fliegen-besonders-oft-nach-russland-a-889760.html</p>
<p>where do the Learjets go?</p>
<p>While they usualy go along the ways of trading connections, this maybe true for the neigbour greece, but can't be true for Russia.</p>
<p>More true here is, that they follow the money. The suspicion is, that many of those russian jets bring money from the russian oil etc. companies, to clean it on the way then back to russia.</p>
<p>When reading the numbers, remember cypris is around the size of NY city, and theres about one flight a day.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3412052</link><pubDate>Tue, 19 Mar 2013 13:26:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3412052</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3412052@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Of course.  Obama stands with his fellow muslimterrorists in hating Israel.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3412021</link><pubDate>Tue, 19 Mar 2013 12:09:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3412021</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3412021@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>For IG - yet another reason to love Mr. Hussein Obama.</p>
<p>http://freebeacon.com/obamas-middle-east-map-erases-israeli-territory/</p>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3410961</link><pubDate>Mon, 18 Mar 2013 11:05:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3410961</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3410961@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I have to call into question why zooer would cite the Huffington Post as a
news source. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3408251</link><pubDate>Wed, 13 Mar 2013 07:22:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3408251</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3408251@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Heh, well, even the author seemed to think it was something more like a breath mint.  Just seems weird to post 'news' along those lines.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3407994</link><pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 08:30:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3407994</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3407994@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Last year wall street trader Michael Marin took cyanide when hearing his guilty verdict.  Perhaps the author 
thought something similar was going to happen.  Of course with cyanide the answer to that question would have 
come quickly.
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3407841</link><pubDate>Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:47:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3407841</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3407841@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 This is what passes for news in Detroit: 
  
 http://www.freep.com/article/20130311/NEWS0102/130311110/What-did-Kwame-Kilpat
rick-put-his-mouth-after-being-ordered-jail- 
  
 Did Jim Schaefer (the author) have nothing else to write about? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3407255</link><pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 19:49:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3407255</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3407255@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >time to reform and rethink things and stop dealing in rhetoric and   
 >dogma without offering real solutions.   
  
 Such as? 
  
 Keynesian economics is *not* capitalism.  Quite the opposite, Keynes argued
that the free market is inefficient and requires constant manipulation by
policy wonks.  (Non-Keynesians call that "socialism") 
  
 Hayek is usually depicted as the most notable anti-Keynes, but I suspect
one could do better than that. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3407238</link><pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:47:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3407238</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3407238@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Is Keynesian economics truly capitalistic economics? 
  
 Seriously? 
  
 Or have we fooled ourselves into thinking it is, because it solves a capitalistic
problem in a short-sighted way? 
  
 "Keynesianism is the view that in the short run, especially during recessions,
productive activity is strongly influenced by aggregate demand (total spending
int he economy); and that aggregate demand does not necessarily equal the
productive capacity of the economy.  Instead, aggregate demand is influenced
by a host of factors and sometimes behaves erratically, affecting production,
employment, and inflations." 
  
 -- Wikipedia (for whatever that's worth) 
  
 Basically, this means that in a free market, you have to fiddle with the
variables a bit to keep things on an even keel.  Yeah, that has been working
really, really well for us over the last few decades. 
  
 Frankly, I think our fiddling
has simply managed to delay an inevitable outcome that will hit us very hard
when we just can't fiddle around any more. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3407189</link><pubDate>Sun, 10 Mar 2013 07:43:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3407189</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3407189@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I can't take seriously when people invoke Hitler in their argument, or when
they substitute a person's name for some "evil" sounding version of it.  The
problem is not the obstacles in front of capitalism.  The problem is capitalism.
 It is not the right system to run our world on, at least not the way it's
implemented now.  Keynes was a very evil man, perhaps worse in some ways than
the aforementioned german crazy guy.  This is a "enslave everyone and kill
them all" system that we have taken to an extreme and Keynesian econoics and
capitalism are designed to hurt humanity.  It's time to reform and rethink
things and stop dealing in rhetoric and dogma without offering real solutions.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3407119</link><pubDate>Sat, 09 Mar 2013 15:48:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3407119</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3407119@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px;">Here in the US, the socialist-run media didn't give this story much coverage.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px;">[ </span><a href="http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/NK27Dj02.html">http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/NK27Dj02.html</a> ]</p>
<p>Shortly after the media re-selected Ba'raq Osama last November, His Socialistness went to Asia to try and forge a pan-Asian alliance that included the US and excluded China.  Instead, they told His Hitlerness to go f**k himself and they built their own economic alliance that <em>does</em> include China and very much excludes the US.</p>
<p><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px;">We've put so many obstacles in front of capitalism that we've not only destroyed our economy but also put an end to American exceptionalism.  Asia is doing its own thing now and they don't need our money anymore.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px;">But I guess if His Racistness is trying to turn the US into a Euro-socialist style country, having a permanently shitty and irrelevant economy is part of that package.</span></p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3406454</link><pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2013 10:58:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3406454</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3406454@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >I liked how much he gave the US the middle finger.   
  
 Yeah, by expropriating property of foreign investors. Not the way to do business.
He was just so thumb-fingered. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3406349</link><pubDate>Thu, 07 Mar 2013 00:28:28 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3406349</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3406349@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I liked how much he gave the US the middle finger. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3406300</link><pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 18:02:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3406300</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3406300@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Brilliant. Gotta get *that* on a t-shirt and piss off some hipsters in Union
Square. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3406293</link><pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 17:56:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3406293</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3406293@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>
	<img alt="McChe" src="http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/070/8/c/mcche_by_tomrfoster-d4sf1pj.jpg" style="height: 89px; width: 88px;" />&nbsp;McChe salutes the commander!</p>
<p>
	[http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/070/8/c/mcche_by_tomrfoster-d4sf1pj.jpg for the text client folks]</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3406284</link><pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 17:31:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3406284</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3406284@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Worktrance/skitrance, since you ask. I came back here to celebrate the death
of Hugo Chavez McHitler. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3406161</link><pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 14:48:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3406161</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3406161@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3406038</link><pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 12:34:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3406038</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3406038@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Hugo Chavez is dead.... good riddance. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3406031</link><pubDate>Wed, 06 Mar 2013 12:11:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3406031</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3406031@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Warning you are baiting someone and about to be called a prick because you
disagree with them.,  
  
 Actually I don't have a problem with IG, because he's not a prick. 
  
 Get over yourself. If you hadn't noticed, this board is full of libertarians.
I must be the only liberal here now that Dirk doesn't show up so much. The
point is that you're the only one who goes out of your way to be an asshole.
It has nothing to do with disagreement about policy. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3404670</link><pubDate>Mon, 04 Mar 2013 19:11:32 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3404670</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3404670@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Well duh.  The political left in the US quite clearly wants to emulate European-style
socialism, even though it's been proven to cause permanent economic anemia.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3404381</link><pubDate>Sat, 02 Mar 2013 22:34:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3404381</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3404381@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Is the United States becoming Europe?
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3403573</link><pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 20:40:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3403573</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3403573@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Warning you are baiting someone and about to be called a prick because you
disagree with them.,  
  
 I think by now we've already shaken loose any of the thin-skinned crowd who
don't understand that our unique style of discussion here includes a lot of
hyperbole.  If they want to be offended they can take their whiny drama to
fecesbook where it belongs. 
  
 I brought up the direct relationship between political parties and racism
because of something I saw on television today that really pissed me off:
a democrat (yes, it was Barack Hitler Obama) giving the dedication speech
for a statue of Rosa Parks. 
  
 Rosa Parks, a well known icon of civil disobedience during an era of major
racial oppression. 
  
 Barack Hitler Obama, a member of the democrat party, the party who gave us
slavery, Jim Crow, and the KKK.  We have to firmly keep in mind that before
the commies completed their takeover
of the media, most blacks were Republicans (including Martin Luther King).
 The Democrats were in favor of segregation.  Republicans fought for civil
rights and started the NAACP. 
  
 That piece of garbage has no business representing a civil rights icon like
Rosa Parks. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3403565</link><pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 19:02:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3403565</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3403565@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[There isn't a South Dakota option either; what's your point?  I only included
plausible choices :) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3403553</link><pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:29:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3403553</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3403553@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > (warning: partisan comment
 >follows, stop reading now if that's a problem)  

Warning you are baiting someone and about to be called a prick because you disagree with them.,


 > *Where do you think Barack Obama was born?*  

There isn't a Hawaii option.
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3403550</link><pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 17:02:07 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3403550</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3403550@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<p>There's been plenty of speculation over what kind of divisions would happen if the union were to be broken up.  Texas would likely form its own autonomous nation, possibly annexing all or part of Arizona.  It's likely that the Russians would quickly take over Alaska.  Then we'd have socialist/communist nations on the coasts, which would soon find themselves in awkward circumstances because the free nation in between them has all the food.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But at least we could finally get rid of the illegal immigrant in the white house.</p>
<p>&lt;/There's been plenty of speculation over what kind of divisions would happen if the union were to be broken up.  Texas would likely form its own autonomous nation, possibly annexing all or part of Arizona.  It's likely that the Russians would quickly take over Alaska.  Then we'd have socialist/communist nations on the coasts, which would soon find themselves in awkward circumstances because the free nation in between them has all the food.</p>
<p>But at least we could finally get rid of the illegal immigrant in the white house.</p>
<div><form action="http://poll.pollcode.com/ctuzuq" method="post">
<table width="175" border="0" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="0" bgcolor="EEEEEE">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan="2"><span style="color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; font-size: x-small;"><strong>Where do you think Barack Obama was born?</strong></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="5"><input id="ctuzuqanswer1" type="radio" name="answer" value="1" /></td>
<td><span style="color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; font-size: x-small;"><label for="ctuzuqanswer1">Embu, Kenya</label></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="5"><input id="ctuzuqanswer2" type="radio" name="answer" value="2" /></td>
<td><span style="color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; font-size: x-small;"><label for="ctuzuqanswer2">Kisumu, Kenya</label></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="5"><input id="ctuzuqanswer3" type="radio" name="answer" value="3" /></td>
<td><span style="color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; font-size: x-small;"><label for="ctuzuqanswer3">Langata, Kenya</label></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="5"><input id="ctuzuqanswer4" type="radio" name="answer" value="4" /></td>
<td><span style="color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; font-size: x-small;"><label for="ctuzuqanswer4">Mombasa, Kenya</label></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="5"><input id="ctuzuqanswer5" type="radio" name="answer" value="5" /></td>
<td><span style="color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; font-size: x-small;"><label for="ctuzuqanswer5">Narok, Kenya</label></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="5"><input id="ctuzuqanswer6" type="radio" name="answer" value="6" /></td>
<td><span style="color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; font-size: x-small;"><label for="ctuzuqanswer6">Watamu, Kenya</label></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="5"><input id="ctuzuqanswer7" type="radio" name="answer" value="7" /></td>
<td><span style="color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; font-size: x-small;"><label for="ctuzuqanswer7">Dadaab, Kenya</label></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="5"><input id="ctuzuqanswer8" type="radio" name="answer" value="8" /></td>
<td><span style="color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; font-size: x-small;"><label for="ctuzuqanswer8">Kakamega, Kenya</label></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="5"><input id="ctuzuqanswer9" type="radio" name="answer" value="9" /></td>
<td><span style="color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; font-size: x-small;"><label for="ctuzuqanswer9">Kuambu, Kenya</label></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2"><center><input type="submit" value=" Vote " />  <input type="submit" name="view" value=" View " /></center></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2" align="right"><span style="color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; font-size: xx-small;">pollcode.com <a href="http://pollcode.com/"><span style="color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; font-size: xx-small;">free polls</span></a> </span></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</form></div>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3403546</link><pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:43:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3403546</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3403546@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Actually, if that happened than TX and some others would probably actually leave and form their own "union", so you'd probably have to leave America altogether to be with the likeminded.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3403500</link><pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 10:54:32 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3403500</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3403500@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Actually it worked out pretty well.  (warning: partisan comment follows, stop reading now if that's a problem)  The Lincoln-led Republicans won, and the pro-slavery Democrats lost.  The latter group then went on to bring us tasty treats like Jim Crow and the KKK, and have been trying to push a lie about "flip flop" ever since.</p>
<p>That's kind of the point -- the tension between constitutionalists and socialists is so high right now, that it's starting to mirror the kind of tension that brought about the first civil war.  Maybe it is time for another.  I would be willing to leave the People's Republic of New York and move to America if that happened.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3402320</link><pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 23:07:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3402320</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3402320@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Yeah, we've tried the civil war thing before, and it didn't quite work out.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3402203</link><pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:07:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3402203</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3402203@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Wow.  If you look at [ http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm ] a map of Right-to-Work
states vs. Forced-Unionism states, it ends up looking almost exactly like
an election map.  Not surprising, I guess. 
  
 We really are two separate nations occupying the same space.  We should have
a civil war. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3402094</link><pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:28:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3402094</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3402094@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Why not just make all states right to work states?  If the union operates in a positive way for the worker 
people will join the union, if the unions are not doing a good job the unions will fail.  Free market approach.

The unions keep the politicians in power and the politicians keep the union leaders in power.  It is a win win 
for the bureaucrats and the union leaders.
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3402092</link><pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:13:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3402092</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3402092@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Apple's insourcing of a few easy assembly jobs is a PR move.  When so much
of the supply chain has moved to Asia there is a tremendous value in keeping
everything in one place.  Need a component changed?  The company that made
it is nearby. 
  
 This isn't something recent.  Offshoring of manufacturing jobs is a decades-long
process, and we are now seeing the end result.  The damage is done and it
will be difficult to reverse. 
  
 It's very easy to pin blame, too.  This is *directly* the fault of American
labor unions, who artificially drove up the cost of American labor to the
point where manufacturers were basically forced to offshore if they wanted
to remain competitive. 
  
 My preferred course of action is to dismantle all unions, preferably through
the use of a large amount of violence and deadly force.  Force-feed a large
bomb to Michael Moore and then drop him into the middle of
a union rally. 
  
 But if that's not practical, then the obvious solution would be to impose
a 10% tariff of anything imported from Asia, and a 30% excise tax on any product
which has union labor anywhere in the value chain. 
  
 Oh, and if we can't use Michael Moore as a weapon of mass destruction then
we should blow him up anyway, just on principle. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3398240</link><pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:35:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3398240</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3398240@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Classic.</p>
<p>The security issues are staggering....but man, that's one heck of a capitalist....</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3398235</link><pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:04:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3398235</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3398235@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 http://edition.cnn.com/2013/01/17/business/us-outsource-job-china 
  
 maybe they should have given him a raise. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3398127</link><pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 13:37:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3398127</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3398127@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>And about time, too.  I've never understood why execs would ignore the huge operational and reputational costs involved with outsourcing to both the detriment of the firm as a whole and their own budgets.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3398122</link><pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 13:31:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3398122</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3398122@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Anyone else watching the State of the Union and notice the look on  
  
 Really? "Those jobs aren't coming back." --Steve Jobs, http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20120123/ARTICLE/301239999

  
 Anything could happen of course, sooner or later. Some companies are discovering
that outsourcing isn't all it's cracked up to be. 
  
 But the PC industry's whole supply chain is in Asia. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3398035</link><pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 07:12:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3398035</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3398035@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I'd be interesting for the Catholic church to go popeless for a while. 
  
 Beyond the See, heh. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3397774</link><pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 21:36:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3397774</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3397774@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Anyone else watching the State of the Union and notice the look on Tim Cook's face when Obama said that Apple was going to start making Macs in the us again??</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3397745</link><pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 17:36:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3397745</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3397745@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I think this might be the stupidest piece of liberal party-line junk that I've gotten - I get it a lot.</p>
<p>"<span style="background-color: #f1f2f6; color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; line-height: 14px;">You don't make peace with friend and allies"</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Yes, that's obvious - you make alliances when there is mutual benefit.</p>
<p>There's no middle ground when the other side is more concerned with wiping you off the face of the Earth than with caring for their own economy, or, you know, citizens.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3397596</link><pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 22:51:45 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3397596</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3397596@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Noooobody expects the papal resignation!!!1 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3397567</link><pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 19:30:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3397567</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3397567@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Yea, he talks to god, if god said it was okay then the pope can do it.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3397540</link><pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 15:57:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3397540</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3397540@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Wait, the Pope can resign??  Didn't even know that was possible.... </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3394577</link><pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2013 10:14:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3394577</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3394577@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2013/01/30/counterparties-the-non-industrious-military-complex/

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3394567</link><pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2013 09:58:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3394567</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3394567@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[and now political humor
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3394133</link><pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2013 17:43:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3394133</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3394133@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Feb 03 2013 10:59:49 PM EST</span> <span>from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"> the people who are restraining themselves from reproducing are the responsible ones, and the people who are multiplying in big numbers are the reckless ones. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Finally removing any possible genetics related to inhabition from the gene pool.  I was going to say intelligence at first, but then I realized that plenty of intelligent people are irrisponsible as all hell.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3393801</link><pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2013 22:59:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3393801</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3393801@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Studies of population growth seem reluctant to break it down in any detail
for fear of being politically incorrect, but the "Idiocracy" meme does seem
to apply to some extent -- the people who are restraining themselves from
reproducing are the responsible ones, and the people who are multiplying in
big numbers are the reckless ones. 
  
 Unfortunately the Malthusian model only focuses on supply and demand of food,
and neglects to consider cultural differences. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3393249</link><pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2013 21:05:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3393249</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3393249@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Also, population increase "wants" to be exponential... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3393248</link><pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2013 21:00:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3393248</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3393248@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Is that similar to the claim that overpopulation is no longer a   
 >problem because the *rate* of increase has slowed?   
  
 We've been having that argument since Malthus. If you read the first paragraph
or two of Malthus, you've seen that the cause and effect might be reversed:
it might not be that the we're saved because the rate has slowed; the reason
that the rate is slowing may be because people are scared shitless that they
won 
 't be able to provide for their would-be offspring. 
  
 In the US, I've seen sociological data that young men are getting married
less frequently than they did in, say, 1950, while their income share is going
down... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3392460</link><pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2013 10:20:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3392460</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3392460@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Your model is wrong. You're insisting that the only real budget cuts  

 >are those that freeze *nominal* spending at its current level.   
  
 Is that similar to the claim that overpopulation is no longer a problem because
the *rate* of increase has slowed? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3391149</link><pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:58:09 +0500</pubDate><title>depressing graphs</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3391149@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>http://esoltas.blogspot.com/2013/01/three-notes-in-key-of-ngdp.html</p>
<p>We might do better having chimps pick futures.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3391051</link><pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:43:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3391051</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3391051@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Tue Jan 29 2013 10:00:49 PM EST</span> <span>from LoanShark @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote>I nominally desire more potato(e?) chips than I should eat. </blockquote>
<br />You have a demand problem. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>But the chips only cost about 10.2 minutes of work!</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3390773</link><pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 22:00:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3390773</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3390773@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >I nominally desire more potato(e?) chips than I should eat.  
  
 You have a demand problem. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3390581</link><pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:45:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3390581</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3390581@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Tue Jan 29 2013 01:34:27 PM EST</span> <span>from LoanShark @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote>I wonder what Loanshark will find wrong with the above statement. </blockquote>
<br />Your model is wrong. You're insisting that the only real budget cuts are those that freeze *nominal* spending at its current level. <br /><br />This is so partisan and ignorant that it's not worth debating. Have a nice day </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I nominally desire more potato(e?) chips than I should eat.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3390580</link><pubDate>Tue, 29 Jan 2013 13:34:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3390580</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3390580@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >I wonder what Loanshark will find wrong with the above statement.  
  
 Your model is wrong. You're insisting that the only real budget cuts are
those that freeze *nominal* spending at its current level. 
  
 This is so partisan and ignorant that it's not worth debating. Have a nice
day 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3389136</link><pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2013 13:26:38 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3389136</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3389136@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[The EPA needs to go away.  Department of Education, Department of Energy,
the Food and Drug Administration, are the ones right off the top of my head
that serve no useful purpose and could be shut down suddenly and immediately
with no ill effects.  The FCC should be reduced to a fraction of its current
size; all it needs to do is handle spectrum allocation so that broadcasters
don't step on each other. 
  
 Homeland Security.  Disband with extreme predjudice and arrest the people
who created it. 
  
 Start listing the others... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3389133</link><pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2013 11:37:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3389133</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3389133@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I read an article the other day and the first comment was from someone complaining about evil corporations and a far 
too weak EPA.  Made me larf.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3389130</link><pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2013 10:54:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3389130</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3389130@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3389127</link><pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2013 09:54:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: Taxation without representation</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3389127@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[An exemption from Godwin's Law is hereby granted for the above post. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3389126</link><pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2013 09:53:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Taxation without representation</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3389126@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Here it comes -- this is what the next four years will look like.  Hitler Obama will continue to simply <strong>ignore</strong> Congress and do what he wants via executive fiat:</p>
<p style="text-align: center;">[ <a href="http://tinyurl.com/epa-must-die">http://tinyurl.com/epa-must-die</a> ]</p>
<p>With the myth of global warming debunked in all but the most leftist pseudo-science circles, the socialist government will now implement <strong>carbon taxes</strong> by simply empowering the EPA to do so.  It's a completely evil scheme: with Congress deadlocked, they know they won't get carbon taxes passed by legislation, so Hitler Obama and Hitler Barbara Boxer are simply going to have the EPA do it, and they're going to leverage the deadlocked Congress to prevent any legislation putting a stop to the EPA's expanded power.</p>
<p>This is called <strong>Taxation without representation</strong> and these people are directly urinating upon the graves of all who fought and died to protect us from this practice.</p>
<p>The EPA is among a large number of federal "agencies" which need to be immediately, completely, and permanently disbanded.  Preferably through the use of explosives.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3389048</link><pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:12:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3389048</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3389048@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Just like in the United States, politicians in the United Kingdom use the deceptive practice 
of “baseline budgeting” as part of fiscal policy.
 This means the politicians can increase spending, but simultaneously claim they are cutting 
spending because the budget could have expanded at an even faster pace.
 Sort of like saying your diet is successful because you’re only gaining two pounds a week 
rather than five pounds.

I wonder what Loanshark will find wrong with the above statement.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3385270</link><pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2013 08:50:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3385270</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3385270@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[It is politics because it is background on some of the vice-presidents.
It is propaganda because you don't really know how much BS it is.
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3380752</link><pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2013 17:33:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3380752</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3380752@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 The constitution has been used to justify several different outlandish court
decisions in our history. Here are a few exaples: 
  
 http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2012/06/constitutional.html 
  
 Quote: 
  
 "The key is that the Supreme Court moves as a political (and moral) entity--and
not as a judicial entity developing and extending precedent in an arena of
laws set by common-law history and legislation. And, of course, the odd thing
is that since Marbury vs. Madison (1803) there is precedent that the Supreme
Court can do this." 
  
 You may think that the Supreme Court should not legislate from the bench.
And perhaps they shouldn't: there is value in the idea that the Court should
defer to Congress if Congress has chosen a reasonable approach to a particular
problem. 
  
 But you can't pretend that the Constitution is easily interpreted, and that
the Court's sole function is "developing
and extending precedent in an arena of laws set by           
 common-law history and legislation" -- that is simply not possible in pratice.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3380751</link><pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2013 17:18:45 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3380751</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3380751@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 What will happen if the insane assclowns in the House follow through on their
threats (they won't, they're bluffing) 
  
 http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/01/07/this-is-what-would-happen-if-we-breach-the-debt-ceiling/

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3380746</link><pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2013 16:27:48 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3380746</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3380746@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 He didn't exactly say we should be rid of it. 
  
 He said sometimes we should not let it get in the way.  But he did a very
poor job of defining when we should or shouldn't follow the Constitution,
at least where politicians are concerned.  So, it comes off as saying that
we should be rid of it. 
  
 To some degree, I get the thrust of what he's saying.  If I had to boil the
whole article down to a brief, I would suggest that he's saying we shouldn't
be so fucking litigious, and use our brains when faced with legal issues to
do what is obviously right rather than following the ink of long-dead people
who couldn't anticipate every nuance of the future. 
  
 However, our culture is litigious.  We have as much hope of following the
spirit of the law rather than the letter as we have in the idea that solar
energy could daily power all our cars. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3379428</link><pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 12:54:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3379428</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3379428@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 It's an op-ed, not an official Times editorial. Sadly, they're still giving
David Brooks his salary. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3379148</link><pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 22:55:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3379148</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3379148@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[In the "so ridiculous it couldn't possibly be real, but it is" department
... the New York Slimes has actually published an article advocating the idea
of doing away with the Constitution. 
  
 I think we should do away with the media.  They're obviously enemy combatants
and should be treated as such. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3378252</link><pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 21:41:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3378252</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3378252@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 dothebart: can't speak to your last two paragraphs but your initial question
was "why don't they fork?"   
    
 american politics don't fork (beyond the two major parties, each of which
has their own corresponding far-{left,right}-wing parties which are generally
considered irrelevant) because the system is constructed in such away that
the far-{left,right}-wing parties can't build a power base barring very unusual
circumstances (like Ross Perot's candidacy or Theodore Roosevelt's Bull Moose
Party).   
    
 for example, in the European situation, you generally have parliamentary
democracies; the minor parties get some voice because the parliamentary system
awards them seats in proportion to their popular vote if I'm not mistaken.
But in the US it's winner-take-all by each district, and there is no runoff
voting, so there is no incentive for anybody to vote for the minor parties
unless
they view it as a protest vote.   
  
  
 So in states like most European countries, and also Israel, you have governing
coalitions between some major party and one weaker party whose support was
nevertheless needed; and in European countries you can actually dissolve the
government when there is no confidence; but the system doesn't really work
that way here. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3378153</link><pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 16:42:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3378153</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3378153@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I still don't get why the tea party doesn't fork. or the non-tea-party folks doesn't get their own name and forks.</p>
<p>here in germany we have similar (ok its in some states these, and some states those) CDU (which might account the same as the republicans scaled the left/right etc. scenaio) and the CSU for bavaria.</p>
<p>But in the end, if you compare the CDU/CSU POVs directly to the american scale, they're the democrats, and the teaparty would be the nazies which are observed by the local inteligence services for being unconstitutional</p>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3378144</link><pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 13:56:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3378144</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3378144@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >No, anyone who tells you they're 
 >the same is selling indecision, negativity, and uncompromising 
 >extremism. 
 >
The two political parties  are the same. They use different issues to 
get the base worked up but the goals are the same.
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3377815</link><pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 22:34:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3377815</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3377815@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Those are among the reasons why the GOP remains a viable,   
 >plausibly-"centrist" party where the LP never will: they are out of   
 >touch with the electorate and living in a world of intellectual   
 >rigidity.   
  
 Yes.  That. 
  
 It took a long time but I eventually got to the point where it became obvious
that the LP may be the most hard line on libertarian ideals, but that they
are not the most effective vehicle for getting those ideals implemented. 
  
 That's why when the Tea Party movement showed up it was such an attractive
alternative.  It was immediately effective. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3377807</link><pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 19:03:07 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3377807</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3377807@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Jan 4 2013 4:07pm from zooer @uncnsrd   
 >No, you didn't get the message, a vote for Gary Johnson was a vote for Obama.
 A vote for Romney was a vote for the same polici >es   
 >as Obama but with a smirk instead of a snark.  
 >  
  
 The differences between our two mainstream parties are considerable. And
the two keep getting wider apart. No, anyone who tells you they're the same
is selling indecision, negativity, and uncompromising extremism. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3377806</link><pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 18:47:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3377806</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3377806@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >You said you voted straight conservative... so that means you supported
the big government, big   
 >spending, less freedom ideas of the republican party.  
  
 I now declare this silly season OPEN!!1 
  
 If you think the Republican Party that routinely obstructs just about every
new spending bill lately is a "big spender" you are living in the alternate
non-pragmatic Libertarian reality field. 
  
 Ok, the GOP is sympathetic to military spending, but there the similarities
to Big Government end. There's a gold standard plank in the party platform.
Goldwater libertarian-conservatives are still a force to be reckoned with.
 
  
 Goldwater libertarian-conservatives were never soft on national security,
however, nor should they have been in an age where conservatism was defined
by the fight against the Communist menace. If he were alive today he'd have
supported the Afghanistan war as well.

  
 Those are among the reasons why the GOP remains a viable, plausibly-"centrist"
party where the LP never will: they are out of touch with the electorate and
living in a world of intellectual rigidity. 
  
 Now if we can only get the theocrats out of the GOP, that would be a start...
but until they are gone it is necessary to build a coalition that brings them
in. And of course Libertarians don't build coalitions. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3377780</link><pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 16:07:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3377780</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3377780@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[No, you didn't get the message, a vote for Gary Johnson was a vote for Obama.  A vote for Romney was a vote for the same policies 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3377770</link><pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 15:05:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3377770</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3377770@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I gave up on the LP this year after hearing about how Gary Johnson wanted
to eviscerate our military.  This would of course pave the way for the elimination
of our own government and replacement with a United Nations controlled government,
which would implement sharia law. 
  
 A vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for the False Prophet Muhammad (a thousand
curses be unto his pig name). 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3377749</link><pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 13:21:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3377749</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3377749@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[You said you voted straight conservative... so that means you supported the big government, big 
spending, less freedom ideas of the republican party.
Don't worry, in due time the Tea Party candidates will become big government corrupt politicians.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3377745</link><pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 13:02:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3377745</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3377745@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Here in NY there is actually a Conservative Party on a separate line of the
ballot.  Usually they mirror the Republican line but not always. 
  
 This was the year I finally gave up on the Libertarian Party and voted Conservative
straight across the ballot.  Unfortunately the LP has no sense of pragmatism.

  
 But yes, the GOP are pansies.  They need fewer RINO's and more Tea Party
patriots.  Anyone not in line with the Tea Party ought to be forcibly excluded
from the party and invited to be Democrats. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3377735</link><pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 12:18:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3377735</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3377735@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Never met a libertarian or a classic liberal that felt they *had to* 
vote republican.

A conservative is a person who says they believe in limited 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3377349</link><pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 22:19:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3377349</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3377349@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Romney was suppose to lose.  (paranoid mode)  He didn't hit hard on anything,
the GOP are pansies.  
  
 They're the only viable right-leaning (or even down-leaning in the Nolan-chart
sense) party. 
  
 If you believe in libertarianism, you have a deontological duty to vote Republican.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3377333</link><pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 19:29:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3377333</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3377333@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3377313</link><pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 17:23:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3377313</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3377313@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Jan 3 2013 11:09am from zooer @uncnsrd   
 >“Ten Most Wanted Corrupt Politicians” for 2012  
 >http://goo.gl/WM1as  
  
 Still pushing the hatchet job over Benghazi, I see. If there was any substance
to it, Romney would have hit it hard during the final debate. Of course there
wasn't any substance to it, so he didn't follow up. 
  
 But since you're a libertarian, I wouldn't expect you to understand ;) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3377302</link><pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 16:04:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3377302</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3377302@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 And, sadly, they probably will get away with it. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3377289</link><pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 14:51:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3377289</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3377289@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[No big surprises.  Pretty much every one of them committed acts that clearly
demonstrated that they felt the law didn't apply to them because they were
political elites.  The truly sobering part is that they are comfortable doing
most of these things right out in the open because they are confident that
they will get away with it. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3377277</link><pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 13:32:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3377277</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3377277@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3377265</link><pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 11:19:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3377265</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3377265@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I'd ask what exactly they were wanted FOR, but it would probably just show my disinterest in reading the article past the first 3 sentences.  </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3377264</link><pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2013 11:09:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3377264</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3377264@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[“Ten Most Wanted Corrupt Politicians” for 2012
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3376997</link><pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2013 14:47:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3376997</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3376997@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[The 103-country results I'm looking at parallel a recent state-by-state 
US study:

"The results were unambiguous: when income inequality was higher, so was 
the rate of homicide. Income inequality alone explained 74% of the 
variance in murder rates and half of the aggravated assaults."
 --Eric Michael Johnson in Scientific American

Original study:

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3376990</link><pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2013 13:18:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3376990</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3376990@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Interesting, though, that the US is a category buster. We have first-world
income and near-third-world inequality. Sort the data by income and you see
that, of the countries with our level of inequality or higher, only two make
higher income than we do, and the rest are generally below the $15K/year level.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3376989</link><pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2013 13:14:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3376989</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3376989@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 The natural log of gun homicide rate is directly proportional, in my 103-country
dataset, to the Gini coefficient. The relationship holds up, maintains significance
that is, when you cut down the dataset as far as only the 38 highest-income
countries. Beyond that, it's lost in the noise. The reason for this is that
the higher-income countries tend to have low inequality, so when you filter
down to high-income countries you're also removing the trend on Gini.   
    
 This really shouldn't be surprising: the poor will always steal from the
rich that surround them, violently if necessary. The surprising part for me
was simply that the (relative) level of inequality is a better predictor than
the (absolute) level of income, for the full 103-country set. This doesn't
speak well of the human race; it hints that violence has its origins in what
we *want* rather than what we *need*.   
  
 
 And it's not a wet dream, either. Data like this is always ambiguous. Some
people will argue that if the relationship doesn't hold up within a smaller
group of higher-income countries, it's not clear enough, and they might be
right. (Sadly for them, within that smaller group, the gun ownership rate
emerges as a strong predictor, but I digress.)   
  
  
 I've always been anti-gun-control. Heller was rightly decided; the 2nd amendment
is not in danger of being overturned; handguns need to remain legal. Not a
big fan of personal nukes, RPGs; find it hard to justify assault rifle ownership.
The reason I ran the numbers was I wanted to show that income (or lack thereof)
is the predominant reason for violent crime, in the big picture across the
globe, NOT the rate of gun ownership. The data shows pretty clearly that gun
ownership is a tertiary predictor at best, for the full 103-country dataset.
It only starts to have predictive power within the rich countries, and then
of course the US is skewing the results... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3376533</link><pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2013 18:22:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3376533</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3376533@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[So ... gun violence is directly proportional to income inequality?  Or inversely
proportional? 
  
 Directly proportional would be a wet dream for the people who want more gun-confiscation
*and* more wealth redistribution. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3375342</link><pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2012 20:38:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3375342</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3375342@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 Oh, new insanelygreat(tm) results. Income ineequality (as the GINI coefficient)
explains dothebart's gun homicide statistics far better than either income
per capita or the gun ownership rate. Previously-mentioned results continue
to hold: both are better predictors than the gun ownership rate.  
  
 So much of gun violence is explained by income inequality, that in the 104-country
dataset I'm looking at, the US is "only" 0.96 standard deviations above the
mean when the model includes the Gini coefficient and income-per-capita, but
not the gun ownership rate... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3374769</link><pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:45:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3374769</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3374769@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Some of the results here: http://goo.gl/APXU6 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3374768</link><pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2012 13:41:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3374768</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3374768@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Dec 19 2012 5:22am from dothebart @uncnsrd     
 >nice statistics.     
    
 I crunched those numbers and came to some conclusions:   
    
 Across the whole dataset (excluding the records that are incomplete), adding
in GDP per capita (purchasing power parity basis) data mostly from the World
Bank, there is a strongly significant (1% level, using a log-transformed linear
model) relationship between income and gun homicides. The gun ownership rate
also provides additional explanatory power for the gun homicide rate, in conjunction
with income-per-capita, but is not significant on its own.   
    
 These overall relatioships hold up, at a less significant level, when limiting
the dataset to the 50 highest-income countries.   
    
 The United States, in particular, is getting close to +2 standard deviations
above the expectation for our level of income (omitting the gun ownership
rate
from the model.) In the 50-country dataset, we rank 3rd for statistically-unexplained
gun homicides by that metric, behind only the Bahamas (2nd) and Trinidad/Tobago
(who takes 1st.)   
  
  
 We have more gun violence than our rich-country peers. What's the answer?
I don't know, but "move to Japan" looks like a plausible option. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3372038</link><pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2012 05:22:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3372038</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3372038@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>nice statistics.</p>
<p>http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list</p>
<p>http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2011/sep/27/gun-crime-map-statistics</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>so...</p>
<p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eM2W56tv2o&amp;feature=youtu.be</p>
<p>BANG BANG! Feuer Frei!</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3365275</link><pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:18:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3365275</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3365275@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Hostess did have union problems, but I think they are solved now. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3365262</link><pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 17:20:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3365262</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3365262@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Twinkies will be back, Archway cookies disappeared for a bit and then someone purchased the name.  I think it 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3365136</link><pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 11:20:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3365136</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3365136@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><span class="GRcorrect">they</span> seem to have been kosher in some places for a brief period of time. </p>
<p>I will miss Drake's Cakes, though. Hats off to Funny Bones...</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3364961</link><pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 22:23:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3364961</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3364961@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 It's hard to imagine how one could credibly make Twinkies kosher. 
  
 It just seems antithetical to the whole point behind a Twinkie. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3364034</link><pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 16:09:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3364034</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3364034@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><span class="GRcorrect">they</span> were kosher for a few years - may be why they stopped tasting good.</p>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3364017</link><pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 14:16:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3364017</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3364017@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ Yep.  Twinkies were originally filled with banana cream up until World War
II, when bananas were rationed. 
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkie 
  
 I think Hostess' demise was mostly due to mismanagement.  Putting aside,
for the moment, how much their executives were paid, they simply didn't adapt
with the times.  In an era where more and more people are trying to be health
conscious, they kept making the same unhealthy products--and not even with
decent quality, IMHO.  I've eaten Twinkies recently, and they simply don't
taste as good as they used to.  If Hostess had bumped up their quality, they
may have at least been able to target a niche market. 
  
 Their executives being overpaid, and the union workers refusing to negotiate
were, IMHO, simply the nails in the coffin. 
   Twinkie Binder 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3361183</link><pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2012 23:43:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3361183</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3361183@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Legend has it that the "creme filling" used to be a banana custard.  I wonder
if mexi-twinkies will go back to that recipe. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3361166</link><pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2012 17:28:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3361166</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3361166@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I doubt they were ever kosher. 
  
 Although you could probably preserve bodies with them. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3361158</link><pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:28:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3361158</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3361158@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I've never had a twinkie. They weren't kosher when I lived in the US.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360923</link><pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2012 12:23:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3360923</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360923@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Looks like their CXX didn't turn out to be worth what they were paying
 
 >him. With 20/20 hindsight and all...   
  
 True.  And when that happens, the company suffers for it, and hopefully fixes
that problem.  There's no need to involve organized thuggery at any level.

  
 But as you mentioned, this is a company that suffered from both mismanagement
*and* an overly greedy union.  So perhaps it was destined for the shitter
no matter what.  I've never liked Twinkies anyway. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360892</link><pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2012 07:30:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3360892</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360892@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 Right. Well when they are all getting together and saying "if you rightsize
the delivery workers, we all quit", that probably isn't "natural" (if there
is a "natural.")   
    
 Personally I hope the brand is not acquired, and just goes away. It's been
a blight on the landscape for far too long.   
    
 I just bristle at the notion that unions are *inherently* bad. They're one
more tool in the toolbox. Wal-Mart workers should probably stay unionized.
Teamsters on the other hand have had ties to organized crime...   
    
 The problem with Hostess seems to be shitty products and greed from top to
bottom: the company has greedy creditors, greedy executives, and greedy unionized
slackers all fighting for a bigger piece of a shrinking pie, err, t   
 Twinkie.   
  
  
 Blight on the landscape. The bankruptcy judge should bar the sale of the
assets to anyone who intends to produce the product. On general principles.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360851</link><pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2012 02:31:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3360851</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360851@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I don't know about natural balances of power. If 400 people are willing to get together and say 'if you don't do x, we all quit' then it's not an unnatural shift in power - it's strength in numbers.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360835</link><pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2012 22:55:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3360835</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360835@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Perhaps each other! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360830</link><pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2012 22:23:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3360830</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360830@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Perhaps not, LS - but now what will the cockroaches eat after the nuclear holocaust?!</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360771</link><pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2012 13:11:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3360771</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360771@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >laborers, the company will eventually fail on its own.  Unions disrupt 
 
 >the natural balance of business.   
  
 There is nothing "natural" about business. It's all a human activity and
thus entirely artificial to begin with. 
  
 There is especially nothing "natural" about a company that makes Twinkies
and Ding Dongs. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360770</link><pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2012 13:09:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3360770</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360770@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >business and they deserve to fail.  On the other hand, if they feel   
 >that some CXX is really so talented that it's worth megabucks for   
 >his/her ability to rescue a company and/or propel it to the next level,
 
 >that's their perogative too.   
  
 Looks like their CXX didn't turn out to be worth what they were paying him.
With 20/20 hindsight and all... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360751</link><pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2012 10:29:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3360751</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360751@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[If a company wants to overcompensate its executives, that's just bad business
and they deserve to fail.  On the other hand, if they feel that some CXX is
really so talented that it's worth megabucks for his/her ability to rescue
a company and/or propel it to the next level, that's their perogative too.

  
 It's a nice distraction but it's orthogonal to what's happening in the same
company at the labor level.  This isn't a factory town where you either work
for the one company or your family starves.  Yes, work is hard to find these
days, but the old adage "they can just go work somewhere else" still applies.
 If a company is mismanaged, overpays its executives and underpays its laborers,
the company will eventually fail on its own.  Unions disrupt the natural balance
of business. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360456</link><pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 22:08:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3360456</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360456@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/26/hostess-twinkies-bankrupt/

Hostess pays Rayburn $125,000 a month, according to court filings. At the same time Rayburn became CEO, Gephardt's son Matthew, 
41, the COO of the Gephardt Group, was put on the Hostess board as a $100,000-a-year independent director.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360451</link><pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 21:31:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3360451</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360451@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 IG, it's my understanding that the execs for Hostess garnered a tripled salary
after the company declared bankruptcy for a second time. 
  
 Now, I don't know the full story, but if I were working somewhere and my
boss garnered a huge pay raise like that, while they're asking me to take
a pay cut or otherwise try to 'save the company', I would have a bit of an
attitude about it (and most likely would look for work elsewhere).  I probably
wouldn't look for ways to help save the company, as I wouldn't believe they
had an interest in saving their own skins. 
  
 I don't doubt the unions were also part of the problem here, though.  I suspect
the situation is more complicated than we know. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360446</link><pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 19:56:03 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3360446</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360446@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Now give me more, give me more [Twinkies] to consume. I'm fatter than Elvis
and I'm cheekier than Jesus in this V.I.P. Room. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360265</link><pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 13:23:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3360265</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360265@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360260</link><pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 13:03:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: Organized thuggery and the decline of American labor</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360260@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Riiiiiight.   
  
 They're going bankrupt because their products suck. Suck Blue Whale. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360230</link><pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:37:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3360230</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360230@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Not sure what you mean - this is a society full of immigrants. There are a number of different workplaces that are appropriate for English-speakers. My husband speaks almost no Hebrew. I've never done a job which required real Hebrew ability. </p>
<p>Bottom line is that unions may have gotten out of control (here too, and all the unions are connected, so if the teachers don't get raises, the airport closes...), but there's a need for workers to pull together to prevent abuse by employers.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360213</link><pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:00:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3360213</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360213@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Wow, I didn't know they used so much American labor in Israel. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360100</link><pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 02:18:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3360100</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360100@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I've been an exploited worker in a company which was 100% private non-union, blah blah blah.</p>
<p>The situation - the 'shop' is in a place where there aren't a lot of jobs, and is willing to accept people who speak only English (in Israel). </p>
<p>Therefore they were able to take college-educated professionals and pay them just a smidge above minimum wage and treat them like crap. </p>
<p>Since there aren't a lot of jobs for these people, the workers are scared to make a fuss and get fired. The atmosphere was one of fear and hatred. Workers spied on each other because if you were trusted by the big boss, you might get a raise. </p>
<p>The big boss felt free to yell, make excessive demands, and just be a total jerk. </p>
<p>If the workers had pulled together to stand against it, maybe wages could have been livable. </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360086</link><pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 22:20:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Organized thuggery and the decline of American labor</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360086@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I've been giving a lot of thought to this whole Hostess thing.  It's been
interesting to observe that it took a couple of days for it to become apparent
that the general public is frowning upon what happened, and for the leftoid
types to start spinning up a narrative about how what killed Hostess wasn't
the union -- who was making ridiculous demands such as Hostess cakes and Wonder
breads needing to be delivered by separate trucks to the exact same locaions
-- but that instead it was killed by those greedy 1% types in the corporate
offices.  Riiiiiight. 
  
 Anyway, the conventional wisdom among most rational people is that unions
served a purpose in the distant past, when employers were genuinely abusive
and workers had no recourse, but that in the modern era they have become little
more than self-serving organized thuggery that drives up the cost of American
labor, often acting as a
parasite that eventually kills its host (first companies like Hostess, but
ultimately American labor in general). 
  
 But did that horrific past actually transpire the way we think it did? 
  
 It is said that the victors get to write the history books.  So think back
and remember where you learned the history of organized labor.  Was it taught
to you by ... a *unionized* school teacher? 
  
 Yes, there are of course some clear historical examples of abuse; the most
often cited is the 1911 fire at the Triangle Shirtwaist factory, but I wonder
if the larger trend has been overstated. 
  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3360064</link><pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 19:30:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3360064</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3360064@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I imagined substituting that Badgers Badgers tune with Twinkie Twinkie Mumble
Mumble instead. 
  
 "Oh me god! Rake!  Rake!  Oh, it's a rake!" 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3359620</link><pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 22:49:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3359620</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3359620@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><br />Not anymore....</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3359604</link><pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:29:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3359604</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3359604@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 We interrupt your regularly scheduled conversation with: Twinkie twinkie
twinkie twinkie! Mumble mumble! Twinkie! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3359184</link><pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 11:16:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3359184</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3359184@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[But the packaging and marketing said it could do all sorts of amazing things, it would revolutionize and change the way things happen in 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3359081</link><pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:34:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3359081</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3359081@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Actually it is functioning perfectly according to its specifications.  The
problem is that it's completely the wrong tool for the job. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3358999</link><pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 22:51:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3358999</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3358999@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3358989</link><pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 21:13:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3358989</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3358989@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><br />No it's not.  It was broken when we found it.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3358961</link><pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 13:36:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3358961</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3358961@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Do not trust the Obama robot.  It is malfunctioning. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3358139</link><pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:54:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3358139</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3358139@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Heh... really. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3358060</link><pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:45:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3358060</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3358060@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Somebody needs to be protected from the terrible secret of space. Do you
have CLIFF in your house? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3357903</link><pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:59:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3357903</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3357903@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 Quote of the day:   
    
 ""The tedious repetition of poll-tested talking points is simply that and
the longer the president uses them as a substitute for leadership, the more
difficult it will be to solve our many problems."   
  
  
 -- Mitch McConnell (R/KY) commenting on B. H. Osama's plan to avoid the fiscal
cliff with a $1.6 TRILLION tax hike. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3357126</link><pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2012 20:24:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3357126</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3357126@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 The outcome of which was the 14th Amendment, which states in part, "No State
shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities
of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person
within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." 
  
 I'm not saying the end justifies the means, but you could make an argument
that there was no such concept as individual liberty, within our legal system,
until the Civil War. :) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3356938</link><pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:29:35 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3356938</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3356938@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Last time some states tried to secede, we had a very nasty war. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3356928</link><pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2012 11:47:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3356928</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3356928@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Nice.  Inconvenient as it may nbe, after the next civil war I will gleefully
move to America. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3355865</link><pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2012 02:16:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3355865</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3355865@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>http://now.msn.com/15-states-start-petitons-to-leave-the-usa</p>
<p>now that'd be worth naming it tea party.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3353811</link><pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2012 17:25:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3353811</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3353811@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Yeah, and it's going to look *nothing* like what Tom Icom and the rest of
that socially and mentally challenged crowd are imagining. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3353792</link><pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2012 14:58:45 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3353792</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3353792@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 A Collapse! A Collapse! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3353750</link><pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2012 10:56:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3353750</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3353750@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 We don't know whether A. F. Tytler is actually to be credited for what has
become known as the Tytler Cycle, but what is quite clear now is that we entered
the degenerative portion of the cycle quite some time ago.  We may even be
at the point where it cannot be slowed nor reversed. 
  
 What we now know is that slightly more than half of the voters (give or take
whatever percentage you would like to attribute to cheating and/or manipulation)
believe more in "free stuff" than in "freedom." 
  
 It's going to get worse before it gets better.  I hope and pray that it will
be a soft collapse. 
  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3353652</link><pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2012 10:10:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3353652</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3353652@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[And now we know what Europe continues to devolve faster than the US. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3353264</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2012 21:34:48 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3353264</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3353264@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Now we will find out what the 1980's would have been like if Carter had won
a second term. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3353010</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2012 14:05:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3353010</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3353010@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>
	As a foreign citizen I can tell you that we find all of your presidents obnoxious because of the general &quot;We know what&#39;s best for the whole world attitude&quot;. But &nbsp;we olde eurpoeans truly detest your republican presidents. So this Bronko Bamma guy is more tolerable for us.</p>
<p>
	Also, as a country having been ruled by christian conservatives for 16 years, 8 years of socialist green/ecological coalition and now in the seventh year of a conservative-liberal coalition, I can tell you that only the lube has different color, you get screwed over the same way by all of them.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3352943</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2012 10:21:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3352943</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3352943@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<sigh> 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3352719</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2012 06:13:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3352719</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3352719@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Grrr... 
  
 I knew I should have voted Obama.  The people for whom I cast my vote never
win. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3352700</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2012 03:07:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3352700</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3352700@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I am happy it is over and didn't go into recounts and provisional ballots.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3352697</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2012 03:01:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3352697</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3352697@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>and... <span id="GRmark_0aed31e6c1857b4482d30bdb8638877277212dea_some:0" class="GRcorrect">some</span> animal must've seen its shadow... </p>
<p>I hope the next 4 years are better than the previous.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3352679</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 23:45:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3352679</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3352679@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><br />You may get that wish...  :-/</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3352670</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 23:01:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3352670</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3352670@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[The best thing that could happen to the LP this year would be for Ba'raq Osama
to win.  That might be the straw that breaks the camel's back and causes a
mass exodus of true conservatives from the GOP.  If the Tea Party movement
set up camp inside the LP, perhaps they would shove aside the unrealistically
non-pragmatic crowd that runs it now. 
  
 Of course, if Osama wins this election, there might not be any hope for saving
the country four years from now at all. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3352648</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 19:07:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3352648</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3352648@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > I would have preferred to vote Libertarian, but I have no confidence 
 >in the current choice. 


He wouldn't win, *BUT* if he could get five percent it would allow the libertarian party ballot access and federal 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3352617</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 17:12:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3352617</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3352617@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>thats why I like pen &amp; paper:</p>
<p>http://tv.msnbc.com/2012/11/06/machine-turns-vote-for-obama-into-one-for-romney/</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3352609</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 16:53:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3352609</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3352609@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 It's a shame, though.  I would have loved to have rewarded the president
who stopped the Don't Ask Don't Tell nonsense, but even there, Obama just
did what was already set up after several years of preparation. 
  
 I would have preferred to vote Libertarian, but I have no confidence in the
current choice. 
  
 So, since Romney isn't as extreme as he's painted, I went with that.  If
he gets into office, I pray he fixes the broken fiscal policies of our current
administration and helps get our country back on its feet again. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3352608</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 16:51:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3352608</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3352608@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 The Dems tried to pain Romney as a right-wing nutjob extremist, but I didn't
buy it. 
  
 Obama, by contrast, has done almost everything that I despise in a leader
since taking office.  He forced a broken health care plan on the people without
any consideration for what it would do to America.  He has beaten Shrub at
his own game of 'ignore congress and do whatever the fuck I want'. And he
has stifled inquiries into anything he's done that might be even remotely
controversial, making him the most secretive president in my life. 
  
 Someone needs to teach him that he serves us, not the other way around. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3352607</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 16:44:32 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3352607</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3352607@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 lol 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3352572</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 14:07:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3352572</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3352572@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Pat Robertson?  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3352425</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 09:19:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3352425</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3352425@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[One is afeard as to fleeb's voting choices 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3352413</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 08:12:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3352413</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3352413@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I think I would have blown Ragnar's mind today. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3352334</link><pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2012 21:38:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: IGnatius T Foobar&#39;s official endorsement</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3352334@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >to watch this video. Watch it over and over again until you're
 >convinced that a vote for

Watch this video over and over.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS7vCRlDC6A
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3352333</link><pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2012 21:31:28 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: IGnatius T Foobar&#39;s official endorsement</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3352333@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >convinced that a vote for Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan is the only
 >sensible way to save this country.

As someone who currently resides in NY state, and New York state is solid blue I feel better than ever about voting for Johnson.  
Perhaps if I was in Florida I might have to think about it.  When I thought about Barr/McCain/Obama in 2008 it didn't matter. 

Johnson will get my vote.  Perhaps the libertarians will 5% of the vote, break through and become a "major" party, getting ballot 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3351812</link><pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2012 06:56:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3351812</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3351812@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Thu Nov 01 2012 07:10:25 EDT</span> <span>from zooer @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content"><tt>This is a video of me in the morning.</tt><br /> <tt><a href="http://youtu.be/OjrthOPLAKM" target="webcit01">http://youtu.be/OjrthOPLAKM</a></tt><br /> </div>
</blockquote>
<p>whew, it made it into spiegel online?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>http://www.spiegel.de/video/abigale-evans-aus-colorado-hat-genug-vom-us-wahlkampf-video-1232327.html</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3350061</link><pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2012 12:39:43 +0500</pubDate><title>IGnatius T Foobar&#39;s official endorsement</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3350061@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><span style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px;">As most of you know, I have voted Libertarian my entire adult life. So it may surprise you to know that I am cheerfully endorsing, and will vote for, Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan. I have given up on the Libertarian Party because each year the</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px;">y fall further and further out of touch with reality ... and now, the Tea Party movement offers a more effective and more pragmatic course towards smaller government and individual liberty than the LP ever did.</span></p>
<div class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline; color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px;">There's a more conventional argument, of course, and the well-spoken Bill Whittle argues it more clearly and effectively than I can -- and more effectively than it was ever argued to me. I encourage all of my libertarian friends, and all who are planning to "sit this one out," to watch this video. Watch it over and over again until you're convinced that a vote for Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan is the only sensible way to save this country.</div>
<p><iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wPjBXufufUU" frameborder="0" width="560" height="315"></iframe></p>
<p>(If you can't see the embbedded video, go to <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPjBXufufUU">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPjBXufufUU</a> to watch it.)</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3349385</link><pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2012 07:10:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3349385</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3349385@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[This is a video of me in the morning.
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3348942</link><pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 18:02:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: The Yes Men on Kickstarter, raising money for a new movie</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3348942@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>hm, reminds me to... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELpmmeT69cE</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3348342</link><pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:20:48 +0500</pubDate><title>The Yes Men on Kickstarter, raising money for a new movie</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3348342@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>
	http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1194236337/the-yes-men-are-revolting</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3346173</link><pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2012 12:28:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3346173</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3346173@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Intrade is a bad example - too limited a cross section of the population.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3345201</link><pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2012 18:05:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3345201</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3345201@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 It'll be interesting to see what happens on Nov 1, when people can start
betting on the race without incurring any Intrade fees. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3344896</link><pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:03:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3344896</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3344896@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I watch InTrade, and the Obama odds dropped yesterday as the Romney 
rose so you could be right.  I read an article on how people manipulate 
InTrade but it didn't relate to any particular candidate.  I think it 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3344614</link><pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:26:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3344614</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3344614@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 There's a theory going round that Romney campaign operatives and other supporters
(call them Romney bulls) are purposefully bidding up the Romney odds on Intrade,
beyond what is supported by the fundamentals. 
  
 If true, they are giving away free money to arbitrageurs, as Romney's odds
are much lower on other betting sites, which suggests that one could make
a ton of free money with a highly-leveraged long/short strategy ;) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3343926</link><pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 17:08:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3343926</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3343926@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Mon Oct 22 2012 00:10:27 EDT</span> <span>from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">I thought Reagan's landslide was his re-election, running against Mondale. <br />Was his first election a large margin as well? </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I guess the americans could save a lot of money and stress, if you'd have to win a poll whether the president should be a presidential election after 4 years in first place.</p>
<p>How many of them didn't make it another 4 years?</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3343915</link><pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:57:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3343915</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3343915@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[So how about that big Donald Trump announcement today?  Now it's time for
Obozo to put up or shut up. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3343573</link><pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:27:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3343573</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3343573@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Well, who won the debate last night? 
 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3343486</link><pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 12:46:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3343486</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3343486@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 On the other hand, Obama's odds on Intrade are down slightly after the debate.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3343485</link><pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 12:45:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3343485</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3343485@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-10-22/48-percent-say-obama-won-40-percent-say-romney-won-in-cnn-poll

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3343480</link><pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 12:15:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3343480</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3343480@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Well, who won the debate last night?   
  
 I'm not sure, but I've got the worst hangover in years. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3343441</link><pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:41:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3343441</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3343441@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Obama is not a natural born American citizen and is therefore ineligible to
be POTUS, so Romney wins by default. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3343427</link><pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:35:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3343427</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3343427@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Well, who won the debate last night? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3342879</link><pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2012 23:00:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3342879</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3342879@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >I'd like to get a new TV.  I suppose all I need to do in order to make 
 
 >that happen is watch the debate.   
  
 Sooner or later, BOOM. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3342870</link><pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2012 21:23:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3342870</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3342870@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I'd like to get a new TV.  I suppose all I need to do in order to make that
happen is watch the debate. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3342837</link><pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:28:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3342837</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3342837@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I still remember someone's idea of having a Mondale doll in their car so
they could allegedly get away with speeding down the highway. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3342679</link><pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:24:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3342679</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3342679@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 True, Reagan also beat Mondale in a landslide. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3342618</link><pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2012 00:10:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3342618</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3342618@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I thought Reagan's landslide was his re-election, running against Mondale.
 Was his first election a large margin as well? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3342606</link><pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:37:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3342606</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3342606@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3342567</link><pubDate>Sun, 21 Oct 2012 08:45:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3342567</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3342567@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 George McGovern, the conscientious anti-Vietnam democratic liberal who lost
to Nixon in a landslide, is dead today. 
  
 Ever since McGovern's landslide loss and Goldwater's landslide loss, it seems
that both parties have consistently played it safer. As a result, we may have
become a 50/50 nation - every recent election has been right around a 50/50
split, with the winner decided by single digit percentage points in the popular
vote and the winner often emerging with only a 40-something percent minority
in the popular vote. So that's the new Nash equilibrium and perhaps not a
good one. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3342511</link><pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2012 14:33:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3342511</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3342511@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Well, not really, but it's fun to say.  :) 
  
 It is true, however, that my frustration with the LP's failure to be a good
steward of libertarian politics has forced me to look elsewhere, and the Tea
Party movement seems to be a better and more effective outlet for that. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341919</link><pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 16:21:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341919</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341919@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > I will be voting for the closest thing we have to an anti-Microsoft   
 >candidate.  
 > Someone who in 2005 fought a lot of lobbying and pressure from   
 >Microsoft and adopted ODF (Open Document Format) as the official file  

 >format for the Massachusetts state government.   
  
 *snicker* If that's your criteria, more power to ya. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341901</link><pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:15:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341901</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341901@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><br />Sounds like someone saw Shrugged this weekend  :-)</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341897</link><pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:56:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341897</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341897@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341896</link><pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:55:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341896</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341896@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[That's why it's a thought experiment and not a proposal for actual implementation.
 :) 
  
 Uncoincidentally it's also the reason why I've largely given up on the LP.
 Year after year they demonstrate that they don't understand that the kind
of government they want, ideal as it may be, must be implemented in an order
that (as we tech folks understand it) satisfies dependencies. 
  
 For example, it may be easier to throw open the borders than to reform health
care, but it's impractical to do so until we get to a point where no one can
ever be coerced to pay someone else's hospital bills. 
  
 A "supreme libertarian dictator" would simply yank out all of the pieces
at the same time, eliminating the "piecemeal" problem. 
  
 Of course no such thing can exist in practice, at least not in the current
environment.  In practice if we had a leader with supreme executive power
it would lead to the
usual abuses. 
  
 We do have an opportunity to vote for a checked-and-balanced executive this
year.  I will not be voting for the current occupant of the white house, who
simply ignores checks and balances and does what he wants via executive orders
or sending things through government agencies when they should be sent to
Congress. 
  
 I will be voting for the closest thing we have to an anti-Microsoft candidate.
 Someone who in 2005 fought a lot of lobbying and pressure from Microsoft
and adopted ODF (Open Document Format) as the official file format for the
Massachusetts state government. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341884</link><pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:48:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341884</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341884@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >I think you both misunderstand the thought experiment.  Such a   
 >"dictator" would use his or her supreme executive power to quickly   
 >deregulate everything.   
  
 I get you, I'm just saying it doesn't work that way in practice. These libertarian
ideas, in actual practice, end up being implemented piecemeal in a way that
doesn't make sense -- like the example I described. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341879</link><pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:07:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341879</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341879@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I think you both misunderstand the thought experiment.  Such a "dictator"
would use his or her supreme executive power to quickly deregulate everything.

  
 For example: 
  
 * Hand full control of the Federal Reserve to Ron Paul, with orders to shut
it down 
  
 * Hand full control of the Department of Energy to Sarah Palin, with orders
to shut it down 
  
 * Dismantle 90% of the IRS by switching to a simple tax plan with no brackets
or deductions 
  
 * Reduce the FCC to the point where it is merely an ARIN-like entity for
spectrum management 
  
 * Reduce the FDA to the point where it merely enforces truthful and full
disclosure labels 
  
 * Shut down the Department of Education, immediately and completely 
  
  
 In other words, and yes I am deliberately using loaded words, implement a
"libertarian utopia" in the United States without getting stonewalled by statists
in other parts of
government. 
  
 Obviously one of the larger questions is whether any person exists who could
wield such power without falling to the temptation to eventually abuse it.
 I for example would do all of the above, but I would also find excuses to
dismantle Microsoft and Facebook. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341875</link><pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:20:35 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341875</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341875@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Hmm, that's actually an interesting thought experiment.  What would   
 >happen if supreme executive power were given to someone who used it to 
 
 >implement hardcore laissez-faire policy?  Is it even possible?   
  
 Seems inherently contradictory. If you need men with guns to enforce it,
it can't be laissez-faire. 
  
 I've been developing the notion, for a while now, that attempts to harden
the money supply, along Austrian lines, will only result in the government
being used as a debt collection agency of last resort for the banks. The tax
collectors become agents of the bank. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341870</link><pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:01:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341870</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341870@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA["If only they used their power for good instead of evil."
-Maxwell Smart #86

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341777</link><pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:52:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341777</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341777@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Hmm, that's actually an interesting thought experiment.  What would happen
if supreme executive power were given to someone who used it to implement
hardcore laissez-faire policy?  Is it even possible? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341639</link><pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 20:08:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341639</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341639@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341638</link><pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 20:07:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341638</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341638@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > I have a dream that I will one day live in a world where 
 > I rule over everyone :) 

So you went from claiming to voting for and being a libertarian to saying you want to be a statist dictator?
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341539</link><pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 18:44:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341539</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341539@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Libertarian dictator IG will SMASH Redmond. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341440</link><pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:57:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341440</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341440@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >I have a dream that I will one day live in a world where people don't want
to rule over others.  
  
 I have a dream that I will one day live in a world where I rule over everyone
:) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341439</link><pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 15:57:03 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341439</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341439@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > In particular, post 9/11 the American population is not anti-war or   
 >isolationist enough for the LP or the GP;  average opinion can not be  

 >satisfied by the hardline Austrian economics of the LP;   
  
 Agreed.  I've been voting LP my entire adult life but I've about had it with
them.  In particular I just can't get myself to vote for someone who wants
to dismantle the military at a time when the world is more dangerous than
it has been in a long time. 
  
 The discussion about wanting a better voting system is included herein by
reference. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341326</link><pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 13:34:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341326</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341326@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 +1. 
  
 Have you got any gin? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341324</link><pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 13:13:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341324</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341324@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>well, since the american society has proven to be less upward permeable than many other societies (being born in worker class, making the way up), one could compare "the american dream" to the praise of a dozend virgins in paradise if you die for alah or the sausage you hang unreachable in front of a dog which you want to pull something.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341321</link><pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 13:04:19 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341321</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341321@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >I have a dream that my two little children will one day live in a
 >nation where debates are held not between a moderate liberal and an
 >extreme liberal, but between a republican conservative and a
 >libertarian conservative. 
 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341217</link><pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 11:04:35 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341217</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341217@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 IG came in while I was typing, that was @zooer. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341216</link><pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 11:03:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341216</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341216@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[      
 Well you're saying that in a snide tone of voice but yes that's exactly why.
I mean we don't like it but we're in a democratic society.     
      
 In particular, post 9/11 the American population is not anti-war or isolationist
enough for the LP or the GP; average opinion can not be satisfied by the hardline
Austrian economics of the LP; average opinion rejects the opposing extremes
of the GP. If Obama can't get his policies through Congress it's silly to
think that the GP could do better. Etc.     
      
 Voting is a lot like a Keynesian Beauty Contest. If you don't pick the winner
you don't win anything. And psychological studies have shown (I am going to
cheap out here, I lost the URL) that you can ask people their preferences
in such a contest, and you get one set of answers; but people are also able
to, correctly, set aside their own preferences and tell you what the average
preference is likely to be.[D[D[D.     
    
    
 Moreover there is a deep-seated centrist suspicion of far-left/far-right
parties. Both have been associated with violence in the bad parts of the 20th
century. Violenet leftist radicals get a bad name for that, and so does any
party whose leading lights are self-proclaimed anarchists, or have apologised
for Fascism.   
  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341214</link><pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 10:52:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341214</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341214@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I would have preferred to see Obama arrested.  After all, he <em>is</em> a war criminal <em>and</em> an illegal immigrant <em>and</em> has prominently committed purjury.  However, we knew going in that such a thing would be unlikely.</p>
<p>It is estimated that the liberal media is responsible for a swing of 15% to 40% towards the left.  It is <em>finally</em> becoming apparent that more effort needs to be put into dismantling the liberal media, otherwise they will continue indoctrinating new commies faster than Americans can educate new patriots.</p>
<p><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: small;">And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: small;">I have a dream that my two little children will one day live in a nation where debates are held not between a moderate liberal and an extreme liberal, but between a republican conservative and a libertarian conservative.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Verdana; font-size: small;">[ see also: </span><a href="http://alfonzorachel.com/713/the-democrats-dont-own-dr-martin-luther-king">http://alfonzorachel.com/713/the-democrats-dont-own-dr-martin-luther-king</a> ]</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341207</link><pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:34:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341207</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341207@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Sad but true there is probably no way out. I 
 >don't see either the Greens or the Libertarians as garnering sufficient
 >popular support to organize a true governing coalition. 
 > 

Because if you don't vote for the ______ candidate the other side will win.... and it will be so much worsererer. So 
you better vote for ______ cause if you don't it is a vote for (-)_________ explanation point explanation point 
explanation point. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341141</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 23:36:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341141</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341141@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >impartial moderator responded with misinformation that she didn't  
  
 There was no misinformation that I'm aware of from the moderator. O did in
fact use the word "terror"... and quite frankly, Mitt's point was stupid to
begin with. All this quibbling about the precise wording of Obama's speeches...
it's the last refuge of a man who doesn't have anything substantive to say,
so he focuses on political theatre. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341140</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 23:33:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341140</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341140@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Debate?  Funny I didn't see Gary Johnson there, they arrested Jill Stien
before the debate.  How can you have a debate when   
 >both candidates belive the same thing?  
  
 This is tricky, but I'll bite. We're a democratic society and democracies
never do the right thing. Both parties end up playing to the common denominator.
Sad but true there is probably no way out. I don't see either the Greens or
the Libertarians as garnering sufficient popular support to organize a true
governing coalition. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341108</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 17:43:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341108</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341108@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><br />At least they were both lively this time.</p>
<p>Sadly, Romney really flubbed what should have been a perfect punch on that Libya issue...not that it helped any that the supposedly impartial moderator responded with misinformation that she didn't take back until this morning.  He's also going to get clubbed on that "binders full of women" remark.</p>
<p>Wonder whether his successful putting of Obama in his place a couple of times will be seen as strong or condescending?</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341063</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:33:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341063</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341063@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Debate?  Funny I didn't see Gary Johnson there, they arrested Jill Stien before the debate.  How can you have a debate when 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3341059</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:34:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3341059</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3341059@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Any comments on the Romney v. Obama+Crowley debate last night?  I think Romney
fared well against his opponents but he should have brought a tag team partner
of his own. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3339329</link><pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2012 10:15:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3339329</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3339329@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Onieda County New York misspells Presidents name on sample ballots.
http://www.uticaod.com/latestnews/x2051148595/Oops-Presidents-name-misspelled-on-county-sample-ballots

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3339070</link><pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2012 21:38:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3339070</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3339070@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><br />Hmm....IIRC, It was indeed a Black Thing on Camzotz....</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3339018</link><pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2012 16:25:03 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3339018</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3339018@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I love it when fleeb is in a punchy mood. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3338997</link><pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2012 13:49:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3338997</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3338997@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I sure hope they're black. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3338991</link><pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2012 12:46:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3338991</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3338991@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3338510</link><pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 22:37:57 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3338510</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3338510@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Oh, well, in that case, NIGGER! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3338507</link><pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 22:08:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3338507</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3338507@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[You can't say "ZING."  That's a racist word. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3337639</link><pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 17:02:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3337639</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3337639@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 ZING! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3337630</link><pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 15:40:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3337630</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3337630@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[What is the difference?  (HA!) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3337562</link><pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 12:17:35 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3337562</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3337562@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>hm, not news but...</p>
<p>http://newsblaze.com/story/20090221100148tsop.nb/topstory.html</p>
<p>americans are eight times more likely to be killed by a police officer than by a terrorist</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3336528</link><pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 20:36:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3336528</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3336528@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Ladyhawke, the "admits to lying" claim is totally substantiated by like totally
reliable hearsay. From a usually reliable source. Actually I don't know him.
Actually he just posts on Twitter. But his name is Michael Grunwald and you
can see his tweet right there, in the article^Wblog post. 
  
 Michael Grunwald. Remember that name. He's a published author, you know.
Do you think he'll get sued for libel over that one tweet? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3336527</link><pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 20:31:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3336527</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3336527@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 WAAH! WAAAH! Burp. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3336505</link><pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 18:10:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3336505</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3336505@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[After about 36 hours the liberal media finally seemed to come to a concensus
that they'd explain away Romney's kick-ass victory in the debate by simply
claiming that he was lying about everything. 
  
 Ho-hum.  It was a lot more fun watching Chris "Tingles" Matthews having an
apoplectic tantrum on Wednesday night. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3336499</link><pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 17:36:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3336499</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3336499@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><br />LS, although the title of the blurb is that Romney admits to lying, no where in the 2 paragraphs is there any actual mention of this, nor any substantiation of that claim.</p>
<p>The fact-checkers had a ball with both candidates - as they do following most debates.  But that is not the same thing.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3336479</link><pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 15:18:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3336479</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3336479@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Romney came across as the more confident candidate. So he won. 
  
 By lying, that is... dishonest assertions about his plan for pre-existing
conditions; completely false claims about energy loans: http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/10/04/960881/romney-admits-pushing-misinformation-in-debate/

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3336247</link><pubDate>Fri, 05 Oct 2012 02:37:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3336247</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3336247@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[The debate... I found it difficult to watch in the same way that I find nails
on a chalkboard hard to listen to. What's the point of having a debate if
you're going to blatantly ignore and then insult the moderator and do whatever
you want anyway. Both were guilty of this but I felt Romney started it. My
favorite line... R: "Let's talk about..." Lehrer: "No. Let's not..."  
  
 Then when Obama said "I had five seconds before you interrupted me" ... 

  
 Maybe the next debate can be moderated with a cattle prod. What a joke that
was. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3336137</link><pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:54:19 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3336137</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3336137@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[http://youtu.be/iNhUI8ktHuw 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3336132</link><pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2012 19:20:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3336132</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3336132@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Obama tried to do damage control this morning by claiming that the man on
stage last night "wasn't the real Mitt Romney."   
    
 Actually, the opponent against whom he's been campaigning has been a caricature
of Romney manufactured by the liberal media.  Last night he had a chance to
meet the *real* Mitt Romney: a family man, a business man, a likeable fellow
with a great deal of common sense.   
    
 If Obama wants to avoid a repeat of last night's ass-kicking, the liberal
media is going to have to work harder to tilt the field in his favor.   
  
  
 As for the debate itself, I think Romney's closing remarks were excellent.
 He summarized that the Constitution and the Declaration are of paramount
importance, and that it's the job of government to defend them. 
  
 The sobriquet of "trickle-down government," although coy, was a zinger. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3336127</link><pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2012 19:06:38 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3336127</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3336127@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><br />Surprisingly, Romney actually acted alive, though I'm not sure he did as great a job at articulating his proposals as he might have intended.  On the other hand, Obama spent most of the night with a peeved expression on his face and had an unsurprisingly difficult time defending his last four years. </p>
<p>Think I'd have liked to see them employ a less structured format so they could have interacted with each other directly more because I don't think last night's debate did much to change anyone's mind.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3336017</link><pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2012 17:03:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3336017</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3336017@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Debate performance last night....  Discuss. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3330972</link><pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2012 16:16:35 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3330972</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3330972@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Listen, as much as I think Harry Reid is a douchebag, I don't think it's fair
to pick on him for being a Mormon. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3330944</link><pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:33:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3330944</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3330944@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><br />Anybody see the latest propaganda film, called The Morman Candidate?</p>
<p>2016 also had a lot of propaganda in it - but it least it focused on political and social views versus someone's religion.  Wonder how much blowback the Dems'll get from that one....</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3326606</link><pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2012 07:20:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3326606</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3326606@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I'm disgusted by the whole thing but I haven't yet figured out what role (if
any) Obama has, or will have, in it.  All I know is that Chicago is among
the nastiest and most corrupt political scenes in the country, and I don't
trust politicians that come from there.  :) 
  
 (And ya know it's true because Chris "Tingles" Matthews told us that the
word "Chicago" is racist.) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3325824</link><pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2012 16:46:28 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3325824</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3325824@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Do you believe in the "pre-conspiracy" that the Chicago teacher's strike was planned?  It will go on for a while and Obama will 
step in and "solve" the problems between Emanual and the unions, both of which are friends with Obama.  When Obama "solves" the 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3325644</link><pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2012 13:18:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3325644</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3325644@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 The latest theory going around the punditsphere is that last week's muslim
attacks on embassies, and the botched responses from both Barack Osama and
Hitlery Clinton, are quite deliberate in their timing. 
  
 As it is theorized, the goal is to engage the United States in a full scale
war by mid to late October.  The badguys know that the US simply does not
ever change presidents during a war, and they know that the current occupant
of the White House is the most muslim-friendly guy they're going to see in
a long time (whether he's actually one of them himself is a separate discussion;
I of course believe that he is but that's beside the point).  And they know
there's a good chance that Romney would actually take some decisive action
were he to take the reins. 
  
 Barry O is of course more than happy to seize upon any opportunity to hold
on to power, even if it means thousands of Americans
will die because of it. 
  
  
 That's the theory, anyway.  It's an interesting one, even if merely brought
to attention as a thought experiment. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3323766</link><pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:38:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3323766</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3323766@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3323763</link><pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:35:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3323763</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3323763@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3323762</link><pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:32:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3323762</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3323762@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > It means drawing down the military, not to a point where we are 
 > indefensible, but to a point where we are no longer able to be the 
 > world's justice police.
 
That doesn't sound like a bad thing. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3323551</link><pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 14:11:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3323551</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3323551@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Ok, it's $16,055,182,700,988.90 as of 12 Sep 2012 at 06:10:51 PM GMT if you
want to be exact about it. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3323441</link><pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:56:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3323441</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3323441@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >$16,000,000,000,000 credit card bill in any meaningful way, requires   
  
 Bwahaha, you forgot to mention the "and zero cents" 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3321662</link><pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2012 12:01:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3321662</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3321662@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I was having a conversation with some folks on Google+ about this. 
  
 The real problem is that the mega-deep spending cuts required to get the
government's finances under control would be political suicide for whomever
performed those cuts. 
  
 Ironically -- or perhaps it would be more appropriate to say *iconically*
-- the national debt passed $16 trillion on the opening day of the Democratic
National Convention. 
  
 Getting the budget balanced, and starting to chip away at that $16,000,000,000,000
credit card bill in any meaningful way, requires tightening our belts in a
way with which no one is comfortable.  It's political suicide for whomever
does it because it requires slashing entitlements, which takes away the votes
of whomever was getting those entitlements. 
  
 It means that people who have already paid in big money aren't going to be
eligible for social security and medicare,
at least not until they are truly elderly.  Those votes are gone. 
  
 It means that welfare programs are going to be stripped down to their bare
minimum.  Those votes are gone. 
  
 It means passing laws banning the existence of public sector unions.  Those
votes are gone. 
  
 It means drawing down the military, not to a point where we are indefensible,
but to a point where we are no longer able to be the world's justice police.
 Those votes are gone. 
  
  
 We are headed off a cliff.  The only difference between democrats and conservatives
is that conservatives want to take our foot off the gas pedal.  Neither party
is willing to slam on the brakes and turn around. 
  
 I'm voting for Paul Ryan and his running mate.  His plan isn't enough but
it's the only one so far that's even attempted to make sense. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3320906</link><pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2012 11:49:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3320906</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3320906@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3320905</link><pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2012 11:42:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3320905</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3320905@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA["[I]f sequestration comes to pass, Barack Obama will have to make do 
with a defence budget roughly equivalent (in real terms) to George 
Bush's outlay for 2007. That budget surpasses average annual military 
spending during the cold war... Zealous fiscal hawks, like Ron Paul, 
would cut the military, but they are largely ignored by the rest of the 
party. The situation is perhaps worse on the left."

The Economist - Defense Spending: Who Will Make The Case for Serious 
Cuts?

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3315319</link><pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2012 21:41:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3315319</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3315319@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3312363</link><pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2012 15:54:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3312363</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3312363@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3312357</link><pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2012 15:02:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3312357</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3312357@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Lobby> ^]

telnet> mode character

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3312340</link><pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2012 13:37:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3312340</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3312340@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[This is what I get:

=====================================
 <L>ogin <G>oto <U>ngoto <H>elp
 Lobby> l
 Login  
 Enter  password (just carriage return if new) 
  : 


  No record: Enter as new user? (Y/N): 
  No record: Enter as new user? (Y/N): y
 y

 Enter screen width in columns 
  : 
 
 Abort account creation? (Y/N): 
 Abort account creation? (Y/N): y
 y 
  
 <L>ogin <G>oto <U>ngoto <H>elp
 Lobby> 
  ? (Type '?' for menu) 
  
 
 <L>ogin <G>oto <U>ngoto <H>elp
 Lobby> tq
 Terminate Quit-also 
  
 confirm? (Y/N): 
 
 confirm? (Y/N): 
 confirm? (Y/N): y
 y
 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3312336</link><pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2012 13:34:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3312336</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3312336@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I don't know what the citadel86 convo is doing in this room but I tried hue's site.  I think I was having trouble with an echo character but I 
am not sure.  I couldn't solve the problem.  I tried ESCmode charachter but that didn't seem to work.  The remote would repeat each line so I 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3312219</link><pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2012 11:06:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3312219</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3312219@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>remember that redneck which built a bonker and killed all his familiy and himself?</p>
<p>if you do similar in swizzerland, you might die aged 80 and found eventually weeks after your death because of people remembering you didn't show up for several months now:</p>
<p>http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/schweiz-einsiedler-hortete-sprengstoff-in-illegaler-waldbehausung-a-851201.html</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3312211</link><pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2012 10:31:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3312211</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3312211@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Hue, Jr. must be feeling nostalgic, then. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3311646</link><pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:57:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3311646</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3311646@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Had to look up the address.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3311633</link><pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:02:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3311633</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3311633@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3311631</link><pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:59:35 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3311631</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3311631@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I guess this is far more "real" then your web5.0 buzzword-featuritis-thingabob!!111</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3311629</link><pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:47:35 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3311629</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3311629@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I remember when Ultravox put up a Citadel/UX system in Minnesota, that was
about 8-10 years ago if I remember correctly.  The whole group showed up,
and they were all congratulating Hue on "porting Citadel to unix."  :| 
  
 Anyway, a couple of months ago, Hue decided to put Test System back up. 
It's running the old Citadel-86 code in a DOS emulator with a telnet-modem
emulator.  Only one user can be on at a time.  And as expected the whole group
showed up. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3311596</link><pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 12:22:45 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3311596</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3311596@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  > people still think Hue Jr. is some sort of minor deity. 

Well he is colorful.
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3311586</link><pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 11:56:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3311586</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3311586@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Nah, this is actually the first Citadel I've ever really called on a somewhat regular (though still mostly irregular) basis.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3311570</link><pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 10:48:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3311570</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3311570@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[If I tell you, will you leave us and go there instead?  :'( 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3311020</link><pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 00:30:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3311020</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3311020@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Yeah, but I think most want to do nothing more than briefly reminisce.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3310891</link><pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2012 17:15:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3310891</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3310891@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Ahff: you'd think that someone could set up an actual BBS in the area to get
the old crowd back together.  That happened in Minnesota.  Those people still
think Hue Jr. is some sort of minor deity. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3310253</link><pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 19:38:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3310253</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3310253@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>pudding and pie, too</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3310196</link><pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 14:01:19 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3310196</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3310196@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 orgy porgy. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3309964</link><pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 10:41:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3309964</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3309964@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Me thinks the same, although someone I know created a facebook group for BBSers local to my area, and the orgy of reminiscence that followed was 
quite a lot of fun.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3309945</link><pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 08:48:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3309945</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3309945@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>IG thinks Facebook is a colossal waste of time, energy, and brain power.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3308848</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 20:09:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3308848</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3308848@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Actually pretty much any sentence containing the word "Facebook" is invalid.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3308726</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 18:41:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3308726</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3308726@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > ERSKINE BOWLES IS A WINGNUT!!! OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!1   
  
 You just cited an independent director of Facebook; your argument is invalid.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300728</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2012 17:41:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300728</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300728@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Hey, believe it or not I've actually had people cite Mother Jones   
 >expecting me to not laugh in their face.   
  
 In Soviet Russia, messenger shoot YOU!!1 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300724</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2012 17:23:19 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300724</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300724@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Is a Moonbat the same as a Mooninite?  The same Mooninites that scared the
crap out of Boston?  "On the moon, Meatwad, we have advanced beyond rules
and manners" 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300715</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2012 16:23:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300715</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300715@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >"Think Progress".... really?  
  
 Hey, believe it or not I've actually had people cite Mother Jones expecting
me to not laugh in their face. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300690</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2012 15:41:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300690</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300690@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 And choose life. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300672</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2012 14:21:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300672</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300672@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300657</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2012 13:30:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300657</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300657@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I don't think he's a wingnut. I just think he obviously didn't bother to
read the budget he was praising. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300654</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2012 13:05:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300654</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300654@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Well, in the interest of tit-for-tat, here's Clinton's chief of staff Erskine
Bowles saying that "This guy [Ryan] is amazing ... he his honest, he is straightforward,
he is sincere.  And the budget that he came forward with is just like Paul
Ryan.  It is a semsible, straightforward, serious budget" 
  
 [ http://goo.gl/1bwYN ] 
  
 ERSKINE BOWLES IS A WINGNUT!!! OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!1 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300639</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2012 12:04:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300639</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300639@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 Why waste breath bashing Paul Ryan when the GOP will do it for you?   
    
 Reagan Budget Adviser Blasts Paul Ryans Budget As An"Empty Fairy Tale":
  
    
 http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/08/14/687561/reagan-ryan-budget-fairy-tale/
  
  
  
 DAVID STOCKMAN IS A MOONBAT!!! OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!1 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300192</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2012 18:12:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300192</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300192@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >I daresay he's more useful in Congress 
 >than he would be in the office of the vice president. 
 

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300176</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2012 17:20:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300176</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300176@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I will stop short of calling you a liar, but we've already established that
I believe that we are already far on the right side of the peak of the Laffer
curve and you don't agree with that. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300175</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2012 17:08:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300175</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300175@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA["To the extent Republicans have a consistent platform, it consists of unrealistic claims about how tax cuts will raise revenue and stimulate economic growth."

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300174</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2012 17:01:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300174</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300174@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Not disingenuous at all, since I happen to believe your #1 is a steaming
pile of bullshit. I may be wrong, but if you call me a liar I call you an
asshole. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300173</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:56:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300173</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300173@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[You're leaving out some important truths that make your claim disingenuous:

  
 1. When tax *rates* are lower, tax *revenues* are higher.  (The "budget surplus"
liberals erroneously credit to Clinton didn't happen until after Newt Gingrich
showed up and started slashing taxes.  Isn't it funny how "tax cuts for the
rich" put more money in *everyone's* pocket?) 
  
 2. As I've mentioned before, every $1 in new taxation results in $1.17 of
new spending.  The government can't be trusted to use new taxes to pay down
the debt. 
  
 3. You still haven't cited a budget that cuts more spending than Paul Ryan's
after being asked twice; I have to conclude at this point that you don't have
an answer to that one. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300172</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:56:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300172</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300172@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Here's respected pragmatic libertarian Tyler Cowen on the Ryan budget: "Over
a ten-year time horizon, the Ryan plan increases the debt rather than decreasing
it." 
  
 http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2011/04/the-paul-ryan-budget-plan.html
 
  
 When even Tyler Cowen sees it this way, it is clear that the Ryan apologists
are simply playing partisan politics. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300170</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:46:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300170</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300170@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 That leaves you with a budget that is deficit-neutral at best; slash spending,
slash revenue by a similar amount and you leave us squarely in the same long-run
budget mess that we started out in. The Ryan budget is, prima facie, not about
deficits; it's about ideology.  
  
 Also, he's either a rat or a scarecrow, perhaps both. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300168</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:38:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300168</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300168@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[The Ryan budget spends $5.3 trillion less than Obama's budget over the next
ten years.  Again, who has proposed a budget that cuts more?  It is a foregone
conclusion that the only thing that can save us from economic collapse is
*massive* spending cuts, so it follows that more cuts equals better budget.
 So, who proposed bigger cuts than Paul Ryan? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300062</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2012 15:20:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300062</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300062@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 PAUL RYAN IS EITHER A PATSY OR AN INSIDER TRADER; WE ARE NOT SURE WHICH,
BUT ARE LEANING TOWARDS THE FORMER. THERE IS NO MIDDLE GROUND IN WHICH HE
IS NEITHER PATSY NOR INSIDER TRADER. 
  
 http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2012/08/reflections-on-paul-ryans-transactions-in-individual-bank-stocks-in-2008.html

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300061</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2012 15:18:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300061</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300061@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 The Ryan budget would increase the deficit by nearly 5 trillion - 5 trillion
is the size of the mystery meat in his budget; 5 trillion is the objective
gap between his fantasy (claims of revenue-neutral-ness) and reality (in which
there is nowhere near enough revene available from loophole closures to offset
the mystery meat.) 
  
 I support the Cookie Monster Budget. It's objectvely better than this Ryan
claptrap. Cookies for all. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3300047</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2012 14:19:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3300047</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3300047@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Ok then, whose budget proposal do you consider more likely to actually cut
the deficit without skyrocketing taxes?  The Ryan budget, while not perfect,
was the most sensible one proposed. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3299698</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2012 10:42:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3299698</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3299698@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >than their running mate.  In a sea of politicians who only give lip   
 >service to cutting the deficit, Ryan was the only one who actually   
  
 In a sea of politicians giving lip service to cutting the deficit, Ryan is
giving the deficit a blow-job. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3299697</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2012 10:38:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3299697</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3299697@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Romney is the opposite or Rand, he loves big government just as much as
Obama. I doubt Romney read Rand or Friedman.  
  
 Pay attention! The topic was Paul Ryan. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3299399</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2012 00:17:28 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3299399</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3299399@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Great, once again we have a veep candidate who is far more desirable than
their running mate.  In a sea of politicians who only give lip service to
cutting the deficit, Ryan was the only one who actually proposed something
sensible.  I daresay he's more useful in Congress than he would be in the
office of the vice president. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3299368</link><pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2012 19:14:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3299368</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3299368@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >> Nope, Randroid. He requires all his office monkeys to read Ayn Rand. 

Romney is the opposite or Rand, he loves big government just as much as Obama. I doubt Romney read Rand or Friedman.

  
 >> WTF is a moonbat? Is that anything like a Moondog? 
 
It is the opposite of Wingnut.
http://moonbattery.com/

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3299081</link><pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 21:01:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3299081</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3299081@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Nope, Randroid. He requires all his office monkeys to read Ayn Rand. Poor
them, but I suppose they signed up for it. 
  
 WTF is a moonbat? Is that anything like a Moondog? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moondog

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3299078</link><pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 20:45:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3299078</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3299078@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > ROMNEY ANOINTS GODLESS RANDROID PAUL RYAN SECOND IN LINE TO OVAL 
 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3299044</link><pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 11:09:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3299044</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3299044@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 ROMNEY ANOINTS GODLESS RANDROID PAUL RYAN SECOND IN LINE TO OVAL OFFICE THRONE
(the crapper, that is) 
  
 http://goo.gl/VHqbM 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3298962</link><pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 23:20:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3298962</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3298962@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Sorry, I can't take an article seriously if it contains the phrase "brilliant
hard hitting journalist for Mother Jones" 
  
 I also find it interesting that the worst thing any of the left wing moonbats
can say about Mitt Romney is that he worked at Bain Capital.  So ... he was
a businessman who made a lot of money?  That gives him a record cleaner than
99% of the politicians out there.  Compared to the long record of lying cheating
and stealing that Baraq Osama gets away with only because the liberal media
refuses to report it, Romney is practically a saint. 
  
 I mean come on, the guy was the governor of a state, and all the leftoids
can manage to say is bain bain bain bain bain.  Sounds like they're implicitly
agreeing that when you put the guy in charge of a government he does a great
job. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3298946</link><pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:11:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3298946</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3298946@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Documented proof ob Romney....
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3298923</link><pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 17:48:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3298923</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3298923@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >That is a lie, everyone knows Romney eats aborted fetuses.  
  
 Lies, damned lies, and politics. :) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3298922</link><pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 17:47:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3298922</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3298922@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3298921</link><pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 17:45:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3298921</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3298921@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 MITT ROMNEY MADE 50 MILLION DOLLARS INCINERATING ABORTED FETUSES 
  
 http://www.nowpublic.com/health/mitt-romney-s-abortion-business-made-him-50m

  
 MITT ROMNEY MADE 50 MILLION DOLLARS INCINERATING ABORTED FETUSES 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3298711</link><pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 13:01:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3298711</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3298711@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Not the first time, and certainly won't be the last. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3298459</link><pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 16:50:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3298459</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3298459@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3298198</link><pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 11:16:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3298198</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3298198@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Ann Coulter says the Romney campaign must fire Romney! 
  
 http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/ann-coulter-wants-romney-spokesperson-fired-over-romneycare

  
 I am laughing my ass off here... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3298186</link><pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 09:27:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3298186</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3298186@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ 
 Oh my, oh my, the world is a scary, bad place. Romney's not even in office (yet) (hopefully never) and he's already committing Obamaesque foreign policy blunders.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3296018</link><pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:58:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3296018</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3296018@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Too Big to Jail

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3295879</link><pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 20:36:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3295879</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3295879@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Oh. I will say one more thing. Considering that I'm paying much less for better service than most people with normal HMOs in the US have, I really couldn't care less who I'm subsidizing.</p>
<p>Especially when you consider that you're subsidizing anyone on Medicare anyway.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3295873</link><pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 19:21:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3295873</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3295873@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Couple things -</p>
<p>1. The Israeli system allows you to choose from 4 different health care 'funds' which means there is competition.</p>
<p>2. There's no way that America's <span id="GRmark_fa032d71526cb9db9dbf664b56bde359039f56f5_healthcare:0" class="GRcorrect">healthcare</span> could use the same model successfully because:</p>
<p>a. The per capita number of doctors here is MUCH higher.</p>
<p>b. Doctor's salaries are MUCH lower. A good doctor here doesn't make $100K/year. Department heads might make that much. Residents make less than $10/hour. (On the other hand, they have little student debt, since college/<span id="GRmark_2e6727e842bbce66be3469b56728fe3662af6232_med:0" class="GRcorrect">med</span> school is about $4K/year, and a lot of doctors get part of their education paid for by the army)</p>
<p>c. Israel has a population of 8 million people. These things don't scale. Maybe state-by-state, but nationwide, no way.</p>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3295865</link><pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:35:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3295865</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3295865@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA["Single payer" is just a polite way of saying socialized medicine.  So, the
care itself isn't owned by the State.  Big deal.  The State will force the
medical community to comply to its wishes if it accepts money, just as they
do with Medicaid and Medicare.         
      
      
 You can call it some fancy name like Single Payer, or universal health care,
national health insurance, etc.  It doesn't matter.  It's all a form of government
control over our spending and health care.     
    
    
 Just wait until we see this happening here:   
  
  
 http://tinyurl.com/d84valn 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3295825</link><pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 14:21:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3295825</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3295825@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[The title of the article is somewhat disingenuous.  Mr. Romney is impressed
by Israel's ability to keep the cost of health care (relative to GDP) contained
at 8 percent.   The title of the article implies that he is gushing over the
fact that it is a single-payer system. 
  
 Although as I've mentioned before, a single-payer system would still be better
than the cartel-based system we currently have, and far better than obamacare.
 But not as good as complete deregulation. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3295820</link><pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 13:43:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3295820</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3295820@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Mr. Romney comes out in favor of a single-payer Israeli style health system:

  
 http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/romney-praises-israels-socialized-health-care-sys

  
 I doubt that our insurance industry will allow themselves to simply be closed
out of their business. The lawsuits would certainly go to the Supreme court
if the lobbyists don't kill it DOA. So this is mostly just a talking point...

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3295801</link><pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 11:54:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3295801</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3295801@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Millions of little girls whose Easy Bake Ovens now produce mercury poisoning
instead of yummy treats will agree about that :) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3295799</link><pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 11:46:35 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3295799</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3295799@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Hey, man, light bulb freedom of choice is very important! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3295745</link><pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 08:47:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3295745</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3295745@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3295447</link><pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2012 22:02:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3295447</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3295447@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[If there's anything to be fed up with, it's the tendency of the Tea Party
favorites who were elected in 2010 being pressured by Boner et al to be less
Tea Party and more RINO-like.  Not all of them, of course.  You can tell which
ones are holding fast to their conservative/libertarian principles by how
much the left hates/trashes them (case in point: Michelle Bachmann). 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3295436</link><pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2012 19:38:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3295436</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3295436@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 s/severaly/severely/ 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3295435</link><pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2012 19:37:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3295435</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3295435@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > I still consider myself a (small l) libertarian but I've given up on  

 >the Libertarian Party.  Their complete lack of pragmatism continues to 
 
 >make them a non-starter.  It seems that libertarian ideals are more   
 >pragmatically advanced through the Tea Party.   
  
 Mainline Libertarians are severaly fed up with the Tea Party. They're living
in a world where Ron Paul founded the Tea Party which was subsequently hijacked
by the usual suspects. That world, of course, is not the real world. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3295432</link><pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2012 19:31:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3295432</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3295432@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >>>> Better off with Jimmy McMillan, who, strangely, is running as a Republican.
  
 >  
 >Why is that Strange?  
  
 I admit I don't know much of his "platform." The whole rent/price-fixing
thing seems a little un-conservative, though. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3294138</link><pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2012 12:01:57 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3294138</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3294138@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Gary Johnson is the Libertarian Party's presidential candidate this year.
 I've been voting LP my entire adult life but this guy completely turns me
off.  He wants to eviscerate the military, at a time when security threats
are high: Russia is making a comeback, Red China is on the rise, and the Muslim
Brotherhood is likely to begin a bloodbath.  This isn't the time to turn our
military into a declawed pussycat. 
  
 I still consider myself a (small l) libertarian but I've given up on the
Libertarian Party.  Their complete lack of pragmatism continues to make them
a non-starter.  It seems that libertarian ideals are more pragmatically advanced
through the Tea Party. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3294057</link><pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2012 06:23:57 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3294057</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3294057@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[>>>~ Jul 26 2012 10:24pm from LoanShark @uncnsrd 
>>>    Mitt Romney? The junk bond kingpin? 
  
Deep inside you are conservative.


>>> Better off with Jimmy McMillan, who, strangely, is running as a Republican. 

Why is that Strange?

 



>>>~ Jul 27 2012 5:54am from triLcat @uncnsrd 
>>>    http://www.isidewith.com/results/37876228 
>>>    Who the heck is Gary Johnson? 

I am sure you already looked him up, but it is sad how little information is out there about him.  The founder of "The Daily Caller" who 
claims to be a libertarian doesn't mention him on the site, however the site has turned into a site supporting big government republicans.
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3294048</link><pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2012 05:54:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3294048</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3294048@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>http://www.isidewith.com/results/37876228 <br />Who the heck is Gary Johnson? </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3293998</link><pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 22:24:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3293998</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3293998@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Mitt Romney? The junk bond kingpin? 
  
 Better off with Jimmy McMillan, who, strangely, is running as a Republican.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3293955</link><pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 15:41:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3293955</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3293955@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><a href="http://www.isidewith.com/results/37330373">http://www.isidewith.com/results/37330373</a></p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3293598</link><pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 10:34:03 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3293598</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3293598@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I took the quiz, I dislike quizzes like that because sometimes the questions are so open ended or not asked correctly.

>> "Is Global Warming a threat to the environment?"

I believe climate change affects the environment, but I don't think it is all man made.


>> Do you believe the theory of Evolution?
It is a theory, I think the question could be better worded, "agree" instead of believe.

There were two drug/marijuana related questions.  I believe the war on drug as cost billions with no results, it is a failure.  Do I think 
legalizing all illegal drugs will solve all problems?  No.  I do believe marijuana is a no more of a dangerous drug than alcohol or 
caffine. 


My result:
 95% - Gary Johnson on foreign policy, economic, domestic policy, healthcare, science, and social issues. 
 95% - Ron Paul on foreign policy, economic, domestic policy, healthcare, immigration, science, and social
issues. 
 82% - Virgil Goode on foreign policy, economic, domestic policy, immigration, and healthcare issues. 
 78% - on domestic policy, economic, immigration, and healthcare issues. 
 56% - Barack Obama on social and science issues. 
 72% - New York Voters on economic and social issues.
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3293590</link><pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 10:17:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3293590</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3293590@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[
The text client didn't read the url correctly, it is http://www.isidewith.com/ for those too last to remove the extra characters at the end 
of the link after the 404 error.

Romney is all over the place on many issues, to me he is the John Kerry of the republican party.  I might write in "uncensored BBS" for 
president.
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3293584</link><pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 09:59:36 +0500</pubDate><title>&quot;The Quiz&quot;</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3293584@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>No, this isn't another advertisement for the Nolan chart.  :)   I still consider myself a libertarian but I'm completely fed up with the Libertarian Party's complete lack of pragmatism.  Anyway, it's that time of the decade again here in the US, where we are given the illusion of participation in our government by choosing which moron gets to sit in the white house for the next four years.  Here's a site that has what appears to be an objective quiz that tells you which of the candidates most matches your worldview.</p>
<p>[ <a href="http://www.isidewith.com/">http://www.isidewith.com/</a> ]</p>
<p>Here are my own results.  They agree with what I already suspected: either the LP is getting even further out of touch, or I am personally sliding to the right, or perhaps a bit of both.</p>
<h2 style="font-size: 2em; line-height: 1.15em; color: #b6d9f2; text-shadow: #00204d -1px -1px 0px; font-weight: normal; padding: 19px 66px 4px; margin: 0px 0px 10px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Merriweather, Times, serif; background-color: #1a3966;">Candidates you side with...</h2>
<div class="ws" style="color: #334866; text-shadow: #ffffff 1px 1px 0px; margin: 0px 38px 10px; box-shadow: #264b80 0px 3px 5px; padding-bottom: 2px; background-image: url('http://dkoxx3juo6u9l.cloudfront.net/_styles/2/bg_list_glow.svgz'); background-color: #e6eff7; border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Merriweather, Times, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 23px; background-position: 50% -1px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat;">
<div class="c first m_c" style="border: none !important; padding-bottom: 7px; background-image: url('http://dkoxx3juo6u9l.cloudfront.net/_styles/2/bg_list_glow.svgz'); position: relative; border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px; padding-top: 3px; cursor: pointer; background-position: 50% -1px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat;">
<p class="amount" style="padding: 21px 21px 0px 90px; margin: 0px; font-size: 35px; font-weight: bold; float: right; position: absolute; top: 2%; right: 10px;">93%</p>
<img style="position: absolute; top: 7px; left: 15px;" src="http://d3f9541h31a4it.cloudfront.net/_imgs/candidates/sm/962427.png" alt="Mitt Romney" />
<h5 style="padding: 13px 26px 0px 90px; margin: 3px 5px; font-weight: normal; font-size: 25px; text-transform: capitalize; border: none;">Mitt Romney</h5>
<p class="details" style="color: #637a99; line-height: 1.35em; padding-top: 0px !important; padding-bottom: 5px !important; margin: 3px 5px; padding-right: 26px; padding-left: 90px;">on economic, immigration, domestic policy, healthcare, social, and science issues. </p>
</div>
<div class="c m_c" style="padding-bottom: 7px; background-image: url('http://dkoxx3juo6u9l.cloudfront.net/_styles/2/bg_list_glow.svgz'); position: relative; border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px; padding-top: 3px; cursor: pointer; background-position: 50% 0px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat;">
<p class="amount" style="padding: 21px 21px 0px 90px; margin: 0px; font-size: 35px; font-weight: bold; float: right; position: absolute; top: 2%; right: 10px;">90%</p>
<img style="position: absolute; top: 7px; left: 15px;" src="http://d3f9541h31a4it.cloudfront.net/_imgs/candidates/sm/962418.png" alt="Ron Paul" />
<h5 style="padding: 13px 26px 0px 90px; margin: 3px 5px; font-weight: normal; font-size: 25px; text-transform: capitalize;">Ron Paul</h5>
<p class="details" style="color: #637a99; line-height: 1.35em; padding-top: 0px !important; padding-bottom: 5px !important; margin: 3px 5px; padding-right: 26px; padding-left: 90px;">on immigration, economic, domestic policy, foreign policy, and healthcare issues. </p>
</div>
<div class="c" style="padding-bottom: 7px; background-image: url('http://dkoxx3juo6u9l.cloudfront.net/_styles/2/bg_list_glow.svgz'); position: relative; border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px; padding-top: 3px; cursor: pointer; background-position: 50% 0px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat;">
<p class="amount" style="padding: 21px 21px 0px 90px; margin: 0px; font-size: 35px; font-weight: bold; float: right; position: absolute; top: 2%; right: 10px;">79%</p>
<img style="position: absolute; top: 7px; left: 15px;" src="http://d3f9541h31a4it.cloudfront.net/_imgs/candidates/sm/962406.png" alt="Gary Johnson" />
<h5 style="padding: 13px 26px 0px 90px; margin: 3px 5px; font-weight: normal; font-size: 25px; text-transform: capitalize;">Gary Johnson</h5>
<p class="details" style="color: #637a99; line-height: 1.35em; padding-top: 0px !important; padding-bottom: 5px !important; margin: 3px 5px; padding-right: 26px; padding-left: 90px;">on economic, domestic policy, foreign policy, and healthcare issues. </p>
</div>
<div class="c" style="padding-bottom: 7px; background-image: url('http://dkoxx3juo6u9l.cloudfront.net/_styles/2/bg_list_glow.svgz'); position: relative; border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px; padding-top: 3px; cursor: pointer; background-position: 50% 0px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat;">
<p class="amount" style="padding: 21px 21px 0px 90px; margin: 0px; font-size: 35px; font-weight: bold; float: right; position: absolute; top: 2%; right: 10px;">75%</p>
<img style="position: absolute; top: 7px; left: 15px;" src="http://d3f9541h31a4it.cloudfront.net/_imgs/candidates/sm/7750797.png" alt="Virgil Goode" />
<h5 style="padding: 13px 26px 0px 90px; margin: 3px 5px; font-weight: normal; font-size: 25px; text-transform: capitalize;">Virgil Goode</h5>
<p class="details" style="color: #637a99; line-height: 1.35em; padding-top: 0px !important; padding-bottom: 5px !important; margin: 3px 5px; padding-right: 26px; padding-left: 90px;">on immigration, domestic policy, foreign policy, and social issues. </p>
</div>
<div class="c" style="padding-bottom: 7px; background-image: url('http://dkoxx3juo6u9l.cloudfront.net/_styles/2/bg_list_glow.svgz'); position: relative; border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px; padding-top: 3px; cursor: pointer; background-position: 50% 0px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat;">
<p class="amount" style="padding: 21px 21px 0px 90px; margin: 0px; font-size: 35px; font-weight: bold; float: right; position: absolute; top: 2%; right: 10px;">67%</p>
<img style="position: absolute; top: 7px; left: 15px;" src="http://d3f9541h31a4it.cloudfront.net/_imgs/candidates/sm/962415.png" alt="Jimmy McMillan" />
<h5 style="padding: 13px 26px 0px 90px; margin: 3px 5px; font-weight: normal; font-size: 25px; text-transform: capitalize;">Jimmy McMillan</h5>
<p class="details" style="color: #637a99; line-height: 1.35em; padding-top: 0px !important; padding-bottom: 5px !important; margin: 3px 5px; padding-right: 26px; padding-left: 90px;">on economic, immigration, and domestic policy issues. </p>
</div>
<div class="c m_c" style="padding-bottom: 7px; background-image: url('http://dkoxx3juo6u9l.cloudfront.net/_styles/2/bg_list_glow.svgz'); position: relative; border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px; padding-top: 3px; cursor: pointer; background-position: 50% 0px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat;">
<p class="amount" style="padding: 21px 21px 0px 90px; margin: 0px; font-size: 35px; font-weight: bold; float: right; position: absolute; top: 2%; right: 10px;">17%</p>
<img style="position: absolute; top: 7px; left: 15px;" src="http://d3f9541h31a4it.cloudfront.net/_imgs/candidates/sm/962388.png" alt="Barack Obama" />
<h5 style="padding: 13px 26px 0px 90px; margin: 3px 5px; font-weight: normal; font-size: 25px; text-transform: capitalize;">Barack Obama</h5>
<p class="details" style="color: #637a99; line-height: 1.35em; padding-top: 0px !important; padding-bottom: 5px !important; margin: 3px 5px; padding-right: 26px; padding-left: 90px;">no major issues. </p>
</div>
<div class="c" style="padding-bottom: 7px; background-image: url('http://dkoxx3juo6u9l.cloudfront.net/_styles/2/bg_list_glow.svgz'); position: relative; border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px; padding-top: 3px; cursor: pointer; background-position: 50% 0px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat;">
<p class="amount" style="padding: 21px 21px 0px 90px; margin: 0px; font-size: 35px; font-weight: bold; float: right; position: absolute; top: 2%; right: 10px;">7%</p>
<img style="position: absolute; top: 7px; left: 15px;" src="http://d3f9541h31a4it.cloudfront.net/_imgs/candidates/sm/6600944.png" alt="Jill Stein" />
<h5 style="padding: 13px 26px 0px 90px; margin: 3px 5px; font-weight: normal; font-size: 25px; text-transform: capitalize;">Jill Stein</h5>
<p class="details" style="color: #637a99; line-height: 1.35em; padding-top: 0px !important; padding-bottom: 5px !important; margin: 3px 5px; padding-right: 26px; padding-left: 90px;">no major issues. </p>
</div>
<div class="c" style="padding-bottom: 7px; background-image: url('http://dkoxx3juo6u9l.cloudfront.net/_styles/2/bg_list_glow.svgz'); position: relative; border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px; padding-top: 3px; cursor: pointer; background-position: 50% 0px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat;">
<p class="amount" style="padding: 21px 21px 0px 90px; margin: 0px; font-size: 35px; font-weight: bold; float: right; position: absolute; top: 2%; right: 10px;">6%</p>
<img style="position: absolute; top: 7px; left: 15px;" src="http://d3f9541h31a4it.cloudfront.net/_imgs/candidates/sm/10072807.png" alt="Stewart Alexander" />
<h5 style="padding: 13px 26px 0px 90px; margin: 3px 5px; font-weight: normal; font-size: 25px; text-transform: capitalize;">Stewart Alexander</h5>
<p class="details" style="color: #637a99; line-height: 1.35em; padding-top: 0px !important; padding-bottom: 5px !important; margin: 3px 5px; padding-right: 26px; padding-left: 90px;">on foreign policy issues. </p>
</div>
<div class="c m_c" style="padding-bottom: 7px; background-image: url('http://dkoxx3juo6u9l.cloudfront.net/_styles/2/bg_list_glow.svgz'); position: relative; border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px; padding-top: 3px; cursor: pointer; background-position: 50% 0px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat;">
<p class="amount" style="padding: 21px 21px 0px 90px; margin: 0px; font-size: 35px; font-weight: bold; float: right; position: absolute; top: 2%; right: 10px;">39%</p>
<img style="position: absolute; top: 7px; left: 15px;" src="http://d3f9541h31a4it.cloudfront.net/_imgs/aggregates/sm/9333330.png" alt="" />
<h5 style="padding: 13px 26px 0px 90px; margin: 3px 5px; font-weight: normal; font-size: 25px; text-transform: capitalize;">New Jersey Voters</h5>
<p class="details" style="color: #637a99; line-height: 1.35em; padding-top: 0px !important; padding-bottom: 5px !important; margin: 3px 5px; padding-right: 26px; padding-left: 90px;">no major issues.</p>
</div>
<div class="c m_c" style="padding-bottom: 7px; background-image: url('http://dkoxx3juo6u9l.cloudfront.net/_styles/2/bg_list_glow.svgz'); position: relative; border-top-left-radius: 3px; border-top-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-right-radius: 3px; border-bottom-left-radius: 3px; padding-top: 3px; cursor: pointer; background-position: 50% 0px; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat;">
<p class="amount" style="padding: 21px 21px 0px 90px; margin: 0px; font-size: 35px; font-weight: bold; float: right; position: absolute; top: 2%; right: 10px;">69%</p>
</div>
</div>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3289968</link><pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:01:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3289968</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3289968@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Well, they could Whig out. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3289955</link><pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:21:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3289955</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3289955@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Heh... 'wig out'... Certainly, if this happened in the UK.  Not so sure about
the United States. 
  
 *snicker* 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3289954</link><pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:20:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3289954</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3289954@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[My country, 'tis of thee,
Sweet land's timidity
Has us all bound;
Land where the TSA
Has kept us all afraid,
With politicians' aide
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3289731</link><pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:05:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3289731</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3289731@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3289572</link><pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2012 14:16:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3289572</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3289572@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Based on recent history it would probably turn into a needlessly partisan
battle.  I'm sure some folks would call it a racist law, others would talk
about how we have a basic human right to speak French, there would be papers
about the irony of "lingua franca" being English, and when it finally got
to the courts, they'd end up ruling on something other than what the law was
originally written for. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3289468</link><pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:51:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3289468</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3289468@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3289464</link><pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:44:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3289464</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3289464@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Obviously, they'd wig out. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3289463</link><pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:43:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3289463</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3289463@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 It would never happen, but if someone introduced a federal law in the United
States of America, written in French, stating that all laws must be written
in English, how would Judges interpret it? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3280504</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2012 14:35:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3280504</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3280504@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>What'dya think you made the law, or something?</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3280284</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2012 11:51:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3280284</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3280284@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[But let's not forget that Hitler made the trains run on time.  YOU NEED TO
KEEP FIRMLY IN MIND ALL THE *GOOD* THINGS HITLER DID!!1 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3280224</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2012 09:05:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3280224</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3280224@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 *grin*. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3279861</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2012 13:46:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3279861</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3279861@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><em>All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?</em></p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3279720</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2012 11:09:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3279720</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3279720@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Where did you get the idea that ObamaCare has anything to do with providing
health care?  That may be one of the side effects, as poorly executed as it
may be, but the primary purpose of ObamaCare is to expand the reach of big
government. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3279427</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 Jul 2012 05:17:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3279427</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3279427@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>As someone who lives in a country with good socialized <span id="GRmark_547af5c0d4a783f395be41434a2503ab8302f187_healthcare:0" class="GRcorrect">healthcare</span>, I don't think socialized health care is necessarily a bad thing. On the other hand, I don't see how ObamaCare gives <span id="GRmark_9b82d1e102075711d0849e14ab12e7c6af17ef11_actual socialized health care:0" class="GRcorrect">actual socialized health care</span>. In a good system, everyone pays a reasonable amount b/c the systems aren't run on as high a profit margin. In ObamaCare, the middle class and up pays more. Only <span id="GRmark_6a0cb238e357f936b4c8b716603e3973d6b07227_the lowest:0" class="GRcorrect">the lowest</span> working class seems to benefit, as far as I can tell. </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3278868</link><pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 22:17:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3278868</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3278868@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[@zooer Yes, the Cloward-Piven strategy has been in play for some time now,
but as long as there's still some resistance they have to continue telling
lies such as "affordable health care" and "tax cuts for the rich" and other
such nonsense. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3278867</link><pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 22:16:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3278867</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3278867@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Phineas & Ferb 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3278780</link><pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 17:25:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3278780</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3278780@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > The problem is affordability.  They have done nothing to help reduce 
 >costs... only made it possible for insurance to continue to skyrocket. 
 

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3278766</link><pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 16:12:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3278766</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3278766@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Parliament & Funkadelic? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3278659</link><pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:27:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3278659</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3278659@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Why yes, yes it does. Any other pearls of wisdom? ;)   
  
 +1 for LS using P&F sentence structure.  Nicely done. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3278575</link><pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:18:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3278575</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3278575@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Well, my other argument regarding the bill is that it doesn't actually correct
the problem.  It delays it. 
  
 The problem is affordability.  They have done nothing to help reduce costs...
only made it possible for insurance to continue to skyrocket. 
  
 I'm glad my mythical (?) man in the woods may continue to live off the grid...
I didn't hear about that catch. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3278574</link><pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:14:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3278574</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3278574@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >If it is subsidized, that means someone is paying for it.   
  
 Why yes, yes it does. Any other pearls of wisdom? ;) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3278476</link><pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:00:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3278476</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3278476@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >with incomes up to 4x the poverty level will be subsidized (if they 
 

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3278468</link><pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 12:16:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3278468</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3278468@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Now, regardless of whether or not you can afford it, you are taxed in 
   
 >the United States.     
    
 This is a little bit inaccurate. If your insurance would cost more than 8%
of household income you are exempt from the penalty. So your guy living in
the woods not making any money can still do that... wherever he is...   
    
 Also: those with incomes up to 133% of the federal poverty line will be eligible
for Medicaid and thus will not pay the penalty; families with incomes up to
4x the poverty level will be subsidized (if they choose to buy insurance.)
  
    
 [ source: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0323/Obama-signs-health-care-bill-Who-won-t-be-covered
]   
  
  
 I am no fan of this law; I think the status quo was not such a bad place
to be (the uninsured would still receive basic care.) It's just not clear
to me whether this increases my costs (via increased demand and
rationing) or decreases my costs (via dealing with the freeloader problem
in a different way.) We'll see. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3278449</link><pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 10:51:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3278449</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3278449@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Meanwhile, the liberal hate machine is, predictably, attacking Romney 
 >for being a Mormon with the kind of hate-filled ferocity that they've 
 >always told us we're not allowed to use in a world of "diversity." 

Well that is the only thing they can go after him for.  He is essentially the John Kerry of the republican party.
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3278446</link><pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 10:48:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3278446</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3278446@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >its world wide, except USA and Canada. If I would go there, I need to
 
Canada has socialized medicine, that is why so many Canadians come down to the US for health care.  Why would your insurance have a problem 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3278376</link><pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 06:26:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3278376</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3278376@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>How do you think we socialist communist in europe/germany handle our enforced health insurances for the homeless? Do you think the companies send out predators to sniff around under bridges and in the woods, stalking the poor until they find them and then force them to work enough to pay their monthly health insurance fee?</p>
<p>No, only our national TV stations will resort to these measures, health insurances just obey to the normative power of facts and will only take in people who want to be insured.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3278348</link><pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 05:04:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3278348</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3278348@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>when I booked my health insurance for my trip to china they told me its world wide, except USA and Canada. If I would go there, I need to tell and pay 3 times as much, and it wouldn't last for a year but just 14 days.</p>
<p>I guess some things are simply cheaper to organize on a socialized way. Welcome to socialized health insurance.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3278245</link><pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 21:09:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3278245</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3278245@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[It's a pretty ridiculous piece of legislation, and they pulled every procedural
dirty trick in the book to get it passed ... but the Supreme Court did have
to look at it through the eyes of a court rather than through the eyes of
a lawmaker. 
  
 It is being argued by some that the court did the law's opponents a favor
by declaring that it is, without question, a tax.  That makes it the largest
tax increase in history, bar none. 
  
 The most interesting observation I've read today is here: [ http://goo.gl/YcBpg
]  
   
 Ulsterman believes that the ruling will re-energize the Tea Party, turning
2012 into another 2010.  He argues that there is now a second clear conservative
message, the first of course being the economy. 
  
 Meanwhile, the liberal hate machine is, predictably, attacking Romney for
being a Mormon with the kind of hate-filled ferocity that they've always told
us we're not allowed to use in a world of "diversity." 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3278149</link><pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 19:45:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3278149</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3278149@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Yeah. 
  
 The people who currently earn no wages will get double their income. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3278130</link><pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 17:50:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3278130</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3278130@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[YOU JUST HATE POOR PEOPLE!   (/sarc)

Don't worry we will all get huge raises to cover the increase in taxes and not have to worry about paying for health insurance because 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3278110</link><pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 16:48:47 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3278110</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3278110@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Until today, all taxes imposed by our government involved something other
than your existance. 
  
 You could safely live in the woods, unknown to anyone in the country, remain
a citizen of the United States, but not pay a dime in taxes (because you'd
earn no income, and pay nothing to anyone, just survive on foods you found
or grew yourself on public lands). 
  
 Now, regardless of whether or not you can afford it, you are taxed in the
United States. 
  
 We have lost our mind. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3276759</link><pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:49:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3276759</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3276759@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[All goes to the same place.
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3276754</link><pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:32:19 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3276754</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3276754@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I think I'll make a donation to the Romney campaign in Barack's name, just
to show him how much I care. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3276611</link><pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2012 08:11:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3276611</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3276611@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Ridiculous, but hilarious</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3276609</link><pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2012 08:04:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3276609</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3276609@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Obama wants your wedding, birthday, and graduation gifts.  What better way to show dear leader your love on your day?

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3276039</link><pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 10:52:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3276039</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3276039@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><br />Wonder if someday we'll look back on this day the same way we do the day that Hitler was elected....</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3275944</link><pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 10:32:07 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3275944</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3275944@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Quotes of the day: 
  
 "The Koran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader, jihad is our path
and death in the name of Allah is our goal." 
  
   -- new Egyptian president Mohammed Morsi 
  
 "We look forward to working together with President-elect Morsi and the government
he forms, on the basis of mutual respect, to advance the many shared interests
between Egypt and the United States." 
  
   -- USA president Barack Obama 
  
 Meanwhile, the mainstream media continues ignoring all this... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3270965</link><pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:06:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3270965</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3270965@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Once upon a time, there was this state called GDR, were the people felt oppressed quite a bit. They weren't really starving, they weren't really suffering from socialized health care or general lack of healthcare, there was 100% employment rate. The only bad thing you could say about the rulers was that they were a bit nosy and distrusting of their people. Oh and this whole Wall thing and the lack of free travel rights to most countries.</p>
<p>And now this state is gone, without a single shot fired. Lesson learned: Guns do not free people from oppression, people free people from oppression.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3260971</link><pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2012 19:20:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3260971</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3260971@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Well, we have certain cultural concerns that prevent us from getting  

 >rid of our precious guns.  Unfortunately, we seem to have forgotten the
 
 >original reason that is enshrined in our constitution in the first   
 >place.  Which is a different issue altogether.   
  
 This is most likely quite deliberate on the part of the gun-grabbers.  After
all, if you don't intend to commit a crime, you don't need a gun, now do you,
citizen? 
  
 Those who are not gun-grabbers know full well that the Second Amendment was
written with the express intent to keep the people armed to defend themselves
against an oppressive power, and that oppressive power may very well be inside
the borders. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3260950</link><pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2012 15:05:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3260950</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3260950@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 It's the "look over there - an eagle!" approach to the debate. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3260949</link><pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2012 15:05:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3260949</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3260949@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Exactly. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3260942</link><pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2012 14:09:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3260942</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3260942@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><br />Nice preemptive strike though...  "Quick, look over there!"</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3260920</link><pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2012 11:23:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3260920</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3260920@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Oh, today is the 23rd anniversary of Tianaman Square. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3260917</link><pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2012 11:10:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3260917</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3260917@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 At least we don't massacre our protestors or treat the rural population as
an effective slave labor pool. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3260778</link><pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2012 05:45:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3260778</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3260778@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>sometimes you have to watch your problems from a different point of view... or have them watched. then you just need to listen ;-)</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3260756</link><pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 19:40:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3260756</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3260756@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Well, we have certain cultural concerns that prevent us from getting rid
of our precious guns.  Unfortunately, we seem to have forgotten the original
reason that is enshrined in our constitution in the first place.  Which is
a different issue altogether. 
  
 But they say several things of interest, aside from the gun-control issue.
 But I wonder how many people will listen to them. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3260742</link><pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2012 15:21:32 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3260742</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3260742@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Fri Jun 01 2012 16:23:56 EDT</span> <span>from fleeb @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">RE: China... <br />Hm, interesting. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>yes, I think its important that not just the goverment can supress you.</p>
<p>and, except for the a little more penetrant beggers I felt pretty safe in china. Hyou have to know the right gestures to get rid of them: a turn of the hand with spread fingers next to your hip.</p>
<p>Ok, no facebook. well... ;-) and you have to get used to their way of road useage: walk when cars are standing, not when its green.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3260237</link><pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 16:44:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3260237</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3260237@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 s/majority/vast supermajority/ 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3260236</link><pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 16:44:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3260236</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3260236@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Although it makes you wonder how the world at large could have   
 >financial difficulties.  Something about that feels weird to me.  It   
 >feels to me as if parts of the world should do better than other parts.
 
  
 If, say, the majority of the advanced economies are in a financial crisis
-- and that seems to be the case at present -- then it's not such a happy
thing to be a less-advanced economy anymore, either. Even if, like China,
you don't carry a lot of debt. You need the developed world to supply high
tech stuff, and buy your stuff. 
  
 Here's a classic graphic, "The Kindleberger Spiral", showing what happened
to world trade during the Great Depression: 
  
 http://www.iie.com/images/noland0298-fig1.gif 
  
 Granted, some part of this bad outcome was due to attempts at protectionism.
But still. There were policy failures just about everywhere you could shake
a stick at. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3260229</link><pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2012 16:23:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3260229</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3260229@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Yeah, we're not being bailed out, exactly... we're just not getting as much
outrage as one might think.  But then, I suppose, if the rest of the world
is suffering financially, there's the rub. 
  
 Although it makes you wonder how the world at large could have financial
difficulties.  Something about that feels weird to me.  It feels to me as
if parts of the world should do better than other parts. 
  
 RE: China... 
  
 Hm, interesting. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3258758</link><pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2012 10:06:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3258758</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3258758@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2012-05/26/content_15392452.htm</p>
<p>China starts cataloguing human rights violations in the us of a.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3257280</link><pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2012 12:44:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3257280</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3257280@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > A 'world too-big-to-fail' effect would be, to my mind, one where a    

 >country racks up tremendous debt, but isn't allowed to fail because it 
   
 >would take out the entire world's economy.  Sorta like how companies   
 
    
 Ah. But that isn't the way that it's happened. Nobody's bailing the US out.
Certainly not the IMF or the World Bank, whose proper role is as a charity
for poorer emerging economies. We have the option to print our own way out
using our own printing press. We're the same as any other advanced economy
in that regard. The reason that our doing so hasn't sparked international
outrage and capital flight is that the world very much needs the printing
presses to be run right now. It almost doesn't matter who runs 'em, so long
as it isn't Argentina or somebody else with severe credibility problems and
a debt in foreign-denominated currency. If we were the only economy
that was having trouble, we wouldn't be able to do this (as) successfully.
But we're not, so we can.   
  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3254980</link><pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2012 12:33:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3254980</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3254980@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[And yet a fail would have been better for everyone in the long run, even if
it were painful while the correction was happening. 
  
 Sadly we are probably right there with the federal economy at this point.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3254878</link><pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 18:06:07 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3254878</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3254878@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 A 'world too-big-to-fail' effect would be, to my mind, one where a country
racks up tremendous debt, but isn't allowed to fail because it would take
out the entire world's economy.  Sorta like how companies were not allowed
to fail because they were deemed too big in this country to fail. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3254715</link><pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 09:16:32 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3254715</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3254715@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > None-the-less, how is it not a 'world too-big-to-fail' effect?   
  
 Wouldn't know. You coined the term but failed to define it. 
  
   
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3254711</link><pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 08:59:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3254711</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3254711@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 None-the-less, how is it not a 'world too-big-to-fail' effect? 
  
 This said, I wouldn't be surprised if other countries decided to slowly work
their way away from our dollar and relying upon our economy.  Especially if
we continue to abuse our position. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3253821</link><pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 01:38:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3253821</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3253821@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 How would everyone call all that debt? Your debt is someone else's savings.
And right now everyone is trying to save more. Are you opposed to double-entry
accounting? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3253509</link><pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 13:53:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3253509</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3253509@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 World Too-Bit-To-Fail effect. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3253501</link><pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 12:41:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3253501</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3253501@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[The government *is* broke.  The reason we haven't had an economic collapse
is because there is so much debt that if our creditors were to call all that
debt, the resulting economic collapse would be worldwide. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3253404</link><pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 11:11:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3253404</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3253404@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > May 23 2012 9:18pm from zooer @uncnsrd     
 >In a few recent blog posts, Paul Krugman used bar graphs and tables to (allegedly)
prove the superiority of his views over thos >e of    
 >the Austrians. Yet, as [Robert Murphy will] show in this article, [Robert
 Murphy] can use Krugman's own data to demonstrate th >e    
 >exact opposite.    
 >    
 >http://mises.org/daily/6055/Charting-Fun-with-Krugman    
 >    
    
 The link presented here is a bunch of ultra-partisan propaganda. Look, nobody
on the left is denying that the interwar period and the great depression were
bad, very bad. But you know, there were these two unprecedented wars--gee,
do you think that might have been an anomaly?   
    
 More to the point, we pin much of the blame for the severity of the great
depression on the #elementaryEconomicsFail imposed by the Austrians of that
era. Before the Fed, you had a clearinghouse
mechanism for containing banking panics. It had its own set of problems, but
it was becoming increasingly sophisticated with each passing crisis. By 1907,
the mechanism it had adopted was to print private money, which were liabilities
of the clearinghouse, that is, collective liabilities of the entire banking
system. So bankers will always cartelize when push comes to shove.   
  
  
 Then the clearinghouse mechanism for containing panics was replaced with
the Fed, and due to political pressure from the Austrian liquidationists of
the day - Hayek, Schumpeter, Mises, the lot of them - the Fed sat on its hands
and refused to accept its role in containing panics. #fail. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3253396</link><pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 10:57:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3253396</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3253396@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > I doubt Zimbabwe feels that way.   
  
 Automatic economics fail! Zimbabwe had a problem with debt *not denominated
in their own currency*! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3253391</link><pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 10:35:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3253391</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3253391@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I doubt Zimbabwe feels that way. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3253386</link><pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 10:14:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3253386</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3253386@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><br />One of the things I don't think anyone should really lose any sleep over is the government going broke. Its something that politicians use to hurt other Politicians  but it's really overblown and exaggerated  to spark fear and anxiety into voters. I worry about the important issues like war, socialized medicine, rights,freedom and lack thereof. Government going broke is nonsense.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3253243</link><pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 21:18:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3253243</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3253243@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[In a few recent blog posts, Paul Krugman used bar graphs and tables to (allegedly) prove the superiority of his views over those of
the Austrians. Yet, as [Robert Murphy will] show in this article, [Robert  Murphy] can use Krugman's own data to demonstrate the
exact opposite.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3252290</link><pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 11:47:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3252290</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3252290@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Well that's great -- if they work and they're cost competitive, then the government
shouldn't be subsidizing *any* energy suppliers -- renewable, consumable,
or otherwise.  That's the central point of all this: in energy, as in most
industries, the government needs to GET OUT and let the free market do its
job.  Everything simply works better that way. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3252250</link><pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 10:22:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3252250</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3252250@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I don't think it's inconvenient.  Rather, I 
think it demonstrates my point, raised 
earlier.  Renewables work, they're cost 
competitive, and aren't going anywhere.

That "old power" throws a fit merely is a 
precursor to them seeking government 
intervention to artificially 
inconvenience/manipulate the renewables 
market.  It's happened before, but I don't 
have a convenient way of researching prior 
examples on my phone.  Y'all'll have to wait 
until I get back to a machine with a real 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3252233</link><pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 09:01:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3252233</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3252233@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Nifty about Nagle's algorithm... that probably explains why I tend to see
only lines of data come through instead of characters when I use this client
against one of my own servers, although it doesn't explain the latency I experience
sometimes when ssh-ing to Uncensored. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3252097</link><pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 23:07:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3252097</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3252097@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[All of that is great, and I'm happy that it's happening.  Inconveniently,
however, you've also just made an excellent argument for letting the technology
and the market for energy advance on its own without the government deciding
the winners and losers. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3252062</link><pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 18:22:19 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3252062</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3252062@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >The problem is that the Hoover Dam doesn't scale.  We should definitely
 
  
 Washington (state) has installed so much wind and hydro that their grid is
at capacity during large storms (which tend to produce both wind and rain
at the same time.) Their solution: turn off the nonrenewable generators during
big storms. Give power away to neighbors for free. Innovative thermal battery
solutions installed in end-user homes designed to pull the excess power off
the grid during peak production events, and store it. 
  
 The nonrenewable producers are crying foul whenever they're asked to shut
down, but these are good problems to have. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3252059</link><pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 18:14:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3252059</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3252059@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Mon May 21 2012 17:35:50 EDT</span> <span>from Spell Binder @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">Re: Characters in telnet and TCP/IP overhead. <br /><br />fleeb: There's an option that can be turned on in most telnet clients nowadays which implements some form of Nagle's algorithm: <br /><br /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagle's_algorithm" target="webcit01">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagle's_algorithm</a> <br /><br />The basic idea is to bundle up smaller messages--where the overhead would otherwise be overly large, such as the one-byte messages sent by telnet--into larger messages before transmitting. It does improve data efficiency, but can end up doing so at the cost of latency. <br />Telnet Binder </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>it can also end up with backspace working or not.</p>
<p>some of these measures lead to telnet just sending finished lines to the server; so backspace can be implemented inside of the client, and the server never sees the wrong chars.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3252052</link><pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 17:35:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3252052</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3252052@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Re: Characters in telnet and TCP/IP overhead. 
  
 fleeb: There's an option that can be turned on in most telnet clients nowadays
which implements some form of Nagle's algorithm: 
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagle's_algorithm 
  
 The basic idea is to bundle up smaller messages--where the overhead would
otherwise be overly large, such as the one-byte messages sent by telnet--into
larger messages before transmitting.  It does improve data efficiency, but
can end up doing so at the cost of latency. 
   Telnet Binder 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3251982</link><pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 11:05:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3251982</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3251982@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>yes, the risk of reaction running away like in fukushima or harrisburg might be lower.</p>
<p>From reading I can tell you that the wikipedia article its pretty much all what was communicated in the media as well.</p>
<p>a reactor which can have a crack without anybody knowing for a decade is not a good thing to have.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3251979</link><pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 10:39:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3251979</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3251979@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[The reason pebble bed reactors are safe is because they can't spin out of
control.  You just pull the plug and the reaction stops. 
  
 I don't trust Wikipedia on anything controversial; they have a strong liberal
bias. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3251978</link><pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 10:36:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3251978</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3251978@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_bed_reactor#Criticisms_of_the_reactor_design</p>
<p>for a more detailed list.</p>
<p>I guess "nobody ever did this in production scale" is one of the even bigger concerns.</p>
<p>we're rather getting reliable cold fission in the whater glass then production scale pebble reactors.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3251974</link><pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 10:26:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3251974</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3251974@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Mon May 21 2012 10:13:35 EDT</span> <span>from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />@fleeb +1 , right on the money. We like renewables but we can't suspend basic economics for it. <br /><br />@dothebart -1 , this is FUD spread by the flat earthers. Current designs such as pebble bed reactors are solving these problems nicely; we just haven't seen big development of them (outside of China at least) because the greenazis continue to stonewall all new builds. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>there has been a pebble bed reactor in germany too. There were many problems with it, which made it a desaster on itself; next to that they don't scale up in size as other designs and don't solve the problem of what to do with used fuel either.</p>
<p>Latest news from it was that they "lost" some pebbles. wtf?</p>
<p>Pebble reactors are 80'ies scifi like 60'ies scifi about earth ships or jet turbine powered cars.</p>
<p>get alife.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3251961</link><pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 10:13:35 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3251961</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3251961@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[   
 @fleeb +1 , right on the money.  We like renewables but we can't suspend
basic economics for it. 
  
 @dothebart -1 , this is FUD spread by the flat earthers.  Current designs
such as pebble bed reactors are solving these problems nicely; we just haven't
seen big development of them (outside of China at least) because the greenazis
continue to stonewall all new builds. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3251888</link><pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 04:24:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3251888</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3251888@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I just think the operators of nuclear power stations should be ordered to be insured against a super gau; and unless there is a final storage of the used fuel... turn them off.They have been searching for 60 years now, its time for results.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3251802</link><pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 08:26:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3251802</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3251802@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 My statement was overly broad, but intended to button-hole the problem. 
  
 Renewable energy that demonstrates economically sound virtues will win hearts
and minds.  It isn't that people don't want to be ecologically nice.. they
just don't want it to come at a price greater than what they're already spending.

  
 This is especially true as the economy tightens up. 
  
 I wonder, if every character I type leads to over 500 characters getting
sent via TCP/IP packet overhead.  How ecologically sound is that? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3251748</link><pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 14:21:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3251748</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3251748@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[No doubt.  There are places where renewables are working fabulously.  The
problem is that the Hoover Dam doesn't scale.  We should definitely take every
opportunity to make use of renewables, but NOT at the expense of penalizing
the use of non-renewables. 
  
 For example, there is NO legitimate reason to stonewall things like drilling
permits, the Keystone pipeline, hydrofracturing, and the build-out of new
nuclear sites.  All that does is drive the cost of energy UP so that technologies
like Solyndra panels look affordable by comparison.  That isn't the free market;
that's the government picking winners and losers by thuggery.  Those who practice
this kind of thuggery need to be executed in a solar-powered electric chair.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3251519</link><pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 15:28:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3251519</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3251519@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Renewable energy will gain more followers when it shows itself to be  

 >economically sound.   
  
 That's LoanShark Rant #345, herein incorporated by reference. Executive summary:
Dude, the Hoover Dam is economically sound. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3251475</link><pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 10:15:28 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3251475</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3251475@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[[citation needed] 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3251436</link><pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 08:46:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3251436</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3251436@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Renewable energy IS economically sound.  
Despite years of industry attempts to squash 
it, attempts to legislate against it, and the 
general promulgation of half-truths or 
outright lies about it, it's still here, and 
shows no signs of going away.

Remember, renewable is more than just solar 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3251110</link><pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 15:17:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3251110</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3251110@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Everyone is too busy changing hearts and minds without following the money.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3250669</link><pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 10:40:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3250669</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3250669@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[There you go attempting to inject common sense into politics.  You know that
doesn't work  :) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3250649</link><pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 09:59:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3250649</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3250649@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Renewable energy will gain more followers when it shows itself to be economically
sound. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3249960</link><pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:01:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3249960</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3249960@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[There you go with your war against women and not wanting the government to hand out money to Planned Parenthood.  (He said with a 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3249670</link><pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 10:34:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3249670</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3249670@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[No one should be getting government subsidies at all.  That goes for both
conventional and "renewable" energy companies, as well as companies in any
market sector.  The government is broke and shouldn't be handing out money
to anyone. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3248745</link><pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 11:25:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3248745</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3248745@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Any company that rakes in hundreds of 
rillions in government subsidies on the 
grounds that they can't compete without them 
deserves nothing but contempt.

Apple pays for their own R&D out of their own 
revenue stream.  That's capitalism that 
works, and deserves the highest praise, 
regardless of what you think of their 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3248551</link><pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2012 23:09:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: A little something to get pissy about.  Share and Enjoy.</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3248551@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Hint: it isn't the oil industry driving the prices up.  It's a market that's
regulated in all the wrong places, and unregulated in all the wrong places.

  
 If you want to pick on greedy capitalist pigs, pick on Apple, not ExxonMobil.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3248343</link><pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2012 17:26:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: A little something to get pissy about.  Share and Enjoy.</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3248343@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>well, its not just people in the US crying for the bad oil industry driving the gas prices up...</p>
<p>and... every year on and on, gas is more expensive in the two easter weeks...</p>
<p>the other alternative... simply not buying gas at that time...</p>
<p>as long as one can find parking cars with the engine running gas still isn't expensive enough.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3248140</link><pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2012 15:28:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: A little something to get pissy about.  Share and Enjoy.</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3248140@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[(I would have picked on Apple instead of Nike, but that's just me...) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3248134</link><pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2012 15:27:21 +0500</pubDate><title>A little something to get pissy about.  Share and Enjoy.</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3248134@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><span style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">1) Only in America could politicians talk about the greed of the rich at a $35,000 a plate campaign fund raising event.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">2) Only in America could people claim that the government still discriminates against black Americans when we have a black President, a black Attorney General, and roughly 18% of the federal workforce is black. 12% of the population is black.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">3) Only in America could we have had the two people most responsible for our tax code, Timothy Geithner, the head of the Treasury Department and Charles Rangel who once ran the Ways and Means Committee, BOTH turn out to be tax cheats who are in favor of higher taxes.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">4) Only in America can we have terrorists kill people in the name of Allah and have the media primarily react by fretting that Muslims might be harmed by the backlash.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">5) Only in America would we make people who want to legally become American citizens wait for years in their home countries and pay tens of thousands of dollars for the privilege while we discuss letting anyone who sneaks into the country illegally just become American citizens.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">6) Only in America could the people who believe in balancing the budget and sticking by the country's Constitution be thought of as "extremists."</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">7) Only in America could you need to present a driver's license to cash a check or buy alcohol, but not to vote.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">8) Only in America could people demand the government investigate whether oil companies are gouging the public because the price of gas went up when the return on equity invested in a major U.S. oil company (Marathon Oil) is less than half of a company making tennis shoes (Nike).</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">9) Only in America could the government collect more tax dollars from the people than any nation in recorded history, still spend a trillion dollars more than it has per year for total spending of $7 million PER MINUTE,and complain that it doesn't have nearly enough money.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">10) Only in America could the rich people who pay 86% of all income taxes be accused of not paying their "fair share" by people who don't pay any income taxes at all.</span></p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3245812</link><pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 10:01:47 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3245812</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3245812@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[The problem with "the Conservative Party" is that they seem to automatically
put the Republican nominee on their ticket, every time.  If they want to be
the party who brings a sensible and rational American recovery they may need
to grow a pair and break away from the GOP. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3244864</link><pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 19:04:45 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3244864</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3244864@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[There is a Conservative Party.  I have also been telling people that I think the sheet is going to hit the fan in the next four years and 
who ever is President will take the blame.  Loosing isn't a bad thing.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3244862</link><pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 18:33:35 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3244862</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3244862@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[That article is pretty close to something I've been saying for a while now:
the problem with nominating anyone other than a dyed-in-the-wool conservative
is that a RINO will screw everything up and then the axis press will cry out
"See?  Look at what that Republican did!" 
  
 Really, the true conservatives ought to leave the GOP behind and form a new
party. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3244695</link><pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 17:13:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3244695</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3244695@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[egh, F'it.  Johnson/Gray http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/  or 
Why Conservatives should hope for a Romney loss.
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3244312</link><pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 14:28:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3244312</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3244312@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Right.  Flip flop flip.  That's a problem.  The person described on http://www.mittromney.com
is an attractive conservative, but will that be the same guy who enters the
white house if we vote for him? 
  
 Basically what I'm saying is that if his pendulum happens to be swung to
the right at this moment, it has to stay there until at least 2017jan20. 
And I'm hoping to try to figure out some clues that might reveal what his
true intentions are. 
  
 Then again, he might not even know himself.  Perhaps he really does have
an intention to be a conservative but could cave under pressure. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3244145</link><pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 12:43:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3244145</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3244145@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Gets all RINO?  I thought he was already there.
http://grrrgraphics.com/data/images1/romney_toon.jpg

and my graphic
http://palmbeachpravda.com/images/GOP.jpg


The selection process for the republicans:
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3243856</link><pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 12:09:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3243856</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3243856@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[He really does fall apart there.  If he wants to push a somewhat isolationist
agenda, that's fine, but by painting the US as an international provacateur
he commits a propaganda fail of which liberals are usually guilty. 
  
 The goal right now must be to get Mr. Romney to *be* the candidate he is
currently running as.  He won the nomination by painting himself as a "real"
conservative.  If he goes all RINO on us he's going to screw up everything.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3243438</link><pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 19:58:48 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3243438</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3243438@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3236971</link><pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2012 12:52:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3236971</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3236971@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >The republican party doesn't understand Ron Paul's message of limited government
and more freedom.  
  
 Sure they do. More freedom for bankers. Absence of constraint for bankers.
Absence of responsibility for bankers. They understand all that quite well--well
enough to co-opt it, that is, and give us all the downside of deregulation
without any upside. Look at what happened under Greenspan. Look at the rampant
anti-intellectualism from partisan hacks who think that the solution to our
financial problems is to "raise interest rates" 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3236874</link><pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2012 06:43:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3236874</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3236874@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3236499</link><pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2012 12:49:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3236499</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3236499@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Well, it's finally over, I guess.  Mr. Romney sweeps enough states to grab
the nomination.  Gingrich is winding down, America isn't ready for Ron Paul,
and the liberal media systematically eradicated all of the dyed-in-the-wool
conservatives. 
  
 Romney's *message* is on point.  He's *saying* all of the right things at
this stage.  But will he actually *be* the conservative he is campaigning
as, or will he "move to the center" in a lame attempt to be more palatable
to swing voters? 
  
 It's no surprise to anyone that the Obama camp has already started campaigning
against Bush.  Dunno if that'll work this time around. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3235754</link><pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2012 18:30:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3235754</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3235754@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Funny you should mention Ron Paul--funny ha-ha, that is.

Here's our favorite government extortionist, with some advice for Ron Paul:

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3234299</link><pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:23:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3234299</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3234299@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Israeli health insurance for traveling abroad is about $1.50 a day, no matter where you go.</p>
<p>If you end up sick somewhere they feel is too expensive, they fly you home for care (assuming you're stable enough to fly).</p>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3234133</link><pubDate>Wed, 18 Apr 2012 01:49:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3234133</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3234133@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>before my trip to china I had to book an additional health insurance.</p>
<p>its about 8e per year, and has the same conditions about stay days for all around the world in the default package.</p>
<p>Exception: USA &amp; Canada, which would be a lot more expensive because of "the private and expensive health systems over there"</p>
<p>no - I don't think this is related to obamacare.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3233333</link><pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:08:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3233333</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3233333@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Actually, I don't particularly think Laffer is veep material.  Maybe put him
in charge of the Treasury or the CBO or something. 
  
 However it stands to reason that "spend less, spend less, spend less, tax
less, tax less, tax less" is ABSOLUTELY COMPATIBLE with "tax less, tax less,
tax less." 
  
 Especially when we are on the right side of the Laffer curve. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3233326</link><pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2012 19:36:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3233326</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3233326@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I was looking through some files and came across an opinion article by Laffer that I had saved.  It is from June 2010 titled "Tax Hikes and the 2011 Economic Collapse"
'Today's corporate profits reflect an income shift into 2010. These profits will tumble next year, preceded most likely by the stock market. '

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704113504575264513748386610.html

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3233172</link><pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2012 20:07:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3233172</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3233172@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Paul/Laffer 2012!   
  
 Most. Self-contradictory. Ticket. Ever. 
  
 Paul: Hard-core pro-balanced budget ideologue. 
  
 Laffer: Hard-core pro-DEFICIT ideologue! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3233171</link><pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2012 19:58:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3233171</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3233171@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I am not arguing for tax cuts without spending cuts. I would like to see big
spending cuts. Massive spending cuts. Spending cuts even bigger than your
mom.  It is patently obvious that without spending cuts, no tax strategy will
balance the budget or pay off the debt. 
  
 To understand why we are not on the left side of the Laffer curve, Bill Whittle's
"Eat the Rich" piece is included, in its entirety, herein by reference. (typing
this on my phone otherwise I'd include a link) 
  
 No mainstream political hacks go far enough to cut spending because they
are all beholden to specisl interests. Some do better than others but none
even come close to doing the right thing. 
  
 Paul/Laffer 2012! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3233155</link><pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2012 17:50:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3233155</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3233155@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[        
 Back up your own implausible claims first.. You claim to be a fiscal conservative?
The idea that any unfunded tax cuts are going to pay for themselves is not
the conservative assumption.       
        
 Not over the long run, anyway.        
      
      
      
 We don't need permanent tax cuts at time when our credit ratings are being
cut. We need a credible plan for long-run balance. If you're arguing for tax-cuts
that aren't funded by spending cuts, you're arguing for monetary stimulus.
And if there's going to be stimulus, either from tax cuts or spending hikes,
it needs to be a layer on top of the long-run plan and it needs to be framed
it as temporary. Otherwise, the (thus-far invisible) bond vigilantes may punish
you...     
    
    
 Look, Ragnar, the problem with IG's "data" is not that's it's wrong, it's
that it changed the subject. The top marginal rate, paid by 0.1%
of people, has precious little to do with the Laffer Curve. He proved only
that the average tax rate remains around 20%, as a glance here would have
shown:   
    
 http://visualizingeconomics.com/2007/11/03/nytimes-historical-tax-rates-by-income-group/
  
    
 I actually think IG's data (as far as it goes, which is not far, because
looking at revenue as a percent of GDP doesn't do enough to validate the Laffer
Curve) actually supports my point more than his. You can clearly see that
when tax rates go up, revenue goes up. (Put that in your pipe and smoke it,
eh?)   
  
  
 But really, none of the data presented thus far is enough. You need to use
tools like VARs and IRFs to really make an objective case one way or the other...

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232837</link><pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 09:42:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3232837</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232837@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Still waiting for the data to back up LS's "empirical" claim. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232836</link><pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 09:42:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3232836</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232836@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Apr 12 2012 11:53pm from LoanShark @uncnsrd   
 >    
 > Your data blows goats. You compared the top tier with all the other   
 >tiers, which happen to average out at around... 19%. Completely   
 >specious.   
 >   
 >  
  
 Well, the top 10% of wage earners pay over 70% of the taxes....  The top
1% pays almost 37%.  I don't see how you can expect IG's data to show anything
else LS. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232834</link><pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 09:40:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3232834</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232834@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I think it's tough to determine where the exact pinnacle of the curve is.
     
    
    
 I do know that as a rule, when we've raised taxes, the economy tends to slow,
and when we drop them, the economy tends to speed up.   
  
  
 Maybe the curve is much more narrow than we expect, which is why government
revenues tend to stay around that 19% of GDP. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232729</link><pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:53:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3232729</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232729@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Your data blows goats. You compared the top tier with all the other tiers,
which happen to average out at around... 19%. Completely specious. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232720</link><pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 22:40:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3232720</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232720@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[That's the second time you've called your position "empirical" without presenting
any data to back up the claim. 
  
 As they say on Wikipedophilia:  [citation needed] 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232707</link><pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 20:39:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3232707</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232707@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[      
 RD:     
      
 Well you made a couple statements in there that I agree with, the rest not
so much.     
      
      
    
    
 Laffer is correct in a sense. There is a point of diminishing returns: as
a matter of common sense mathematical obviousness, there has to be. We are
simply not presently located to right of the peak, as an empirical matter.
  
  
  
 Now if you'll excuse me, I've got some final solutionizing to do. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232645</link><pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 17:53:45 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3232645</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232645@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[LS:          
        
 You're skewed in so many different ways I don't even know where to begin.
      
      
 Obama a fiscal conservative?  No President would accept multi-year $1.2 trillion+
deficits being fiscally conservative.  Period.     
    
 Blaming the Tea Party for Obama's noxious combination of tax increases and
spending increases and debt increases was not a "great deal".  They should
have shut the damned government down to show they were serious about it. 
The President won the political game, and made the Tea Party look foolish,
because they blinked instead of holding to principal.   
    
 The Laffer Curve - like it or not, Laffer is correct.  There is a point of
diminishing returns when raising taxes.  Where you think we are on the curve
and where I think are entirely different.  But, why are you against Laffer
in general?   
    
 We don't have so much a revenue problem
as a spending problem.  You can't be at 100% GDP, incur huge deficits each
year, continue to hide money on the Feds balance sheet, and have interest
rates near zero.  We're headed towards a lost decade like the Japanese.  

    
 A real fiscal conservative is going to look to balance spending and revenues.
 A real fiscal conservative wouldn't push through Health Care act during a
massive recession.     
  
  
 We should have let the automakers declare bankruptcy, renegotiate their contracts
and move on.  We should have a cogent energy policy.  We should make American
debt attractive by raising interest rates. 
  
 Instead, we're committing fiscal suicide as a nation. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232612</link><pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 15:29:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3232612</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232612@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ I've got a solution! 
  
 All these arguments around whether raising taxes will affect revenue or not
seem to be making one simple assumption: no change in the U.S. population.

  
 If so, then the answer is incredibly simple!  We need to increase the U.S.
population!  More people means more taxpayers means more gross revenue (who
cares about net!). 
  
 If we go forward with this idea, it would also end the whole controversy
about birth control.  We'd want less birth control to get more babies!  Of
course, the downside is that our need for petroleum products would skyrocket
due to the increased demand for diapers and baby toys (both mostly made of
plastic). 
   Baby Binder 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232520</link><pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 11:17:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3232520</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232520@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[You are equating "fiscal responsibility" with "more taxation" even after I've
demonstrated the history of that course of action consistently failing (WWII
to present, anyway).  Arguing otherwise hardly counts as lunacy. 
  
 The only fallacy I'll admit to at this point is omitting a couple of in-between
steps, so let's clear them up.  Although the implication should be obvious,
it's clear that we moved past the peak of the Laffer curve a long time ago.
 (How far to the right of the peak we are right now is irrelevant; moving
it around will only change the results within a margin of error.) 
  
 Since the Laffer curve is a simplification, obviously it's expressing tax
revenue in terms of absolute dollars, while the chart I showed is showing
tax revenue as percent of GDP.  If one were to plot a Laffer-like curve showing
the relationship between taxation and GDP, it would likely be a downward-pointing
bell.  Put those together and you end up with the chart I showed. 
  
 So what are we left with?  When we put Keynesians in power, they raise taxes,
which fails to increase revenue, then they raise spending beyond the tax hike,
which puts the budget even more out of balance, and we end up with this snowball
effect that bankrupted the country a long time ago yet continues to get worse.

  
 The GOP has a *long* list of problems.  Affirming the validity of the Laffer
curve isn't one of them.  It's convenient to point to that and tell the naive
people "look, it's a bunch of rich guys who don't want to pay their fair share"
but that's beyond a fallacy, it's plainly empty propaganda.  The numbers prove
otherwise. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232507</link><pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 10:11:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3232507</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232507@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ Yeah, nobody who knows shit disputes that there's a counterbalancing effect
from tax evasion, offshoring, or whatever. But if you make a real howler like
claiming all tax changes are PRECISELY revenue neutral, you're just placing
yourself in with the rest of the loonies. "Calling BS" on that is not a minor
or irrelevant difference -- it's fundamental. 
  
 Well, one good thing came out of this discussion--now that you've come out
of the closet not only as a Lafferite but a paleo-Lafferite, we can put to
rest all your claims about fiscal responsibility. 
  
 PURGE ALL THE LAFFERITES FROM THE GOP AND YOU PURGE THE GOP FROM THE FACE
OF AMERICA! WE NEED A FINAL SOLUTION TO THE LAFFER PROBLEM! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232427</link><pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2012 23:08:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: Laffer was right!</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232427@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Yes I know what Laffer's original curve looked like, and I maintain that you're
pointing out minor and irrelevant differences.  The bottom line is that raising
taxes does not work.  Punishing the wealthy by forcing them to give more money
to the government instead of using that money to create jobs does not work.
 Raising taxes only serves to biggerize the government, sucking the life out
of the private sector and causing investment to move to more business-friendly
places -- thus lowering the overall revenue and negating any gains made by
the new taxation (which, oops, they already spent and then some, so we're
even further in the hole than we were when we started). 
  
 Keynesian economics fails every time in practice.  That's why they need lies
to prop it up. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232424</link><pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2012 22:52:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: Laffer was right!</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232424@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Raising taxes does *not* increase revenue; the revenue level  
 >stubbornly stays at 19% of GDP regardless of the tax rate.  
  
 You prove you know nothing at all. You claim "Laffer was right", and then
you come out with this idiocy, which is worse than anything even Laffer ever
said. Here's a refresher for those who were asleep in class: Laffer postulated
a curve, sort of a parabola with a peak, and if we are located to the right
of the peak then cutting taxes would raise revenue; if we were located to
the left of the peak then raising taxes would move us towards the peak and
raise revenue. 
  
 P.S. Ur mom wuz a hamster. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232423</link><pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2012 22:45:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Laffer was right!</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232423@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I suspect that LS is referring to the <a href="http://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/laffercurve.asp#axzz1rmzdrEqQ">Laffer Curve</a> rather than the man himself.  Unfortunately for liberals, the inconvenient truth is that it's more than theory; it's a proven economic effect.  One need only look at this chart:</p>
<p><img src="http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/Tax%20Rates%20and%20Revenue.jpg" alt="" width="322" height="212" /> [ source: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/2ay6r32">http://tinyurl.com/2ay6r32</a> ]</p>
<p>Raising taxes does <strong>not</strong> increase revenue; the revenue level stubbornly stays at 19% of GDP regardless of the tax rate.  Furthermore, it is a documented fact that raising taxes does not pay down the debt; for every $1.00 of new taxation, there is a $1.17 increase in spending [source: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/7xb9ym8">http://tinyurl.com/7xb9ym8</a> ]</p>
<p>Nevertheless, our Marxist-in-Chief continues to fool a lot of people into thinking that class warfare is a good idea, and pushes the kind of taxation that sucks the capital out of the true source of economic growth: investment in business.</p>
<p>Finally, I assert that no "Grand Bargain" was offered at all.  Establishment RINO's bullied our Tea Party reps into accepting politics as usual.  A bargain with the devil is never a real bargain.  Now that it's clear that the GOP has failed to maintain itself as the bastion of conservatism, it's time for the conservatives to bail out and start a true conservative party.  GOP can be "democrats lite" and the traitor scum at MSNBC can continue bashing the hell out of them while the Real Americans go off somewhere else and save the country.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232420</link><pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2012 22:44:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3232420</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232420@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I didn't say that and you know it. No, ignore all the two-bit political 
hacks in the GOP who in turn ignore their own economists. As for 
Laffer, I have no idea what he's been saying these days and I could care 
less: as an empirical proposition, we are currently located to the left 
of the peak of the Laffer Curve. If we raise taxes, we raise revenue, 
period. We also make people unhappy, period. This is not a feel good 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232417</link><pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:50:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3232417</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232417@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Laffer?  The Reagan economist that when asked out of the last five Presidents who was the best President economically he 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232352</link><pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2012 16:26:47 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3232352</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232352@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >I hope you're using the word "moderate" with tongue planted firmly in  
    
 >cheek?      
      
 Honestly, not at all. He really low-balled the stimulus!     
    
    
 He totally planned to fail there... in 2009 the administration was clearly
anticipating a V shaped recovery and planned The Package around that. What
we got was L-shaped...   
    
 And don't you ever, ever forget the Grand Bargain offered to the Tea Party.
*Don't. Ever. Even. Think. About. Forgetting it.* A real Marxoid would not
have offered massive budget balancing in the midst of the worst recession/depression
since the interwar era. Like all those peace offers that Israel keeps offering
to the terrorists, which the terrorists keep rejecting, this was the best
bipartisan offer that the Tea Party was ever going to receive. It was their
chance to show that they were serious about balancing the budget, and those
Tea
Party morons totally fucking pissed it away.   
    
 And don't you dare forget it.   
    
 You want to tell me about fiscal responsibility? Wipe the Lafferites out
of the GOP and then we'll talk. To the extent the GOP has any conherent position
at all, it consists of bogus claims about how deficit-funded tax cuts will
actually raise revenue.   
  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232226</link><pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2012 11:19:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3232226</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232226@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I hope you're using the word "moderate" with tongue planted firmly in cheek?
 Obama makes Karl Marx look like a moderate. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232053</link><pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2012 19:31:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3232053</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232053@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232051</link><pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2012 19:05:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3232051</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232051@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Indeed... the choices this election are between a Massachusetts liberal and
a Chicago fiscal moderate with a poor track record on civil liberties. Not
that I think SpongePants would be any better in that regard. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3232041</link><pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2012 17:56:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3232041</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3232041@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3231960</link><pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2012 16:16:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3231960</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3231960@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[SpongeBob HolyUndies can't win against Obama.  I'd better go buy some guns
while they're still legal. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3231945</link><pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2012 14:26:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3231945</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3231945@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/10/santorum-to-suspend-presidential-campaign/?hpw

Looks like unity time for the GOP. Did somebody on the far right claim 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3231726</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 16:41:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3231726</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3231726@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[You know what they say: the grinning ones aren't free, and the free ones don't
grin. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3231710</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 15:21:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3231710</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3231710@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Apr 9 2012 1:37pm from LoanShark @uncnsrd   
 >    
 > There's no such thing as a free meatloaf.   
 >   
  
 What about a free grinning meatloaf? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3231706</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 14:52:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3231706</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3231706@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >You're rich? We need to talk.    
  
 Yes, I am from that most fortunate group of Americans who make more than
$52,000 per year -- or as Obama likes to call us, "millionaires and billionaires"

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3231696</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 13:37:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3231696</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3231696@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 There's no such thing as a free meatloaf. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3231694</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 13:11:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3231694</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3231694@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>ok, facebook, g+ and wordpress blocked behind the iron curtain.</p>
<p>nice weather, not much green in beijing.</p>
<p>verry new polished architecture with big bight LED-screens right next tco 80'ies underground stuff. Apple store got its own building...</p>
<p>wiring looks like in beirut in many places.</p>
<p>Taxxi realy cheap, starbucks next to 1:1 the euro price. So for 10miles of taxi one can drink one big coffee sort of.</p>
<p>air next to ok outside of work hours; looks like there is a forrest fire somewhere around the block at work-daytimes.</p>
<p>_many_ cars, some bikes.</p>
<p>medium/cheap asian cars, but many upper class cars; Mercedes, Audi/VW, BMW, Porsche. Next to no Renault or other french manufacturers very fiew GM cars, primarily german brand cars. Not many SUVs.</p>
<p>most taxis are hundai lantras. </p>
<p>10 Million bicycles in beijing miss melua? in some cellars maybe? not anymore.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3231693</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 12:55:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3231693</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3231693@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[You're rich? We need to talk.  
  
 Cranky, old and white I'll grant you. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3231688</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 12:45:07 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3231688</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3231688@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[We cranky old rich white men who are afraid of change appreciate your concession.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3231665</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 11:58:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3231665</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3231665@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Sorry. Us liberals will stop the caricaturing right away. And we're very,
very sorry. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3231659</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 11:07:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3231659</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3231659@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Colbert is funny but the existence of the show is a bit disingenuous.  Between
Stewart and Colbert they have a genuine liberal and a caricature of a conservative.

  
 And people have the nerve to criticize Rush Limbaugh.  *grml* 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3230648</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2012 11:07:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3230648</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3230648@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Gary Johnson on The Colbert Report.  
  
 It's not *just* that they want to balance the budget. Oh no, oh no... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3230363</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2012 20:30:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3230363</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3230363@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Gary Johnson on The Colbert Report.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3230360</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2012 20:26:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3230360</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3230360@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >If he is attacked and killed by 
 >those whose hatred was stirred up by the hyperbiased coverage of this 
 >event, his blood will be on the media's hands. 
 

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3230328</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2012 17:09:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3230328</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3230328@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 An excellent argument for defenestrating the FDA :-) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3230204</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2012 16:28:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3230204</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3230204@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Standard LP dogma is that the FDA is unnecessary and must be   
  
  
 Hey the FDA provides some of my income. A large portion actually. Not from
the FDA, but because of their actions. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3230180</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2012 14:34:57 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3230180</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3230180@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 never engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3230149</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2012 14:19:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3230149</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3230149@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Did a liberal journalist kill Trevon Martin, IG?   
  
 No, but liberal journalists photoshopped his photo to make him look more
like a sweet little boy instead of a thug whose screen name was "NO_LIMIT_NIGGA."
 They also edited the tape of the 911 call to make it sound like the shooter
uttered a racial slur.  And they provided completely one-sided coverage to
the whole debacle. 
  
 The Zimmerman family is in hiding.  If he is attacked and killed by those
whose hatred was stirred up by the hyperbiased coverage of this event, his
blood will be on the media's hands. 
  
 Meanwhile, gas prices are still approaching $5 because of green energy cronyism,
and no one is saying anything about it. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3230139</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2012 13:52:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3230139</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3230139@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[        
 LibertopiaBrainFart of the day:       
        
 Standard LP dogma is that the FDA is unnecessary and must be abolished, apparently
for the sole reason that it stands between you the consumer and the raw milk
that you so desperately want.       
        
 The Chinese government executed the head of its counterpart Food and Drug
Administration for failing to do his job: for being corrupt and allowing substances
dangerous to health and life to enter the domestic and export food value chains.
      
      
    
    
 [ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/09/AR2007070900689_pf.html
]   
  
  
 Kinda changes the perspective a bit... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3230135</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2012 13:15:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3230135</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3230135@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<blockquote>I think a large part of the frustration is the sad excuse for candidates that the Republican Party is offering.</blockquote>
<p>Which is why I still nominate IG for president.</p>
<p>He doesn't actually have to win, or even be nominated, or even provide proof of eligiblity. </p>
<p>I'm going to put you in as a write-in vote :D</p>
<p>-- <br />http://www.skpacman.com</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3230125</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2012 12:31:19 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3230125</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3230125@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I think a large part of the frustration is the sad excuse for candidates that
the Republican Party is offering. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3229948</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2012 11:08:07 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3229948</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3229948@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Did a liberal journalist kill Trevon Martin, IG? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3229934</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2012 10:25:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3229934</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3229934@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Ohh, but Mr. Santorum is giving them plenty of material. :-)

Don't look here, look somewhere else:
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3229929</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2012 10:16:32 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3229929</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3229929@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[None of this matters.  The liberal media is deliberately conducting narrative
after narrative about social issues, and will continue to do so until November,
in order to distract the public from thinking about the economy.  Birth control,
Treyvon Martin, civil rights for armadillos or whatever they come up with
next month ... all of it is deliberately engineered as part of the classic
game of "Don't look over there, look over *here*" and most people are falling
for it (see also: IG's First Rule of Everything). 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3229858</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 23:01:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3229858</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3229858@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Didn't work for the democrats in 88 either.  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3229853</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:13:07 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3229853</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3229853@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[In 2004 the democrats nominated and lost by choosing a wealthy arrogant Massachusetts liberal for their candidate.  What are 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3229835</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 20:18:57 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3229835</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3229835@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 Really? Let's review:   
    
 1) Santorum states that he thinks states are well within their rights to
ban birth control. His justification is "because that's what people want -
let the people decide"   
 2) Santorum makes no note of the fact that we are not an Athenian direct
democracy. We are a democracy with checks and balances. We don't just do whatever
the electorate wants.   
 3) Santorum makes no mention of any libertarian principle (either left-wing
libertarian or right-wing libertarian) of personal rights or personal autonomy
in decision making.   
 4) Quite the opposte: Santorum takes pot shots at libertarianism, says that
the state should limit individual wants and needs.   
    
 Santorum is neither libertarian nor, precisely, a small-government religious
conservative. Show me one place where he stands up for individuals' rights
to make their own decision in this matter.
All I see is the opposite.   
  
  
 It's a crappy argument from him anyway. You have checks and balances for
a reason, and there are serious legal principles involved - the state doesn't
just limit individual rights unless it can show benefits convincingly. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3229803</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 19:21:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3229803</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3229803@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[That doesn't sound like quite the same thing.  (Not that it matters, it appears
that we're pretty much stuck with SpongeBob HolyUndies at this point.) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3229705</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 10:33:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3229705</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3229705@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA["The state has a right to do that, I have never questioned that the 
state has a right to do that. It is not a constitutional right, the 
state has the right to pass whatever statues they have.  That is the 
thing I have said about the activism of the Supreme Court, they are 
creating rights, and they should be left up to the people to decide"

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3229704</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 10:30:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3229704</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3229704@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Santorum's position is quite clear: he believes that the court erred in 
Griswold vs. Connecticut; he believes that states have the right to 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3229681</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 08:32:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3229681</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3229681@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Please cite where Santorum said he wants to make contraception illegal? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3229668</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 07:47:48 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3229668</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3229668@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Well, I suppose if gays want to openly express themselves, it isn't too demeaning
to go into a life of professional wrestling... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3229604</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 22:21:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3229604</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3229604@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Today, professional wrestling is more about titillation than ever. The 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3229601</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 22:09:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3229601</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3229601@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I suppose I could throw away 14 years of a meaningful personal relationship
with my partner for the benefit of someone else's twisted vision of religion.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3229583</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 17:00:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3229583</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3229583@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Pledging my unwavering support for Rick Santorum! I've come to the 
realization that this country needs more babies, yes even if that means 
babies born to crack addict mothers who can barely afford to feed and 
clothe--it's those mothers' best shot at spiritual redemption!

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3226742</link><pubDate>Mon, 26 Mar 2012 16:58:47 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3226742</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3226742@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><img src="http://www.skpacman.com/images/collection/nobody.png" alt="" width="640" height="418" /></p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3223602</link><pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:44:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3223602</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3223602@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>hmz, if Mrs. Assad bought these pumps:</p>
<p>http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-79902-4.html</p>
<p>Mr. Assad probably steps on her feet while dancing more often..</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3223459</link><pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2012 22:19:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3223459</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3223459@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Buy low(er), sell high(er).  Take "oil" out of the picture and replace it
with another commodity, or stocks or bonds or securities or whatever.  Bang,
you've got Wall Street.  It is fascinating to watch how much wealth is created
out of thin air without any products or services ever coming into existence.

  
 Perhaps the effect is so magnified when it comes to oil because (1) large
swaths of our economy are closely dependent upon the available of abundant
energy and (2) because of this, energy topics carry a political charge. 
  
 Lower-level greenies might care about the environment, but they're being
fed the "save the earth" line because it allows the higher-level greenies
to use them as pawns in a larger game.  Whoever controls energy controls the
economy.  The same holds true at the other end of the spectrum, with anyone
who tries to put artificial constraints on the energy supply.  Big Government
and Big Business each want to be the gatekeeper. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3223288</link><pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2012 15:12:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3223288</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3223288@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ Back to oil for a moment... 
  
 I have a stupid question.  Does oil speculation benefit anyone other than
the speculators?  Though that may sound like a baited question, I'm truly
asking it honestly.  Certainly, if the speculators make money, they can then
turn around and spend that money, which can help the economy.  The trading
of oil futures itself benefits the exchange markets themselves as they collect
membership fees and whatnot.  I'm guessing that the trading also creates an
index that can be used to help gauge financial or economic trends, but how
that actually works is a little beyond me. 
  
 Thinking about a little more, it would seem to make sense that it would help
the oil suppliers.  Speculators buying oil futures could help smooth out any
dips or spikes in demand, which would help suppliers to regulate their inventory
and gauge how much oil production capacity they may need.

  
 I do have to wonder, though, what effects it would have on our economy if
there were no oil speculators. 
   Oil Binder 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3223285</link><pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2012 14:32:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3223285</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3223285@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Ron Paul's theory fails because it is fundamentally wrong.  It is a    

 >libertarian way of thinking but he fails here because it assumes that  
  
 >everyone is a libertarian.     
    
 A little bit of caricature here, but the libertarian argument seems to go...
"don't you know that we can't DO anything? If we DO anything there will be
BLOWBACK!!1one"   
    
 This argument gets applied in just SO many areas... China, to pick one example...
  
    
 But (a) China is "doing something" and (b) there has been no "blowback"...
  
  
  
 Now you don't want to collapse world trade with protectionism the way it
happened in the 1930s. But there are things we might consider doing. Generating
some "blowback" is one of those. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3223260</link><pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2012 13:49:28 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3223260</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3223260@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 There's certainly a cultural disconnection between our respective countries,
such that we embrace freedom and they embrace religious zealotry. 
  
 But, honestly, we haven't helped our cause there. 
  
 We continued to support the suppression by supporting the governments that
enforce the suppression, just as we do in S. Korea.  When the people overthrow
those governments, they don't exactly look at us with warm fuzzies. 
  
 I spent a month in S. Korea.  I befriended a S. Korean guy who was going
through the same PLDC course I had to finish.  One day, we noticed these little
pamphlets with caricatures of Uncle Sam squeezing the money out of S. Koreans
while their president cheered him on.  Chatting with my friend about it, he
pointed out that, if our country promotes freedom and liberty for all, why
does it continue to support their rather totalitarian government? 
  
 I couldn't really
answer that question. 
  
 I could now, but the answer sounds really lame when you see how the common
person lives out there. 
  
 I don't think the middle east's religious zealotry can stay permanent.  I
think it will pass.  BUt I don't see how the people have many decent alternatives
right now. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3222880</link><pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2012 15:27:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3222880</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3222880@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Ron Paul's theory fails because it is fundamentally wrong.  It is a libertarian
way of thinking but he fails here because it assumes that everyone is a libertarian.

  
 Oil-supplying (and non-oil-supplying) Muslim countries don't hate us "because
we're mean to them."  They hate us because freedom and liberty are baked-in
to both our law and our culture.  (Yes, this is being slowly eroded, and those
same folks are partially to blame, but we're still way ahead of them.) 
  
 We could stop buying oil from them tomorrow, pull out all of our troops and
money, etc. and we would still be "the great satan" to them.  They would still
burn our flag. 
  
 The "pure" libertarian approach would be to simply pull out all of our money
and support anyway because we don't belong there.  If they want to act in
self-destructive ways then that's their perogative. 
  
 Continuing to send billions of dollars
to countries that regularly burn our flag and tell us how much they hate us,
when we have to borrow that money in order to send to them, is just layers
upon layers of sheer lunacy. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3222722</link><pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2012 11:36:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3222722</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3222722@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[LS - That's exactly what I should've said. Yes. Directly we get only a small
fraction of our oil from the Middle East. But it doesn't matter. Global Market.
It all interconnects. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3222712</link><pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:38:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3222712</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3222712@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > I don't remember where I'd heard this, but my understanding is that we
 
 >get less than half of our oil from Arab countries.  If that's the case,
 
  
 Common fallacy. Oil is a global market. It doesn't matter where we get our
oil, it matters where the world gets its oil. Which I think is another reason
why the ron paul theory doesn't work 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3222657</link><pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2012 06:12:48 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3222657</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3222657@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Ok. that was surprising how much is from Canada and Mexico...</p>
<p>Is Texas tapped out or what? </p>
<p>I remember when I lived in Oklahoma, I'd see oil wells everywhere. (This was in the mid-80s.)</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3222567</link><pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:55:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3222567</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3222567@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Spell - I think it's less than that.. Actually here's 6 months of 2011  
  
  
 whether or not you believe it is another discussion. 
  
 http://macromon.wordpress.com/2011/10/04/sources-of-u-s-petroleum-imports/

  
  
 But less that 15% of our oil comes from the Persian Gulf. 
  
 It's not the direct effect on oil prices that causes a problem. It's the
INDIRECT effect. What I mean by that is that there are plenty of toher users
of oil in the world. If OPEC prices go up, the other country might look to
purchase oil from our suppliers, thereby raising the prices. There is no such
thing as isolation or having these issues not connected. It's all interconnected.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3222519</link><pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:26:45 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3222519</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3222519@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ I don't remember where I'd heard this, but my understanding is that we get
less than half of our oil from Arab countries.  If that's the case, then whether
we piss off Arab countries or not shouldn't have a direct effect on oil prices.
 I could see an indirect effect due to speculators, though. 
   Oil Binder 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3222324</link><pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2012 20:45:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3222324</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3222324@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > (oblig: he's not a Keynesian; he's a Kenyan. *rimshot*) 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBrHkxqNT7s

(That was taken from the Jon Stewart rally, so I am sure you have 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3222319</link><pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2012 20:14:35 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3222319</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3222319@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > I think that the only thing that saved us from going off a cliff in   
 
 >2008 was how fast the cost of fuel dropped.     
    
 People get too hung up on "speculators." Yes, speculators are settings prices.
Yes, supply-and-demand is setting prices. Both of these things are true. Even
the invisible hand needs humans to act through.   
    
 In 2008, price-setters had their heads down and were interested in finding
the answer to a real-world economics quiz: how high can prices go before demand
chokes? The answer turned out to be just shy of $5.    
    
 This was all the worst (or best?) possible timing, of course; it had to happen
at the same time as the subprime meltdown.   
    
 So of course the cost of gas dropped when sellers realized (belatedly) that
their customers were all going broke.   
  
  
 Meanwhile, back on the ranch, Ron Paul is living in fairyland: he believes
the "true
price" of oil is much smaller than what you see today, and he places the primary
blame on the military for pissing off the Arab countries. 
  
 This is just silly. The true price is whatever is being quoted, right now.
And the answer to that abovementioned economics quiz still applies. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3222108</link><pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:59:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3222108</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3222108@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Fuel has an effect on everything.....  It ripples through the whole economy
with great speed - certainly faster than interest rates, etc.   
  
  
 I think that the only thing that saved us from going off a cliff in 2008
was how fast the cost of fuel dropped. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3221949</link><pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2012 09:59:07 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3221949</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3221949@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[To refer to a hardcore ideologue like Obama as "Keynesian" would be the understatement
of the year. 
  
 (oblig: he's not a Keynesian; he's a Kenyan. *rimshot*) 
  
 Anyway I have to call into question the wisdom of piling more spending and
debt onto an already beleaguered economy.  They had to have known the suicidal
implications of this, otherwise they wouldn't have deferred the tax burden
of their new socialized medicine law until after the 2012 elections. 
  
 If we're going to play "one variable economics" then the only reasonable
variable to use would be the bottom line.  That means cut, cut, cut, and cut
some more.  (So yeah I guess you could call that a Hayek-like approach, or
you could just call it common sense...) 
  
 Time to break out the rappin' economists ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3221896</link><pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2012 00:25:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3221896</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3221896@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I miss the 80s...</p>
<p>When I was young enough that I had no clue what was flying with US politics.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3221889</link><pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2012 23:41:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3221889</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3221889@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Best part is that neither of them get to suffer for their theories. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3221886</link><pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:20:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3221886</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3221886@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 A Ouija board? Summoning voices from beyond the grave? Yes, I agree: it's
become little more than the battle of dead economists, of late. Who will win:
Hayek or Keynes? They're both dead, now, so Hayek can no longer claim to have
won simply by outliving.   
  
  
 Celebrity zombie deathmatch? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3221875</link><pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2012 21:30:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3221875</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3221875@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Four years ago?  No, certainly not, but I can't blame Obama for my own follies.
 I could have quit this job and chased after something else, but elected to
stick to it for now. 
  
 Still, I kinda feel like our economy is a hot potato, and Obama managed to
get handed something very nasty.  He came into term with a shitty economy,
and goodness knows, his attempts to handle it seem like something influenced
more by a Ouija board than anything sound and thought out. 
  
 Worst person for the job.  But then, we haven't had anyone decent in a very
long time.  I wish we had a real leader, instead of someone who just tries
to follow metrics, imagined best practices, and The Party Line. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3221872</link><pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2012 21:20:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3221872</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3221872@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3221868</link><pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2012 20:46:45 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3221868</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3221868@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Cheap energy drives our economy.  Period.   
  
 Let's pay the "one-variable macroeconomics" game. Here's my entry: 
  
 http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2011/11/joe-weisenthal-the-sp-500-and-the-inverse-of-jobless-claims.html

  
 Ok, it's not exactly *mine*... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3221867</link><pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2012 20:34:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3221867</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3221867@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >As for economics, if you look at Smith, Keynes, Hayek, Marx and   
 >Friedman I think you'd agree that as far as predictions, Hayek probably
 
 >has the best track record.   
  
 Hayek bobble-head dolls for every citizen! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3221865</link><pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2012 20:18:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3221865</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3221865@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > (Well at least there's one thing that liberals and conservatives can  

 >agree on: Romney sucks.)   
  
 +1. 
  
 Now let's start working on solutions. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3221864</link><pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2012 20:18:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3221864</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3221864@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Are you better off now than you were four years ago?   
  
 Personally? Yes. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3221858</link><pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2012 18:44:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3221858</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3221858@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Rush followed up on the whole "lost advertisers" thing later on.  He said
that they didn't lose any network-wide sponsors, and the 20-30 that were pulled
from affiliates were out of tens of thousands across the entire network. 
  
 Anyway I do think it's important to keep focused; the whole slutgate thing
and other social issues that are going to be brought front-and-center this
year are designed to take our attention away from Obama's poor handling of
the economy. 
  
 Are you better off now than you were four years ago? 
  
 (Well at least there's one thing that liberals and conservatives can agree
on: Romney sucks.) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3221423</link><pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 11:34:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3221423</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3221423@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Sideshow Bob 2012! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3221421</link><pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 11:27:32 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3221421</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3221421@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Speaking of, Rush Limbaugh rejected a return of one of his advertisers who
is trying to get back with him after the Sandra Fluke thing....  So long Sleep
Train Matress Centers! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3221420</link><pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 11:26:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3221420</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3221420@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Always happy to rant. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3221369</link><pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 06:54:47 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3221369</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3221369@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><br />Welcome back, Rag - nice to see you here!</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220735</link><pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2012 09:24:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220735</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220735@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 (Now, THERE'S free trade!) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220733</link><pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2012 09:22:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220733</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220733@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 The automatic cuts fall short of what's needed over the long term, but they
are significant. The military and contractors will not be happy about them.
Which hurts my hometown and home state -- the largest employer there, surprisingly
employing people in all 16 counties, is a defense contractor; there is an
argument that my hometown would be a ghost town without the US Navy. An overstated
argument, mind you, but an argument nonetheless. ;) When a large enough entity
hires enough people, you get a whole small-city's worth of secondary jobs
that are also created as knock-on effects. Factory workers need people to
clean their teeth, and people to buy shoes from... 
  
 But hell, I suppose we can always sells warships to the Canadian, Somalian,
or Republic of Texas Navy after we lose the US as a customer... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220727</link><pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2012 08:29:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220727</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220727@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Yes, but... do you see us using a slow-liquidation strategy here?  So far,
all I see is that we continue to spend outrageously. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220559</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 22:07:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220559</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220559@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 I think everybody realizes that, at some point, if you keep letting your
debt grow to the sky, you lose credibility, and you have to either start slow-liquidating
or just default.   
    
 The slow-liquidating strategy is far easier to implement when your country
retains full sovereignty. Countries like Greece, however, have ceded some
of their sovereignty to Brussels. If, like Greece, you just do an uncontrolled
default, nobody wants to do that except those who have exhausted all other
options.   
  
  
 Besides full sovereignty, there are two other necessary conditions for the
strategy to work: most of your government debt is denominated in your own
currency, and most of your private sector debt is denominated in your own
currency. We are in a good position in that regard. 
  
 Unlike Hungary; although they have their own currency, much of their private
sector debt is denominated
in Euros, which they do not control. 
  
 Carmen Reinhart & Ken Rogoff have published some interesting research on
the mechanisms underlying the post-WWII debt liquidation... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220404</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 19:07:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220404</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220404@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 So, do you see us using a slow-liquidation strategy h ere? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220352</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 14:54:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220352</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220352@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 Well, I try to be careful not to become a member of the Tinfoil Hat Club...
  
    
 We have been down this road before. It's how we dealt with the post-WWII
debt. History is clear that a slow-liquidation strategy can and does deal
with debt.   
  
  
 In fact, it's the preferred strategy. You don't want to blow a hole in everybody's
balance sheet all at once. Greece tried that one. Didn't work so well for
them. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220350</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 14:41:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220350</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220350@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Heh... that's faith. 
  
 Observable phenomenons suggest a different story. 
  
 Our government is losing its mind.  And the people driving it aren't listening
to the voters anymore... they listen to their own party, or special interest
groups.  And, unfortunately, it works for them, without working for us. 
  
 All political parties will continue to expand spending, because they're addicted
to it.  The public debt is like crack-cocaine to a federal politician.  Spend
it, and you look great, while continuing to burden some nebulous future generation.
 Since we have no immediately negative effecgts, and the US citizens won't
put a stop to it, it will continue, until something gives. 
  
 I had hoped I wouldn't be around for it, but I guess I will. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220345</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 14:09:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220345</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220345@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 I have an inkling of who you speak... and yes, I'm not a fan.   
    
 One way or another, the budget will converge to sanity over the long run--it
has to. Americans will eventually do the right thing--after, perhaps, exhausting
all other possibilities.   
  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220340</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 14:02:48 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220340</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220340@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Perhaps, but can you name anyone in big politics right now who has suggested
the only viable economic option -- that is, big, deep, painful cuts to spending?
 (I can only think of one, and I know you're not a fan.) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220331</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:54:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220331</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220331@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 The sentence that you quote is a tangent. I brought up Mankiw, then I explained
who he was for the benefit of those who might not know...   
  
  
 "Bankrupt" is a bit of hyperbole. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220329</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:46:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220329</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220329@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > On that note, Mankiw is one of Romney's economics advisors, and Romney
 
 >seems to be busy ignoring the advice of his economists.   
  
 Romney who?  All I said was that Obama's economic policies have failed. 
I don't know the economic policies of this "Romney" of whom you speak, but
it's a fair assessment that if the current occupant of the White House has
spent the last three years adding trillions of dollars of debt to an already
bankrupt nation, that should be the first and foremost thing being discussed.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220310</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:02:32 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220310</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220310@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >I think you made my point.  It's spin.   
  
 Not really... your point is unmakeable. Who the fuck cares if they're greendroids
who want to save the planet AND save themselves a buck, or Randroids who want
to save themselves a buck AND save the planet? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220309</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:01:28 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220309</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220309@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I think you made my point.  It's spin. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220308</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:00:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220308</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220308@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Disagree. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220307</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 13:00:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220307</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220307@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[As for economics, if you look at Smith, Keynes, Hayek, Marx and Friedman I
think you'd agree that as far as predictions, Hayek probably has the best
track record. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220306</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:57:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220306</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220306@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 They're just trying to put a nice spin on things... but the fact remains
that the vast majority of tote bags are typically discarded by conference
attendees. (I know what I'm talking about here -- I worked for a company that
organized two conferences every year.) 
  
 That's waste. And when you notice waste, you decide to save yourself some
money. Being nice to the planet happens to be a happy side effect. Is the
effect not the same? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220305</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:55:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220305</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220305@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Again, it's about the money, not about the planet.  I hate people who act
magnanimous, yet they have completely different goals. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220304</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:53:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220304</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220304@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Mar 7 2012 12:51pm from Ragnar Danneskjold @uncnsrd     
 >I got an invitation to a conference today, which on the invitation it  
  
 >states they will no longer be giving out conference bags (or swag bags 
   
 >as we all call them) due to their work towards a sustainable planet.   
   
 >      
 > Bullshit.  It saves you a few bucks - while claiming to be good     
 >stewards of the earth.  Fuck you, assholes.     
 >     
 >    
    
 They're not assholes, they're just stupid. (Like Rush, but I digress.)  

    
 Hanlon's Razor applies here. It's very typical for conference organizers
to give out a lot of bags... and then notice discarded ones all over the hallways.
Ceasing to give out the bags is a rational response, but a better response
is to require those who want one to pre-register for it. I've seen this used
to good effect.   
  
  
 Incompetence. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220302</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:51:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220302</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220302@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I got an invitation to a conference today, which on the invitation it states
they will no longer be giving out conference bags (or swag bags as we all
call them) due to their work towards a sustainable planet.   
  
 Bullshit.  It saves you a few bucks - while claiming to be good stewards
of the earth.  Fuck you, assholes. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220300</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:51:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220300</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220300@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Mankiw doesn't know what he's talking about.     
  
 I absolutely, don't agree with everything he ever wrote, but the link I cite
is sensible. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220298</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:48:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220298</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220298@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/Harvard-Mankiw-Gasoline-Taxes/2012/01/24/id/4
 25277   
    
 Mankiw doesn't know what he's talking about.   
  
  
 Cheap energy drives our economy.  Period. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220296</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:45:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220296</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220296@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >anything other than Obama's failed economic policies.   
  
 show me someone on the right who isn't going around acting like a loon thumping
books written by Hayek as if it's the King James Edition, and then the right
might have some credibility on economics with me. Nothing further to the right
than Mankiw's compromise[1] makes any sense whatsoever... 
  
 On that note, Mankiw is one of Romney's economics advisors, and Romney seems
to be busy ignoring the advice of his economists. 
  
 [1] as expressed in paragraphs 1-2 of http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2011/12/draghi-deal.html

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220286</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:16:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220286</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220286@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Again, however -- by continuing to pay attention to Sandra Slut Fluke and
other "social issues" debacles being loudly touted by the axis press, we are
falling victim to their plan to keep people talking about anything other than
Obama's failed economic policies. 
  
 Rush should know better than to give airtime to any of this. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220245</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 10:01:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220245</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220245@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[If you want to see what an idiot looks like, look here: 
  
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNZczIgVXjg 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3220244</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 10:00:35 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3220244</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3220244@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Rush isn't an idiot....  He's part pundit, part comedian.  Now, I personally
don't care for Rush, I'd rather he play it straight.  But I wouldn't underestimate
him at all. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3219912</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2012 23:25:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3219912</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3219912@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Idiots will pay to listen to slightly less stupid idiots. They're DESPERATE
to climb one rung up the totem pole. 
  
 Pretty soon, Rush will be as desperate for attention as Imus was here: 
  
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbI2BuoN2iw 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3219656</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2012 17:22:19 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3219656</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3219656@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[600 stations and 15 million listeners.  The man isn't stupid, and is laughing
all the way to the bank. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3219628</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2012 14:53:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3219628</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3219628@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Or, like Rush, both. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3219627</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2012 14:52:28 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3219627</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3219627@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[(Yeah, it's definitely time to break out a couple of cool frosty Sam Adams
right now  :)   
  
  
 As for that slut Sandra Fluke ... pretty much everyone has been played here.
 Fluke is described by the media as a "third year law student" but she's also
a full time activist.  She is 30 years old, not 23.  And she is also the past
president of "Law Students for Reproductive Justice." 
  
 So yeah, I think Rush screwed up.  Not because he took a common sense position
but because he got suckered into arguing a debate that was carefully engineered
by provacateurs to be unwinnable as long as it was played on their terms.

  
  
 Why is it that nearly everyone involved in big politics right now is either
evil or stupid? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3219581</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2012 13:16:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3219581</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3219581@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Mmm, Kochtopus. Yummy. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3219557</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2012 11:30:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3219557</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3219557@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[The social issues this political season, as Reason.com says the "slut" is a red herring.
http://reason.com/archives/2012/03/05/rush-limbaughs-slut-comment-is-a-red-her
It is none of our business how much the 30-year-old college student wants to sleep around, but it is none of my business to pay for her birth control to sleep around.
I caught about two minutes of Rush's show yesterday, he said the democrats won on this issue because the republicans have no idea what hit them.

Intrade.com still has Obama's chances of a second term at 60%.  Romney winning the republican primary is up to 85%.  It will be interesting to see how much these figures change by 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3219524</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2012 08:06:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3219524</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3219524@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX5FrexyQyo 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3219423</link><pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2012 22:58:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3219423</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3219423@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[The "consenting adults" thing seems to be the appropriate outlook, at least
from a common sense point of view.  However one feels about the subject, it's
none of the government's business to decide who can get married and who can't.
 It's a civil affair and you go with what you feel fits your own moral framework.
 I got married to a member of the opposite sex, in a church, because in my
world that's how it's done -- but I don't have any right to force my world
onto everyone else.  This is the central problem with the statists: they feel
that anything worth doing, is worth having the government oversee.  So when
they hear "X should not be paid for by the government" they parse that as
"those evil conservatives think that X should be illegal."  Birth control
is a great recent example of this. 
  
 You're going to hear a lot about social issues this year.  The reason for
this is that the media
wants people talking about *anything* other than the economy during this election
cycle. 
  
 I'd like to see people show some respect for a change.  Special interest
groups using the government as a cudgel to beat each other with doesn't help
the situation.  People trying to use the Bible to justify absolutely indefensible
positions doesn't help either. 
  
 Sorry for rambling, it's late and I'm fighting off a cold and where the hell
is my giraffe? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3219400</link><pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2012 19:47:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3219400</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3219400@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>under my administration there will be no government recognition of any type of marriage, so you can go ahead and marry whoever or whatever you want. </blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>What if that person doesn't want to merry you?</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3219377</link><pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:59:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3219377</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3219377@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I never forgot about Reverend John Haggee's comments that Hurricane Katrina
came about as God's way of wiping out New Orleans because it had a gay pride
parade the week before. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3219068</link><pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2012 07:41:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3219068</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3219068@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Who is this televangelist, and does he not know that the God of the New Testament
doesn't do stuff like that anymore?  Please give me his address so I can send
him a Bible that doesn't have pages missing. 
  
 And of course it should go without saying that under my administration there
will be no government recognition of any type of marriage, so you can go ahead
and marry whoever or whatever you want. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3219062</link><pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2012 07:05:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3219062</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3219062@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 And pass the ammunition. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3219027</link><pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2012 04:36:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3219027</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3219027@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Amen?</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3218856</link><pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2012 08:04:38 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3218856</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3218856@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 While it's still raw, and just to show how fucking insulting certain televangelists
are, I'd like to bring attention to an ignored fact. 
  
 All of the states that suffered from the terrible tornadoes this weekend
have banned people of the same gender getting married.  Using televangelist-logic,
it follows that they are responsible for their own misery. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3218492</link><pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2012 14:34:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: IGnatius T Foobar - A Plan For America That Doesn&#39;t Suck</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3218492@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Thu Mar 01 2012 06:59:05 PM EST</span> <span>from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re: IGnatius T Foobar - A Plan For America That Doesn't Suck</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>(The permalink for the above post is <a href="http://tinyurl.com/IGnatiusTFoobarForPresident" target="webcit01">http://tinyurl.com/IGnatiusTFoobarForPresident</a> -- please feel free to pass it around.)</p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p><br /> Added to my dev site.. last link in the left nav bar (see link to my site in my signature)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>-- <br />http://skpacman.hopto.org</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3218240</link><pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2012 22:09:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: IGnatius T Foobar - A Plan For America That Doesn&#39;t Suck</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3218240@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[What if I told you that the seventh day of my term falls on a Saturday?  That
happens to be *not* the sabbath for my religion.  Besides, I didn't say that
*everyone* has to rest.  I'll just need a break after working a tough six-day
week. 
  
 Oh, and at the glitzy stupid inauguration ball with all of the stupidfest
celebrities on hand I'll take the opportunity to review how we're going to
repeal the DMCA and reform copyright law so that it favors individual artists
and disempowers big media companies. 
  
 They won't complain *too* loudly, because after I repeal every drug law that
says anything other than "the label has to be accurate," most of them will
be too baked to care. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3218219</link><pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2012 19:03:03 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: IGnatius T Foobar - A Plan For America That Doesn&#39;t Suck</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3218219@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Sorry, IG, there will be no resting...that would be a violation of the separation of religion and state.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3218216</link><pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2012 18:59:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: IGnatius T Foobar - A Plan For America That Doesn&#39;t Suck</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3218216@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>(The permalink for the above post is <a href="http://tinyurl.com/IGnatiusTFoobarForPresident">http://tinyurl.com/IGnatiusTFoobarForPresident</a> -- please feel free to pass it around.)</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3218212</link><pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2012 18:33:40 +0500</pubDate><title>IGnatius T Foobar - A Plan For America That Doesn&#39;t Suck</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3218212@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>All of the current politicians <em>do</em> suck, and as of late I'm feeling somewhat disenfranchised and fatalistic about the whole situation.  So perhaps we as a nation deserve to get our asses kicked at this point ...  unless we can get someone in office who dismisses the whole damn system and just <strong>gets things done.</strong>  That person is me. </p>
<p>You don't have to vote for me; I will be taking control of the White House on 2013jan20.  I will be your next President.  In 2000 we proved that you don't have to actually win the election.  In 2008 we proved that you don't even have to be a native-born American who qualifies for the office.  So in 2012 we will prove that you didn't even have to <em>run</em> for the office by installing someone (me) who wasn't even <em>participating</em> in the elections.</p>
<p>On my first day in office I will sign an executive order excluding the state of Washington from the union.   We will then declare war on the Evil Republic of Washington, and the bombing of Redmond will begin that night. </p>
<p>On my second day in office I will sign another executive order making it legal to shoot anyone caught crossing the border illegally.  Gun-toting patriots will flock to Texas and Arizona and take care of the illegal immigration problem without the government having to spend one cent on enforcement.</p>
<p>My third day in office will be spent visiting Congress.  I will make it clear to them that they have 24 hours to have a bill on my desk for signing that will repeal ObamaCare.  If they do not comply, we will drop all security at the Capitol and permit/encourage citizens to administer <em>atomic wedgies</em> to the congresscritter(s) of their choice.</p>
<p>On the fourth day I will travel to the headquarters of all unnecessary government agencies (department of education etc) and personally shut off the electricity in those buildings as those agencies are dismantled.  The National Guard will be deployed to handle any violent public sector union protests when superfluous federal employees are dismissed.  Other agencies will be downsized until they are no longer exceeding their authority; for example, the FCC will be permitted to oversee the use of broadcast spectrum but will not be permitted to regulate content on the airwaves.</p>
<p>Day five will be spent overhauling our energy policy.  All subsidies will be immediately stopped, both to conventional and "alternative" suppliers.  The free market will decide what kind of energy is the most economical.  All permits for domestic energy production will be granted; we will drill for oil and gas; we will build pipelines; we will fast-track nuclear facilities.  Once this is completed we will significantly reduce the amount of oil we buy from terrorists.  Speaking of subsidies -- we will also stop funding the United Nations.</p>
<p>Then on day six I will overhaul our tax code.  There will be a 10% flat tax, no brackets, no deductions.  The corporate tax rate will also be set at a flat 10%.  At least half of the IRS may then be dismantled due to the simpler tax code.  I will enact a 15% tarriff on anything imported from Communist China, and a 25% excise tax on anything produced by union labor.  This will immediately produce <em>useful</em> domestic jobs.</p>
<p>On the seventh day I will rest.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3218192</link><pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2012 16:30:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3218192</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3218192@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>IG, the big secret is that the ALL suck!</p>
<p>IGGY for President.  Pervect for Congress.  </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3218154</link><pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2012 14:23:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3218154</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3218154@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3218022</link><pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2012 10:36:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3218022</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3218022@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Presumably you were referring to 2009 and 2010 during which the communists
controlled both chambers of Congress and also the White House.  And yes, they
had enough foresight to defer the bad effects of their legislation (mainly
the megataxes that will result from the full implementation of OsamaCare)
until after the 2012 elections are over. 
  
 Unfortunately ... since OsamaCare was modelled after RomneyCare, does anyone
really think that Romney would sign a repeal?  I doubt it.  Most conservatives
believe that Romney will reveal his true colors immediately after receiving
the nomination. 
  
 Right now we need to figure out THE SECRET.  Andrew Breitbart knew something
important and that's why the democrats murdered him.  We need to know what
it was that he knew. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3217764</link><pubDate>Wed, 29 Feb 2012 19:36:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3217764</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3217764@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Uhmm.. democratic controlled congress in the last three years? uhmmmm.. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3217653</link><pubDate>Wed, 29 Feb 2012 16:40:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3217653</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3217653@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[All the bills the democratic controlled congress passed in the past three years are going to become laws in 2014-2015.  If these new laws have a negative reaction it 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3217559</link><pubDate>Wed, 29 Feb 2012 12:20:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3217559</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3217559@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I'd actually prefer Obama over Romney.  Romney will fuck everything up and
then the liberal media will constantly be crowing "look at what that REPUBLICAN
did!" 
  
 The last thing we need is more Bush/McCain/Romney type neocons helping the
media to reinforce the idea that "republican" is a dirty word. 
  
 Ideally I would like to see all true conservatives abandon the GOP and let
it die. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3217506</link><pubDate>Wed, 29 Feb 2012 10:17:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3217506</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3217506@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3217379</link><pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 23:40:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3217379</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3217379@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Well, it looks like Mitt Hussein Romney is well on his way to clinching the
nomination. 
  
 I had high hopes that there'd be a conservative on the ticket this year but
if things continue in this way we'll end up with another Bush/McCain style
dope. 
  
 This country is so fucked. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3198600</link><pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2012 09:26:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3198600</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3198600@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 This is very, very loosely political, but figured it would help lighten the
room here a tad: 
  
 http://breadandcrows.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/helga-rantrunska-a-russian-prost
itute-on-omegle/ 
  
 Russian prostitute's erotic conversation on a popular chat website (Omegle.com).
 Warning... this is decidedly not safe for work, although there is no video
or audio, just words, as the conversation involves a sex-chat. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3197169</link><pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 17:42:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3197169</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3197169@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Nice.  That about sums it up :) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3196872</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 21:10:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3196872</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3196872@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[
This made me larf.  
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gfl6VUNAhlg/TzqPvRLOYbI/AAAAAAAAAxw/I_swRxBOldE/s1600/real+libertarians.jpg

From this site:
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3196728</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 09:59:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3196728</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3196728@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[We probably have to dismantle the media and the education system before we
can dismantle the problems with the government at this point.  These three
institutions work together to keep special interests in power. 
  
 The more I observe the more I think that *most* people feel roughly the same
about the role of government to a certain extent, but have been fooled into
participating in a futile struggle between various mainstream-acceptable factions
that all lead to the same place anyway. 
  
 The few who can see the fnords and know what *real* change would look like,
are quickly tarred with the "lunatic fringe" brush. 
  
 Sorry if this sounds defeatist but we probably are past the point of no return
already.  Unless a lot of people truly learn to think for themselves -- and
that's not likely. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3177101</link><pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 08:40:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3177101</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3177101@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I get the feeling we have suffered through a series of terrible governments
to lead us into our current economic mess, and that it will not improve until
either the people do something somewhat radical, or the government grows up
and starts working towards real solutions instead of special interests. 
  
 Which means it will not really improve.  You'll see temporary improvements,
but I don't think we'll see anything truly substantive that benefits the masses.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3171797</link><pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:44:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3171797</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3171797@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 According to the article above, he's running as... something. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3171715</link><pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:32:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3171715</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3171715@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Loanshark, is the Naked Cowboy still running as an independent?</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3170588</link><pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:40:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3170588</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3170588@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I don't think the Greens are likely to take Barr seriously; the favorite
seems to be Jill Stein. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3170501</link><pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:21:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3170501</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3170501@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Either of those two would be quite a lovely alternative to Osama/Romney. 
  
 And I suppose you've heard by now that Roseanne Barr is running for the Green
Party nomination.  The blather excreted from her mouth so far seems to indicate
that she thinks of herself as an #occupy candidate. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3170442</link><pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:09:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3170442</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3170442@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I mean to say high time. High time indeed. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3170441</link><pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:09:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3170441</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3170441@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 since all the major party and minor party "serious" candidates have problems,
perhaps it's time to look at the unserious candidates.   
    
 Jimmy McMillan (Rent is Too Damn High Party) is running as a Republican(!)
write-in.   
    
 Vermin Supreme is running as a Democrat write-in, wears a boot on his head,
and promises a pony for everyone.   
  
  
 Other "silly" candidates include Rick Santorum: 
  
 http://dcist.com/2012/02/_montgomery_blair_sibley_the.php 
  
 oh, wait a minute. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3168385</link><pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:07:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3168385</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3168385@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Another thing I wanted to add/take away was the Romney part, I think we are stuck with Obama until 2016.  You are right, it took a lot of small incremental steps to get us in this mess, it is going to take a lot of small incremental steps to get us out.  </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3165889</link><pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 22:48:48 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3165889</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3165889@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Obviously there's more to it than that; I could have just as easily called
it the Bush/Obama Depression or even the Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama/Pelosi/Reid/Romney/Gingrich
Depression and the needle wouldn't move enough to notice much of a change.
 The point is that the system is fundamentally broken and the people responsible
for fixing it are the same people who benefit from *not* fixing it. 
  
 This, of course, does not come as news to anyone reading this forum. 
  
 Even the Libertarian Party gets it wrong, by having decent goals but trying
to implement them as a total package instead of simply moving things in the
right direction. 
  
 A populace that is more interested in Reality TV than in Reality will be
easy to lead into bondage.  The few who actually "get it" are readily dismissed
as the lunatic fringe. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3165620</link><pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 21:38:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3165620</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3165620@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I have to agree with you that we have not seen the worst of it yet.   Looking through the blogs and the forums at various places people are too damn ignorant on any subject that is going on in the world.  There is also the "but OUR side is better" crap.  </p>
<p>I will disagree with the Obama/Romney Depression, I think this has been in the works for a lot longer than that. </p>
<p>When people really start hurting they will take anything, and a desperate individual is a dangerous individual.  If they are willing to take anything they will take the worst.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3164279</link><pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:01:28 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3164279</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3164279@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I'd vote for you. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3163459</link><pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 12:07:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3163459</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3163459@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I'm convinced that at this point there will be no real change until people
*really* start hurting.  And as bad as things are now, I don't think we've
seen the worst of the Obama/Romney Depression yet. 
  
 We need to have the shit REALLY hit the fan before people get totally fed
up and say "fuck this, we're bringing back America."  As long as they still
have iPhones and Starbucks they're still too fat dumb and happy to care. 
  
 If you *really* care -- vote "fuck this, we're bringing back America."  Vote
for IGnatius T Foobar. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3149234</link><pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 10:13:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3149234</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3149234@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>seems legit, but i dont think it will reach far enough for it to make a sizeable impact.</p>
<p>like a mosquito landing on an elephant....</p>
<p>-- <br />http://sdkproductions.hopto.org</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3148432</link><pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 05:23:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3148432</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3148432@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>This sounds legal enough to deserve attention:</p>
<p><img src="http://i.imgur.com/Y9gtN.jpg" alt="" width="431" height="720" /> </p>
<p> http://imgur.com/gallery/Y9gtN</p>
<p> Not that I think it will really kick in becaue the sheeple are to many and will probably ignore this anyway. Only media businesses that might notice are the small ones where the nerds and geeks buy, the big players probably won't even care. </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3136126</link><pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2012 11:18:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3136126</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3136126@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 "You betcha." ;) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3134018</link><pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2012 09:26:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3134018</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3134018@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>If I start praising you on websites will people start calling me a "Foobartard?"</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3106960</link><pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 15:21:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3106960</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3106960@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > If elected, I will do all of the following:   
  
 Scratch that.  Make that "*when* I take office."  I *will* be the sitting
president as of the next inauguration day. 
  
 * 2008 proved that you don't have to qualify 
  
 * 2000 proved that you don't have to win the election 
  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3106532</link><pubDate>Tue, 31 Jan 2012 08:38:07 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3106532</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3106532@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Yes we Canada!</p>
<p>http://brianmcalvert.com/canadaparty.html</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3106420</link><pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 23:26:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3106420</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3106420@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Yes, but really, what has the Libertarian party done for you?   
  
 Other than the roads, and the aqueducts? Oh, wait... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3106419</link><pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 23:24:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3106419</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3106419@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Jan 24 2012 9:23pm from Ladyhawke @uncnsrd   
 >Anyone else watching the Candy Land that is the State of the Union?  
 >  
  
 SOTU drinking game: every time Obama says something socialist, drink. Hint:
it's at the end of every sentence. 
  
 (with thanks to Coal Bear) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3106210</link><pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:45:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3106210</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3106210@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Jan 29 2012 03:08:09 PM EST</span> <span>from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div>Wanna know how ignorant most people are? Many years ago, someone once posted here (in seriousness) "libertarians are just republicans who want to use drugs."</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I can not tell you the number of times I have heard that.  I said I wanted to end all the "War Ons"  The War On crime, The War On poverty, the War On drugs, and the War On terror are just ways to funnel taxpayer money to various failed government agencies and will never solve the problem they were intended to solve.  I can't tell if the person was serious or not but someone said the only thing I really cared about was ending the war on drugs so I could have drugs. </p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Jan 29 2012 03:08:09 PM EST</span> <span>from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">If elected, I will do all of the following: <br />
<div>(SNIP)</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>This is old, from the 70s but if you don't want to listen to L(l)ibertarians, then at least listen to the Pants Down Republicans.<br />http://denisboyles.com/PDRepublicans.html</p>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3106120</link><pubDate>Sun, 29 Jan 2012 21:29:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3106120</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3106120@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 (I think the actual percent of concern is 0.1%) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3106051</link><pubDate>Sun, 29 Jan 2012 15:08:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3106051</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3106051@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I've maintained for a long time that most people are libertarians and either
don't know it, won't admit it, or are for whatever reason shackled to the
myth of the two-party system. 
  
 Wanna know how ignorant most people are?  Many years ago, someone once posted
here (in seriousness) "libertarians are just republicans who want to use drugs."

  
 Maybe I *will* vote for myself this year.  It's not as if my vote makes a
difference against the millions of idiots who will vote for Mitt Hussein Romney
and/or Barack Hussein Osama. 
  
 If elected, I will do all of the following: 
  
 * On day one I will sign an executive order excluding the state of Washington
from the union.  By day two the carpet bombing of Redmond will begin. 
  
 * Repeal OsamaCare, the PATRIOT act, and all drug laws that say anything
other than "the label must be accurate." 
  
 * Institute a 15% tarriff on anything made
in China, and a 25% excise tax on anything made by union labor. 
  
 * Declare it legal for any citizen to open fire upon anyone illegally crossing
the border. 
  
 Who's with me? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3105821</link><pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 09:16:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3105821</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3105821@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Re: The libertarian party

"Don't you guys know libertarians are dangerous? They are going to take over the government and leave everyone alone."

(Also belongs in the quote room)

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3105771</link><pubDate>Sat, 28 Jan 2012 02:15:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3105771</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3105771@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Fri Jan 27 2012 05:18:21 PM EST</span> <span>from skpacman @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>The recent remarks from the MPAA in regards to SOPA and PIPA prove the point.</p>
<p>Our government has been turned into a bunch of morons who delight in the fact that their decisions can be bought. Our media giants delight in the fact that they can pay for government decisions. And our regular Joes (literally anyone that lives below the "2%" [or whateverthefuck]) has no say unless we do what we did with the recent blackout protest.</p>
<p>It's not going to get any better until we start seeing people with political and moral views like IG, fleeb, Ford, and dothebart in Congress.</p>
<p>And here's my $0.02:</p>
<p>ART CANCRO FOR PRESIDENT! (then fire everyone in congress)</p>
<p>#ThatIsAll</p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>Never gonna happen, sadly, since those most suited to govern, seldom want to. Which is likely the most sad thing anyone can say about any form of government.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3105721</link><pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 18:16:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3105721</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3105721@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Ok, sure.  Anyone wanna see my birth certificate?   :) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3105699</link><pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 17:18:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3105699</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3105699@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>The recent remarks from the MPAA in regards to SOPA and PIPA prove the point.</p>
<p>Our government has been turned into a bunch of morons who delight in the fact that their decisions can be bought. Our media giants delight in the fact that they can pay for government decisions. And our regular Joes (literally anyone that lives below the "2%" [or whateverthefuck]) has no say unless we do what we did with the recent blackout protest.</p>
<p>It's not going to get any better until we start seeing people with political and moral views like IG, fleeb, Ford, and dothebart in Congress.</p>
<p>And here's my $0.02:</p>
<p>ART CANCRO FOR PRESIDENT! (then fire everyone in congress)</p>
<p>#ThatIsAll</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3105683</link><pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 16:05:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3105683</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3105683@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Melvin (my partner, for those who do not know) has been saying this for a
few years now. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3105681</link><pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 15:54:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3105681</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3105681@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Actually I'm starting to think that IO ERROR is right -- the system is already
broken beyond repair and there's no point in participating in it because we
are not represented. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3105673</link><pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 15:13:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3105673</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3105673@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Yes, but really, what has the Libertarian party done for you? 
  
 "I am the voice of him who crieth in the wildernest..." 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3105662</link><pubDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 14:58:32 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3105662</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3105662@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ There is still the Libertarian party...Perhaps? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3105132</link><pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:58:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3105132</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3105132@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Gawd bless Amurika! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3105118</link><pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:59:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3105118</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3105118@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I suspect that this is going to be an unusually quiet election year in this
room -- everyone seems to hate all of the candidates in every party.  What
a suckfest this is turning out to be.  An endless parade of douchebags who
love to wipe their asses with the Constitution. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3105109</link><pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:25:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3105109</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3105109@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>But you are in luck!  Tonight there is yet another debate in the never ending debate series.  This debate will be sure to depress you and bring you closer to the reality that the republican choices are so bad Obama will probably have a second term.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3104935</link><pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:06:57 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3104935</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3104935@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>That might have been more interesting and less vomit-inducing.</p>
<p>Basically, one big campaign speech, with a smattering of amazingly timed "new laws".</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3104839</link><pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 15:22:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3104839</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3104839@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I didn't see it, either. 
  
 Did he flash anyone?  That would wake up the crowd. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3104659</link><pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 08:23:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3104659</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3104659@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Tue Jan 24 2012 09:23:08 PM EST</span> <span>from Ladyhawke @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>Anyone else watching the Candy Land that is the State of the Union?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Nah, they could just put up a full screen graphic that says "We're F*c&gt;ed!" and I would be happy.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3104295</link><pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 21:23:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3104295</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3104295@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Anyone else watching the Candy Land that is the State of the Union?</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3074076</link><pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2012 12:03:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3074076</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3074076@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 For-profit college, not-for-profit colleges, and Mitt Romney. 
  
 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/01/16/for-profits-vs-not-for-profits/

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3073686</link><pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 15:02:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3073686</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3073686@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Oh. Yeah. Capital controls are coming back. Reinhart and Rogoff have some
insightful commentary/research on this. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3073627</link><pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 12:37:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3073627</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3073627@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Oh, and for those interested in the Louisiana and Italy stories, here are a couple of links:</p>
<p>http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111019/17424316421/louisiana-makes-it-illegal-to-use-cash-secondhand-sales.shtml</p>
<p>http://www.thebitcointrader.com/2012/01/in-italy-its-1984.html --&gt;  Since this one was published, they've already reduced the limit to 1,000E- with a stated move toward a 300E limit, as well as added license plate cameras and cash-sniffing dogs to the borders to prevent cash from trravelling out of Italy.  See the below article for more on this.</p>
<p>http://www.mises.ca/posts/blog/italy-and-capital-controls/</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3073598</link><pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 11:31:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3073598</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3073598@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >LS, can we honestly say that ALL of the EU members are democratic? 
 >
 >You know how I feel about what's happening over there.   But I am
 >just as leery of too much power being held in an organization's hands
 >(like the EU) as I am when it happens inter-governmentally (as in
 >Hungary).

Ok, I see what you're saying. EU democracy is not US democracy. In 
various EU countries they have little problem with banning political 
parties outright (neo-Nazis etc) and legislating restrictions on 
"revisionist history" speech. Thus they have become accustomed to living 
in a reality where there may be no obvious moral high ground on which to 
stand and from which to lob ethical holy hand-grenades at intransigents 
like Hungary.

And yet, and yet, Hungary's suppression of the opposition go beyond the 
"reasonableness" that is presumed by such policies, and certainly goes 
beyond the suppression
of wingnut political parties that advocate 
violence... (if that were their goal, they should start witih Jobbik) If 
there is any legitimacy in attempts to distinguish between "benevolent 
dictator" and "dictator", I think the new Hungary falls on the latter 
side of the fence.

@delong wrote a bit of philosophy that I think is highly relevant here:

http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2010/09/james-scott-legibility-flavius-apion-anoup-the-emperor-justinian-robin-of-locksley-rebecca-daughter-of-mordecai-king.html
-or-
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3073589</link><pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 11:01:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3073589</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3073589@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>This scares the hell out of me, even more than the new cash restrictions in Louisiana and Italy.  Those, while disturbing, were at least *legal*.</p>
<p>http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-01-16/obama-recess-appointments-challenged-by-trade-groups-in-lawsuit.html</p>
<p>Essentially, Obama bypassed the constitutional requirement of congressional review to install 3 National Labor Board appointees and apoint a consumer financial czar.  Even worse, the AD actually *blessed* the action because even though the congress made certain it was in session every 3 days - specifically to avoid recess appts - the fact that this was the purpose of the sessions made them invalid.  Talk about twisted logic!!</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3073553</link><pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 09:27:32 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3073553</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3073553@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>since the EU can forumalte regulations which the members have to translate into local law in a certain time, it can also demand the opposite.</p>
<p>Most probably consequences would be to drop hungary from the EU.</p>
<p>Hungary is a pretty special case, since being an ex-warshaw-pact state it joined the EU while growing a democracy plus getting its economy on speed.</p>
<p>It seems as if many hungarians used debts in euro to purchase houses, cars etc. _before_ hungary attempted to join the euro zone (they still aren't)</p>
<p>Their currency dropped, and many people weren't able to fullfill their interest rates of their credits anymore (which got more expensive by magnitudes)</p>
<p>So you now have a population which is growing pretty poor pretty quick by bleeding money out of the land.</p>
<p>In the outcome, it seems as if many of them don't care that much about democracy anymore, since they eventually blame their personal loss on that kind of economic fail.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3073350</link><pubDate>Mon, 16 Jan 2012 18:20:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3073350</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3073350@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>LS, can we honestly say that ALL of the EU members are democratic?</p>
<p>You know how I feel about what's happening over there.  But I am just as leery of too much power being held in an organization's hands (like the EU) as I am when it happens inter-governmentally (as in Hungary).</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3073344</link><pubDate>Mon, 16 Jan 2012 18:02:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3073344</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3073344@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Jan 16 2012 5:44pm from Ladyhawke @uncnsrd   
 >Not sure how I feel about the EU determining the governmental style  
 >of a soverign nation.  But, it will be interesting to see what they  
 >do.   
  
 This is not a question of style nor of sovereignty. Hungary's departure from
democratic norms is not a matter of style, but is one of substance; and Hungary
made certain agreements when it decided to join the EU. The EU is supposed
to be a union of democracies. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3073336</link><pubDate>Mon, 16 Jan 2012 17:44:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3073336</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3073336@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Not sure how I feel about the EU determining the governmental style of a soverign nation.  But, it will be interesting to see what they do.</p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Thu Jan 12 2012 12:44:27 PM EST</span> <span>from LoanShark @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content"><tt><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/13/world/europe/european-union-gives-hungary-an-ultimatum.html?_r=2&amp;pagewanted=all" target="webcit01">http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/13/world/europe/european-union-gives-hungary-an-ultimatum.html?_r=2&amp;pagewanted=all</a></tt><br /> <tt></tt><br /> <tt>BUDAPEST — Faced with what critics say is an alarming drift away from </tt><br /> <tt>democracy by one of its members, the European Union gave the Hungarian </tt><br /> <tt>government a final warning Wednesday that it would face the start of </tt><br /> <tt>formal legal action by next Tuesday unless it modified a series of </tt><br /> <tt>measures that threaten the balance of power in the country.</tt><br /> </div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3073158</link><pubDate>Mon, 16 Jan 2012 12:26:57 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3073158</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3073158@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 As is so often the case, there's only one correct answer to the question
as you frame it: "it depends."   
  
  
 But I think the link above was trying to answer a different question. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3073106</link><pubDate>Mon, 16 Jan 2012 10:45:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3073106</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3073106@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Hmm ... he uses a lot of pretty words but I think he misses something. 
  
 The entire piece runs with the assumption that higher education has an intrinsic
value. 
  
 At stake right now is the question of whether its value even begins to approach
its cost.  I don't think anyone in academia is going to be able to objectively
answer that question.  This is equally as foolish as listening to the head
of the teachers' union talk about whether it's a good idea to switch to a
merit-based system for hiring and firing public school teachers.  (I was both
amused and outraged that the newsbots gave that bonehead even a moment of
airtime.) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3072029</link><pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2012 15:23:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3072029</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3072029@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[http://rortybomb.wordpress.com/2012/01/12/a-new-metaphor-for-student-debt-burdens-faculty-taxes/

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3071466</link><pubDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2012 12:44:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3071466</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3071466@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/13/world/europe/european-union-gives-hungary-an-ultimatum.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all

BUDAPEST — Faced with what critics say is an alarming drift away from 
democracy by one of its members, the European Union gave the Hungarian 
government a final warning Wednesday that it would face the start of 
formal legal action by next Tuesday unless it modified a series of 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3071017</link><pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 16:26:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3071017</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3071017@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ Like IG, by the time I was a senior in high school, I knew what I wantd to
study: computers.  Apart from IG, though, not only did I go on to study computers
in college, but then ended up in a career in the compter industry after graduating.

  
 I may be one of the exceptions to the rule, though.  :P 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3070954</link><pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 14:28:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3070954</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3070954@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[*cough*

"One thing I should like to say on this day which may be memorable for 
others as well as for us Germans: In the course of my life I have very 
often been a prophet, and have usually been ridiculed for it.

"During the time of my struggle for power it was in the first instance 
the Jewish race which only received my prophecies with laughter when I 
said that I would one day take over the leadership of the State, and 
with it that of the whole nation, and that I would then among many other 
things settle the Jewish problem. Their laughter was uproarious, but I 
think that for some time now they have been laughing on the other side 
of their face.

"Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish 
financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations 
once more into a world war, then the result will not be the 
Bolshevization of the earth, and thus
the victory of Jewry, but the 
annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe!"

--Adolf Hitler, Speech of January 30, 1939

*cough*

Yes, anyone familiar with the history of Europe should be afraid right 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3070848</link><pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 11:32:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3070848</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3070848@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Hmm... when I went to college, I aimed for a music degree rather than computers
(although I wound up working in computers instead).  I figured the music degree
was a little harder, and that I could work with computers regardless of my
education. 
  
 All of that turned out to be true. Computers come to me more easily than
music, and I have been able to maintain a career as a software engineer without
a formal education on the topic. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3070155</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 22:34:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3070155</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3070155@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I think what's most important is for high schoolers approaching graduation
to have a *plan* for what they want to do.  A 17-18 year old who has strong
convictions about his desired vocation should be able to select a college
or trade school, finish the program, and head directly into that vocation.
 Naturally that doesn't include everyone.  Show me a freshman whose major
is "undeclared" and I'll show you a waste of tens of thousands of dollars.

  
 Of course, I could be completely off on this.  I knew exactly what I wanted
to do as I completed high school; I went directly into a university program
for my career of choice, and then promptly threw it all away upon entering
the workforce and did something completely different.  On the other hand,
I achieved a lot of personal growth during those years outside of the classroom,
so disregard all of this I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3070118</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 19:00:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3070118</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3070118@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[http://www.forbes.com/2011/06/10/college-price-tuition-discrimination.html

How Colleges Discriminate With Price, And Why They Must Stop
George Waldner, 06.10.11, 12:45 PM EDT
It's grossly unfair to students and their parents.

"... A secret about college and university pricing is that the sticker price at 95% of all private institutions 
is an arbitrary number... York College of Pennsylvania does things differently. First, we don't operate on a 
high-tuition and high-discount model. Expensive schools charge $30,000 to $40,000 a year for tuition and 
discount as much as 50%. We charge just over $14,000 a year, and our discount rate is roughly 14%. What you see 
is what you will pay."

Ok, a little bit of self-promotion, but valid points raised, others have noted that tuition discounting is at 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3070117</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 18:54:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3070117</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3070117@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[So, here's a less flattering view of the status quo:

"One long-term study by the Department of Education found that students with high test scores but low-income 
parents were less likely to complete college than students with low scores but affluent parents — loosely 
speaking, that smart poor kids are less likely than dumb rich kids to get a degree."

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3070114</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 18:47:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3070114</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3070114@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Well there you go. ;) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3070098</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 17:50:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3070098</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3070098@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Yeah, I didn't take LS seriously on the points that seemed obviously silly
to me, just the bit about service. 
  
 Although, in our army, during BASIC training, you may have live rounds fired
over you.  That happened during my training, at least... they used tracer
rounds, so you could see them (and they told us to notice the tracer rounds,
in case we didn't believe them). 
  
 It didn't seem like a big deal to me at the time, but I suppose I should
have reflected a little harder on that experience. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3070070</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 17:26:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3070070</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3070070@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Mon Jan 09 2012 12:52:08 EST</span> <span>from fleeb @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />I'd take it seriously. <br /><br />I think some people need something more than just a year to decide whether or not they're ready for college. Something like civil service (military service or something analogous) would help fulfill a peculiar need that we have in the United States for transitioning people from high school to college or trade school. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Fleeb - I was referring to LS's saying that they need military service and being fired at with live rounds. Most of the kids I went to college with did either 2 service years (girls) or 3 years in the army (boys). While I think it's miserable and tragic that we need to have a draft, I think that the kids coming off 3 years of army service or 2 years of national service are a lot better prepared to handle college. </p>
<p>I think the average high school graduate needs at least one year of something where you don't sit in a classroom all day before they decide whether they're best off going to college or not.</p>
<p>I think if I were raising a kid in the US, I'd make them take a year and work or volunteer for greenpeace or something before I'd let them start college. And if my son gets an army exemption (which he might b/c of his eye), I think I'll encourage him to take at least a year before college anyway.</p>
<p>I made a lousy decision when I was 16 (applying for colleges), and now I'm 33, in the wrong field, even though I knew from the beginning what I wanted to do, and I don't know a good way to get back where I want to go.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3070038</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 15:01:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3070038</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3070038@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>in .de we have had military &amp; civilan services (like in elderly resorts or hospital) which were just stopped for a migration to a total professional army.</p>
<p>so while the army was more about in the mood, ok no more making people dig through the mud that don't want to, we' re fine with this...</p>
<p>the civilian services were a little afraid of not being able to fullfill their jobs, so a voluntary social year was created.</p>
<p>The transition seems to have worked well,</p>
<p>I think its a good thing to have the young do that year to develop their social skills for highschool and so on.</p>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3069995</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 12:52:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3069995</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3069995@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I'd take it seriously. 
  
 I think some people need something more than just a year to decide whether
or not they're ready for college.  Something like civil service (military
service or something analogous) would help fulfill a peculiar need that we
have in the United States for transitioning people from high school to college
or trade school. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3069845</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 06:58:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3069845</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3069845@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Can't tell if you're joking or trolling.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3069829</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 05:47:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3069829</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3069829@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 The gap year isn't enough of itself. Has to consist of basic training and
maybe being shot at with live rounds.   
  
  
 I would say this is pretty much a necessary condition for college to seem
a little less of a challenge and a little more desirable for some who were
not otherwise inclined to take it seriously. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3069783</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 03:13:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3069783</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3069783@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I think that because of how college is perceived, most 18-year-olds have no idea whether college is for them or not. </p>
<p>College counseling in high schools needs to be way different. </p>
<p>It's not even just a matter of intelligence. I don't think that low IQ is the reason I failed miserably at college and took 6 years to finish.</p>
<p>If it were, I probably wouldn't have kept a 90+ average in grad school. </p>
<p>I simply wasn't ready for college, and I wsn't mentally stable enough for it. I think countries that have gap year (army or national service) do their kids a great service.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3069715</link><pubDate>Sun, 08 Jan 2012 16:45:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3069715</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3069715@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Loanshark,</p>
<p>Not sure that I agree that the only person who can tell whether college is a good choice for a person is that person himself, but I essentially agree with most of what you said.</p>
<p>It's been my experience that in most cases people have a tendancy to assign a lower value to things they receive for free.  Even a nominal fee can increase the value of something in most people's minds.  That said - I also have to agree with fleebs that the cost of college today is completely out of control (private secondary school, as well), not only from the perspective of availability and affordability - but even from the perspective of value proportionality.</p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sat Jan 07 2012 11:52:26 AM EST</span> <span>from LoanShark @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />Ultimately, there are two types of people: those who should go to college, and those who shouldn't. And at the end of the day, there is only one person who knows which category a student falls into: the student himself. And unfortunately, the only way that we have figured out how to extract an honest answer to that question from the student is to threaten to stick him with the bill. <br /><br /></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3069613</link><pubDate>Sun, 08 Jan 2012 08:32:45 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3069613</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3069613@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Thu Jan 05 2012 10:13:44 AM EST</span> <span>from LoanShark @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />Oh I hate the Romans. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order  ... what <em>have</em> the Romans done for <em>us</em>?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3069513</link><pubDate>Sat, 07 Jan 2012 17:07:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3069513</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3069513@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Yeah, I have a soft spot for education, admittedly. 
  
 But then, I also tend to believe that you can get an education without having
to go through college or trade schools.  If you are determined enough, you
can probably learn whatever you want to learn about any topic you want, enough
to garner the attention of others who also work in your targetted field. 
  
 It's just a tad easier with structured lessons. 
  
 So, if you're poor, and you want to pull yourself out of the poor cycle,
you'll have to work a little harder than the son of a middle-class guy who
had a few advantages.  Life isn't exactly fair, but it is what it is. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3069448</link><pubDate>Sat, 07 Jan 2012 11:52:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3069448</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3069448@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >whatever other college you choose.  If we instead give that money to  
   
 >other people so that *they* can go to college, then we would not be    
 
 >able to give it to you....and you would likely either have to attend   
  
 >whatever school the state was willing to pay for or work your way      
 >through."       
      
 If her son had difficulty comprehending this sort of thing, then he was in
good company, or at least historically notable company: Karl Marx, Joseph
Stalin...     
      
 Let me start by saying that I agree with your conclusion, Ladyhawke, but
not entirely the process by which it was arrived. So at the risk of being
a pedantic twit, let me see if I can put the discussion on a slightly different
footing.     
      
 The leftest of leftists, like the son in this case it seems, don't have a
problem with the redistribution of wealth; they point out that public goods
can be useful and even moral. They might point out that we should invest in
our own future by providing education to all. They might ignore any argument
that is based merely on an absolutist interpretation of property rights or
the idea that redistribution of wealth is universally bad.     
      
 And why not? Clearly education is a public good, and there is broad consensus
across all political parties that we should provide education as a public
good at least through the K-12 level. Why should college be any different?
    
      
 Well, because college *is* different. College is in many respect the first
school of hard knocks for smart high school graduates, the first introduction
to what real life is all about. Not everyone is cut out for college.     
      
 But nearly anybody who isn't emotionally disturbed or faced with a severely
unstable family situation can graduate high school.
The mentally retarded can graduate high school.     
      
 Unlike in Soviet Russia, where The Party finds you, in America you have to
find your own party. In this country there is a broad bipartisan consensus
that attempting to provide a blanket guarantee of "the good life" for everyone
is neither desirable nor feasible. In this country we value personal responsibility.
In this country we value economic transactions that give people "skin in the
game" and incentives. Employees of Fidelity must hold Fidelity stock--in order
that they not make decisions that compromise the company's integrity. College
students should also have "skin in the game"--because college is dreadfully
expensive, and those students who are going to not study but mess around and
party or whatever should do so on their own nickel rather than wasting the
time and energy and resources of their parents or society at large.
    
    
    
 Ultimately, there are two types of people: those who should go to college,
and those who shouldn't. And at the end of the day, there is only one person
who knows which category a student falls into: the student himself. And unfortunately,
the only way that we have figured out how to extract an honest answer to that
question from the student is to threaten to stick him with the bill.   
  
  
 Of course, none of this is to say that the cost of college hasn't been rising
beyond all reasonable sanity... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3068971</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Jan 2012 22:38:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3068971</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3068971@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 In other news, I saw a video suggesting that the British queen has become
so old that her pussy is now haunted: 
  
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_ESgHRI5HI 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3068698</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Jan 2012 11:12:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3068698</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3068698@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Thu Jan 05 2012 11:09:16 EST</span> <span>from dothebart @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>these days you even are called an antisemit if you say that some jew didn't properly use toilet paper.</p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>Why would you care how someone used toilet paper, you antisemite?!</p></body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3068697</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Jan 2012 11:09:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3068697</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3068697@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>these days you even are called an antisemit if you say that some jew didn't properly use toilet paper.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3068681</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Jan 2012 10:28:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3068681</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3068681@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Plus those evil Zionists stole the land from the Palestinians!</p>
<p>(never mind that people who say that have an assumption that there was a settled 'Palestinian' land and the Jews came in en masse and took it away...)</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3068678</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Jan 2012 10:13:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3068678</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3068678@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Oh I hate the Romans. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3068519</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 21:59:38 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3068519</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3068519@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 a) is pretty much a falsehood anyway. 
  
 My grandfather, an old-skool Italian, used to think that way.  He didn't
seem to appreciate it when I told him that Jesus was crucified by the Romans.
 You know -- Rome, ITALY ?   :) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3068502</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 20:58:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3068502</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3068502@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > I still don't understand anti-semitism.  Why is it so cool to hate   
 >Jews?   
  
 a) They killed the baby jebus! 
  
 b) Banks were started by Jews. Blame the banks, blame the Jews. 
  
 c) They're DIFFERENT than we are. 
  
 d) We don't understand their weirdness, so we must hate. 
  
  
 a) & b) are arguments specific to the Jews; c) & d) are arguments typical
of discrimination, hatred, and bigotry in general. 
  
 Anti-Hatred*Star 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3068256</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 09:46:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3068256</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3068256@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Well, if you are a people often associated with an industry that was responsible
for bringing the economy down in your particular area, you might find yourself
targetted for some unpleasantries. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3068244</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 09:18:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3068244</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3068244@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Anti-semitism is on the rise around the Christian world, particularly  
 >in Europe. Even the UK is getting bad.   
  
 I still don't understand anti-semitism.  Why is it so cool to hate Jews?

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3068243</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 09:17:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3068243</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3068243@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Increasingly, we need to emphasize the utility of trade schools.  They
 
 >are less expensive, and do a better job training people for certain   
 >kinds of work.   
  
 This is the right idea and it's finding a voice in more than a few places.
 I happen to think Camille Paglia says it best (as I mentioned before ...
she's my favorite liberal -- she *thinks* and also makes others think instead
of just spouting communist dogma) when she calls it the "revalorization of
the trades" 
  
 Example: [ http://chronicle.com/article/Revalorizing-the-Trades/124130/ ]

  
 I tend to go a step further and suggest that we should bring out a strong
program of apprenticeship for a wide variety of vocations; it would probably
serve many people better than the university system which tends to bring out
that "elitist intellectual snobbery" that fleeb talked about earlier. 
  
 Aside from a large amount of
personal growth which I achieved outside the classroom, I really don't give
my college education any credit for where I am today.  I'm not sure I'd do
it again if I had the chance, which is good because my alma mater has jacked
its prices up so high that I wouldn't be able to afford it today anyway. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3068204</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 07:51:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3068204</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3068204@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Iran is its own disaster waiting in the wings, though if this is true, it indicates that America isn't totally oblivious.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.whiteoutpress.com/articles/q12012/us-troops-going-to-israel483/">http://www.whiteoutpress.com/articles/q12012/us-troops-going-to-israel483/</a> </p>
<p>Anti-semitism is on the rise around the Christian world, particularly in Europe. Even the UK is getting bad.</p>
<p>The situation in the US is still tolerable, but it's not going in a good direction. The ways laws are designed and such makes it unlikely that there would be actual state-sponsored antisemitism in the US, but Klansmen and their ilk can do a hell of a lot of damage.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3068043</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 21:55:03 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3068043</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3068043@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>One of the scariest parts of this situation for me is how under the radar this is - and how apathetic we are toward it.  Not just Jews, but most of the people with whom I've brought it up.  And these are not generally apathetic people, particularly in the realm of world events and politics.  I get similar reactions regarding the situation in Iran.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3067968</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 17:21:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3067968</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3067968@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 the parallels to the 20s are there. global economic slump, banking crises
in Austria [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creditanstalt ], borrowing in foreign
currencies... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3067951</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 16:33:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3067951</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3067951@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>And it's the late 1920's again. Please please let the Jews there see the writing on the wall and LEAVE. Israel is waiting for them. With paprika ;)</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3067881</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 13:36:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3067881</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3067881@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[        
 More on the evolving Hungary situation:       
        
 http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/02/the-unconstitutional-constitution/
      
      
    
    
 crackdown on non-state recognized religion. Seems that every major non-Judeo-Christian
religion has lost its legal recognition in the country now known as Hungary
including Baha'i, Islam, Buddhism, etc. 330 denominations have lost their
status. The Jews didn't do so well either. One synagogue from each of the
Conservative, Liberal, and Orthodox branches has held onto legal recognition.
All others have lost their status, transforming Judaism into some captive
audience of the state.   
  
  
 This is in addition to the undemocratic reforms mentioned previously in this
room. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3066911</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Jan 2012 14:13:47 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3066911</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3066911@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[One of the UCals also has a similiar program; however, they don't offer a
certificate. Yale & MIT do. 
  
 @fleeb, it's not just the Universities that are farked in terms of educating
folk, it's the primary & secondary schools, as well. Kids today are *not*
being taught how to learn but rather simply how to recite rogue memorization
of facts. What good are facts when one doesn't know what to do with them?
o_O 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3066832</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Jan 2012 11:41:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3066832</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3066832@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Apparently Yale has a similar program planned. If you could get a certificate of acheivement from a major university based on online performance...</p>
<p>In Israel, we have the open university.</p>
<p>You don't have to be accepted.</p>
<p>You can take any course as long as it doesn't have a prerequisite.</p>
<p>You pay per course - the price per course is something like $500 and includes course materials. Most people take 1-2 courses per semester, and some courses are offered on summer semester, so you're spending around $1500-2500 per year, and you can still work full-time.</p>
<p>You can learn from the book, online, or in select locations.</p>
<p>Courses have exercises that must be handed in to get a grade. There are exams for some  courses. You can write exams at a number of locations - it's unlikely that you'd have to drive more than an hour to find an exam location.</p>
<p>If you complete all the courses needed for a degree, you get the degree, even if it took you 20 years.</p>
<p>The courses are rigorous, and a degree from the Open University signals potential employers that the person is very motivated and wasn't handed anything on a silver platter. </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3066822</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Jan 2012 11:16:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3066822</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3066822@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Now this really could be a game changer, TriL.  Both in terms of educational access - and market affect.  It'll be fascinating to see how it plays out.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3066623</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Jan 2012 03:48:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3066623</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3066623@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmarshallcrotty/2011/12/21/m-i-t-game-changer-free-online-education-for-all/</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3066530</link><pubDate>Sat, 31 Dec 2011 20:48:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3066530</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3066530@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 My grandfather would probably hate to know I feel this way, but I think colleges
are overrated these days. 
  
 The whole thing with the books is a veritable scam.  The way colleges treat
students is also something of a scam, as most of them don't seem to give a
damn about whether or not they actually manage to teach anything, compared
to the research they'd rather be doing. 
  
 Universities are ivory towers for elitist intellectual snobbery that victimizes
students, savaging them out of monies such that the student starts their professional
life in debt with nothing but a sheet of paper that increasingly has no meaning.

  
 I have this weird feeling that a disrupting change is due in education...
something that will correct where colleges have gone wrong, while helping
industry gain the intellectual workforce they need, at a relatively low cost.
And I feel the internet will be a major component of this change somehow.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3066440</link><pubDate>Sat, 31 Dec 2011 16:43:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3066440</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3066440@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>What's the new initiative, Tril?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3066430</link><pubDate>Sat, 31 Dec 2011 16:21:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3066430</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3066430@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>the whole college thing has me thinking in a different direction. I say boycott. If, en masse, 18-year-olds decide that they're not willing to pay more than (for the sake of argument) $15K per year for college, and enough of them get on board, then yes, some people aren't going to go to college, but the colleges are also going to find ways to make it more affordable. </p>
<p>Yes, I get that there aren't that many places at Cooper Union and the military academies and there are only so many football scholarships, but if the "Occupy" movement makes a commitment not to spend more than a cap, they will take the floor out from under the colleges and someone will find a way to make it happen. It may mean a lot less professors, much larger lecture halls, more online/self-study learning and a lot less extras on campus, but I believe it can be done. </p>
<p>And if not, there's always the new initiative by MIT.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3066379</link><pubDate>Sat, 31 Dec 2011 13:08:32 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3066379</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3066379@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Fleeb, I don't know that I agree with this assumption.  As a Jr in HS, I'd already been working for several years and had a good sense of what spending vs saving meant - and so did many of my friends.  Granted, I didn't know how much it cost to run a *household* - but I certainly understood that if I spent the money I had on X, then it would not be available for Y.  I also understood that money was not unlimited and that if I wanted to buy something, then there was a labor cost *to me* associated with obtaining it - and that if I wrecked it, that there would be a cost *to me* associated with replacing it.  </p>
<p>What is troubling to me is that the generation of kids now in HS (and those just out of college, like my youngest sib) do *not* seem to understand these things.  They honestly do not seem to comprehend that while society by it's nature should assist those less fortunate - that this is a gesture of kind will and meant for necessesities; it's not something to which they are entitled, much less for non-necessities. </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sat Dec 31 2011 07:38:39 AM EST</span> <span>from fleeb @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />A young adult who is just going to college doesn't know how much this 'civilized' life we lead actually costs. You simply do not know until you actually have to do it yourself. For young adults, that often doesn't actually happen until your late twenties, possibly your thirties (that is, when you no longer have to ask for help from your parents occasionally, and you're settled into your career). <br /><br />So, yeah, of course the high school junior with straight A's has difficulty understanding how it couldn't happen. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3066286</link><pubDate>Sat, 31 Dec 2011 09:38:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3066286</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3066286@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 Yeah, I went to one of the cheapest universities I could find, and don't
regret it one bit. (Yet.)   
    
 Universities are competing for prestige... the model at the top schools is
to price your service as high as possible, admit only the best kids, and then
discount as much as 50% based on merit.   
  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3066240</link><pubDate>Sat, 31 Dec 2011 07:38:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3066240</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3066240@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 A young adult who is just going to college doesn't know how much this 'civilized'
life we lead actually costs.  You simply do not know until you actually have
to do it yourself.  For young adults, that often doesn't actually happen until
your late twenties, possibly your thirties (that is, when you no longer have
to ask for help from your parents occasionally, and you're settled into your
career). 
  
 So, yeah, of course the high school junior with straight A's has difficulty
understanding how it couldn't happen. 
  
 Now, why are colleges so expensive?  The cost to go to college has risen
steadily over the past several years, to the point where fewer people may
afford to go anymore.  As bright as my niece is, I have no idea how she will
manage to go to college... or at this point, if. 
  
 Increasingly, we need to emphasize the utility of trade schools.  They are
less expensive, and do a better job training people for certain kinds of work.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3066031</link><pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2011 18:52:19 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3066031</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3066031@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 The Occupy types need to focus a bit less (or not at all) on the "give me
a handout" thing, and more on the "how do we best create jobs" thing. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3065985</link><pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2011 16:29:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3065985</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3065985@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>We've gone so far down the entitlement lane now that even moderate "progressives" find themselves confused - and fewer and fewer seem to understand the cause and effect matrix.</p>
<p>Not sure if I mentioned this before, but a bit ago, my next door neighbor and her son got caught in the "occupy salem" demonstration.  At dinner that night, he wanted to know why people were so mean and not wanting to help them (they wanted the city to give subsidies for college) and positited that if everyone chipped in than everyone should be able to go.</p>
<p>My middle-class neighbor spent some time trying to explain, and then finally said something to the effect of:  "you know all those vacations and toys we've not been able to get for you because we 'couldn't afford' them - and all the times we couldn't make your plays and games because we were working?  The reason was so that we could save for you to be able to go to an ivy league school - or whatever other college you choose.  If we instead give that money to other people so that *they* can go to college, then we would not be able to give it to you....and you would likely either have to attend whatever school the state was willing to pay for or work your way through."</p>
<p>Her son - a high school junior with straight A's genuinely had difficulty comprehending why both could not happen.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3065976</link><pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:56:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3065976</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3065976@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 A deaf lady wanted me to be her vice-chair in this precinct for the Democratic
Party.  She keeps thinking I'm a Democrat, but I've told her many times that
I identify as independant (and that I do not particularly like either party).

  
 She'd be shocked if she knew the full extent of my views.  To her, it isn't
that big a deal to force condominium associations to pay for all the condominiums
to have special equipment installed for deaf people so that they can see when
the fire alarms go off (when the condominiums already have something in place
for that, but I guess she doesn't seem to think they are good enough).  I'm
not keen on the idea, though, as I don't really want to pay even more in condo
fees because of something like that. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3064420</link><pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2011 11:00:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3064420</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3064420@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 We love drawing lines around geographic locations and saying, "That's a country."

  
 For some cultures, however, that idea just seems bizarre. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3064388</link><pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2011 10:01:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3064388</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3064388@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >I guess the Iraq and its peoples would be better of to become a  
 >looseley couplet union of at least 3 states.   
  
 Funny you should mention that.  Wolf Blitzer (of the Commie News Network)
just wrote an article saying almost the same thing: 
  
 http://situationroom.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/26/blitzer-iraq-could-break-apart/

  
 Of course, "become a loosely coupled union" is optimistic.  The more likely
scenario is that without foreign oversight, it will simply degrade into civil
war.  One might even argue that if these people can't coexist without the
oversight of either a brutal dictatorship or a foreign military presence,
then perhaps the loose smattering of smaller ethnic-states is in fact the
natural order of things there. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3063807</link><pubDate>Sun, 25 Dec 2011 15:02:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3063807</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3063807@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>my apologies. I wanted to be sure that everyone could see the image after my take on it.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3063803</link><pubDate>Sun, 25 Dec 2011 14:44:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3063803</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3063803@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 At this point a reminder is in order: the standard of netequitte on Uncensored
is to refrain from excessive "pull quoting" 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3063792</link><pubDate>Sun, 25 Dec 2011 14:01:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3063792</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3063792@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>It looks like an advertisement for General Mills. Look at it - The Cinnamon Toast Crunch and Apple Cinnamon Cheerios are left alone!</p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Dec 25 2011 10:02:51 EST</span> <span>from dothebart @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>well, yes Iraq. I'd basicaly compare it to yougoslavia, a state where ethnical groups have been combined, and one oppressed the other.</p>
<p>I guess the Iraq and its peoples would be better of to become a looseley couplet union of at least 3 states.</p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Fri Dec 23 2011 14:07:01 EST</span><span>from fleeb @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />Yes... we are overstretched. Which is why I didn't want us messing around in the in the first place.</div>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"> </div>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"> </div>
</blockquote>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">whew fleeb, this one is so true. should better belong into health and wellness?</div>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">But the smacks frog pushing shugar... remindet me of my last attempt to buy these. I simply can't keep myself from eating much more than I would require.</div>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">if you have a cereals mix with oatmeal plus lots of other stuff in it, and a mere 5% of these in the mix it might be ok.</div>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">but else this is a real killer, and comparing it to H is definitely justified.</div>
<blockquote>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />On a completely different topic, though: <br /><br /><img src="http://www.popaganda.com/media/blogs/billboards/cereal%20boxes%20on%20shelf%20LA%20SM.JPG" alt="" /><a href="http://www.popaganda.com/media/blogs/billboards/cereal%20boxes%20on%20shelf%20LA%20SM.JPG" target="webcit01">http://www.popaganda.com/media/blogs/billboards/cereal%20boxes%20on%20shelf%20LA%20SM.JPG</a> <br /><br />Subversive art, with a decidedly anti-corporate bend to it.</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3063767</link><pubDate>Sun, 25 Dec 2011 12:19:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3063767</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3063767@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 If we spent a little more time fixing our domestic issues and less time fucking
with other countries, we would probably be much better off. 
  
 But then, I've held a rather isolationist perspective for a long time now.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3063725</link><pubDate>Sun, 25 Dec 2011 10:02:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3063725</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3063725@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>well, yes Iraq. I'd basicaly compare it to yougoslavia, a state where ethnical groups have been combined, and one oppressed the other.</p>
<p>I guess the Iraq and its peoples would be better of to become a looseley couplet union of at least 3 states.</p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Fri Dec 23 2011 14:07:01 EST</span><span>from fleeb @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />Yes... we are overstretched. Which is why I didn't want us messing around in the in the first place.</div>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"> </div>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"> </div>
</blockquote>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">whew fleeb, this one is so true. should better belong into health and wellness?</div>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">But the smacks frog pushing shugar... remindet me of my last attempt to buy these. I simply can't keep myself from eating much more than I would require.</div>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">if you have a cereals mix with oatmeal plus lots of other stuff in it, and a mere 5% of these in the mix it might be ok.</div>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">but else this is a real killer, and comparing it to H is definitely justified.</div>
<blockquote>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />On a completely different topic, though: <br /><br /><img src="http://www.popaganda.com/media/blogs/billboards/cereal%20boxes%20on%20shelf%20LA%20SM.JPG" alt="" />http://www.popaganda.com/media/blogs/billboards/cereal%20boxes%20on%20shelf%20LA%20SM.JPG <br /><br />Subversive art, with a decidedly anti-corporate bend to it.</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3063040</link><pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:07:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3063040</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3063040@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Yes... we are overstretched.  Which is why I didn't want us messing around
in the in the first place. 
  
 On a completely different topic, though: 
  
 http://www.popaganda.com/media/blogs/billboards/cereal%20boxes%20on%20shelf%20
LA%20SM.JPG 
  
 Subversive art, with a decidedly anti-corporate bend to it. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3063010</link><pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 13:35:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3063010</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3063010@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Very true. And you know, we are overstretched. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3063006</link><pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 13:27:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3063006</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3063006@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Japan wasn't fighting itself when we were there. Or really us much at that
point. They just wanted to move forward. I don't get that feeling in Iraq..
Or anywhere else we're committed at the moment. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3062504</link><pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:09:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3062504</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3062504@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 We sure as hell didn't build a Japan out there. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3062481</link><pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2011 16:40:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3062481</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3062481@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[(That should say "Talks" not "His Talks" ... I had started writing something
about history but didn't erase it completely) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3062332</link><pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2011 14:08:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3062332</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3062332@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >But there's lots of "alerts" about the withdrawal of the final US  
 >troops from Iraq....  
  
 And little if any mention has been made of the fact that the withdrawal is
happening because of the expiration of our agreement with the Iraqi government
to remain there.  His Talks to continue the occupation fell apart so we HAD
to leave. 
  
 Personally I'm just happy we're getting out; it's not doing anything good
for us. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3061200</link><pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:31:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3061200</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3061200@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>The citizens of the United States have been gladly giving up their freedoms in the name of safety and or convenience for a long time now.  I am sure it is happening all over the world.  Maybe those guys over on Prison Planet are only mildly crazy conspiracy nuts.</p>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3061081</link><pubDate>Tue, 20 Dec 2011 08:00:07 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3061081</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3061081@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Sadly, I believe it's been some time since there has been freedome for Jews (or Muslims for that matter) in Hungry.</p>
<p>But, I do agree that there is relativity and I certainly agree that freedom is in trouble around the world with great impact on Israel - and the US, whether we like to admit it or not.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3060859</link><pubDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2011 17:58:07 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3060859</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3060859@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Hungary is a canary of a different color, but certainly singing at    
    
 I tend to see these canaries as being of the same species if not precisely
the same shade. The death of Israel would mean the death of freedom for the
Jews...   
  
  
 The recently deceased freedom in Hungary may mean... perhaps the same thing.
For the same people. Think about it. Hungary has written Xtianity into their
constitution, and... purged their Christian churches of any doctrines that
disagree with the state-sanctioned version. It appears they are literally
going around forcing Nonconformists to dissolve their congregations. 
  
 In a particular part of the world that has not always been friendly towards
the Jews. 
  
 Brad DeLong on the Greek concept of democracy and the original defition of
freedom: 
  
 "...in Herodotus's Histories, where Demaratus tells Xerxes that Persia will
have a difficult time
conquering Greece. Why? Because the Greeks are not slaves but free men, and
will not easily submit and will fight hard. Why will they fight hard? Because
they value being free and not being slaves very much. How will they be able
to fight hard and so keep their freedom? Because free men are slaves to a
particular master: the [democratic] laws that the boulos and demos prescribe.
Indeed, men who do not willingly become slaves to the law don't stay free
men for long." 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3060812</link><pubDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2011 17:08:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3060812</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3060812@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>its been like that for a year.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3060767</link><pubDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2011 15:44:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3060767</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3060767@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Hungary is a canary of a different color, but certainly singing at full throat, I agree.  And yet, there's very little coverage of it.  Haven't seen much on Kim Jong Il's death either.</p>
<p>But there's lots of "alerts" about the withdrawal of the final US troops from Iraq....</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3060663</link><pubDate>Mon, 19 Dec 2011 12:17:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3060663</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3060663@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 *yawn* 
  
 The canary in the coal mine is Hungary. How many more countries will fall
to dictatorship before the current crisis is done? 
  
 http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/19/hungarys-constitutional-revolution/

  
 This is not hyperbole: Hungary is now a dictatorship. Granted, out of Hungary's
3 political parties, if any of the 3 were to grab absolute power, this would
be the least worst. But still: they just grabbed absolute power. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3059623</link><pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2011 18:42:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3059623</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3059623@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Thu Dec 15 2011 04:36:32 PM EST</span> <span>from triLcat @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>The war's barely begun. Israel is a test case. If the west allows Israel to fall, then Radical Islam will take over them very shortly thereafter.</p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Oh come on, it isn't like radical islam has been at war with the west for hundreds of years... he said sarcastically.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3059440</link><pubDate>Fri, 16 Dec 2011 10:46:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3059440</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3059440@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>On the other hand, fleeb, had we been willing to entertain this argument back during WWII, millions of lives might have been saved. </p>
<p>Most arguments can go both ways.  In this case, however, I agree with Tril.  Israel's a canary in the coal mine.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3059220</link><pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 23:47:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3059220</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3059220@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Wait a minute, I've heard this argument before.  It got us into a war that
we lost, badly.  Cost a lot of lives, and caused a generation of veterans
to be treated shamefully. 
  
 Except back then, the enemy was 'communism'. 
  
 It's amazing what you can justify in the name of The Domino Effect. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3059094</link><pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 16:36:32 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3059094</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3059094@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>The war's barely begun. Israel is a test case. If the west allows Israel to fall, then Radical Islam will take over them very shortly thereafter.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3058848</link><pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 07:27:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3058848</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3058848@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Tue Dec 13 2011 11:06:20 AM EST</span> <span>from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote>Oddly, I can't find any mention of this in the mainstream media at <br />home (tho some uk rags mention it w/o the allahu akbar). </blockquote>
<br />This is disgraceful. Until we can actually admit that radical Islam itself is the enemy, not just Al Qaeda or some other vague group, we're going to continue to lose the war. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I thought you guys had already won it</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3057889</link><pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2011 14:38:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3057889</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3057889@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Sadly, I fear that we may be coming to a place where we have more to lose than "just" this war.</p>
<p>Have you seen the news reports coming out of european and asian papers about the Russ-Chinese discussions?  The topic seems once again strangely absent from the standard US/International press.</p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Tue Dec 13 2011 11:06:20 AM EST</span> <span>from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />This is disgraceful. Until we can actually admit that radical Islam itself is the enemy, not just Al Qaeda or some other vague group, we're going to continue to lose the war. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3057777</link><pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:06:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3057777</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3057777@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Oddly, I can't find any mention of this in the mainstream media at  
 >home (tho some uk rags mention it w/o the allahu akbar).   
  
 This is disgraceful.  Until we can actually admit that radical Islam itself
is the enemy, not just Al Qaeda or some other vague group, we're going to
continue to lose the war. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3057776</link><pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:03:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3057776</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3057776@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >I learn by writing, following directions, and direct experience. I  
 >can't just sit there and soak up the information. I have to write it  
 >down or I'll forget as soon as the instructor is done talking...  
  
 One of my college roommates made it his standard practice to not only take
notes, but to also consider those notes to be a draft version, and he recopied
them into a longer/neater form while the lectures were still fresh in his
head.  I don't know if the note-copying was to be credited, but he was an
A student. 
  
 Frankly I am starting to doubt that a college education is the automatic
best course for everyone at this point in history. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3057753</link><pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2011 10:24:57 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3057753</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3057753@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Oddly, I can't find any mention of this in the mainstream media at home (tho some uk rags mention it w/o the allahu akbar).</p>
<p>http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/12/hollywood-jihad-shootout-gunman-calmly-targeted-drivers-people-shouting-allahu-akbar.html</p>
<p>http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/12/hollywood-gunman-shouting-allahu-akbar-fires-upon-random-passersby-at-sunset-and-vine.html</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3057123</link><pubDate>Sun, 11 Dec 2011 23:14:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3057123</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3057123@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sat Dec 10 2011 11:04:20 AM EST</span> <span>from triLcat @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>some people learn best by writing down what they're learning. You're discriminating against that segment of the population. Sounds insane to me.</p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Exactly my point. If I didn't write it down, I didn't remember it. I still have notes from my college classes that I use on a daily basis (print-making, AutoCAD, SolidWorks, ANSI, ASME, ... the usual drafting stuff).</p>
<p>It's insane to even think that notes are copyright infringement. We had a policy campus-wide in college about notes. You take notes or fail the class. It was part of every single teacher's cirriculum.</p>
<p>I learn by writing, following directions, and direct experience. I can't just sit there and soak up the information. I have to write it down or I'll forget as soon as the instructor is done talking...</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3056945</link><pubDate>Sun, 11 Dec 2011 09:29:32 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3056945</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3056945@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Idiocracy at work. </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3056664</link><pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2011 11:04:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3056664</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3056664@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>some people learn best by writing down what they're learning. You're discriminating against that segment of the population. Sounds insane to me.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3056179</link><pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 09:34:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3056179</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3056179@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Fri Dec 09 2011 02:46:16 AM EST</span> <span>from dothebart @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p><a href="http://laboratorium.net/archive/2011/12/08/bad_news_from_berkeley" target="webcit01">http://laboratorium.net/archive/2011/12/08/bad_news_from_berkeley</a></p>
<p>new level in copyrights stupidity.</p>
<p>note-taking prohibited to protect the prof from the students stealing his material.</p>
<p>WTF?</p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p><br /> progress...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>how are lazy students supposed to remember what the f'ing lecture was about if they cant take notes? I had several professors tell me "if you do not take notes, i don't expect you to pass." and he would point out the "really important" stuff and hint that it would be on the next exam/final/essay/assignment/etc...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>bah</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3056082</link><pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2011 02:46:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3056082</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3056082@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>http://laboratorium.net/archive/2011/12/08/bad_news_from_berkeley</p>
<p>new level in copyrights stupidity.</p>
<p>note-taking prohibited to protect the prof from the students stealing his material.</p>
<p>WTF?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3055888</link><pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 16:34:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3055888</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3055888@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 It's all geek to me... anyway: Mr. Fusion. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3055346</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2011 20:11:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3055346</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3055346@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 That would help, I think... smaller power plants in various cities, instead
of the huge plants serving large metropolitan areas or something. 
  
 Although getting that to happen... seems tricky. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3054777</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 18:08:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3054777</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3054777@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>EcoGeeks speaking sleek Greek?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3054606</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 11:53:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3054606</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3054606@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Tue Dec 06 2011 10:57:42 EST</span> <span>from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">Economies of scale are important because a big power plant can generate electricity far more efficiently than a bunch of little ones, particularly if we're talking about on-site plants maintained by people who aren't experts dedicated to power generation. <br /><br />What the little plants do exceptionally well, however, is to keep excessive load off the grid, which no longer has to transport as much electricity to as many places. <br /><br />Community and municipal power plants would be a good step forward, but good luck getting that past the greenies. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>you're missing some other important points.</p>
<p> - the line length needed to transport the electricity also causes loss (plus lowers reliability)</p>
<p> - the overal degree of efficiency of the whole system can be increased by using the remainding heat, which you can't that much on a 100MW Nuclear Power Plant.</p>
<p>you can use big power plants (regardless of coal/gas/nuclear) for industrial scales for example in alloy production, or to power railways...</p>
<p>but just to power peoples houses and middle size industry smaller scale power plants scale better.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3054566</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 10:57:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3054566</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3054566@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Economies of scale are important because a big power plant can generate electricity
far more efficiently than a bunch of little ones, particularly if we're talking
about on-site plants maintained by people who aren't experts dedicated to
power generation. 
  
 What the little plants do exceptionally well, however, is to keep excessive
load off the grid, which no longer has to transport as much electricity to
as many places. 
  
 Community and municipal power plants would be a good step forward, but good
luck getting that past the greenies. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3054488</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 08:11:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3054488</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3054488@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Heh... economy-geeks... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3052545</link><pubDate>Sat, 03 Dec 2011 11:16:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3052545</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3052545@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 economies of scale remain important, though.  
   
 which reminds me of this: 
  
 http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2011/11/thanksgiving-shopping-advice.html

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3052213</link><pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2011 17:34:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3052213</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3052213@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 We should make greater strides in using our current fuel more efficiently.
 I also suspect we should get away from centralized power sources in favor
of decentralized power sources (people should provide their own power instead
of relying upon power plants). 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3051263</link><pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2011 08:22:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3051263</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3051263@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Wed Nov 30 2011 14:42:03 EST</span> <span>from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">Orbiting energy platforms have been discussed before. The generally agreed upon method of delivering the energy to earth is via a focused microwave beam. <br />There is some concern that if the beam drifts away from its target collector, it will start cooking people wherever it happens to land. <br /><br />Whether this is a bad thing is left as an exercise for the reader :) </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I remember one version of SimCity which contained exactly these microwave collectors, with abovementioned problems:</p>
<p><img src="http://sc3k.itgo.com/sc2000/items/microwav.gif" alt="" width="142" height="136" /></p>
<p>Microwave Power:This provides a ton of pollution free power, but once in a while the beam misses the dish. -ZAP- ^Whoops!^ <br /><br />Stats:<br />Size: 4 x 4 tiles<br />Year Available: 2020<br />Megawatts: 1600<br />Tiles Served: 4,848<br />Pollution: 0 units<br />Life Span: 50 years<br />Land Value: 28,000,000<br />Cost: $28,000<br />Cost per megawatt: $17.5</p>
<p>Source:  http://sc3k.itgo.com/sc2000/items/powerplant.html</p>
<p>PS: As a german full of typical Angst I agree with dothebart. I think energy efficency and powersavings are more essential than more power sources. We still waste to much. (And no, I am not some kind of "back to the stone age" fanatic, I just think we can build smarter devices and machines.)</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3050948</link><pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:53:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3050948</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3050948@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >That would be an interesting solution, but how would we get the  
 >resulting electricity back to earth?  
  
  Hey, I can't solve all of your problems...  Just send it via FedEx or something.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3050829</link><pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:42:03 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3050829</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3050829@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Orbiting energy platforms have been discussed before.  The generally agreed
upon method of delivering the energy to earth is via a focused microwave beam.
 There is some concern that if the beam drifts away from its target collector,
it will start cooking people wherever it happens to land. 
  
 Whether this is a bad thing is left as an exercise for the reader :) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3050819</link><pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:02:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3050819</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3050819@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Wed Nov 30 2011 12:57:48 PM EST</span> <span>from Ygorl @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />We should just build a whole bunch of nuclear plants on the moon. That way it won't be a big deal if a couple of 'em blow up every now and again. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>That would be an interesting solution, but how would we get the resulting electricity back to earth?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3050795</link><pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 12:57:48 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3050795</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3050795@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[   
  We should just build a whole bunch of nuclear plants on the moon.  That
way it won't be a big deal if a couple of 'em blow up every now and again.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3050652</link><pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 06:09:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3050652</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3050652@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>if every 20 years we continue to have a hazard like tschernobyl or fukushima, which each time produces a 20km diameter dead spot in heavily settlet areas there soon will be no more space.</p>
<p>we don't even have a single place for the nuclear waste after 60 years; and I don't think we will find one any time soon. So generations will have to be educated how to breed the waste so it doesn't blow in ther face.</p>
<p>if every nuclear power station has to be inshured to cover the fatalities it produces in case of a GAU plus an inshurance to cover the handling of the waste, so you put the total price tag on it, I doubt anyone will find a good reason to build a nuclear power plant. Its not cheap, its not safe and yes, we need to find something else; be it reducing the energy use or finding other technologies to give us the energy we want to consume.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3050549</link><pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 21:48:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3050549</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3050549@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[*sigh*  It's really a shame, we were *so* close to a nuclear renaissance,
but then Fukushima gave the flat-earth no-growth greendroid crowd enough ammunition
that it probably now won't happen for decades. 
  
 Now we'll have to wait until hydrocarbon fuels actually do start running
out, at which point nuclear will simply be the only reasonable option (unless
there's a breakthrough in some other area, which we should explore, but at
the same time) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3048156</link><pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:13:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3048156</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3048156@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>first time in history massive protests against nuclear waste transports in france.</p>
<p>just about 400 protesters, but 400 more than usual.</p>
<p>In germany these transports call several thousands on track since the eighties.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3045540</link><pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:54:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Occupy Uncensored!</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3045540@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I like what this guy says about half way through the video, he doesn't believe in private property, but he does believe in personal property.<br />http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/17/hey-wow-the-daily-show-actually-made-fun-of-ows-sorta/<br />(From the Daily Show)</p>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3045168</link><pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2011 22:11:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3045168</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3045168@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Good material skpac</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3044887</link><pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:19:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3044887</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3044887@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>PROTECT IP and SOPA are being voted on today.</p>
<p>I just wish google would pick the right side and pull out the big guns.</p>
<p>I was so pissed about this stuff that I posted it all over my recording studio's website: http://bit.ly/vzLM3M</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3044498</link><pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2011 09:43:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3044498</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3044498@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>"Rational adults"?  There is no need for insults and name calling here.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3044416</link><pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2011 04:15:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3044416</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3044416@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Sometimes I skip this room because things make me angry. </p>
<p>Mostly, I like the dialog - I feel like rational adults discussing issues can actually help a situation.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3044186</link><pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:33:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3044186</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3044186@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[It's ok to not agree about everything.  The people that I get along with the
best (and you're a prime example) are the ones who know that even though I'm
very opinionated, and even though I have a tendency to be a bit inflammatory
when discussing things that are important to me, I still enjoy the dialog
and camaraderie and chaos and adding a bit of lunacy to the mix is *always*
welcome. 
  
 I realize that it isn't the best approach; for me it has destroyed some friendships
and strengthened others.  Most of the time I'm ok with that. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3044137</link><pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:06:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3044137</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3044137@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Yeah, I'm all for keeping things light.  I know we don't necessarily agree
on everything, but I don't want to be an ass about it.  I didn't see how the
thread progressed after whatever I wrote last, but I could see where it had
the potential to go south fast. 
  
 Sorry if I sorta helped it along there, IG.  That wasn't my intention. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3044131</link><pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:00:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3044131</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3044131@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Thanks, IG! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3043934</link><pubDate>Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:30:47 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3043934</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3043934@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Give the press a break.  It is taking a lot of time and energy for them to
cover up the discovery that the Occupy protests are mostly organized by ACORN.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3043820</link><pubDate>Sun, 13 Nov 2011 03:22:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3043820</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3043820@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Two monumental explosions in Iran and the press is mostly ignoring it...</p>
<p><a href="http://edition.cnn.com/2011/11/12/world/meast/iran-blast/">http://edition.cnn.com/2011/11/12/world/meast/iran-blast/</a></p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3043362</link><pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:24:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3043362</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3043362@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >I probably should have responded to this here instead of on G+ with
 >that Snopes thing.  I wish I still had the text I wrote regarding
 >Jesus' words concerning Christmas Trees, as that was kinda funny.
 
Lucky you -- it's still here, in my gmail feed.  I shut down the G+ thread
because certain people were starting to take it in a direction I wasn't
happy with ... people who know that if they want it to *be* uncensored it
has to be *on* Uncensored.  :)

And now, the eloquent prose of His Eminent Fleebness:

> "Actually, I'm still trying to figure out what Christmas trees have to do
> with Christianity. Oh, wait, here it is... as quoted:
>
> And the Lord did speak unto the people, and commanded them to bring unto
> him a Douglas Fir. And He did command us to adorn said tree with little
> bits of shiny objects, and to light within this tree several candles.
>
> "This tree is my life's work.
The candles within the tree are my lessons,
> and the shiny objects within the tree are the pale reflections my lessons
> as told by ye who do not understand them."
>
> And in some homes, the tree erupt into flame, destroying the homes of the
> unfaithful, for they did not heed the lessons of the Lord. And the Lord did
> chuckle.
>
> And unto the other homes, their tree did wither and die, like unto the
> attendance to the word of the Lord. For each generation passing before
> history will distance themselves further from understanding the words of
> the Lord, even as each generation's word and views change before the
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3043339</link><pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:06:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3043339</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3043339@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/looting-main-street-20100331</p>
<blockquote>
<p> What happened here in Jefferson County would turn out to be the perfect metaphor for the peculiar alchemy of modern oligarchical capitalism: A mob of corrupt local officials and morally absent financiers got together to build a giant device that converted human shit into billions of dollars of profit for Wall Street</p>
</blockquote>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3042979</link><pubDate>Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:53:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3042979</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3042979@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I probably should have responded to this here instead of on G+ with that Snopes thing.  I wish I still had the text I wrote regarding Jesus' words concerning Christmas Trees, as that was kinda funny.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3042822</link><pubDate>Wed, 09 Nov 2011 11:54:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3042822</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3042822@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Wed Nov 09 2011 09:25:16 EST</span> <span>from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">Taxation without representation, or a war against Christianity ... you decide! <br /><br /><a href="http://www.conservativerefocus.com/blog5.php/2011/11/08/obama-disguises-attack-on-christianity-as-aid-to-ch" target="webcit01">http://www.conservativerefocus.com/blog5.php/2011/11/08/obama-disguises-attack-on-christianity-as-aid-to-ch</a> ristmas-tree-marketing-tax-on-christmas-trees-decreed-by-obama <br /><br />(or ... <a href="http://tinyurl.com/bpj22s9" target="webcit01">http://tinyurl.com/bpj22s9</a> ) <br /><br />Imam Obama places a tax on Christmas trees -- and conveniently bypasses Congress by running it through the Department of Agriculture instead of legislating it. <br /><br />WTF? </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I'd say a symptom if you have a state system with several instances who all need to approve decisions (like we have in germany also..)</p>
<p>Once one of these houses simply "blocks" because of because without any chance to find a comon denominator on discussions, you have to find a way around it.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3042789</link><pubDate>Wed, 09 Nov 2011 09:25:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3042789</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3042789@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Taxation without representation, or a war against Christianity ... you decide!

  
 http://www.conservativerefocus.com/blog5.php/2011/11/08/obama-disguises-attack-on-christianity-as-aid-to-ch
ristmas-tree-marketing-tax-on-christmas-trees-decreed-by-obama 
  
 (or ... http://tinyurl.com/bpj22s9 ) 
  
 Imam Obama places a tax on Christmas trees -- and conveniently bypasses Congress
by running it through the Department of Agriculture instead of legislating
it. 
  
 WTF? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3042521</link><pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2011 07:50:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3042521</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3042521@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><img src="http://occupymemphis.org/media/kunena/attachments/100/tumblr_lt874owi8h1qzsnxyo1_1280.jpg" alt="" width="576" height="644" /> </p>
<p>http://occupymemphis.org/media/kunena/attachments/100/tumblr_lt874owi8h1qzsnxyo1_1280.jpg</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3040156</link><pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2011 14:17:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: One Law. Period.</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3040156@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > undergo quantum entanglement at relativistic velocities which even heavy
 
 >doses of alcohol cannot alleviate...    
  
 You're occupying the wrong Zone of Thought. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3040122</link><pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2011 12:09:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3040122</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3040122@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 in a light wine sauce. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3040090</link><pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2011 10:53:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3040090</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3040090@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 charred, dead monkeys. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3039917</link><pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2011 01:36:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: One Law. Period.</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3039917@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Tue Oct 18 2011 13:09:17 EDT</span> <span>from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re: One Law. Period.</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote>There is only, precisely, One Law. </blockquote>
<br />Are we referring to "the One Law, the totality of all laws" as discovered by Moses? <br /><br />Or something else? </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>It is mathematically impossible to have more than one law if the requirement is that such laws are to be coherent.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Moses ?  I try to steer clear of religious perspectives as they so often end up creating very intense RDFs where logic threads</p>
<p> undergo quantum entanglement at relativistic velocities which even heavy doses of alcohol cannot alleviate...</p>
<p>[Urgent note to self: Drink coffee at least one hour before turning logging onto uncensored and typing things one might regret later ]</p>
<p>cheers</p>
<p>-- <br />TheOneLaw</p>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3039863</link><pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:24:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3039863</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3039863@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ 
  
 Plenty of peat, though, so no need for foreign oil. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3039827</link><pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2011 18:31:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3039827</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3039827@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 They've had terrible economic problems before. 
  
 I hope they like potatos. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3039791</link><pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2011 16:20:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3039791</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3039791@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[      
 There's a case to be made that Ireland shouldn't have bailed their banks
out. (Yes, they did bail out their own banks, effectively transferring big
subprime losses into government debt.)     
    
    
 The chain of events was: first Ireland bails out its own banks. Then, oops,
debt trouble, time to go looking for a bailout for the Irish government. 
 
    
 This would not have been such a huge problem if Ireland still had their own
printing press... but no, that printing press is under lock and key at the
ECB.   
  
  
 Fundamentally, Ireland chose to bail out foreign bank creditors to their
own banks; bad deal for Irish citizens; massive losses for Irish depositors
would have been awful, but quite possibly preferable. So it's not as simple
as saying Ireland just went looking for a handout. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3039691</link><pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2011 12:22:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3039691</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3039691@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Google for example has its main part of the company there, at least the one that should be paying business tax in USA. They only have 15% business tax or something like that in ireland. So they gain a little by all the foreign countries but still not enough to bail out their own banks, EU did that. They also wont raise their tax, since the foreign businesses would leave then... </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3039294</link><pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 20:00:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3039294</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3039294@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Lots of american companies have their main headquarter in ireland for  
 >tax reasons (and the EU recently bailed ireland out of their debts,  
  
 I don't know about Irish company headquarters... but a lot of pharma companies
have manufacturing in Ireland. These companies aren't Irish-owned, so they
don't contribute to Ireland's GNP. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3039244</link><pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 17:44:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3039244</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3039244@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>It might be interesting to see how much taxes <em>less</em> "the rich" could be paying <em>if</em> they were paying all their taxes. For example, according to our primary yellow press magazine, <em>the greeks</em> have 200 billions € on offshore accounts (mostly switzerland), alledgedly... Dodging taxes is a widespread hobby of germans, too.</p>
<p>Lots of american companies have their main headquarter in ireland for tax reasons (and the EU recently bailed ireland out of their debts, iirc...), Bono (that head fag of U2) has his main place of living in netherlands, because he pays less taxes there. If all of these people were living in the country they call "home" (for whatever reason they do so) <em>and</em> pay proper taxes, maybe the state wouldn't need to tax them that much. If Apple would still build their hardware in US instead of Shenzen, pay their employees more and charge the same, they wouldn't gain as much as they do now, but the US might gain more...</p>
<p> Also maybe legallizing <em>all</em> drugs and taxing them might cash in some money while at the same time it might reduce the money spent for border control and on crime fighting the mafia... But that would be unethical, i guess.</p>
<p>Then again, I don't understand politics and economy, so what the heck. ;)</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3038417</link><pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:36:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3038417</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3038417@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Taxation *should* be progressive; basically, you have trouble running a functioning
government on a flat tax without placing an unfair burden on the poor. Right
now we have a bell-curve tax; it's mostly progressive but, due to loopholes,
not entirely. 
  
 But it doesn't have to be that way. European countries often have a much
less progressive tax structure than we do; they simply make up for this with
more progressive social programs. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3038394</link><pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:22:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3038394</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3038394@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 dothebart: 
  
 I think you're seeing what I see. 
  
 It's about the ratios, not the absolute dollars. 
  
 By ratio, the middle class is very badly burdened, and its getting worse.

  
 The rich are hardly impacted at all. 
  
 The theory of 'trickle down' involves the rich putting money back into The
System (economy, I guess) which trickles down to everyone else.  The hard
numbers show that is total bullshit... the rich do not put money back into
the economy for everyone else, but keep it for themselves, creating more and
more disparity between themselves and the rest of the citizenry. 
  
 Taxes are about the only way the money gets redistributed to the population
at large, unfortunately, since the rich won't do it on their own.  And, now,
even the taxes won't do it.  So maybe we're headed towards an economic collapsed
sponsored by the wealthy, I dunno. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3038390</link><pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:09:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3038390</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3038390@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 If the movement did nothing else, it at least got us to seriously look at
what the fuck is going on, and get outraged.  I dunno if we're outraged eough
to do anything about it, but at least some people are pissed off.  I would
be one of them. 
  
 Yes.  Tax the rich even more.  Of all the people in this country, tax those
fuckers until it hurts, for having public funds bail their corporations out
when they should have gone under. 
  
 You can't possibly tax the middle class or the poor too much more... certainly
not enough to come up with the absolutely astonishing numbers we're seeing
in TARP and (maybe soon) FDIC.  If our government is now expected to fund
corporate wellfare in addition to citizen's wellfare, tax them until they
bleed. 
  
 Read that link again, IG.  The rich not only accumulate wealth, they also
accumulate power.  Their wealth helps grant them the ability to make changes
in government that benefit them. 
  
 If we're investing in corporate wellfare, we have no choice but to increase
the burden on the rich.  And, yes, it's fucking unfair... there are plenty
of wealthy people who didn't fuck over their corporations, who managed to
run a clean, decent business under sound business policy, and maybe even devoid
of corruption.  But you and I cannot afford to bail out banksters.  Only the
rich can do that.  And if there is ever going to be any change to prevent
us from bailing those fuckers out again, it will have to happen from the wealthy
who refuse to bail them out in the future. 
  
 Tax the rich, hard, and make them fix the problem. 
  
 But it won't happen.  I'd be really surprised if our politicians actually
do anything substantive to fix this problem.  I will not be surprised if in
another ten to twenty years, we have a civil war. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3038389</link><pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:08:57 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3038389</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3038389@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I think you're flattening dimensions here not able to bear the needed information.</p>
<p>I think one would need a graph here; x axis % of population, y axis % of income</p>
<p>best twice, one to the direction %welthiest and %poorest.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3038372</link><pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2011 11:23:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3038372</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3038372@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[True, the rich are earning a bigger share of the nation's income today.  But
they also pay a very lopsided share of the tax burden.  The wealthiest 1%
pay 38% of all federal income taxes (compare, say, to 1980 when they paid
only 19%). 
  
 Take it a step further.  The wealthiest 10% of Americans earn 45 percent
of the nation's income, but pay 70% of the taxes. 
  
 And one step further ... the top 25% earn 67% of the money, and pay 86% of
the taxes. 
  
 So ... tax the rich?  More?  At what point will the occupy-mob consider the
"banksters" to be paying "their fair share?" 
  
 If this movement is authentic (and again, I have my doubts) ... it makes
me quite fearful that Alexis de Tocqueville was correct in pretty much everything
he's ever written. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3037618</link><pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2011 14:06:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3037618</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3037618@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 In any event, the real problem is in our government, I think.   
    
 I never used to think that it was good and right to distribute wealth from
the rich to the poor, but my mind is changing, somewhat.   
    
 The top 0.1% of this country's wealthy people hold a very, very large percentage
of all money in this country.  And, I think, most of them do not actually
work, so about the only contribution they could possibly make to society is
to help use their money to drive industry.  Which, I think, most of them do.
  
  
  
 And you know, that's fine.  But you have to consider something... the very
rich know how, and have a proclivity for attracting wealth to themselves,
moreso than anyone else.  And when there's only so many dollars out there
(even if you print more, you just dilute the currency), as the rich accumulate
more money, there's less for anyone else. 
  
 Now, if you're a
laborer (and chances are, if you're reading this, you are a laborer), and
you decide you'll always be a laborer, you've pretty much figured out that
you aren't the type of person who can accumulate money to yourself.  You've
probably come to agree that you will work for other people providing labor,
and gaining a paycheck for your efforts.  Maybe you're particularly skilled,
so you'll get a higher paycheck than unskilled people, but it's more-or-less
the same... you're a laborer. 
  
 Even if you don't quite fit the above (stock options, whatever), you are
probably not one of the 0.1% who holds the majority of the wealth in this
country.  You're probably just another person hoping to be able to retire
comfortably, maybe sell the business to someone else or whatever. 
  
 If your chunk of the pie (dollars) is getting smaller, with more of it going
to the super-rich, and the super-rich isn't
voluntarily passing any of it back to the laborers (wage cuts, moving jobs
overseas, stealing retirement funds, reducing benefits, not providing medical
insurance, etc), you are basically getting squeezed to a point where, collectively,
you will break. 
  
 And at that point, I guess, there will be a storming of the bastille. 
  
 The government used to provide some of that redistribution, either through
laws or various benefits.  If the government continued to do that, it should
ensure the monies taken from the rich are distributed to laborers who best
benefit society as whole (which, to me, means the small to medium sized businesses,
as they provide the bulk of employment). 
  
 But, increasingly, what ways the government had for doing this have been
stripped, while businesses provide less for their laborers. 
  
 I think, although the Wall Street Dingbats don't *really* know why they're
angry, they are responding to what they feel.  I think it's a warning. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3037612</link><pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2011 13:48:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3037612</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3037612@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 IG: 
  
 So, the author of the article proposes that the Occupy Wall Street folks
should start beating the ally mugger instead of beating the serial killer.

  
 Because that's what I took away from the article. 
  
 People fail to look at the bottom line, I think.  Hollywood's excesses are
awful, and it would be entertaining to see the baleful light of truth and
justice shine on all those fuckers, but I don't think it would have the impact
that shining the light on the banksters might provide. 
  
 Hollywood's corruption does impact lives.  People get screwed over constantly
in that industry, to include the consumer.  But, honestly, I can live without
movies, television, and a lot of other crap they generate. 
  
 I can't really live without food, shelter, and clothing. 
  
 Which brings us to the banksters.  They've definitely fucked with 'shelter'.
 That's incontrovertable.  Further,
they've fucked with every other sector of employment out there, because all
businesses (particularly small to medium sized businesses) occasionally need
to take out loans.  And, honestly, their excesses have consistently been a
problem in this country.  Unless, of course, you don't think The Great Depression
was a very big deal. 
  
 So, really, it's an issue of scale.  The banksters need to clean themselves
up for the good of the country.  Hollywood needs to clean itself up for the
good of the entertainment industry. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3037558</link><pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2011 10:01:28 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3037558</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3037558@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>At this point, I'd really like to see a private, NGO-funded audit of the federal budget.  I want to know where the hell all this money is *truly* going.  Given it's gargantuan size, I simply don't believe that it's mostly going to medicare, 800$ hammers, and social security (read: defense and social programs, in gen) and not to enourmous amount of guttable pork.</p>
<p>Getting very close to seeing a Dave-vention as a desireable option.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3037523</link><pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2011 08:50:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3037523</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3037523@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Ok, then we'll choose a different source.  Google the phrase "Occupy Hollywood"
and you'll see the same sentiment expressed by a number of different people.
 (Here's a good one: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46697 which
doesn't brush with Godwin.) 
  
 Distribution of wealth is an issue, to be sure.  I have a problem with the
*agenda* of those who seek to forcibly "fix" the issue via increasingly progressive
taxation, using the illusion of class warfare to promote it.  We've already
demonstrated that increased taxation does not solve economic problems; it
only permits the government to get bigger and bigger. 
  
 Back to the issue at hand: if the real issue is lopsided distribution of
wealth, why are celebrities not being tarred with the same brush as corporate
leaders, when they have even *more* of that allegedly hoarded wealth? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3036834</link><pubDate>Wed, 19 Oct 2011 08:02:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3036834</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3036834@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Sorry, but I'm calling Godwin's Law on that.  He'll need to try again.
  
 Am I the only person here, other than Ford II, who actually read the 
link Ford provided a while ago (in the Lobby) concerning how wealth and 
power is distributed in the United States, and how the trends have 
changed significantly in the last 20 years, and what caused those 
changes?
  
 I have not heard an argument against those statistics.  Of course, it's 
a difficult read, but the devil is in the details, isn't it?
 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3036620</link><pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 14:25:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3036620</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3036620@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Here's something to think about today. 
  
 http://cnsnews.com/blog/walter-e-williams/pitting-us-against-each-other 
  
 The top celebrities make FAR more money than the top CEO's, so why are the
leftoids demonizing CEO's and not celebrities?  Hint: look at who is doing
the demonizing: statist politicians.  It is the CEO's whose power they want
to usurp. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3036602</link><pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 13:09:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: One Law. Period.</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3036602@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >There is only, precisely, One Law.    
  
 Are we referring to "the One Law, the totality of all laws" as discovered
by Moses? 
  
 Or something else? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3036490</link><pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 05:46:34 +0500</pubDate><title>One Law. Period.</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3036490@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>There is only, precisely, One Law.</p>
<p>Anything else is simply gaming performed on you by other people.</p>
<p>...or by you on other people...</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Wed Oct 05 2011 11:12:27 EDT</span> <span>from zooer @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>I want to make a law outlawing laws.   Well actually any new laws until we get the old laws fixed.</p>
<p><img src="http://palmbeachpravda.com/images/feild2.jpg" alt="feild" width="474" height="431" /></p>
<p> </p>
<p>I am going to recommend the "drugs" option for her.</p>
<p> </p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p><br /> </p>
<p>-- <br />TheOneLaw</p>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3033942</link><pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2011 19:36:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3033942</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3033942@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>In related news...</p>
<p><img src="http://www.mises.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/MMoore-300x248.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="248" /></p>
<p>(That about says it all, doesn't it?)</p>
<p>At <a href="http://rayharvey.org/index.php/2011/09/michael-moore-old-fashioned-capitalism-when-wealth-was-shared/">http://rayharvey.org/index.php/2011/09/michael-moore-old-fashioned-capitalism-when-wealth-was-shared/</a> there is an article in which we re-discover how little Michael Moore knows about capitalism.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3033127</link><pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2011 11:55:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3033127</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3033127@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I forget some people use the text client and can't see the images displayed in-line, so here is a link to my image from the post above.<br />http://palmbeachpravda.com/images/feild2.jpg</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What I find amazing is that the person writing those demands isn't a well known economist.  Those demands are so extraordinary, so well thought out, high paying job offers must be filling his in-box. </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3033122</link><pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2011 11:45:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3033122</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3033122@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3033114</link><pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2011 11:35:03 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3033114</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3033114@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >>These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely  
 >>impossible to fill them without an open borders policy.   
  
 This is the really funny part.  If all of these demands were to suddenly
be implemented, it would immediately collapse (what's left of) the economy.

  
 The demands seem to be predicated on the assumption that there are trillions
of dollars of wealth being hoarded by Wall Street fatcats that merely need
to be "liberated" in order to Utopianize the world. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3033109</link><pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2011 11:12:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3033109</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3033109@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I want to make a law outlawing laws.   Well actually any new laws until we get the old laws fixed.</p>
<p><img src="http://palmbeachpravda.com/images/feild2.jpg" alt="feild" width="474" height="431" /></p>
<p> </p>
<p>I am going to recommend the "drugs" option for her.</p>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3033100</link><pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2011 11:03:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3033100</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3033100@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Demand 18: We demand the immediate elimination of everything bad. 
  
 (And demands 1 thru 17 vanished in a puff of logic.) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3033041</link><pubDate>Wed, 05 Oct 2011 08:32:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3033041</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3033041@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Hmm.. take seven years of presidency on a condominium home owner's associatin's
board, boil away all the time spent doing my job, having fun, etc., and concentrate
all the hours of listening to idiots bicker over nothing, people repeat the
same tired old complaints that we can do nothing about, and other people who
treat you and your staff like an asshat because they get their jollies off
making themselves feel better by trying to put down anyone of any perceived
authority, and the one percent of actual good that you do winds up feeling
kind of pointless. 
  
 All of that equals about one month of time spent in the US Presidency, I
suspect. 
  
 No thanks.  Life is too short. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3032900</link><pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 21:49:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3032900</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3032900@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Fleeb for President!</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3032861</link><pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 19:24:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3032861</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3032861@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Wow, I just read those demands.  Wow.</p>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3032852</link><pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 19:01:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3032852</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3032852@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Demand 14:... and a pony for everybody. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3032845</link><pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 18:11:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3032845</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3032845@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Demand fourteen: A ban on Hall Hawaiin music in elevators.  This demoralizes
an already stressed workforce. 
  
 Demand fifteen: Enemas for everyone!  Because a clean colon is a healthy
colon. 
  
 Demand sixteen: Politicians must start their sessions with a polka.  They're
already doing a song-and-dance, so we ought to make this explicit. 
  
 Demand seventeen: Elevate prostitution to a class status on par with punditry.
 Or maybe we're already there, we're not sure. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3032841</link><pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 18:04:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3032841</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3032841@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[(all these feral humans making ridiculous demands while continuing to have
Internet access is a pretty good justification for forcibly shutting down
Facebook, in my opinion...) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3032840</link><pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 18:03:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3032840</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3032840@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Weird ... tarriffs happen to be on the list of "demands" of the ridiculous "occupy Wall Street" movement.  It's pretty much the <em>only</em> reasonable thing on the list.  Check out this nonsense (source: <a href="http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/">http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/</a> )</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.</p>
<p>Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.</p>
<p>Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.</p>
<p>Demand four: Free college education.</p>
<p>Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.</p>
<p>Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.</p>
<p>Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.</p>
<p>Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.</p>
<p>Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.</p>
<p>Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.</p>
<p>Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.</p>
<p>Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.</p>
<p>Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.</p>
<p>These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely impossible to fill them without an open borders policy.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>WTF???</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3032774</link><pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 13:52:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3032774</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3032774@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[(Interestingly, that article only shows up as a teaser when entered directly,
but in its entirety when linked from Google News.) 
  
 Sounds good to me.  Tarriffs on anything coming in from China would be good.
 It's already a strained relationship so there's no reason to try to make
nice with them.  They need our money anyway. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3032726</link><pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 11:25:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3032726</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3032726@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[US Senate votes 79-19 to advance China tariffs bill

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3027732</link><pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2011 15:55:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3027732</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3027732@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Here is an interesting article titled "Your Right To Record"

It boils down to this: In every state but Illinois and Massachusetts, you are perfectly within your legal rights to record or photograph an on-duty police 
officer, so long as you don’t physically interfere with him. In Massachusetts, you’re free to record so long as you do so openly, though this month’s First 
Circuit ruling suggests that even the prohibition on secret recording in public spaces may soon be overturned. In Illinois, it’s still illegal to record on-duty 
cops without their permission. The law is currently being challenged, and was recently found to be unconstitutional by one state judge but that decision only 
applied to the case before him.

http://www.theagitator.com/2011/09/20/your-right-to-record/

That article has a link to:
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3027496</link><pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2011 08:43:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3027496</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3027496@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[There are a lot of sites dedicated to the topic of recording the police.  Here is on called "Photography Is Not A Crime"
http://www.pixiq.com/contributors/carlosmiller


]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3027350</link><pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 22:00:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3027350</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3027350@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Illinois Judge Not Sure About That Whole Constitution Thing

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/09/judge-worries-recording-police-will-lead-to-excessive-snooping-around.ars

-or-

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3026634</link><pubDate>Sat, 17 Sep 2011 23:27:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3026634</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3026634@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>It sucks you had to go through that, fleeb.  Hopefully, this corner will help bring the services to a time when no one will need to do so.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3026613</link><pubDate>Sat, 17 Sep 2011 21:58:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3026613</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3026613@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 The military is attempting to right the wrongs it made in marking gay servicemember's
service records in the fashion they did when they kicked them out of the military.

  
 http://preview.tinyurl.com/3c3lyvk 
  
 This particular story just hurts.  I'm sure there are coutless others like
it.  It hits me somewhat close, as I had to bend the truth or outright lie
to prevent myself from getting kicked out of the Army once when a civilian
tried to blackmail me. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3024927</link><pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2011 19:02:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3024927</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3024927@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Alright Mr. Foobar, there are fifteen <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)_presidential_primaries,_2012#Candidates">formally declared republican candidates</a>, make your Frankenstein Monster.  (Or a Mr. Potato Head)</p>
<p>For fun build a second monster using non-declared, withdrawn or candidates from other parties.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3024793</link><pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2011 11:21:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3024793</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3024793@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Oh, how nice. 
  
 http://t.co/ctlXvvX 
  
 Ron Paul plays the "9/11 was our fault" line of thinking. 
  
 I'm a big fan of isolationism, but it's extremely naive to think that the
muslimterrorists would leave us alone if we stopped "occupying the Middle
East." 
  
 It would be nice if we could take pieces of the various GOP candidates and
make a Frankenstein's Monster out of all the best parts. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3022623</link><pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2011 21:26:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3022623</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3022623@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[http://reason.com/archives/2011/09/07/ron-pauls-reagan

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3022312</link><pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2011 05:49:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3022312</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3022312@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Thu Sep 08 2011 04:23:18 EDT</span> <span>from   the_mgt @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>Build a taxpayers union! <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Taxpayers_Federation" target="webcit01">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Taxpayers_Federation</a></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>which is primary a loby organisation pinpointing govermental waste.</p>
<p>But whatever agency you work for, you probably don't want to become blacknosed by them.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3022295</link><pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2011 04:23:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3022295</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3022295@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Build a taxpayers union! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Taxpayers_Federation</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3022165</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2011 20:13:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3022165</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3022165@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Good find, zooer.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3022118</link><pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2011 18:02:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3022118</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3022118@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><img src="http://www.palmbeachpravda.com/images/unions.jpg" alt="Unions vs tax payer" width="430" height="519" /></p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3021631</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 20:40:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3021631</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3021631@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I pass by this house and I see a FeEx truck in the driveway.  I always wondered about it, perhaps the owner of the truck purchased a route.  As I remember the truck isn't in the best shape.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3021625</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 20:22:38 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3021625</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3021625@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I kinda got a chance to know someone who worked for FedEx. 
  
 He was actually working for himself.  He bought a license to run a certain
route, and bought a FedEx truck to maintain the route.  There were of course
certain responsibilities involved with it, but it's a sound model.  He hired
other people to function as drivers, and ensured they did what they were supposed
to do.  But, often, he ran much of his own route, and only hired people within
his family to do the work, as he didn't necessarily trust others (considering
how he acquired the route, I could understand why). 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3021605</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 19:04:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3021605</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3021605@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>From what I understand is the post office gets its money from the sale of stamps and services, however the post office can get "loans" from the government.  So it is all a matter of creative accounting.</p>
<p>I have heard suggestions  such as delivery every other day, but the union would get upset about that.</p>
<p>UPS is unionized, Fed Ex is not.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3021600</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 18:49:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3021600</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3021600@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Interesting</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Verizon had 46,000 workers on strike in August who were counted as  unemployed. The strike is now over and those workers will add to  employment in September <span style="color: #339966;"><a href="http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/06/want-jobs-have-faith/"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em>(LINK)</em></span></a></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p>So will they brag about "creating" 50,000 jobs?</p>
<p>It is all in the numbers...</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3021534</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 15:15:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3021534</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3021534@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I thought the postal service's income was taken by the federal government
in some fashion. 
  
 Mind you, I don't understand that relationship at all... are they, or are
they not, a private organization?  If they're private, how can the government
get its hooks into the organization so thoroughly without also being able
to do this to UPS, FedEx, etc? 
  
 As for the unionization of the Postal system... well... honestly... the workers
are squeezed pretty tight there.  I don't like to hold up for unions, as a
rule, but I think if they are unionized, it must be a terrible union for how
they get treated. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3021500</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 13:57:19 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3021500</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3021500@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[So with that out of the way, let's talk about the US Postal Service! 
  
 The long and short of it is: they're going broke.  By their own admission.
 [http://goo.gl/ZRtPN] 
  
 [ Obligatory rant about how unions accelerate the destruction of the economy
is included herein by reference. ] 
  
 It's a tough position for them to be in.  The USPS is not funded by taxes
and must be self-sustaining, but on the other hand, it can't downsize because
its union won't tolerate that.  It can, however, borrow mega-billions from
the Federal Treasury. 
  
 So there you have it.  An organization that is broke and union-hamstrung
(the post office) borrowing money from a larger organization that is broke
and union-hamstrung (the federal government) and taxpayers get stuck holding
the bag. 
  
 Then when honest hard working taxpayers call for an end to this nonsense,
union leaders declare war on us by saying
"let's take these sons of bitches out" [http://goo.gl/dLNED]. 
  
  
 I'm so incredibly sick of this.  Unions served their purpose a century ago
but it's time for them to be disbanded, every last one of them.  Jimmy Hoffa
Jr. needs to be stabbed in the face with a Buick. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3021491</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 13:39:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3021491</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3021491@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>haha, so it  is the PhD of trolling.</p>
<p>Poe's law is interesting, thanks for the education! (Something like that happened to me when I founded the "Christians and Atheists united against  sneaking Agnosticism" group on a socialist network I was once part of. Lot's of people joined the group and seriously discussed why the whole thing was wrong. [Or they were trolling me back, you never know])</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3021476</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 13:07:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3021476</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3021476@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Mon Sep 05 2011 20:15:30 EDT</span> <span>from   IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">the_mgt : yes, the Westboro folks are pretty wacko, but keep in mind that the liberal media deliberately overblows and magnifies these stories as part of their effort to impose an atheocratic government.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>so I was pointed to</p>
<p>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christwire</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3021260</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 04:45:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3021260</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3021260@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Mon Sep 05 2011 10:18:18 EDT</span> <span>from   Ladyhawke @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div>Another nice thing is that most of them have have an agreement whereby if a member is unable to pick up their portion on time, it gets donated to an agency or family in need (vs getting double sold or going to waste).</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Ok, won't happen here, since they also do shipping.</p>
<p>Also the local disposal rate has shrunk ever since.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3021258</link><pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 04:44:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3021258</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3021258@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Mon Sep 05 2011 09:36:03 EDT</span> <span>from   the_mgt @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p><a href="http://christwire.org/2011/09/7-things-barack-obama-and-hitler-have-in-common/" target="webcit01">http://christwire.org/2011/09/7-things-barack-obama-and-hitler-have-in-common/</a></p>
<p>Seriously, either this site and those Westboro Baptist Church guys all own PhDs in trolling or they are seriously mentally disturbed. Here in germany, we only fear the muslim bros, as our minister for inner affairs never gets tired to remark. But if I were living over there, I would seriously fear some christian fundamentalists.</p>
<p>Still, this quote is the most funny and ubar epic troll sentence evar:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Both leaders were birthed out of wedlock and as the Bible and a quick look around an anti-abortion protest will quickly tell you, most single moms are also liberal lesbians.</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I wish those guys the experience of living in a KZ for some months.</p>
<p>If they survive, they probably know they were missing the point.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3021123</link><pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 21:20:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3021123</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3021123@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>What the media leaves out is that Fred Felps was a fund raiser for Al Gore.  (<a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=al+gore+westboro+baptist+church"><strong>LINK</strong></a>)  He also endorsed Bill Clinton.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3021105</link><pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 20:15:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3021105</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3021105@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[the_mgt : yes, the Westboro folks are pretty wacko, but keep in mind that
the liberal media deliberately overblows and magnifies these stories as part
of their effort to impose an atheocratic government. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3020972</link><pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 10:18:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3020972</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3020972@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>mgt, that line was so funny it was hard to take seriously enough for the offense the writer intended.</p>
<p>What Bart described we in the States call CSAs (Community Supported Agriculture agreements).  They're fantastic, I agree.  Especially during the last few years when I've not been able to keep my own garden, it's a welcome alternative to the super market.  The food tastes so much better and, at least here, our winter crops go far beyond cabbage.  Last year they had several different types of squash, fall corns, fall beans, cabbage, and a number of root vegetable harvests (like beets, late carrots, parsnips, etc).  Another nice thing is that most of them have have an agreement whereby if a member is unable to pick up their portion on time, it gets donated to an agency or family in need (vs getting double sold or going to waste).</p>
<p>Many CSA's here offer organic options - and some even offer local eggs and meat.  I don't purchose those as I keep kosher, but if I ever find a kosher CSA, I'd love to do that, too.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3020971</link><pubDate>Mon, 05 Sep 2011 09:36:03 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3020971</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3020971@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>http://christwire.org/2011/09/7-things-barack-obama-and-hitler-have-in-common/</p>
<p>Seriously, either this site and those Westboro Baptist Church guys all own PhDs in trolling or they are seriously mentally disturbed. Here in germany, we only fear the muslim bros, as our minister for inner affairs never gets tired to remark. But if I were living over there, I would seriously fear some christian fundamentalists.</p>
<p>Still, this quote is the most funny and ubar epic troll sentence evar:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Both leaders were birthed out of wedlock and as the Bible and a quick look around an anti-abortion protest will quickly tell you, most single moms are also liberal lesbians.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Also I wholeheartly agree with dothebart, despite the problem that you will mostly eat cabbage in winters.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3019813</link><pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2011 18:57:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3019813</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3019813@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>up to 50% of all food produced in the western wold is disposed.</p>
<p>http://www.taste-the-waste.de/</p>
<p>the methane produced by the rotting of that food could be lined up against 50% of the co2 exhausted by cars...</p>
<p>seems as if one way to cope the problem is to choose a 'veggie box'-distribution; where a local farmer mixes a box of localy produced veggies for his subscribers;</p>
<p>that way he can better evaluate whats needed than the supermarket, who is dependand on whoever comes in.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>we've got such a  box for half a year now. (well i'm not in charge of cooking...) but it sort of wokrs like that:</p>
<p>on sunday you get the preselection for your box, the next week pricelist comes with the last weeks box.</p>
<p>you that can choose to add or remove parts from the order. (via webif)</p>
<p>some days later, the delivery truck stops by, drops the box, picks up the empty stuff from the last week.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The next box, or the other cheap offerings give the puzzle for the menu for the next week; sometimes you learn new foods which you wouldn't have chosen in the supermarket...</p>
<p>My Chief Menu Officer, Katie, seems to be pretty satisfied with all that; the mouths to feed also.</p>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3019048</link><pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2011 11:47:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3019048</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3019048@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >When is the last time government was reduced?  Government will never  
  
 As a percent of GDP, federal expenditures in the post WWII period peaked
in the late 70s. Source: st. louis fed, http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/06/01/GarrettRhine.pdf

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3019047</link><pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2011 11:38:57 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3019047</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3019047@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Fri Sep 02 2011 10:53:54 EDT</span> <span>from   IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">This would also *significantly* reduce the size of the IRS.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>When is the last time government was reduced?  Government will never allow itself to shrink.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3019044</link><pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2011 11:19:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3019044</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3019044@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 s/activists/advocates/ 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3019043</link><pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2011 11:18:28 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3019043</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3019043@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Whether you agree or disagree with this, it's an interesting line of reason
for all of the consumption tax activists out there: 
  
 http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/17/why-im-soft-on-sales-taxes/ 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3019041</link><pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2011 11:13:48 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3019041</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3019041@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/18/cheese-eating-vat-paying-surrender-monkeys/

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3019040</link><pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2011 11:10:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3019040</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3019040@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 At first blush a flat income tax seems less worse than a consumption tax.
The economy needs consumption, so all things being equal we're better off
taxing elsewhere. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3019031</link><pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2011 10:53:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3019031</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3019031@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Replacing all income taxes with a consumption tax is a plausible idea.  At
the moment I'm somewhat concerned with this topic, actually:  Alan Kreuger,
the new Chairman of the White House Council lf Economic Advisers, is a big
advocate of VAT.  This is scary because if the current crop of money-grabbers
implement a VAT, they will want to implement it *in addition to* the existing
income taxes, rather than as a replacement. 
  
 Personally I think they should just implement a flat tax.  No deductions,
no brackets, just give the government 10% of what you made last year and call
it a day.  This would also *significantly* reduce the size of the IRS, which
would be a huge savings. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3019010</link><pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2011 10:18:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3019010</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3019010@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Mon Aug 15 2011 22:01:11 EDT</span> <span>from   IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />It's been argued that one way to make things "equitable" (which is what the tax-and-spenders keep saying they want) would be to eliminate income taxes altogether, and switch entirely to consumption taxes.  So it doesn't matter how much money you made -- you get taxed when you spend it.  <br /><br />This would greatly simplify the tax code.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>I purposely "forgot" this thread, but last night I decided my blood pressure wasn't high enough and decided to look around.  IGnatius, have you read the <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060875496/sr=8-2/qid=1143644093/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-8721387-7781765?_encoding=UTF8">Fair Tax book</a>?  Interesting read but I am not sure enough people would understand what is going on.  People might not notice they had more money in their pockets but they would notice they are paying more at the purchase time.  Some people think it would create a black market, which I don't think it would be any bigger then the current black market.  I just don't think a consumption tax would work, I like the idea.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The problem is people don't realize all the hidden taxes they pay.</p></body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3018187</link><pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2011 09:23:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3018187</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3018187@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Wed Aug 31 2011 07:10:36 AM EDT</span> <span>from   saltine @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">What if time travellers killed JFK because he triggered WWIII?  <br />Makes sense.. Their timetime changed the moment the shot went off and the gunmen were no more...</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Wait... that theory actually makes more sense than the BS that's been passed around for several decades.<br /><br /></p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3018139</link><pubDate>Wed, 31 Aug 2011 07:10:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3018139</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3018139@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[What if time travellers killed JFK because he triggered WWIII? 
 Makes sense.. Their timetime changed the moment the shot went off and the
gunmen were no more... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3017463</link><pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2011 16:32:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3017463</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3017463@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Yeah, but he had help.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3017448</link><pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2011 15:31:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3017448</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3017448@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Elvis shot JFK, actually. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3015314</link><pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2011 14:05:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3015314</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3015314@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 (Yeah, yeah, here I go, wildly saying something without a lick of evidence
to support me... just so you're aware that I'm aware of this). 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3015313</link><pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2011 14:05:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3015313</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3015313@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Yeah, and I suppose Elvis didn't, either, but other certainly have. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3014926</link><pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 22:14:19 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3014926</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3014926@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Uncle Enzo didn't. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3014608</link><pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:31:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3014608</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3014608@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 The rich manage to find ways of avoiding drafts, or avoiding risks associated
with wars. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3014597</link><pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:18:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3014597</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3014597@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I did my stint in the National Guard; my pay met my expectations. Of course
that's before "hawks" decided that National Guard = slave for overseas boondoggle
deployments. (Of which would come to a quick stop re: my earlier draft statement).
 I think a draft is one of the best ways of stopping wars.  Vote for more
war mongering, vote to kill your children and grandchildren. Not just the
poor disposible soldiers and the "other" patriots the rich can care less about.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3014129</link><pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:47:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3014129</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3014129@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 More ad-hominem attacks from Fox News, this time directed at "socialist"
Warren Buffett. Cowardice and intellectual laziness, all rolled into one.

  
 No, I'm not surprised. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3014081</link><pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 20:29:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3014081</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3014081@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Because soldiers shouldn't be paid for the privilege of serving our country.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3014032</link><pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 16:05:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3014032</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3014032@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[id cut military spending on everythink except m16s ICBMS and satellites 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3012614</link><pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 01:26:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3012614</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3012614@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[When I was unemployed in 2003, you just had to certify that you did 3 job
search-related activities each week to get paid.  you were to keep a journal,
but no one ever asked for mine. 
  
 for added fail, the web page required IE 5.5. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3012544</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:19:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3012544</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3012544@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >It would be a good exercise to determine where the current taxation    
 >stands along the Laffer curve.  I suspect that we are closer to the  
 
    
 My opinion is that we're not quite there, due to the current liquidity trap,
but we're a close. A small taxation increase very carefully targetted, while
extending the payroll tax cuts, could be tolerated by those who can most afford
it, and would mainly serve to get high-net-worth individuals and corporations
paying more of their fair share. They pay lower rates than we do!   
    
 Too much of an increase would undoubtedly have a contractionary effect, as
would any spending cuts at all, the problem however is that spending cuts
are going to go straight to savings accounts and not contribute to pump-priming.
  
    
 Another thing to look at very carefully would be the disincentives resulting
from unemployment insurance. It's possible
that freshwater economists are making too much hay out of this, though; most
unemployment benefits are heavily tied to the number of jobs you apply for.
Stop applying for jobs, lose your benefits. At least that's the way it was
when I was growing up in Maine and my mom was briefly unemployed.   
  
  
 Ultimately, however, the economy is not going to recover until the current
trend of consumer deleveraging has bottomed out. Anything that can help that
along is fair game for discussion, including: 
  
 * loose Fed policy 
 * homeowner tax credits 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3012532</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 20:34:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3012532</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3012532@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>
<p>It would be a good exercise to determine where the current taxation stands along the Laffer curve.  I suspect that we are closer to the peak of the curve *with* the Bush tax-cuts-for-everyone in place, and further to the right of the peak without them.  From this it would stand to reason that increasing taxes  at this time will actually decrease revenue.</p>
<p>As I've mentioned before, it is generally understood that raising taxes does <em>not</em> increase revenue, as this chart shows:</p>
</p>
<p><img src="http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/charts/2011/income-tax-receipts-600.jpg" alt="" width="601" height="536" /></p>
<p>[ Go to <a href="http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/income-tax-receipts">http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/income-tax-receipts</a> if you can't see the image ]</p>
<p>If one accepts that tax hikes will not increase revenue, it stands to reason that the only option available is spending cuts.  I'm not going to be partisan about it either -- I think all of the unnecessary foreign wars are just as cuttable as the unnecessary social welfare programs.</p>
<p>"Tax reform" means different things to different people.  I would advocate a flat tax.  No brackets, but no deductions either.  And furthermore, income from all sources (payroll, investments, etc) can be taxed equally.  10% across the board.  Not only would this make taxation more equitable, but the vastly reduced complexity would allow the IRS and related bureaucracies to be vastly reduced in size, further shrinking the cost burden imposed by an oversized public sector.</p>
<p>Simple problems have simple solutions.  This is a simple problem, whether the political elite want to admit it or not.  All that stands in the way are special interest groups.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3012377</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 11:31:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3012377</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3012377@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Er, as for my position, I think I'm already on record as suggesting that
we need both budget cuts and some taxation increases to fix our current mess.

  
 Although, increasingly, I suspect we need taxation adjustments moreso than
increases. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3012376</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 11:29:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3012376</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3012376@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 LS: 
  
 I was talking to Sig, forgetting it was saltine, explaining what I thought
IG was writing, rather than actually trying to advance an argument or anything.
 Kind of a complete fail on my part, really, but the total confusion at least
amuses me. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3012362</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 10:53:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3012362</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3012362@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Sorry, I meant saltine, not Sig.  However we welcome Sig's opinion as well
 :) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3012342</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 09:31:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3012342</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3012342@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Aug 17 2011 8:53am from Sig @uncnsrd   
 >Perhaps it was some sort of Big Brother mechanism at play.  "You! We   
 >see you there, mindlessly hitting the space bar, not really paying   
 >attention.  What do YOU think?"   
 >   
 >  
  
 Oh, were you talking to Sig? I already commented to the effect that spending
cuts were needed. 
  
 The only big problem with spending cuts is that they may take tools away
from the Fed, but that's a little trickier of a conclusion to jump to. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3012340</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 09:29:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3012340</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3012340@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Well, our government has been spending money willy-nilly for a couple 
 
 >of decades now.  Adding taxes (or restructuring them, or whatever)   
 >won't really solve the problem as well as reducing our expenditures so 
 
 >that you don't need to tax as much.   
 >    
 > So, what sort of programs do you think the government should drop, to 
 
 >help save more money?   
  
 No. YOU need to answer that second question, you're the one who's in favor
of the unbalanced approach that threatens to destroy the government as we
know it. You need to explain how the government would continue to function
under a Ron Paul or a Gary Johnson. 
  
 Spending cuts alone don't solve the problem. Spending cuts are the same-old
Republican same-old that helped get us where we are today. Spending cuts alone
will leave us with a big deficit. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3012329</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 08:58:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3012329</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3012329@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Oh, I forgot that it's Mandatory Participation In Discussions Day! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3012325</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 08:53:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3012325</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3012325@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Perhaps it was some sort of Big Brother mechanism at play.  "You! We see you
there, mindlessly hitting the space bar, not really paying attention.  What
do YOU think?" 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3012313</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 08:25:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3012313</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3012313@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Heh, I suspect IG might have meant 'saltine'. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3012158</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 01:06:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3012158</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3012158@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[OK, I get the question; I'm just not sure how I got pulled into this.  I generally
avoid political discussions. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3012149</link><pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 23:15:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3012149</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3012149@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Well, our government has been spending money willy-nilly for a couple of
decades now.  Adding taxes (or restructuring them, or whatever) won't really
solve the problem as well as reducing our expenditures so that you don't need
to tax as much. 
  
 So, what sort of programs do you think the government should drop, to help
save more money? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3012130</link><pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 21:49:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3012130</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3012130@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Sig, some of your ideas have merit but I don't see anything in there  

 >about reducing excessive government spending, which is what got us into
 
 >such a pickle in the first place.  What would you *cut* ?   
  
 Er. What? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3011920</link><pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 10:55:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3011920</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3011920@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I'm not a fan of flat taxes, but what we have right now is a bell-curve tax
with the hump centered over the middle class. In the midst of a liquidity
trap, there is not very much sense in maintaining the current tax loopholes
that allow, for example, fund managers to mis-classify much of their income
as carried interest, taxed at 15%. Let me be clear, I'm no fan of investment
taxes but firms aren't investing. So it's time for: 
  
 * spending cuts above and beyond the currently mandated additional 1.5T 
 * tax restructuring for greater fairness resulting in an increase of net
revenue. 
 * rollback of Obamacare before it takes effect. 
  
 Unfortunately, there are no candidates currently running for office that
support this particular combination of views. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3011901</link><pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 10:00:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3011901</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3011901@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I dislike consumption tax because it punishes the poor more than the rich
unless food and clothes are exempt as well as transportation tokens and medical
care. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3011821</link><pubDate>Mon, 15 Aug 2011 22:01:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3011821</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3011821@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Wow, that's all over the map. 
  
 It's been argued that one way to make things "equitable" (which is what the
tax-and-spenders keep saying they want) would be to eliminate income taxes
altogether, and switch entirely to consumption taxes.  So it doesn't matter
how much money you made -- you get taxed when you spend it. 
  
 This would greatly simplify the tax code. 
  
 Of course, implementing such a thing would be dangerous because the tax-and-spenders
would attempt to get *both* in place. 
  
 Sig, some of your ideas have merit but I don't see anything in there about
reducing excessive government spending, which is what got us into such a pickle
in the first place.  What would you *cut* ? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3011652</link><pubDate>Mon, 15 Aug 2011 10:03:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3011652</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3011652@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[And tax people like me with bad grammar. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3011651</link><pubDate>Mon, 15 Aug 2011 10:01:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3011651</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3011651@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[My platform:     
      
 Elimination of Corporate Income Tax     
      
 Increase top tax bracket by 2%     
      
 Limit home loan interest deduction to first 300K of principal value     
      
 Switch stock profit tax rates to the same as normal income     
      
 Reduce dividend earning taxes to the same as normal income bottom bracket
    
      
 Institute a draft for 50% of the standing armed forces; no exception for
the rich or university students.     
      
 Add 50 cent excise tax to auto gas and diesel to fund sustainable electric
generation plants for    
 electric automobiles.   
    
 Add back in corporate income tax for companies who do not provide dental
and health coverage for their employees.   
    
 Increase personal income tax rate by 1% for citizens of states who's students
fail to meet federally mandated eduation levels.   
  
  
 Add back in corporate income tax for companies who not employ at least 50%
of their employees in-country. 
  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3011352</link><pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2011 18:02:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3011352</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3011352@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>mmm....butta!  err...cake!</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3011148</link><pubDate>Fri, 12 Aug 2011 17:19:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3011148</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3011148@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 "To continue reading, subscribe." 
  
 Grrr.... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3010949</link><pubDate>Fri, 12 Aug 2011 08:24:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3010949</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3010949@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904823804576502481646797782.html

Raters Fail to See Defaults Coming
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3010817</link><pubDate>Thu, 11 Aug 2011 20:05:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3010817</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3010817@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<goes looking for some cake to hand out> 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3010688</link><pubDate>Thu, 11 Aug 2011 11:32:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3010688</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3010688@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA["More people pay attention"  Ha.  Just as long as people get their 'free'
stuff they wont care.   The people in power know that as long as they provide
free stuff they will stay in power. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3010535</link><pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2011 21:33:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3010535</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3010535@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >part of the problem, heh... we sorta need to do something rash to   
 >correct the borrowing to which we've become addicted.   
  
 This is the truth.  We (and by "we" I mean the establishmentarian pols in
DC) need a swift slap in the face.  We need to have our credit cards cut up.
 Hopefully the well-deserved downgrade will get more people to pay attention.

  
 If not, the next step after a few more downgrades will be for the world to
decide that the US Dollar isn't going to be the worldwide reserve currency
anymore.  And THAT, my friends, will hurt in a big way, because it would remove
all of the leverage the Fed has over world finances. 
  
 There is of course an opinion one may hold (and I do) that this has been
the goal all along, being pursued by a certain faction of the ruling elite
who do not believe in American exceptionalism. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3010506</link><pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2011 19:03:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3010506</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3010506@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > I'm sure the Fed won't do anything rash.     
    
 *snicker*   
  
  
 You sure? ;) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3010331</link><pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2011 08:37:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3010331</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3010331@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I'm sure the Fed won't do anything rash.  That hasn't been the way we've
done things for a while now.  Although, I suppose, that could be part of the
problem, heh... we sorta need to do something rash to correct the borrowing
to which we've become addicted. 
  
 I expect hard times, for a while, for this country.  I see some numbers that
look similar to the Great Depression, although we aren't quite there yet.

  
 That said, we figured out a way out of that... I'm sure we can get ourselves
out of this mess, too.  Hopefully, it won't involve warfare. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3010049</link><pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 11:49:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3010049</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3010049@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3009843</link><pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 22:43:07 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3009843</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3009843@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt    
 >    
 > Scroll down to "Risks to the U.S. dollar and economy."  In particular,
    
 >read about 'Rollover and maturity risks'.    
    
 Ok, I stand corrected. But I still don't think it matters as much as you
might think. There is a bottomless market for US bonds, by definition, and
the Fed is targeting a zero interest rate.   
  
  
 What might happen, though, if investor preferences shift away from T-Bonds,
is more pressure on the Fed to pursue quantitative easing... basically, they
can do that if they want, but the extent to which they do so depends (as with
every other decision they make) on whether they blink... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3009841</link><pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 22:39:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3009841</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3009841@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >what will happen... but I wouldn't be surprised if the Fed raised   
 >interest rates at least a little to help pay down this bulk of debt.  
  
 Ok, you should be very surprised. Raising interest rates will put pressure
on the Treasury, not the other way around. Moreover, things are going to keep
looking like post-1991 Japan for the foreseeable future. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3009795</link><pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 20:19:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3009795</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3009795@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Not buying this, even remotely. The government is constantly issuing a    
 >variety of bonds with a variety of maturities. At any given time some     
 >are maturing and many new T-Bills and T-Bonds are being sold to replace    
 >them, I think it's all a wash.     

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

 Scroll down to "Risks to the U.S. dollar and economy."  In particular, 
read about 'Rollover and maturity risks'.

 During the financial crisis, the Treasury issued a sizable amount of 
relatively shorter-term debt, which caused the average maturity on total 
Treasury debt to reach a 25-year low of just over 50 months in 2009.

 Also, we have foreign debt that becomes due around that time, too.

 This said, a friend of mine pointed out that our economy isn't in a 
vacuum... manipulating the dollar by increasing inflation will only 
impact things so much as far as foreign
debt is concerned, as they'll 
just adjust their currency accordingly.  So, it's hard to say precisely 
what will happen... but I wouldn't be surprised if the Fed raised 
interest rates at least a little to help pay down this bulk of debt.
  
  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3009695</link><pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 15:53:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3009695</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3009695@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >leveraging blame and start fixing the problem.  Spend less, borrow   
 >less, pay off your debt.  It isn't rocket science.   
  
 Work harder, stop being a lazy turd, make more money, pay off your debt.
It isn't rocket science. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3009693</link><pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 15:52:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3009693</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3009693@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3009692</link><pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 15:52:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3009692</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3009692@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >By the way ... the idea that a failure to raise the debt ceiling would 
     
 >result in a default was nothing but scaremongering.  What would have   
   
 >happened instead would have been a forced 40% cut in spending to make  
    
 >up the difference.       
      
 Maybe. The problem is, if Congress fails to act, they have basically ceded
their jobs to the office of the President, and via inaction, granted him with
emergency powers.     
      
 Suddenly, the executive branch is 100% in charge of deciding what gets cut.
And don't believe for a moment that the debt ceiling wouldn't have been raised
again under the "extraordinary accounting powers" that they used when this
happened the first time back in 2009.     
      
 I'm uncomfortable with having that much power in one place.     
    
  
  
 There was a contingency plan in place within the administration as to what
they would
do if Congress fails to act. They wouldn't say what that plan was. That should
creep you out. When something similar happened during the Clinton years, Bill
Clinton shut down the government ahead of time - it was, at least, clear what
he intended. 
  
 Plus.. you have to believe the government's own bean counters when they say
they won't be able to keep paying the interest on the debt if the ceiling
isn't lifted... a government shutdown might not have been enough, with little
cash on hand. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3009663</link><pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 14:17:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3009663</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3009663@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[By the way ... the idea that a failure to raise the debt ceiling would result
in a default was nothing but scaremongering.  What would have happened instead
would have been a forced 40% cut in spending to make up the difference. 
  
 Disruptive?  Sure.  Painful?  Hell yes.  But perhaps it's time for them to
be forced to do something effective for a change. 
  
 At this very moment, that guy who lives in the White House is giving a speech
about how we need to raise taxes and how it's everyone else's fault that we're
in the position we are now.  It's time to stop leveraging blame and start
fixing the problem.  Spend less, borrow less, pay off your debt.  It isn't
rocket science. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3009603</link><pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 10:58:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3009603</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3009603@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Perhaps, but it stands to reason that the Tea Party is now so well represented
in the first place is because the American people have had enough of all the
other (failed) approaches.  How many more times can we say "ok, we'll raise
the debt ceiling just this one more time, and then we'll cut spending, really,
this time we mean it!" 
  
 We've seen that movie before, and we know how it ends: with yet another sequel.

  
 With $1.17 of new spending for every $1.00 of new taxation, and no one else
willing to actually tackle the real problem, I ca't say I blame the Tea Party
patriots for taking such an uncompromising stance.  Without them, it's likely
that the debt ceiling would have been raised with either no cuts, with a tax
hike, or both. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3009436</link><pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 21:21:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3009436</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3009436@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >a stop to it RIGHT NOW.     
    
 Yeah, the screaming, sky-is-falling RIGHT NOW part is the problem, whether
you want to admit it or not... these are people who are so (erroneously, as
it happens) so convinced that it needs to stop RIGHT NOW that they're willing
to destroy the country, massively increase waste and inefficiency in order
to see their preferred solution put in place. The simple fact of the matter
is that the "right now" part is exactly what we don't need. What happens in
the near term has very little bearing on the long term.   
  
  
 Whether you want to admit it or not, those who would condone default simply
to avoid raising the real debt limit are, yes, terrorists and traitors. And
since I'm on such a roll, Sarah Palin apologists are all SEXIST!!1 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3009435</link><pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 21:08:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3009435</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3009435@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Somewhat related to this, it's my understand that a lot of our debt   
 >will need to be paid back within three years.  In those years, we'll   
 >keep the interest rates as low as possible, to avoid having to pay too 
 
 >much money back (when we sorta don't really have it).  After those   
 >three years pass, though, we'll probably inflate our currency to make  

 >it easier to pay that debt down.   
  
 Not buying this, even remotely. The government is constantly issuing a variety
of bonds with a variety of maturities. At any given time some are maturing
and many new T-Bills and T-Bonds are being sold to replace them, I think it's
all a wash. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3009417</link><pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 20:03:47 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3009417</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3009417@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 The news states things like "The Tea Party caused the downgrade" despite
the fact that the downgrade was stated as caused by the government not having
done enough to reduce its debt. 
  
 That's very sloppy journalism. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3009413</link><pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 19:36:38 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3009413</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3009413@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[All of what fleeb said, plus one more bit: I find it outrageous that the Tea
Party people, who are the *only* sensible voices in an otherwise out-of-control
crowd, are being painted as troublemakers, as "terrorists" or as "racists"
 
  
 All they're asserting is that we've had enough, this can't go on anymore
(as is evidenced in this week's downgrade) and it's time to put a stop to
it RIGHT NOW. 
  
 It's not a difficult problem to solve.  The problem is that everyone wants
it solved in ways that makes it someone else's problem.  The liberals want
more social welfare and union labor; the neocons want to meddle in unnecessary
foreign wars.  Guess what, folks?  WE'RE BROKE.  STOP SPENDING. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3009388</link><pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 18:20:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3009388</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3009388@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 LS: 
  
 I think it's unfair to think of them as traitors.  By logical extention,
both the Democrats and Republicans are traitors for creating this ridiculous
debt.  Similarly, I think these people you describe intend to force the government
to stop spending money like it's limitless, and correct its out-of-control
spending habits. 
  
 I can't say whether or not this was the best way to do it, but we're in a
pickle; both parties are stuck in this rut where they expand spending in an
effort to get more votes from the folks who benefit from this expenditure.
 In the end, though, our children pay the price for this irresponsibility.

  
 So, how do you break the cycle?  How do you correct this insanity, when neither
party has the will to do it on their own?  Apparently, you freak them the
fuck out. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3009386</link><pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 18:09:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3009386</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3009386@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 (Incidentally, those are the opinions someone else in Google+ said marked
me as being an idiot about the financial world... maybe you guys will have
something more useful to say about what I wrote than 'BS'). 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3009384</link><pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 18:08:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3009384</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3009384@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Well, I think the downgrade will mean *something*. 
  
 I think it will impact your homebuying experience, because you won't get
the really low interest rate you may have come to expect.  And, honestly,
that might be just about it.  Maybe. 
  
 It's unprecedented, though.  So it's hard to say precisely what will happen.
Still, we're in a bad spot.  If we do not correct our debt ratio soon, we'll
be in the position of no longer being able to call the shots... and then things
will suck. 
  
 Somewhat related to this, it's my understand that a lot of our debt will
need to be paid back within three years.  In those years, we'll keep the interest
rates as low as possible, to avoid having to pay too much money back (when
we sorta don't really have it).  After those three years pass, though, we'll
probably inflate our currency to make it easier to pay that debt down. 
  
 Soo... how do you prepare for that? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3009368</link><pubDate>Sun, 07 Aug 2011 16:28:19 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3009368</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3009368@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 What does the downgrade mean? Not a whole heck of a lot, and everybody knows
it. It's been called "outrageous" by both the left and the right (Krugman,
Forbes) for different reasons. (Krugman because he doesn't believe the deficit
is a problem, and Forbes because he does but maintains that we're still able
to pay our debts.) 
  
 Some of the arithmetic is telling; if you buy Krugman's figures, 1 trillion
of additional debt adds only 0.07% of GDB to the debt-service costs down the
line. This leads to credibility problems for S&P.  
  
 All things being equal, I'd prefer to see a balanced budget or at least a
slowing down of the growth of debt relative to GDP. But it's important to
keep some perspective. You've got some serious mental patients that somehow
got elected during the midterms, these are the ideologues who simply don't
even support the Fed's existence and would never vote to
increase the debt ceiling under any circumstances, even if not doing so meant
default or economy-crippling tax increases. 
  
 Bluntly, these people are traitors. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3008756</link><pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:42:38 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3008756</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3008756@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[S&P did the right thing.  As I understand it, they were getting bullied by
the White House over this, but they stood their ground and gave the US government
the downgrade it deserves. 
  
 This will hurt but we deserve it.  Are you paying attention, Moody's?  DOWNGRADE
US.  Downgrade us until it hurts.  Downgrade us until we start electing people
who know how to balance a checkbook and pay off a credit card. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3008754</link><pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:35:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3008754</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3008754@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Well, the government did lose its AAA rating, despite not having defaulted.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3008572</link><pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 12:20:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3008572</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3008572@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ Ya know, I think IG might be onto something when he says that the U.S. gov't
should lose its AAA credit rating.  I got in over my head with credit card
debt.  I tried to do the "right thing" by calling up the credit card companies
and seeing if there was any way to negotiate a better interest rate, payment
plan, whatever.  None of them wanted to help.  Until, that is, when I was
no longer able to pay them.  Then, all of a sudden, they were calling me up
offerring low-interest payment plans. 
  
 If the U.S. gov't actually went ahead and defaulted, sure there would be
some pretty dire consequences to our economy.  However, with all the money
that's owed, I'm sure someone out there would rather bite the bullet and negotiate
a lower rate than to not get anything at all.  Not a tactic I'd necessarily
approve of as more as an option to consider if things really do hit the fan.

   Default Binder 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3007560</link><pubDate>Wed, 03 Aug 2011 11:46:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3007560</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3007560@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 They were bluffing, all along... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3007358</link><pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2011 14:51:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3007358</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3007358@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[No death boards for the tea party terrorists? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3007290</link><pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2011 10:06:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3007290</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3007290@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I like the Donner Party idea.  Then we can go around saying "Congress Will
Eat Itself" 
  
 The college fund analogy would work well if it was the child who was putting
money into it, only to have the account raided by mom and dad to pay for a
new house. 
  
 Now with the "deal" finished, we have a weird situation: all sides are simultaneously
declaring victory *and* blaming the others for how bad the deal is.  Particularly
heinous was the Biden/Doyle series of comments calling the tea party hardliners
"terrorists" because they "have made it impossible to spend any money."  WTF?
 The only ones who are actually serious about reining in spending are being
compared to religious fanatics who kill innocent civilians? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3007277</link><pubDate>Tue, 02 Aug 2011 09:19:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3007277</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3007277@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[LS - I agree on the spending habit issue. IG - I only partially agree with
the Ponzi scheme statement. Yes. It is a Ponzi Scheme. No. We wouldn't be
close to having problems with it if the idiots in DC hadn't decided to raid
the trust to pay for their spending habits.  
  
 It's like takign your kids college education fund to pay for your new house.
You have a nice house, but your kid is going to grow up and IF you want to
pay for their college you won't be able to. (Of course this doesn't entail
the fact that the kid could work and go or do other things so it's not the
greatest of analogies) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3007128</link><pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2011 22:31:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3007128</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3007128@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >boomers to start dying off faster than expected.  Way faster.  Sooner  

 >or later, every Ponzi scheme must collapse.   
  
 Donner Party 2012. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3007127</link><pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2011 22:30:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3007127</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3007127@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ ] 
 I'm sure there are plenty of municipal bonds that are not AAA rated. The
AAA thing only really applies to Treasuries. 
  
 But basically, it boils down to this: you ran up your credit card too high.
You still **pay the bill.* And fix your spending habits. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3007101</link><pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2011 20:52:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3007101</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3007101@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[The only thing that can save Social Security now would be for the baby boomers
to start dying off faster than expected.  Way faster.  Sooner or later, every
Ponzi scheme must collapse. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3007074</link><pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2011 18:24:03 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3007074</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3007074@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Well, if they don't pay social security out, they should allow the rest of
us to stop paying into the damned thing. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3007026</link><pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2011 15:35:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3007026</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3007026@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Oh it's an uphill battle all right.  Liberals want to spend more on "social
welfare" programs, and neocons want to spend more on unnecessary foreign wars.
 It's only the libertarians and paleocons (aka "tea party") who actually want
to fix the problem.  And the reason those groups make up a minority (although
the results of the 2010 elections suggest that this may change) is because
everyone wants spending cuts, but only to programs which benefit someone else.

  
 Quite frankly I think the government deserves to lose the AAA rating on its
municipal bonds.  They've proven that they're not financially responsible.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3007011</link><pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2011 14:43:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3007011</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3007011@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ The Penny Plan definitely does sound appealing, but as that web page mentions
right at the top, Social Security and Medicare would have to take cuts under
the plan.  Though my personal opinion is that with some restructuring and
retrofitting, SS and Medicare could absorb those cuts without affecting payouts.
 However, I'm just a computer engineer who's never had to rely on either,
or ever been on a gov't payroll, so there may not be much streamlining to
be done to either--though I highly doubt that.  Regardless, though, any cuts
to either of those programs will be met with a lot of resistance--at least
from the constituency, if not the representatives themselves. 
  
 Even past that, though, I'd surmise that the Penny Plan would meet resistance
on both sides just for the simple fact that it would mean all those pet projects
that congress-people like to push would now be under a lot more
scrutiny.  This may affect Democrats more than Republicans if the party stereotypes
hold true, but I think everything would be fair game at that point. 
  
 Don't get me wrong, though.  I like the simplicity of the Penny Plan, and,
with my Libertarian leanings, it would most likely lead towards a smaller
government.  I just think it would have a bit of an uphill battle, to say
the least. 
   Penny Binder 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3006565</link><pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 12:13:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Editorial: &quot;compromise&quot; and the unbalanced budget</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3006565@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>This was originally posted as a response to a message my long time friend Matt H. posted on his blog [ <a href="http://technospiritualist.blog.com/2011/07/30/senator-john-boehner/">http://technospiritualist.blog.com/2011/07/30/senator-john-boehner/</a> ].  It has been slightly edited in its appearance here, mainly to detach it from the context of the original post.</p>
<hr />
<p>Many people are now calling for our governmental critters in Washington to find a "compromise" that will get us past this nasty little budgetary stalemate regarding the August 2 debt ceiling deadline.</p>
<p>They are calling for a compromise, but on what?  The reason the Tea Party exists in the first place is because partisan politics have gotten out of control.  Would a compromise involve accepting a tax hike (or as the left now calls it, "revenue enhancements")??</p>
<p>The dirty little secret that the media doesn't tell you is that the government won't pay off its credit cards just because they raised taxes.  If you look at their spending history for the last half century (enough of a time span that you can't really blame one political party or the other for this) -- for every dollar of new tax revenue the government brought in, they added $1.17 of new spending.</p>
<p>Lest anyone think I'm making this up, here's the easiest citation, although it can be confirmed elsewhere as well: [ <a href="http://goo.gl/katgJ">http://goo.gl/katgJ</a> ]</p>
<p>Tea Party reps know this.  And they're not loyal to the Republican establishment; they are loyal to the American people and the Constitution.  That's why they're taking such a hard line.  They know that a "compromise" just kicks the can down the road.</p>
<p>And because they know this, one of the things being rejected by the ideologues on the left is any "compromise" that only lasts one year.  One year should be ample time to get things in order, right?  But they know it isn't; they know that the Obama camp isn't going to take that year to say "ok, we spent too much, this health care thing is unsustainable so we'd better roll it back" -- no way, no how.  They will only accept a plan that raises the debt ceiling high enough to kick the can down the road for TWO years -- in other words, well past the 2012 election.</p>
<p>The "cut, cap, and balance" plan <strong>is</strong> a compromise.  It includes a balanced budget amendment.  When you think about it, it's insane that we even <strong>need</strong> a balanced budget amendment -- the idea of keeping the budget balanced should have been common sense and standard practice ever since the beginning.  So why is it a compromise?  Because when Boehner's camp tells you that they're willing to cut a trillion dollars, they're talking about cutting a trillion dollars from a baseline of a NINE trillion dollar increase.  Where I come from, nine minus one is eight.  That's +8.</p>
<p>Google "<a href="google.com/search?q=the%20penny%20plan">the penny plan</a>" to see what we really ought to be doing.  The penny plan balances the budget by:</p>
<ul>
<li>Cutting total federal spending by one percent each year for six consecutive years,</li>
<li>Setting an overall spending cap of 18 percent of gross domestic product in 2018, and</li>
<li>Reducing overall spending by $7.5 trillion over 10 years.</li>
</ul>
<p>[ source: <a href="http://minx.cc/?post=319378">http://minx.cc/?post=319378</a> ]</p>
<p>By the way ... the idea that rolling past the August 2 deadline without raising the debt ceiling is going to suddenly plunge the Known Universe into a catastrophic chain reaction that implodes the entire space-time continuum -- that's nothing but scaremongering.  It will indeed cause a few problems, but the sun will rise in the east on August 3.</p>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3005795</link><pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 02:51:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3005795</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3005795@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Gnaaaa, Loanshark! I didn't listen to that tune for about 20 years and now the melody of Justified &amp; Ancient haunts me!!!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>TURN UP THE STROBE!!</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3005340</link><pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2011 11:38:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3005340</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3005340@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>hahaha, never really made that connection, but know that you say it, I remember owning a mixtape in the 80s with some music by them. (I was around 10 yo then and only discovered the books 5-6 years later.)</p>
<p>About the political situation in USA, I believe in the Tzarist Occupied Government theory and the democrans/republicrats conspiracy the late RAW proposed while candidating for his Guns 'n' Dope party. http://www.gunsanddopeparty.com/</p>
<p>Equal rights for ostriches!!!</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3003416</link><pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 13:08:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3003416</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3003416@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Drummond never really did get over Kimberly getting murdered by Howard Stern,
did he. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3003319</link><pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 10:30:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3003319</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3003319@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Ahhh yes, the vast left wing conspiracy. the_mgt knows the real story behind
that one -- Obama is actually working for Bill Drummond and the KLF, Bill
wants his million quid reprinted. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3003305</link><pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 09:55:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3003305</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3003305@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I've been saying for a while now that the agenda of Obama and his socialist
pals is nothing short of the deliberate downfall of American society.  This
article covers all of the details: 
  
 [ http://goo.gl/VLVxz ] 
  
 What is known as the "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to overthrow capitalism
by overwhelming the system with impossible demands, which creates (again,
deliberately) a crisis and then eventually, collapse. 
  
 They've gotten quite far in this strategy.  Will America awaken and stop
it before completion? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=3000543</link><pubDate>Wed, 13 Jul 2011 18:56:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #3000543</title><guid isPermaLink="false">3000543@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Here we go. 
  
 [ http://goo.gl/HA7HM ] 
  
 To all the folks who said "McCain would be like a third term of Bush!!!11"

 ...and to whom we replied, even though we weren't all that fond of McCain,
that Obama would be like a second term of Jimmy Carter... 
  
 All that's left to say now is ... we told you so. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2996790</link><pubDate>Mon, 04 Jul 2011 12:13:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2996790</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2996790@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzMN2c24Y1s&amp;feature=player_embedded</p>
<p>wikileaks commercial.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2996756</link><pubDate>Mon, 04 Jul 2011 06:05:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2996756@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>cool video.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2996673</link><pubDate>Sun, 03 Jul 2011 14:29:07 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2996673</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2996673@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Here's a rather pointed atheistic perspective: why bother debating dogma?

  
 http://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell#p/u/66/I5cXWElb-GE 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2995568</link><pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:49:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2995568@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span style="font-size: 12px;"> </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">A government's answer to any problem is, of course, more government,</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p><img src="http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/100000/20000/6000/000/126074/126074.strip.print.gif" alt="" width="560" height="174" /></p>
<p> </p>
<p>exactly...</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2995404</link><pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 21:12:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2995404</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2995404@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Thought for the day: 
  
 [ http://goo.gl/JR75s ] 
  
 For nearly 70 years now, every $1.00 in new taxation has resulted in $1.17
of new governmnt spending.  This pretty much decidedly slams the door shut
on any argument that the liberals make that we need to increase taxes in order
to fix the economy. 
  
 The government needs to be cut down to a tiny fraction of its current size.
 It needs to be a lean mean machine that does little more than keep the peace.
 A government's answer to any problem is, of course, more government, and
until we put a stop to this, the statist leviathan will continue to grow out
of control until the whole world collapses. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2994954</link><pubDate>Sat, 25 Jun 2011 21:18:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2994954</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2994954@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 CIA assassinates Hugo Chavez in Cuba - they got him to smoke an exploding
cigar! Film at 11. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2994923</link><pubDate>Sat, 25 Jun 2011 16:34:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2994923</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2994923@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Yeah. It's actually very interesting how so many people think that they're mutually exclusive.</p>
<p>If you look at the order of creation in the Bible, it runs roughly parallel with the order of evolution.</p>
<p>If you go with the punctuated equilibrium theory (which, btw, is better supported by the fossil record than classical evolution), it's even easier to believe in creationism.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2994246</link><pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2011 18:14:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2994246</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2994246@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[...and yet it still fails to take into consideration the idea that the two
schools of thought are not mutually exclusive. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2994194</link><pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:50:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2994194</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2994194@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 This isn't exactly politics, yet it kind of is. 
  
 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-dudley/christian-faith-requires-_b_8763
45.html 
  
 It's an opinion piece that makes a few good points about Christianity, and
the pragmatic reasons why a Christian might accept evolution and reject creationism.

  
 Basically, I would say the author points out that evolution is a better scientific
theory than creationism (which still fails to adequately explain several things
that he lists), and that Christians should respect what God built, not what
they think God built.  Or something like that. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2993987</link><pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2011 20:51:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2993987@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>That, and if they're posting random users' password information on Twitter then they are not really only attacking the jerks trying to control the internets, are they?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2993140</link><pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2011 17:32:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2993140</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2993140@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Problem is, it will only make those guys attempt to lock down the internet
even more. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2993105</link><pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2011 16:28:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2993105@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I realy like them attacking the GEMA, which has been known for manipulating who gets what money for which music is played for quiet a while now.</p>
<p>and that with themselves using around 50% of the royalities they charge.</p>
<p>this might have been acceptable 1990, but now?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2993093</link><pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2011 16:06:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2993093</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2993093@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>note: i've also posted this on my main site (http://blurredvizionstudios.com).</p>
<p>Love it or hate it, they're doing it so we can have our internet-freedom like it's meant to be!</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2993085</link><pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2011 15:54:48 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2993085</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2993085@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Now that, my friends, is a bold undertaking: http://usat.ly/j7F0BE</p>
<p>(LulzSec and Anonymous declare war against government agencies and large corporations.)</p>
<p>:D glad to see a powerful group of hackers share my same ideals in regards to how (badly) the internet is policed by bloated corporations and know-it-all government agencies.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2992762</link><pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2011 19:37:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2992762@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>oh, and you should be able to give these privileges to more than one person.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2992761</link><pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2011 19:37:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2992761</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2992761@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I don't think its a matter of gender anyways.</p>
<p>there are quiet a bunch of rights which one should be able to give to a related person (regardless if you have sex with them or not) like:</p>
<p>- hospital access in case of accident</p>
<p>- pull the plug in case of fatal accident after n months...</p>
<p>- who's the kids to be replacement parent in case of accident</p>
<p>- who's what kind of inheritor</p>
<p>- adopt (you have to be checked here regardles of all those things...)</p>
<p>- share inshurance policies</p>
<p>...</p>
<p>and that most probably in a similar way like checkboxes as you find them on your privacy profile on facebook.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>and, there should be advantages for those raising kids, because of you have those dink's (dual income, no kids) who get unfair advantages over others that were intended for couples raising kids.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2992697</link><pubDate>Sun, 19 Jun 2011 12:42:35 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2992697</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2992697@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Ok, well just throw that on the list too then.  I'm sure there are other things
as well.  The point is that one's domestic partner becomes his or her primary
family counterpart. 
  
 It makes more sense to rebuild the whole thing from scratch than to try to
retrofit the existing, broken system.  There might even be some benefits,
to be enjoyed by all, to separating marriage from domestic partnership.  Even
a straight couple would have the option of being "married" in the eyes of
whatever social structure they prefer (church, bowling league, etc) without
making it official in the eyes of the government. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2992559</link><pubDate>Sat, 18 Jun 2011 23:32:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2992559</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2992559@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Well, marriage also confers visitation rights when a partner is in ill health,
and other such things.  Those would need to be preserved somehow... gay folks
are very touchy about that, because many of them have hostile families. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2992525</link><pubDate>Sat, 18 Jun 2011 17:55:19 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2992525@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Seriously ... the government has no business knowing whether you are "gay
or straight" and it has no business knowing whether you are "married or single."
 Stop trying to work your way into a screwed up system and start trying to
dismantle the system instead. 
  
 One should be allowed to declare a domestic partner for tax/insurance purposes
and nothing more. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2992437</link><pubDate>Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:50:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2992437@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Or you could go the super sneaky way:  Allow for the stupid "separate but equal" crap to destroy marriage from the inside out.  Use it to insist not only on all of the same perks of marriage, but also on some additional extras, to ensure that the protected classes receive "no less".  Just make sure there are no limitations as to who is allowed to take advantage of the "civil union" status.  Soon enough, the extra bennies inherant in the "civil union" status will have most folks going for a "civil union" from the state and a "marriage" from the church/rabbi/blue man group.  State run marriage will eventually then become either a minority event or completely irrelevant all on it's own.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2992429</link><pubDate>Sat, 18 Jun 2011 09:59:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2992429</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2992429@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 My real goal isn't really to destroy marriage, though.  Like most gay men,
I would want the protections, benefits, and liabilities of what is currently
called 'marriage' to be available to same-gender relationships.  Although
unlike most gay men, I would go farther, to allow for much more flexibility,
and leave the issue of morality to religion. 
  
 I would also want to make it harder to break that contract, though, to prevent
some of the frivolity we currently see. 
  
 But, I only see two ways to make that happen, both of which involve destroying
the government's use of the term 'marriage'. 
  
 The hard, absurd way is also most straightforward; try to enact legislation
to strike the government's recognition of marriage from the books.  It'd never
happen, of course, but it would promote a lot of discussion, which could lead
to the sort of changes we need. 
  
 The sneaky way, a way
more likely to succeed, involves denouncing the government's recognition of
marriage as a violation of the phrase "make no law respecting an establishment
of religion", which is bound in our highest laws.  It is obvious that the
government views marriage as a religious institution rather than a legal one,
since the government has no credible reason to deny any pair (or group) of
people from entering into a contract like that of marriage.  And, yeah, I
said 'group'... the fact is, in most places in the world, polygamy is permitted.
 The fact that this state does not permit it is yet another indication that
our government is swayed more by religious argument in this area than legal.

   
 If marriage were attacked in 'the sneaky way', it could really be removed,
and replaced by something more focused on being a legal contract than a religious
dogma. 
  
 Because, at the end of the day, people want those protections. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2992424</link><pubDate>Sat, 18 Jun 2011 09:33:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2992424</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2992424@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Amusingly, N*S, I am the first person here to have suggested we do away with
marriage altogether. 
  
 And as absurd an idea as it may seem, and as impossible as it might be to
do, I think it should be attempted.  What would they do, create a Defense
Of Marriage Act?  Har. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2992418</link><pubDate>Sat, 18 Jun 2011 08:26:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2992418@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Ha.  Kinda like his style.  :-)</p>
<p>I'm something of an Indie.  But it seems to me that the quote Moorfield noted from a buisnessman who said <span style="color: #222222; font-family: Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; line-height: 21px;"><em>"Great job Senator! I catered a gay wedding once. As long as your money is green I will serve you. I care about my bottom line. It's about the economy. Plus, it's the right thing to do.</em>" captures most of what the Republican party is really supposed to be about anyway: economic independance and small gov't. &lt;swivels around for Ragnar&gt;</span></p>
<p><span style="color: #222222; font-family: Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; line-height: 21px;">On another note, who is Gary Johnson and why is CNN supposedly blackballing him?</span></p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2992325</link><pubDate>Sat, 18 Jun 2011 01:41:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2992325</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2992325@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[So, what do we all think of NYS Sen. Roy McDonald, who's becoming an international
Internet icon/hero to many, for--of all things--dropping the f-bomb? 
  
 http://storeyinstitute.blogspot.com/2011/06/republican-of-different-kind.html

  
 (PS Ig--we all know your libertarian viewpoint that marriage shouldn't be
handled by the state at all, so no need to reinforce it here, thanks, 'lest
you wish to incur the wrath of the fleebzombie and me in proving the absurdity
of your idea, however much we may disagree or disagree with its principles.
:) ) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2992179</link><pubDate>Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:52:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2992179</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2992179@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 What the hell is wrong with people? 
  
 http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/124034824.html 
  
 As he's announcing his resignation, hecklers are saying some pretty rude
things to him. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2991502</link><pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 09:14:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2991502@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>like it was in germany after WW I:</p>
<p>many unemployed soldiers, who didn't learn any proffession other then fighting.</p>
<p>Some of them were employed as teachers (poor kids...) but many of them remained unemployed, sowing the seeds for WW II.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2991416</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 23:29:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2991416</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2991416@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I think their leaders have too much invested in the way things are now. 
  
 To date, from what I've read, I am given to believe most of the terrorists
who lead others find themselves unable to switch to another lifestyle very
easily once their goals are met. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2991399</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 22:03:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2991399@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >if you want to bomb mecca, bombing jerusalem would also solve a bunch  
 >of conflicts centuries old.   
  
 Babylon tried that.  It didn't work. 
  
 Anyway, it has been argued that after the destruction of the Temple, the
Jews had to ask new questions about the relevance of holy sites, and it effected
a broader transformation.  The destruction of Mecca, then, may actually be
*good* for the terrorists.  [ http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/049078.php ]

  
 I don't personally see any point in the idea of sanctifying a physical location.
 However, the fact that Israel continues to exist while surrounded by intense
haters hell-bent on its destruction, seems to lend some credence to its identity
as "God's Chosen People [tm]" 
  
 The sensible thing to do would be to set up an organized exodus program in
which the entire nation of Israel is relocated to Utah.  It would solve a
number of problems
at once. 
  
 Here's some food for thought: if Israel ceased to exist tomorrow, would the
terrorists suddenly say "oh, ok, we won, so we can be peaceful now" ?? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2991371</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:01:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2991371</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2991371@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 From being, to nothingness. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2991328</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 16:19:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2991328</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2991328@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Get 'em all. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2991327</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 16:19:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2991327</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2991327@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Let's not forget the Vatican and plenty of other "religious holy sites" as
well. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2991318</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 16:04:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2991318</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2991318@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 (bomb 'em both.) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2991317</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 16:03:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2991317</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2991317@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[+1 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2991316</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 15:59:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2991316@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>if you want to bomb mecca, bombing jerusalem would also solve a bunch of conflicts centuries old.</p>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2991260</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 13:08:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2991260</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2991260@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I said we need to bomb Dubya, not Libya. 
  
 (Actually I don't recall advocating the bombing of any targets other than
Redmond and Mecca, not necessarily in that order) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2991238</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 12:01:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2991238</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2991238@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I thought you said we needed to bomb Libya ASAP. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2991155</link><pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 08:07:28 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2991155</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2991155@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Well, if th goal is to collapse our economy and bring down America as soon
as possible ... I suppose over-extending the military is one way of doing
it.  Foreign military presence is expensive and it 
 's one of the things we should rein in. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2991061</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Jun 2011 22:59:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2991061</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2991061@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >And now we're actually in *more* wars than we were a few years ago.    
  
 Really hates America, doesn't he? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2991016</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:01:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2991016</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2991016@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[October 21, perhaps? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2990965</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:08:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2990965</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2990965@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 End of 2011 is the current plan ;) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2990964</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Jun 2011 17:06:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2990964</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2990964@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I thought we were supposed to be out of Iraq by the middle of 2009?  And now
we're actually in *more* wars than we were a few years ago.  Seriously, WTF?

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2990865</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Jun 2011 12:49:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2990865</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2990865@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 The US, with help from our military, gets a nice black eye from this. 
  
 At a time when we're not doing terribly well financially, over half of the
$12 billion from Iraq was lost because, in essence, we were in a hurry? 
  
 If I were generous, and I mean really, really generous, I could understand
perhaps %10 of the money being lost.  But over half? 
  
 I seriously wonder what the fuck is going on with our military.  Honestly.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2990839</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:47:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2990839</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2990839@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 The US will likely owe Iraq quite a lot of money: 
  
 http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-missing-billions-20110613,
0,4414060.story 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2990838</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:47:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2990838</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2990838@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Heh... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2990832</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:16:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2990832</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2990832@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Fleeb is a steer?  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2990418</link><pubDate>Sat, 11 Jun 2011 06:15:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2990418</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2990418@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 That'd be amusing, after having served 5 years in our military. 
  
 No, it turns out that they are holding onto my documents until I can provide
something more in line with what they want. 
  
 (or unless I cancel the whole thing and lose the money I put into it). 
  
 So, I'm going to obtain what I need from the State of Texas (only two things
come from Texas, and I'm one of 'em), then get a better photo for the passport
(after showing the post office that their photo wasn't good enough, so they
won't be under any more delusions that they take proper passport photos).

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2990415</link><pubDate>Sat, 11 Jun 2011 06:06:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2990415@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>...and suddenly you´re an illegal imigrant...</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2990296</link><pubDate>Fri, 10 Jun 2011 17:16:38 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2990296</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2990296@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Well, fortunately, I don't actually need the passport I thought I needed
when I applied, although I've lost a lot of fucking money in the attempt.

  
 It was denied because the documentation I provided (which is identical to
the docs I provided when I got my passport 15 years ago) is not satisfactory.
 Never mind that they didn't return it to me. 
  
 They also complained that the photo wasn't up to snuff, even though it was
taken by the post office, who supposedly always does this. 
  
 I'm mostly pissed off that they did not return my documentation to me.  That
really steams me.  It's a fucking good thing I didn't give them the *other*
document I could have used, which is the birth certificate issued when I was
born.  I gave them the certified copy instead, because it's a government agency,
and I don't trust them to do their job correctly. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2983961</link><pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 18:47:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2983961</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2983961@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>spanish rightwing election spot:</p>
<p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNoRv8Nu86I</p>
<p>you're gonna like it.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2983105</link><pubDate>Fri, 20 May 2011 22:05:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2983105</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2983105@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Sick of high gas prices?  I sure am, but I'm sure they'll call me a   
 >racist because I dare to criticize Teh Glorious Party.  If that's   
  
 Actually this just seems like a non sequitur more than anything else. Obama
is just this guy, you know? He's not the whole party. Anyway, he hasn't really
made good on his campaign promises yet, and time's running out... what's actually
happening? Something called "Operation New Dawn." They're hoping we're not
paying attention, perhaps. The attention of the media is... elsewhere. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2982294</link><pubDate>Thu, 19 May 2011 23:33:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2982294@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Saudi Arabia definitely counts, even if their government isn't openly hostile.  You are correct about Canada being the biggest supplier.  That's actually a good thing, because if we were producing more of our own oil we could eliminate quite a few of the <em>others</em>.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2980372</link><pubDate>Thu, 19 May 2011 12:10:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2980372</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2980372@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I suppose Saudi Arabia could be counted as such.. but... 
  
  
 http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_i
mports/current/import.html 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2980368</link><pubDate>Thu, 19 May 2011 12:09:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2980368</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2980368@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[IG - I'm all for drilling our own. But I'd like to point out that to the best
of my knowledge we don't purchase that much oil from terrorists overseas.
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2980359</link><pubDate>Thu, 19 May 2011 11:37:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2980359</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2980359@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[And here's one from the "ultimate hypocrisy" department -- 
  
 [ http://goo.gl/o78CC ] 
  
 A bill which would have expanded and prioritized drilling our *own* oil,
instead of buying it from terrorists overseas, has been defeated by the Marxists
(every Democrat in the Senate, and Komrade Obama opposed it too). 
  
 Sick of high gas prices?  I sure am, but I'm sure they'll call me a racist
because I dare to criticize Teh Glorious Party.  If that's racism then someone
tell me where to go pick up my hood.  Fucking douchebags. 
  
 Why is there no outrage directed at DC like there was when gas prices spiked
in 2008? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2976800</link><pubDate>Wed, 11 May 2011 19:38:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2976800</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2976800@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Hey, remember when the socialists ramrodded into law a healthcare takover
the nation didn't really want? 
  
 Clearly that'll be one of the big issues in the 2012 race.  Now I'm no big
fan of Republicans, but Romney seems to be saying all the right things in
his plan to fix the problem.  My favorites: 
  
 * Reduce fedzilla's role and make it more of a state-by-state thing 
  
 * Allow individuals to purchase coverage on their own with pre-tax dollars
(currently this is only possible when using your employer's plan -- that's
the only reason I still use mine) 
  
 * Allow the purchase of coverage across state lines 
  
 * Put a cap on malpractice awards 
  
  
 I like this.  Enough to push the lever next to the elephant?  Probably not,
but I live in a deep blue state anyway so it doesn't matter. 
  
 On the other hand, Romney is probably the only one in the arena who could
legitimately be called an anti-Microsoft candidate... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2975468</link><pubDate>Sun, 08 May 2011 13:47:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2975468</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2975468@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I suspect we'll be seeing a slight increase in immigration from south of the
49th.  
  
 CanuckBug 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2975087</link><pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2011 08:08:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2975087</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2975087@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Heh...</p>
<p>"This is what happens to you when you fuck with America.  We litigate you into oblivion."</p>
<p>Which, honestly, seems like a fate worse than death.  I don't expect Noriega is feeling the love right now.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2975059</link><pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2011 04:50:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2975059@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>i'd say a headshot is a pretty cheap exit for such a man.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2974929</link><pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 16:40:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2974929</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2974929@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I wouldn't worry about that too much; after all killing the guy sends 99%
of that message. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2974908</link><pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 15:13:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2974908@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[They should have brought the body to Times Square and run it up the flagpole,
and let people throw shoes at it like they do in the arab world.  Again, we're
talking about nothing short of the most notorious war criminal of our time.

  
 But now the other O*ama is saying that we're not even showing photos of the
body because we don't want to incite the rest of the muslims to get even more
violent when they see it.  As if staging a raid and killing their jihad leader
won't?  The culture over there respects displays of strength, and views diplomacy
as a sign of weakness.  The message we need to send is "we're America and
*this* is what happens when you fuck with us."  It's the right message to
send and it's a message that they'll actually respect MORE. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2974894</link><pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 14:34:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2974894@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >this devalues the information they found on the computers and around  
 >the house.   
  
 Good point. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2974893</link><pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 14:33:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2974893</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2974893@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >problem with that.  They'd say that bin Laden should have been taken   
 >alive and given a civil trial with the ACLU paying for his lawyer.   
  
 A lot of libertarians are saying the same thing, including one of their presidential
nomination-seekers and another whom you all know. I'm frankly disappointed.
Cue my earlier post.  
  
 It is indeed a bit annoying that the administration can't figure out how
to spin it, and their explanation that they keep getting "new information"
is somewhat lacking in credibility. Ultimately, however, the only thing I
think they did wrong is not putting the head in a box or on a pike. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2974837</link><pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 10:34:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2974837@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>hm, imho they shouldn't have published it immediately.</p>
<p>this devalues the information they found on the computers and around the house.</p>
<p>and, as they practiced whaterboarding the last years in guantanamo a lot, these persons would have been the right ones to continue with.</p>
<p>since al quaida has been a somewhat looseley coupled tree structure, its probably more like a hydra by now.</p>
<p>lets see how much of the roots of the tree they can locate &amp; destroy now.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2974831</link><pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 10:15:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2974831</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2974831@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Putting a bullet in bin Laden's head was absolutely the right thing to do.
 The problem now is that they keep changing their story about what "really"
happened, because the White House is currently occupied by folks that can't
just come out and say that they assassinated an unarmed guy in Pakistan. 
All of their usual supporters would have a problem with that.  They'd say
that bin Laden should have been taken alive and given a civil trial with the
ACLU paying for his lawyer. 
  
 The guy was the most notorious war criminal of our time.  So yeah, I'm 100%
in agreement with you, except I would replace "R. Lee Wright" with "Michael
Moore." 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2974606</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 19:42:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2974606</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2974606@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Heh...</p>
<p>I acknowlege the politically ticklish nature of what our government did there... but I'm inclined not to care about it so much.  In fact, it's almost because of its dubious nature that I respect him a little more than I did before.  A good leader does have to bend or break the rules occasionally... knowing which ones to break, and how to break them, is the hallmark of good leadership.</p>
<p>In fact, Obama did exactly what I would expect a proper leader to do, which actually surprised me, as I have always thought of him as a puppet figure, or a mouthpiece.  He kept it quiet, kept all the information as hush as possible, and surprised everyone with the results after it was done.  In a war, that is precisely how you should function... it's all about deception and surprise.  If you don't respect this action, you probably also don't respect what the Israelis did in the Six-Day War.  Now, he just has to deal with the fallout, which I think will work out okay for him in the end (just as the Six-Day War worked out okay for the Israelis).  That's exactly what should have happened, and I think it's the single best thing the man ever did with his position.</p>
<p>Which is kind of sad, really... I wish he had managed to do something more noble than an act that involved the death of another man.  Like, maybe, properly deal with the economic problems our country has instead of making them worse, etc.  You can still do some gutsy things without having to kill someone.</p>
<p>Bush and Clinton broke some rules that have had a lasting negative impact on this country.  I suspect Obama just broke some rules here that will have relatively short term negative effects with long term benefits.</p>
<p>In the end, we'll see.  Obama has done so many bad things with his presidency that I don't know if this one thing is enough to redeem him.  But I don't think he did a terrible thing here at all.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2974429</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 14:55:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2974429</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2974429@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 quick note to the lunatic fringe including R. Lee Wright, and anyone else
who thinks the events of Sunday were less than right and just: 
  
 Move to Canada, please. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2974266</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 07:48:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2974266</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2974266@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[In their culture you're really only as good as your last payoff.  There's
an awful lot of American flag burning going on in Pakistan, but their government
can't *officially* go all anti-USA as long as we keep sending them a few billion$
in aid every year, which we do, probably for exactly this reason. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2973694</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 08:18:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2973694</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2973694@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>The situation isn't quite equivalent, but it's close.</p>
<p>I don't think the Pakistani government is very stable, honestly.  They're holding on by a thread.  The people, increasingly, do not support their government, and that's a problem.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2973669</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 07:27:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2973669</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2973669@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Man, you you imagine the blowback if Mexico did that.... They should have
sent blackwater in instead., lol. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2973623</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 04:28:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2973623@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>well, as the pakistani president pointed out, they also were victum of terrors from al quaida, for example they've killed the presidential candidate a while ago.</p>
<p>I guess its a little like holding the USA liable for a drugdealer being hidden from a foreign police.</p>
<p>I'd like to see Mexican forces flying with a Helicopter to california, to shoot somebody who, coordinates drugs and crime from his big house in hollywood hills, in Mexico from there, and the Mexican President anouncing his death on tv in prime time.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2973464</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 18:21:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2973464</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2973464@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I wonder if anyone things Michael Jackson is still alive.  I know at least one person who thinks bin Laden isn't really dead.</p>
<p>I was kind of intrigued with everything that went into this.  And I have to admit, I'm kind of wondering about the level of commitment the Pakistani government has.  I suppose, after all, it's really our problem, but...</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2973009</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 03:55:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2973009</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2973009@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral,<br />begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. <br />Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. <br />Through violence you may murder the liar, <br />but you cannot murder the lie, <br />nor establish the truth. <br /><br />Through violence you may murder the hater, <br />but you do not murder hate. <br />In fact, violence merely increases hate. <br /><br />So it goes. <br />I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, <br />but I will not rejoice in the death of one, <br />not even an enemy. <br />Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, <br />adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. <br />Darkness cannot drive out darkness: <br /> only light can do that. <br />Hate cannot drive out hate: <br /> only love can do that. <br /><br />Hate multiplies hate, <br />violence multiplies violence, <br />and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction. <br /><br />The chain reaction of evil —
<p> </p>
<p>Martin Luther King, "Where Do We Go from Here: Chaos or Community?"<br /><br /></p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2972910</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 23:12:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2972910@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>So is Michael Jackson -- did you know that?  :)</p>
<p>Kudos to the CIA and the Navy SEAL team that carried out the exercise.  On the other hand I'm already retching at all of the political posturing that's going on.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2972801</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 19:07:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2972801</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2972801@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>So... Osama bin Laden is dead.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2971135</link><pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2011 07:53:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2971135</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2971135@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Those ones are great... for me to poop on. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2970879</link><pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 17:42:35 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2970879</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2970879@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Enough to vote for someone with one next to their name?  I haven't quite gotten
to that point. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2970850</link><pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 16:38:45 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2970850</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2970850@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 I like elephants. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2969896</link><pubDate>Sun, 24 Apr 2011 14:51:48 +0500</pubDate><title>WARNING: POLITICAL RANT. Stop reading NOW if you don&#39;t want that.</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2969896@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>&lt;!-- 		@page { margin: 0.79in } 		P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } 	--&gt;
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><em><strong>WARNING: POLITICAL RANT.  Stop reading NOW if you're not into this kind of thing.</strong></em></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><em>This was written in response to someone who sent me a link to an article in a trashy liberal rag which argues that people who don't embrace liberal propaganda (such as the myth that B. Hussein Obama was born in the United States, and the myth that humans are the cause of global warming) actually have some sort of physical brain damage.</em></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-style: normal;">It is ironic that a screed criticizing the human habit of selective belief would come from the propaganda machine of Mother Jones, a participant in one of the most damaging selective belief systems in the world.  It is indeed frightening to observe the incognizant conformity of so many people based on the disingenuity supplied to them by the liberal media.  What is even more frightening is the method with which the statists attempt to suppress dissent by any means possible, including and especially by the systematic destruction of the reputations of the more threatening dissenters.  When the facts are not on your side, your options are limited, but if you cannot destroy the dissent, destroy the dissenters.</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-style: normal;">As for the actual birthplace of one Barack Hussein Obama, one must call into question the eagerness with which the liberal elite attack the skeptics.  They wish to marginalize skeptics of Mr. Obama's birthplace as part of the lunatic fringe with the same ferocity they used to marginalize skeptics of anthropogenic global warming – a group whose skepticism became legitimate last year when the IPCC was found to have falsified the data used as the basis for its scaremongering.  So perhaps the important question is not where Mr. Obama was actually born, but rather, why is it unacceptable to question </span><em>anything</em><span style="font-style: normal;"> at all?  Skepticism is healthy, and it is quite legitimate to distrust those who instruct us to withhold our skepticism because it clashes with their political agenda.</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-style: normal;">If you are curious about where I personally believe Mr. Obama was born, you are asking the wrong question.  It is too late, unfortunately, for the answer to that question to make a difference.  Even if the truth came out </span><em>today</em><span style="font-style: normal;">, it would take years for the lawsuits to finish; furthermore, even if he was suspended from office </span><em>today</em><span style="font-style: normal;">, he has already done such horrific damage to our nation that even if a complete reversal is possible, it will take decades to complete.  While I could easily launch into a point-by-point analysis of the facts, which are quite decidedly </span><em>not</em><span style="font-style: normal;"> in his favor, this is a topic on which nearly everyone has already made up his or her mind.</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-style: normal;">Many are guilty of espousing selective belief systems.  Perhaps the most egregious offenders are those who continue to enable the statist agenda being unwillingly ramrodded down the throats of Americans who, by and large, simply want to be left alone to continue doing the things that made our nation great in the first place.  Big Government has different plans, though.  “We are the priests of the Temples of Syrinx, and if you don't agree with our agenda, you're a racist!” they repeat over and over again, attempting to marginalize anyone who can actually </span><em>see</em><span style="font-style: normal;"> the fnords and knows that Big Government is the friend of no one but itself.</span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-style: normal;">And now that I've mixed Rush/2112 and Illuminatus references in the same paragraph, it's probably time to wrap things up.  Thanks for your attention, and God Bless America.</span></p>
</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2965704</link><pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2011 08:39:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2965704</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2965704@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I hope everyone's following the budget snafu on Capitol Hill and trying to
draw your own conclusions instead of believing the hype? 
  
 I really don't understand how anyone can continue to support a government
that's broke, trillions of dollars in debt, headed straight for a collapse,
and still wants to pass a budget that doesn't include a *massacre* level of
spending cuts. 
  
 The tax-and-spenders are refusing to pass the House bill, which includes
the deepest level of cuts proposed so far (IMHO, not nearly enough).  They're
characterizing it, predictably, as "tax breaks for the wealthy."  wtf??  Instead
of believing them, do the math yourself: even if the top tax bracket were
to be set at 100%, we would still be trillions of dollars in debt. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2965475</link><pubDate>Thu, 07 Apr 2011 16:51:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2965475@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Oh, the doesn't actually reply as such but just posts everything to the end.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Hmmm.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2965474</link><pubDate>Thu, 07 Apr 2011 16:51:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2965474@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>A work colleague spent about 4 hrs explaining himself whilst on a business trip and was only allowed through because airport security telephoned the company he was travelling to and had a long conversation.  Something to do with having travelled to Egypt in the last few years.  Don't believe the hype.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2965470</link><pubDate>Thu, 07 Apr 2011 16:45:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2965470@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Wow!</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2964528</link><pubDate>Wed, 06 Apr 2011 02:37:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2964528</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2964528@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>How will you know they put it on? (assuming you've built up your immunity)</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2957807</link><pubDate>Mon, 04 Apr 2011 22:23:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2957807@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>One slice of Sicilian pizza, sprinkled with iocaine powder, please.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2957591</link><pubDate>Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:43:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2957591@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Apr 2 2011 12:38am from LoanShark @uncnsrd   
 >Subject: Re:  
 > >"Only a fool starts a war on two fronts, only the geir to the throne 
 
 >  
 > >of rools starts a war across the whole middle EasT"     
 >    
 > Yes, and never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.   
 >   
  
 And definitely don't get involved in a land war in Asia! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2957409</link><pubDate>Sun, 03 Apr 2011 23:35:07 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2957409@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[mmm ... sicilian 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2956932</link><pubDate>Sat, 02 Apr 2011 00:38:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2956932@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >"Only a fool starts a war on two fronts, only the geir to the throne  
 >of rools starts a war across the whole middle EasT"   
  
 Yes, and never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2956821</link><pubDate>Fri, 01 Apr 2011 16:04:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2956821</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2956821@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>It had occured to me that it might have been a practical joke, but honestly, who could be sure?</p>
<p>If so, he was very, very elaborate with the prank.  He also immitated some of the goofy DNS problems you might have prior to the event a couple of days or so ago.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2956739</link><pubDate>Fri, 01 Apr 2011 12:17:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2956739</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2956739@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[It's back door fascism, that's what it is.  This story broke a couple of months
ago.  They're basically using customs laws to do whatever they want to by
claiming "trafficking in illegal whatever" 
  
 But -- that did *not* happen to GPF.  It was an April Fools joke played by
Darlington on his readers.  :) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2956643</link><pubDate>Fri, 01 Apr 2011 07:38:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2956643</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2956643@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I'm very angry with our government right now.</p>
<p>I woke up this morning and performed my normal routine of checking up on my favorite web comics.  One of them, however, has had its domain hijacked:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.gpf-comics.com/">http://www.gpf-comics.com/</a></p>
<p>Not the sort of hijacking you'd expect... our government did this.  I can find no information on the internet as to why Mr. Darlington's site was taken.</p>
<p>But, I did find this:</p>
<p><a href="http://torrentfreak.com/us-government-responds-to-domain-seizures-ignores-the-big-question-101129/">http://torrentfreak.com/us-government-responds-to-domain-seizures-ignores-the-big-question-101129/</a></p>
<p>Of course, the idiots at the MPAA applaud this, but I wonder how quickly they'd reverse their position if someone hacked into their web site, put some child pornography on a hidden place within it, then reported them to the government so their domain became seized.</p>
<p>No due-process at all.  None.  IBM could have their public presence stripped from them if one of their employees decided to start using their web site for distributing anything illegally, to give a little perspective on this.  If the company I currently work for had its web site stripped, I would have to find employment elsewhere almost immediately, as we do not have the funds to hire lawyers to fight this kind of thing.</p>
<p>Fucking amazing.  What the hell is going on with our government?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2955732</link><pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:35:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2955732</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2955732@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Stephen Harper, minority PM of Canada, is proof that a bad haircut doesn't
necessarily hold one back from obtaining high office.  The Donald has potential,
despite his bad rug. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2955704</link><pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:59:48 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2955704</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2955704@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Ok fine, I won't pull the lever, I'll fill in the little bubble on the paper
that gets discarded by whomever is rigging the election during that particular
year. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2955603</link><pubDate>Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:20:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2955603</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2955603@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[>-------< 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2955380</link><pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:47:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2955380</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2955380@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Speaking of awesome conservatives... 
  
 http://weaselzippers.us/2011/03/28/donald-trump-has-a-birth-certificate/#more-16077

  
 Donald Trump is proudly displaying his birth certificate.  And with his kind
of access to the media it's difficult for them to dismiss him as part of the
lunatic fringe. 
  
 I've never voted Republican in my entire life but if The Donald is on the
ticket I'll proudly pull that lever.  He's just the kind of America-first,
cut-through-the-bullshit kind of leader we desperately need right now. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2955021</link><pubDate>Sun, 27 Mar 2011 18:27:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2955021</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2955021@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>whew. so after allmost 60 years of conservative leader ship it Badenwuertemberg (next to bavaria..) a guy from green Party is going to become prime minister. Times are changing.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2953379</link><pubDate>Wed, 23 Mar 2011 22:07:28 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2953379</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2953379@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[mmmmm, popcorn. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2952635</link><pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:34:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2952635@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Tue Mar 22 2011 09:12:24 AM EDT</span> <span>from   wizard of aahz @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">Bella - it's worse for the conscripts. They have no choice whatsoever.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Which is why I would feel diferently ;)</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2952519</link><pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:40:47 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2952519</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2952519@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Here is a comment on the situation that is perhaps quite relevant: 
  
 "The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally
authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping
an actual or imminent threat to the nation." 
  
    -- Senator Obama, December 20, 2007 
  
  
 Meanwhile, the vacationer-in-chief just had a little talk with some folks
in Brazil [http://tinyurl.com/4oyb4o8] and told them that we will help them
develop their offshore oil resources so that we can one day import their oil.

  
 WTF? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2952490</link><pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:12:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2952490</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2952490@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Bella - it's worse for the conscripts. They have no choice whatsoever. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2952414</link><pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 04:01:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2952414</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2952414@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Here's a thing one of my friends on face book posted:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>"<span class="messageBody">Considering  that one missile on a British plane costs 700,000 to 1 m GBP and 40  have been fired so far ! the austerity measures are needed in the UK as  we are "Skint" then i think that when the dictators are removed a bill  should be given to the interim govt first, then they can rebuild ? any  thoughts on this ? and no trendy bleeding hart stuff please"</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span class="messageBody">My reply: </span><span>Exactly what I would have been thinking had I not  been thinking, "More military men demanding compensation for injuries  received doing a job they knew carried a High risk of being shot  at/down, bombed, or hurt in a variety of unsavory ways. Yes each and  every one of our military people is doing a hard job in awful  circumstances, and they are all some mother's sons and daughters, but it  is what they signed up for. So yes, when we're billing the new govt. in  Libya, or where ever we should includ a bill for the rehab, and therpy  those guys will need too.</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span>I would feel differently if we had a conscript military, but we don't. They all volunteer.<br /></span></p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2952402</link><pubDate>Tue, 22 Mar 2011 03:39:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2952402@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Mon Mar 21 2011 12:23:22 PM EDT</span> <span>from   Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">Ralph Nader is calling for Obama's impeachment because of the attack on Libya. <br />Fun.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>"Only a fool starts a war on two fronts, only the geir to the throne of rools starts a war across the whole middle EasT"</p>
<p>- Londo Molari, Centari Ambassador (paraphrased)</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2952144</link><pubDate>Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:23:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2952144</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2952144@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Ralph Nader is calling for Obama's impeachment because of the attack on Libya.
 Fun. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2952120</link><pubDate>Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:31:48 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2952120</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2952120@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[This whole thing is just bizarre.  The guy who campaigned on "we're going
to end the wars" not only hasn't ended either existing war, but also started
a third. 
  
 The left *and* the right are outraged.   
  
 << makes some popcorn >> 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2951681</link><pubDate>Sat, 19 Mar 2011 22:46:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2951681</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2951681@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Libya.</p>
<p>Dubya.</p>
<p>Hehheh.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2951655</link><pubDate>Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:42:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2951655</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2951655@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Aaaaaaaaannnnd... now we're bombing Libya. 
  
 Shame on you, Mr. Obama.  No blood for oil! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2950363</link><pubDate>Wed, 16 Mar 2011 17:50:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2950363@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>yea, not owning a car pulls a big moneysink out of the monthly equation.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2950316</link><pubDate>Wed, 16 Mar 2011 16:15:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2950316@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Wed Mar 16 2011 04:00:58 AM EDT</span> <span>from   arabella @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Wed Mar 16 2011 12:19:59 am EDT EDT</span> <span>from   IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br /><br />Speaking of high oil prices, remember all those people who were accusing the White House of being in cahoots with Big Oil last time gas was $4 a gallon? <br />Why are they so silent now?  <br /><br /></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I wish petrol was that cheap here</p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>seconded. We're paying $7.50 at the pumps</p>
<p>sometimes I'm glad I don't have a car...</p>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2950084</link><pubDate>Wed, 16 Mar 2011 04:00:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2950084@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Wed Mar 16 2011 12:19:59 am EDT EDT</span> <span>from   IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br /><br />Speaking of high oil prices, remember all those people who were accusing the White House of being in cahoots with Big Oil last time gas was $4 a gallon? <br />Why are they so silent now?  <br /><br /></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I wish petrol was that cheap here</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2950076</link><pubDate>Wed, 16 Mar 2011 03:16:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2950076@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>currently oil prices drop, since the wallstreets guys attention is away from lybia.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2950059</link><pubDate>Wed, 16 Mar 2011 00:19:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2950059@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Thousands of people are dead, missing, or suffering from the earthquake and
tsunami, but the media is having a slobberfest over the Fukushima nuclear
plant.  You'd think that with the price of oil going through the roof they'd
realize that now is not the time to scare the public away from nuclear --
the better way! 
  
 (Sorry, couldn't resist throwing in a Jethro Tull reference) 
  
 Speaking of high oil prices, remember all those people who were accusing
the White House of being in cahoots with Big Oil last time gas was $4 a gallon?
 Why are they so silent now? 
  
 Anyway, as I mentioned earlier, any *new* nuclear plants would probably be
built using pebble bed reactors.  Pull the plug and the reaction shuts down.
 No fuss, no muss. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2949860</link><pubDate>Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:03:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2949860</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2949860@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ Re: What if Fukushima were coal or gas powered instead of nuclear? 
  
 My guess would be that the initial earthquake would've caused both types
of plants to suffer massive explosions, possibly causing more damage and injury
than what's been reported so far from the nuclear plant.  Then, when the tsunami
hit, it would most likely cause contamination of local water sources from
a coal plant.  A gas-powered plant, in this instance, would probably be helped
in that the water would quench any fires. 
  
 Note: I'm an electrical, computer, and systems engineer, not a power plant
engineer, so my guesses are based on my knowledge of first and second year
college physics.  :P 
   Disaster Binder 
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Mo Mär 14 2011 12:22:22 EDT</span> <span>von   IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">Back to energy.  <br /><br />First of all I have to take exception to the notion that Barry O "has had to limit" offshore drilling because of last year's oil spill.  We're talking about an administration that is unapologetically the sworn enemy of conventional energy.  The oil spill was a convenient gift to them.  <br /><br />We need to ramp up *all* energy production -- conventional, nuclear, and renewables.  All of them -- not one at the expense of the others, and we need to do it using the free market instead of spending taxpayer money to artificially take corn out of our children's mouths and put it into our gas tanks instead. <br /><br />Yes, I said nuclear.  Lots of it.  I want you all to read this article:  <br /><br /><a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/14/fukushiima_analysis/" target="webcit01">http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/14/fukushiima_analysis/</a> <br /><br />Once you read this article and learn all the details, you'll see why Japan's nuclear plants ha
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><span>what a bullshit. I realy think its not yet over. These cores aren't all down yet, and you realy don't know whats happening to these cores by flushing them with salt whater; they also can break because of that.If it was a that shure shot, why didn't they do it beforehand, since Fukushima I was planned to go offline this month?<br /></span></p>
<p><span>Have a look at the news about Block II. Seems as if the next problem is arizing, they simply ran out of cooling fluid for it.</span></p>
<p><span><br />The right question is, what would have happened if Fukushima was another sort of power plant, like coal turbine or gas turbine power station.</span></p>
<p><span><br />Next big thing is, that there are Nuclear power stations around, that most probably wouldn't survive the current situation without a core breach, where the core pot is welded at the lower end which right now has to catch the melting fuel rods. <br /></span></p>
<p><span><br /></span></p>
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<p>@IG</p>
<p>I completely agree. As the report you noted says, there were some extreme modern advances and several great triumphs that were associated with those nuclear power plants. I'm all for nuclear power, if it's built as well as the ones in Japan were. If you use the older beaker-like towers, then it's doing nothing more than spewing those horrible long-half-life materials, but the ones in Japan have a way of regulating what is released and when it's released, making it safer for everyone.</p>
<p>I say push for energy, not cut back.</p>
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<p>its not ok to weightn the two of them against each others.</p>
<p>to walk into houses, and do a homicide i'd at best deserve to be brought to the looneybin.</p>
<p>To settle on ground where everybody else except israel thinks its not a good thing to settle on also is something which you shouldn't do.</p>
<p>Its the same as the people in the US who got killed by indians as they took their land.</p>
<p>the christs have a saying for that: endanger yourself and you will die.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2949348</link><pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2011 12:22:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2949348</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2949348@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Back to energy. 
  
 First of all I have to take exception to the notion that Barry O "has had
to limit" offshore drilling because of last year's oil spill.  We're talking
about an administration that is unapologetically the sworn enemy of conventional
energy.  The oil spill was a convenient gift to them. 
  
 We need to ramp up *all* energy production -- conventional, nuclear, and
renewables.  All of them -- not one at the expense of the others, and we need
to do it using the free market instead of spending taxpayer money to artificially
take corn out of our children's mouths and put it into our gas tanks instead.

  
 Yes, I said nuclear.  Lots of it.  I want you all to read this article: 
  
 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/14/fukushiima_analysis/ 
  
 Once you read this article and learn all the details, you'll see why Japan's
nuclear plants have performed wonderfully even though
they sustained damage far beyond what they were rated for.  Despite the fact
that the anti-nuke crowd will be proudly trotting out photos of the steam
explosion for years to come, there have not been any nuclear-related casualties
and there probably will not be. 
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<p>Imagine if you and your neighbor had gotten into an argument over where the property line was and your neighbor had built a house where you believed was your property. Let's even say you'd gone to the courthouse and had proof it was your property. So to get revenge, you went in and killed your neighbor, his wife, and three kids, including a 4-month-old baby while they were sleeping.</p>
<p>It's ok, because they shouldn't have been there to begin with.  right?</p>
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<p>unbelievable. It's ok to kill a baby because someone once drew a green line on a map which ISRAEL respected. 19 years later, when attacked, Israel secured an additional buffer zone and decided not to give it back to the people who had attacked while swearing to annihilate them.  So... then Israel builds houses in the uninhabited space in their buffer zone that they were all but forced to take, and because a family lives there, it's ok to kill them?</p>
<p>Un-be-fuckin-leivable!</p>
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<p>calling it a terror attack gives such looneys to much credit.</p>
<p>otoh, they were settlers, right? so in first place they weren't meant to be living there.</p>
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<p>and onto propaganda.... A man comes in and murders a mother, father, and three children in their sleep. Fatah claims responsibility and celebrates in the streets, giving out candy, and CNN calls it a "terror attack" in quotes.. as if it could be considered anything else. And... the lead article is about how Israel is allowing the building of new homes as a memorial to the fallen, and the Palestinians believe it's a provocation which could lead to escalation.</p>
<p>I'm sorry. Murdering two parents and three kids isn't a provocation?  I think if anyone wants escalation, it's the people handing out candy in honor of the murder of a 4-month-old baby</p>
<p> </p>
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<p>talking about profiling.. this is a major way to save energy.</p>
<p>http://www.skysails.info/</p>
<p>its just 5 ships running with this so far in 2 years of existence of this product, and it seems as if they have a hard time to find people willing to buy it for their ships.</p>
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<p>saw in the news that in spain they found a way to farm alga in glass-tubes by feeding them with CO2, which in term produce bio-mass style oil.</p>
<p>so you just need to find out a way to get co2 and whater to arizona ;-)</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2948642</link><pubDate>Sat, 12 Mar 2011 06:46:38 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2948642</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2948642@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Yeah, you'll get mixed messages about our rising oil production, because this administration has had to limit off-shore drilling due to the huge oil spill that occured earlier.  The one that really fucked the southern shores.</p>
<p>It won't do any good, though.  Most of US oil consumption comes from our vehicles.  Ergo, we need to find something else to fuel them... something that is more sustainable, or at least that we can generate domestically without too much fuss.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2948370</link><pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2011 13:09:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2948370</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2948370@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Except that domestic oil production has risen in the last two years. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2940719</link><pubDate>Mon, 07 Mar 2011 23:20:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2940719@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Oil prices are not going up because of "peak oil" and they are not going up
because of Libya.  They are going up (at least here in the USA) because there
are powers in place that are blocking the production of our own resources,
blocking the construction of refineries, and blocking any further development
of nuclear, which is the only non-fossil-fuel energy source that has proven
to be effective and plentiful. 
  
 Solar, wind, and biomass will continue to be "boutique" energy sources for
the foreseeable future. 
  
 It is known that the anti-energy crowd wants gasoline to be priced at about
$8.00 per gallon in order to meet the requirements of their agenda.  If oil
companies were allowed to produce and refine what is available domestically,
we would probably be looking at $2.00 per gallon. 
  
 Remember, the USA has unique energy requirements because it is so *big*.
 We have many states
that are, by themselves, larger than most European countries.  Often it is
not feasible to just toss in a nice little rail system and expect everyone
to be able to use it most of the time.  The size and layout of our country
lends itself to automobiles. 
  
 You might choose to read the "sustainability" pages written by John McCarthy,
a professor emeritus at Stanford University [ http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/index.html
].  He focuses on the idea that the energy utilization that we consider "unsustainable"
makes some bad assumptions. 
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<p>one big weak point is, that capitalism works bad for saving energy; the guys that sell you the energy don't have any interest to encourage you to purchase less energy...</p>
<p>since they exactly want you to purchase as much energy as possible...</p>
<p>so what might be good for some in the short term, isn't good for all of us in the long term.</p>
<p>I think there have been similar incidents about car manufacturers buying into pulic transportation in some bigger american citiess.They simply have an interest of public transport being no alternative to the cars they sell.</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Fr Mär 04 2011 15:21:18 EST</span> <span>von   Spell Binder @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">I think bart's point, and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, bart, is that the conservation of energy has an impact on energy prices for everyone, not just the immediate consumer.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">well, the other way around. somebody wasting energy makes it more expensive for me too.<br /></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">Using more energy depletes available fuel sources, which can cause fuel prices to rise.  Building more power plants requires money, too, and that cost gets transferred onto the customers as well.  <br /></div>
</blockquote>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">once depletion (see peak oil...) reaches a certain point, prices will rise for everybody. wasting it makes that happen sooner. <br /></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">I'm certainly not advocating any kind of legislation to regulate energy consumption, or limit the purchase of non-energy efficient items, but I do think that the question of how much impact does our energy use have on others needs to at least be considered.  No actions can really be taken until the impact, if any, is understood.  <br />Energy Binder  <br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>the light bulbs discussion has some weightfull counter arguments:</p>
<p>- when profiling you go for the big bits first, light is ~5% or less</p>
<p>- neons wear off more quickly if you turn them off/on frequent, so in a staircase they might be a bad choice</p>
<p>- led lights might be available verry soon</p>
<p>- at least in .de there even was a tax on neons, while it should have been vice versa...</p>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2939749</link><pubDate>Sat, 05 Mar 2011 13:51:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2939749</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2939749@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>We might get the legislation that everyone will hate. BBC had a gloom/doom message a few hours ago. They floated the idea of $250/barrel as a worst case scenario. So the current speculation is being driven by the media's reportage of the Libyan revolution and others. I hope reality catches up with the future traders soon. Supply/demand in real numbers is desirable, not lots of 'could be true'.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2939543</link><pubDate>Fri, 04 Mar 2011 15:21:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2939543</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2939543@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ I think bart's point, and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, bart,
is that the conservation of energy has an impact on energy prices for everyone,
not just the immediate consumer.  Using more energy depletes available fuel
sources, which can cause fuel prices to rise.  Building more power plants
requires money, too, and that cost gets transferred onto the customers as
well. 
  
 I'm certainly not advocating any kind of legislation to regulate energy consumption,
or limit the purchase of non-energy efficient items, but I do think that the
question of how much impact does our energy use have on others needs to at
least be considered.  No actions can really be taken until the impact, if
any, is understood. 
   Energy Binder 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2939507</link><pubDate>Fri, 04 Mar 2011 13:35:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2939507</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2939507@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Look, I'm not trying to suggest that it's a good idea to waste energy.  We
should be doing everything we can to innovate with new ways to conserve energy.
 It's just a good idea all around. 
  
 What I have a problem with is "green initiatives" that wrap politics around
energy instead of letting science take care of the technology, and the free
market take care of the financial side of things. 
  
 Why should the government tell me what kind of light bulbs I'm allowed to
buy?  If I want to spend four times as much on electricity for the same amount
of light, that's no one's business but my own.  Maybe I live in a cold area
and I want the extra heat.  Maybe I prefer opex over capex and I'd rather
buy cheap bulbs up front. 
  
 Denmark *does* have the right idea.  Develop new and innovative sources of
energy, but don't simultaneously shut down conventional sources.  Renewables
are a great idea,
but they're not going to be online in sufficient quantity to keep us from
having to buy foreign oil.  So why shouldn't we use our own oil and gas to
close that gap? 
  
 I'm also particularly frustrated with the current administration's use of
the EPA as a way to institute cap and trade through the back door without
it having to pass through Congress. 
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<p>http://www.canvasopedia.org/home.php</p>
<p>the "weapons" of a non violent revolution</p>
<p>interesting people.</p>
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<p>I read about that... I just didn't really comment on it.</p>
<p>They did a lot of things related to energy conservation as part of their drive to become more independant.  And it seems to have paid off.</p>
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<p>Read a little more.</p>
<p>http://www.copenhagenize.com/</p>
<p>http://www.copenhagencyclechic.com/</p>
<p>almost 30% modal split for bikes in the means of transportation in the bigger cities.</p>
<p>so, next to increasing the amount of available energy, they decreased the actual use of it for transportation.</p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Mi Mär 02 2011 08:27:50 EST</span> <span>von   fleeb @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>I did a little reading about Denmark.</p>
<p>They were stung very hard when oil sharply rose in the 70s, since they depended on foreign oil for 99% of their energy needs at the time.</p>
<p>The Danes decided they didn't want to experience that ever again, so they started instituting policies and technologies to rid themselves of that dependance.</p>
<p>Today, they generate more energy than they use, and export some of that to others (to include oil, which they drill).</p>
<p>Honestly, the United States should do the same.  We have more resources at our disposal than the Danes, although we also have greater energy needs than they.  And I say this not because I'm concerned deeply about the environment, or because of the whole global warming scare, but because it's sound economical thinking.  The less dependance we have on foreign countries for our energy needs (or any other need, for that matter), the more stable our economy can be.</p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
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<p>I did a little reading about Denmark.</p>
<p>They were stung very hard when oil sharply rose in the 70s, since they depended on foreign oil for 99% of their energy needs at the time.</p>
<p>The Danes decided they didn't want to experience that ever again, so they started instituting policies and technologies to rid themselves of that dependance.</p>
<p>Today, they generate more energy than they use, and export some of that to others (to include oil, which they drill).</p>
<p>Honestly, the United States should do the same.  We have more resources at our disposal than the Danes, although we also have greater energy needs than they.  And I say this not because I'm concerned deeply about the environment, or because of the whole global warming scare, but because it's sound economical thinking.  The less dependance we have on foreign countries for our energy needs (or any other need, for that matter), the more stable our economy can be.</p>
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<p>We pay $7.50 a gallon. People with 3 kids drive the Honda Civic or the Toyota Corolla, not the Accord or the Camry... There are a number of non-suv/non-minivans (Compact MPV's) sold here that accomodate 7 passengers. (see Toyota Verso, for example, which isn't sold in the US). People with fewer than 5 kids rarely drive minivans unless they have 4 and the next one is already in the plans.</p>
<p> </p>
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<p>while they're willing to pay for the fuel they waste, I, or the one carying the Goods i'd like to consume arenn't.</p>
<p>They waste a limited resource my life also depends on, which has a drastic influence on price and indirectly the price of other goods I'd like to consume. So I've got the fucking right to complain.</p>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2937660</link><pubDate>Tue, 01 Mar 2011 00:12:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2937660</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2937660@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[They don't drive large vehicles because they enjoy wasting fuel; they drive
large vehicles because they *like driving large vehicles*.  And really, what
right does some hippie greendroid have to tell them what they're allowed to
drive if they're willing to pay for the fuel? 
  
 The EPA, much like the FCC, has been given way too much unconstitutional
authority and needs to get pulled back in a big way. 
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<p>I should have added there is much emotional resistance to driving an efficient vehicle. Some folks love the gas hog and refuse to make meaningful changes like drive a hybrid, or a diesel car. Motorcycles can work better, some 500 cc and below displacements get better than 40 mpg. Why the vehicle digression? There's lots of rednecks in the US, call them Joe Sixpack if you will, who are not into efficiency as a intellectual choice. They only do it when it's a matter of money, especially when the other choice is walking. This can also apply to other people as well, soccer moms, for instance.</p>
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<p>True, the rural/mountainous regions always have more consumption for liquid auto fuels, electric supply in the US. Most folks here have 20 mpg 4x4's, REA electrification, bad roads and not much business/industrial support for state government improvements. Until the Cherokee-Qualla bunch got a casino, that area ranked among the poorest in the Southern US.</p>
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<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Do Feb 24 2011 11:40:59 EST</span> <span>von   IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Betreff: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">Simply reducing energy consumption isn't the solution.  It isn't inherently a bad thing, but it isn't the solution.  It's pretty much just the result of having expensive energy.  <br /></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I realy don't think 'cheap' energy leads to any kind of responsible usage. If its cheap in short term, it will be wasted.</p>
<p>Even if you have a way to make for example atomic power cheap and safe (which I doubt will happen)  You still end up with the problem that you're not able to transport it, and we're running out of copper which you need for the engines. For that reason I think cars are the future.</p>
<p>while the cities might offer cheap ways to switch to public transportation (with bigger engines which don't loose as much energy) ; rural regions are probably more in trouble.</p>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2935693</link><pubDate>Thu, 24 Feb 2011 11:40:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2935693@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Simply reducing energy consumption isn't the solution.  It isn't inherently
a bad thing, but it isn't the solution.  It's pretty much just the result
of having expensive energy. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2935542</link><pubDate>Thu, 24 Feb 2011 06:18:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2935542@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Reduce energy useage in first place.</p>
<p>make gas/individual traffic by car more expensive; offer bike infrastructure.</p>
<p>And, over here in germany... we've got the "pendlerpauschale' which is a subvention for people living far away from their jobs to compensate commute. thats gotta go away or decrease by distance</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2935468</link><pubDate>Wed, 23 Feb 2011 23:21:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2935468</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2935468@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Lots of scary stuff going down recently, it seems.  The whole middle east
is in turmoil. 
  
 On our side of the pond we've really gotta work on energy independence. 
Renewables are great and we should keep working on them, but we should also
explore and exploit our own oil and gas to the fullest extent possible, and
we should go balls-to-the-wall on building out new nuclear energy.  Skyrocketing
energy costs will hurt the economy really badly. 
  
 In short ... do everything! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2935365</link><pubDate>Wed, 23 Feb 2011 17:22:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2935365</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2935365@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>so... it seems as if wikileaks is at least serving as hub for information about the ghadafies and how they waste their peoples money. Now the people of lybia know, and for the outcome you just need to watch the news.</p>
<p>Oil prices are rising in germany, since while worldwide lybia serves a total of 2% oil, its a lot more in germany.</p>
<p>I'll notice when the bakery prices go up (like I noticed the fires in russia by increases of 10% recently...) we'll see.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2930430</link><pubDate>Sun, 13 Feb 2011 22:35:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2930430@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>You're fired</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2930429</link><pubDate>Sun, 13 Feb 2011 22:30:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2930429@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Seriously ... if that's "bankrupt" then sign me up. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2930063</link><pubDate>Sat, 12 Feb 2011 20:40:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2930063@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sat Feb 12 2011 09:17:05 AM EST</span> <span>from   LoanShark @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />"Now, this guy who might be running for president is essentially a failed businessman who's spent more than his share of time in bankruptcy, and basically continues to work at the pleasure of his lenders' forgiveness, if I'm not mistaken"</div>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br /></div>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br /></div>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">I'll be happy to be his kind of failure......He came out of bankruptcy awhile ago.  Though I wouldn't really say he filed bankruptcy.  A couple of his companies did and rebounded.  People are still more than willing to loan him money.</div>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br /></div>
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br /></div>
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2929912</link><pubDate>Sat, 12 Feb 2011 11:15:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2929912</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2929912@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>http://pics.nase-bohren.de/president-timeline.jpg</p>
<p>*giggles*</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2929850</link><pubDate>Sat, 12 Feb 2011 09:17:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2929850</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2929850@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 When you actually talk to somebody from outside the US, what they say is,
"George W Bush has made your country the most hated country on earth" and
so on. So basically, they're still stuck in a time warp and/or we haven't
lived that one down yet. 
  
 Now, this guy who might be running for president is essentially a failed
businessman who's spent more than his share of time in bankruptcy, and basically
continues to work at the pleasure of his lenders' forgiveness, if I'm not
mistaken 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2929628</link><pubDate>Fri, 11 Feb 2011 14:48:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2929628</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2929628@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[if he runs, i think he's got my vote.  we need someone who says "screw the
rest of the world.  america comes first." 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2929249</link><pubDate>Fri, 11 Feb 2011 01:21:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2929249</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2929249@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>no, won't be voting for Mr. X  based on that sound bite. I want someone saying that they want to restore honor to the US and make the rest of the world take America seriously. I don't want a presidential candidate denigrating the US as it is now. I want them saying what they're going to do to make it better.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2929247</link><pubDate>Fri, 11 Feb 2011 01:00:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2929247</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2929247@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Depends on when they said it.....sounds like BHO criticzing GWB.  Not that I would vote for anyone on the basis of one sound bite.  It does ring true.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>To be perfectly honest.....I do not give a rat's behind what the rest of the world thinks of us.  We Americans have a flaw.  We want everyone to like us.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Now that I've looked up who said that......ummm.  I'll wait until other people chime in.  I do have some strong opinions about that particular person.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2929110</link><pubDate>Thu, 10 Feb 2011 17:24:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2929110</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2929110@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Name that quote: 
  
 "The United States has become whipping post for the rest of the world --
the world is treating us without respect.  The United States is becoming the
laughing stock of the world. Whether we like it or don't like it, that's what's
happening. I deal with people from China, I deal with people from Mexico.
They cannot believe what they're getting away with." 
  
 Now, without Googling to find out who said that, tell me whether you would
vote for this person in the 2012 presidential election. 
  
 I'm pretty sure that I would, even though this person would probably run
on the ticket for a party I've never voted for before. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2927294</link><pubDate>Mon, 07 Feb 2011 05:24:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2927294</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2927294@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I say if they want to dissolve the peace accord, let's do it. We'll take back the Sinai Peninsula now, please.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2927175</link><pubDate>Sun, 06 Feb 2011 20:41:45 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2927175</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2927175@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Well, yes, because you know us Joozes already control the rest of the world and all its propertyz</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2927018</link><pubDate>Sun, 06 Feb 2011 14:31:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2927018</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2927018@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[...and that's why the terrorists who are trying to come into power are demanding
the dissolution of the peace accord with Israel? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2926899</link><pubDate>Sun, 06 Feb 2011 07:36:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2926899</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2926899@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I'm thinking that the knowledge that America isn't going to be there might convince Egypt to keep quiet... I'm hoping, at least.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2926821</link><pubDate>Sat, 05 Feb 2011 23:16:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2926821@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I for one would *love* to see the US get out of Israel's business and let
Israel defend itself.  The other guys have the whole Arabian penninsula. 
Why not leave poor little Israel alone?  (Yeah, I know ... TEH J00000000ZZ!~!!!!!!!!!)

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2926793</link><pubDate>Sat, 05 Feb 2011 21:00:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2926793@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>ps: however, our 7 cows will eat your 7.</p>
<p>TriL, you're probably right about that.  Unfortunately, however, as about time as it is for that to happen - I expect there'd be a pretty significant backlash against the terrorist racists of israel once it did....</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2926622</link><pubDate>Sat, 05 Feb 2011 12:02:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2926622@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Thu Feb 03 2011 02:20:54 PM EST</span> <span>from   IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote>There's a lot of speculation regarding the movement of troops into   <br />the Sinai Peninsula. It violates the Camp David accords. The United   <br /></blockquote>
<br />Of course.  <br /><br />It seems rather obvious that Baraq Osama is delivering on his promise to destroy Israel, simply by passively allowing her neighbors to be taken over by terrorist regimes.  <br /></div>
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p><br />If Israel were to be abandoned by the US, which is seeming to be the direction we're headed in, it might have the opposite effect... If Egypt were to fear that nothing is restraining Israel, they might get scared enough to keep quiet. Up until now, every war has been Israel in trouble, Israel retaliates, the US/UN steps in and prevents Israel from actual victory.</p>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2925706</link><pubDate>Thu, 03 Feb 2011 14:20:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2925706</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2925706@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >There's a lot of speculation regarding the movement of troops into  
 >the Sinai Peninsula. It violates the Camp David accords. The United  
  
 Of course. 
  
 It seems rather obvious that Baraq Osama is delivering on his promise to
destroy Israel, simply by passively allowing her neighbors to be taken over
by terrorist regimes. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2925705</link><pubDate>Thu, 03 Feb 2011 14:19:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2925705</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2925705@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 "Dear Egypt: 
  
  Please do not destroy the pyramids.  We will not build them a second time.

  
  Sincerely, 
  The Jews" 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2925608</link><pubDate>Thu, 03 Feb 2011 11:10:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2925608</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2925608@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>check out <a href="http://muqata.blogspot.com/">http://muqata.blogspot.com/</a> for what my camp is saying. ("Jameel" is actually a well-informed Israeli guy.)</p>
<p>There's a lot of speculation regarding the movement of troops into the Sinai Peninsula. It violates the Camp David accords. The United States agreed to intervene in case of such a movement of troops (in the Camp David accords). No such intervention seems to be on anyone's plans...</p>
<p>there will be a war soon.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2925326</link><pubDate>Wed, 02 Feb 2011 19:46:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2925326</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2925326@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Egypt seems to be imploding tonight.</p>
<p>TriL, I'm curious what the Israeli's think of what's going on....</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2925183</link><pubDate>Wed, 02 Feb 2011 14:24:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2925183@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>old video...but very good.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2924935</link><pubDate>Wed, 02 Feb 2011 05:57:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2924935</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2924935@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Obama's budget cuts made easier to understand.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk_jToBbpWU&amp;feature=player_embedded">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk_jToBbpWU&amp;feature=player_embedded</a></p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2923699</link><pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 20:42:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2923699</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2923699@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>His Quale-esque moment trying to explain his position on illegal immigration was even more amusing.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2921650</link><pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:10:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2921650</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2921650@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[It's unlikely that anyone will attempt to fix the deficit until the economy
completely collapses. 
  
 As long as they can continue to spend without accountability, they will.
 Only when they're forced to make ends meet like the rest of us will there
be any modicum of spending control. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2921606</link><pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:38:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2921606</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2921606@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Heh... it's unlikely anyone will attempt to fix the deficit while the economy is in the tank.</p>
<p>But then, it's unlikely anyone will attempt to fix the deficit while the economy is a roaring success, either.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2921575</link><pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:27:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2921575</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2921575@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[So ... any comments on Mr. O's proposal that we commit to running a 1.3 trillion
dollar deficit for the next five years? 
  
 (Of course, that's not how he put it ... he used the words "freeze spending
at 2010 levels" but why would we commit to continuing a deficit instead of
fixing it?) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2918942</link><pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 22:22:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2918942</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2918942@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[That would still be the way to do it, I guess ... just go get him and make
him disappear, and tell the world "he went into hiding" 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2918790</link><pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:38:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2918790</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2918790@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 That might have been fairly easy while he was in hiding anyway. 
  
 (Of course, they'd still have had to drive him into hiding via said trumped
up charges) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2918651</link><pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 10:55:19 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2918651</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2918651@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA["ur doing it wrong" 
  
 Although I happen to think Assange is a hero, if the government(s) wanted
to take him down they should have just made him "quietly disappear." 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2918171</link><pubDate>Wed, 19 Jan 2011 11:36:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2918171</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2918171@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[More on the trumped up Assange charges,

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2914651</link><pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 11:49:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2914651</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2914651@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>stabbing? can't think of any that particularly stick out. There were a couple of bar fight stabbings a few years back, but it was fighting over girls and such, not political by any stretch.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2914623</link><pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 11:16:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2914623</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2914623@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[That isn't stopping pretty much everyone from tying the incident into their
own agendas. 
  
 It's pretty obvious to me that the shootings are Microsoft's fault, and it
proves that Windows should be banned from all computing devices everywhere.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2914594</link><pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 10:26:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2914594</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2914594@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>anyone who's blaming it on anyone except the shooter is a wacko, imo.</p>
<p>The shooter is a certifiable loony who should have been institutionalized before he had a chance to do so much damage.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2914512</link><pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 08:32:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2914512</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2914512@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Abortion?  How does that blame game work? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2914459</link><pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 06:03:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2914459@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>ups.</p>
<p>but wasn't there some case of stabbing?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2914456</link><pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 05:56:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2914456@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>If you're talking about Yigal Amir who killed prime minister Rabin, he used a gun, and it was 15 years ago... Other than that... ;)</p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Mon Jan 10 2011 06:11:22 PM EST</span> <span>from   dothebart @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>some mad israeli showed that you're allmost as effective with a knife ten years ago, right? well, its going to be hard to hit 6, but thats just a matter of focusing on the real target...</p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2914244</link><pubDate>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:11:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2914244@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>some mad israeli showed that you're allmost as effective with a knife ten years ago, right? well, its going to be hard to hit 6, but thats just a matter of focusing on the real target...</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2914177</link><pubDate>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:10:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2914177</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2914177@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>And the right wing wackos are blaing it on Obama and abortion.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2914045</link><pubDate>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 10:34:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2914045</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2914045@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[The political backlash has already gotten to the disgusting level that would
be expected. 
  
 Predictably, all of the gun control advocates are using this incident as
an opportunity to further their agenda of repealing the second amendment.

  
 And the left wing loonies are blaming it all on Sarah Palin. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2913792</link><pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 17:59:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2913792@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>well, I guess they were more into stuff like poisons and such.</p>
<p>I guess a long-bow isn't as good to smuggle into a political arena as mr. 45 and his friends.</p>
<p>except for the early rome there weren't much democracies around then.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2913757</link><pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 15:16:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2913757@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Welcome to the decay that is modern American Politics, Bart.  Sometimes I wonder whether the ancient Greeks and Romans had a similar experience....</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2913726</link><pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 14:07:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2913726</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2913726@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>omg.</p>
<p>well, after all those highschool homicides, it was about time.</p>
<p>&lt;/badjoke&gt;</p>
<p>puzzling news.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2913667</link><pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:51:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2913667@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>heh - good question.  My ears didn't enjoy it much, either.  :-)</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2913649</link><pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:14:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2913649</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2913649@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>what hurt more? your brain or your eyes?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2913648</link><pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:10:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2913648@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Ow.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2913600</link><pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 05:38:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2913600</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2913600@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Want to watch the mind of a mentally ill person:</p>
<p>This is the shooter's "last words" if you will.</p>
<p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHoaZaLbqB4&amp;feature=player_embedded</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2913522</link><pubDate>Sat, 08 Jan 2011 23:30:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2913522</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2913522@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Remember that saying about how you can't trust politicians, but you can't just shoot them?  Well, apparently in AZ, they've decided they can.  Sadly, googling for a posting link would seem to indicate that apparently the poor woman's shooting main was really only important for it's connection to Palin.</p>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2912662</link><pubDate>Thu, 06 Jan 2011 23:06:47 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2912662</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2912662@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I guess they normally behave like zombies anyway. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2911546</link><pubDate>Tue, 04 Jan 2011 18:49:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2911546</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2911546@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Heh... watch Robert's Rules of Order go completely out the window.</p></body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2911254</link><pubDate>Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:34:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2911254@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Zombie the Kid!  Oooh, unleash <strong>that</strong> on Congress!</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2911189</link><pubDate>Tue, 04 Jan 2011 08:06:38 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2911189</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2911189@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Either that, or:</p>
<p>BRAAAIIIIIINNNNSS...</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2911026</link><pubDate>Mon, 03 Jan 2011 22:15:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2911026</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2911026@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[(Billy the Kid was unavailable for comment, but if he had been, he'd probably
have said something like "screw you, y'already done hanged me, no sense in
pardonin' me now") 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2896569</link><pubDate>Fri, 31 Dec 2010 09:44:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2896569</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2896569@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>So, no pardon for Billy the Kid:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/01/us/01billy.html">http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/01/us/01billy.html</a></p>
<p>Sometimes, I wonder if governors do things like this to drum up business for their state.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2896543</link><pubDate>Fri, 31 Dec 2010 07:51:47 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2896543</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2896543@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Heh.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2896430</link><pubDate>Fri, 31 Dec 2010 00:14:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2896430</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2896430@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Dec 29 2010 4:55pm from fleeb @uncnsrd   
 >I don't expect transparency from the military.  In fact, I expect  
 >duplicity, and outright lies.  And, honestly, for the most part, I  
 >do not have a problem with that, except where it impacts taxpayers.   
 >  
 >The military cannot possibly function well if it cannot be  
 >duplicitous.  
  
 And often not even then... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2895395</link><pubDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 00:41:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2895395@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>(ie. I totally agree with fleeb)</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2895394</link><pubDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 00:40:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2895394</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2895394@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>IG: agreed. I expect people to be honest and forthcoming, especially if they're political leaders, except in matters of security. There, they have to censor and sometimes even lie to make sure that the country stays secure.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2895276</link><pubDate>Wed, 29 Dec 2010 16:55:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2895276</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2895276@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I don't expect transparency from the military.  In fact, I expect duplicity, and outright lies.  And, honestly, for the most part, I do not have a problem with that, except where it impacts taxpayers.</p>
<p>The military cannot possibly function well if it cannot be duplicitous.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2895111</link><pubDate>Wed, 29 Dec 2010 10:14:35 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2895111</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2895111@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I expect transparency from *everyone*.   
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2894100</link><pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 00:43:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2894100</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2894100@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>We expect transparency from the POTUS. Failing to provide it is something that the other side is going to scream and yell about.</p>
<p>but the economic policies are worse than voodoo. Voodoo is somewhat random. Obama's economic policies are pretty much the opposite of what economists recommend.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2894024</link><pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 16:33:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2894024</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2894024@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Heh... two newspaper reports from about the same day on 1961 corroborating the documents that Hawaii can release to the public is somehow not quite enough.</p>
<p>So it makes more sense to violate another state's privacy laws to quell the rumors.</p>
<p>It might make more sense to attack his fiscal policies, which are worse than voodoo.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2893992</link><pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 14:34:36 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2893992</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2893992@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Sounds like an admission of guilt to me.  If you can't prove something is
true, try to silence your opponents.  Kind of like the global warming crowd.
  
    
 This is one of those cases where the skeptic position persists specifically
*because* the documentation provided so far has been somewhat lacking in obvious
authenticity.  Does it even matter at this point?  He's already halfway through
his term; any legal proceedings which begin at this point would take more
than two years anyway.   
    
 Now if you want to get into REAL conspiracy theories, we could start talking
about how the real secret is that BHO is actually the son of some other shady
figure.  There are some very entertaining ones out there.   
  
  
 We've reached the point where everyone's going to believe what they want
to, and no one is going to be convinced or swayed to switch positions this
late in the game. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2893916</link><pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 10:40:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2893916</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2893916@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Governor of Hawaii says, in essence, "Give it up already."</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/25/us/25hawaii.html?_r=1&amp;partner=rss&amp;emc=rss">http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/25/us/25hawaii.html?_r=1&amp;partner=rss&amp;emc=rss</a></p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2893691</link><pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 16:17:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2893691@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>the political thing about it is:</p>
<p>- where are you allowed to cycle (road? in .de for example you "have to" use cycle lanes if theres a sign, even if they don't suit your needs)?</p>
<p>- what about bike facilities like parking lots?</p>
<p>- way hints (you might not want to take the highway... or step hills...)?</p>
<p>- Like there are special ways for cars, should there be special ones for bikes?</p>
<p>- If bridges are build, should you be able to cycle them? (i.e. a train bridge or a highway bridge..., while stairs might be ok for pedestrians, its not as cool for cyclists)</p>
<p>- what kind of requirements are there for lightning etc.</p>
<p>- even, in some forrests its strictly regulated where you are allowed to cycle or not.</p>
<p>so you see, theres lots of politics involved in cycling.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2893149</link><pubDate>Thu, 23 Dec 2010 15:28:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2893149@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I get that, but it doesn't make sense that someone's trying to make a political
thing out of it. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2890626</link><pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2010 05:24:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2890626@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>So Dez 19 2010 19:29:20 EST</span> <span>von   IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">How does one even begin to start with the assumption that conservatives are anti-cycling?  That's about as completely lacking in a plausible starting point as that "study" they've been passing around that claims FOX News makes you stupid.  <br /></div>
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>I guess thats not "if you meet a conservative guy on a bike, what do you say"  Its rather if you meet a conservative at some tea party, and you want to start some talk about bikes, what could you say, and what shouldn't.</p>
<p>The assumption is that you're talking to a guy that didn't even sit on a bike in the last 20 years.</p>
<p>As one of the commenters mentions, these might also be the right arguments to mention when talking to a democrat.</p>
<p>In general its a list of arguments for talking to somebody who doesn't even like _you_ to bike.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2889965</link><pubDate>Sun, 19 Dec 2010 19:32:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2889965@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>whew. this one is outright awsome:</p>
<p><em>The Pentagon (what conservative doesn’t care about national defense?) has released a report that the poor fitness of our nation’s youth is negatively affecting our ability to recruit suitable candidates into the military. One solution? Make it easy for kids to ride bikes and walk to school.</em></p>
<p>well, you have to have enough people you are able to motivate to fight in the army; new york bicycle couriers might have a good health &amp; fitness, but most of them won't choose the army ;-)</p>
<p>so, make cycling a common sense, to get the less educated ones fit enough to serve your country..</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2889964</link><pubDate>Sun, 19 Dec 2010 19:29:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2889964</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2889964@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[How does one even begin to start with the assumption that conservatives are
anti-cycling?  That's about as completely lacking in a plausible starting
point as that "study" they've been passing around that claims FOX News makes
you stupid. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2889711</link><pubDate>Sun, 19 Dec 2010 05:47:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2889711</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2889711@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>http://www.commutebybike.com/2010/12/11/how-to-talk-about-cycling-to-a-conservative/</p>
<p>nice comments.</p>
<p>I realy like his fazit:</p>
<p><em>So. Bottom line (and that is what conservatives like to think they are all about): Cycling saves money, saves lives and makes us stronger as individuals and as a nation. Spending money to support cycling is like putting money in the bank–it pays big dividends at low risk. It’s as all American as Mom’s apple pie. How much more conservative can you get?</em></p>
<p>and this one comment:</p>
<p><em>Yeah, I'm too lazy to shovel out the car.</em></p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2887998</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 15:23:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2887998</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2887998@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[(Reuters News special report on the subject...  http://tinyurl.com/322jj77
   "Special Report: Is America the sick man of the globe? ... talks about
the effects of globalization and the decline of the manufacturing sector.)

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2887987</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 15:00:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2887987</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2887987@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Theoretically, if enough corrections are allowed to happen, the cost of living
will go down, so it'll all even out. 
  
 The problem is of course China and other Asian nations whose manufacturing
sectors are basically made up of slave labor.  That's hard to compete with.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2887936</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 13:14:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2887936</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2887936@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>good point. we're a place to which some jobs are offshored. College grads will work for $25K/year here.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2887926</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 13:05:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2887926</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2887926@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Unions don't work when the jobs can simply be offshored.  The inconvenient
truth is that workers in some sectors are eventually going to have to decide:
would they prefer lousy jobs, or no jobs? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2887902</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 12:00:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2887902</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2887902@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Unions have their place. Having worked in a publisher's house that was operated like a sweatshop, I think every place of business needs a union. they just shouldn't all be united with each other. A union should be able to work as a team to get raises where people are underpaid, better terms where needed, etc. If all 300 workers agreed not to work until terms were met, the place couldn't have been run like a sweatshop. As it was, everyone was uniformly paid a non-livable wage, people were yelled at publicly, etc. It was a terrible place to work, but in a bad economy, nobody will stand up for themselves alone, and a few people having the guts to get up and leave... doesn't do the trick.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2887894</link><pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 11:50:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2887894</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2887894@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[It isn't possible to influence employment through monetary policy in a *sustainable*
way.  For a number of decades now, much of the economic growth in the US has
been from the financial sector, which doesn't actually produce anything. 
We just play funny games with money. 
  
 The job market will improve when we reinvigorate the market sectors that
actually produce something.  One way to do this would be to break up all of
the unions so that the products of American labor can be competitive with
the products of non-unionized countries. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2887436</link><pubDate>Wed, 15 Dec 2010 10:31:48 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2887436</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2887436@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Typically, the two mandates of the Fed are in tension. At the moment, not
so much. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2887246</link><pubDate>Wed, 15 Dec 2010 01:32:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2887246</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2887246@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>He probably won't be able to shut it down.  But he will be able to shine a light on a few things.  The freely flowing printing presses for one.  May get rid of the Humphrey-Hawkins bill for another.  The fed has two basic charges: keep prices stable (low inflation) and promote full employment.  They are not very good at the employment part.  I don't think it's possible to influence employment through monetary policy very much.  Very easy to screw things up though.  The potential for runaway inflation is very high.  They've been printing a lot of money for a long time.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2886545</link><pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2010 14:35:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2886545</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2886545@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Appointing Mr. Paul seems like a quixotic act by a curmudgeonly,   
 >newly-elected Tea Party base. We have now entered the Twilight Zone of 
 
 >American politics.   
  
 Isn't that kind of the point?  The reason Tea Party patriotism became popular
this year is because a portion of the mainstream has finally become fed up
with politics as usual. 
  
 I doubt Ron Paul will succeed in shutting down the Fed, but a shakeup and
a reality check would be healthy. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2885380</link><pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 19:38:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2885380</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2885380@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Not sure where to put this:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>http://girlsguidetoguns.com/</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Good site.  Should push a few political buttons.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2885267</link><pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 14:19:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2885267</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2885267@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Appointing Mr. Paul seems like a quixotic act by a curmudgeonly, newly-elected
Tea Party base. We have now entered the Twilight Zone of American politics.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2885168</link><pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:52:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2885168</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2885168@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/116764.pdf</p>
<p>*roflamo*</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2885156</link><pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:28:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2885156</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2885156@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Oh, this ought to be fun. 
  
 Ron Paul has been placed in charge of the House subcommitted that oversees
the Federal Reserve. 
  
 Those of you following along at home are probably already aware that Ron
Paul would like to completely dismantle the Fed.  Let's sit back and watch
the fireworks. 
  
 Further reading:  http://goo.gl/y2yxY 
  
 Dr. Paul's arguments in this area have traditionally been quite compelling.
 The Fed plays outrageous games with money with no accountability, and essentially
feeds the irresponsible fiscal policy of the government.  Reining in this
house of cards would be a good idea. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2883969</link><pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 22:54:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2883969</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2883969@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 No, "this". 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2883960</link><pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 22:27:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2883960</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2883960@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[scramble? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2883910</link><pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 20:27:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2883910</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2883910@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Dec 5 2010 5:26am from triLcat @uncnsrd   
 >as the demopublicans scramble to keep this stuff quiet and pull  
  
 You're not allowed to use that word. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2883423</link><pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 01:17:42 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2883423</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2883423@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>send me your email address in mail and I'll send you the file</p>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2883325</link><pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 18:31:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2883325</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2883325@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>hm, seems as if i'm late to the party... all the torrents to wikileaks are dead :-(</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2883007</link><pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 02:14:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2883007</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2883007@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>there is an option to download it that way from the wikileaks site, but it didn't work when I tried it.</p>
<p>so I looked to see if someone else had gotten it... lo and behold, torrents to the rescue.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2882934</link><pubDate>Sun, 05 Dec 2010 22:22:41 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2882934</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2882934@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Heh.  I also see that because Da Man is desperately trying to censor them,
they're willing to push a full mirror over to anyone who asks. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2882758</link><pubDate>Sun, 05 Dec 2010 14:30:55 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2882758</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2882758@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>


http://www.torrentz.com/85d3c7b9eacae2c26464c77d56359b16b3d7221b
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2882688</link><pubDate>Sun, 05 Dec 2010 11:11:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2882688</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2882688@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Ooh, there are torrents of the stuff the Big Gummit Types are trying to suppress?
 Please share links. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2882567</link><pubDate>Sun, 05 Dec 2010 05:26:32 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2882567</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2882567@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>as the demopublicans scramble to keep this stuff quiet and pull wikileaks down, I have the first 220 or so downloaded. (courtesy of torrents) So far, I haven't read anything particularly revolutionary...if you want the file, be in touch,</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2882444</link><pubDate>Sat, 04 Dec 2010 17:05:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2882444</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2882444@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>A clear explanation of Keyensian economics.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Bonus points:  She's kinda hot.</p>
<p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9kfMx8Llcc</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2882377</link><pubDate>Sat, 04 Dec 2010 12:52:57 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2882377</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2882377@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[What's REALLY amazing is that the scope of opinions about this topic do not
fall cleanly down upon the one-dimensional political spectrum.  I guess it
happened too quickly for the DemoPublicans to decide who's going to back Wikileaks
and who's going to oppose it. 
  
 In the hyperpartisan world we live in right now, that almost never happens.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2882277</link><pubDate>Sat, 04 Dec 2010 07:57:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2882277</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2882277@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Yeah, it's obviously not about the rape.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2882250</link><pubDate>Sat, 04 Dec 2010 04:41:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2882250</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2882250@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>the first man ever to be chased by interpol for raping.</p>
<p>2 women on 5 occasions. wtf?</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2882051</link><pubDate>Fri, 03 Dec 2010 14:56:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2882051@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I applaud Wikileaks and laugh out loud at the leaked documents.  All of the
govern-mentals who now have their panties in a bunch are the SAME people who
have always justified every invasion of our privacy and personal liberties
they've ever dealt us by saying "If you've done nothing wrong, then you have
nothing to hide!" 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2881040</link><pubDate>Wed, 01 Dec 2010 13:48:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2881040@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>yea, thats happening if you play bad with the big boys.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2880935</link><pubDate>Wed, 01 Dec 2010 10:55:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2880935</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2880935@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>The rape thing forced him to leave Sweden, where he was successfully staying away from everyone because of their lax laws.</p>
<p>Now, nobody knows where he is.  He's gone into hiding.  Not a fun way to live.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2880839</link><pubDate>Wed, 01 Dec 2010 05:54:48 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2880839@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>yea. the good old game. wanna get rid of an unliked person without making him a martyr? send him a girl, let her start "making up her mind" when he's going, get a video of that, done.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2880782</link><pubDate>Wed, 01 Dec 2010 01:00:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2880782</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2880782@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Clinton and company are up in arms about it because of the potential embarassment of the diplomats.  The right is up in arms because it exposes our troops and the the people who helped them to possible danger.  BTW...Interpol has issued an arrest warrant on Assange for rape.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2880736</link><pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 2010 22:33:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2880736</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2880736@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I haven't figured out yet ... in the one-dimensional political world, which
of the two major special interest parties is supposed to be supporting WikiLeaks
and which is supposed to be against them? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2879789</link><pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 2010 04:59:45 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2879789</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2879789@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>so wikileaks did it again? Mrs. Merkel aka "Teflon"? *lol*</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2877220</link><pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2010 00:05:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2877220</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2877220@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[You mean the Chinese, who are being controlled by TEH JEWS!!!!1111 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2877093</link><pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2010 15:08:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2877093</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2877093@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Someone forward this to Thomas Freidman.  He thinks the Chinese are doing such a great job....</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2875591</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 11:00:35 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2875591</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2875591@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Wow. Israel's managed to do a good job of keeping this under wraps, because I know people who have super-high security clearances in various roles in the army (here in Israel), and they all think we're screwed up the rear by the Obama administration. Everyone I know is hoping that someone else has the plan to bring down the nuclear reactors in Iran...though I do suspect that there is some sort of plan in place... at least I hope there is. I'd really prefer not to die in a nuclear attack.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2875572</link><pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 10:14:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2875572</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2875572@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Ok, everyone's gonna love this one. 
  
 http://goo.gl/x7z9a 
  
 "The Plot To Destroy The United States" 
  
 It's a completely implausible, but hilariously entertaining, rant about how
Israel continues to rule the world, and now is going to sacrifice what's left
of the United States in a manufactured war with Iran in order to establish
rule through its Eastern puppets. 
  
 And of course the 2010 elections were all about establishing more Bush-era
racism in Washington so we can get going on manufacturing some more wars.

  
 Fun stuff. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2875001</link><pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 08:10:27 +0500</pubDate><title>For energy chief, race is on to find fuel alternatives</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2875001@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Energy Secretary Steven Chu s way to his job:</p>
<p>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/13/AR2010111300229.html</p>
<p> </p>
<p>another policitian of my taste.</p>
<p>a big lol on...</p>
<p>'A Secret Service agent keeps close behind, with the help of a small electric motor.'</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2869001</link><pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2010 09:24:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2869001</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2869001@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[So by now everyone's seen the video of Boehner weeping at the podium, but
let's take the camera a bit further into America and check out LTC Allen West's
victory speech.  He won an important Congressional race in Florida. 
  
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KeCuRnzxbM 
  
 Here's a guy who is truly inspirational.  For those who clung to Obama's
empty rhetoric, here we show you what the real thing looks like.  He's actually
PROUD OF AMERICA -- something you don't see a lot of in Washington DC in 2010.

  
 If I lived in Florida I would have been proud to vote for him. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2868701</link><pubDate>Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:35:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2868701@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Tue Nov 02 2010 11:57:10 AM EDT</span> <span>from   triLcat @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>I wish I lived in Washington State so I could vote for this:</p>
<p><span style="font-family: Calibri,Verdana,Helvetica,Arial;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br /> </span></span><span style="font-family: Calibri,Verdana,Helvetica,Arial;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><a href="http://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/initiatives/people.aspx#1069" target="webcit01">http://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/initiatives/people.aspx#1069</a></span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Calibri,Verdana,Helvetica,Arial;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">1069, a piece of legislation that we can all get behind.<br /></span></span></p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>Alas, it did not get enough signatures to end up on the ballot.  I would have voted for that one.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2868678</link><pubDate>Tue, 02 Nov 2010 13:50:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2868678</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2868678@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><span style="background-color: transparent; font-family: Arial; color: #000000; font-size: x-small;">
<div style="text-align: center;"><br /></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: xx-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 36pt;">Season's Greetings</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 12pt;"><br /> </span></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;"><br /> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 12pt;"><br /></span></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">SEASON'S GREETINGS</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">T'was the night before elections</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">And all through the town</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">Tempers were flaring</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">Emotions all up and down</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 12pt;"><br /></span></span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">I, in my bathrobe</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">With a cat in my lap</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">Had cut off the TV</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">tired of political clap-trap</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 12pt;"><br /></span></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">When all of a sudden</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">There arose such a noise</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">I peered out my window</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">Saw Obama and his boys</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 12pt;"><br /></span></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">They had come for my wallet</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">They wanted my pay</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">To give to the others </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">Who had not worked a day!</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 12pt;"><br /></span></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">He snatched up my money</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">And quick as a wink</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">Jumped back on his bandwagon</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">As I gagged from the stink</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 12pt;"><br /></span></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">He then rallied his henchmen</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">Who were pulling his cart</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">I could tell they were out</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">To tear my country apart!</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: small;"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 12pt;"><br /></span></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">'On Fannie, on Freddie,</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">On Biden and Ayers!</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">On Acorn, On Pelosi'</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">He screamed at the pairs!</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black; font-size: 12pt;"><br /></span></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">They took off for his cause</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">And as they flew out of sight</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">I heard him laugh at the nation</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">Who wouldn't stand up and fight!</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">So I leave you to think</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 27pt;">On this one final note—</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: xx-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 36pt;">IF YOU DON'T WANT SOCIALISM</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: xx-large;"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: #ff8118; font-size: 36pt;">GET OUT AND VOTE !!!!</span></span></div>
</div>
</span></p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2868614</link><pubDate>Tue, 02 Nov 2010 11:57:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2868614</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2868614@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I wish I lived in Washington State so I could vote for this:</p>
<p><span style="font-family: Calibri,Verdana,Helvetica,Arial;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br /> </span></span><span style="font-family: Calibri,Verdana,Helvetica,Arial;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><a href="http://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/initiatives/people.aspx#1069" target="_blank">http://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/initiatives/people.aspx#1069</a></span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: Calibri,Verdana,Helvetica,Arial;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">1069, a piece of legislation that we can all get behind.<br /></span></span></p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2868495</link><pubDate>Tue, 02 Nov 2010 08:08:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2868495</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2868495@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>yipes!</p>
<p>There's some scariness.</p>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2868021</link><pubDate>Mon, 01 Nov 2010 09:36:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2868021</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2868021@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Here's something interesting that was pointed out by John Boehner (R-OH) regarding
the current occupier of the White House.  During a recent radio interview,
Mr. Obama said: 
  
 "We're gonna punish our enemies, and we're gonna reward our friends who stand
with us on issues that are important to us." 
  
 Boehner pointed out that for the first time ever, "we have a president in
the White House who referred to Americans who disagree with him as 'our enemies'.
 Think about that.  He actually used that word." 
  
 He went on to point out that Reagan, Clinton, and both Bushes reserved that
word to refer to global terrorists and foreign dictators -- "enemies of the
United States.  Enemies of freedom.  Enemies of our country.  Today, sadly,
we have a president who uses the word 'enemy' for fellow Americans - fellow
citizens.  He uses it for people who disagree with his agenda" 
  
 Things that make you go vote. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2867707</link><pubDate>Sun, 31 Oct 2010 11:19:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2867707</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2867707@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[There you go.  It disproves the myth that Tea Party candidates are merely
Bush-era oil company Republicans masquerading as patriots. 
  
 Pennsylvania is a nice place.  If I lived in that kind of community I'd love
to bike around everywhere.  Keep in mind, though, that the geography of Pennsylvania
is such that there are a LOT of people who have long-ish car commutes because
you can get super-cheap houses and land by driving half an hour (or less)
away from the state's big business centers. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2866968</link><pubDate>Thu, 28 Oct 2010 18:21:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2866968</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2866968@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><img src="http://view1.picapp.com/pictures.photo/image/10070712/match-special-report-usa/match-special-report-usa.jpg?size=500&amp;height=344" alt="" /></p>
<p>now thats a tea party candidate of my taste:</p>
<p>http://www.cyclelicio.us/2010/tea-party-bicycle-rider/</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2865445</link><pubDate>Mon, 25 Oct 2010 17:27:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2865445@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Wed Oct 20 2010 11:15:39 AM EDT</span> <span>from   IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">You might want to look up the definition of "satire"  <br /></div>
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah. I absolutely love that site. It really points out the hypocracy... Of course, if you're Jewish, then you've got some other issues, *but* the bottom line is that Jewish leadership is just as guilty of attacking homosexuality in a way that they'd never attack shrimp-eating.</p>
<p>Of course, in Israel, you get people out in the streets protesting pretty much anything if the right rabbi says the word...</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2865258</link><pubDate>Mon, 25 Oct 2010 09:25:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2865258</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2865258@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[We all know the appropriate response to gun-grabbism.  :) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2863747</link><pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2010 17:16:50 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2863747</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2863747@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I am a bit peeved.  My favorite used book store..ok the only decent used book bookstore in the area has just started banning guns in the store.  I hope they feel so much safer without me spending my hard earned (mostly) money there.  Cripes.  It's not like they've had gunfights over the last copy of Stephen King's "Thinner" or anything.</p></body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2863207</link><pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:15:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2863207@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[You might want to look up the definition of "satire" 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2863193</link><pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 10:15:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2863193@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>fundamentalist christs are at least as st00pit as fundamentalist muslims.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2862721</link><pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2010 09:00:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2862721</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2862721@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>www.godhatesshrimp.com</p>
<p> </p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2862132</link><pubDate>Sun, 17 Oct 2010 14:03:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2862132</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2862132@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[PermaBear?  Ok, that's a fun little sobriquet...  :) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2861679</link><pubDate>Fri, 15 Oct 2010 15:03:28 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2861679</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2861679@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 *snicker* 
  
 European Union (EU): A soon to be dissolved association of Socialist states,
whose sole purpose is to mislead investors into believing the United States
is (comparatively) fiscally responsible. See also EuroFASB: A criminal legal
enterprise of accountants whose members help banks hide massive losses; 
  
 -- The PermaBear-to-English Translation Guide, http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/10/the-permabear-to-english-translation-guide/

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2861372</link><pubDate>Thu, 14 Oct 2010 18:04:18 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2861372</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2861372@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Well, we did have WWII, and the one that made out the best was the one that
didn't have to rebuild from the ground up! 
  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2861357</link><pubDate>Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:47:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2861357</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2861357@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > We saw during the 1930's that government actually wound up prolonging 
 
 >the depression.     
  
 There's two camps of historians on that one, then, perhaps; the other side
holds that, if you look at most countries as they came out of the depression,
the ones that came out the quickest were the ones that, shall we say, played
funny money games... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2861354</link><pubDate>Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:40:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2861354</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2861354@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I'm saying that tax revenues are unpredictable, and a certain amount of deficit
spending is s necessity.  Especially for essential services, like the military,
etc. 
  
 And yes, Keynes thought that government should "stimulate" the economy, but
it generally doesn't work well.....   
  
 The command economy is counter the capitalist system.   
  
 We saw during the 1930's that government actually wound up prolonging the
depression.   
  
 It would be wise for us to learn those lessons again. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2861353</link><pubDate>Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:30:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2861353</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2861353@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > But, I don't think that perpetual deficits are a good thing by any    

 >stretch, and I don't think that Keynesian economics really works when  
  
 >going into debt.     
    
 I don't entirely get what you're saying here, unless you insert "beyond a
certain level" after "going into debt." Keynesian economics, to my understanding,
has a lot to do with deficit-spending your way out of recession.   
  
  
 Certainly, that's the idea that was pushed on me throughout my school years:
that it's legitimate and correct for government to borrow/stimulate during
a recession. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2861347</link><pubDate>Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:16:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2861347</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2861347@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >    
 > Apparently these guys are all upset about deficit spending. Who knew? 
 
 >I wonder how Ragnar D feels, since he's been a somewhat consistent   
 >proponent of deficits in the past.   
 >   
  
 I'm in agreement that deficits and debt are, ultimately, a bad thing.  
  
 Smaller, more efficient government should always be the goal. 
  
 Reagan was right seeking a Balanced Budget Amendment. 
  
 That being said, I do understand the need for the flexibility of deficit
spending on occassion.  Wars, and possibly recession, etc. may make it a necessity.
 But, I don't think that perpetual deficits are a good thing by any stretch,
and I don't think that Keynesian economics really works when going into debt.

  
 Now, do I think things are as bad as they're being made out to be?  Hell
no.  But recessions are created to drive wealth into fewer hands....  And
sometimes they're created to foster
a regime change.  Don't think for a second the media has a huge hand in the
recession.  They do. 
  
 America is approximately $12.5 trillion in debt - not yet even 100% GDP.
 We see many foreign nations with much higher debt loads.  Also, we seem to
forget that over half of the debt we have is Americans investing in America.
 Treasuries, bonds, etc. are all "debt".   
  
 China doesn't "own" America.  China isn't even Americas biggest foreign debt
holder, Japan is. 
  
 The average American is in far worse shape than the country when it comes
to debt.  How much do people owe on their houses and credit cards compared
to thier incomes?   
  
 So, I'm not as grim as others about Americas prospects for the future. 
  
 I think that government needs to be significantly smaller, and eliminating
our yearly deficits would be a great place to start. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2860377</link><pubDate>Tue, 12 Oct 2010 11:48:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2860377</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2860377@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Just the other day, I heard about some new movement or something: 
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement 
  
 Apparently these guys are all upset about deficit spending. Who knew? I wonder
how Ragnar D feels, since he's been a somewhat consistent proponent of deficits
in the past. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2859891</link><pubDate>Sun, 10 Oct 2010 01:15:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2859891</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2859891@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I knew about Pat Sajak....listen to the podcast it's pretty good.   You can listen to the surprising and soothing barotone of James Lileks.  He's a Minnesota boy.  I say surprising because he is like 5 feet tall and should have a high pitched squeaky voice like Barney Fife.  He's also a pretty good writer.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2859462</link><pubDate>Fri, 08 Oct 2010 02:15:31 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2859462</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2859462@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Colbert is more of a deliberate caricature of all the excesses of right-wing
punditry, like Rush in his heavily fortified bunker. 
  
 Incidentally, Christine O'Donnell is a witch. She said so herself, on Politically
Incorrect in 1999 ;) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2858523</link><pubDate>Mon, 04 Oct 2010 18:00:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2858523</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2858523@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Here's something I didn't know. 
  
 Pat Sajak (yeah, the Wheel of Fortune host) is a political pundit. 
  
 http://ricochet.com/Profile/Pat-Sajak 
  
 Who knew? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2857817</link><pubDate>Fri, 01 Oct 2010 13:36:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2857817</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2857817@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Jon Stewart is not a real liberal and Stephen Colbert is not a real conservative;
they truly do "just play pundits on TV."  These guys are just here to entertain
you ... and in this case, to play off the angry hyperpartisan tone of 2010
politics to attract viewers. 
  
 No, I don't blame them.  It's what they do. 
  
 But it would be a bad idea to use their entertainment as a starting point
for actual political punditry. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2857126</link><pubDate>Wed, 29 Sep 2010 11:54:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2857126</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2857126@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>http://www.keepfearalive.com/</p>
<p>.</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2856670</link><pubDate>Tue, 28 Sep 2010 08:41:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2856670@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Oh, I don't know - I'm sure Hoping for a Change...</p>
</body></html>
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2856590</link><pubDate>Tue, 28 Sep 2010 00:08:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2856590</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2856590@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Nah, those are just the "Damned Lies" variety (things that come out of candidates'
mouths). 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2856502</link><pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2010 17:45:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2856502</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2856502@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Well now there are five, since we added "hope" and "change" in 2008.   :)

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2856317</link><pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2010 05:27:46 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2856317</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2856317@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[There are three types of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics. ~Mark Twain

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2856111</link><pubDate>Sun, 26 Sep 2010 09:54:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2856111</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2856111@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Statistics can say whatever you want them to.  In fact, 93% of the people
reading this agree. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2854954</link><pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 21:49:48 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2854954</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2854954@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>No, the Venn diagram indicated 18 million muslim<span style="text-decoration: underline;"> americans.</span>...it's just flat out wrong.  I willing to accept the figures for the rest of the world.  Although, I doubt there can be any sort of precise count.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2854892</link><pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 16:42:22 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2854892</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2854892@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Not that most Europeans think we care about the rest of the world, I think.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2853697</link><pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 14:44:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2853697@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[And there's the problem.  Americans don't care about the rest of the world
nearly as much as you think we do. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2853617</link><pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 10:33:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2853617@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Mo Sep 20 2010 02:19:17 EDT</span> <span>von   Harbard @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>18,000,000 (million??) Muslim Americans?   That's a bigger number than even CAIR will claim.  Try 1.6 million according to the US census  around 2 million according to some private polling firms.  CAIR claims about 7 million.</p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>I guess total? you know, there is more world behind the american border!</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2853577</link><pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 08:11:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2853577</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2853577@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Perhaps they got their numbers by starting with the demographics of Detroit
and then extrapolating that out to the whole country. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2853513</link><pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 02:19:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2853513</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2853513@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>18,000,000 (million??) Muslim Americans?   That's a bigger number than even CAIR will claim.  Try 1.6 million according to the US census  around 2 million according to some private polling firms.  CAIR claims about 7 million.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2852691</link><pubDate>Fri, 17 Sep 2010 08:23:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2852691</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2852691@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><img src="http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/.a/6a00d83451c45669e20133f44a8ab2970b-550wi" alt="" /></p>
<p>http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/.a/6a00d83451c45669e20133f44a8ab2970b-550wi</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2850634</link><pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 20:36:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2850634</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2850634@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA["You cows can't get on this train!  This is a people train!" 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2850597</link><pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 18:28:03 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2850597</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2850597@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 What's next? Medical experiments on cattle? Oh, wait a minute... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2850526</link><pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 14:43:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2850526</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2850526@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[La Chupacabra!  On the loose in Arizona! 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2850494</link><pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 12:41:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2850494</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2850494@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>... and so, yeah, space aliens... space aliens with... with great taste in clothing... are abducting our Mexican neighbors and beheading them in the desert.  Oh, and the drug lords.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2850444</link><pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:23:47 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2850444</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2850444@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 She's loony. Basically, she lost her train of thought for 10 seconds during
the debate... gives me the impression of somebody who's trying to keep her
lies straight. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2850433</link><pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 08:39:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2850433</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2850433@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ummm ... that's just weird. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2850253</link><pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 15:50:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2850253</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2850253@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[    
 According to the Governor of Arizona, headless bodies have been found in
the Arizona desert, either burnt or buried or just lying out there, by our
own law enforcement agencies. This was a specific statement made by the Governor
to the media on multiple occasions. As it happens, the assertion is completely
without factual basis, some would say "made up." And now she says she just
"misspoke."   
    
 Umm, she lied to the people of Arizona. This wasn't a "mistake" by somebody
who didn't have her facts straight, it was an outright fabrication!   
  
  
 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/09/04/2010-09-04_jan_brewer_gop_governor_of_arizona_and_sb1070_supporter_i_was_wrong_on_headless_.html

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2850045</link><pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:15:10 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2850045</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2850045@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Well ... I for one object to the phrase "female circumcision" because it isn't
circumcision, it's more like castration.  And a lot of people deliberately
confuse the two because they want to associate that particular atrocity with
actual circumcision as practiced in the civilized world. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2849990</link><pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 12:20:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2849990</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2849990@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>this is a pretty interesting piece of research.</p>
<p><img src="file:///C:/Users/poofy/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.png" alt="" /><img src="file:///C:/Users/poofy/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-3.png" alt="" /><a href="http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/what_kind_of_academic_signs_th.html">http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/what_kind_of_academic_signs_th.html</a></p>
<p>short version: a researcher took a petition signed by a bunch of academics condemning Israel for "Human Rights Violations" and tracked down most of those who had signed it.</p>
<p>They then sent those people a petition condemning honor killings, wife beatings, and female circumcision in the Moslem world, asking for their signatures. Almost none agreed to sign.</p>
<p>I actually found the results somewhat surprising - that they won't even pay lip service to the things they claim to value.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2849418</link><pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 11:09:19 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2849418</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2849418@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Well, here we go, folks. 
  
 http://www.atr.org/days-thebr-largest-tax-hikes-history-a5370 
  
 120 days to go until the largest tax hikes in history. 
  
 So much for Imam Obama's promise (made on 2008sep12) that "no family making
less than $250k/yr will see any form of tax increase." 
  
 Was anyone really naive enough to believe that a statist like Obama *wouldn't*
go tax-and-spend crazy? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2847262</link><pubDate>Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:28:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2847262@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>&lt;like&gt;</p>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2846979</link><pubDate>Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:47:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2846979</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2846979@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>The mainstream media now reports that it was Bush's fault.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2846355</link><pubDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2010 02:24:32 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2846355</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2846355@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>the double-standard is about 10x worse for Israel.</p>
<p>Know how often people talk about the "massacre" in Jenin where 70+ people, mostly terrorists, were killed by Israelis?</p>
<p>How often do you hear about Black September?</p>
<p>Wiki says:</p>
<h1>Arafat later claimed that the Jordanian army killed between 10,000 and  25,000 Palestinians, although more conservative estimates put the number  between 1000 and 2000.</h1>
<p>(Jordan says  3,400, which is probably a reasonable estimate)</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2846312</link><pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 19:42:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2846312</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2846312@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[The prior messages was an article by Victor Davis Hanson. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2846311</link><pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 19:42:07 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2846311</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2846311@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[While America debates whether a “bridge-building” Imam Rauf 
should erect his $100-million, 13-story outreach “Islamic 
complex” (is the name “Cordoba House” now officially to be 
dropped? And if so, could Mr. Rauf or the media explain why?) next to 
Ground Zero, Islam seems to be at war with most of the rest of the 
world, or perhaps vice versa.

Not So Nice Elsewhere

Time magazine has a rare essay on the brutal Russian response to 
Islamic-driven terror. Apparently, 3,000 “suspects” have 
disappeared since 2000. Tens of thousands of others were killed in the 
Chechnyan wars. There are only three mosques allowed in Moscow. In 
short, Putin is leading a right-wing, nationalist effort in what might 
be charitably called a genocidal war against Islam — brought on 
either by Chechnyan-inspired terrorism, Russian social injustice, or 
both, or neither. We don’t care much;
I suppose our elites would say 
they expect as much over there.

Authorities in Hamburg closed down a mosque used by the 9/11 killers; 
there was good reason to do that. But it is the sort of preemptive 
action that had the U.S. done it, we would have earned another cowboy 
America story in the perpetually resentful Der Spiegel.

In France, the burqa is now banned. Imagine doing that in the U.S. Well, 
don’t. Europeans are so liberal that they do not even need habeas 
corpus or a Bill of Rights to protect them from tea party types. Heck, 
they don’t even have tea party types.

And then we come to the Chinese, who are systematically crushing the 
Muslim Uighurs in Xinjiang province. Well, wait, we never quite come to 
the Chinese. They have so much of the world’s money, and are so 
well-known for tolerating no criticism, that our brave cadre of 
crusading journalists self-polices itself
and sort of keeps quiet (I 
don’t think New York Times columnists will be writing much about 
another green revolution or entrepreneurial zone in Tibet or Xinjiang).

So Why the Double Standard?

Readers, you all know why none of these stories make much international 
news in comparison to our ongoing psychodrama of a self-described Sufi 
healer trying to gain stature, publicity, Middle Eastern money, and 
Western guilt by building near Ground Zero. Let us review the reasons 
once more.

Self-loathing

1)	It starts at home. The so-called cultural elite — 
professors, those in the arts, the foundations, the establishment media, 
the Kerry-Edwards-Gore-Kennedy type, multimillionaire liberal politicos, 
the inherited Big Money, the doyens of the race industry — are now 
disconnected from material reality. Most have not a clue how hard it is 
to pump oil out of the ground, grow food, or
build a bridge; all such 
largess is taken as givens, and produced by a money-grubbing distant 
“they” who like this sort of icky, retrograde work. (Had a young 
Barack Obama put away the Panama hat and the federal money for a summer, 
he could have apprenticed on an oil rig or picked peaches and learned 
something.)

The result is that millions of elites have the capital, the leisure, and 
the inclination to think utopia is within their grasp; that the 
blueprint of the Upper East Side, Palo Alto, Cambridge, Malibu, or 
Carmel can be extended throughout the world — if only there were 
just enough far-sighted caring people like themselves with clean 
fingernails, an exalted sense of self, and children at Amherst or Brown.

So they hold the U.S. up to a standard that indicts us as bad since we 
cannot possibly be perfect. And like medieval churchmen who crossed 
themselves on the way
to sodomy, lucre, and graft, so too toss-off lines 
damning a Bush or Cheney or Halliburton are the new sorts of ritual 
entre necessary to join a faculty or work at a foundation or get hired 
at a newsroom.

Of course, most Americans do not follow these views as they appear in 
the New York Times, the Washington Post, the International Herald 
Tribune, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC, ABC, NPR, or PBS. But the world, I think, 
does. So it takes its harsh-view talking points about the U.S. from our 
own harshest critics. (My favorite example was Dr. Zawahiri, an 
apparently avid Noam Chomsky aficionado, who railed at the U.S. for not 
signing Kyoto and not passing campaign finance reform — all hot 
topics of concern apparently in the debating caves of Waziristan.)

Note that the elite, secretly at least, understand that no one should 
take them all that seriously. A Guantanamo was a Stalag under
Bush but 
now a mere complex dilemma, and not to be shut down under Obama (e.g., 
one of those released terrorists might show up in Brentwood).

Affirmative action means taking a law school spot from some hard-working 
white clueless guy from Idaho State or a nerdy straight-A Asian kid in 
San Mateo, not from a well-connected elite who has the contacts, family 
lineage, or money to side-step state-sanctioned discrimination. (Has 
anyone heard a wealthy liberal demand an end to legacy or other such 
special admittances based on criteria other than merit? Or for that 
matter, complain that tuition rises faster than the rate of inflation or 
that part-time lecturers are treated less well than Wal-Mart greeters?) 
Hating charter schools and teacher merit pay does not mean sending 
Johnny to the D.C. schools during a government sabbatical in the Obama 
administration.

For evidence of why we
should not take this bunch as too principled, 
wait until the Obama tax hikes hit the lower tier of the cultural elite. 
(Not all are in the Kerry class — and even Kerry, remember, felt, 
for all his tax talk, that he could not quite resist skipping out on a 
$500,000 tax bite on his yacht.)

Soon we shall read sophisticated and contorted reasoning how and why a 
Manhattan or Chevy Chase $500,000 a year income is not that much when 
one has to buy a brownstone, or send Buffy to Sidwell Friends (cf. the 
Michelle “raise the bar” trope of 2008). Remember, there will be 
no IRS law that says those who voted for Obama do not get hit with 40% 
on their upper bracket income, or can opt out on the health care 
surcharge, or can get out of California’s or New York’s 10% 
state tax (will there be an article soon suggesting those who live in 
such caring, high-tax blue states already do
enough for world justice so 
as to be exempt from the new federal tax hikes?), or can receive 
exemption from the cap on income exposed to FICA taxes being lifted 
(that will be the largest tax hike in U.S. history)? Is it really fair 
that a caring and committed progressive in high-tax San Francisco or 
Manhattan has to pay at the same federal rates as a Neanderthal 
reactionary in selfish, low-tax Boise or Carson City?

We Hate What We Want

2)	We are held to such Orwellian standards also because of a 
foreign elite that loves to be educated here. Now this is weird, so bear 
with me. I have had, here and abroad, a zillion conversations with 
America-hating elite Greeks, Mexicans, Arabs, Iranians, and Koreans. 
Without pause or worry of sounding insane they (1) tell me how bad my 
country is and (2) how they went to Stanford or Yale, and not Texas Tech 
or UC Riverside.

I have been lectured
to by European elites how horrific the U.S. is for 
(1) its global crimes and (2) making it harder than ever to enter and 
stay. I cannot count the number of Mexican nationals residing here who 
(1) praise Mexico and (2) damn the U.S. for even considering sending 
their less fortunate compadres back to a much praised Mexico.

I am always amused by the Indian, Pakistani, Arab, or South American 
journalist, who comes to the U.S. to be educated, stays, marries an 
American, begins writing in places like Time, Newsweek, the New York 
Times, or the Washington Post, starts lecturing red state/middle America 
about its blinkered prejudices, praises in the abstract his godforsaken 
and long since abandoned homeland — and since arrival has mastered 
the proper phraseology and referents to please an entrenched elite left 
who hired and alone reads him. America is always to be judged in the 
abstract,
never in the sense of “compared to what?”

Envy?

3)	Then there is the oldest and strongest of emotions, envy — 
what the Greeks (Hesiod in particular) called the instinctual, the 
really bad type, phthonos (anguish induced by the good fortune of 
others). We talk of American decline, yet our military remains more 
powerful than the next ten combined. We talk of American recession and 
an emerging China, yet 1 billion Chinese in booming times account for an 
annual gross product of under $5 trillion, while 300 million Americans 
in a deep recession created nearly $15 trillion last year. In other 
words, a third as many people produce three times as many goods and 
services. In terms of culture — sports, entertainment, the arts, the 
media, etc. — there is almost no rational explanation why five 
percent of the world’s population dominates global attention. Or as 
another Greek
intellectual once told me, “I am so sick of America 
— American money, American sports, American movies, America this, 
American that. I have America on the brain and it’s driving me 
crazy!”

We simply do not understand our gargantuan footprint, being mostly 
inward looking and not too worried whether a guy in Peru or a professor 
in Belgrade likes us or not. (Most out here in Selma would shrug and say 
something like, “OK, the guy in Peru and Belgrade hate us, so what 
the f—?”)

Unlike the professor or correspondent who makes his money by often going 
abroad and so wants to be liked by the envious (that makes cappuccino 
time far easier), the farmer, welder, and clerk don’t much care, at 
least in comparison to financing the boat, getting a rug, or ensuring 
that at least one kid somehow makes it through college. Do you wish to 
get a Frenchman, Greek, Mexican or Iranian
angry? (I know, I’ve done 
it.) Then simply in the midst of his normal dressing down of America, 
meekly reply, “Well, er, I don’t think Americans much like your 
country either.” Anguish, shock, real hurt all follow — as in 
“How could you be so cruel to say that?”

In other words, imagine a 3-bedroom, 2-bath house-type neighborhood in a 
so-so location. Suddenly this new mega-salesman moves in (1776-2010 is 
new). He tears down about four tract houses, and plops down in their 
place a faux-Florentine palazzo McMansion, as crass as it is 
comfortable. It towers over the rest and is full of glitzy appliances, 
with a five-care garage and pool, fake columns and domes — the whole 
bit. Then the proud new owner walks nightly down the neighborhood 
sidewalk with his white tennis shoes and a baseball cap, and smiling 
with his hand out-stretched, blaring out now and then to strangers
— 
in sincere and heartfelt fashion as the nice guy he is — “How 
are you fellows doing? Real nice to meet you. Call me if I can help at 
all.”

I doubt the impressed neighborhood crowd would say, “Thanks so much. 
Please show me how you made such money to buy such an impressive 
house.” More likely at night, local youths would throw trash on the 
lawn, and spray graffiti on his stone wall — while during the day 
their parents would finagle how to marry at least one of them off to the 
rich salesman’s pom-pom daughters.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2845656</link><pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2010 15:04:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2845656</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2845656@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[N*S:  They go through the motions of litigating anyway...  The whole thing
is absurd. 
  
 I can assure you, the Founding Fathers never intended for the judicial branch
to legislate in any way. 
  
 Besides, decisions get overturned by the Supreme Court too...... 
  
 Also, the people are allowed to make laws as well (see 10th Amendment), yet,
are overturned by the courts as well.... 
  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2845485</link><pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2010 03:32:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2845485</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2845485@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Aug 19 2010 1:04pm from IGnatius T Foobar @uncnsrd   
 >aka "legislating from the bench" -- something they're not supposed to  

 >do (but do anyway)   
  
 Which, of course, you wouldn't be saying if you understood that we live in
a common law society, not a civil law society. :p 
  
 But I've been through this with Ragnar before .... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2845484</link><pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2010 03:31:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2845484</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2845484@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >And there's another term that grates on my nerves... 'activist  
 >judges'.  That expression has come to mean (to me) 'any judge whose  
 >judgement I disagree with).  It's a vacuous expression anymore.  
  
 (If you watched the entire interview I posted of Ted Olson, he says the same
exact thing -- and he's a conservative.) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2845482</link><pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2010 03:29:57 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2845482</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2845482@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >It's a more subtle level of homophobia, I guess.   
  
 People have had centuries upon centuries to build their hatred and prejudices
into more streamlined, less obnoxious, less obvious mechanisms. It's kind
of like how minorities are treated at country clubs .... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2845283</link><pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 13:04:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2845283</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2845283@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[aka "legislating from the bench" -- something they're not supposed to do (but
do anyway) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2845250</link><pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 11:53:49 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2845250</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2845250@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Actually, it means any judge who overturns a longstanding legal principle
based on their own personal opinions... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2844889</link><pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 10:55:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2844889</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2844889@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Yeah, I was strictly speaking of legal marriage.</p>
<p>I don't care at all about the religious implications of marriage, one way or another.</p>
<p>And there's another term that grates on my nerves... 'activist judges'.  That expression has come to mean (to me) 'any judge whose judgement I disagree with).  It's a vacuous expression anymore.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2844762</link><pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2010 21:39:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2844762</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2844762@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Looks like activist judges at their worst: 
  
 http://writ.news.findlaw.com/colb/20100818.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+FindLawWrit+(FindLaw's+Writ+-+Legal+Commentary)

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2844556</link><pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2010 09:39:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2844556</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2844556@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >I think it's extraordinarily difficult to argue against gay marriage  
 >without eventually coming down to either a religious or prejudicial  
 >bias being exposed.  
  
 I think it's important to make a distinction between being against gay marriage
and being against the *legalization* of gay marriage. 
  
 It really should be as simple as: if you don't like the idea of gay marriage,
then perhaps you should consider marrying someone of the opposite sex. 
  
 The idea of the government getting involved and deciding who we can and cannot
marry, simply makes no sense.  If my religious or prejudicial bias dictates
that I should marry a big blue frog, what business does the government have
saying otherwise?  It comes back to the same principle of liberty that we've
come back to over and over again here: if it doesn't have any impact on the
freedom of others, the government needs to stay OUT.

  
 It's a bad idea to codify someone's moral framework into laws, irrespective
of whether you agree with them. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2844519</link><pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2010 07:23:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2844519</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2844519@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>there's another bias that exists. Some people believe that society's job is to create and protect families and to promote that above all else. They believe that anyone who doesn't create a family doesn't deserve "extras" from society.</p>
<p>However, they get into a murky place when you talk about why senior citizens who are past the ability to reproduce are allowed to marry... ;)</p>
<p>(they'll argue that a childless couple could theoretically change their minds, adopt, etc)</p>
<p>In the end, these people also generally believe that sex is immoral if "committed" outside of a marriage and if it is not between a man and woman, b/c it somehow doesn't promote society's needs. I know a number of people like this... Basically, they won't admit that they're anti-homosexuality. (they are all kind and friendly and nice to homosexuals on an individual basis and would call the police or maybe even physically intervene if a gay basher got violent, but they wouldn't want a gay guy running their son's boy scout troop.)</p>
<p>It's a more subtle level of homophobia, I guess.</p>
<p> </p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2844513</link><pubDate>Tue, 17 Aug 2010 07:14:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2844513</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2844513@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I read a transcript of that interview a little while ago.  He does a fairly decent job of explaining the situation.</p>
<p>I think it's extraordinarily difficult to argue against gay marriage without eventually coming down to either a religious or prejudicial bias being exposed.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2844186</link><pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 12:43:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2844186</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2844186@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Actually found the full interview: http://youtu.be/cPmKLl12s25c 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2844183</link><pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 12:25:53 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2844183</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2844183@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Ragnar, I guess you disagree with this: 
  
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJwSprkiInE 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2842872</link><pubDate>Fri, 13 Aug 2010 02:07:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2842872</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2842872@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Now you're just being absurd. What you're asking for is for every similar
case to be litigated, even where the fact pattern is exactly the same.   
  
 If the founding fathers didn't intend for a common law system of justice,
they would have chosen civil law or that other one and written it into the
Constitution. But they didn't. They wrote and continued with the English tradition
of judicial system, common law. And yes, the definition of common law is that
courts end up creating law. Just b/c Congress is vested with legislating doesn't
mean that law isn't created via other methods. 
  
 POTUS has the ability to create law. All THREE branches of the US Gov't are
vested with the ability to create law. Congress is the only one that legislates
it. POTUS and SCOTUS have a different way of creating law but they're still
able to create law and of equal value as that of Congress. 
  
 Checks & balances. 
  
 Who would've thunkit? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2842776</link><pubDate>Thu, 12 Aug 2010 18:45:26 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2842776</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2842776@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > The judiciary doesn't rule by dictate; however, by adopting England's   
  
 Really? 
  
 When the Supreme Court rules, it's the law of the land....  Abortion?  Roe vs. Wade.  Yet. Article One, Section One of the Constitution says that ALL legislative authority is VESTED in the Congress.   
  
 The ruling on Roe v. Wade should appy to that case an no one else!  Yet, it's considered the law of the land. 
  
 We've all been duped into thinking that precendent is law. 
  
 Sir William Blackstone, the famous English jurist and author of 
Commentaries on the Laws of England, explained that where the same 
points come again in litigation – what we might call the same fact 
pattern – it is proper and helpful for courts to look to the former 
cases and give weight to the former decisions for two reasons. Firstly, 
this helps to keep “the scale of justice even and steady” by 
promoting
stability and a reasonable expectation in the community of how 
such a fact pattern will be adjudicated. Secondly, Blackstone applauds 
the use of precedent in that it requires a judge to be mindful that he 
is to decide cases “not according to his own private judgment, but 
according to the known laws and customs of the land.” Blackstone 
says that judges are “not delegated to pronounce a new law, but to 
maintain and expound the old one.”

So far, so good. Precedent, according to Blackstone, is a good thing.

It serves some useful purposes.
 
But that's not what's happening today.
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841894</link><pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 16:49:38 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841894</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841894@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Using the judiciary to rule by dictat is NOT what our Founding Fathers
 
 >intendend.   
 >   
 >  
  
 The judiciary doesn't rule by dictate; however, by adopting England's legal
system as opposed to the civil law system (or whatever that third type of
legal system is), they certainly did intend to have things working as the
legal system now functions. 
  
 They COULD have chosen to employ a civil law system in the courts and laws,
but they did NOT. 
  
 That, to me, is much more indicative of the founding father's intent. (And
before you go rattling off that civil law systems weren't around at the time,
that's another load of organic pony manure; civil law existed back in the
time of the Roman Empire.) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841750</link><pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 09:47:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841750</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841750@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[You think the system is working as is? 
  
 You think there is anything elegant about the system right now? 
  
 Do you think you're really going to get a fair trial here? 
  
 Remember, rights are not derived from government.  The government has rights
at the consent of the governed. 
  
 I for one find that most of the judicial findings as of late are out of touch
with the American public. 
  
 We need to remove our consent from what they are trying to achieve.   
  
 Using the judiciary to rule by dictat is NOT what our Founding Fathers intendend.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841697</link><pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 06:55:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841697</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841697@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>I was assuming you were talking about the U.S. legal system.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I don't really know about how law, and lawmaking works, what I do know is that our system seems to run just fine, until you want justice, that seems to be a whole other flock of seagulls</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841642</link><pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 03:58:38 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841642</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841642@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Right, but Ragnar here is advocating we dump 1,000 years of judicial tradition
and move to a civil law legal system -- the kind they employ in the EU and
most other parts of the world. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841638</link><pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 03:51:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841638</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841638@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>$.02:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The EU sucks. I want no part of it, judicially or otherwise.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841619</link><pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 02:14:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841619</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841619@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Right, you're going to pit legal training by many, varied individuals, as
well as LEGAL EXPERIENCE (and I DO have conversations with judges and lawyers,
FTR, all the time)   
  
  against your single conversation with one person who holds a bias against
the common law system. 
  
 If you think the alternates are better, move to the EU. You'll see just how
effiient their legal system is over there. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841514</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 17:56:04 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841514</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841514@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I know what you've been taught.  And I know how the system has been perverted
by lawyers.  The system is broken.  The way to fix it is by having strict
originalists on the Supreme Court, and get rid of the notion of stare decisis.

  
 Instead of relying on a year or two of law school, you should really talk
to some practicing lawyers, or better yet, a judge or two. 
  
 I had a fascinating talk with a local judge about this exact problem....
 And believe me, I got an earful of behind the scenes knowledge. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841505</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 17:46:03 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841505</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841505@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > No, that's the modern take....  That it's a "living document".  Judges
 
 >weren't supposed to create laws.   
 >    
 > I'   
 > m a strict Originalist.     
 >    
 > OUr system is so fucked up because there are only two methods of   
 >correcting errant judges - amending the Constitution (which apparently 
 
 >doesn't work) or appointing successor judges who will rule differently.
 
 >  
 >    
 > Our Republic is being subverted by judges making laws rather than   
 >interpreting them.   
  
 You know absolutely nothing about the English legal system then, Ragnar.
And i've usually thought you to be knowledgeable and intelligent. 
  
 When you get a clue, I'll start paying to your arguments again. 
  
 This may provide you with a starting point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law

  
 You're so wrong on so many levels. The statutory law that we have in the
US started out as codification of the common law alread in existence. But
I know you can read. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841444</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:23:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841444</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841444@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[. . . the debate over the selection of judges is really keyed, I believe, to 
what role you see the judiciary playing. And it is important to understand that 
the left and the right in American politics see the judicial role very 
differently.

First, the left sees judges as the action arm, or at least an impregnable 
bastion of defense in support of progressive notions. The action arm can be seen 
in areas such as abortion, religion in the public square, criminal procedure, 
the right to bear arms, and the death penalty. The impregnable defense phase can 
be seen when the state supreme courts, as is almost routinely the case, declare 
unconstitutional any kind of tort reform passed in the states. It can be seen at 
the federal level when federal term limits are declared off limits. It can be 
seen when any type of reform to class action lawsuits is attempted.
Second, on the right you have
individuals who see judges as aloof from politics, 
who believe that a judge’s role is to determine the original understanding 
of the instrument before it, be that a contract, a statute or a constitution.
Third, it is important to understand that in the United States the legal culture 
is thoroughly and completely controlled by the left. This is true in the law 
schools. It is true in the American Bar Association. The legal culture, 
accordingly, is a culture that is hostile to the notions of judicial 
traditionalists. Thus, and this is important to understand when you’re 
thinking about judicial selection, blind draws into the country’s legal pool 
will produce by and large adherents of the left’s view of what a judge 
should be.  Fifth, this split is new between the right and the left. I believe 
that for 150 or perhaps even 160 years in this country Republicans and Democrats
had a 
similar view as to what judges did and didn’t do. But that has changed. And 
I think it is important that we understand this.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841442</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:22:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841442</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841442@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >      
 > Constitutions are supposed to be vague. It is the purpose and   
 >directive of courts of appeals to determine what the language in a   
 >constitution means, and to create (yes, create) law by issuing   
 >decisions and rulings along those lines.      
 >    
 >    
 > Seriously, everyone in this country is so f'n ignorant as to how best 
 
 >to draft legislation that it's a farce these days.   
 >   
 >  
  
 No, that's the modern take....  That it's a "living document".  Judges weren't
supposed to create laws. 
  
 I' 
 m a strict Originalist.   
  
 OUr system is so fucked up because there are only two methods of correcting
errant judges - amending the Constitution (which apparently doesn't work)
or appointing successor judges who will rule differently. 
  
 Our Republic is being subverted by judges making laws rather than interpreting
them. 
  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841405</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:15:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841405@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Huh?  Years?  "Debating tactics"?   
 >  
 >I called you out on your claim that  this was the "Obama  
 >Recession."  How do you get from there to here?   
  
 Do you really think that we aren't aware that you are the child molester
from Sacramento? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841399</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:10:03 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841399</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841399@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Marriage does change things in a relationship.  Look how many people  

 >lived together successfully for years who divorce after getting   
 >married.  Why?   
  
 because of the contractual obligations, responsibilities, and benefits that
are part of the contract of marriage. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841398</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:09:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841398</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841398@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Aug 9 2010 12:51pm from wizard of aahz @uncnsrd   
 > > I guess you don't think unmarried couples (living together),     
 > >male/female (that is, heterosexual couples) should raise children    

 > >either?     
 >    
 > I think that's probably an accurate feeling from Ragnar, but it's for 
 
 >him to say, not me.   
  
 Aw aahz baby, too scared of having folks invoke Rules #4-6? I've been not
around for a bit so maybe no one's been invoking lately ... ? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841397</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:08:00 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841397</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841397@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Aug 9 2010 12:17pm from Ragnar Danneskjold @uncnsrd     
 >fleeb:     
 >      
 > I wasn't thinking about anything specific when I was talking about the
Constitution, other than it is too vague.     
    
 Constitutions are supposed to be vague. It is the purpose and directive of
courts of appeals to determine what the language in a constitution means,
and to create (yes, create) law by issuing decisions and rulings along those
lines.    
  
  
 Seriously, everyone in this country is so f'n ignorant as to how best to
draft legislation that it's a farce these days. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841387</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 13:44:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841387</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841387@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Aug 9 2010 12:51pm from wizard of aahz @uncnsrd   
 > > I guess you don't think unmarried couples (living together),     
 > >male/female (that is, heterosexual couples) should raise children    

 > >either?     
 >    
 > I think that's probably an accurate feeling from Ragnar, but it's for 
 
 >him to say, not me.   
 >   
 >  
  
 In most cases, it's still sub-optimal.   
  
 Marriage does change things in a relationship.  Look how many people lived
together successfully for years who divorce after getting married.  Why? 
  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841368</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:51:06 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841368</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841368@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > I guess you don't think unmarried couples (living together),   
 >male/female (that is, heterosexual couples) should raise children   
 >either?   
  
 I think that's probably an accurate feeling from Ragnar, but it's for him
to say, not me. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841366</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:32:38 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841366@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Fri Aug 06 2010 09:50:27 AM EDT</span> <span>from   IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote>If the religious nutbars aren't careful, marriage could be denied to   <br />all people in this country quite easily based on their current   <br />arguments.  Because they keep talking about preserving its sanctity   <br />or some other such nonsense, which really comes down to "because our   <br />religion says it's only a man and a woman who can get married."  And   <br />if it can be proven that marriage is a religious thing, that whole   <br />separation of church and state bit will swoop in and kill it for   <br />everyone.    <br /></blockquote>
<br />And that's EXACTLY what needs to happen!  <br /><br />The government should get out of the marriage business COMPLETELY!  <br /><br />Does your religion disallow marrying a certain type of person?  Fine, don't marry that person, or find a different religion, depending on which is more important to you.  The government needs to get the hell *out* of that decision. <br /></div>
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>Strong agreement.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841363</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:22:12 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841363@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Thu Aug 05 2010 11:06:02 PM EDT</span> <span>from   fleeb @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>The gay marriage thing seems straightforward, yet it's kind of complicated.</p>
<p>So many ways this could go.</p>
<p>If the religious nutbars aren't careful, marriage could be denied to all people in this country quite easily based on their current arguments.  Because they keep talking about preserving its sanctity or some other such nonsense, which really comes down to "because our religion says it's only a man and a woman who can get married."  And if it can be proven that marriage is a religious thing, that whole separation of church and state bit will swoop in and kill it for everyone.</p>
<p>That'd be kind of interesting.  It might even be liberating for the poor guys who want out of their marriage, heh.</p>
<p>If marriage is simply a legal contract (in the eyes of the state), then there's really no reason why two (or, frankly, more) people couldn't get married, regardless of gender.  It's a fucking *legal* *contract* in the eyes of the state.  If you want to get religious about it... well, don't let people have a religious ceremony in your particular church.  But to impose your religious point of view on the rest of the citizens in this country flies in the face of the constitution, which essentially states that no particular religion will guide the state's laws.</p>
<p>This said, I'm not sure it's a good idea to allow more than about five people to enter into this kind of contract together.  Five people can help maintain a household which, I think, is one of the reasons for entering into this kind of legal contract.  Much more than that, and it becomes ridiculously confusing.  I think the state could make a case for limiting the number of people that enter into this kind of contract.  Although five seems possibly reasonable to me, the state might elect to keep it to 2... but if it did so, would it be due to keeping it simple enough for the state to manage, or due to a religious bias?</p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>Fundamentally gay marriage has always been an equal rights issue.  As you correctly point out, if the religious element go too far hetrosexual marriage could be abolished just as easily as allowing any consenting adult to marry.  Both are valid solutions to an equality.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841359</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:17:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841359@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Thu Aug 05 2010 07:08:51 PM EDT</span> <span>from   Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote>Aug 5 2010 4:34pm from fleeb @uncnsrd    <br /><br />Wonder if this helps:    <br /><br /><a href="http://www.livescience.com/history/071019-torture-history.html" target="webcit01">http://www.livescience.com/history/071019-torture-history.html</a> <br /><br /><br /></blockquote>
<br />I really don't see that as being any more scientific than this:  <br /><br /><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/20/AR200904200281" target="webcit01">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/20/AR200904200281</a> 8.html  <br /><br />or   <br /><br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/dzzvrz" target="webcit01">http://tinyurl.com/dzzvrz</a> <br /></div>
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>"<em>The writer, a visiting fellow at the Hoover Institution, served in  senior positions in the Pentagon and the White House from 2001 to 2009,  most recently as chief speechwriter for President George W. Bush."</em></p>
<p>That's your expert?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841358</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 12:17:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841358</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841358@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[fleeb: 
  
 I wasn't thinking about anything specific when I was talking about the Constitution, other than it is too vague. 
  
 Because it is, it has become virtually meaningless.  It's subject to interpretation, and those interpretations have changed over time as well.   
  
 Even things that are pretty well spelled out, like the Second Amendment, have 
vastly different intpretations.  And our judicial system allows judges to become 
petty tyrannts, who can rule against the people at their whim, with little or no 
rammification.

 
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Thu Aug 05 2010 06:05:39 PM EDT</span> <span>from   IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote>Is that your idea of critical thinking skills?  It's the second and   <br />third time you've floated straw men for me to defend.    <br /></blockquote>
<br />You're accusing me of flawed debating tactics in order to drive attention away from the fact that your own debating tactics are flawed.  You've been doing that for years.  We can see through it; it isn't going to work again. <br /></div>
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>Huh?  Years?  "Debating tactics"?</p>
<p>I called you out on your claim that  this was the "Obama Recession."  How do you get from there to here?</p>
<p>Or is this another straw man?</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Thu Aug 05 2010 04:46:37 PM EDT</span> <span>from   fleeb @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />Or maybe this:  <br /><br /><a href="http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/013585.php" target="webcit01">http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/013585.php</a> <br /></div>
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>From an expert:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>"I used to teach SEER (Survival, Escape, Evasion,  Resistance) in the US Army a long time ago and although we didn't use  anything remotely close to the kinds of things that go on today, we were  fairly harsh when it came to sleep deprivation, stress positions etc.</p>
<p>You know what I learned?</p>
<p>People will tell you anything. They will say the most outrageous and  ridiculous falsehoods, they will agree to and repeat anything you ask  them too just to get you to stop doing whatever you happen to be doing  and they know that you aren't really going to hurt them because you're  both on the same team.</p>
<p>Now you can make the argument that they could also be made to tell  you the truth, but now you have a problem, how do you know the  difference? You don't, you can't.</p>
<p>That's only one angle.</p>
<p>The other and the one that is the barometer for me is what's right  and what's wrong. I have a moral keel and for me- obviously yours is  different- but for me, torture is a stark contradiction to my value  system, like abusing my kids, cheating on my wife, stealing from my  employer, betraying my country, those sorts of things aren't something I  can rationalize. Sorry. Socio-pathology has gone from being an  affliction of disturbed individuals to being a State policy. I know what  lies down that road and although I'm fairly certain I can't stop it, I  sure as hell won't condone it, not for any reason, not ever."</p>
</blockquote>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Thu Aug 05 2010 04:34:23 PM EDT</span> <span>from   fleeb @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />Wonder if this helps:  <br /><br /><a href="http://www.livescience.com/history/071019-torture-history.html" target="webcit01">http://www.livescience.com/history/071019-torture-history.html</a> <br /></div>
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes, that pretty much sums up the majority of experts on the subject of torture.  Torture simply doesn't work well.</p>
<p>In my opinion torture is most often advocated by sadists.</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Mon Aug 09 2010 02:53:14 EDT</span> <span>from   Nite*Star @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">fleeb, did you read part 2?  <br /><br />The relationship of Niankhkhnum and Khnumhotep can therefore be shown to be of a non-sexual nature.  The tomb is richly decorated, and the two men hold high titles while showing their great affection for each other freely. <br />Furthermore, the two menbs wives and children are depicted in the tomb.[vi] <br />While it is possible the two men were in a homosexual relationship, balancing their infertile relationship with two fertile relationships, it is unlikely the two men would have been in such a favorable position with the pharaoh. <br /><br /><a href="http://mummyswrap.com/2009/05/20/the-controversy-of-niankhkhnum-and-khnumhotep" target="webcit01">http://mummyswrap.com/2009/05/20/the-controversy-of-niankhkhnum-and-khnumhotep</a> -part-2/  <br /></div>
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>Nope, I missed that.  Ah well... it was certainly notable.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841222</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 03:58:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841222</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841222@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>http://www.denverpost.com/election2010/ci_15673894</p>
<p>*roflamo*</p>
<p>stuff like that makes republicans look like a bunch of moroons around to entertain the rest of the world with their st00pid campaigns.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841202</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 02:53:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841202</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841202@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[fleeb, did you read part 2? 
  
 The relationship of Niankhkhnum and Khnumhotep can therefore be shown to
be of a non-sexual nature.  The tomb is richly decorated, and the two men
hold high titles while showing their great affection for each other freely.
 Furthermore, the two menbs wives and children are depicted in the tomb.[vi]
 While it is possible the two men were in a homosexual relationship, balancing
their infertile relationship with two fertile relationships, it is unlikely
the two men would have been in such a favorable position with the pharaoh.

  
 http://mummyswrap.com/2009/05/20/the-controversy-of-niankhkhnum-and-khnumhotep
-part-2/ 
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<p>I wonder how Ragnar would feel about my marriage?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anywho...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What the hell is wrong with you Americans?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Same gender marriage shouldn't be an issue, it should just be.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Over here, the powers that be at least tried, the civil ceremony thing is ok I guess, but it somehow seems to seperate a section of society, it should just be marriage.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>America, Land of the Free, as long as you conform?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841196</link><pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2010 02:38:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841196</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841196@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Remember, homosexuality used to be a crime.  Slavery wasn't.  Sadly,  

 >the way the Constitution is written, it's open to massive   
 >interpretation.   
  
 If you go far enough back in time, slavery was a crime, too.  
  
 And, homosexuality was NOT a crime, if you go back enough in time. 
  
 Ironic, isn't it, how slavery NOW is a crime and homosexuality is NOT? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841174</link><pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2010 23:24:47 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841174</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841174@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Here we go:</p>
<p><a href="http://mummyswrap.com/2009/05/16/the-controversy-of-niankhkhnum-and-khnumhotep-part-1/">http://mummyswrap.com/2009/05/16/the-controversy-of-niankhkhnum-and-khnumhotep-part-1/</a></p>
<p>The Tomb of the Hairdressers, or the Tomb of the Two Brothers.</p>
<p>I was wrong... they were not hairdressers, but manicurists.</p>
<p>It isn't necessarily clear they were homosexual, conjoined twins, brothers, or what.  But it sure seems like they might have been homosexual lovers.</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Aug 08 2010 17:40:05 EDT</span> <span>from   Nite*Star @ Uncensored</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">Actually the union of gay couples can be traced back to Ancient Rome, if not further.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Kinda.</p>
<p>There were two hair dressers (no joke) in Ancient Egypt who were for all intents and purposes married.  Funny, reading the documentation on that.</p>
<p>However, many homosexuals from medieval times took advantage of a kind of contract that was created to permit siblings to help maintain a household together.  Consider that a household built by a powerful family might have a patriarch who dies, leaving his legacy to his two children (who may be brothers).  The children work together to maintain the household as a consequence of this situation, so they need a contract of some kind to make maintaining this household easier (much as a married pair might).</p>
<p>That's why, at least in medieval Europe, you had same-gendered couples engaging in relationships referring to 'brotherhood' or 'sisterhood'.  Homosexual couples who were not related would take advantage of these kinds of laws to make maintaining their household easier... much as a married couple might.</p>
<p>Society has no such contract today... which makes it damned inconvenient for same-gendered couples who are not gay to maintain a household together if they have that need.</p>
<p>This society is so focused on its bigotry against homosexual couples that it fails to consider the benefits available to straight folks if the laws loosened up a bit.  And, if the economy keeps having problems, we'll need contracts like we had in medieval Europe to help maintain households amongst siblings.</p>
<p>It's funny... while the religious reich love to say that gay people can marry (just not each other), they fail to consider that they're screwing themselves by now allowing same-gendered people to enter into legal relationships like marriage.</p>
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<p>Oh, perhaps you mean sadly slavery *wasn't* a crime back in the day (even though this country had a strong every-man-created-equal sort of thing going on).</p>
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<p>Sadly?</p>
<p>Um... you'd prefer homosexuality remain a crime?  I'm not sure I get what you mean.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841141</link><pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2010 20:52:59 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841141</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841141@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Actually, I don't believe that at all. 
  
 Remember, homosexuality used to be a crime.  Slavery wasn't.  Sadly, the
way the Constitution is written, it's open to massive interpretation. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841115</link><pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2010 17:52:08 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841115</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841115@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Aug 8 2010 1:36pm from Ragnar Danneskjold @uncnsrd       
 >I wonder, really, how many gays want to marry?       
 >        
 > Seriously.         
      
 In the Netherlands, where gay marriage has been legally recognised since
1991, same-sex couples comprise 3.6% of all marriages in that nation. This
is somewhat greater than the statistics of the gay populace, in general, when
commpared with heterosexual ratios of married/unmarried couples.     
      
    
 Thus, to answer your question, the percentage of gay couples wishing to enter
into a marriage is greater than the percentage of heterosexual couples wishing
to enter into a marriage.   
    
 This is couples vs couples, mind you, not individuals.   
    
 IIRC 36,000 or 38,000 same-sex couples were married in California during
the short time-frame wherein it was legal to do so.   
  
 I think that was a period of 4 or 6 months? Something
like that. 
  
 In other words, Ragnar, the demand is there. 
  
 And, even were it not there, it's still unconstitutional. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841113</link><pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2010 17:41:57 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841113</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841113@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >if you are unable to view it as a mere legal term, and continue to  
 >view it with a religious bias, expect to see it stripped away from  
 >everyone eventually, at least in this country.  
  
 That's what they did in the UK. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841112</link><pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2010 17:41:33 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841112</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841112@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Prop 8 *does* strip a right, as it is an outright *ban*.  Prior to  
 >that ban, same-gendered couples could marry in the state of  
 >California (and, in fact, some did).  
  
 Prop 8 flies in the face of Loving v. Virginia. It's unconstitutional period.
If you have any knowledgef as to how the common law system works in the US
& UK, then you'll see the veracity in that. Otherwise, you're just an ignorant
buffoon who is regurgitating propaganda that contradicts how the English judicial
system has functioned since its inception in Mideival times. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841111</link><pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2010 17:40:05 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841111</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841111@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Aug 8 2010 10:29am from Ragnar Danneskjold @uncnsrd   
 >Actually, the right for gays to marry is a relatively new concept, so I
 
 >don't see how you can call it "stripping their right", when it never   
 >really existed.   
  
 Actually the union of gay couples can be traced back to Ancient Rome, if
not further. 
  
 As for a heterosexual couple being important to the rearing of a child, every
psychological study ever conducted has shown children to be just as healthy
& well-adjusted who are raised by a gay couple as a straight couple. 
  
 I guess you don't think unmarried couples (living together), male/female
(that is, heterosexual couples) should raise children either? 
  
 Ragnar, you need to come out of the stone ages. Srsly! 
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<p>Hard question to answer.</p>
<p>I'm not terribly interested, myself, despite having a stable relationship (12 years now).  But I can see the appeal, where two people of the same gender might have a household to maintain together.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841077</link><pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2010 13:36:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841077</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841077@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[I wonder, really, how many gays want to marry? 
  
 Seriously.   
 s 
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<p>The whole furor over 'gay marriage' seems to be about words.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the word 'marriage' was used in a legal sense, when for some people it has religious overtones.  As I suggested before, if you are unable to view it as a mere legal term, and continue to view it with a religious bias, expect to see it stripped away from everyone eventually, at least in this country.</p>
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<p>The 'judge is gay' argument forgets who appointed him:</p>
<p>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/08/07/INO61EFPES.DTL</p>
<p>The article reminds us of some other interesting points, that the judicial system is doing what it should do, since 1803.</p>
<p>Prop 8 *does* strip a right, as it is an outright *ban*.  Prior to that ban, same-gendered couples could marry in the state of California (and, in fact, some did).</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841059</link><pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2010 10:29:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841059</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841059@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Actually, the right for gays to marry is a relatively new concept, so I don't
see how you can call it "stripping their right", when it never really existed.

  
 I have a weird view on gay marriage anyway....  I don't belive anyone should
call it a marriage.  Marriage is between men and women. 
  
 If a gay couple wants to enter into some sort of contract to protect their
property status, fine.  If they want to be able to determine end of life factors,
etc., great.  I'm not trying to keep some old gay couple apart when one is
dying in the hospital. 
  
 But, don't call it a marriage. 
  
 (I don't believe gays should be able to adopt children either.  Nor should
unwed men or women.  A *married* couple (heterosexual) is important to the
rearing of a child.  Men and women bring vastly different things to the table.)

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<p>Oh, the arrogance...</p>
<p><a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/08/07/MNPM1EQ0IP.DTL">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/08/07/MNPM1EQ0IP.DTL</a></p>
<p>Supporters for Prop 8 failed to provide credible witnesses to support their cause.  Of course, there's some controversy there, too... the judge had elected to make this a televised trial, which had scared some witnesses away.  But I should think for a law like this, it's appropriate to televise the trial.</p>
<p>But the arrogance... Protect Marriage (who had campaigned for Prop 8) said the facts the Judge demanded were irrelevant, and that a trial shouldn't have been ordered in the first place.  They say the judge should have upheld a law that blatantly stripped people of rights they might otherwise have, based entirely on the opinions of a majority ill-equipped to really understand how the bill affects a certain minority of the population, without any kind of serious discourse on the issue.  Just do what the majority says and live with it.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841010</link><pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2010 05:44:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: Marriage</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841010@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >The "estate" (and wills) are matters of the completion of contracts  
 >and are ultimately only the responsibility of the parties involved.   
  
 The problem is that the majority of individuals who die, at the time of their
death, die intestate. Thus, without marriage and estate laws, the distribution
of the individual's estate becomes a very, very thorny matter -- even moreso
if there are disputes. As it is, Surrogates Courts around the nation are overwhelmed
and do not diligently oversee activities of administrators/administratrixes
appointed to oversee the disposition of individuals' estates who die intestate.
So much abuse, corruption, etc. So sad... :( 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841009</link><pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2010 05:42:28 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841009</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841009@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Aug 6 2010 3:12pm from Spell Binder @uncnsrd   
 > Re: Gov't should get out of the marriage business.   
 >    
 > I posed a similar idea a few years back, and someone (Peter Pulse,   
 >perhaps?  
 > Plausingly perturbing) pointed out that eliminating the legal aspect  

 >of marriage would have consequences on estate law.  For example, right 
 
  
 Oh poor unknowing Binder. As of 2004 (the last time the survey was conducted,
which added over 100 laws since the first time the survey was conducted in
1996), there were 
  
 ONE THOUSAND 
  
 ONE HUNDRED 
  
 THIRTY-EIGHT 
  
 FEDERAL 
  
 LAWS 
   
 wherein marital status is a factor in conferring rights or procuring responsibilities
of married individuals. 
  
 This does *NOT* include the hundreds upon hundreds of state laws. 
  
 If you doubt the veracity of this, or think it's some propaganda by teh gays,
then please have a look-see
for yourself: 
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_U
nited_States 
  
 (the Wikipedia articles links to the source, the US Gov't itself) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841008</link><pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2010 05:37:54 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841008</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841008@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Aug 5 2010 11:06pm from fleeb @uncnsrd   
 >The gay marriage thing seems straightforward, yet it's kind of  
 >complicated.   
 >  
 >So many ways this could go.   
 >  
 >If the religious nutbars aren't careful, marriage could be denied to  
 >all people in this country quite easily based on their current  
 >arguments.  Because they keep talking about preserving its sanctity  
 >or some other such nonsense, which really comes down to "because our  
 >religion says it's only a man and a woman who can get married."  And  
 >if it can be proven that marriage is a religious thing, that whole  
 >separation of church and state bit will swoop in and kill it for  
 >everyone.   
  
 This is pretty much the situation in the UK. People there have a civil ceremony
which is the legal contract of marriage that that state recognizes. If you
want to have a ceremony in the church, then all the more
power to you. But simpy having a power in the church does not, AFAIK, grant
you any rights by the state. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2841007</link><pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2010 05:35:38 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2841007</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2841007@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >I doubt, strongly, that anyone will attempt to redo this case based  
 >on the judge's sexual orientation, though.  This case is groomed for  
 >the Supreme Court.  Ultimately, that will be its destination.  Both  
 >sides want it to go there, and so there it will go.  
  
 Don't be surprised if the argument isn't made. 
  
 However, again, Ragnar, please answer me this: 
  
 If you think a gay judge should not hear any cases involving marriage and
should have recused himself, then why would a straight judge also not recuse
themselves in such a case? 
   
 fleebiebaby, teh gays really don't want this case to go to the SCOTUS right
now .... and the case isn't groomed for the SCOTUS; rather, the judge's ruling
is. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840936</link><pubDate>Sat, 07 Aug 2010 21:56:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Re: Marriage</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840936@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Government should get out of the "estate" business as well.</p>
<p>Marriage is ultimately a private contract between two (or more!) people.</p>
<p>That church and state get involved is mere thuggery - greed disguised as benevolence.</p>
<p>The "estate" (and wills) are matters of the completion of contracts and are ultimately only the responsibility of the parties involved.</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Fri Aug 06 2010 15:12:13 EDT</span> <span>from   Spell Binder @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">Re: Gov't should get out of the marriage business.  <br /><br />I posed a similar idea a few years back, and someone (Peter Pulse, perhaps? <br />Plausingly perturbing) pointed out that eliminating the legal aspect of marriage would have consequences on estate law.  For example, right now, if a spouse dies, most, if not all states, have laws in place such that the surviving spouse will inherit all or a portion of the estate.  Without the legal authority of marriage, those kinds of decisions would have to be made by each individual. <br />Though this appeals to the libertarian in me, it becomes practically unfeasible. <br />The legal system would either be flooded with people submitting wills, or the courts would be flooded with civil cases about estate inheritance.  <br /><br />Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's impossible, but it definitely would require a good deal of planning and forethought.  <br />Estate Binder  <br /></div>
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p><br /></p>
<p>-- <br />TheOneLaw</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840630</link><pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 15:12:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2840630</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840630@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ Re: Gov't should get out of the marriage business. 
  
 I posed a similar idea a few years back, and someone (Peter Pulse, perhaps?
 Plausingly perturbing) pointed out that eliminating the legal aspect of marriage
would have consequences on estate law.  For example, right now, if a spouse
dies, most, if not all states, have laws in place such that the surviving
spouse will inherit all or a portion of the estate.  Without the legal authority
of marriage, those kinds of decisions would have to be made by each individual.
 Though this appeals to the libertarian in me, it becomes practically unfeasible.
 The legal system would either be flooded with people submitting wills, or
the courts would be flooded with civil cases about estate inheritance. 
  
 Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's impossible, but it definitely would
require a good deal of planning and forethought. 
   Estate Binder 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840525</link><pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 09:50:27 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2840525</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840525@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >If the religious nutbars aren't careful, marriage could be denied to  
 >all people in this country quite easily based on their current  
 >arguments.  Because they keep talking about preserving its sanctity  
 >or some other such nonsense, which really comes down to "because our  
 >religion says it's only a man and a woman who can get married."  And  
 >if it can be proven that marriage is a religious thing, that whole  
 >separation of church and state bit will swoop in and kill it for  
 >everyone.   
  
 And that's EXACTLY what needs to happen! 
  
 The government should get out of the marriage business COMPLETELY! 
  
 Does your religion disallow marrying a certain type of person?  Fine, don't
marry that person, or find a different religion, depending on which is more
important to you.  The government needs to get the hell *out* of that decision.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840396</link><pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 02:17:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840396@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Do Aug 05 2010 19:32:24 EDT</span> <span>von   Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Betreff: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote><br />Only time will tell whether Obama's massive spending truly halted   <br />world economic disintegration, deferred it, or added to it.  The   <br />jury is still out on how that history will be written.  It is clear   <br />though that the Bush Administration drove the bus into the sink hole.   <br /><br /></blockquote>
<br />You do realize that it wasn't Bush alone, right?  <br /><br /> You know it was the Obama administration which GAVE Chrysler away to a foreign company?<br /></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>after Crysler was first bought by Daimler 10 years ago (where they were about to fail the first time) and sold again as they found out that they had done something similar as time warner letting themselves get bought by aol? the then american hedge fond who bought it dropped them of as a hot potato as fiat came close enough to fail to resist.</p>
<p>wheres obama in that game?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840381</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 23:06:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2840381</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840381@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>The gay marriage thing seems straightforward, yet it's kind of complicated.</p>
<p>So many ways this could go.</p>
<p>If the religious nutbars aren't careful, marriage could be denied to all people in this country quite easily based on their current arguments.  Because they keep talking about preserving its sanctity or some other such nonsense, which really comes down to "because our religion says it's only a man and a woman who can get married."  And if it can be proven that marriage is a religious thing, that whole separation of church and state bit will swoop in and kill it for everyone.</p>
<p>That'd be kind of interesting.  It might even be liberating for the poor guys who want out of their marriage, heh.</p>
<p>If marriage is simply a legal contract (in the eyes of the state), then there's really no reason why two (or, frankly, more) people couldn't get married, regardless of gender.  It's a fucking *legal* *contract* in the eyes of the state.  If you want to get religious about it... well, don't let people have a religious ceremony in your particular church.  But to impose your religious point of view on the rest of the citizens in this country flies in the face of the constitution, which essentially states that no particular religion will guide the state's laws.</p>
<p>This said, I'm not sure it's a good idea to allow more than about five people to enter into this kind of contract together.  Five people can help maintain a household which, I think, is one of the reasons for entering into this kind of legal contract.  Much more than that, and it becomes ridiculously confusing.  I think the state could make a case for limiting the number of people that enter into this kind of contract.  Although five seems possibly reasonable to me, the state might elect to keep it to 2... but if it did so, would it be due to keeping it simple enough for the state to manage, or due to a religious bias?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840380</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 22:54:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840380@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Thu Aug 05 2010 19:35:17 EDT</span> <span>from   Nite*Star @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">Obama doesn't intend on doing anything to help Americans. He's all lip-service. At least Bubba &amp; Wubba, misplaces and/or misguided as they were, actually *DID* something....</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Yeah, he did pretty much the same thing Obama did.  He did what other people wanted him to do.</p>
<p>Neither of these bozos are leaders.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840379</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 22:52:09 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2840379</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840379@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>The ruling doesn't really matter.  Either side would have simply appealed it to the next higher court (as you can see).</p>
<p>So, to be completely honest, it doesn't really matter if a gay man judged this particular case.</p>
<p>However, to get to what you were really asking, I suppose it depends on whether or not he felt he could judge based on the merits of the case at hand despite being gay.  Not too different from a female judge ruling in a feminist-related case of some kind, or a black judge ruling on a case involving racial prejudice.  Such things can happen, and do.  He might even have felt he was somewhat more qualified than a straight man, as he could judge whether homosexuality is a behavior or a state of being more objectively than a straight man (who wouldn't have any idea of what it is like to be homosexual).</p>
<p>I doubt, strongly, that anyone will attempt to redo this case based on the judge's sexual orientation, though.  This case is groomed for the Supreme Court.  Ultimately, that will be its destination.  Both sides want it to go there, and so there it will go.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840339</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 20:41:57 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2840339</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840339@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Aug 5 2010 7:34pm from Nite*Star @uncnsrd   
 > > Should this case really have been ruled upon by a gay man?     
 >    
 > What makes you think he's gay, and why would the sexual orientation of
 
 >a noted juror make any difference at all? Should the case have been   
 >ruled upon by a straight man?   
 >   
 >  
  
 Because he's openly gay..... 
  
 http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/aug/10080503.html 
  
 He should have recused himself.   
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840300</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:35:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2840300</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840300@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Obama doesn't intend on doing anything to help Americans. He's all lip-service.
At least Bubba & Wubba, misplaces and/or misguided as they were, actually
*DID* something.... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840299</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:34:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2840299</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840299@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Should this case really have been ruled upon by a gay man?   
  
 What makes you think he's gay, and why would the sexual orientation of a
noted juror make any difference at all? Should the case have been ruled upon
by a straight man? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840298</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:33:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2840298</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840298@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Aug 5 2010 7:29pm from Nite*Star @uncnsrd   
 > > Aug 5 2010 7:12am from fleeb @uncnsrd       
 > >Yeah, now it goes to the Supreme Court, I'm sure.       
 > >      
 > >The argument will likely come down to whether or not, legally,      
 > >homosexuality is viewed as a state of being, or a chosen behavior.   
 
 >  
 > >  It's gonna get weird.      
 >      
  
 Should this case really have been ruled upon by a gay man? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840297</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:33:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2840297</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840297@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > If torture doesn't work, why do US Special Forces units and the SAS   
 >train their members in torture resistance?   
  
 Because torture, as practice in the United States by its government, is a
farcical romp in the hay with the Farmer's Daughter. Torture, as practiced
by rogue agents and other not-so-nice governments around the globe, is an
effective means of interrogation. Thus, torture resistance training is a good
idea for agents who may encounter such elements around the globe. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840296</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:32:24 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840296@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >  
 >Only time will tell whether Obama's massive spending truly halted  
 >world economic disintegration, deferred it, or added to it.  The  
 >jury is still out on how that history will be written.  It is clear  
 >though that the Bush Administration drove the bus into the sink hole.  
 >  
  
 You do realize that it wasn't Bush alone, right? 
  
 You know that the Democrats ignored the problems with Fannie Mae and Freddie
Mac for years?  You know they made laws that forced banks to provide loans
based on race, not on ability to pay?  You know that TARP money was used,
after Obama entered office to support "at risk" mortgeges, under the "Making
Homes Affordable" plan?  Who is the primary recipient?  Minorities.  You know
that the exiting Bush administration worked with the incomming Obama administration
to purchase GM, at the Obama administrations request?  You know it was the
Obama
administration which GAVE Chrysler away to a foreign company[A?[?   
  
 Obama doesn't give a damn about helping America.  He believes in "spreading
the wealth around".  He's a socialist, plain and simple. 
  
 There is plenty of blame to go around....  But forgetting 9/11 could have
thrown the country into an economic disaster, which didn't happen took extraordinary
measures.  Unfortunately, both sides made things worse by leaving those measures
in place too long......  It created a housing boom that never should have
taken place.   
  
 Obama is now placing more industries under government control, instead of
actually fixing anything in the economy. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840292</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:29:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2840292</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840292@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Aug 5 2010 7:12am from fleeb @uncnsrd     
 >Yeah, now it goes to the Supreme Court, I'm sure.     
 >    
 >The argument will likely come down to whether or not, legally,    
 >homosexuality is viewed as a state of being, or a chosen behavior.    
 > It's gonna get weird.    
    
 No, its first stop will the the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth
Circuit. Cases don't go directly from federal district court to the SCOTUS.
  
  
  
 I haven't yet read the decision but where are you getting your summation
as to the binding legal question? Legally, that's not a question, as you put
it, fleeb. That's more of a question of fact, which the trial court has ruled
upon and, barring any improprieties, something that appellate courts generally
can not (and therefore do not) modify. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840289</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:18:43 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2840289</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840289@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Just some food for thought -  
  
 If torture doesn't work, why do US Special Forces units and the SAS train
their members in torture resistance? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840286</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:15:56 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2840286</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840286@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 when did this turn into the retard room? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840285</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:13:52 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2840285</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840285@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[This is more scientific..... 
  
 http://www.world-science.net/othernews/090921_torture 
  
 (Andis against torture...) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840284</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:08:51 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2840284</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840284@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Aug 5 2010 4:34pm from fleeb @uncnsrd   
 >    
 > Wonder if this helps:   
 >    
 > http://www.livescience.com/history/071019-torture-history.html   
 >   
 >  
  
 I really don't see that as being any more scientific than this: 
  
 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/20/AR200904200281
8.html 
  
 or  
  
 http://tinyurl.com/dzzvrz 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840237</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 18:05:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840237@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Is that your idea of critical thinking skills?  It's the second and  
 >third time you've floated straw men for me to defend.   
  
 You're accusing me of flawed debating tactics in order to drive attention
away from the fact that your own debating tactics are flawed.  You've been
doing that for years.  We can see through it; it isn't going to work again.

]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840169</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 16:46:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2840169</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840169@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Or maybe this: 
  
 http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/013585.php 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840166</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 16:34:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2840166</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840166@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[  
 Wonder if this helps: 
  
 http://www.livescience.com/history/071019-torture-history.html 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840156</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 16:14:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840156@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Wed Aug 04 2010 12:17:16 PM EDT</span> <span>from   Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote>Yes, we disagree.  I've provided cites, you've waved your little   <br />hand.   <br /><br /></blockquote>
<br />Your cites said "torture doesn't work" with no scientific evidence.  Sorry, that doesn't count any more than my assertions.   <br /><br />Show me some science.  <br /></div>
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>Setting irrational thresholds is disingenuous.  I provided cites from experts, you've waved your hand dismissing them as not reaching your level of acceptance, "scientific."  Tell me, what is "scientific evidence" of torture?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2840152</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 16:07:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2840152@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Wed Aug 04 2010 10:49:39 AM EDT</span> <span>from   IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote>difficult.  Economic conservativism is fine, laudable even, but   <br />people like Sarah Palin are a blight on any association which   <br />tolerates her idiocy.   <br /></blockquote>
<br />Sarah Palin is a brilliant leader and I would be honored to be one of her constituents.  <br /><br />You are aware that Sarah Palin and Tina Fey are two different people, right? <br />Of course you aren't.  You're a Democrat.  <br /></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Is that your idea of critical thinking skills?  It's the second and third time you've floated straw men for me to defend.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Go fish.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Do you live in Alaska?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2839970</link><pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 07:12:02 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2839970</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2839970@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Yeah, now it goes to the Supreme Court, I'm sure.</p>
<p>The argument will likely come down to whether or not, legally, homosexuality is viewed as a state of being, or a chosen behavior.  It's gonna get weird.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2839777</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 18:46:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2839777</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2839777@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Hon. Vaughn Walker, Chief Judge-U.S. District Court for the 9th Circuit, holds
California's Prop 8 "unconstitutional." http://nyti.ms/dhGBLU 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2839766</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 18:31:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2839766</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2839766@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>ok, there is an exception to that, its nintendo and the wii.</p>
<p>though it most probably was done because of they couldn't hold step with the computing power race.</p>
<p>but for a that big company, quiet a big jump.</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Mi Aug 04 2010 17:24:21 EDT</span> <span>von   Nite*Star @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote>This said, I don't know if IBM follows the general rule in that way.   <br /> Most large companies spend a lot of money not on R&amp;D, but on   <br />mergers and acquisitions.  Or holding off lawsuits, heh.   <br /></blockquote>
<br />In 2009, IBM had a R&amp;D budget of $6billion (US $6,000,000,000)  <br /><br />A number of nobel prize recipients (in science) received their prize for work they performed on behalf of a big corporation (as an employee thereof). <br /><br />See, e.g., <a href="http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/article/193405661.html" target="webcit01">http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/article/193405661.html</a> <br /><br />and  <br /><br /><a href="http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/20/technology/obrien_ibm.fortune/index.htm" target="webcit01">http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/20/technology/obrien_ibm.fortune/index.htm</a> <br /></div>
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>there is a difference between innovation and innovation. There is the 'I want that chip 30% smaller, use 50% less energy and deliver 50 % more performance, I want to achieve that in 2 years, i'll put n-persons at it; in the average everybody will do n % of what needs to be done in half a year, so I need a 50 people team.</p>
<p>After two years, you'll have a look at it, and maybe its 10^ smaller, uses twice as much power, but has 3000% of the original performance; you'll have several dozend patents shielding those advances.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And then theres stuff like the 'flux compensator'(you probably know the story ;-) which is totaly unparalelled, nobody else has even had the visiot this could be done, and that it could be done that way.</p>
<p>the later you won't find in big companies. They evolve (a little) and move into directions like giant snails, but they don't jump like a cangoroo</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2839719</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 17:24:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2839719</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2839719@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >This said, I don't know if IBM follows the general rule in that way.  
 > Most large companies spend a lot of money not on R&D, but on  
 >mergers and acquisitions.  Or holding off lawsuits, heh.  
  
 In 2009, IBM had a R&D budget of $6billion (US $6,000,000,000) 
  
 A number of nobel prize recipients (in science) received their prize for
work they performed on behalf of a big corporation (as an employee thereof).

  
 See, e.g., http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/article/193405661.html

  
 and 
  
 http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/20/technology/obrien_ibm.fortune/index.htm 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2839717</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 17:20:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2839717@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >take a look at what IBM did way back in the 80'ies and 90'ies, not  
 >much of inovation. Its been an oil-tanker dead in the water loaded  
 >with MS-Smart-ship, and took 20 years to get itself going again   
  
 That's the direct result of bad and mis-management of the company, not of
the company's inability to innovate. :p 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2839666</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 14:27:48 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2839666</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2839666@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Actually I think the usefulness of a research division has little to do with
the size of the company.  In order to make it successful you need to do two
things: 
  
 First, you need to let your researchers run free and come up with cool stuff.
 If you lock them into a specific path then they're not really a research
group.  IBM used to do quite a lot of this.  They still do quite a bit. 
  
 Second, you *then* need to set up a division to take the new technology developed
by the research group and drive that technology into new products and services.

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<p>Ragnar:</p>
<p>Typically, large companies buy little companies that are doing ground-breaking innovation within their general area of expertise.  They do not, as a rule, innovate.</p>
<p>IBM holds a lot of patents, but I don't know if they gained those patents while they were a large company, or from smaller companies that held them first.  Purchasing patents with the smaller companies is part of the game.  Part of the draw, too.</p>
<p>This said, I don't know if IBM follows the general rule in that way.  Most large companies spend a lot of money not on R&amp;D, but on mergers and acquisitions.  Or holding off lawsuits, heh.</p>
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<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Mi Aug 04 2010 12:23:14 EDT</span> <span>von   Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">fleeb - you say innovation comes from small and mid-sized firms, but there are certain types of research that can only be done by large companies.  Take a look at the number of patents filed by IBM as an example......  <br /></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>take a look at what IBM did way back in the 80'ies and 90'ies, not much of inovation. Its been an oil-tanker dead in the water loaded with MS-Smart-ship, and took 20 years to get itself going again</p>
<p>a little to mid size company simply can't afford to stagnate that long.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Also have a look at your mobile market... Ma-Bell had been from the 70'ies what IBM was in the 90ies. A nerdy person like IG would have owned a smartphone in europe for almost 8 years now. He eventually managed to get one half a year ago, and not from one of those traditional US telcos. why?</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2839601</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:23:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2839601</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2839601@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[fleeb - you say innovation comes from small and mid-sized firms, but there
are certain types of research that can only be done by large companies.  Take
a look at the number of patents filed by IBM as an example...... 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2839600</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:21:58 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2839600</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2839600@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Ed Koch was on the radio a couple of weeks ago talking about Sarah Palin -
he said that no one should underestimate her and she is NOT stupid at all.
 You can disagree with her, but to underestimate her is a huge mistake. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2839599</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 12:17:16 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2839599@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Yes, we disagree.  I've provided cites, you've waved your little  
 >hand.  
 >  
  
 Your cites said "torture doesn't work" with no scientific evidence.  Sorry,
that doesn't count any more than my assertions.  
  
 Show me some science. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2839550</link><pubDate>Wed, 04 Aug 2010 10:49:39 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2839550@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >difficult.  Economic conservativism is fine, laudable even, but  
 >people like Sarah Palin are a blight on any association which  
 >tolerates her idiocy.  
  
 Sarah Palin is a brilliant leader and I would be honored to be one of her
constituents. 
  
 You are aware that Sarah Palin and Tina Fey are two different people, right?
 Of course you aren't.  You're a Democrat. 
  
 You claim to be an independent thinker but so far all you've done is spout
standard Democrat rhetoric and talking points.  Blame Bush, blame Bush, blame
Bush, blame Bush, Republicans are evil, blame Bush, blah blah blah blah. 
There's more to it than that. 
  
 If we're going to find our way out of The Obama Recession it's going to take
work, not blame.  It's going to take change, not vacuous talk about change.
 It's going to take a total reboot of our leadership and the way we think
about leadership.  Hell, it's going to take *actual leadership* rather than
people just pushing along with their agendas. 
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Tue Aug 03 2010 20:22:51 EDT</span> <span>from   Rob Miller @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_header"><br /></div>
<div class="message_header">Remember where this discussion began, with someone's "the Obama Recession" (I think that's correct) when referring to events precipitated by the Bush administration and Republicans.  Yeah, some Democrats too but the movers and shakers of invading Iraq, for instance, were Republicans.  "NeoCons."  At least they got the last half correct.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I do remember that the discussion started with IG saying that, not Ragnar.</p>
<p>However, your words were aimed at Ragnar.</p>
<p>And, in any event, I love seeing reasoned discourse, but I'm not as much a fan of outright flames.  Which isn't entirely true, I suppose... I love watching a creative flame war, but that's mostly out of an appreciation for the creative effort some people put into the art of the insult.  In a political discussion, it's more interesting to see reasoned arguments.</p>
<p>Ragnar and I have a long history of sparring here (at least during Bush's terms), so if I seem like I am tolerant of his views, it's mostly that we agree to disagree, or at least have already covered a lot of ground with each other and don't have as much to rehash.  It's even more amusing, though, when we agree on something, which happens on rare occasions.  It's almost like Armageddon is coming or something.</p>
<p>Wish you had been around back when we decided to swap places.  That was kinda funny.  For a full month, we privately sent each other arguments, swapping them publically, in part because it was funny, but also in part to see if anyone would notice.  Folks here did notice, which proved to me that our particular extremes don't seem to come back around to the middle again.</p>
<p>I guess I'm just pointing out that you can still have pointed discussions here, but you'll probably enjoy it more if you don't get too personal.</p>
<p>obPolitics: I do think it's unfair to characterize this recession as 'Obama's' recession, but I don't think the man is doing much to improve things.  He seems, likely, to be doing things that will drag it out.</p>
<p>But I'm not ready to blame this recession on Bush, or Republicans, either.  I think we were due.  The banks engaged in risky practices, made more attractive by some incentives the government provided (Democrats, primarily).  Had certain banks not given in to the government's temptation, we might be on far more stable ground now... or something else might have happened.  We'll never really know.</p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_content">
<p>I've certainly not defended Democrats, they live in a reality distinct and apart from ours.  Or at least mine.  However I view them with sadness, altruism with others money and lives is pathetic.  Republicans, on the other hand, are either evil or stupid.  That is intolerable.  We seem to be pretty much on the same page, evidently I have less tolerance for the Republican apologists than you do.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Hrm... I'm not sure I entirely buy that the Democrats are all that altruistic, though.  They just want to take our public funds and put them into their own happy little projects, which happen to seem altruistic.  Republicans want the money to go into businesses.  I wouldn't mind that so much if the businesses they helped were small to medium sized businesses... but they focus instead on large businesses, which to me is rather short-sighted.  Innovation takes place at the small to medium sized business, not at the large ones.</p>
<p>I'm a pretty tolerant person, overall, I guess.  Experience has taught me that people rarely change their views, even in the light of reasoned discourse.  But I still like the reasoned arguments here as I occasionally learn something interesting as a consequence.</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Aug 01 2010 10:50:14 PM EDT</span> <span>from   Harbard @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>Fleeb...it's because the Republicans were NOT following the policies of Reagan that we we have the the economic problems we have today.</p>
<p>Note:  Reagan believed in smaller goverment, lower taxes.  He didn't always live up to his own ideals. Like every other human being.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I commend you on being a master of understatement.</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Aug 01 2010 08:58:30 PM EDT</span> <span>from   IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">&lt;snip&gt;<br />The only people who seem to be making any sense right now are the Tea Party movement.  Sure, the Democrats keep saying that they're just a bunch of troublemaking Republicans, but that's not how I'm seeing it.  The tea partiers are calling for a return to responsible, accountable, and SMALLER government -- something the GOP failed to do when they were in power.  (The democrats are far worse, but they're both responsible.)  <br /></div>
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>Most are well-meaning but there are *many* provocateurs, quite a number of stealth Republicans, and an inordinate number of bigots and racists.  Trying to separate the wheat from the chaff is difficult.  Economic conservativism is fine, laudable even, but people like Sarah Palin are a blight on any association which tolerates her idiocy.</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Aug 01 2010 08:58:30 PM EDT</span> <span>from   IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">It's exactly that polarization that's doing so much of the damage.  [D Now, I'm sure Ragnar will say "having two opposite parties is good because it usually puts us somewhere in the middle" but we need to get off that ride entirely. <br />Two sides of the same America-destroying coin.  We need accountability, responsibility, transparency.  Instead of raising the debt ceiling every time we're about to hit it, we need to pass a balanced budget amendment and stick with it. <br />Who's going to do that?  Democrats and Republicans, both beholden to special interests?  We all know it isn't going to happen.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>That, I can agree with but wasn't it you who blamed today's economic conditions on Obama?</p>
<p>Only time will tell whether Obama's massive spending truly halted world economic disintegration, deferred it, or added to it.  The jury is still out on how that history will be written.  It is clear though that the Bush Administration drove the bus into the sink hole.</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Aug 01 2010 10:04:25 AM EDT</span> <span>from   fleeb @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Aug 01 2010 05:36:01 EDT</span> <span>from   Rob Miller @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Fri Jul 30 2010 08:52:20 PM EDT</span> <span>from   Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_header"><br /></div>
<div class="message_header">Funny how you're quick to blame Bush for a devestated economy, yet you don't blame the Democrats for the last 4 years of their control of Congress, nor the unimaginable damage they've done since Obama took office.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>2- I do not consider the devestated economy funny in the slightest.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Okay, if I felt like continuing this game, I would say, "Since you don't see anything at all peculiar about the economy, you have no problem with it.  So why are you going on about it?"</p>
<p>Or, I might react with something like, "Funny how you can't discern when someone means funny-peculiar vs. funny-amusing.  Which do I mean right now?"</p>
<p>But, instead, I'll just suggest that your acidic attempt at word play curried no favor with me, and makes me less-inclined to take you seriously.  But, I'm still holding out hope.  It's at least an interesting conversation, so far.  But if you're truly interested in debate and not just trashing people with a different point of view, you might avoid doing stuff like that.</p>
<p>As for the topic itself, the economy is not 'devastated'.  It's suffering, badly, but it isn't destroyed by a long shot.  If it were truly destroyed, I think you'd see some really radical changes going on in this country, along the lines of what happened to the Roman Empire after Constantine separated the rich half from the poor half (and took the rich half).  That's about the time Europe devolved into a feudal society, with lords and vassals.</p>
<p>I would argue that the economy is correcting itself from previous abuses, and will be stable in a few more years, regardless of who is at the helm of the country.  Unless, of course, some new form of abuse fucks it up.</p>
<p>Which kind of makes me worry about the Democrats.  This foray into social medicine (if by another name) is disturbing, and doesn't look to me as if it actually solves the underlying problem of skyrocketing medical costs.  It seems more like it's making the ridiculous costs of medicine somewhat more affordable to certain people without actually doing anything to prevent them from getting further out of control.  It's... well... stupid.  Right at a time when we need smart.  We've already had about eight years of stupid... it sucks that we're enduring four more.</p>
<p>Much as I love bashing the Democrats ballooning of expenses, I don't view the Republicans as having helped in the matter.  They have been following the lessons of Reagan for too many years, in spending more than the country takes in through taxes (kind of like a reverse Robin Hood... they want to rob from the poor, and give to the rich).  They've taken our military and expanded it beyond reason.  It's sick, really.</p>
<p>And both of those parties don't even blink about saying some of the most fucked up things I've ever heard in my life, as it relates to public policy.  I never thought Americans would become so ... I dunno ... stupid?  That both sides of the political fence can say and do whatever the fuck they feel like, it seems, and get away with it.  Like they're some kind of damned lord or something.  I would not be at all surprised if Congress eventually enacted legislation saying that some people are more equal than others (a la Animal Farm).</p>
<br /><br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>Remember where this discussion began, with someone's "the Obama Recession" (I think that's correct) when referring to events precipitated by the Bush administration and Republicans.  Yeah, some Democrats too but the movers and shakers of invading Iraq, for instance, were Republicans.  "NeoCons."  At least they got the last half correct.</p>
<p>I've certainly not defended Democrats, they live in a reality distinct and apart from ours.  Or at least mine.  However I view them with sadness, altruism with others money and lives is pathetic.  Republicans, on the other hand, are either evil or stupid.  That is intolerable.  We seem to be pretty much on the same page, evidently I have less tolerance for the Republican apologists than you do.</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Aug 01 2010 09:47:11 AM EDT</span> <span>from   Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote><br />Returning to that thread, we are now seeing the result of Republicans   <br />cutting taxes for the rich, conducting two constitutionally illegal   <br />wars simultaneously, without budgeting costs and off-shoring of   <br />jobs.  Are those the programs you and the other guy want to return   <br />to?   <br /><br /></blockquote>
<br />How are the wars Constitutionally illegal?  Or are you going to say that Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Lebannon, Libya, and the first Iraq war were too? <br /><br />Guess what, Congress voted to fund all of the above.  No, there may not have been a declaration of war, but funding the damn things is tantamount to the same.  <br /><br />And, since when did the government offshore jobs?  <br /><br />American companies have been offshoring for decades.  Why?  Unionization, bad environmental laws, and a hostile tax code.  <br /><br />Make America a place where companies WANT to do business, and that will stop. <br /><br /></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I simply do not believe you are that ignorant and denial will get you nowhere fast.</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Aug 01 2010 09:40:21 AM EDT</span> <span>from   Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote>Perhaps you should research the subject more before offering an   <br />uneducated opinion.  As before you speak in absolutes, "proof".    <br />One must look at the evidence and studies by experts as to validity   <br />of torture-derived testimony.    <br /><br /></blockquote>
<br />I've looked many times.  Neither side can provide statisics to prove their point.  You're guilty of the exact same thing, just spouting "it doesn't work". <br />And the works you've cited are no better.  <br /><br />Show me the science, and then maybe we can agree.  Otherwise, we're both stating opinions, and we disagree.    <br /></div>
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes, we disagree.  I've provided cites, you've waved your little hand.</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Aug 01 2010 09:38:23 AM EDT</span> <span>from   Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote><br />Republicans are evil, Democrats are spineless, inept but well   <br />meaning.  Look at the unemployment benefit extention debate now   <br />going on.  Republicans have no difficulty letting families suffering   <br />from the depression lose their homes and go hungry but fight tooth   <br />and nail for tax cuts for the rich.   <br /><br /></blockquote>
<br />See - I knew you were a Democrat.  <br /><br />The tax cuts were for EVERYONE.  Not rich or poor - just Americans.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Where do you get this stuff?  "By allowing marginal tax rates on the top couple percent of earners to  revert to their pre-cut levels of 36% and 39.6%, the government will  gain an added $479 billion in revenue over the next ten years, according  to calculations done by <strong>Alan Auerbach</strong> of the <strong>University of California, Berkeley</strong> and <strong>William Gale</strong> of the <strong>Brookings Institution</strong>."</p>
<p>And that's just one of the perks Bush gave his rich buddies.  Continuing to hurl names will not get enlightened dialog.</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Aug 01 2010 09:41:11 AM EDT</span> <span>from   Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote><br />What I do personally is not in the name of our nation.  That   <br />extrapolation doesn't hold water.   <br /><br /></blockquote>
<br />No, what you do personally may save one life.  What is done in the name of the nation may save thousands or more.  <br /></div>
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<p>No, torture in the name of our nation tars us all.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2839321</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 17:53:40 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2839321@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Hyperbole is our speciality.  And we're proud of it!  Quing is what Quing is not.  No chin, no legs.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2839255</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 14:42:48 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2839255@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Icaught the "Osama" misrepresentation but oh, my, I thought I was  
 >communicating with rational people.  Birthers too?   
  
 Welcome to Uncensored! :) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2839214</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 13:12:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2839214</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2839214@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p><a href="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/08/sharron-angle-press-should-ask.html">http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2010/08/sharron-angle-press-should-ask.html</a></p>
<p>Senatorial GOP candidate in Nevada Sharron Angle wants the press to ask the questions she wants to answer.</p>
<p>So they'll report the news the way she wants it reported.</p>
<p>*shakes head*</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2839043</link><pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 05:31:17 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2839043</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2839043@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Reagan might have wanted to keep to a balanced budget, but he didn't.  And, unfortunately, he paved the way for Republicans to be as irresponsible as Democrats when it comes to a budget... whether he intended to be that president or not.</p>
<p>I suspect he intended to outspend the Russian on a temporary basis, then return to a proper budget again.  But that never happened.</p>
<p>And so, here we are.  Out of control.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838877</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:49:20 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2838877</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838877@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[The best we've had in decades, to be sure, but far from perfect.  For example,
he brought with him a first lady who kicked off the "war on personal freedom"
with her "just say no" campaign. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838854</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 21:47:34 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2838854</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838854@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>He was small government.  But he did run up a large deficit to defeat the Soviet Union.  He also failed to eliminate the Department of Education.  Don't get me wrong, I like Reagan and 99% of what he stood for.  But he was not perfect.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838847</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 21:07:13 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2838847</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838847@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[Reagan said the two things he regreted about his Presidency was that he didn't
get the Line Item Veto or the Balanced Budget Amenedment passed. 
  
 Sounds like a small government guy to me. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838762</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 15:14:15 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2838762</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838762@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Yeah, but who cares what she thinks?</p>
<p>It's almost like asking Vanna White for political opinions.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838651</link><pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 10:47:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2838651</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838651@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Problem is, of course, that the media makes them look silly.  The  
 >media chooses some of the worst representations of the movement and  
 >puts the camera on them, while ignoring the ones that make sense.   
  
 It isn't only the media.  Michelle Obama accused the Tea Partiers a few weeks
ago of being a bunch of racists. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838520</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 23:53:44 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838520@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Aug 01 2010 22:50:14 EDT</span> <span>from   Harbard @ Uncensored </span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<p>Fleeb...it's because the Republicans were NOT following the policies of Reagan that we we have the the economic problems we have today.</p>
<p>Note:  Reagan believed in smaller goverment, lower taxes.  He didn't always live up to his own ideals. Like every other human being.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Which Reagan are you talking about?  Here's the Reagan I refer to:</p>
<p><a href="http://mediamatters.org/research/201007160027">http://mediamatters.org/research/201007160027</a></p>
<p>If only the Republicans weren't spending us into debt like the Democrats, I'd still be Republican.  Well, maybe... hard to say... I don't like the partisan nature of our politics today.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>The Republican party is like any other political party.  It believes in electing Republicans.  It has no other principals or morals.  That is why you get Republicans like John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Olympia Snow, Susan Collins, and the Bush dynasty.  The believe in big goverment too....just not quite as big as the Democrats.  That is also why they are having such trouble this year.  With all the problem the Democrats are having and President Obama's low popularity ratings, the Republicans should be taking names and kicking ass.  The problem is no one really believes that they will <span style="text-decoration: underline;">EVEN TRY</span> to do what they claim they stand for.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yeah, I don't much care for party politics for this reason.  The party focuses on getting their own people elected with little to no regard for doing what's really good for the country.  After elections, they try to keep their politicians toeing their party line, again, without regard for what the country really needs.  It's awful.  I think someone here once (many years ago) took me to task for my anti-party-politics position, suggesting that without party politics you'd have cronyism.  Yet, that's all I see in party politics, so I'm not sure what the person was suggesting.</p>
<p>The Republicans had a chance to solve some problems in their own way, and they blew it.  They had many opportunities to fix some problems with our country, and they ignored them.  It comes as no surprise the Democrats were put into power now... unfortunately, they're not so great, either.  They're too interested in pushing their socialist agenda forward, even as the Republicans pushed their corporate agendas forward.</p>
<p>*sigh*</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838512</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 22:50:14 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2838512</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838512@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Fleeb...it's because the Republicans were NOT following the policies of Reagan that we we have the the economic problems we have today.</p>
<p>Note:  Reagan believed in smaller goverment, lower taxes.  He didn't always live up to his own ideals. Like every other human being.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The Republican party is like any other political party.  It believes in electing Republicans.  It has no other principals or morals.  That is why you get Republicans like John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Olympia Snow, Susan Collins, and the Bush dynasty.  The believe in big goverment too....just not quite as big as the Democrats.  That is also why they are having such trouble this year.  With all the problem the Democrats are having and President Obama's low popularity ratings, the Republicans should be taking names and kicking ass.  The problem is no one really believes that they will <span style="text-decoration: underline;">EVEN TRY</span> to do what they claim they stand for.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>IG...the middle sucks.  If you stand in the middle, everyone throws things at you.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Freedom is good, more freedom is better.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838511</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 22:44:29 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2838511</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838511@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Although, honestly, I still hold out hope for the Libertarian party.  They've made more sense than the other two, and have been at it longer than the Tea Party.  While, sure, there are some nutbars in the Libertarian party, it doesn't seem any less silly than the Democrats or the Republicans.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838509</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 22:40:38 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2838509</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838509@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p>Yeah, what the Democrats don't seem to realize is that the Tea Party folks are composed of both sides of that political divide.  People who were formerly Republicans and formerly Democrats are kind of jumping on that bandwagon.</p>
<p>Problem is, of course, that the media makes them look silly.  The media chooses some of the worst representations of the movement and puts the camera on them, while ignoring the ones that make sense.</p>
<p>But then, I think the media is kind of culpable here.</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838497</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 20:58:30 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838497@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[It's exactly that polarization that's doing so much of the damage.  [D Now,
I'm sure Ragnar will say "having two opposite parties is good because it usually
puts us somewhere in the middle" but we need to get off that ride entirely.
 Two sides of the same America-destroying coin.  We need accountability, responsibility,
transparency.  Instead of raising the debt ceiling every time we're about
to hit it, we need to pass a balanced budget amendment and stick with it.
 Who's going to do that?  Democrats and Republicans, both beholden to special
interests?  We all know it isn't going to happen. 
  
 The only people who seem to be making any sense right now are the Tea Party
movement.  Sure, the Democrats keep saying that they're just a bunch of troublemaking
Republicans, but that's not how I'm seeing it.  The tea partiers are calling
for a return to responsible, accountable, and SMALLER government
-- something the GOP failed to do when they were in power.  (The democrats
are far worse, but they're both responsible.) 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838327</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 10:04:25 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838327@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sun Aug 01 2010 05:36:01 EDT</span> <span>from   Rob Miller @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Fri Jul 30 2010 08:52:20 PM EDT</span> <span>from   Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_header"><br /></div>
<div class="message_header">Funny how you're quick to blame Bush for a devestated economy, yet you don't blame the Democrats for the last 4 years of their control of Congress, nor the unimaginable damage they've done since Obama took office.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>2- I do not consider the devestated economy funny in the slightest.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Okay, if I felt like continuing this game, I would say, "Since you don't see anything at all peculiar about the economy, you have no problem with it.  So why are you going on about it?"</p>
<p>Or, I might react with something like, "Funny how you can't discern when someone means funny-peculiar vs. funny-amusing.  Which do I mean right now?"</p>
<p>But, instead, I'll just suggest that your acidic attempt at word play curried no favor with me, and makes me less-inclined to take you seriously.  But, I'm still holding out hope.  It's at least an interesting conversation, so far.  But if you're truly interested in debate and not just trashing people with a different point of view, you might avoid doing stuff like that.</p>
<p>As for the topic itself, the economy is not 'devastated'.  It's suffering, badly, but it isn't destroyed by a long shot.  If it were truly destroyed, I think you'd see some really radical changes going on in this country, along the lines of what happened to the Roman Empire after Constantine separated the rich half from the poor half (and took the rich half).  That's about the time Europe devolved into a feudal society, with lords and vassals.</p>
<p>I would argue that the economy is correcting itself from previous abuses, and will be stable in a few more years, regardless of who is at the helm of the country.  Unless, of course, some new form of abuse fucks it up.</p>
<p>Which kind of makes me worry about the Democrats.  This foray into social medicine (if by another name) is disturbing, and doesn't look to me as if it actually solves the underlying problem of skyrocketing medical costs.  It seems more like it's making the ridiculous costs of medicine somewhat more affordable to certain people without actually doing anything to prevent them from getting further out of control.  It's... well... stupid.  Right at a time when we need smart.  We've already had about eight years of stupid... it sucks that we're enduring four more.</p>
<p>Much as I love bashing the Democrats ballooning of expenses, I don't view the Republicans as having helped in the matter.  They have been following the lessons of Reagan for too many years, in spending more than the country takes in through taxes (kind of like a reverse Robin Hood... they want to rob from the poor, and give to the rich).  They've taken our military and expanded it beyond reason.  It's sick, really.</p>
<p>And both of those parties don't even blink about saying some of the most fucked up things I've ever heard in my life, as it relates to public policy.  I never thought Americans would become so ... I dunno ... stupid?  That both sides of the political fence can say and do whatever the fuck they feel like, it seems, and get away with it.  Like they're some kind of damned lord or something.  I would not be at all surprised if Congress eventually enacted legislation saying that some people are more equal than others (a la Animal Farm).</p>
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]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838326</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 10:03:38 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838326@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ > Aug 1 2010 5:36am from Rob Miller @uncnsrd   
 >Subject: Re:  
 >    
 >> Fri Jul 30 2010 08:52:20 PM EDT from   Ragnar Danneskjold @  
 >>Uncensored  Subject: Re:  
 >>  
 >>     
 >>>  
 >>>Written by the Republicans _prior_ to 9/11.  PNAC had both the war  
 >>>    
 >>>and Patriot Act planned in advance of even Bush's term.      
 >>>  
 >>>   
 >>>  
 >>>Yeah, traitorous Democrats signed off.  They submitted to threats   
 >>>   
 >>>and pressure from the White House and Republicans, do you not     
 >>>remember the context of only 6 years ago?  Hold-outs were  
 >>>lambasted     
 >>>as "unpatriotic" and not given time to read the thousand-plus pages  
 >>>    
 >>>being told that we are at war, hurry up so we can win!      
 >>>  
 >>>What did we win?  A devestated economy, loss of Constitutional     
 >>>rights and assumption of guilt.     
 >>>  
 >>>  
 >  
 >>   
 >>PNAC.
 What a joke.  A one line mention of another Hiroshima type  
 >>event, and that's all you have to go on.    
 >>  
 >>Funny how you're quick to blame Bush for a devestated economy, yet  
 >>you don't blame the Democrats for the last 4 years of their control  
 >>of Congress, nor the unimaginable damage they've done since Obama  
 >>took office.    
 >>  
 >>You talk about ram rodding through 1000+ page legislation with the  
 >>Patriot Act, yet, you make no mention of the wholesale takeover of  
 >>1/6th of the economy with the health care bill.  A bill that Pelosi  
 >>told us they had to pass "so we could find out what was in it."    
 >>  
 >>Please.....    
 >>  
 >>  
 >>   
 >>  
 >>  
 >>   
 >  
 >   
 >  
 >1- You cannot wave your paw and dismiss the genesis of events,  
 >players or special interests who precipitated today's catastrophes.   
 >  
 >2- I do not consider the devestated
economy funny in the slightest.   
 >  
 >3-  "Quick" took years, I voted for Bush (I'm ashamed to say) in  
 >2000.  Blame is placed on the deserved.   
 >  
 >4- Democrats has a slim majority in 2007/8, insufficient to override  
 >the multiple faux-filibusters of Republicans.  Programs set in  
 >motion when Bush had Republican control could not be halted.  Even  
 >now Democrats are stymied by faux-filibusters.   
 >  
 >5- The thread has been the assertion that this economy is "Osama's"  
 >fault, there was no need to speak about the health care bill.   
 >  
 >    
 >  
 >Returning to that thread, we are now seeing the result of Republicans  
 >cutting taxes for the rich, conducting two constitutionally illegal  
 >wars simultaneously, without budgeting costs and off-shoring of  
 >jobs.  Are those the programs you and the other guy want to return  
 >to?  
 >  
  
 The genesis,
like ignoring Muslim terrorism under Carter, where America became the laughing
stock of the world?  The Iranian hostage crisis was a huge embarrasment. 
When Brezhnev told Carter that Theran wouldn't exist any more if that had
happened to the Russians, he gave us a green light to take care of the problem.
 Instead, we have pussyfooted around the problem for 30 years or more.  Pathetic.

  
 And, who thinks economic problems are funny?  Not any of us here.  But, we
do know that when we have economic problems, waving the magic Keynesian flag
over it doesn't make the problem go away.  Cut spending, cut taxes.  You don't
quadruple the deficit.  You don't make multi-trillion dollar decisions like
the health care bill. 
  
 No, you get Americans working again.  You make the business environment a
healthy one.  You don't just extend unemployment benefits forever. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838318</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:50:37 +0500</pubDate><title>Message #2838318</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838318@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >>2) Muslims BEHEAD unbelievers.  They cut hands off of thiefs, and  
 >>tongues out of liars.  You think that us applying a bit of torture  
 >>makes a difference to them?  Maybe to civilized people, not fanatics. 

 >  
 >   
 >  
 >Americans apply their own standards to their own behavior.  Why would  
 >we start to apply their standards to our behavior?  That doesn't  
 >really make sense, any more than that they would apply our standards  
 >to their behavior.   
 >  
  
 fleeb - aren't you doing the same thing though when you talk about how our
POW's will be treated by these Muslim fanatics? 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838317</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:47:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838317@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >  
 >Returning to that thread, we are now seeing the result of Republicans  
 >cutting taxes for the rich, conducting two constitutionally illegal  
 >wars simultaneously, without budgeting costs and off-shoring of  
 >jobs.  Are those the programs you and the other guy want to return  
 >to?  
 >  
  
 How are the wars Constitutionally illegal?  Or are you going to say that
Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Lebannon, Libya, and the first Iraq war were too?

  
 Guess what, Congress voted to fund all of the above.  No, there may not have
been a declaration of war, but funding the damn things is tantamount to the
same. 
  
 And, since when did the government offshore jobs? 
  
 American companies have been offshoring for decades.  Why?  Unionization,
bad environmental laws, and a hostile tax code. 
  
 Make America a place where companies WANT to do business, and that will stop.

  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838312</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:41:11 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838312@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >  
 >What I do personally is not in the name of our nation.  That  
 >extrapolation doesn't hold water.  
 >  
  
 No, what you do personally may save one life.  What is done in the name of
the nation may save thousands or more. 
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838311</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:40:21 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838311@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >Perhaps you should research the subject more before offering an  
 >uneducated opinion.  As before you speak in absolutes, "proof".   
 >One must look at the evidence and studies by experts as to validity  
 >of torture-derived testimony.   
 >  
  
 I've looked many times.  Neither side can provide statisics to prove their
point.  You're guilty of the exact same thing, just spouting "it doesn't work".
 And the works you've cited are no better. 
  
 Show me the science, and then maybe we can agree.  Otherwise, we're both
stating opinions, and we disagree.   
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838310</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:38:23 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838310@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[ >  
 >Republicans are evil, Democrats are spineless, inept but well  
 >meaning.  Look at the unemployment benefit extention debate now  
 >going on.  Republicans have no difficulty letting families suffering  
 >from the depression lose their homes and go hungry but fight tooth  
 >and nail for tax cuts for the rich.  
 >  
  
 See - I knew you were a Democrat. 
  
 The tax cuts were for EVERYONE.  Not rich or poor - just Americans. 
  
 Democrats continue down the path of class warfare, and calling it tax cuts
for the rich is part of it. 
  
 Guess what, the rich are also the people who pay the majority of the taxes!
 So, if there are tax cuts, of course they get the largest dollar benefit.

  
 If you make $30,000 a year versus $300,000 a 10% tax cut is the same for
both people, but the one making $300,000 gets more dollar benefit.  So what?
 They pay more taxes, and they will use the
money in far different ways than the working stiff.   
  
 You may think that there is a dollar amount that is "enough" for someone,
but who are you to determine that?  Try living in California or New York,
and then hear the government call you rich, when the cost of living is so
high. 
  
]]></description></item><item><link>http://uncensored.citadel.org/readfwd?go=Politics%20%26%20Propaganda?start_reading_at=2838284</link><pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 05:36:01 +0500</pubDate><title>Re:</title><guid isPermaLink="false">2838284@Uncensored</guid><description><![CDATA[<html><body>

<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Fri Jul 30 2010 08:52:20 PM EDT</span> <span>from   Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
<div class="message_content">
<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote><br />Written by the Republicans _prior_ to 9/11.  PNAC had both the war   <br />and Patriot Act planned in advance of even Bush's term.    <br /><br /> <br /><br />Yeah, traitorous Democrats signed off.  They submitted to threats   <br />and pressure from the White House and Republicans, do you not   <br />remember the context of only 6 years ago?  Hold-outs were lambasted   <br />as "unpatriotic" and not given time to read the thousand-plus pages   <br />being told that we are at war, hurry up so we can win!    <br /><br />What did we win?  A devestated economy, loss of Constitutional   <br />rights and assumption of guilt.   <br /><br /></blockquote>
<br />PNAC.  What a joke.  A one line mention of another Hiroshima type event, and that's all you have to go on.  <br /><br />Funny how you're quick to blame Bush for a devestated economy, yet you don't blame the Democrats for the last 4 years of their control of Congress, nor the unimaginable damage they've done since Obama took office.  <br /><br />You talk about ram rodding through 1000+ page legislation with the Patriot Act, yet, you make no mention of the wholesale takeover of 1/6th of the economy with the health care bill.  A bill that Pelosi told us they had to pass "so we could find out what was in it."  <br /><br />Please.....  <br /></div>
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<p>1- You cannot wave your paw and dismiss the genesis of events, players or special interests who precipitated today's catastrophes.</p>
<p>2- I do not consider the devestated economy funny in the slightest.</p>
<p>3-  "Quick" took years, I voted for Bush (I'm ashamed to say) in 2000.  Blame is placed on the deserved.</p>
<p>4- Democrats has a slim majority in 2007/8, insufficient to override the multiple faux-filibusters of Republicans.  Programs set in motion when Bush had Republican control could not be halted.  Even now Democrats are stymied by faux-filibusters.</p>
<p>5- The thread has been the assertion that this economy is "Osama's" fault, there was no need to speak about the health care bill.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Returning to that thread, we are now seeing the result of Republicans cutting taxes for the rich, conducting two constitutionally illegal wars simultaneously, without budgeting costs and off-shoring of jobs.  Are those the programs you and the other guy want to return to?</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Tue Jul 27 2010 11:20:25 PM EDT</span> <span>from   IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
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<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote>2- The national debt has not "quadrupled".  It went up from, I   <br />believe $1.1^12 to $1.3^12 from Bush's last budget to Obama's first.    <br /></blockquote>
<br />That's what's on the books at this very moment.  How, though, is Mr. Osama going to pay for the $4.3 TRILLION in unfunded mandates that he and his socialist buddies have enacted?   [source: <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB122480790550265061.html" target="webcit01">http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB122480790550265061.html</a>] <br /><br />We are experiencing the largest and scariest expansion of government in American history.  You can't just blame it on the last guy.  <br /><br />Obama's fiscal policy is an unmitigated failure.  All you have to do is compare him to the last guy who "inherited" a shitty economy: our old friend Ronald Reagan.  It took 17 months for Reaganomics to turn the economy around (8/1981 to 1/1983).  Guess where we are this very month?  It is now 17 months since Obama's plan was enacted.  Where are we now? <br />The economy is worse than it was before, unemployment is worse, and all he can think to do is continue to blame the last guy [source: <a href=
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<p>You are moving the goalpost.</p>
<p>If you want me to take you seriously then don't exaggerate.</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Fri Jul 30 2010 09:01:41 PM EDT</span> <span>from   Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored </span></div>
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<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">On the question of torture....  <br /><br />Are you a parent?  <br /><br />If so, let's imagine that your child has been taken by some pervert and an equally perverted accomplice.   <br /><br />The police catch the accomplice on a traffic violation, and discover your childs sweatshirt in the backseat of his car.  <br /><br />He refuses to answer as to the wearabouts of your child.  <br /><br />A kind and sympathetic policeman leaves you alone with one of the men who it looks like abducted your child.  <br /><br />Tell me, what do you do?  <br /></div>
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<p>What I do personally is not in the name of our nation.  That extrapolation doesn't hold water.</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sat Jul 31 2010 02:06:38 PM EDT</span> <span>from   Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
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<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY"><br />1) There isn't much statistical proof either way from what I can see.  Each side has arguments to support them, but little scientific evidence.</div>
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<p>Perhaps you should research the subject more before offering an uneducated opinion.  As before you speak in absolutes, "proof".  One must look at the evidence and studies by experts as to validity of torture-derived testimony.</p>
<p>Then there is the moral issue.  Cannibals still exist  in some parts of the world, should we adopt their ethos, or lack thereof, too?</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sat Jul 31 2010 08:43:33 AM EDT</span> <span>from   fleeb @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Fri Jul 30 2010 18:58:46 EDT</span> <span>from   Rob Miller @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Tue Jul 27 2010 08:05:23 PM EDT</span> <span>from   Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
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<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote><br />You seem to be under a misunderstanding, that I am a Democrat and   <br />Obama supporter.  I am neither, I am for truth, justice and the   <br />American Way.  Both gangs have nibbled at the Constitution but only   <br />the Republicans have wiped their collective asses with it.</blockquote>
Sorry - the Patriot Act isn't to blame on Republicans for the Patriot Act.... <br /><br /><a href="http://educate-yourself.org/cn/patriotact20012006senatevote.shtml" target="webcit01">http://educate-yourself.org/cn/patriotact20012006senatevote.shtml</a> <br /><br /></div>
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<p>Written by the Republicans _prior_ to 9/11.  PNAC had both the war and Patriot Act planned in advance of even Bush's term.</p>
<p>Yeah, traitorous Democrats signed off.  They submitted to threats and pressure from the White House and Republicans, do you not remember the context of only 6 years ago?  Hold-outs were lambasted as "unpatriotic" and not given time to read the thousand-plus pages being told that we are at war, hurry up so we can win!</p>
<p>What did we win?  A devestated economy, loss of Constitutional rights and assumption of guilt.</p>
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</blockquote>
<p>And yet, the Democrats continued to sign off on it when it came up for renewal... even when they had a majority in Congress, and even after literally years of time to give the thing a closer look.</p>
<p>No, the damned Democrats are as guilty as the Republicans, in my eyes, for this horrible piece of legislation.  Oh, how I wish we could remove every damned politician that has been active for the past 10-20 years and replace them with people who actually seem to care about this country instead of their party.</p>
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<p>Yes, Democrats are guilty too however it was Republicans who designed the invasion of Iraq, the malfeasance of Afghanistan (now *that* is Obama's at this point), the "Patriot Act" and torture.  Yes, they're both corrupt but this, neither, is a binary choice of "guilty" or "innocent".  There are degrees of guilt and on a scale the Republicans are head and shoulders above the Democrats.</p>
<p>Republicans are evil, Democrats are spineless, inept but well meaning.  Look at the unemployment benefit extention debate now going on.  Republicans have no difficulty letting families suffering from the depression lose their homes and go hungry but fight tooth and nail for tax cuts for the rich.</p>
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<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<div class="message_header"><span>Sat Jul 31 2010 14:06:38 EDT</span> <span>from   Ragnar Danneskjold @ Uncensored </span> <span class="message_subject">Subject: Re:</span></div>
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<div class="fmout-JUSTIFY">
<blockquote><br />Torture is unreliable (the victim will say anything, true or false,   <br />to avoid it), and exposes our soldiers to other dangers that could be   <br />avoided if we did not engage in torture (or, at the very least, if we   <br />didn't officially embrace it).  It has questionable merit, and   <br />serious moral consequences.</blockquote>
1) There isn't much statistical proof either way from what I can see.  Each side has arguments to support them, but little scientific evidence.</div>
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</blockquote>
<p>Yeah, it might be tricky getting scientific evidence on this topic.</p>
<p>But it's still morally repugnant.</p>
<blockquote>2) Muslims BEHEAD unbelievers.  They cut hands off of thiefs, and tongues out of liars.  You think that us applying a bit of torture makes a difference to them?  Maybe to civilized people, not fanatics.</blockquote>
<p>Americans apply their own standards to their own behavior.  Why would we start to apply their standards to our behavior?  That doesn't really make sense, any more than that they would apply our standards to their behavior.</p>
<p>Furthermore, I seem to recall the DoD had concerns about torture as it applies to our troops.  It just isn't an American value.  It's not defensible.  Unless, of course, the general public hasn't a problem with it... but I'm not sure that's true.</p>
<blockquote>3) I'd like for someone to HONESTLY answer my hypotheical question.</blockquote>
<p>Well, that's why I haven't answered it.  I'm am not, nor do I anticipate ever being in a position where I could answer that question without spouting complete bullshit.  I'm just not the sort of person who has children in his life.  I'm not likely to ever be a father.</p>
<p>I know that in emergency situations, I do not necessarily react as most people might expect.  I tend to become more calm, more focused... I go into problem-solving mode, and think about the emergency logically.  I don't react with rage or other emotions.  So I suspect I wouldn't torture under any circumstance, preferring instead to use psychological tricks to get at the truth.  I wouldn't get angry enough to scare the person, and I know that.</p>
<p>But, again, I can't honestly say.  I can only guess.</p>
<blockquote>4) As brain scans and lie detectors get better - torture may actually become MORE effective....  Especially on people who aren't trained to handle it. <br /></blockquote>
<p>Still doesn't really address the moral issue, and the concern about how it could impact soldiers in a POW situation.</p>
<p>In a nutshell, I just don't think it's American to torture people.  It has never been espoused to me as an American value in any way, shape, or form.  In fact, Americans seemed to pride themselves during the world wars for their restraint, and downright congenial treatment of prisoners of war.</p>
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 >Torture is unreliable (the victim will say anything, true or false,  
 >to avoid it), and exposes our soldiers to other dangers that could be  
 >avoided if we did not engage in torture (or, at the very least, if we  
 >didn't officially embrace it).  It has questionable merit, and  
 >serious moral consequences.  
 >  
  
 1) There isn't much statistical proof either way from what I can see.  Each
side has arguments to support them, but little scientific evidence. 
  
 2) Muslims BEHEAD unbelievers.  They cut hands off of thiefs, and tongues
out of liars.  You think that us applying a bit of torture makes a difference
to them?  Maybe to civilized people, not fanatics. 
  
 3) I'd l